I remember when the move Fury (2014) came out there was a lot of debate over Brad Pitt’s character’s use of a captured German STG-44. We see a lot of captured rifle use in Ukraine, most commonly we see Ukrainian SOF and Territorial Defense using captured AK-12s (the squad leader in 2000 meters to andriivka comes to mind) to but there’s a few videos floating around telegram of Russian SOF running captured UAR-15s and Colt 933s in operations. This has made me wonder is there any good documentation of enemy weapons being captured and repurposed by allied forces in WWII?
>gets pissy over a German conscript wearing an American coat>uses an Stg44I get the point, but it still annoyed me immensely
>>65220579basically anywhere a shortage of ammo appeared, you used captured supplies, and supplies were low everywhere
>>65220585ah yes the famously well supplied Stg44
>>65220579It’s pretty well documented for the Germans on both frontsThey captured so many Soviet stockpiles of ammunition and arms that they started giving German military designations for numerous Soviet weapons. They did the same thing with armored vehicles by pressing Soviet and French tanks into service. The Chinese also used captured Japanese weapons in Manchuria.Also in naval warfare navies press enemy ships into service if they capture them with little damage. The French, Germans, and Russians all used each other ships if they captured them.
>>65220591there is such a thing called: guns-that-aren't-the-stg44strange, i know. i've had to come to terms with this myself after many years
>>65220579>This has made me wonder is there any good documentation of enemy weapons being captured and repurposed by allied forces in WWII?Not small arms on any scale. Contrary to keyboard warrior folklore, axis small arms were not held in especially high esteem by allied soldiers. An STG44, for example, was heavier than any individual weapon fielded by the allies - it was MORE than twice the weight of the nearest US equivalent, the M1 Carbine. Why the fuck would you want to carry a 5.2kg brick when you were issued a 2.6kg carbine?
>>65220585>anywhere a shortage of ammo appeared>All those times the western allies faced logistics problems.This website is just fucking bots at this point.
>>65220579Both Russia and Ukraine can manufacture and supply 5.45 and 5.56 in mass quantities, in WWII the US wasn’t manufacturing and supplying 8mm Kurtz in any large numbers, if at all. If allied soldiers used StGs they should have had to rely exclusively on captured ammunition. For a tanker that not as much of an issue because your main weapon is the tank, but for your average infantryman it probably wouldn’t be worth the trouble taking it in to battle. If I remember correctly, I thing the StG-44was issued with like 4 mags or something, so let’s say this GI gets lucky and captures an intact StG-44, all its magazines, and maybe a hundred to two hundred rounds of spare 8mm Kurtz (I don’t think they were issued with a lot of spare rounds, but honestly can’t remember) you’ve got maybe 300 rounds of ammo total if you’re super lucky and 4 mags that might work (mags were reported to have issues with quality, especially late war). Sure I’m certain a few sergeants or officers carried them, but I imagine most were kept at the rear line as trophies.
>>65220583One is perfidy (a shoot on sight offense) and the other is using weapons available (no fucking idea how he would be able to get 3-4 mags of 8mm kurz.)
>>65220701>perfidyNot how it happened in the movie, the German was just part of a platoon or so dug into a treeline. No attempt at deception whatsoever
Soldiers are retarded and always think the enemy has better/cooler guns then them. They also carry around like 6 knives and multiple handguns just in case they need them which is objectively dumb
>>65220579>any good documentation of enemy weapons being captured and repurposed by allied forces in WWII?Not really, There was no reason for American troops to use German/Japanese equipment except in ad-hoc situations. Like over 90% of the photos with Allied troops with captured equipment is for war trophies or stockpiles. There are no Allied designations for captured equipment for use like the Germans did and such a massive scale like this anon pointed out>>65220655There was simply no reason to use these captured weapons because the Allies never had the logistical issues that the Axis had
If you consider China and Mongolia as part of the allies, there was plenty of captured weapon usage. Militia units and Partisans in the Soviet Union occasionally issued captured weapons (some were stockpiled from WW1 and the Russian Civil War though). Soviets famously liked the mp40 and you can find quite a few photos of their use.
