>>65167829
This is embarrassing, but considering the scope of the operations, against a large, fairly well funded nation, it is almost acceptable.
A good number of those were avoidable though. The tankers colliding and the Sentry are the big oofs.

>>65167864
what kicks me up is that most of them were lost on the ground and a good portion of the rest to friendly fire.

>>65167876
Have we heard anything on that Kuwaiti F-18 pilot? How Arab is Kuwait?
Are they going to publicly beat him and then execute him in public?
Does he get extradited and stand trail?

>>65167876
That's the thing that really chafes me, a very large chunk of these losses were easily avoidable but just didn't happen. Must be weird as a guy working Iranian AD knowing you're not even the second biggest threat to American planes

>>65167884
Imagine if he is a crusty old fuck with 2 kills from Gulf Storm and now he is technically an ace.

>>65167864
>fairly well funded nation

>>65167951
Where is your criticism, exactly?
>Oil nation working on nuclear projects
Better funded than Afghanistan. Better funded than Iraq, I would argue. Better funded than Venezuala, Panama Nicaragua, Cuba

>>65167829
do you havea source that isnt a guy on twitter?

>>65167988
I would appreciate this to, but as I spend way too much time here, that chart seems legit.

>>65167829
Not bad for a third world country with a decapitated leadership and running on fumes.

>>65167999
Cursed inverted Satan trips checked.

Iran is in fact very strong.

>>65168024
No one is arguing that. This thread is about us getting complacent. That AWACS should NEVER have been hit.
An E3 on the ground should be in a hardened hanger and as soon as it exits, have a Patriot battery and multiple SHORAD covering it.

>>65167988
>>65167991
>help I can't use a search engine
open wide here comes the spoon!
https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IN/PDF/IN12692/IN12692.2.pdf

>Listed here are 42 fixed-wing or rotary-wing aircraft, including uncrewed aircraft (i.e., drones), reportedly
lost or damaged in OEF, according to news reports and statements by DOD and U.S. Central Command
(CENTCOM)

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>>65167829
>1 x E-3 Sentry AWACS damaged
Sure, a few screws and bolts here and there and she'll fly again

>>65168035
Thanks, fag. It was an implied insult to OP, but I appreciate you being a good anon.

>>65168037
OP is a tard, the chart says destroyed/lost.

>>65167999
You've never met an Iranian irl. They are a proud and more importantly, STUBBORN people. Very stubborn. Very much like the Vietnamese people. They will wait it out and have nothing to lose. Meanwhile, every single day this weirdly directionless "war" drags on, the US pays billions of dollars in fuel, provisions, maintenance and munitions. More importantly, the US loses face and prestige, hence the humiliation heaped upon Trump when he was treated like a vassal ruler supplicating to Emperor Xi in their recent audience. All this so that Habibi Schlomo can get more votes in Israel. That's the real reason for this war.

>>65167829
>6 MH-6 Little Birds destroyed because two planes got stuck in sand
???
I don't get it.

>>65167829
>42 US aircraft lost or damaged!
>24 of them are out of production, disposable reapers
sure

>>65168072
>All this so that Habibi Schlomo can get more votes in Israel. That's the real reason for this war.
MAGA tards claiming that was all part of the big beautiful plan incoming in 3, 2, 1...

>>65168072
Every people is "stubborn" when they have absolutely no say in their situation

>>65168083
Botched CSAR mission for downed F15 crew. Tow C-130 (these two mentioned in OP pic) got stuck in sand at FBO in Iranian teritory and therefore MH-6 which were planned to be evac'd back as cargo have to be smoked 'cause they don't have enough range to reach friendly teritory on their own

>>65168091
comrade as a comrade from ohio oblast this is too great of loss we must sue for peace

>>65167829
Not actually as many as I thought

>>65167864
The tankers and AWACs on the ground in known range of Iranian drones and missiles was just stupid.

>>65167829
>lost two 130J Commando IIs
wonder what spec ops got up to during this war. guess we'll find out in 10 years.

>>65168072
>the Iranians are proud to be held at gunpoint by their despotic nigger leaders!

>>65168287
>he doesn't know

>>65168312
No. Tell me.

>>65167864
>This is embarrassing
Bait. Absolute fucking bait.

>>65168316
>>65168131

>>65168392
Ah, that actually wasn't very riveting. Owen Wilson did it!

>>65168396
Anon calling it "botched" is a misnomer. They dumped a hundred men into the middle of Iran, leveled everything within 5 miles of the WSO, and got out with the only casualties being a couple of planes that got stuck in the sand.

>>65167864
It's less shit than was lost in Iraq 1, and all those were actual aircraft rather than 20 year old UAVs.

Heh.
I guess the Reaper's time has come.

>>65168321
How, you fucking retard? Getting an AWACS killed by lawnmower drones from a bunch of doon coons is not embarrassing how?
Prideful idiots like you are how we got these losses.

>>65167884
>Have we heard anything on that Kuwaiti F-18 pilot?
He got arrested last I heard. Nothing else since then

>>65168131
Fugg. Why was MH-6 never configured for IFR? Service ceiling or just never considered necessary?

>>65168740
nta
if the IRGC had captured that pilot, we'd be hearing about it every single day ad nauseum in addition all the issues it would have caused. seems like the operation was well worth it.

>>65168740
I do. Being lazy and getting struck on the ground, I unfortunately believe because we underestimated the enemy.
Getting our shit together, going balls out and actually planning and killing everything that moves to rescue a downed airman? I can believe that too.
Story embellished? Maybe.

>>65167951
>3x the population of Ukraine
>2x the GDP
And look at what Ukraine can do to Russia, a country with $7 trillion GDP. Iran is not Iraq or Afghanistan.

>>65168299
Also they get pissed if you call them "Iranians". Only people who actually support the regime are okay with that. Everyone else insists you refer to them as "Persian."

>>65167864
>fairly well funded nation
>Iran
nigga please, this is russia-tier cope about Ukraine being "the strongest European power"

>>65168673
Iraq was the top-tier military in its time

>>65168287
There was clearly F15 debris, but I am honestly suspicious the pilots even existed at all. There was that geographic distance covered that defies belief as well as the fact that in other instances of rescue operations we knew about the identities of the people being rescued pretty soon, even before they were rescued in the case of the pretty girl with the convoy in Iraq. They would have had a badass hero(es) to promote to increase morale regarding the war if the pilots actually existed. You can't cry "but opsec" when we had the name and face of the blackhawk helicopter guy who was heroically able to maintain control on his blackhawk while his legs were ripped apart by autocannons. Different foe to Iran, sure, but principle is the same that they're willing to identify heroic pilots no problem.

Had the abortive attempt to take the Iranian nuclear material worked then it would have gone down as the amazing caper-con to trick the Iranians into tracking a pilot who didn't exist while the US went into the hornet's nest to steal the uranium out from under their noses. Shit would ALREADY be getting filmed as a heist-thriller movie given how spectacular a move it would have been. It just got called off for whatever reason.

