/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, I found out Tactical Scorpion is even worse than RMA. Anon wanted a bump, other anon did a bump and went medieval. Chinese TQs suck and Omniprotex HG2 is based.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.165
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat (M855A1, no M80 <44mm BFD):
Budget: Hesco T212 or L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Expired Hesco 3611C, surp SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Used Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA** or LTC 28791** or Hesco SC3812
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995) or used Cercom CER-SOPS**^
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G or Gilliam 1023
Budget: Hesco 4403* (bare minimum)
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* (+ Level III) or surp ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J preferable, adds M995 / 3x M2AP vs 1x)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 (fast M2AP, $300/set used)
Budget-Tungsten: Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)

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got an lv120, how to add side plates and cummerbund soft armor at the same time?

i know they sell those plate bags that integrate with their proprietary soft armor but dont wanna buy them as the soft armor is too small.
i alredy have ferro 3ac, ideally in the future id like to buy l4 performance soft armor but its expensive.
i got ferro velcro adapters for the inner cummerbund so i can attach the 3ac but then i cant get side plates, maybe with crye avs side plate pouches i can get them on the outer side and molle pouches onto them

>>65159919
Looks good.

>>65159919
just looked it up and the avs pouches aint molle but avs cummerbund type attachment which is too narrow to fit on the lv120 cummerbund

>>65159608
>Adept armor has the best armor on the market

>doubt

>>65160166
>fight! fight! fight!

>>65160181
All their plates are nominally sized, they use cheap UHMWPE so the BFD is damn close to the NIJ limit, and in ten years they have nuffin certified!

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>>65160192
Counterpoints: 9.8x11.8" or whatever is nuffin compared to the shenanigans that Highcoom and other companies pull, where some of the plates are literally 9x11" or not far from it.
BFD vs. Swiss P AP is like 30mm on the first shot. The Archon is at something like 25mm vs. M2AP. Even the .50 BMG AP that the Colossus Heavy was hit with produced BFD that looked basically survivable and modest under the circumstances.
The Archon is an objectively better plate than anything in the Hesco or Highcoom catalog. Tencate and LTC are spared because they apparently have super-secret catalogs that normies can never see, lol.
Nobody has 0101.07 certs yet, so we'll see about that. The NIJ have been honeydicking the .07 release since literally 2019.

>>65159919
Can you simply swap the cummerbund out for a different one?

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>>65160258
>Counterpoints: 9.8x11.8" or whatever is nuffin
9.8x11.8 is understating the problem for the Colossus, but is right for the Archon. The Colossus 10x12 is 9.75x11.5, which if you do the math means the 6.638lb Adept Colossus WOULD REALLY be 7.1lb if it were honestly sized. It's half an inch short and down a quarter inch in width, so that is substantial coverage loss. Plates are already limited in coverage.
>compared to the shenanigans that Highcoom and other companies pull, where some of the plates are literally 9x11" or not far from it.
If you don't put your foot down with 9.75x11.5 then the next 10x12 plate will be 9x11 as Highcom is doing, or they'll do bottom corner cuts too like RMA, LAPG, TacScorp, etc.
People saying the Colossus is weight-competitive to the Hesco 4601 are smoking crack. Once you correct Adept's sizing, there is a 0.7lb difference between the 4601 and Colossus. That's more than the difference between an ESAPI and XSAPI. (5.45lb vs 6lb)
>BFD vs. Swiss P AP is like 30mm on the first shot.
and an N/A (>44mm) on shot #3 plus a 43.6mm on shot #4 - WITHOUT conditioning. Mind you this is with generous shot spacing too.
>The Archon is at something like 25mm vs. M2AP
Without conditioning and it was originally M993 rated before they walked that back, and it's also nominally sized at 9.8x11.8. Size corrected it's 6lb flat, and lacks the III/IV dual rating of the Hesco 4601. $900/set for the Hesco, $1,160/set for the Adept. Hesco's cheaper and NIJ cert, plus better versus lesser threats multi-hit.
>Colossus Heavy
Prototype never sold commercially.
>The Archon is an objectively better plate than anything in the Hesco
See above. 4601 is overall a more proven plate, especially since the Archon relies on "tricking" people who still think tungsten 5.56 / 5.45 are above ALL level IV when it's really just soft Alumina or most B4C.
>Nobody has 0101.07 certs yet
Highcoom has the 3S14M, 3S21M, and 3S15M certified but the CPL is still private.

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>>65160258
>Tencate and LTC are spared because they apparently have super-secret catalogs that normies can never see, lol.
A lot of this is that Adept, much like most Chinese companies totally coincidentally, is piss afraid to touch Boron Carbide. They have no answer for the VelSys PBZSA, VelSys TSA, LTC 28570, or even a plate like Ceradyne's new GEN-IV ESAPI - which is a pound lighter than the Archon, has 3x M2AP / M995 standalone protection, and the only catch is that BFD max is 62mm vs 44mm.

Adept had the N1 4.7lb doped boron carbide Level IV, which absolutely wrecks the Archon on specs, like six years ago but it turned out vaporware. They then (allegedly) had a 4.5lb Level IV using B4C-TiN around 2023-2024 which again turned out vaporware. Besides the fact Shandong Yasai is the likely source of Adept's TiB2-SiC, Adept also shares China's inability to successfully commercialize boron carbide plates outside of a couple very mediocre examples from LiTai / Masada and a cheat-ringed prototype from Militech. Their TiB2-SiC puts out very mediocre performance with the Gilliam 9969 and Bain's new DragonSkin 2.5, so I'm thinking it's a meme lately and only has marginal advantages versus typical SiC as used by other armor companies.

>>65160323
>BFD vs. Swiss P AP is like 30mm on the first shot.
> and an N/A (>44mm) on shot #3 plus a 43.6mm on shot #4 - WITHOUT conditioning. Mind you this is with generous shot spacing too.
From what I've heard the plates are exactly 25x30cm and the Archon and Colossus are the same size. The lab might have rounded up/rounded down on the report. Anyway Hesco literally don't have a plate that'll stop ONE shot of Swiss P AP (or M993) at any BFD limit, and the 4800 dies to M2AP at 2910 fps, lol. The fact that the Colossus is within spitting distance of the 4600's weight is pretty damn good desu
> Highcoom has the 3S14M, 3S21M, and 3S15M certified but the CPL is still private.
Did they post about it anywhere? I wonder when the fuck the CPL is gonna be live. What's the current over-under? October? November?

>>65160339
Could be secret catalog or behind-the-counter stuff like a lot of other companies do. I don't think there's much of a consumer market for very expensive plates.

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>>65160343
>From what I've heard the plates are exactly 25x30cm and the Archon and Colossus are the same size.
I'm deferring to the lab reports on this one, 9.75x11.5 was the size of the Adept Colossus Energetic tested on 12/10/24. Pic rel shows 9.5x11.5 and the plate is somewhat lighter too, so the areal density is consistent and that means the sizing in both reports is accurate. If you correct sizing for both reports you get 7.1lb.
>Anyway Hesco literally don't have a plate that'll stop ONE shot of Swiss P AP (or M993) at any BFD limit
Take the 4601 and beef it up to just over 7lb, which seems to be the magic number lately for serious VPAM PM-12 plates that do 3x Swiss P at sub-25mm.
They don't do this because there isn't a market for this in the US. Swiss P is still niche. M993 is badly outdated versus new tungsten like 7N37 and nobody knows how well M1158 performs.
>and the 4800 dies to M2AP at 2910 fps, lol
The N1 apparently doesn't physically exist, so it won't stop M2AP at a hundred fps.
>The fact that the Colossus is within spitting distance of the 4600's weight is pretty damn good
0.7lb isn't within spitting distance. More than the difference between an ESAPI and XSAPI. Take the 4601 and beef it up by 0.7lb (more strike face, less backer), and it'll stop Swiss P AP very consistently.
>Did they post about it anywhere? I wonder when the fuck the CPL is gonna be live. What's the current over-under? October? November?
There was an article on bodyarmornews a few months back. Plan for the CPL, I've heard, is early 2027 and then run both 0101.06, with continued FITs but no new submissions, and 0101.07 with FITs and submissions until 2030.

