>In a major move, Sweden will procure four Luleå-class frigates from France, based on Naval Group’s FDI. >The Swedish Navy’s first major surface warfare combatants in decades will feature a mix of Swedish and French weapons systems, including the ABM-capable Aster 30.>The Luleå-class frigate will be armed with Aster-30, CAMM-ER, RBS15, Torpedo47, Trackfire RWS and 57mm and 40mm Bofors automatic cannons.Cost is about €4bn in total.
>>65166839CoolHere's to hoping the frog will finally put some MdCN on it
SAAB bros... It's over...
>>65166839and France will buy radars and awacs from sweden.maybe ze germans could learn a few things from this european deal...
>>65166839>CAMM-ER Will it have the new multi-pack VLS? >57mm and 40mm Bofors automatic cannons. Why? It's dumb to have two medium ACs. I know they want to use domestic stuff, but the OTO 76 is the gold standard for middleweight ships for a reason.
>>65166890Saab will still get a consolation prize in form of component sales
>>65166906probably Sweden simply doesn't want to introduce a new gun. 57 is known and developed by Sweden. And if your goal is to shoot down flying lawn mowers - magazine depth and ROF of the 57mm might be preferable.
>>65166928I mean sure, but they already have the good ol' reliable 40. Why would they use another relatively closely performing gun?
>>65166839Lancet target practice))))))))))))))))))))
>>65166839It's true, we're secretly a french colony while the Danes are a german one and Norway is British
>>65166839>FDIbudget warship for a budget navy>ABM-capablelet's look at the radars. otherwise the Luleas will have to be tied in to NATO ABM radarsand how many Aster? the French Ronarchs have only 32 cells total>Cost is about €4bn in totalas expecteda billion €$£ is pretty standard for any NATO warship of decent capability nowadays>>65166861>MdCNwhat for? European mini-frigates don't have enough room to launch a relevant number of cruise missiles, unlike Burkes. and Sweden would prefer Gungnirs
>>65166839>Sweden will buy"Wallenberg and the USA ruleSweden"Published August 19, 2023 at 12.28ECONOMY. It is not elected Swedish politicians who have the ultimate power in Sweden, but the Wallenberg family and American decision-makers. This is stated by Christer Gardell, CEO of fund giant Cevian, in a revealing interview with Affärsvärlden.How is it that Sweden is running the same policies as usual regardless of what the people vote for?
>>65166861>Here's to hoping the frog will finally put some MdCN on it Probably not, the swedes will likely cheapen out, slap a couple Gungnir pods on it, and call it a day. I wonder what, if any, missile CIWS will it use. Both Mistral 3 and RBS 70 Bolide 2 are potential options.
>>65166839use case when the enemy can take it out with 500 cheap drones?
>>65166895German will sue both for unfair competition.
>>6516694140 is very dated, 57 grants access to sweet US smart shellsand is Bofors anyway
>>65166895>>65167016rent free
>>65167019 >40 is very datedMk 4 with 3P ammo is a perfectly adequate flyswatter.
>>65166890The frigates are going to be choke full of Saab systems and once the integration job is done I expect this version to be offered for export.
>>65166994yes the protestants are gods of war and that's why it's in usa interest to maintain good ties with the nordicks
>>65167027reading between the lines, Bofors has already done a deal with the Anglos on both sides of the Atlantic to focus on the 57
>>65167061Type 31 frigates use 2x Mk4 turrets as CIWS.
>>65166895Seems like a trend.
>>65166890Do you think Saab delivers frigates or something?
>>65166861>Here's to hoping the frog will finally put some MdCN on itanonhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimon-class_frigate
When's the last time swecucks operated a frigate? Cold war?.Sven's can't even operate their corvettes without running aground
>>65166895>maybe ze germans could learn a few things from this european deal...But industry of-set is already a thing the germans do, be it submarines or tanks
>>65167074and its main gun is?
