/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /bag/, Adept launched the Emperor... again. Some cops bought Protech 2230-1s, Botach flipped some shit including some cheapazz plates, and a boomer sold 60 Protech X-CAL LPs.

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.177
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat:
/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)
Budget: Hesco L211 or T212
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HW
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)
Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept Emperor
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 / 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (M993+)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)

>>65458300
You want to post some cool nylon infographics? Let's make this a comfy thread.

>>65457875
>Fucking Brotach and maybe an hours worth of Google will hook you up with a decent domestic plate setup for Chinesium prices 50% of the time.
Not gonna lie though, the A-grade Chinese beat Botach's used plates on specs at least 75% of the time. Gilliam 1635 is a lot lighter than the Paraclete 10079, Gilliam 1023 > Protech 2014G. Six M2AP versus just one. $400 a set versus $200 on that one though.
Militech's RF2 SiC is nearly 2lb lighter than the Protech 2120-5 Hudsongunner is selling and both stop A1. $450 a set versus IIRC $275. The Chinese are rolling PE a lot cheaper than American companies make fiberglass backers, and SiC for them is $30 more versus Alumina while for American companies it's hundreds of dollars.

>>65458302
There are infographics in the emporium and reserve.

File: 862d914dd487ffe3c18a6bba2(...).png (616 KB, 1020x865)

616 KB PNG

Is it better to run side plates like in picrel or to the center?

>>65458369
Towards the front since it reduces front plate - side plate gap , but your dude in that pic makes a compelling case for 6x8s.

>INFOGRAPHIX
>I MUST POST INFOGRAPHIX
you guys are so fucking gay

>>65458582
>no infographics were posted
schizo temu sheetzo

>>65458791
>Chinese plates are fine
>no.
Elaborate, because they're mogging Highcom and RMA at those price points right now.

>>65458854
>elaborate
Ive been elaborating this whole thread. You either didn't read it or are ignoring the parts you cannot debate about. OMT: I dont finance or beta test gommie gear, and Im not buying plates.

>>65458994
Sensing some unwarranted hostility here.
>or beta test gommie gear, and Im not buying plates
1. Read the test reports. You're not beta testing gear if the reports are good and line up with what they're selling.
I'll note that Gilliam actually drop tests most of his shit while RMA likes to skip that test in theirs.
2. If test reports don't cut it, then the only thing separating Chinese and American stuff is the NIJ CPL and lately a lot of American companies have been blowing that off.

Like it or not, the Chinese dominate the budget plate scene unless you have oddball requirements or you're super hard up and can't afford Gilliam / Militech, ergo you need to either look at used Americana or B-grade Chinesium like Jinwudun.
>and Im not buying plates.
So if you're facing off against another guy with a rifle, what's the insurance?

>>65457875
>He said he was from east FL, where there's little restrictions on anything. Think he's ragebaiting since this is effectively /bag/ and he doesn't want armor.
Think you're right on that one. It's kinda goofy to write plates off entirely when a pair of 10X12 Level IIIs is five pounds or less if you're willing to concede M855.
With a pair of Hesco 3801s you're sub-4lb, but they're pricey.

>>65458300
these gear info graphics are like 7-8 years out of date, but the armor ones are up to date. What gives?

>>65459076
>these gear info graphics are like 7-8 years out of date
They're updated versions of the old /gq/ infographics and nylon doesn't advance that quickly. metametametameta doesn't matter that much if shit just works.
>but the armor ones are up to date
We have like five resident armor autists in this general.

Damn some Hesco 3801s made it to Ukraine.
https://reibert.info/lots/broneplita-hesco-3801-klas-5-dstu.1334143/
Interestingly, this is an earlier, made in 2023, NIJ RF1 version only good for 3x 7.62x51mm M80, not 6x as required by Level III. 1.76lb for a 10x12.

Holy shit, is that how far the "tacticool" crowd has taken things?

File: 1772762937468895.gif (3.96 MB, 250x250)

3.96 MB GIF

I want gloves for shooting should I get those tacticool shooting gloves with the plastic bits in them or would just plain black leather gloves work?