>>65160270
you could use an spc cummerbund but then its not tube compaitble and you gotta buy adapters and fuck off i dont wanna change the cummer, its a good pc i like it overall just lacks a pouch for side plates that plays well with it for now
i found the pig molle pouch, that would fit my bill but its out of stock and i think not produced anymore.

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>>65160351
A secret catalog out of this nondescript warehouse which is Adept's actual business address would certainly be something.
Adept is a small operation, their contact us page used to have a phone and address but is now just an email.

It COULD be secret catalog, but then Hesco with 75 employees probably has a secret catalog too, wouldn't they?
>I don't think there's much of a consumer market for very expensive plates.
Adept doesn't have any known professional users. Their plates have yet to see use even in Ukraine, judging by the lack of press releases or other indicia, even though the Archon should be perfect given Ukraine has no answer for 7.62x54R 7N26 (steel-core, improved AP) even with DSTU-6+ plates good for 7N39. A strong, 7N39-rated Level IV would suit that perfectly.

>>65160323
>The Colossus 10x12 is 9.75x11.5,
Does this just allow it to fit in standard sizr carrier pockets, without specialty thicc carriers?

>>65160372
>Adept is a small operation, their contact us page used to have a phone and address but is now just an email.
So just email them for the secret catalog. Knowing there is one, make it not a secret.

>>65160374
No, it's deliberately done, as it is with RMA and Highcom and other guys, to make the plate lighter on paper. Unless carriers are designed specifically for thin plates, you only need specialty thick fucker carriers at the 1.4" thickness mark, which is where you see .50 cal plates like the Colossus Heavy.

>>65160380
Aye aye, gonna email them right now and ask for what happened to the N1.

>>65160372
>It COULD be secret catalog, but then Hesco with 75 employees probably has a secret catalog too, wouldn't they?
I remember when people emailed Hesco about their secret plates and the Hesco guy was like huh?

>>65160360
>There was an article on bodyarmornews a few months back. Plan for the CPL, I've heard, is early 2027 and then run both 0101.06, with continued FITs but no new submissions, and 0101.07 with FITs and submissions until 2030.
2027? Weren't people here saying that it would be out by this Summer?
Budget cuts at the NIJ or what?

>>65160387
It always helps to come off hostile and mention the CIA, cell towers killing honey bees and lay lines creating vortex nodes. People usually agree with me and tell me what I want to hear.

>>65160397
That was me, I spoke with the Zach Ball guy there about the Hesco 4520. He spent more time dodging than actually answering questions, IMO, so I don't think he was being fully transparent.

Armor companies have secret back catalogs because professional clients don't like it if their armor providers tell randos about their plate specs. If you know the specs you can figure out what's necessary to pierce. We aren't supposed to know about the VelSys TSA or LTC 28570, but because we do and we know the numbers, we know 7.62x54R 7N26 will possibly pierce and M2AP likely will at NIJ spec. M995 is sketchy and M993 is right out. If we know, bad actors know. That's why secret back catalogs exist.

>>65160397
>the Hesco guy was like huh?
Oh, yeah, right! He would say that wouldn't he?

>>65160426
>That was me, I spoke with the Zach Ball guy there about the Hesco 4520. He spent more time dodging than actually answering questions, IMO, so I don't think he was being fully transparent.
lol, it seemed like you literally knew more about the plates than he did. Seemed to me like it's ancient discontinued lore and he was genuinely clueless.

>>65160419
They're deliberately stalling because the NIJ doesn't want to release a CPL with barely any options. Many PDs' insurers mandate they use NIJ certified armor and would likely prematurely mandate a switch to 0101.07, which as of right now means everybody who wants plates MUST roll highcoom. Bad idea. Wait for Hesco, Integris, LTC and other guys to cert their 0101.07 stuff.

>>65160435
>Many PDs' insurers mandate they use NIJ certified armor and would likely prematurely mandate a switch to 0101.07, which as of right now means everybody who wants plates MUST roll highcoom
Hot damn that would be the funniest thing ever.
The NIJ has the opportunity to do the funniest thing right now.

>>65160445
>brb gonna put a grand into highcom's penny stock and make 1000x gains when the half-ass current 0101.07 cpl drops
>>65160430
Well it's possible a basic customer rep isn't privy to secret XSAPI (allegedly) plates made for an FBI contract back when the XSAPI rating was all spooky and confidential. Also the 4520 apparently lost to the LTC 28601 or some unknown successor to the 28601 back in 2014 or so.
The guy who ran Hesco back when the 4520 was a thing, Mr. Reed, is retired and I couldn't find contact info for him anywhere.
>>65160428
I should have gotten all schizo and asked about the SC3812, WHICH Adept also doesn't have an answer for, but Protech sure does!

>>65160475
> lost to LTC back in 2014
It's over.
The defeated male leaves.
>should have gotten all schizo and asked about the SC3812
What's that?

>>65160493
Contrary to Apex and Hoplite, the LTC 28601 XSAPI is actually not state of the art or standalone! It's been around since 2009!
>DOM: 2009-2010.
https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/10-x12-level-iv-ltc-28601-xsapi-ballistic-armor-plate?
Since LTC was cool with them selling it to civilians, along with the known outdated 28590 and 28791, that means the 28601 has been replaced (just like those two) several times over!
My theory is that since random Chinese and Israeli firms have commercialized doped boron carbide like B4C-TiB2, the big American companies have too. This enables roughly one pound weight reductions, with similar or better performance, versus SiC-TiB2 but will be costly. In other words, they are now about where Ceradyne was in 2008.
>SC3812
3.8lb SAPI M standalone rated for M855A1 or 7.62x51mm M80, 3x. Expensive as fuck credentials-required RF2+ above the 3811.
https://www.tac11.com/shop/fxr-sc3812-nij-level-rf2-e-1687

Any recommendations for good MP5 chest rigs? Hard mode: an affordable but still good one in Rhodesian brushstroke or a similarly edgy pattern

>>65160532
>SC3812
Is it any better than the VelSys PBZ-SA from ten years ago? I'm not so sure.

>>65160597
They're sidegrades. The PBZSA is much thinner, but only 2x BZ API or like 1-2x M80 and the spacing is wide at milspec 4" or so. The SC3812 is not rated for BZ API, but is still rated for A1 and has better 3x multi-hit at NIJ minimum 51mm since it's RF2 and not a SOCOM TSA/LTO. The 3812 is lighter too, at 3.8lb SAPI M versus 4.15lb.
The Protech Hardwire 8000 DT306C is 4lb 10x12 or 4.2lb SAPI M, rated for full 6x M80 or 6x M855A1, plus harder .06 drop test versus .07 for the 3812. Still no BZ API.

>>65158988
Kinda weird they dont have their other panels listed then since the test report is from 2024.
>>65158970
Well they did put their "HG2+" through a modified 010.07 test so I don't think it's a question of money. Anyways back to the guide. We like the Highcom soft armor right? We can put down militech for the made in china entry. Tests alright on youtube but no certs and you never know, but hey the price is right.
>Arsenal of excellent options on paper, but they're either not performing or they just aren't getting to the troops.
That's everything Russian in a nutshell.

>>65160623
I feel like BZ API is tougher than M855A1 at 3150 fps. Honestly if you're going to go to a 1" thickness and you need something that stops M855A1, you could get that Militech that tanks 20 hits, lol

>>65160628
> We like the Highcom soft armor right?
It totally sucks compared to the credentials-only stuff, but it's okay if you're a poorfag and credentialsfag.

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>>65159854
Checked the pastebin, is Slickster still the go to for scaling slicks?

>>65160630
>I feel like BZ API is tougher than M855A1
Wasn't there an RMA plate that advertised M855A1 + API-BZ, but then they discovered that it doesn't reliably stop API-BZ, so they memoryholed it? It was something like that, wasn't it? I don't remember the details.

>>65160630
BZ API needs more ceramic since it has a larger core. If your backer is shitty though, like the Hesco L210's fiberglass, you can stop BZ but lose to M855A1.
>Militech
Small cheat ring, but that's the advantage of a ceramic tile array.
>>65160670
The ESRT, but Buff ran it against Romanian BZ API or something which is a little more stout than Ruskie BZ API. RMA made him pull the vid and retest.