>>65220844Yeah no american tanker would ever be poorly supplied or use an STG
>>65220604They captured so much Soviet shit that they ended up rechambering some weapons.
Soldiers collect a lot of shit from their enemies, including guns, and use them if they perceive an advantage or just feel like it. A hot shit TD could easily have the connections to trade cigarettes or whatever for some StG ammo if he wanted it. War is not a strategy game where you click individual soldier's equipment from your logistics pool.
>>65220604Germs at war are still mental bureaucrats; When they inevitably capture rape broom but slightly more bent than the ones before, it WILL be catalogued and assigned it's new and unique designation beginning with Knüppel, followed by numbers, and ending with (r); because as an object it is it's right.
>>65220579Lots of accounts of MG34s and MG42s being captured and used, makes a lot of sense seeing how shit a lot of allied MGs were at the time.
>>65220745But it is perfidy, you've got to be a UNIFORMED COMBATANT. He wasn't a UNIFORMED COMBATANT. Otherwise the entire unit could have worn American greatcoats and you'd go>Well shit, that's fineIt isn't. Also, the entire point of the scene was that the guy was technically, by the rules, committing perfidy, even though the argument was he was just cold and using clothes he had scavenged and because whatshisface was firing to scare and not kill, he became a liability to the entire crew, so forced him to kill and have blood on his hands and so the taboo had been removed so fucking shoot to kill next time.This is then, SURPRISE, narratively circled around at the end when the scared greenhorn German doesn't report him under the tank or shoot him himself.
>>65220579>>65220655>>65220844>except in ad-hoc situationsthis is a distinction that needs clarificationthere is a big difference between capturing so much kit and ammo that, like the Germans, you actually needed to issue model numbers for the purpose of parts and ammo requisitionandcapturing a single MG42 and a couple belts of ammo so you just use it until you run out of ammo and then stash it away for the regimental museum, or scrap itall soldiers did the latter all the time
>>65220701>>65221481You're so fucking retarded you don't even know what perfidy means. The act of wearing an enemy uniform isn't the issue, it's wearing it while engaging said enemy in their uniform. Neither of wich gives you the right to execute them anyway unless you consider them spies like in the BotB wich was wrong then too. But unlike those guys he only wore a US coat with the rest of his gear being obviously german. Wardaddy isn't supposed to be in the right.
>>65220583>gets pissy over a German conscript wearing an American coatWhen did he do that? What did he do to the conscript?>>65220701It's not perfidy if he wasn't trying to masquerade as American>>65221481You're an idiotThe actual convention definition of perfidy is “acts inviting the confidence of an adversary to lead him to believe that he is entitled to, or obliged to accord, protection under the rules of international law applicable in armed conflict, with intent to betray that confidence”.Not just "wears enemy coat".It's piss easy to establish lack of intent to deceive when the guy was literally in a GERMAN trench armed with GERMAN equipment and otherwise wearing GERMAN uniform and kit besides the coats, dickhead
>>65220655PUTIN?!
>>65220604These weapons were mostly issued to security units or garrison forces, although by 1942 apparently most of Germany's motor transport on the Eastern Front was just whatever vehicle with 4 wheels and an internal combustion engine they could pilfer from across occupied Europe. If you were a garrison troop in Normandy or the Balkans it's entirely possible that your standard issue weapon was a Mosin Nagant, your armoured support was some interwar Czech Skoda and your artillery brigade was using captured French guns. IIRC the Germs still had Czech and French factories make spare parts for their vehicles and weapons during the war even if they forced them to produce German designed platforms.
>>65220655What kind of fuckin uniform is this guy wearing? That frogskin neck buff and that waistcoast/sleeveless jacket are throwing me off
>>65220655i like how he is holding it like a fish he has caught lol