>>65166990>the French Ronarchs have only 32 cells total With a bit of rejiggering and a slight length increase you can fit an extra 8 (40 total). And if you replace 16 Sylver cells with 24 of the new dedicated CAMM-ER cells, this leaves you 24 cells for Asters. Spitballing some specs: AShM/Land-attack: - 8x RBS15 Gungnir (2 quad pods) AA: - 24x Aster 30 (3x8 Sylver) - 24x CAMM-ER (8x3 dedicated VLS) - 16x Mistral 3 (one of those new MBDA-designed multipurpose countermeasures launchers) OR - 6x RBS 70 NG (poverty version, 2x triple tubes on Trackfire RWS) Torp: - 6x Torped 47 (2x triple tubes) Guns: - 1x 57 mm, mix of ALaMO and cheapo SAP-HE - 1x 40 mm, 3P ammo (anti-drone) - #x .50 cal Trackfire RWS, to taste
>>65167151>/Land-attackI've never managed to see the point of expending your precious few numbers of antiship missiles on land-attack, which is a tremendously ammo-intensive mission in comparisonthe only reason I see for the existence of e.g. MdCN or land-attack Gungnir is to say "look I can do it too"it's different for the Americans, who have large numbers of antiship weapons, regularly use hundreds of land-attack weapons on actual ops, and have a steady production line that can output 2-3x all of Europe in a pinch>Spitballing some specs:yeah but let's see what €1 billion actually pays for
>>65166890The other contenders were Spain and the UK, I don't think Sweden ever planned for a fully domestic design.
>>65166839>1B per 4000t shipA bit expensive innit
>>65167164It's also an air-launched missile. I agree it's kinda dumb on a ship, but considering Europe's lacked long range pgm, having a common missile that can be produced in large numbers is a good idea.
>>65166890SAAB excels at integrating their systems in equipment of other producers.
>>65167279Thats like $250 per kg. As expensive as real wasabi.
>>65167151They're not gonna lengthen the hull, would defeat the entire purpose of an off-the-shelf design intended for rapid delivery. They already expanded once from 16 to 32 VLS. That being said, CAMM can bet triple packed in the A50/70 VLS. So they could do 24 CAM, 16 Aster 30, while leaving an additional 8 cells open for additional surface-to-surface missiles or more air-defense.
>>65166994im from stockholm oblast and this is very concerning
>>65167318>leaving an additional 8 cells open for additional surface-to-surface missiles or more air-defense. They're not going to get MdCNs (expensive and pointless), and Gungnirs aren't vertical-launched. And there's no EuroASROC equivalent currently in production. So it's going to be 24x Aster 30, 24x CAMM-ER. What I would change from my previous spitball is remove the idea of Mistral CIWS completely (a third frog SAM would likely be too much for the swedes). Going instead for 12x RBS 70 (4x3, on Trackfire pedestals, similar to picrel), and 2x Bofors Mk 4 instead of a single one (in a gun config similar to that of Type 31 frigates, with 1x 57 and 2x 40).
>>65166895Imagine coping this hard, germany has a many greater deals with multiple european countries, including sweden
>>65166895>>65167016Imagine coping this hard, germany has a many greater deals with multiple european countries, including sweden
>>65166895>>65167016>>65167356Imagine coping this hard, germany has a many greater deals with multiple european countries, including sweden
>>65167023>>65167891>>65167354oh no! my joke broke ze german.quick Hans think of miniature trains.
>>65166990>budget warship for a budget navyIt's roughly 700mn
>>65167164Non-nuclear countries treat long range cruise missile like a deterent. You should see how KSA treat their Storm Shadow, it's almost comicalBeing able to fire from the baltic all the way to moscow is a unique capability that no one in there posess
>>65168073Cruise missiles don't do enough to be threatening to do that.
>>65167279No>>65167299But it's short ranged and it's not being mass produced>>65168073It IS a minor deterrent for turdie scuffles with peers who don't have land attack missiles, but thats not Sweden's reference enemy
>>65166839Lol. Isn't Swedenland a landlocked mountain cuntry? What do they need a navvy for?
