Post gear, discuss gearZero-Chinese Tourniquet Policy Edition.Old: >>65458292>AI King of the Hill Stream (aka what armor autism sounds like):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFlDAgLFCSc
reposting in this threaddo you think one of these would fit a Trooper MK III?
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, intense armor autism remote viewed Adept's secret LE plate lineup. Protech and Hesco made a baby. The philosophy of autism was debated, and anon asked about groin flaps.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.178CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat:/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)Budget: Hesco L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HWElite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept EmperorElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
>>65474160did you compare dimensions / ask /hg/?
OP is a cock guzzler for making a new thread when the old thread is on page 2 and nowhere near image limit.anyone got a recc for a good 40mm pouch/multipouch for 40mm grenades that takes different lengths well? trying to fit 12 on my panel.
>>65474197Last guy forgot the damn title. Mistakes happen, but we gotta keep these threads named so people can look them up on desuarchive later.
Anyone know if these 260W "100 meter" range pumped laser pistols with 21700 battery packs are legit? Several different models, they all just started popping up on ebay for some reason like a week ago.
>>65474190>did you compare dimensionsyeah, there pretty close>ask /hg/?I should do that
>>65474236*they're
>>65474197Cheap LBT ones on ebayhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/227389860620
>>65474233Forgot the damn links:https://www.ebay.com/itm/398277432704https://www.ebay.com/itm/398338812486https://www.ebay.com/itm/398330005731260-280W is no joke. a laser dazzler like an LA-12 GLIS is only 200mW. The question is whether that output is actually accurate. Probably not.
>>65474233I've got a bad feeling about this...
>>65474267The Cuhs at Brotach have a Level IV shield for situations like these, Han. Hundred pounds with the trolley. You can push it around like a fat chick. These lasers could set our aliexpress rizz cloaks on fire. the people of Cloud City would be catching charges with the Hutts!https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-level-4-mobile-ballistic-shield-w-trolly-police-trade/?
>>65474275>These lasers could set our aliexpress rizz cloaks on fireFuckin' nerf herders!
>>65474338It gets worse. The rizz cloak now has a matching skirt!https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256811970972135.html?Fuckin' cloaked up femboys are gonna be showing ass, turning tricks, and frying balls with 280 watt blasters and they aren't set to stun!This is advanced warfare. I seent it.
>>65474346>matching skirtIt's not a "skirt", it's a KILT. Very manly! The pleates are just to make you feel pretty.
>>65474361No. THIS is a kilt cono.https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iiia-tactical-bulletproof-skirt-nylon-fabric-equipped-with-laser-cut-molle-system-pe-materialThinking if we ever head to hong kong cabron we need IIIB version rated for class A schitt like that steel co' 7.62x25 tok and the five-seven, ya know?
New tac helmet out, should I buy the bump?
>>65474367I recommend you duct tape on a Nightfox Arctic thermal so you get image quality so bad, mayne, es like peter north blowing a 2 liter on a blonde chicita, dial up, cono. Or maybe you take r2d2 here to a guy on craigslist, he amputate him like that fuck did to mah friend Angel Fernandez and make the robot a high cut.
>>65474233I have a 40w desktop laser that cuts through leather and nylon, 260w seems excessive especially for a portable unit. If true, it could totally vaporize a mosquito. But I suspect they're just saying the battery is 260w, which is not the same as a 260w output.
>>65474391Possibly. It's multiple 21700s. No idea how they're thermally managing that with just a little fan. In any case this thing could likely still blind with a graze and even if it's 40w is still really dangerous.
>>65474055>>>/out/2879232Bump
Anons, how do I go full late 90’s/early 2000’s LAPD swat larp like that one scene from The Fast and the Furious?
>>65474529Not just Fast and the Furious, was also Speed and SWAT
>>65474529Pasgt, goggles, blue jumpsuit. Some sort of soft armor or a tactical vest. Others will give you strange armor made by monkeys in Fiji. Hesco RMA Gillian 9620 spider silk armor.
>>65474569>>65474635Based. Thanks annons. Are there any helmets like the PASGT but better? I want to but nods on the helmet as well.