>>65459014
>Read the test reports. You're not beta testing gear
If you dont think youre not bankrolling and adding data points buying and using goomie gear then you simply do not have the mental wattage to have a converstion with me. How the fuck do you think they are able to improve them and lower the cost; Alchemy?
>So if you're facing off against another guy with a rifle
I shoot him. Repeatedly. Thats where the training comes in. If its a ranged attack I use cover and bug the fuck out of there. Thats where the cardio comes in. I think you put way more capabilites in armor than they actually possess. If you allow some drugged up tard to mag dump on you its over. Armor or not.

>>65459029
>you're willing to concede M855.
Fucking lol.

File: plate check.webm (1.67 MB, 1280x720)

1.67 MB WEBM

>>65459269
>I think you put way more capabilites in armor than they actually possess.
It uhhhh stops bullets from hitting your uhhhh vital organs which uhhh does happen when youre in like a gun fight
>Thats where the training comes in
You don't train
>If its a ranged attack
lol

>>65459300
Im not a cop or a soldier you simpleton. Im not walking around with a rifle and plates. Or camo drones or nods.
>lol
So if someone starts shooting at you in a ranged attack youre going to stick around and start shooting back? lol

>>65459292
>out of a full length barrel
Kinda important given M855... in urban areas... is kinda going slow out of an ARP.
Keep in mind it's not M995 and won't be dynamite against PE even at super low velocity.
>If you dont think youre not bankrolling and adding data points buying and using goomie gear then you simply do not have the mental wattage to have a converstion with me
Man I love angry ad homs.
>How the fuck do you think they are able to improve them and lower the cost
Ten guys buying plates from an American dude making plates in his garage using Chinese materials is not bankrolling the PRC's entire body armor program. Fucking kek.
>>65459356
I summon a pokemon with a ranged attack.

>>65459404
>Kinda important
If youre wearing rifle plates in the us and they dont stop m855 you are a massive goober.
>Ten guys buying plates
>garage
>bankrolling the PRC's entire body armor program.
This looks like the closest you will ever come to conceding my point.
>Fucking kek.
Indeed.

>>65459404
>American dude making plates in his garage
Gilliam Arms was a meme, and like all memes, autists took it seriously
people buying Gilliam armor are like the people who bought nuggets after they were $400+
they can't distinguish between meme and reality

>>65459478
>If youre wearing rifle plates in the us and they dont stop m855 you are a massive goober.
Good news. M855 out of a 9" chode barrel goes really slow and PE plates may be able to handle that!
Or, get this. You can upgrade to plates which can for 8lb a set or less for under $500. Thank you China.
There is no reason to concede this completely as you are if faced with rifle threats.
>>65459504
Elaborate, because you didn't on this last thread. Their test reports and youtube tests are robust (as YT tests may be...) at this point. Know any other company dealing XSAPI+ protection for $628 a pair?

>>65459478
Additionally, get this, armor plates are in fact easy to make.

>>65458300
What SAPI backers are the best for the price? I can score some USMC surp SAPI size large backers for $150 but I’m a poorfag and trying to Jew my way to something cheaper that’ll still work.

>>65459249
If you're on a budget, get some cheap leather driving gloves. If you're willing to spend a little more, get a pair of Dent's leather driving gloves. They're high quality and will last longer.

Alright, time for a more detailed reply since I have some time.
>>65459269
This post shows a fundamental misunderstanding of armor composition. Gilliam's most popular plate is the OA+ RF2+, it is a 2x2" Alumina tile array with a 1" cheat ring and a foam backer. Even on ebay alone he's sold over a thousand, and that's not his main operation. There is no innovation with that one. You aren't adding data points to something the Chinese have been making for 20+ years.
The 2x2 tile array is their go-to bread and butter. You aren't bankrolling anything either.
With Adept, given their shady sourcing and very advanced ceramics, yeah, you're bankrolling something.
>I think you put way more capabilites in armor than they actually possess
To address this point specially, the point of plates is to provide protection to a vital box where otherwise you'd very likely be fucked in the field.
There's nobody here thinking a pair of plates makes them iron man. The point of armor is bullet and fragmentation insurance. You MIGHT be able to skirt by without it, but as seen with anon's example in >>65459300 it's a lot better to have it when you need it than need it and not have it. People in Ukraine are dolled up in frag armor. ESAPIs have scored countless saves in the sandbox.
The trick is striking the right balance between weight / concealment and protection based on THE AREA.
>>65459292
Would you rather a Hesco L210 that loses to .308 or fast M193? No free lunch. You can concede M855 if you know your area very well or have extremely tight weight allowances. This gets you hilariously light plates. Those 3801-2023s are 1.76lb.
However, if you're expecting a proper fight then the go to rating is minimum M80 + M855A1. Contingency plates should be III + IV full bore. Tungsten isn't needed unless shit's really gone to pot.
>>65459478
>If youre wearing rifle plates in the us and they dont stop m855 you are a massive goober.
Mission dictates gear. Mission dictates armor.