>>65160631
Well yeah, we're gonna have Safariland and such in there too.

>>65160628
Highcum's soft armor is solid. NIJ and FBI compliant. That's as dead nuts as you're gonna get.

>>65160751
> dead nuts
lmao.
Well, yeah, it's ye olde Kevlar "KM1" construction from 1982. So it weighs a ton compared to more modern alternatives, but it's reasonably thin and it will stop contact shots and shit like that.

>>65160751
>Highcum's soft armor is solid
What is the best they got under $800?

>>65160757
The contact shots in FBI protocol give PE stuff a hard time since UHMWPE is often temp sensitive.
Should be an NIJ requirement, IMO.
>>65160760
A set or per panel?

>>65160757
>dead nuts
For the record I won the 4403 debate.

>>65160780
Panel and set pricing, if that's not inconvenient. I see softies as the everyday, out and about answer. And choices are good.

>>65160789
Care to remind me what the fuck that was about?

>>65160806
Probably about rejection and disqualification, either personal, romantic or professional.

>>65160806
Buffman tested the 4403 post double drop. It failed twice against M2AP at 2,930ft/s or so but the same plate handled 2,910ft/s fine on the third hit.
I said it was fine because those shots were outside of NIJ spec. Neetmaster argued that means Hesco is shit even though it technically outperformed NIJ spec by a lot, since it stopped M2AP after two prior penetrating hits when NIJ spec is just one hit of M2AP at or below 2,910 but above 2,850. We debated for two fucking threads and 300 posts it was ridiculous. Autismdammerung.
>>65160802
Might be tricky. SA3920 is too pricey I think, but that's a good panel.

>>65160812
The Hesco Sex Life.

>>65160815
> technically outperformed NIJ spec by a lot
lmaooooo
Failing on the first and second shot make it a JOKE. It didn't outperform shit. A wish.com plate would probably do better unironically.

>>65160825
It does get complicated. At least in New York you have 'Friends' and 'Sex in the City'. It must be so great to live there. I can never understand why people visit my town for vacations, if it's so great where they live? I vacation in my town on the daily and love it! Complicated.

>>65160829
The shots were outside of NIJ spec. When Hesco says max velocity is 2,910ft/s, and they do, it is not reasonable to expect it to stop M2AP at 2,930 especially when it's the lightest plate in its class and everybody knows the backer is fiberglass, lol. It cannot be expected to be a high headroom plate like the aramid backed Protech 2230.

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Wife found the BARS gorka in the mail and got extremely mad at me for spending all the money I've been spending on kit when I could instead have spent it on neutering her bunny

>>65160833
> Defeated by an extra 20 feet per second
Literally pathetic. How much confidence do you have that it will always work at 2910 fps? My vote? Zero.

>>65160835
your wife can fuck off. Embrace tbe dadbitterbatter /bag/ trap lyfe.

>>65160815
>SA3920 is too pricey I think, but that's a good panel
>$1170
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/product-page/highcom-sa3920-ultra-concealable-level-iiia-soft-armor-vest-0-19-thin?
Super thin.

>>65160833
>>65160839
By the way, that extra 20 fps is a less than 1% discrepancy. 2910 is 99.31% of 2930. What are their manufacturing tolerances on the plate? If it's like plus minus 5%, the 4403 is btfo.

>>65160323
So less weight difference than what RMA sends buffman?
Was the 993 claim ever from their page or official source, or just those two prerelease third-party articles?

Adept might be a bit overated, I'll concede, since they're probably selling Chinese ceramics, but I have to at least give them props for bringing beyond lv4 to civilian markets.
>>65160339
The gen3 ESAPIs already have dubious BFD, and were released only a few years ago, yet apparently they have new ones about to come out that are significantly lighter and standalone? I will bet against them delivering that. (-1lb standalone same threat)

>>65160374
Fits in a medium 6094.

>>65160844
>$1170
>small
Tricked me, still LG/×$1250.

>>65160835
>neutering her bunny
Ask me how many bunnies I have neutered with a simple hatchet?

>>65160839
A lot of 0101.04 plates will lose by that since the max velocity for them is only 2,880ft/s, not 2,910ft/s like 0101.06.
>How much confidence do you have that it will always work at 2910 fps?
It's certified, which those wish plates sure aren't, and they'll flop on the drop test. Call me when the 4403 fails a FIT.

>>65160859
>Call me when the 4403 fails a FIT.
What is "FIT"?

>>65160857
How many bunnies have you neutered with a simple hatchet?

>>65160848
Yes, Hesco with great precision got it to stop M2AP consistently at 2,910 but not 2,930. It's a result of backer thickness.
>>65160854
Jake Ganor wrote the article in which that was mentioned, IIRC, and it was consistently. Where's the super Archon that pulls that off?
>bringing beyond lv4 to civilian markets.
Gilliam says hi. 8002 is half the price of the Colossussy.
>yet apparently they have new ones about to come out that are significantly lighter and standalone?
Well it's a Ceradyne and they're known for pulling wizard shit back in the day.

>>65160880
Well over 100+. Neutered permanently.

>>65160864
Follow-up Inspection and Testing. Every 1 year (2 years for ISO cert companies) NIJ shows up and randomly collects samples for follow up batch testing.

>>65160881
> Yes, Hesco with great precision got it to stop M2AP consistently at 2,910 but not 2,930. It's a result of backer thickness.
Three shots isn't "consistently," and two failures out of three shots is a laughably terrible performance. If this were any other company you'd "shitlist" them permanently and don't pretend otherwise.
> Gilliam says hi. 8002 is half the price of the Colossussy.
Cringe take. The Colossus was released in 2021 or 2022.

>>65160888
>recert
Got it.

>>65160864
>Call me when the 4403 fails a FIT.
I'd call that confidence misplaced. There's a reason it's the 4403 and not the 4400, 4401, or 4402. lol, they have learned nothing.

>>65160900
>consistently
Stopped M2AP at 2,910 after the strike face and backer got fucked up by two other M2AP. Hesco only rates it for one with a MAX of 2,910. It outperformed requirements.
>If this were any other company you'd "shitlist" them permanently and don't pretend otherwise.
It has drop protection, no cheat ring, no FIT failure, and no sizing shenanigans. No reason to shitlist.
>Cringe take. The Colossus was released in 2021 or 2022.
Colossus needs an update then!

>>65160921
4401 left the CPL in good standing, along with the multi curve 4400. 4402 was an unreleased prototype.

>>65160923
Even if everything you're saying is true, and I disagree on most of your points, it's built with literally zero margin of safety vs. the spec. You can't deny this. Now add manufacturing tolerances into the mix. Things could get ugly. It doesn't seem like a good or trustworthy design; it seems like a wish.com design, frankly.
And failing on the first shot is always a very bad and ugly sign.
> no FIT failure
Yet. No FIT failure yet. Has it even had time to be FIT tested, after the last models crashed out?

>>65160881
And when did Gilliam spin up shop? Has a single person here actually bought one of his plates? A few points for not hiding the Chinese ceramic, but I'll watch for tests.

Ceradyne is a dead man walking. All the new ESAPIs are tencate or BAE. Between that and the horrible showing on the ihps., I really doubt they have a miracle like that in them. Probably a reduced threat plate.

>>65160937
> And when did Gilliam spin up shop?
Recently. A year or two ago IIRC. People only started talking about him here a few months ago.
> Has a single person here actually bought one of his plates?
Don't think so.
> Ceradyne is a dead man walking.
IIRC all of the old guard left a long time ago. Even if the new owners gave a shit, and it looks like they don't, it's not the company it used to be.