>>65168251You're thinking of Italy
>>65168251You're thinking of Japan
>>65166890Subbas gompany...
>Norway buys Bong frigates>Sweden buys Frog frigatesWhat a surprise. Pure coincidence, I am sure.
>>65167101the only reason this existed was because the greek paid for the r&d anon which is ironic considering this is probably the most well equiped frigate right now out there and the french dont even bother having theirs on this level
>>65168251Han vet för mycket. Stäng ner det.
>>65168891?
>>65167103you're thinking of Norway
>>65168983D1a
SEXO
Really sexy ship with this bow.
>>65166839>CAMM-ERNever seen that missile outside of the British before. Why buy it instead of quad packing ESSMs?
>>65169252One of those missiles is European and is currently being installed in Swedish ships
>>65169080>>65169205pinhead
>>65169266No one is using CAMM-ER.
>>65169252>Never seen that missile outside of the British before>>65169708The Polish have bought 1,000 missiles for the Army and for their new Type 31 frigates under construction.
>>65169708Pastas, bongs, poles use it, with more countries (including several sudacas) in the future.
>>65168955>the french dont even bother having theirs on this level Ironic, but not surprising. The frog version of the FREMM is inferior to the pasta one, despite DCN having been the larger R&D party, and the Horizon class is inferior to its Orizzonte counterpart. For whatever reason, the frogs only put in effort when working for somebody else. The new triple-packed cold-launch system for the CAMM-ER is going to be first mounted on the Swede contract ships first (frog ships are only going to receive it as a retrofit in the 2030s).
>>65169835>For whatever reason, the frogs only put in effort when working for somebody elsebudgetthey have the tech but not the money. given their defence budget, their Army is oversized so the Air Force and Navy has to eat compromises such as this.their Army numbers 114,000 troops plus 95,000 Gendarmes, but their Navy and Air Force is only 35,000 and 39,000 strong, respectivelythey also, rather weirdly, have a large number of escort hulls that do fuck-all. I mean their actual "first rank" naval units are basically one carrier, four air defence destroyers, and six ASW frigates. but to that they add five GP frigates and eleven gun frigates, for all intents and purposes: armed with only a single 100mm gun and some glorified MANPADs.I know they have a large maritime EEZ but I still feel they could rationalise the escort fleet a tad.
>>65166890Over? Have you seen their sales lately?
>>65166994Much obliged.
>>65167084IIRC frogs just bought a bunch of Swede patrol boats and shit as well.
>>65166839Good choce the frogs make good ships
>>65169866>they have the tech but not the money. given their defence budget,here is an EU fund supporing rearmament for members not suprising given the danger that places run by loons with halfwitted brainwashed populations like the US and Russia pose
>>65169795>>65169773>countries that want to use it but don't have anyCan we see these CAMM-ER in service?
>>65169866>the army is oversized>while the domestic production of tanks and small arms is virtually dead>meanwhile Rafales are top notch and the Navy stuff is good tooreally makes your head churnI mean sure, as a major land country, they should've a large army, but at the same time the army tech gets neglected as hell
>>65169978Here.
>>65169959>here is an EU fund supporing rearmament for membersMembers+, Ukraine is included as well. Imagine the amount of drones they can spam out with literally a hundred billion euros.
>>65170131>>65169959>loans
>>65170137It was nice of the Russians to provide the collateral.
>>65170198Not really, since the seized Russian funds are contingent on separate requirements, i.e. Ukraine still has to repay their loans, whether they will eventually access those Russian funds or not is out of their hands. Also, Ukraine's increased borrowings since the war began is now 1.5x of the total amount the Europeans seized from Russia.I'm not saying "we should not lend them money"... or rather, I am, but what I mean is "we should GIVE them money".Unfortunately, Europe is broke and cannot admit that. So they publish a lot of bullshit about "giving aid" to Ukraine when they should really say "LENDING aid" to Ukraine.