>>65459640
Are you attempting to back SAPI family plates or do you need IIIA for ICW IIIAs, because those are two distinct sidegrade ratings.

>>65459643
>and a foam backer
Meant PE here, lol

>>65459645
I’m backing ESAPIs, I found some Rev Gs for a good price. Even at $150 extra, these Large ESAPIs+Backers will be lighter/better than anything else for what I’ve spent. But every extra dollar saved is a dollar used to start the NVG fund.

>>65459654
Good news is that ESAPIs are really forgiving on the soft. Buffman has gotten good results using shitty ass Chinese PE IIIA (even scoring a 7.62x51 Swiss P AP stop in soft with an XSAPI).
The tricky bit is that you want SAPI Large. Militech can deal, as can Gilliam. Price check them versus those backers.

>>65459641
https://www.amazon.com/Damascus-DFK300-Frisker-Leather-Resistant/dp/B00164TI48
What about something like this? I kind of don't like the look of driving gloves they always looked kinda faggy to me

>>65459654
There's also these from Midwest. Same price as your SAPI backers, about, but IIIA.
https://midwestarmor.com/products/mass-iiia-soft-plate-backers/?
The crux of the issue is that milspec backers are like a IIA, roughly, except with added fragmentation ratings. Your plate already does a lot more than that, frag-wise. IIIA adds .44 magnum (II adds .357) so you're looking at better BFD mitigation as a start with proper IIIA.
Downside is things might get a little hinky if you're running the REV. Gs against rounds which perforate it completely and fragments have to be caught in the soft armor. Those would be especially hot M2AP for one example, in which case maybe keep a second set of "contingency" plates in case threats like that get more common. They will inevitably because of hybrid cases getting more common. If you can find them, Protech 2230-1s.

Also, not to over-option you, have you considered a BALCS setup instead of plate + backer?

>>65459696
I’m the anon that posted the MS Paint armor set up a few threads ago, I have everything now short of the side soft 6”x10.5”. Have the AVS, pouches, ESBIs, ordered the ESAPIs, just staring down the soft armor right now.
The parody of this is Crye brand 6”x10.5” seems to be the cheapest right now kek

>>65459719
It's really a showdown between the Midwest panels and the actual SAPI backers. Your call. What do you want more, frag test requirements or IIIA?
Push comes to shove if the ESAPIs fail or have to be ditched to cut weight, the IIIAs are still... IIIA. Standalone frag means less CONUS than OCONUS.
Bad news is that you might be waiting with Midwest.
>Crye brand 6”x10.5”
Yeah Crye stuff can be cheap sometimes, it's kinda weird. They only really have an ultra premium rep with their old Ceradyne collabs.

>>65459249
Get Victos gloves they are cheap enough and work well. Normal leather gloves lack dexterity you want with shooting and using your gear.

>>65459684
They'll work but won't be as comfortable as the driving style gloves which are made to breathe better on your skin.
Also you can get Victos gloves as >>65459767 suggested if you don't mind the tacticool style stuff, and they'll work well.

>>65459643
>To address this point specially, the point of plates is to provide protection to a vital box
I wore 3a body armor for years. Sometimes for 16 hours at a time. I was glad to have it. I am well aware of what armor does and does not do.
>otherwise you'd very likely be fucked in the field.
There is no field for me. Just the everyday bs with the occasional natural disaster. I use the gear that is useful for me in my situation. Im not going to start training in armor when I wont be wearing it when its needed.
>>65459519
>Good news. M855 out of a 9" chode barrel goes really slow and PE plates may be able to handle that!
I guess all you have to do is make sure the person who is shooting at you has the correct barrel length and at the right distance and youre golden. There's a setting for that right?