>>65168786
And yet Iraq could not decisively beat Iran just a few years before.
Name a country in the Middle East, besides Isreal, or in the Balkans, or any former USSR that was a stronger power than Iran before the war?
Despite all the previous strikes by US and Israel.
Again; Retards like you, underestimating the enemy, are why we as yet do not have a decisive victory and unconditional surrender.
You are a weakness.

>>65168793
I'll go one further.
Name a nation in Central or South America or South East Asia that was stronger militarily.
Obviously China, Japan, Ozzies don't count.
Brazil?
Indonesia?
You think if they had been antagonizing us for decades we would be having the difficulty conquering them we are having now?
Brazil should be harder since it is so much larger but logistics would be easier since it is closer, so I argue equal.

>>65168804
Iran is easily the third or fourth most powerful U.S. adversary depending on how you rank North Korea's nukes.

>>65168804
And then;
Do you think Brazil could have beat Iran?
Could Indonesia?
Could even Australia?
Or Japan?
The point is, this shouldn't have been expected to be beating up a weakling.
We staged a fleet and planes.
And then...? Iran has been expecting to get fucked for like 30 years. We have just been sanctioning, vaguely threatening and sometimes bombing.
You think they didn't learn from that?
You think they didn't learn from Iraq and Afghanistan?
Doesn't matter anyways, it's like Covid; a scam to make the super-rich more rich, while we suffer and in Congress they blame each other and pretend to try and stay in power while behind closed doors they are on the same side. People who believe the two parties are against each other are the same type of retards who think pro wrestlan' is real.

>>65168808
the wall of big guns aimed at south korea is already a problem, irrespective of nukes

>>65168793
Iran would beat Israel if it didn't have US support.

>>65168838
thank fuck iran is peaceful then.

>>65168072
>if you defend your home from invaders you're stubborn

America deserved all the deaths and the lost planes to be fair.

>>65168885
Doubly so for the IRGC whose main proficiency is murdering civilians

Epic

>>65168072
It isn't directionless, its a very simple and straightforward war being fought against browns getting uppity and all the people like (You) who want to see America dethroned as the penultimate World Protagonist.

What you don't realize is that there is no other World Protagonist after this, we just devolve into endless downhill shitstorm all the way to human extinction after America is removed from its position as top dog - nobody else is going to rise, we're just all going to fall. There isn't anywhere else white enough or civilized enough to carry on after this, it'll just be browns and feminists bitching into the wind until everyone starves or rapes each other to death.

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>>65167829
So subtracting friendly fire, accidents, and unmanned platforms, Iran has managed to shoot down two attack aircraft and hit another half dozen on the ground?

Given the sheer size of the battlespace (pic rel) and number of sorties, that's pretty damn good.

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I've lost fucking count of the number of "final warnings" in this war

>>65168918
>It isn't directionless, its a very simple and straightforward war
No strategic objectives were named except for "regime change" and "ending the ballistic missile program" and neither of those happened. The first because the US also told everybody not to revolt yet and then never said when. The second because for some reason the US decided bombing internal police infrastructure made sense when they clearly weren't going for regime change (see note 1) instead of just going full send on military installations.

We fucking rolled the Iranians, but decided we didn't actually want to actually do anything except yell at Britain to open the strait of Hormuz because our CIC is too chickenshit to actually do the goddamned job.

It's MacArthur levels of incompetence.

>>65168950
There are no military installations left above ground. The Iranian regime has been hiding under mountains and inside tunnels for months, emerging only to take pot shots at civilian ships.

>>65168924
But didn't he follow-through on his threats? Most of Iran's leadership is fine red paste.

>>65168950
>Uranium still there
>Drone production still there
>Missiles and missile production still there
>Military still there and active
>Regime still there
Also keep in mind that the strikes they did were the result of decades of intelligence gathering and picking big juicy targets.
The effectiveness of bombing campaigns kinda wears off the longer you do it and Iran will more and more be pushed underground.
As USA you have to commit fully now because in a few years when they need to get bombed again they wont be as easy of a target.

>>65168971
I don't care if the entire Iranian government gets wiped out every week, it doesn't seem to have any effect on ending the war. Another typical focus on tactical/operational successes without any decisive strategic effect.

>>65168924
>trump's final warning
he went to china to learn from the best

>>65168969
great, so Iran has signed a peace treaty? They've surrendered? Has political will been imposed?

>>65168974
But the strategy hasn't born out yet. You can't score the game until it's finished. It seems to me everyone is just assuming that the IRGC prevails before things actually resolve. At the very least, one should be a bit more humble when it comes to making predictions.

>>65168978
>But the strategy hasn't born out yet
two more weeks?
a month?
20 years?

>>65168980
Has it even been three months? Iran has been a problem festering for 47 years, if there was a one day plan to resolve it, don't you think someone would have done it by now? It turns out getting a bunch of radical shiite clerics to drop their nuclear ambitions takes time. You just seem ignorant about how the world works.

>>65168985
>if there was a one day plan to resolve it, don't you think someone would have done it by now?
Starting a war seems to have been that plan, and now it's clearly a stalemate with no clear end in sight

>>65168993
But that's not true. The admin is using the counter-blockade and the threat of renewed bombing as leverage in negotiations. The IRGC is betting that it can outlast the pressure and use the threat of terrorism to effectively annex Hormuz. Just because things are moving slowly in terms of the news cycle doesn't equate to a stalemate.

>>65168999
USAF is just running out of bombs. Who to blame?

And something big definitely burning in ruusssiaaa is the only reason for this Pakistan bot hype

>>65168793
>why we as yet do not have a decisive victory and unconditional surrender
there wont be either of those. that window was closed long ago. suck up the loss and get out imo

>>65168793
>And yet Iraq could not decisively beat Iran just a few years before.
Yes, because no amount of tanks, planes and soldiers can help you overcome retards in command and corruption.

>>65168808
Iran is easily the American adversary with the strongest strategic position. Russia is currently losing a war against literally who, and China's strategic position against the US is similar to the US's against Iran, except the US is vastly more powerful. China is a net importer of food and energy, and we can see in Hormuz how well a naval blockade of a shipping chokepoint can work with very little investment. A naval blockade of the Strait of Malacca would being China to their knees, and they wouldn't be any more able to break it than the US has been able to break the Iranian blockade.

>>65168740
>>65168746 this. I was promised a rape and beheading video for two days straight, where the fuck is it?

>>65168035
>according to news reports
Into the trash it goes.

>>65167829
Now let’s see the chart of Iran’s losses, particularly one about ships since they’ve had 30+ sunk since January.

>>65167829
>finally confirmed that F-35 got hit by Iranian missile
not so invisible now huh

>>65167864
>fairly well funded nation
Idk man. 8 billion annual expenditure sounds measly

>>65168786
that fact that someone can say these two things in one post is hilarious

>>65167864
>>65167892
>A good number of those were avoidable though.
It shows the lack of planning and leadership.