>>65170107That is CAMM not CAMM-ER.
>>65170220>https://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda-and-poland-sign-landmark-narew-project>https://europeanspaceflight.com/avio-receives-150m-euros-contract-to-supply-rocket-motors-for-camm-er-missiles/>https://milmag.pl/en/poland-state-of-the-art-camm-er-missile-service-and-production-center-to-be-built-in-zielonka/>https://thedefensepost.com/2026/03/31/poland-missile-facility/Poland specifically bought CAMM-ER, faggot. Go home and cry in your vodka.
>>65170229You literally posted a picture of a vehicle armed with CAMM when asked to post a picture of CAMM-ER in service."b-b-but Poland bought CAMM-ER" is no different than acting like the American GPI is in service.
>>65170211If they don't repay them the Russian assets will be sold as collateral. >Ukraine's increased borrowings since the war began is now 1.5x of the total amount the Europeans seized from Russia.Well not all the borrowing is Russia-backed borrowing, and all the money currently stuck in Belgium is still accruing interest (transferred to Ukraine). Nobody is expecting Ukraine to actually repay them, if it even happens it will be decades and decades in the future.
>>65170252I don't owe an explanation to a faggot who didn't even know the Polish contract existed to begin with.
>>65170253>If they don't repay>the Russian assets will be sold as collateralNo such agreement exists.The fate of the Russian assets depends on settlement of war reparations with Russia, wholly separate from the question of Ukraine's debt.>Nobody is expecting Ukraine to actually repay themYou are far too trusting.
>>65170268No anon what you are trying to do is claim Poland ordering CAMM-ER is the same as Poland having CAMM-ER. Remember the question was "Can we see these CAMM-ER in service?"You don't have such a picture and are now seething.
>>65170271>The fate of the Russian assets depends on settlement of war reparations with RussiaYeah, which is not looking likely. I mean yeah Ukraine will have to repay the loans if Russia agrees to give it reparations for starting the war, killing civilians, destroying entire regions etc., which I don't think will happen. >You are far too trusting.Having to pay €90bn some decades in the future after you won a war and became an EU member sounds like a good deal even in the worst-case scenario.
>>65170275>Remember the question was>>65169252>Never seen that missile outside of the British beforeThat photo was taken specifically upon the delivery of the first Polish Narew CAMM-ER system. In addition, the Italians also took delivery of their first production unit at the start of this year.You are ignorant, ran off your mouth, and are now desperately trying to cover it up.Fuck off.
>>65170211Europe is utterly cooked as a military power until it fixes this. You want to understand the deep-seated malaise over there, it's this image: Europe doesn't make enough to do what it wants. The lack of growth means there's currently a $10 trillion dollar gap between the EU and the U.S. today, when the economies were roughly equal two decades ago. And the difference is compounding as we speak, growing more starker every year.Even assuming a relatively modest 2% of GDP military spend, that's an additonal 200 billion for military procurement every single year that does not exist. That's more than what Germany and the U.K. spend combined each year. This isn't just me American dickwagging; it's watching the death of your main ally in slow motion.
>>65170317Yep, I've been saying exactly all that (and being insulted for it) for the past decade.>>65170284>Ukraine will have to repay the loans if Russia agrees to give it reparationsOnce again: these are two separate events.Ukraine didn't accept those loans conditional to Russia paying reparations.Likewise, what Russia will or will not do has nothing to do with Ukraine's loans.It's like saying "Iran will surely have to repay the Americans for all the missiles expended in the coming ceasefire treaty". Lol no.
>>65166928>And if your goal is to shoot down flying lawn mowers - magazine depth and ROF of the 57mm might be preferable.76 mm oto melara is better because it has a watercooled barrel meaning much longer fire endurance.
>>65170317You can thank that retarded Stasi bitch and the worthless morons in the German Constitutional Court.
