Have there ever been successful strategic counter attacks to counter attacks? Or is it more often just a last dying gasp?
Operation Bagration
>>65168309That's more of a continuing counteroffensive.
>>65168302list 5 instances of a "counter attacks to counter attacks"
>>65168313
>>65168323Yes, after Barbarossa failed the USSR response can basically be painted with one brush. Hence the original question about a strategic counteroffensive against a strategic counteroffensive, using Kursk as a failure example. As in actual tide turning more than once.
>>65168337>using Kursk as a failure exampleTwo mistakes1. "Kursk" was not an offensive, it's a battle within Operation Citadel2. Citadel was not a "strategic counteroffensive against a strategic counteroffensive", it was just an offensive met by counter-offensives
>>65168302Guadalcanal and the Battle of Atlanta.
>>65168351Bullshit. Next thing the Battle of the Bulge wasn't a failed strategic counteroffensive. You already know what I'm describing, I'm asking for a historic example instead of pedantry.(now that I think of pedantry, it kind of doesn't count either if another generation takes up after a cold war like with Carthage or the England/France.)
The Red Army at Kursk had an easy time of it, even leaving the Steppe Front as a strategic reserve and launching an early counter-breakthrough towards Oryol on the northern front. For Germany, there were no lost victories.
>>65168364how can you criticise pedantry while creating non-existent terms you're unable to clearly define like " counter attacks to counter attacks", as though every war doesn't devolve into exchanging offensives
>>65168379Nigga, has anyone ever started a war, was winning, then get sternly rebuked across the entire front, then went on to win?
>>65168388Winter War
>>65168405Fair.
>>65168388Vietnam
>>65168450No.
>>65168370if you can call hundreds of thousands of casualties an easy time
>>65168388Polish–Soviet War comes to mind.
>>65168351Could the 3rd battle of Kharkov as a precursor to Kursk be considered that? Von Manstein waiting until the Russian counteroffensive against the Germans to pause before hitting them damned hard which helped provide the base for the Kursk offensive.
>>65168302>successful strategic counter attackmaybe Imphal, El Alamein, Cannae, Gaugamela?
>>65168302What does this even mean?Yes there are shitloads of successful offensives after having absorbed an offensive>>65168309
>>65168302>strategic counter attacks to counter attacksif you have the reserves to counter attack the counter attack why weren't they committed to the original attack?
>>65168388Does Korea count?
>>65171433>>65171458>>65168302and to clarify, basically every breakthrough ever gets stopped by a counter attack of some kind eventually. so on a tactical level "counter attacks to counter attacks" and "counter attacks to counter attacks to counter attacks" occur constantly from the second the initial positions get broken until both sides are spent and activity settles down into a new phase of positional fighting or disengagement. but that's tactical and operational scale stuffstrategically, you either attack (attack) or defend (commit reserves in counterattacks). then if your attack stalls you need tactical and operational counterattacks to prevent the enemy from rolling you up but that's still part of the same strategic offensive posture.
>>65168388Iraq vs Iran, kind ofA number of theaters in the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic warsBrits in North Africa in WW2the axis conquest of Greece in WW2Denmark, Russia and Saxony/Poland in the Great Northern Wara number of the Roman-Persian wars played out with so much back and forth that I'm sure at least one of them retroactively fits this descriptionbut in practice most of the "counter attacks to counter attacks" are just new offensive operations after periods of positional warfare or inactivity, when the side that got rebuffed masses new forces and attacks again
>>65171458>if you have the reserves to counter attack the counter attack why weren't they committed to the original attack?timing and recovery, usuallywhat was the 101st and 82nd doing before being shoved into Bastogne? recovering and rearming while waiting for winter to end so they could join the spring offensive