>>65160932
Most Level IV plates have no safety margin. M2AP isn't a reasonable threat. The idea is that it's a ceiling for all reasonable threats CONUS. Can you show a police involved shooting involving M2AP out of a .300 winmag? It's been 50 years, should be easy.
>Has it even had time to be FIT tested, after the last models crashed out?
Yeah, it was just up for a FIT like last year. Passed, evidentially.
>>65160937
Gilliam set up shop in 2020, going off the wayback machine, but he's been in the armor industry for longer.
>Ceradyne is a dead man walking. All the new ESAPIs are tencate or BAE.
You missed the memo. Those are GEN-III. Avon Ceradyne beat both for GEN-IV.
>Probably a reduced threat plate.
GEN-III reqs but standalone, same weight, that's it lol.
>>65160944
I think a lot of dudes held out with 3M rather than go to Avon. 3M still makes enriched boron carbide but for nuclear and industrial purposes.

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>>65160553
Ug Sleds drip9. No meme patterns though. Could make your own out of ikea bags.
>>65160640
Yeah, personally I like Defense Mech more.
Sorry your two post got buried by /armor general, I swear these autist make queer gear lame.

>>65160969
>Avon Ceradyne beat both for GEN-IV
You sure about that?
> Most Level IV plates have no safety margin.
Bullshit. Buffman tests a lot of plates overspec and almost none of them have ever failed on the first shots like that. There's a "basic Level IV" Militech plate that stopped M2AP at 2978 fps, many others.

>>65160969
>Can you show a police involved shooting involving M2AP out of a .300 winmag? It's been 50 years, should be easy.
I swear to fuck Imma just gonna buy $400 worth and never fucking use it!
https://armsunlimited.com/swiss-p-300-win-mag-armor-piercing-ammo-196-grain-tungsten-carbide-core/

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Alright taking suggestions for more entries. We can list the certified Omniprotex panel. I haven't had a chance to test my shield defense panel yet. They can also be questionable since they aren't NIJ, but good CS and well priced. What about Temu armor?

>>65161008
What's the areal density and thickness on the Militech panel? Add Safariland SX and some Point Blank panels.

>>65160995
Well the NSN was given last year, and it's a Ceradyne.
>buff stuff
Ah yes the guy where the RMA 1155 is a champ

>>65161021
> Ah yes the guy where the RMA 1155 is a champ
> b-but
> n-no not like this
lol at this deflection. It's over. The 4403 is trash.

>>65161012
>What's the areal density and thickness on the Militech panel?
lol you think they list that? I couldn't find it.
https://mili-tech.com/collections/armor-panels/products/militech%C2%AE-nij-iiia-0101-06-hg2-0101-07-balcs-spear-ciras-ballistic-soft-armor-pair-set

>>65161029
It's the lightest plate in its class and provides NIJ cert IV protection at an affordable rate. A fine plate.

>>65161038
> lightest plate in its class
What class is that? The fiberglass class?
"Fail on the first shot" club.

>>65161043
yeah, made in USA using american materials el cheapo certified IV.

>>65161043
>"Fail on the first shot" club.
The FOTFSC? Is there one?

>>65161049
Hesco 4403 inaugural member.
>>65161048
Being the lightest fiberglass plate is like being the smartest retard.

What slick vest is it in that picture someone posts here regularly with the neon yellow shoes

I think the vest is dark navy, you know the one

>>65161008
Shield Defense Solutions out of poland makes all kinds of gimmicky but cheap and supposedly real

Also protechs hg2+ up- armor panels are interesting

>>65161052
>Being the lightest fiberglass plate is like being the smartest retard.
So you admit that good!

>>65161052
I asked for a single shooting involving M2AP out of a .300 winmag. If it doesn't exist then this is a made up issue with no real world risk.

>>65161059
Fwiw I have some balcs panels from them, and tested the test panel provided, it performed at 3a levels

>>65161052
Inaugural member would be the 4SAS4 since it failed something it was ACTUALLY advertised to do, or maybe American Blast.

>>65161008
why list 68 but not hardwire 57?

Who are Iceplates actually for? The salesniggers insist the cooling feature is still worthwhile when I spend weeks at a time without access to ice or a freezer. I don't believe them. Sell it to me.

>>65161093
They provide temporary cooling and integrate into your PC. It's not worth it for weeks, it's like a few hours tops.
You bust them out so you don't heatcat for short term operations with heavy armor, or it's really steamy hot and muggy out.

>neetmaster searching frantically for a single example of a cop being engaged by M2AP, in 55 years, out of a .300 winmag so his 2,930ft/s fantasy in which the 4403 would actually get a cop killed isn't technically a fantasy
I'm waiting you Militech loving shizznit.

>talk to guy about armor
>he thinks M2 resistance means M2 browning machine gun
.50cal sapi plates when?

>>65161093
>Who are Iceplates actually for?
The teenager taking oders all summer long at the Chick-a-filet drive thru. Seriously, the company bought these for thier guys and girls.

>>65161140
Already a thing for decades. .50 cal plates are mostly limited to aircrews and stationary guards getting shot at by an Irishman with a fifty cal.

>>65161143
>Chick-a-filet
Now at Dutch Bros.
https://www.qoreperformance.com/collections/chick-fil-a-dutch-bros-drive-thru-qsr-collection?

Anyways, just a reminder to everybody the purpose of NIJ Level IV is to address all reasonable CONUS threats. If you stop M2AP at NIJ spec you've got surplus M2AP (.30-06) with headroom, B-32 API, M61 AP, M14 API, BZ API, M855A1, M80A1, all steel core 7.62x54R, so on and so forth.
If a Level IV plate shits the bed at 2,930 but works at NIJ max of 2,910, that's only a problem if you're dealing with a dude who's thought long and hard about how to pop armor, or emerging hybrid case threats, or tungsten core business, statistically none of which is remotely probable because Neetmaster hasn't come up with shit.
If you need cheap plates that handle emerging IV+ threats, hit up the Gilliam 8002. If you just need affordable IV, Hesco 4403.

Thoughts on Goruck?

>>65161199
lifestyle brand products resold for 700% markup

>>65161245
possibly better than hesco 4403

Wife just asked why I "keep cosplaying as a soldier" and I didn't really have an answer

>>65161249
ask her why she cosplays as an annoying bitch

>>65161253
She won't really have an answer, now will she?
>tit for tat
>what's good for the goose is ood for the gander
>two sides of the same coin
>what is the sound of one hand clapping
>a sword cannot cut it's self
>the egg horn doesnt fall far from the hoak
>tell me lies, sweet little lies
>there is a log in the hole in the bottom of the sea

>>65161249
Cancel your marriage

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>>65161249

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>>65161077
Because I misread Safariland's trash over designed site and thought it was level II.
>>65161070
Good to know Anon. I wont be able to test mine for a few weeks. Local range are fudds and only let me shoot paper so I have to find time to shoot it innawoods.
>>65161059
>Also protechs hg2+ up- armor panels are interesting
Got a link to that Anon? I didn't think Safariland marketed their soft armor under Protech.

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Do we have a helmet inforaphic?

>>65161328
Two actually, see the emporium
>>65161323
Yeah they're weird about it. There's a Level II Hardwire-51, IIIA 68, then a higher end IIIA 57. There SHOULD be a II Hardwire-43 but I haven't seen mention of it.
>Got a link to that Anon? I didn't think Safariland marketed their soft armor under Protech.
Does he mean the IMPAC/HT / MT panels? They're neat but don't have the same protection as newer IIIA+ panels. They're holdout old school stuff from back when 7x8 and 5x7 trauma plates were still kinda common.

>>65160854
Forgot to mention this earlier. Can we circle back around to the fact RMA sent Buffman 10oz overweight plates and he was still adamant a few months ago that was just a variance and not them pulling fuck-fuck games? Tac Scorp did the same thing to him with their plates like the ASP.
The guy unfortunately stands by his affiliates entirely too much and won't risk his relationships with them. Hurts his objectivity when he whips out plates that barely represent their model numbers.

>>65161275
pretty much
why ask stupid questions if you don't want to be called a retard

>>65161385
I suggest divorce. Make like /bag/ legend dadbitterbatter and find a hot trap to fuck who wears 8x10 plates and respects the grind.

>>65161385
Opinion is the darkness between knowledge and ignorance.

>>65161390
Hesco 4403 is the darkness between buying expired Protech 2230s like a chad and the ignorance of highcum 4sus4

>>65161399
>Hesco 4403 is the darkness
Have you shot one?