>>65459643
Oh shit forgot about this gem
>You aren't adding data points to something the Chinese have been making for 20+ years.
>You aren't bankrolling anything either.
lol

>>65459767
Is there a specific type of viktos gloves that are good or is all their stuff good?
>>65459845
I'll keep that in mind I'm still just weighing all my options I think I'd prefer leather ones though over tacticool ones

Note that if you don't want Chinese components from Gilliam, Blackbeard sells very inexpensive US made plates using US/European components. Hell if you're willing to live with square cut you can get III+/IV plates for about $100 a pop from them, with some of these cheap plates capable of stopping M855A1 literally at the muzzle. Downside is that a few of them are older 0101.04 while some are 0101.06, you have to be careful and actually read their stat blocks.

>>65459902
Whatever glove you like better they make good stuff. Buy some cheap leather gloves from Walmart or home depot and see if it you like it. Worse case you use them for dirty work around the house and buy some more purpose made shooting gloves. You can also look at mountain bike/dirtbike gloves

>>65459879
>I guess all you have to do is make sure the person who is shooting at you has the correct barrel length and at the right distance and youre golden
If you're in a city and facing ARPs, or dealing with intermediate barriers between the gun and your armor, or dealing in long standoff distances, your ass isn't automatically grass if facing down M855 with a PE plate. Yes a ceramic is safer but at the same time you need to x-ray those to guarantee condition. PE plates are inherently drop-proof and can space hits tighter.
>I wore 3a body armor for years. Sometimes for 16 hours at a time. I was glad to have it.
The pickle is that IIIA does nothing against rifles and it's getting easier to pop it with handgun ammo absent special threat testing.
>Im not going to start training in armor when I wont be wearing it when its needed.
And that's fair. My entire point however is that you should have a pair of plates at least for emergency purposes. They don't go bad if stored properly and made well and it's a one time investment of $250 or less for second hand decent IV.
>>65459897
Bud that's like saying you buying an iphone bankrolls Chinese manufacture of iphones. The Chinese make the shit out of III+ and IV alumina tile array plates for everyone all over the world.
Russia buys that shit up like crazy.
>>65459925
Gilliam does however kill the Blackbeard plates on specs except for that TSA from back in the day. Ugly fact but Chinese PE is a huge advantage on fiberglass backers.
There's no plate in Blackbeard's roster that can match the 1023's multi hit or the 1635's weight to price to rating.

>>65459967

True, but if you absolutely HAVE to avoid Chinese and need dirt cheap but decent NEW armor, Blackbeard's the best choice despite being lesser in specs. I mean, what other options do you have? Everything in that price range is either Chinese or copsurp.

>>65459982
I agree, but the ABSOLUTELY NO CHINESE rule is antiquated practice and shouldn't be encouraged. That went out of style by 2023.
>I mean, what other options do you have?
True. Best you can get are bottom barrel Highcoms like the SP8 / SP15 or... well... RMA. I don't like the idea of running a size small when I bought a medium so I'd rather not with those two.
The ultimate option is just saving some money to get into the next bracket. This has diminishing returns though. For example, nobody is going to vouch for a $3,000 set of Highcom 4S20Ms or Adept Emperors if dudebro has to cookie jar a little from every paycheck for 36 months. You can build entire loadouts for that.
>I do think Adept dropped the ball on the Emps, it should have been NIJ certified 0101.07 out the gate, but that's beside the point
>Everything in that price range is either Chinese or copsurp.
That's how the Chinese dominate. You go on ebay and look at $250/set or less desperado plates from Iron Armadillo, Hudi's Tactical, TacScorp, Gilliam, and people are buying that shit by the thousands. They aren't great plates but in the words of the NIJ, less effective armor is better than wearing no armor at all.
Chinamaxxing or not, the average dudebro is impulsive and must buy buy buy now now now. RMA built their entire company on shitty 8.3lb $200/set 1155s for a decade.

>>65459982
Do you really think there is nothing chinese in the blackbeard plates? Guys really need to move on from "not buying chinkshit" you have no choice and even if you did it wouldn't matter. Buy what works and stretch every dollar you can.

>>65460062
>Buy what works and stretch every dollar you can.
Well spoken, fellow chinamaxxer.
>Do you really think there is nothing chinese in the blackbeard plates?
Well the IV and III+ are CoorsTek ceramic and then E-glass backers. The ceramic POWDER which is then made into the strike face could be sourced from anywhere and this is actually a major issue in the industry.
But if that's the case and these plates are Chinese, then maybe Hesco and Highcom are Chinese too for the same reason.
>Guys really need to move on from "not buying chinkshit" you have no choice
Yeah you do, you make like >>65459879 and just throw in the towel if a rifle shows up.