>>65168740
If the Iranians had got that airman, living or dead, then they would constantly be showing him off in propaganda.
This being the case, it is obvious that the US (having been able to fly, land, and refuel a damn C-130 with impunity in the area) was able to retrieve the pilot first.

>>65169111
Iraq objectively had one of the largest militaries of the time before desert storm, it's a fact.

>>65168971
Well no, given he made those threats AFTER him and Bibi killed their initial leadership and it ended up being replaced by younger hardliners that were even less willing to negotiate.

>>65168950
>The first because the US also told everybody not to revolt yet and then never said when.
More like because the US just sat there and fucking watched a few weesk earlier when the attempted revolution got stomped flat by the IRGC hard enough that there's nobody left willing to organise another try.

>>65168969
>There are no military installations left above ground.
Dude, not even the CIA's PR department is agreeing with you on that.

>hiding under mountains and inside tunnels for months, emerging only to take pot shots at civilian ships
Which because of SOMEONE completely fucking failing to plan and prepare for this conflict is all they need to do to win.

>>65168999
>counter-blockade
A pure stalling tactic.
>threat of renewed bombing
Completely useless.

Trump started this war in a fashion that has made it an existential conflict for Iran. Threats and stalling tactics provide no leverage in negotiations in which the other side cannot give in because doing so would mean their guaranteed annihilation as an independent nationstate and the deaths of their leadership and their families. The IRGC is betting it can outlast the pressure because that is literally the only option that offers them a prospect of survival. And newsflash, it's pretty easy to courageously resist pressure when your life depends on it.

>>65169014
>and China's strategic position against the US is similar to the US's against Iran
LMAO, delusional.

>China is a net importer of food and energy
Largely incorrect, and also ignores that China has deliberately diversified its import sources to a massive degree specifically to make blockade attempts virtually impossible.

>A naval blockade of the Strait of Malacca
Would fail to cripple China, and drive virtually all of South East Asia into their camp instead. Hell, it'd likely drive the freakin' Phillippines into Chinas arms by making them dependent on chinese resource deliveries to replace what goes through Malacca.

>>65169197
not exactly top-tier

That's looks big. BTW how many soldiers did Russia lose in Ukraine? In the first 2 months?

>>65169197
Always amusing to hear "one of the largest" pointed out. It's not incorrect, just very careful wording avoiding any claims of an EFFECTIVE army.

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>>65169250
idk about Russia but total US KIA was 13.

For comparison, US KIA in:
>Grenada: 19
>Panama: 23
>Somalia: 18

Yes, you read that correctly. The great martial (lol) nations of Panama and Grenada, as well as a single Mogadishu warlord, put up a bigger fight than Iran.

>>65169286
To be fair, those involved ground operations while Iran has been restricted to air strikes and long range bombardment.

>>65167829
>include color for unconfirmed status
>don't use it
Why is this on the chart then? Other than to confuse someone looking at it?

Also, how did we let some Mick damage a C-130 badly enough that it ended up on this chart?

>>65168746
This. We too quickly forgot the morale hit that came from shit like Somalis dragging chopper pilot bodies through the streets of Mogadishu. That single-handedly ended our involvement in the Somali Civil War, and helped doom the country to its current failed-state status.

>>65167864
>>65167829
If anything is embarassing it is that numbers are padded, more than half of the losses are drones.

>>65168740
People do. "People" don't.

>>65169342
The official narrative is that the US destroyed the C-130s because they got stuck in mud during the downed F-15 WSO rescue operation.

>>65167829
so Iran got about 4 kills of actual manned planes? the rest were on the ground drones or friendly fire/demo

>>65169413
*on the ground, drones

>>65169413
2. The 3 F-15s were friendly fire, the 2 KC-135s were a mid-air collision (one made it back, but probably a write-off).

I'll say it once and I'll say it again: we should've kept the peace accord.

>>65168099
Cardboard ayatollah status?

>>65168978
>But the strategy hasn't born out yet

The strategy failed. It was borne out. The strategy was unrestricted bombing combined with a kurdish invasion of northern Iran to topple the Iranian regime. The decapitation strike didn't destroy their government. The bombing campaign didn't eliminate Iran's ability to retaliate or create conditions for an uprising. The Kurdish invasion was stillborn because the Kurds don't trust the US.
That strategy failed. Iran closed the strait and was able to fire enough damaging strikes in the Gulf states to force Trump to abandon his demand for unconditional surrender and declare an unconditional ceasefire which continues to this day. That was the end of the initial strategy. The blockade by the US is a NEW strategy reacting to conditions after the failure of Trump's first strategy in launching the war. Repetition on purpose so everyone gets it.

>>65168035
>accordings to news reports
lol.

>>65169432
Why?

>>65169395
Did you reply to the wrong post, anon? I was not talking about the MC-130Js, I was talking about the C-130H.

>>65169428
so Iran shot 2 manned aircraft out of the sky?

>>65169286
>idk about Russia but total US KIA was 13.
Half of those had nothing to do with Iran.

>>65168091
>Out of production
>Disposable
Are you retarded?

>>65168971
>Most of Iran's leadership is fine red paste.
cope harder retard, they got replaced by the same people, nothing changed

>>65169522
>t-they got replaced!
Massive brown person cope

>>65169526
Nothing changed you retard, they were replaced by more extreme people. How does this end this retarded war?

>>65169226
>LMAO, delusional.
The US has de facto control of the straits vital to China the same way that Iran has de facto control of the Strait of Hormuz. If the US can't take control of Hormuz from Iran, what hope does China have of taking control of Malacca from the US?

>Largely incorrect
There are no degrees of correctness here, it is simply a fact that China imports more energy and foodstuffs than they export.

>Would fail to cripple China, and drive virtually all of South East Asia into their camp instead.
It would absolutely cripple China, and the US could simply let ships through to other SEA countries. If China were to seize those ships or declare a counter blockade, that would drive all of those countries even further into American arms.

>>65169511
Iran shot 2 manned aircraft *in* the sky. It doesn't really count as a shootdown if the plane lands afterwards.

>>65169483
>The blockade by the US is a NEW strategy reacting to conditions after the failure of Trump's first strategy in launching the war.
It would have been plan A. The very first thing we should have done was to bomb the railroads and pipelines leading out of the country, bomb their Caspian ports, and mine Kharg Island. Within an hour of the Iranians setting up their toll booth we should have warned everyone that we had mined the area.

>>65168725
That's a bunch of extra equipment and weight on a very small chopper. It may also not be able to maintain a speed above a tankers' stall speed. It's already pretty borderline on most choppers.

>>65169549
>would have
should have*

Sorry, I'm a filthy phoneposter.

Remember when cells in Yemen shot down four aircraft in one week and the government said it was accidents each time and the carriers morale broke so they started clogging the toilets? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

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>>65167892
>a very large chunk of these losses were easily avoidable but just didn't happen
I'm sure most accidents are avoidable but they weren't which is why they're accidents.