>>65161416
nobody here has. We're just yelling about the results of a backyard test that the tester has refused to put on YT for months now.

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remember when this thread posted about gear rather than talking in circles about body armor that nobody can actually get tested or certified

>>65161443
Those are Finnish mag pouches, right? Weird, didn't hear shit about them for ages then I finally bought a pair and now I'm seeing them everywhere.

>>65161443
>about body armor that nobody can actually get tested or certified
>nobody can actually get tested or certified

>all of said armor was tested and/or certified
This is why we talk about armor so often.

>>65161323
https://www.catalystsurplus.com/product-page/7-x8-protech-impac-ht-deltoid

>>65161452
>all of said armor was tested and/or certified
call me when someone finally gets rated for the .07 list

>>65161448
I bought three when they dropped because I like Diz's tuck-tab closure. Up until he got hooked up with crossfire and designed their DZ rig the only guy offering it was one of his friends whose waitlist for orders is still indefinite.

Best friend is air force and works with JSOC and apparently gets issued Crye OCPs, said whenever he's due for new ones (he gets like two sets a year which he says is way more than he needs) he'll have then come sanitized and give them to me

It's like an $800 set this dude gets standard issue, wild

>>65161558
The air force either issues their people absolutely nothing or buys them shit them like they're CAG. There's no in between.

>>65160640
this Anon(>>65160985)is right. Defense Mechanisms' MEPC is better for scaling up; it's got stronger placard attachment points compared to those on Ferro Slickster. not to mention MEPC has a built-in front chest compartment for admin stuff and molle for ATAK mount. additionally, you can choose various cummerbunds and quick-release systems without the hideous silver circular tegris exposed outside.

>>65161478
>call me when someone finally gets rated for the .07 list
>the goalposts are changed
Highcom and other guys have entries on the CPL. You do realize .07 is for the most part a downgrade with plates, yes? Half multi hit, easier drop, only good things are M193 / M855 ratings but very easy ones at that for ceramics.
A lot of people will be sticking with .06, especially for IV vs RF3.

>>65161889
> A lot of people will be sticking with .06, especially for IV vs RF3.
lol wut?
The threat is the same, the velocity is the same, there's no multi-hit requirement, and the only difference is that they made the drop test just a little bit easier.

>>65161892
They switched from a double drop to a single drop. Four feet ten pound weight. It's literally half the drop test. We're already seeing .07 alumina-fiberglass plates like the new RMA 1155, which are actually lighter than the Hesco 4403, even when sizing is equalized. That's bad news given the 4403 has no headroom.
Also, you have to be buying some seriously deficient IVs these days, like the OLD RMA 1155, to have no multi hit. Even Highcom 4SAS4s and cheapo Longfris have passable MH.

Also, RF1 is significantly easier than III for ceramics and decent PE plates since 7.62x39 MSC and M193 aren't a problem for them. Three shots instead of six. Hesco 3803 is probably going to weigh 1.6lb or something.

>>65161897
>Highcom 4SAS4
Do these suck for the money ($212)?
What is better for the money ($212)?
And Shooter's cut or Swimmer's cut?

>>65161915
>Hesco 3803 is probably going to weigh 1.6lb or something.
This sounds good. But, there is no widely recognized HESCO product designated as the "3803".

>>65161961
They're an 0101.04 spec plate only rated up to M2AP at 2,880ft/s versus a modern plate's 2,910ft/s, and this does make a difference, plus they have no drop protection whatsoever and the 10x12 shooters is more like a 9x11 so you're down bad on coverage.
>Do these suck for the money ($212)?
Highcom had to discontinue these basically out of humiliation, yeah they suck. They were $172/set a year and a half ago, so you missed the boat and are looking at old stock dumped on a third tier retailer left holding the biggest bag in armor industry history since probably Zylon.
>What is better for the money ($212)?
Well they're better than steel plates as long as they aren't compromised by the mailman or have workmanship defects. Buy used Protech 2014Gs from Hudsongunner for about $220, knowing they're bare minimum IV spec per .06, or save up for Gilliam 1023s since they test well. Hesco 4403s are dependable AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TAKE THEM PAST LEVEL IV SPEC.
Best option is to track down a pair of expired Protech 2230s for about $350 so you can in fact go beyond IV spec. Better than the 4403 in every way.
>And Shooter's cut or Swimmer's cut?
With Highcom, NEVER buy shooters. It's a 9x11 with bottom corner cut outs. Swimmer's is more honest. SAPI is most dependable size wise.

>>65161966
Google search strikes again. It's a hypothetical reduction of the 1.95lb Hesco 3801 to the reduced multi hit RF1 spec. Frankly I think that's a highball weight and if they pushed it, could be 1.5lb. And yes, a tenth of a pound is significant in armor land. The difference between a Diamondback Tactical B-4 in 2003 and a Hesco 4800 in 2026 is about 0.4lb. Weight reductions are slooooow unless significant tech improvements are made, as were from GEN-III ESAPI to GEN-IV, for example, enabling an effective 0.6lb reduction. Major PE improvements from 2019 to 2026.

>>65161982
What specs do you have on the Gen-IV ESAPI?

>>65161991
NSN is 8470-01-727-1893 for the shooters cut large. Cost $945 a plate. Made by Avon Protection formerly Ceradyne. Five pounds flat, standalone 3x M2AP @ up to 2,880ft/s or 3x M995 at up to 3,400ft/s. BFD max is 62mm.
Same overall specs as VTP GEN-III ESAPI, but no soft armor required. The real prize is GEN-IV XSAPI at 5.5lb, 3x M993 @ up to 3,100ft/s. Standalone. That's still in development however and no contract has been awarded.

Also since the VTP family is interesting shit, I'll keep going. GEN-I LSAPI is 3.5lb, at least 1-2x BZ API or M855A1 or 7.62x51mm M80, standalone. Basically el cheapo version of LTC's GEN-6 TSA/LTO.
Then up next is the VTP ULWSAPI, 7.62x39 MSC only allegedly but about a pound. There's also, per a congressional hearing, a "VTP SAPI" probably between the LSAPI and ESAPI. My guess is B-32 API and no M995. Probably four pounds.

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Made another quickie infographic. Pic related shows Buffman's results table for his RMA 1155 test, from 9/2023, made in response to the NIJ suspension of 3/6/23. On the bottom is anon's 1155 test which took place four days after the NIJ suspension letter.

Buffman (affiliate code: buffman)'s first 1155 withstood 3x M2AP at NIJ spec with no problems. Anon's folded on the second hit of basic ass 7.62x51mm FMJ at 100 meters standoff. Buff's plates were 0.2lb heavier than advertised, but that's not a huge discrepancy like his 10oz difference RMA 1192 test and would not explain the ridiculous difference in performance between what he got and what a random customer got. I think anon just straight up got a defective plate and Buff got the extra QC. The lot is irrelevant if it's a ceramic problem and specific strike faces weren't QC checked. Alternative theory is that since RMA has made Buff pull videos in the past (ESRT test #1) and he works on a proceed / do-not-proceed basis with his affiliates (see Highcum 4SUS4 retest), they just did what Turtle did with him and ran plates until they got a good test.

In any case, as a compensated brand affiliate, he cannot be trusted as an absolute substitute to the NIJ or other forms of testing. Should probably keep that in mind with the soft armor infographic as a potential hedge against Omniprotex. His affiliate code with them is ArmorKing.

>>65162003
>GEN-I LSAPI is 3.5lb, at least 1-2x BZ API or M855A1
Has this been confirmed, or is it a guess? I heard that it was 3x 7.62x54mmR LPS or something like that, not M855A1 or BZ API.

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>>65162187
Educated guess based on the weight, since the actual rating is classified. It's consistent in both weight and cost with a thinned out TSA/LTO plate if you raise the BFD limit to 62mm. Take a PBZSA for example, that's 4.15lb SAPI M. Take 0.2lb off because you're switching to a shooter's cut, you're at 3.95lb. The remaining 0.45lb is easily explainable by the BFD limit going from 44mm to 62mm.
I disagree with the 3x 7.62x54mmR LPS estimate because neither the PBZSA or LTC 28791 are rated for it, so it's not considered a current threat at least in the military's analysis, plus, going off that, it sidegrades BZ API and you'd probably have to beef up the backer. UHMWPE at this level is expensive and the LSAPI is only $800/plate (bulk rate, concedly) so it can't be using anything too fancy. VTP ESAPI GEN-IV is $945 a plate.