>>65458292
I need shoes.
I have size 13 UK (US 14) feet and they're 6E (width), I cannot find any shoes for me. Right now I rock Wide Load for work and barefoot for everything else.

Wut do? I'm looking for boots that I can take hiking, walking, running, LARPing, so on.
And Wide Load has a stupidly stiff sole, perfect for standing around, terrible for long walks and especially bad for hikes.

>>65460099
Keen Targhee boots. Good for outdoors, they're waterproof and comfortable.

That IS one thing I'm leery about chinkmaxxing on. Boots.

>>65460099
if you can find Danner's in sasquatch sizing, i'd recommend them.

>>65460090
I think back to the LBT scandal and even Taiwan's own military procurement lying about making things domestically that they were actually sourcing from china. DHS uses DJI drones I mean I could go on forever. We helped make them the world manufacture and that's what they are, it would be foolish to not partake the spoils of the industrial machine we helped create. I feel they are entering their japan of the 80s era where the goods are cheap and also quality. Japan before the 70s/80s was known to be cheap junk like china goods in the early 0000s

>>65460115
>>65460124
Thanks for the responses, unfortunately both companies only go up to 2E and 4E respectively.

>>65460128
It recently came out that Stealth Armor Systems made Dragonskin using chinese materials (their supplier was bitching on their youtube channel SAS stiffed them on $20k) so add that one to the pile.
>Japan before the 70s/80s was known to be cheap junk like china goods in the early 0000s
I feel like if you threw some subsidies around Japan could be a phenomenal source of high end body armor. Give Toyobo another chance. Sure Zylon was a fuck up but DragonSkin has had like five chances.

A new drop from Cuhtach. Protech IIIA shin guards.
https://surplus.botach.com/protech-1220-level-iiia-ballistic-shin-guard-set-police-trade/
These are meant really for shield carriers.

>>65460056
>>65460062
>>65460090

I'm just saying there's people who for some reason HAVE to buy American but only have pocket change on them, and Blackbeard's the only option for that. Personally I've got a mix of Chinese and western stuff, hell I've even got a couple cheap Botach III+ specials (the same model Buffman tested and performed fairly well even after the drop test) in my stockpiles. You have to be super careful when buying Chinesium, but it can be an acceptable option if you do your due diligence.

>>65460129
Quite honestly, you may be best suited to find a good cobbler and have custom boots made to your specs.
Expensive, but if they are your only pair of do everything boots then it's well worth the investment.

>>65460195
>I'm just saying there's people who for some reason HAVE to buy American but only have pocket change on them
In the words of A2, they are DILUTING themselves.

>>65460195
>the same model Buffman tested and performed fairly well even after the drop test
Can we take a vote on whether Buff is a shill?

>>65460199
What do you think about Jim Green's? I was looking into them earlier and they do custom orders (not to my size but I can always ask).

I'm willing to pay upwards of $700 for them. My current Wide Load boots cost about $200 or so and they've lasted me 4 years of construction work with only 2 insole replacements.

>>65460227

He's definitely a shill, but not for Botach. I think we can trust that particular review.

I was driving down the interstate and an indian lady was hawking tactical gear in front of the strip mall front of the porn store where they sell VHS taeps i pulled over and a sweaty man came out the porn store to sell me taylor swift sex tape on a copy of demolition man but then the indian lady hit him with a condor machete like sundowner syndrome
>red suuuuun
>reeed suuun ovah paradiiiise
>reeed sussss
and then the indian lady offered me a level 4 helmet for $25.99 should i buy it

>>65460257
>$ Armor used:
I'm sorry man... he had an affiliate link on that one too.

>>65460142
Japan is world leading in material science I have no doubt they would cook up state of the art armor.
>>65460227
He is a shill but an honest one. His tests are legit

>>65460285
My only beef is when there's a secret redo test like with the ESRT or the companies block tests which do poorly, ex Hudi's or American Blast or Highcom.
That or when he runs cover for really obvious shenanigans like his 1192s being 10oz heavier than advertised. That's not a variance like he says, that's the plates being overbuilt so they do better on cam.