Avoidable doesn't mean foreseeable, people aren't going to be on the ball 100% of the time.
How many layers of oversight should there be when deciding how you're going to land your SAR force?
More than there was obviously and you'd think they'd have been extra careful since they've literally had fuckups like this before with Iran but still.

>>65169529
Some new developments today. Several supermax tankers were allowed through the strait by both Iran and the US to South korea and china, new round of peace talks may be about to begin in Pakistan. Oil and Gasoline are absolutely dumping on the market right now. If there was a strategy to cripple China, it's not working. In fact, it looks like Xi got something from Trump during the summit to get oil supplies released. The only tankers that were allowed out today are going to China. How does that square with a cripple China strategy? Trump is checkmated.

>>65169574
>Several supermax tankers were allowed through the strait by both Iran and the US to South korea and china
>The only tankers that were allowed out today are going to China
Well, which is it?

>>65169574
>How does that square with a cripple China strategy? Trump is checkmated.
Xi doesn't know that Trump is playing checkers!

>>65169584
Don't be obtuse anon, the operative word in the second line is clearly "today".

>>65169574
>If there was a strategy to cripple China, it's not working.
Who claimed that the blockade of Hormuz was a strategy to cripple China? I realize that English isn't your first language, but I was quite clear in my statements.

>>65168706
>doon coons
Sadly, Iran is more white than US these days.

>>65169432
Yes you should've given up all the Uranium.

>>65169663
That's a very stupid thing to pretend to believe, but hey, whatever keeps the cognitive dissonance at bay.

>>65169483
The strategy is taking Iranian nukes off the board. There have been military and diplomatic operations, including a bombing campaign, a blockade, negotiations, and sanctions in support of that strategy. We can quibble over the individual effectiveness of given operations and good/bad tactics, but the main goal remains to ensure the IRGC cannot get a nuclear bomb.

All of that is still up in the air as this conflict swings between kinetic, economic, and propaganda phases. It's disingenuous to say a given strategy has failed before the conflict is even resolved. Moreover just because a given operation doesn't achieve total strategic success doesn't mean it was failed or ineffective, but rather that it did not achieve the maximum possible benefit.

Most of the analysis of the conflict I've seen is circular. Everyone assumes Iran has won, and then just selectively lists the factors that support that conclusion. I want to reiterate, we are three months in. Calling the conflict one way or the other is a fool's errand. The IRGC has some leverage, but it also has some serious disadvantages. Likewise the U.S., being the most powerful country in human history, has cards to play while also needing to be mindful of the economic impact.

For example, it's not obvious that Iran's strategy of blockading the Strait and waiting out the U.S. is going to work, especially before the rest of the world gets fed up and dogpiles on Iran. If Iran loses its Hormuz leverage, it's left with three bad options, capitulate, resume the war, or suffer the blockade.

>>65169770
>just because a given operation doesn't achieve total strategic success
the goal being to stop Iran from getting nukes and/or regime change
>doesn't mean it was failed or ineffective
when their nuclear program isn't abandoned and the regime is still in place

nigga you are saying you are going to the store to get condoms and lube, but instead you come home with a strap on dildo. are you or are you not getting assblasted

also
>before the rest of the world gets fed up and dogpiles on Iran
>on Iran
lol, lmao even

>>65169770
I don't think anyone's assuming they've 'won' as such but the mere fact that they continue to have not definitively lost is a pretty fucking big problem, and closer to their success state than that of the United States.
The US needs to win, Iran just needs to not lose for long enough. Essentially all parties, including those not directly involved, are in a materially worse state than they were before hostilities that as far as we know were planned to be quick and decisive started too.

>>65169799
Anal sex metaphore out of nowhere aside, we're speaking past one another.

The conflict is still in progress. The U.S. is working towards ending the nuclear program and possible regime change. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. Its possible Iran's strategy works and the U.S. folds. It's also possible that attempting to block the Strait to influence the behavior of the nation most insulated from its closure doesn't work. Things will become untenable in east Asia and Europe before America has to do anything drastic. Further, there's the wild card of the Iranian people and how long they'll tolerate total economic collapse.

>>65168894
What do you think America has been up to for the entire GWOT, and before? What do you think Israel has been up to in Gaza and Lebanon?

The crocodile tears for muh Iranian protesters is so cheesy, when Iranians are collateral damage from US strikes you faggots all get a hardon

>>65169528
the IRGC does not have the capacity to continue this way forever. They will collapse

>>65169574
>If there was a strategy to cripple China, it's not working
China is literally relying on the US and Iran, as you admit

>>65168751
This is my reply.
Fuck you, jannies and mods. That comment I replied to violated none of 4chan's rules.
Stop being obviously bought and paid for agents.

>>65169663
Iran is 0% white, and yes even the Caucasian hill tribes aren't white, Aryan perhaps but White is a more exclusive club. And you give up your white care if you are mudslime. Jews of course have the highest negative score possible when it comes to whiteness as they are antithetical to whites.

>>65168706
To be honest with size of the front and the amount of shitbots they threw around in hope of something hitting it is to be expected unless you are going to allocate way more resources to air patrol or organic air defense than they did. So the issue becomes political as much as doctrinal since the amount of resources they could commit was limited by their risk assessment: which costs more allocating more resources to the campaign and thereby needing to fight with the political opposition or risking a few hits.

I think that faggots like you don't understand that military autists don't have pride, our interest in is the cold assessment of equipment, tactics, strategy, and doctrine. Concern trolling doesn't work both because their are no emotions to appeal to and because your line of reasoning is flawed. On this Mongolian basket weaving forum the currency is being correct in an assessment, we aren't an appropriations committee to overestimating the enemy serves no function here. Our spergy conjecture isn't being used to set procurement policy or air defense doctrine.

>>65169878
>cold assessment of equipment, tactics, strategy, and doctrine.
>Not protecting an AWACS
Pick one.

>>65169827
I agree that this isn't over jet, but we are judging it based on the information we have up to this point.
up to this point the US hasn't achieved it's goal.
that indeed doesn't mean it won't but it does mean that the "burden of proof" is on you to explain why that's more likely than the current status quo.
It'm mostly picking on the downshifting to a lesser goal, like the russians have, is not a argument for a strong US position. something you'd have to be arguing in favor of if you want to.
>hings will become untenable in east Asia and Europe before America has to do anything drastic
here's the fault in your logic of the rest of the world dogpiling Iran.
the US is the most capable of forcing Iran due to it being the dominant military power, it hasn't managed to force Iran
here is a lose ad hoc grouping of countries that are all less capable militarily than the US, they will succeed in forcing Iran.
since the US imposes sanction on Iran and has forced other countries to comply, they can't even try to force Iran trough other than military means
so forcing Iran is of the table military or otherwise.
forcing the US militarily is for the same reason of the table. but they do have a lot of trade, diplomatic contacts and other US interests they could hinder. so they could force the US by other means.
as such when things start going bad enough they will instead start pressuring the US.
they prefer a world where Iran doesn't have a nuclear program, where the IRGC doesn't hold power and their relation with the US aren't tested.
but that preference has cut of point and past that the cost of pressuring the US becomes lower than the cost of just doing nothing.
this is also what Iran is banking on when you break it all down.
that is also why the US screwed up so bad. it didn't even try to build a case for intervention despite the butchering of protestors being a very solid basis. it didn't even bother to give it's major allies a heads up.