>>65162194
Damn, so it's a slightly weakened PBZSA? That makes a lot of sense, actually. lol at the PBZSA still mogging most plates 15 years later.

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>>65162207
Yeah, it's basically a cheapo TSA/LTO. Plan is to buy 520,000 plates to equip the close combat force with armor that will immediately lose in the event of friendly fire against their M7s, which makes the backup cope justification for XSAPI, getting shot in the back by an M240 with M993, retarded.
>lol at the PBZSA still mogging most plates 15 years later.
Sorta-kinda. A lot of it "mogging" stems from the fact most of its competitors from the big names are also ten years old. The LTC 28791 paired with the LTC 28595, so it's the same age if not older. The Tencate CR-6450SA is a cheaper plate at $1.6k/set, same price as the LSAPI interestingly enough, versus $2.2k.
The newer GEN-6 and GEN-6B TSA/LTOs from LTC, which the LSAPI are likely derived from, very likely trash the PBZSA on specs since it's only GEN-5B.

Keep in mind LTC only sells plates to civilians which are several gens behind what they're selling to SOCOM. The expectation seems to be that any plates sold to civs are liable to be ITAR-violated and wind up in foreign hands, like the Taiwanese Auction House that sold exotic Ceradynes to east asian airsofters.

>>65162228
>like the Taiwanese Auction House that sold exotic Ceradynes to east asian airsofters.
Were these not mogged by the PBZSA?

>>65162255
>PBZSA
>Notice: All armor purchases must be accompanied by copies of credentials or by a Purchase Order on agency/command letterhead. Your order will not be shipped until we receive these. Please contact us with any questions.703-707-6280,info@velsyst.com
So "we" can't have?

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Any opinions or experiences with the Nocturn Talon monocular?

Did anyone pick up any of the Blauer tacvests that Kommadostore sold recently? I’m curious to know the difference between those and one of the more military-oriented setups

>>65162255
No, sidegrades. They had 92547s and 101314s at one point which provided multi-hit M2AP protection, milspec spacing / durability, at just over 5lb. M2AP at 2,880 will likely clear a PBZSA even at several hundred yards standoff. There is a huge power gap between BZ API / M855A1 and M2AP. M2AP functions as an effective "over-proxy" for all known Russian or Chinese 7.62x54mmR steel core threats with the possible exception of an improved 7N26.
Other old Ceradynes sidegrade the PBZSA pretty well. SOF ESAPI, for example, is a little heavier than the 101314 and needs IIIA soft armor, but stops 10x BZ API. The PBZSA only does two. MH3 CQB, about 5lb with soft armor, but stops 10x M995. The PBZSA can't handle M995 at regular velocity at all because it uses basic B4C, which performs poorly versus WC core threats.
>>65162265
You got $2.2k?
https://offbase.co/products/velocity-systems-7-62x39-api-bz-multi-hit-stand-alone-rifle-plate?

>>65162287
>You got $2.2k?
Yeah, but I want a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe in .300Wea Mag. Way more showy.

>>65162287
>You got $1.1k?
Maybe I'll get just 1. It's not like Imma runnin away and get shot inna beck!

>>65161889
>A lot of people will be sticking with .06, especially for IV vs RF3.
And I'm the goalpost shifting?

Until they make .07 official and start certifying plates again everything you autists are arguing about is based on anecdotal testing by people with a motive.

>>65162501
What goalposts am I shifting? The 0101.07 standard has issues, it's too easy, still allows deficient plates, and doesn't address modern requirements.
It makes sense to stay with IV over RF3, or III over RF1 or RF2 depending on requirements. NIJ is listening too much to the reduced weight at any cost crowd.
>Until they make .07 official and start certifying plates again everything you autists are arguing about is based on anecdotal testing by people with a motive.
Most of the plates that will be going on the 0101.07 CPL are just today's 0101.06 plates. The Hesco RF3-400 for example is just the 4403.
>>65162483
Front plate only didn't work well for Rangers in Mogadishu.
>>65162481
That'll probably blow through a PBZSA even without AP. It's only 0.52" thick and not a whole lot of backer.

>>65162526
>The 0101.07 standard has issues
And hasn't even been opened or finalized yet.
>it's too easy, still allows deficient plates
So does .06
>and doesn't address modern requirements
Neither does .06

You're arguing in favor of a fictional standard that does not exist anywhere except your own head.

>>65162549
It's been finalized as of 12/1/25 and Highcom already has models on the CPL as already discussed.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/equipment-and-technology/ballistic-resistance-body-armor-nij-standard-010107
>So does .06
But less so, because the drop test is more difficult.
>Neither does .06
And modern requirements show a double drop is superior, being part of what drove the adoption of 0101.06 over no-drop 0101.04 back in 2008
>You're arguing in favor of a fictional standard that does not exist anywhere except your own head.
Yeah it's called you don't solely trust the NIJ, a paid youtuber that folded like laundry for Chase Tactical, or lab reports by themselves, you use all available evidence to arrive at a good conclusion.

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>>65162560
>Highcom already has models on the CPL as already discussed.

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>>65162580
>Highcom already has models on the CPL as already discussed.

>>65162580
The 0101.07 CPL is not public as already discussed. NIJ is waiting until it's fleshed out before releasing so people don't make premature decisions cuz the selection will be shitty. I've been told the Colossus is supposed to be 0101.07 certified. Still got a bet riding from two years ago on that.
>In early 2024, the NIJ Compliance Testing Program stopped accepting new armor models for testing under the old version of the standard. Behind the scenes, the National Voluntary Laboratory Accreditation Program (NVLAP) will use NIJ Standard 0101.07 to accredit ballistics laboratories and, in spring 2024, the program began testing, evaluation, and certification of ballistic-resistant body armor to the updated standard. Law enforcement agencies should expect to see body armor certified by NIJ to the 0101.07 standard sometime in late 2024 or early 2025. (DEADLINE BLOWN)
0101.07 certification technically began in Spring 2024, so the process is slow. Keep in mind NIJ has been working on 0106.02, the new helmet standard addijg consistent BFD measurement methods, actual ratings higher than II / HG1, and a CPL for twenty years.

>>65162585
>RIP 4SAS12 and 4SAS15, we never knew ye aside from the former having a good M2AP v50. No idea what the fuck happened to the 4SAS15.

I'm getting tired of hiding every thread. /gq/ is officially dead.

fast fucking /bag/ thread, we're in shape for it to be a two day.

>>65162599
I've been telling you people that /bag/ absorbed /gq/, not the other way around. It appears, for better or worse, I was right.
I actually wanna talk about my FUCKING AMAZING NORINCO DRUM. Can we can the 0101.07 talk?

>>65162605
More details on the drum

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>>65162633
Yessir, I got it for $270. Norinco MDG3 pre-94, fits 120 rounds of 5.56. I just got it in today and haven't had a chance to shoot with it, but these have a reputation for being a "more reliable" drum mag, hence why I paid out the fucking nose for it but they normally go for $300-450 and have for decades. Loading it is very funky and the manual's engrish is terrible.
They're apparently a lot cheaper up in Canada ($80?) but are pinned to five rounds. Knowing the Chinese it's probably pretty easy to undo the cuck mod.

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>>65162605
/bag/ autism beats /gq/ autism because the controversy around armor specs will never end while tactical nylon has settled to a fairly consistent norm across the entire industry

Question: In your opinion, does this count as a chest rig?

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>>65162649
1890s german south african mounted infantry webbing.

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>>65162651
And for reference: This is how the chinese actually wore their type 56 rigs. The slang term they used for them literally translates to something like "belly bag."

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>>65162649
>/bag/ autism beats /gq/ autism because the controversy around armor specs will never end
You got that right. This shit is ETERNAL and has been going on since 1971.
>Question: In your opinion, does this count as a chest rig?
Absolutely, just as pic related is a platecarrier from the civil war. I don't understand these people that act like steel plates are only ever used by civilians. See? the Union and the traitors both used steel plates.