>>65460294

The irony is he's head and shoulders above every other Youtube tester. I mean he's the only one to do the drop test that I know of, or do all the ammo specifics like weight, velocity, or barrel length. When he miffs a test it's usually quite obvious he was C&D'd or otherwise openly legally pressured into it. At the end of the day he's a Youtuber and doesn't want to get legally fucked since even Yushi Sun has enough lawyers to destroy him.

Buffman is the closest we will ever get to an independent NIJ test, which I find kinda sad.

>>65460230
Jim Green's are really good boots but like you said, they can be really expensive. It never hurts to ask if they can custom make a pair for you. I expect it's really difficult to find sizes that work well for you. I wear a US 10 to 11 extra wide, which isn't that obscure of a men's size and the selection in shoes and boots is terrible. That's why I suggest finding a good dedicated cobbler or custom footwear company, it's going to be an issue for you the rest of your life.

>>65460326
>When he miffs a test it's usually quite obvious he was C&D'd or otherwise openly legally pressured into it.
Obvious to us. Not obvious to those who lack the 'tism. I'll never forget how an anon pointed how to me how a certain youtuber freehanded an SMS HFXC, fired a gun with a Holosun IRIS from a supported position, and then fired a gun with a Laserspeed LAM from a bench, creating a fake ass storyline of the Laserspeed having the least zero drift.
I didn't see that. Anon did.
>At the end of the day he's a Youtuber and doesn't want to get legally fucked since even Yushi Sun has enough lawyers to destroy him.
I've always thought there's something really fucky when he folds like a cheap suit to even bullshit legal threats from Chase or American Blast. Something ugly that would come up in discovery? Maybe Chase was onto something...
If you remember when RMA tried to sue two arfcommers back in the day, those two didn't back down and the suit was totally dismissed. You have a right to criticize, to review, and/or to show poor performance if you're being truthful.
Worst thing he did was say the 4SAS4's backer was trash. That's an opinion. It's fiberglass. All-glass backers fucking suck.
>Buffman is the closest we will ever get to an independent NIJ test, which I find kinda sad.
Don't write off the NIJ. They made mincemeat of Shotstop, who Buff didn't turn on until it was clear they were cooked, probably because his affiliatebuxx weren't coming anymore.

File: 57_bd926f1d-aeeb-4ae5-81c(...).png (1.1 MB, 1155x1155)

1.1 MB PNG

That sewing kit seems rather large. Picked up an Italian military surplus kit that rolls up into a little bundle for about $10

>>65458576
I want to complain about complining.

>>65460390
The Italians can really stitch good fashions, this must be a good kit.

>>65460387

Fair enough. As for the NIJ I more meant semi-proper tests for at least a fair chunk of the armor that isn't submitted to the DOJ. I mean every other tester shoots their armor samples from a random distance with ammo of unknown performance, fucked up shot spacing, no real backing (usually just a metal target or thin air), complete ignorance of BFD, and a giant megadose of BRO SCIENCE. Buffman seems to make a decent attempt to keep things scientifically on the level with shot spacing, bullet performance, backing clay/BFD measurements, and such. A lot of this stuff is flogged to civilians with a 1500mg dose of Trustmebrozium, and none of it is NIJ tested. At least this way we get some semi-scientific idea how said armor will react when shot with known threats, and not just some dude with a random hunting rifle or AR shooting it with mystery meat ammo saying IT DIDNT PENETRATE WHATS BACKFACE DEFORMATION.

File: Chest Rig 26.jpg (3.18 MB, 3767x2016)

3.18 MB JPG

>>65458292
Like a glove. Actually it's a little tighter than I wanted but I'm just happy to have a pouch for this now. Thinking about putting another one where the tq is.

>>65459249
I just use those tan leather work gloves. In addition to what anon said you can try the leather police search gloves. They don't do much but they do make me feel like a hitman when I'm at the range.

>>65460431
>fucked up shot spacing
This can be a good or a bad thing. For example, the following four items are not well known:
1. Many IVs are single strike and therefore bomb the 6-hit Level III test.
2. Many cheap IVs will fold if shot #2 is closer than 3-4" to the first.
3. You can double tap an ESAPI, good Level IV, Level III, or other ceramic and as long as shot #2 is closer than 2" to #1 you're very likely in.
Gilliam reported double-tapping an SRT with a weak backer with a 9mm handgun, piercing on shot #2. My guess is a Hesco L210. Fuck the backer is weak on that plate.
4. If you want to inflate multi hit, "run the perimeter" and shoot the plate on the edges. That's actually where the plate is strongest. Honest full coverage plates are weakest at the crown, which is toward the center.
So with the above you can really game a plate with spacing.