>>65169831
>the government is full of hypocritical libtards, duplicitous cuckservatives, and outright heebs
Ya think anon, really? The average redneck voter wants both Israel and Iran reduced to a glowing pan of glass.

>>65169812
Well that's the problem when the objective is just "survive." Every day the IRGC can claim to be winning merely be existing, regardless of the fact that many senior leaders are blown up, that the military industrial complex has been savaged, that the navy is sunk, decades of carefully constructed dark money networks have been dissolved, that payroll can't be met, and there are 90 million seething Iranians they need to govern.

But look at the trajectory. I think people apply a god-like level of competence to the IRGC because 1) they are foreign and fanatical, 2) the US Admin does itself no favors in the realm of public opinion. But at bottom these are not competent guys. They've burned hundreds of billions in national wealth and trillions more in opportunity cost pursing a terror agenda. Their capital city doesn't have water, and they've backed themselves into a corner where there only effective way of hurting the U.S. is firing missiles and drones into dozens of different countries and shooting a civilian tankers from around the world. Maybe they're batshit crazy enough to win. Or maybe this all comes crashing down around their ears.

>>65169887
You do realize that shit gets blown up in war right? More shit was lost in the Gulf War in less time, and more of it wasn't obsolete UAVs which were deployed as expendible assets or actual valuable shit shot down by retarded sand monkey "allies".

Clearly they either underestimated how much shit Iran could sling or were willing to take the risk rather than allocate more resources and suffer the political consequences. Of course when you do the latter and something does happen you suffer political consequences for complacency. Once again you emotionalist faggots think that assessing something is defending it. I'd like to kill every jew and arab on the entire planet, empty their wallets into the coffers to buy more weapons and then chop up their land into parcels allocated to every white American who can then keep or sell them at their pleasure. But I'm not godking of America so I don't get what I want, and neither do you.

>>65169878
>Iran is 0% white, and yes even the Caucasian hill tribes aren't white, Aryan perhaps but White is a more exclusive club. And you give up your white care if you are mudslime. Jews of course have the highest negative score possible when it comes to whiteness as they are antithetical to whites.
I couldn't disagree more, the people around that part of the world are certainly more equivalent to whites than American amalgamations. You are also incorrect in your assessment of jews. Reason being, jews aren't human so the term "race" is not applicable to them.

>>65169889
i think America is in a better postition than any other country. Iran is going to fall into chaos the longer this goes on. Europe is suffering from the traffic of the strait slowing almost to a halt and yet they cannot do anything. China cannot do anything. The world is reliant on the US and Iran coming to some kind of conclusion, and America definitely has the capability of keeping this going.

>>65169889
Dogpiling was an inarful term on my part. Apologies. I don't expect anyone except maybe the Saudis and Emirates to join the U.S. and Israel in striking Iran. What is possible though is that the economic pressure gets so bad the rest of the world either diplomatically or via naval escorts forces Iran to open the Strait.

Once that boil is lanced, Iran will have lost most of its leverage in the conflict. I think it's important to reiterate is that Iran's entire strategy is to force the U.S. to capitulate by harming third countries, it has almost no means to harm the U.S. directly. Through happenstance, the U.S. is the main producer of most types of good that go through the Strait. While high prices do pinch U.S. consumers and farmers, they are also funneling into a boom in U.S. energy markets. Because the U.S. is a net energy exporter and its volumes aren't impeded, on net the economy is making money and looks more attractive for future buyers and investors since maritime trade with the U.S. isn't subject to a rogue-state veto.

As far as allies go, let's be honest there's no way they were going to help. Most western countries are led by lame-duck politicians that are incredibly risk-averse and can do nothing but uphold the status quo. If Trump told the likes of Starmer, Macron, and Merz, the Iranians would have gotten a heads up, and the decapitation strike would have never been possible.

>>65169894
the ironic part is that the war has probably allowed the IRGC a second wind.
4 month ago they had to brutally crush a mounting protest movment.
but now the nation is under attack, not the IRGC, the nation. and Iranians much like people all over the world when their nation gets attacked will rally around the flag. that flag ofc being held by the IRGC
furthermore it allows them to parry all those very real economic fuck ups with a simple "we told you the great satan was out to kill you and we'd have to therefore be willing to make sacrifices (ergo our corruption and incompetency). and look the great satan bombed a school full of little girls! just like I told you they would!"

>>65169902
I also think it's important to understand the sheer size of the battlespace. The distances involved are the equivalent of fighting across the entirety of the European continent. Once you appreciate the scale of the geography you realize how difficult it is to defend, and you start to realize maybe the U.S. has done a very good job, especially when the failures are the only thing publicized.

>>65169916
Judging by the fact they're calling in foreign militiamen to maintain order in the cities, I doubt it.

>>65169908
99.93% of self identified white Americans have zero non-European admixture. Stop being europoor emotionalist and treat people like the meat they are. Jews just happen to be spoiled meat full of worm cysts.

>>65169913
>better postition
true, but it also has a lot more interests around the world that may be on the firing line.
for the IRGC survival is the only option, there's no other interests it has to hold in the balance.
but for the US this is but one. an other one or a group of others may simply be worth more to the US.
>>65169915
I've already explained why there won't be third parties trying to force Iran, and you haven't even tried to dispute it.
but here you are again working under the assumption that third party intervention to force Iran is all but assured

>>65169925
They gotta be running out of Basji at this point

>>65169891
No they don't.

>>65169925
do you have source on that I haven't seen any reporting on foreign militias after the crushing of the protests

>>65169936
I did dispute it. At a given point the certain pain of having no fuel and fertilizer in Asia and Europe will make the risk of running the Strait more feasible. Countries will pressure Iran or actively protect their ships as they transit the Strait. Right now, when supply lines are bending but not breaking there's not much incentive to do this, but if Iran keeps up the pressure, something has to give eventually. At that point Iran either has to fire on a neutral country's warship, or lose leverage over the Strait, neither is a good option.

>>65169940
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/05/08/foreign-militias-brought-enforce-iran-crackdown/

>>65169944
you haven't adressed that those countries can't force Iran to do so and they know they can't do so. you assume that if things get bad enough they will just spawn in a navy, airforce and force projection capacity to do so by clicking on some HoI decission.
you also ignore the alternative, forcing the US by playing on other interests the US has in their countries.
they can do that, it doesn't require risking what ever military capacity they do have.
>fire on a neutral country's warship
again some HoI trigger thinking, what would that do to them?
they shoot at Singaporean ship what are they going to do to Iran that the US hasn't or can't do?