>>65170818In all fairness King Nigger Obumner deserves some of the blame. He convinced the Euros to join the climate-change suicide pact. But he secretly drilled the fuck out of Texas and North Dakota while Europe dismantled its energy industry.
>>65166839>tldr>we can't count on the USA to baby us anymoreGood.
>>65170842In fairness, Sweden is one of like three European nations that didn't expect us to babysit them.
what do naval ships even do any more
>>65170554>76 mm oto melara is betterExcept it's big, heavy, or has limited ammoIt does have better range and per-shell lethality but sometimes when you are constrained for size and weight you simply have to make do. The Sovraponte mounts have severe limitations compared to the full-fat mounts.>>65170818Yep>>65170826Yes, he is to be blamed for promoting the climate change stupidityBut the yuros could have said "no" at any time, and for that they must take responsibility and be held accountable.The sovereign authority to lead a nation must also come with sovereign responsibility and ACCOUNTABILITY.
>>65170864Has there been a single accountable European politician this century? It seems the model is resign at the slightest hiccup (Britain), never form a government (Netherlands and Belgium), break every promise you made (Germany), or do literally nothing at all (France).
>>65170826>He convinced the Euros to join the climate-change suicide pact. That would've been much less of a problem if Yuroland had pulled a CHAYNA and created an EU-level Fund for Energy Resilience and Development (or whatever). Use it to cover every flat roof and parking lot with solar panels. Price pressure on hydrocarbons (from power generation and transportation) would be reduced, and they could be redirected to the industry where there are no alternatives (chemical). But that treasonous harpy sperged and reeed at any attempts to create Union-wide fiscal tools, and the retarded "muh inflashun" fossils in the BVerfG backed her up with their bullshit legalese. Add to this the coal and gas lobbies, and you got a perfect shitshow. >>65170864>The Sovraponte mounts have severe limitations compared to the full-fat mounts. Eh, the only big one is magazine size (76 rounds), which has to be refilled manually. If you use them exclusively as CIWS with DART rounds, it's still a larger magazine than an equivalent RIM-116 lancher (21 missiles, also has to be reloaded manually, one missile at a time).
>>65170876>Britainis actually actively fucking the citizenryliterally as well as figuratively>>65170951I'm willing to bet that twenty-one RIM-116s are more accurate and therefore have more effective 'stored kills' than seventy-six Oto Melara 76mm shells, even if the latter are of the bougie 3P variety
>>65171023>3P DART shells are actively guided. They're like miniature missiles.
>>65166839inb4 Frogs in return actually commit to buying CB90s
>>65171421they're already buying Saab Globaleye and Giraffe 1X radars in return
>>65166839I dont think much will come out of this as all euro countries will be in a severe budgetary hardship this autumn as the combined effects of oil, food and more esoteric shortages generates a massive wave of cost increases which will in turn push up central bank rates which will in turn push up the bond rates these governments will have to pay when they reissue their expired bonds. All this rearnament is paid for with the government credit card. The idea is to "let inflation (monetary debasement) eat the debt while paying a couple of percent in interest fees annually". Not "pay back the debt asap because the interest is suffocating". As long as nothing has been paid for, its cheaper to pay the cancellation fines than proceed with the project. That wont be possible 6 months from now. And this applies to all old debt as well. The brits are the canary in the coal mine here. Their ten year is like 5% already. By winter, it will be 10%. Once they implode, all of Europe will be tainted and that will in turn trigger another euro government default somewhere which will in turn taint the euro bond market even more in a self feeding loop. America will be the big winner from this as this will keep down bond rates in America. The amount of haughty mockery that will flow from America towards Europe and in particular Bongladesh will be immense. Much like pic related, but haughtier. Any pleas for mercy will be met by a goofyesque he-he-haw-haw-haw.
>>65171224it has about 1/9th the HE fill of a RIM-116, 2/3rds the range, and tiny control surfaces in comparison; manoeuvrability and accuracy will be reduced accordingly. the electronics can't be as precise as guided missiles otherwise they would cost as much as, well, a guided missile.