Also, yeah, if you want to cut down BFS back the plate with steel.

What I'd like to see is Buff shoot one plate "virgin" (undropped), one plate dropped, and then one plate subjected to a "hell test" where NIJ fair hit rules (shots 2" minimum from edge, 2" from preceding hits) are off and we really see who skimped on the crack arrestor.
I have a hunch RMA's latest plates would all struggle with the hell test, but that's real world conditions. You don't get to choose where the bad guy's shots land.

>>65459967
>Bud that's like saying
I buy my gear from US manufactures. Optics nylon clothing guns ammo. I also buy gear from US allies. Per my initial statement the increase in price is insignificant to the amount of use I get out of them. The cost between an acro and an aems to me is negliable.

>>65460115
Keen changed something in the materials and now I blow them the fuck out after like three months.

>>65460460
I was mostly wanting gloves cause I keep beating up my knuckles when working my lever guns and I know most guys just wrap the levers with padding to prevent that but gloves would do the job and be handy for other stuff at the same time

>>65460475
The ones you posted won't do much for that but that's the same thing as the police gloves I mentioned. I don't do wraps anymore I had one hold moisture and get all moldy. That shit touched my face. Yucko. The gloves with hard knuckles are pretty unbeatable at protecting your hands on that side. I don't normally like them but this is the one good reason to get some.

>>65460469
The topic of the convo was armor.
>the increase in price is insignificant to the amount of use I get out of them
Well if a Chinese plate is both stronger and can actually take a drop... well...

I'll concede you never see Chinese soft armor claiming to meet the FBI soft armor protocol, which is basically NIJ on roids, including contact shots, but that's because they favor PE which is often temp sensitive.

>>65460489
>the topic
65453489
The topic was buying gommie gear. I started it. The answer is no. Good day.

>>65460467

Oh, I agree. Also, RMA's plates seem to struggle with a lot of things, even when new. That's well known at least.

>>65460474
Well, the point is moot since the anon who asked for recs said that they don't make anything in sizes he needs.
Still, that's a shame.

>>65460512
>ragequits out
damn, boomer no-plates really needs to get with the times.

>>65460603
Probably hence why they didn't let him drop the new 1165 at all.
The only reason why much of this slides is that, right now, it is rare for people to get shot wearing plates CONUS. When they do, it's with a round way below the plate's specs. I think every RMA save I can remember is against a handgun.
On the other hand, if someone dies wearing your armor and it's because the armor failed against an advertised threat, your company is done, so they should be designing with safety margin and not this race-to-the-bottom on weights. Yet that race is spawned by the uninformed youtube crowd that needs to be amazed how hard a 5.3lb $150 RMA "we the people" 1165 mogs a steel plate.

At least the steel plate can handle a four foot drop, lol.

>>65458369
I want to run side plates in my TAP. How best to do this?

>>65459076
>What gives?
Old gear still works. Old guys are like the deadly scorpion.

>>65459249
>plain black
Satin for you, cupcake.

>>65460187
5#/ea, or set?

>>65461140
Baseline option, zip ties and pouches.
>>65461153
For the pair

>>65458292
Who sells op pic?

>>65461253
The Lord of Cuh at
https://www.ebay.com/itm/397969532343

>>65460399
Sorry but this isn't an actual argument.

>>65461349
Yet, here you are arguing it's not an argument. So typical.

>>65461287
Nice, sew bro. I'm kinda favoring this one: https://www.venturesurplus.com/products/raine-tactical-sewing-kit/
I may get a primary and secondary tactical sewing kit for full coverage. Serious question for the serious operators, do I need to go tertiary sew kit to survive with muh buttons (and dignity) intact?

This shield from the latest B-grade chinesium shop, IGY6, doesn't seem so bad. $325, flexible 14x24, IIIA, 2.5lb. Has a plate pocket in the center so you can shore it up for rifles. It's designed to be stuffed into a backpack.
Their plates are shady business though so this shield is still a touch sus.
https://www.igy6defense.com/products/ultralight-mobile-ballistic-shield