>>65169946
it would be nice if it wasn't pay walled, those guys have been active in Iran since the protests tough so unless there's something in that article I can't read due to it being paywalled that talks about them being expanded ect. that's not really something that's been changed due to the war

>>65169969
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/foreign-militias-brought-enforce-iran-224238584.html

>>65169982
thank you
they are escalating the use of foreign militias

>>65169961
>you haven't adressed that those countries can't force Iran to do so and they know they can't do so
when Iran is being surrounded by not just America but also NATO itself, they're going to feel a bit more pressured. Europe is in no position to pull America away from Iran, and Iran is in no position to do so either.

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>>65169861
But will it happen before US political will to continue the war runs out?

>>65169861
So this is what they meant with 'spiritually russian'.

>>65169961
The IRGC's strategy is to shoot everyone and inflict global economic pain that will maybe sway America. However, that strategy requires wholesale slaughter of Iranian civilians, bombing civilian infrastructure in a dozen different neighboring countries, and shooting/stealing merchant ships from major economic powers around the globe.

My point being, the IRGC's strategy is self-isolating and proof-positive that they should never ever have a nuclear weapon. At a certain point international opinion is going to coalesce around two goals: opening the Strait and denuclearizing Iran. And at this point what cards does Iran have left? It will either have to cut bilateral transit deals and ease pressure on global commodities markets, losing its only leverage in the conflict; resume kinetic strikes and face the prospect of direct intervention from the Gulf states; make good on its threats and shoot at every ship trying to cross; or make a deal with Trump to give up its nukes. And that's assuming someone inside Iran doesn't get fed up and topple the regime.

Either way, the IRGC has boxed itself in, it has to hope the U.S. folds first, because this road has no good destinations for them.

>>65170082
That would be you, dear poster, rooting for the mass-murdering clerical regime. Your complementary sack of onions and conscription notice is in the mail.

>>65169831
Desu, I don't really care about the people of Iran. The people are always somewhat culpable for their government, if they actually hated it they'd cast it off.

Same deal with all the whinging over the German civvies we turned to paste during WWII. Sucks for them, sure, but try not letting anti-American retards run your country next time.

>>65170062
>>65170082
nonsense replies
>>65170081
yes

>>65170096
true

>>65170002
So, what happens when they run out of money to pay for the regime enforcers?

>>65170096
>all the whinging over the German civvies we turned to paste during WWII.
It's double retarded. They ASKED for total war and they got it.

>>65168971
So ore people you never heard about before are dead

>>65170144
That's generally how war works.

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>>65170141
>They ASKED for total war and they got it.
Who's they? Iran or Nazi Germany?

>>65169871
dumb newfag

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>>65170184

>>65169944
>>65170090
Other countries will simply pay the toll instead of trying to pressure iran.

>>65170348
And that doesn't solve Iran's problems, even assuming the U.S. allows tolled ships to go through and other countries play ball with the IRGC, because then gas prices go down and Iran loses its leverage while still being blockade. This is the IRGC'a fundamental problem, it's wedded itself to its ability to control a waterway that it relies on orders of magnitude more than the U.S.

>>65170348
Why would they they tolerate and financially support Iran's antics? It makes no sense.

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>>65170096
>The people are always somewhat culpable for their government
Every person of every peoples of every nation is solely and individually responsible for the type of government they have.

Yea, I realize the self-own with us having Orangzee in charge.

>>65170393
Cheetoman closed the southern border and engineered net negative migration. That alone makes him the single greatest leader the west has had in the 21st century.

>>65170398
and he's not a fucking rabid anti-gun retard like *every* single Democrat is

>>65170348
>just permanently pay more
countries have been invaded for less than that

>>65170392
What are they going to do about it?

>>65170090
>the IRGC's strategy is self-isolating
They were already as isolated as they could ever be.

>>65170436
Not really. They had major deals with gulf states hedging their bets.

>>65170436
They could trade via the sea prior

>>65169944
>Countries will pressure Iran
With what navy?
>or actively protect their ships
Again, with what navy?

Only the USN and the PLAN have enough surface combatants to run escorts constantly. The former is already on-theatre and the PLAN doesn't seem to want to be involved in this shitshow.

The RN and Marine Nationale are simply lacking in numbers and funds, the rest are irrelevant.

Conversely, they don't have any economic leverage because Iran is already sanctioned and cutoff from most if not all of the world's economy.

The only solution, and I do mean the only one, is for us to stop pussyfooting and bomb those brown savages to the stone age. Firebomb them until every valley and sandpit turns into sheets of glass that can be seen from space. Spray their crops and waterways with pesticides so noxious that if by some clerical error some manage to survive they'll have two extra chromosomes per generation. Carpet bomb their cities until they are parking lots. Drop carpet bombs with bomblets that look like candy. Use PGMs to bomb every single dam, well and water purification plant until they start to die of thirst and hunger then airdrop food relief contaminated with small pox, cholera, lassa, ebola, scarlet fever, bubonic plague and whatnot.

It is what they expect and what they need, so we should give it to them. Savages only understand savagery.

I'm a moderate, by the way.

>>65169861
They can keep lobbying explosive Doritos at the strait forever. They don't have to hit anything, just the remote possibility that something might get hit is enough to scare insurance companies (since they only exist to scam you rather than actually protect you).

>>65167864
>The tankers colliding and the Sentry are the big oofs.

IIRC it was one tanker shot down by a loitering 359 missile over Iraq and one tanker destroyed on the ground at the same airfield the E-3 was wrecked at.

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>>65170486
>They can keep lobbying explosive Doritos at the strait forever
Sure, bro

>>65170431
Not pay.

>>65170393
This is a hilariously stupid image.

>>65170496
They can be built in a cave by illiterate peasants and launched from literally anywhere for dimes on the dollar and they only need to launch one a week for insurance companies to get cold feet.

>>65170505
And deal with the economic consequences?

>>65170431
If they are smart, invest in alternative sources of energy.

>>65168824
The wall of big guns definitely have a fucking satellite assigned per rivet by YoOL2026AD

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>>65170576
This sounds like the perfect solution, desu. And the ragheads are stupid enough they might just keep falling for it.

>>65170548
>just deal with economic collapse for a deacde until you've fully transitioned to renewables

>>65170576
They have more experience dealing with mullahs and even domesticated a few so they know better.

>>65167829
Interesting. I didn't realise all the F15Es were from the Lakenheath squadron

>>65170582
>gayass fake hippy shit that doesn't work
No, you dumbfuck. Buy oil from someone else. Buy or reactivate coal mines and coal power plants until you build or reactive enough nuclear reactors.

Braindead hippy shit is one of the reasons we're in this retarded situation when there are enough alternatives that aren't gay and stupid.

>>65170541
Not drones capable of threatening a commercial tanker, you brain dead retard.

>>65170532
You can tell it was made by someone who thinks food comes from a supermarket.

>>65170431
join the coalition to fucking kill them lmao

>>65170541
then they will either become the most isolated and desolate country in history or be killed. They cannot sustain themselves by constantly firing at ships.