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>>65162649
> /bag/ autism beats /gq/ autism because the controversy around armor specs will never end while tactical nylon has settled to a fairly consistent norm across the entire industry
And yet companies like Spritussy and Ferro still release meme shit that's poorly designed. Tasmanian Tiger is still pure Airshit. Agilite still being shady af. Beez still making no sense. Helikon still retarded. I could go on. There's a lot of BS in nylon, maybe even more than in armor.
The best /gq/ thread of all time was still the Agilite one. Such a classic.
> does this count as a chest rig?
Yes, obviously. It's an early form of chest rig.

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>>65162667
Surely you also realize that /bag/ and /gq/ autism are aligned. Look at this shit from VelSys.
>we made the plates 20% larger
>with a shitty proprietary carrier
>that only takes our plates
>and the only plate we have for it you can't buy, fuck you civilian scum
>also it's all-PE and only stops 7.62x39 MSC because we needed to game a weight statistic so it's lighter than a 28 year old SAPI.

>>65160985
How is the Haley Micro rig in comparison to that one?

>>65162605
it's one autist who is doing it all. You can tell it's him because of his posting style. He treats these threads like his own personal blog.

>>65162667
>Yes, obviously. It's an early form of chest rig.
But does that mean the Germans invented chest rigs or does it not count because they seemingly never left Africa and there's no clear link to them influencing Warlord era China?

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>>65160339
>>65160351
>>65160372
I got word back from Adept about the Diamond Age N1. Anon in >351, congratulations, you are correct, it is a secret back-catalog Adept plate. You may pat yourself on the back.
It is now the Adept Emperor. I have the test report but I'll respect Adept here and not show it per the language on the bottom.

Anyways, it's 4.55lb in 10x12 multi-curve - actually 10x12 this time. Titanium-doped boron carbide, 1" thick, $1550 a plate so $3,100 a set. Standalone, stops M2AP at 2,913ft/s with 23mm BFD. No drop test, but I gotta be honest, these specs are phenomenal. They are shooting for a retail release as early as July. Again, $3,100 a set so it's priced to compete with the Hesco 4800. Unless it's down on drop protection it's a slam dunk against the 4800, especially since the doped B4C should put on a better show versus M995.

>>65162605
Fucking talk about it then bitch. Nobody is stopping you.

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>>65162685
>it's one autist who is doing it all
There's three. I am in fact one of those three and am the anon you were replying to, so I'm not sure what posting style you're referring to.

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>>65162713
I just did in >>65162646 bro.

>>65162663
>You got that right. This shit is ETERNAL and has been going on since 1971.
My VBA plates are dated 1969. And yesterday Taofledermaus put out a video testing prohibition era armor. And the tower of London has examples of breast plates that were tested against early firearms. Safe to say this has been going on for much longer.
>>65162649
I would call it LBE not strictly a chest rig. X harness is fine. H is better but X is simpler to make. The pouch arrangement looks pretty standard for late 19th century webbing. Leather is actually shit for pouches but the only alternative back then was canvas and leather is at least somewhat water proof. Both wear out fast under real combat conditions.
>>65162674
Velsys has been doing that for years. The rare titanium plates spergs thought Charlie might have been wearing are also a proprietary shape.

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>>65162739
Indeed. I highly recommend Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare by Bashford Dean if you haven't read it already. Neat shit from 1920 and prior.
https://www.metmuseum.org/met-publications/helmets-and-body-armor-in-modern-warfare
>Velsys has been doing that for years. The rare titanium plates spergs thought Charlie might have been wearing are also a proprietary shape.
Yes, the PULV. They make several plates in that cut. ULV-GEN1 was the steel PSTES, GEN2 the titanium PULV plates, and now GEN3 with the 1.5lb all-PE PXULV plates. There's also boron carbide ceramics based off the VS-PBZ and PBZSA, the spall coated BVEL metallic plate, and a very rare BZ API secret service version.
The problem is that the ULV cut makes sense for specific applications but the "Wraith" cut needs to overcome decades of hesitation regarding oversized plates, plus the weight penalties are ugly if you raise the rating. That Adept Emperor in >>65162706 would be about 5.5lb in the Wraith cut, so even with top-shelf $3,000 IVs you're adding a pound.

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>>65162739
>I would call it LBE not strictly a chest rig.

hot take: The only core difference between a chest rig and a belt rig is whether it's primarily fastened at the back or at the front.

>pic rel: 1930s/40s italian african colonial police rig

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>>65162750
>Indeed. I highly recommend Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare by Bashford Dean
I've read it and reference it often. Its a great work. Unfortunately we don't have a current day equivalent that's as comprehensive.
>The problem is that the ULV cut makes sense for specific applications but the "Wraith" cut needs to overcome decades of hesitation regarding oversized plates
And the hesitation is there for good reason. rifle plates just aren't thin and light enough to replicate the design of steel breast plates. They certainly tried with the VBA and some others like some of Tencate's LIBAs. But its just cumbersome.

>>65162859
There are chest rigs fastened at the front. Id say the main difference is to you wear it on your chest or on your hips. The old german one Anon posted is worn at the waist, so it can go either way really.

>>65162865
>Unfortunately we don't have a current day equivalent that's as comprehensive.
yeah, sux.
>others like some of Tencate's LIBAs
The thing with LIBA is that they never got around the pellet gap issue (M855 / A1 / M995 are narrow enough their cores can sneak between pellets and only face PE that they'll easily pierce) without adding a steel backup strike face or using interlocking pellets, both of which negate LIBA's areal density advantage.
Those "Super LIBA" 20-hit M993 plates from way back in the day are tragically the only known plates that can handle 7.62x51 M993 but will easily lose to fair hits of 5.56 M995.
>And the hesitation is there for good reason. rifle plates just aren't thin and light enough to replicate the design of steel breast plates.
Waiting on that Adept Emperor to drop. Reliable IV+ that weighs only 4.55lb? Yes please.

>>65162895
>Waiting on that Adept Emperor to drop. Reliable IV+ that weighs only 4.55lb? Yes please.
We'll see, still need them to subject themselves to NIJ FITs. And even then its still going to be a conventionally sized plate. We aren't getting rifle breast plates without a big leap in technology.

>>65162984
>still need them to subject themselves to NIJ FIT
Agreed. I'm the adept skeptic here and they've been a lot more transparent with their actual secret flagship plate than Hesco has with a twelve year old XSAPI, so I'm willing to give the IMPERATOR, REX a tentative thumbs up, but I want to see more indicia of reliability, including 0101.07 cert. If it gets that, then the no-cert Hesco 4800 aka RF3-800 is done and serves no further purpose in life.
>We aren't getting rifle breast plates without a big leap in technology.
Since the intel on the 4.5lb Adept Level IV was solid, it also stands to reason the sub-4lb M995 stopping RF2+ is also a thing. That could be more attractive for a higher coverage breastplate type plate, but really we'd want flexible.
Will have to see if this titanium doped B4C makes its way to Stealth like the SiC-TiB2 did. Gonna be high dollar though. AlMgB14-TiB2 is probably the ceramic we want.

So Adept is planning a lineup refresh, Emperor included, in the next few months or so. Given that, if you're in the market for 'spensive plates like PBZSAs I'd wait until those release, then evaluate.

>>65162706
>per the language on the bottom.
Then show the bottom language.

>>65162663
Die yankee scum!

>>65162605
>Can we can the 0101.07 talk?
NO! ALL ARMOR SHIT TALK, ALL THE TIME UNTIL MORAL IMPROVES!

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>>65163241
No problem. It's the customary language Adept has on all their test reports, but since this one isn't public and was given to me in good faith, I redacted all the bits not already disclosed in the email and prior stuff we already knew.

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>>65163255
Fine christ I'm gonna go find the intel on that M995 stopper so we can hypebeast the one plate to FINALLY MOG THE PBZSA.

AFTER FIFTEEN YEARS.