>>65474701Ach. Plan your nods layout before jumping into a specific helmet ecosystem. It will influence what layout you need, how to setup earpro, etc. Don’t high cut a helmet either unless you’re comfortable with potentially compromising its rating.
>>65474156I have a huge head and need an XXL high cut helmet. The problem is that the AMP arms don't bend inward enough to seal Earpro against my head. I don't want to wear my headset under the helmet if I can. Are there helmet mounted earpro arms that press tighter against my head than the Ops Core AMP arms?
>>65474569>Not justProbably one of the most underrated shows ever: https://youtu.be/gIIFQ42s_tM?si=XORZWAjDIKZyZCjo
>>65475005maybe the unity mark series? they’re constant pressure with no pop-out. probably one of the simplest mount solutions out there, you can play with the pressure by bending the arms.
i am looking for large flat pouch to carry a wand and hose for an OC vapor canister. I have a backpanel with provisions for mounting pouches on both sides of the panel. I want to mount my thicker canister munitions on the outboard side and my hose on the inboard side between the panel in the carrier. I can only compress the hose so much, I don’t want to damage it. i dont care if it’s a zipper or velcro enclosure. the wand and connector together is 14” long. it’s okay if the wand sticks out the top. i have already considered hydration bladders, but i fear those will be a bit thick for what I want.
>>65476395look at the pouches for the hydration bladders by themselves, a 1L one might be big enough.
>>65476395So do you want like a square GP pouch or a smaller hydration pouch?
Iron Dildo I mean Iron Armadillo is selling these "III++" 6.5lb quasi-IVs for just under $100 a plate. They stop 2x M2AP but not at NIJ spec and spacing needs to be wide. Otherwise "rated" for M855A1 and 7.62x54R steel core AP - probably 7N13 or maybe B-32.Chinese alumina-PE tile array, ceramic coverage is 70% or higher per mfg so the cheat ring is major but not quite RMA bad.https://www.ebay.com/itm/325986853533?Their ceramic-PE Level IV is 6lb, which is rather interesting. Backer is probably weaker or the cheat ring is larger. That one tests decently, report showing 2x M2AP at NIJ spec with about 30mm BFD.
I think Botach is now flipping used Aholetech or something.https://surplus.botach.com/law-enforcement-10x12-segmented-hard-armor-plate-police-trade/We're reaching levels of desperado never thought possible.
>>65476863>I mean Iron Armadillo>iron armored dildosSo close.
>>65477381I prefer Iron Dildo, iron armored dildo is trying too hard. Highcum, not Highcoom.238 III++ Iron Dildos have been sold to 119 cuhs on ebay alone.The supply of armor in the US never goes down. Only up.
>>65458292 Just a few things: OP is not a fag, Eyetailians make needles for sewing leather and apparently human skin, y'all y'all be posin' larpers who will die shamefull'ree with missing buttons and I am the only real player in this desparate, cosplayer hellhole. Notice how I made sure to attach pic? >P L A Y E R
>>65477404>trying too hardNoted
>>65477471Hello, Anon. How are you doing today? You posted a few threads back, requesting information on flexible armor technology that had huge rifle rated potential with very little downside risk. Does that ring a bell?The name of the company, Ready Now Tactical. It is a cutting edge high-tech firm out of Virginia, having received immediate NIJ 0101.07 cert on the next generation of flexible, rifle-rated soft armor that has both huge military and civilian applications. Now, right now, Anon, the four pound armor trades over-the-counter at 500 dollars for a 10x12. And by the way, Anon, our analysts indicate it could go a heck of a lot higher than that. Your protection on a mere $1,000 investment could be nothing!Anon, one thing I can promise you, even in this market, is that I never ask my anons to judge me on my losers. I ask them to judge me on my winners, because I have so few. And in the case of Ready Now, based on every technical factor out there, Anon, we are looking at a grand slam home run.https://www.readynow-tactical.com/shop/SOFT-PERSONAL-BODY-ARMOR-RF1-Rifle-Rated-RNT-240-RF1-p694733596
>>65477466I use dental floss and keep a few of those thick leather needles inside it.