>>65170505
>>65170626
>>65170640
https://www.reuters.com/investigations/iran-is-consolidating-control-hormuz-with-island-checkpoints-diplomatic-deals-2026-05-20/
they're already paying tolls

>>65170647
So Iran doesn't even have the balls to actually close the Strait?

>>65170660
Why would they do that when they can get money from it instead?

>>65170665
$150K a ship is fucking peanuts. This just seems like Iran cucking out to its masters to keep the goods flowing. Which utterly self defeats its entire strategy.

>>65170552
north korea is mountainous like iran, who do you suppose taught iran how to hide stuff in mountains?

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>>65170576
why do you think surrender is in the vocabulary of a twelver shi'ite?

>>65170660
notice the US hasn't been that concerned about the tolls.
charging tolls does not give iran any breathing room for the lack of oil storage, which is what they really need to eke through the ceasefire and blockade. tolls are just a sideshow for now.

>>65170615
Stacey Abrams?

>>65170605
They don't even need to hit them, you fucking spastic. The mere risk is enough to dissuade insurance companies. We're seeing it live. Turn the telly and see for yourself, if you can even manage that.

>>65170640
>then they will either become the most isolated and desolate country in history
They're already three quarters of the way there.
>or be killed
If only, but that's not "humane" or some bullshit.

>>65170605
>Not drones capable of threatening a commercial tanker
you do know oil is very flammable right

>>65170711
Not really actually, cude oil is fairly inert. And VLCCs are double hulled. Some cave -built drone isn't going to blow up an entire crude carrier.

>>65170701
War insurance rates are actually only about 2.5% cargo. Thats like 100 times what they were but not unbearable. It's really just risk aversion from crews.

>>65170732
>Thats like 100 times what they were but not unbearable.
Right. Peachy.

>>65170743
It's not "peachy" but it's a misconception that insurance is unavailable. You can get a policy. Captains just don't want to be domed by the a shahed so many aren't sailing.

>>65168072
Idk why anyone would think this?
There semites by definition slippery
Every piece of media i have seen gives them a rather fruity disposition.

Perhaps this anon fell for the push up truck?

>>65170576
No, the issue is that nobody in Iran wants to surrender, and the chain of command is decentralised on purpose. The kikes can kill as many of their leaders as they want, but nothing is going to change. Eventually they and their American subjects have to face the music or become international pariahs (even more than they already are) by using nukes.

>>65171034
If they nuke you, no one will care, ackmad.

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>>65170732
>War insurance rates are actually only about 2.5% cargo.
0.0% chance you'll get that rate if you intend to cross the strait

>>65171036
I appreciate that you're slightly retarded, but I'll try to explain the problem in a way that you might understand:

Iran is not a nuclear power. If Israel or US unilaterally uses nuclear weapons on them, that poses the following problem:

Iran is allied with Russia, forcing Russia to either respond with nuclear weapons, or stand down, leading to:
a) nuclear war and likely the end of the world, or
b) the world witnessing that a nuclear weapon was used without a nuclear response

If a), then we're all dead. If b), the world will conclude that being under the nuclear umbrella of a nuclear power is not a guarantee of safety. This will immediately and inevitably lead to massive nuclear proliferation. Japan, South Korea, Saudis, Ukraine, Taiwan, Canada, South Africa, Turkey, etc. are going to kickstart nuclear weapons programs. So, we're all dead, except maybe not immediately.

People are not stupid, and Israel and the United States are already hated all over the world.

>>65171052
Didn't read your hallucinations; no one gives a shit about you, you will get bombed and will die.

>>65171034
Literal fanwank

>>65171046
That's the rate in Hormuz, dumbass.

>>65171066
Ok. Feel free to screencap the post and refer back to it every week or so. Maybe one day you'll be able to admit that the US has turned into a paper tiger that nobody takes seriously.

>>65171079
Oh boy would Anon look silly!

>>65171079
Wely implessivu I Jackie Chanson of viyalat Europistan now believe in communism

>>65171095
That's not the point. Europe and the US are having a divorce, and the US is going to suffer for it, that much is true. But the point is that Israel and US are incapable of winning the fight against Iran.

>>65170014
>NATO itself
North Atlantic Treaty Organization
please point to me where Iran attacked on of it's member in the territory the treaty applies to and the US or other member invoking art.5 to request aid.
furthermore the US keeps harping on and on about how it's NATO allies can't do shit without them. how is banking on them to come and bail the USN out going to work exactly?
>Europe is in no position to pull America away from Iran
just ban all US military flights from your airspace and you've cut the US's ability to sustain their deployment around the Gulf.
this would ofc put a lot of strain on their relationship with the US and so isn't worth it until things get dire.

>>65171101
Point is you're a 70iq shill pajeet

>>65171101
>Europe and the US are having a divorce
in 2 years whoever is the president after trump will say "sowwy europe" and everyone will forget about trump 2. european leaders do not have the stomach to become an independent world power and will gladly look for any excuse to not invest in their own defense, especially when they're already having trouble funding their own welfare state. the only way that this doesn't happen is if vance becomes president which is extremely unlikely because the only anti-europe faction in america other than maga is retarded thiel astroturfed internet right wingers who screech about "globohomo"

>>65170090
>self-isolating
annon the US had already isolated them from just about every other country on the world trough it's sanctions regime.
the few countries it still had economic and diplomatic relations with worth mentioning, are still having those since they are on the same "side" vis à vis the US.
>At a certain point international opinion is going to
international opinion has repeatedly voted for Israel to give up all land past it's 1967 border. has international opinion made Israel give up that land? no, why? because it has a superpower backing them, so does Iran.
the only way you force them to back down is by getting the chinese and to lesser extent the russians to pressure them, good luck with that.

I'd want to add one final bit to the idea of third countries forcing open Hormuz.
having a navy that can power project and an air force worth it's salt is very, very expensive.
as such only large wealthy countries can afford them.
those same countries because they are wealthy are also able to weather the rising energy cost better than others. they have strategic reserves can let onto the market, they can lower the high taxes they have on energy and even if they don't do any mitigation at all. the part of their economy directly exposed to the higher fuel prices ect. is smaller than those of poor and middle income countries. furthermore when you go and look at the consumption basket of their citizens, products that a re directly impacted by higher energy costs are less than half, in middle income and poor countries that's over 2/3 to 4/5.
so their politicians don't have to fear being deposed.
the global brown on the other hand will risk undergoing Sir Lanka levels of civil unrest.
places like Egypt, Jordan, the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Pakistan, India ect. ect.
they are the most exposed but least able to intervene.
the US would also prefer these not fall apart due to civil unrest over cost of living issues.

>>65170379
the USN has already allowed Chinese ships filled to the brim with Iranian oil to sail right past them.
why wouldn't it allow say a Japanese ship full of oil from one of the US's Gulf allies that's just paid the toll?

>>65171052
>Iran is allied with Russia, forcing Russia to either respond with nuclear weapons
Bitch, you're delusional if you think there is a world where Puccia will put their neck on the line for fucking Iran. They're not even diverting air defenses or planes for them, they do not give a shit.