The Adept M995-stopping RF2+ has been in development since 2022 and uses the same sintered boron carbide-titanium nitride hybrid ceramic. It is about three pounds and "likely icw" per an insider anon in 2022. Assuming it needs good IIIA call it an extra pound, we're at 4lb. The PBZSA can't handle M995 but this allegedly can so that's a major difference. My guess it'll be closer to the EMPEROR price-wise than the Archon or Colossus, which means it's north of the PBZSA and probably comparable to the Hesco SC3812 price-wise, which it turbo-mogs because of M995.
If it's called the Malcador or the Sigilite I'm gonna kek.

>>65162874
Split front chest rigs still have the main closure in the back. It's not solid like a battle jacket/belt rig

>>65162874
>The old german one Anon posted is worn at the waist
So are type 56 rigs and their predecessors

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>>65163331
pic rel. They're worn down at the waist. Only reason they ride up so high is because AK mags are taller than stripper clips.

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>>65160258
>me when i see woman

>>65163262
>customary language
>The data and information contained within this report is the sole property of Adept Armor and may only be distributed as directed and approved by them directly.
Odd, my customary language is much more profane than that.

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>>65163338
If you've got real drip, they can cover your entire torso.
>>65163030
Yeah I'm thinking it's based.

>>65163422
Like anon said, we need to see more proof it's good. $3,100 is also the evaluation price to Euro militaries, so it might end up being more expensive than the 4800. Add 15%, you're at almost 3.6k. Most people can't swing that for plates, that's better spent on NV, so it'll bomb unless it gets contracts or it destroys the 4800, LTC 26310, and Protech 9812-R1 so completely it becomes the absolute go-to for lightweight IV.

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I ain't spending north of $2k for plates I'll never get shot wearing! Fuck that, I don't have taxpayer money. It's all FUN AND GAMES when it's a larp $K here or there, maybe $3-4K for nods. But fuck if I have some fuking exotic space penatrator bullets coming at me from behind a shitty dumpster! Fucking get real and peel the onion! Just don't be there!

>>65163502
It's all fun and games until XM1224 falls off the truck and fucks every known plate ever made. SOCUM's got that ron jeremy "long core" in their pants.

>>65163510
Are they hiding behind the dumpster doing meth behind CIrcle-K? No? Then not in my threat matrix. Stabbing weapons, slic8ng weapons, blunt instruments, shitty Glocks and High Points, maybe some fuck face with a Draco or AR and Eagle Ammunition, maybe Cleetus bought green tip and shoots from a from a 16" bbl and 20yrds. This is realistic. This is Jack wearing Hesco 4403s and not gaf.

>>65163502
Okay but frens don't let frens buy 4SAS4s or used 1155s on eBay.

>>65163524
>Are they hiding behind the dumpster doing meth behind CIrcle-K?
Yes actually. Why do you think they're selling their LTC 28570s on ebay?

Where the fuck are people getting shit like surplus ACHs or MICHs for >$150

Everyone says you can and I haven’t seen one

>>65163558
ebay and you either negotiate or wait for somebody selling who needs rent and/or drug money.

>>65163558
I haven't really seen those prices since 2020 or 2021. They're usually $300-400 these days, on average.

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>>65163558
>>65163591
I got a BA3A for under $90 like a year ago, reasonably decent "IIIA" helmet from Ceradyne, cop surplus. You can get similar quality Protech or Busch helmets for similar.
I'd take an ACH (or preferably an ECH) if offered a swap or a really good deal but I'm satisfied with what I got.

Unrelated, I just made another retarded decision and bought a Sunfire 10" 2,700W (on paper) subwoofer. Do I need the Adept Emperor front and back and sides to handle the homeowners association special response squad? I can't afford this shit man...

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>>65163605
Absolutely no way this is legit

>>65163546
I'd actually be interested in seeing if Highcom has leftover 4SAS4s they weren't able to dump on tactical edge. If they can be bulk-bought for $30-50 a plate they'd make for passable loaners. Stick some yoga mat in front of them and use a private courier for shipping.
The 1155 is just flat out schizophrenic with how it performs. Great on youtube but there's been two cases of it flopping to two .308 so far. Shouldn't happen with an 8.3 or 8.5lb plate. It literally shit the bed on a test a 1.95lb Hesco 3801 would easily pass three times over.
The corners cut to make an all-american plate <$100 continue to astound me.

>>65163605
That was a steal, man, seriously.
It looks like eBay has some good deals rn:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/406888978970
I think that $300 is a good price for a vg+ ACH, but there are definitely cheaper helmets out there.

>>65163610
Even I would snatch that deal, just to hide behind the dumpster at Circle-K.

>>65163610
Ace Link is a bunch of C / D-grade chinesium shitbaggers. Get out of there.

>>65163620
Yeah that’s what I was assuming, fuck all that, eBay it is

>>65163614
From what I heard, a bunch of large metro PDs surplused out their helmets. For a while you could buy BA3As for $80-100, usually with a kinda hinky removeable riot face shield. I wouldn't trust it to hold against a golf club or baseball bat but it'll help if you throw hands.
Get one of the boltless rail kits from ebay for $55-60, you're in the game for under $200.

Also, FYI, I was informed by Adept they "may" have a small number of SAPI S, M, and L Adept Emperors leftover from a "military contract" for sale. $1,500-1,650 a plate depending on size. If anyone wants the super amazing secret flagship plate they'll need to contact by email. Just letting you guys know.

>>65163614
This is a price I can work with, never had a helmet before though, I guess I’d just want to clean it off, attach some rails and maybe a helmet cover?

>>65163646
You're sized for a size large? Just double checking.
Otherwise, yeah, the price is fine. Rails and helmet cover, maybe look into switching out the pads for PGD or that lattice business.

>>65163664
Yeah, I mean in other brands large is what my head corresponds to so I’m assuming they won’t all be super different right

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>>65163669
Just to double check:
https://media.msanet.com/www/PDFs/MSAFrontLine/CatalogPDFs/ACH.pdf
>unrelated, checked buff's vid and ace rink's got some cheat ringing going on.

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Pic rel is a comparison of different digital NVs in some dude's basement. Imaging paying more than a thousand bucks to get 480p 1992 spice channel quality with the NVG90 Pro wtf is that.

Is there such a thing as an aftermarket shoulder strap assembly for the US large MOLLE ruck? Something more comfortable and less prone to loosening?

>>65163723
Yes, they come with better packs, available at REI.

>>65163723
What's coming loose?

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Voodoo tactical any good?

>>65163778
The little straps used to tighten the shoulder straps. Every 50 ish steps walking and 30 ish steps running I have to tighten them again.

>>65163852
Pics?

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>>65163858

https://www.ebay.com/itm/297329968621?_skw=busch+protective

What's the catch here

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>>65163872
1. Dumb question, I know, but is it assembled correctly?
2. Aside from that the only thing that would cause it is the either strap is worn too thin to hold or the buckle's teeth are worn out. Both highly unusual IME but either is an inexpensive fix.

The suspension on molle packs is very mediocre but with the way 1602 frames are you'd be better off getting a whole new frameset.

>>65163898
yes it's put together correctly, I think the strap is just worn out
I've had it for like 8 years and put it through a high volume of boring regular grunt shit, it didn't start loosening like this until a couple months ago though

>>65163905
If it's just the strap you could replace it with some 1" webbing or (if issued) attempt to DX it. Although if you do that they'll either "do right by you" by making your life worse with a MOLLE 4k or tell you to pound sand.

Wouldn't even have to sew anything desu. Cut webbing to whatever length and tie a bowline in one end. Reassemble. If the buckle is worn out you can find them on ebay if you look hard enough. https://www.ebay.com/itm/205628021925

>>65163891
It makes you look like dark helmet. Otherwise solid helmet and the vendor is good.
>>65163849
China. Longfri reseller. Not great but a touch better than Ace Link.

>>65163905
Or steal one off of someone's assault pack or something. Whatever model pack it is they all use pretty much the same lower strap and buckle.

what prices should someone pay for a soft armor vest? no intention of running plates and concealability isn't a factor. ive seen shitty rigs with plates included for under 400$ but soft armor vests going for the same price or higher.