>>65169770
>be iran two years ago
>have a few hundred kilos of enriched uranium
>be iran today
>still have a few hundred kilos of enriched uranium but now you also have the strait of hormuz
great strategy guys

>>65170647
>We have reasons to believe that Iranians turned a blind eye to the transit of Agios Fanourios I, following pressure from Iraq and Vietnam
lmao this far from "Everyone's starting to pay Iran". Your own article admits this

>>65167884
>Are they going to publicly beat him and then execute him in public?
>Does he get extradited and stand trail?

He wont get extradited. Most likely forced into early retirement. Maybe a few years house arrest/probation

>>65171052
>he thinks Russia will use nooks for Iran
lmaoooo

>>65171101
>the US is going to suffer for it, that much is true
Europe is going to suffer much worse

>>65170094
>The war is about protecting the people from its regime
>We're going to make a deal
Pick one.

>>65171125
>please point to me where Iran attacked on of it's member in the territory the treaty applies to and the US or other member invoking art.5 to request aid
either too retarded or too young to know how many members of NATO helped against Iraq. I didn't literally mean all of NATO, but a huge number of NATO members.
>just ban all US military flights from your airspace
yurop will never commit to this ever

>>65171287
>Europe is going to suffer much worse
Europe will manage
it's the thurdies and to a lesser extent asia that are going to get hit the hardest

>>65171154
in other words Iran has given the US the ability to control China's oil imports

>>65171255
>still have a few hundred kilos of enriched uranium
where

>>65171302
>in other words Iran has given the US the ability to control China's oil imports
>this is a new thing
annon just how stupid/new are you to geo-politics?
the US always had the ability to cut chinas maritime trade due to china being contained behind the first island chain
the interesting thing here is the US saying it will block any ship carrying Iranian oil, but then letting Chinese ships carrying Iranian oil trough.
the US has the capacity, but it doesn't want to use it.
showing that for the US not starting a confrontation with China is more important than imposing it's blockade on Iran.

>>65171296
>many members of NATO helped against Iraq
less than half
>I didn't literally mean all of NATO
then why use NATO?
>but a huge number of NATO members
please tell me who's going to be part of this and why you'd think they would and what they bring to the table. then we can compare it to the capacity the US has and see how that stacks up.
>yurop will never commit to this ever
several countries already have and they did the same with Iraq.
the US even had a freakout and tryied to rename french fries to FREEDOM fries because the frogs weren't fooled, didn't take part and refused the US transit rights.
it isn't a matter of would or would not never mind would never. but about how much the different players in this game think that they are going to suffer going by option a, b, c, or d.
It's all on a gradient and we don't know where those points are, the countries probably don't even know so it's all a gray zone. but we do know that those points are there and at some point those choices will be made

>>65171079
>>65171101
Implessive

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>>65167829
>E-3 Sentry AWACS damaged
yeah, just damaged lmao
muttniks are zigger tier propagandists

~$4B traded to destroy ~$1 trillion dollars

>>65171079
>paper tiger
Sounds like utter thirdie projection

>>65171351
It was fun though. Also turdie humiliation is priceless.

>>65171154
No they haven't. No Iranian oil has gotten through the blockade. Iran is exporting oil to China via land routes, but it's not much.

>>65171101
Yeah America forced Europe to stagnate their economies, get addicted to Russian oil & gas, and cut.military spending to the.bone to resettle refugees (somehow all men aged 16-34).

Get real. In less than a month the U.S. killed Iran's extand leadership, sunk their navy, and bombed their military industrial base. All the IRGC can do now is hide in caves and shoot at civilians. It's pathetic.

>>65168755
You can't compare it like that, you gotta compare Ukraine vs Russia and Iran vs USA. The USA is considerably richer and bigger than Iran, than Russia is to Ukraine.

>>65171310
so now China is fully reliant on the US. That's my point. Now the US has a reason to blockade Iran.
>the interesting thing here is the US saying it will block any ship carrying Iranian oil, but then letting Chinese ships carrying Iranian oil trough
similar to Iran no doubt; saying you will completely close something but then turning the cheek for some things so that there isn't complete chaos. Even Iran knows it cannot completely stop traffic hence why they have let many ships through. Whatever the case, America can outlive this far longer than Chyna.

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>>65168918
>there is no other World Protagonist after this, we just devolve into endless downhill shitstorm all the way to human extinction after America is removed from its position as top dog - nobody else is going to rise, we're just all going to fall.
Cool story, pretty sure that was what Romans thought when their empire went to shit.

>>65171324
>less than half
the biggest friggin members
>please tell me who's going to be part of this and why you'd think they would and what they bring to the table
probably France and the UK who already seem to be wanting to send ships lol

>>65171400
>this thing that was true before the war is still true after the war
>that mean that the war changed this
no annon it shows that you hadn't heard or thought of it because you are uninformed and uninterested.
>cannot completely stop traffic
they don't have to to put a lot of hurt on the global economy
>let many ships through
less than a single pre-war day in a month isn't many, it's a trickle.

>>65171404
It took almost 1200 years for an empire to stabilize even a portion of the empire, in between it was a lot of wars and infighting.

>>65171405
>the biggest friggin members
the UK wasn't and isn't the biggest
>already seem to be wanting to send ships lol
you mean the France that US hasn't asked to fly over it to ferry aircraft to the ME because they already know what the answer would be?
the France that refused to take part in Desert storm 2?
the France that's the biggest producer of nuclear energy in Europe?
but still the French and UK have 3 carriers with less capacity than a US super carrier.
the US has 11 super carriers, the fuck are the bongs and frogs going to do that the USN can't?
and again risking their limited navies to force Hormuz open is a lot more risky and would impose a lot larger risk than nudging the US to just settle for less.

>>65171375
If Iran's navy is sunk and their industrial capacity is shot, why are American ships not escorting ships through the Strait? Should be an easy mission for the strongest military in the world, especially after the grand victory in March/April.

>>65171485
Iran is holding onto a handful of mines and missiles. Its like a police standoff where a guy with a revolver and 3 bullets holes up in a motel surrounded by cops with ARs.

>>65171485
Because they're not our ships. The USN escorted American ships out a couple weeks ago. There were literally two American flagged vessels sailing in the Persian Gulf. Maybe half dozen other in drydock or refit, but not bailable. The Strait is the rest of the world's problem.

>>65171390
Which is why the USA managed to wipe out Iran's leadership, gain air superiority, sink its navy and blockade its main sea route in the span of a few weeks at the cost of 13 lives. Meanwhile Russia is four years in and hasn't accomplished any of that.

>>65171514
what's more, these weren't just regular american ships, they were commercial cargo carriers contracted by the department of war to carry cargo for the us military exclusively. it's not often mentioned.

>>65171609
They were part of the merchant reserve (not sure that's the name) basically civilian vessels that the government may use in the event of conflict. That being said, I don't think those ships were doing anything for the government when they left the Strait.