>>65477566You will die with very good ums.
>>65477578Floss is superior to thread.
>>65477552>You posted a few threads back, requesting informationI am extremely confident tht I did not. But I know you muct be curious about LED technologies. Reply MORE for more.
>>65477584Post ums.
>>65477552>makes soft body armor RF1 rated >no side plates ayo autist of nigger st give me a 6x12 RF1 rated
>>65477589No I have bad teeth.
>>65477594Quick yes or no, do you spend more on guns/gear than dentistry?
>>65477587I need to know if the laser pistols in >>65474233 are gonna fuck us in the ass. MORE.>>65477592Ready Now Tactical can probably deal if you ask. Just keep in mind this shit is so inflexible the NIJ still calls it a "hard" plate. It can apparently bend and you can see it bending somewhat in the company's vids, but it's not like Tencate Ceraflex where you can literally bend the plate in half. Also keep in mind it's 4lb for a 10x12 which will get its ass beat by M855. Non-flexible RF1 plates are as light as 1.76lb for a 10x12.Also a threadly reminder Tencate had flexible rifle armor, design wise, solved nearly thirty years ago, offering multi-hit M995 / M993 protection for 7lb (ICW IIIA) a plate with the Ceraflex PL-7300.
>>65477708Yes but I spend literally $0 on dentistry the last time I went was a solid 10 years ago.
>>65477799Shit that's heavier than Italian pasta plates, those are 3.3 lbs for old 0101.03 tier III protection (no MSC). You could also get pasta plates for $50 a pop, literally 5 sets for the price of one of these things. Jesus Christ.
>>65477466Anon from last thread. Those Italian sewing kits are great. Needles sometimes have a little rust rarely IIRC. Easily knocked off with steel wool but never had them rust once used. They will sew leather as well as raw and wet rawhide; probably the best option for taxidermists tied with actual sutures. One gives ease of sewing (sutures), the other is super strong as I'm 99% sure is straight up is woven waxed dyneema since this fishing line is so fucking hard to cut. Yes, this makes insanely good sewing thread as well. I've yet to grow some balls and see how my sewing machine does/doesn't like it. Not sure which thickness I use; honestly go to Walmart and eyeball it with your sewing needles and thread in person. Checked.Also, as a bonus, this fishing line isn't>fishing line, US =^|Instead, it's>fishing line, Japan =^O
>>65477799>I need to know$800 is alot to spend on a single function toy, that's why I don't have an Air Arms PCP pellet gun. But I do have UGSI desert googles with laser filter lens inserts and "real" laser goggles carted at Amazon. The peaceful protests in Seattle and diy DVD burner laser removal infographics tauht me that. LASERs (and drones) on the modern battlefield is the poison gas of WWI. A literal blaster can put your eye out, at that power, the operator, too. But, I also have a multiband jammer from chinkistan carted. I will have to lump that in with the laser blaster and the PCP popper I will probably never buy.Goggles $50: https://a.co/d/0cPWKReW
>>65477880Justified. Yet you are still too self conscious to post ums. I wouldn't doubt you have posted a rifle before?
>>65477799you can literally buy super high powered lasers that will burn your retina out of your fucking eye socket from hundreds of meters away for like $50 off amazon
>>65478093Yeah it's not a good deal. Not sure why they went and got it NIJ certified. I suppose that reduces the "cop price" to $500/set but then you still have no M855.I really gotta figure out what Integris did with Ceraflex.>>65478228Single function toy that could overpower those laser goggles, depending on their OD rating and its actual output.>>65478315And they're not even close to 280w! (maybe)
broke my rucksacks waist strap the other day I'm looking for a replacement. I don't really need anything too fancy, I'd prefer something that checks my boxes but isn't expensive or super rare enough to where it couldn't easily be replaced. I have plans for getting something real nice a few years from now, but for now I'm ok with something less fancy.My requirements are>Needs to be good enough for running in>Needs to be able to carry 35~70 pounds comfortably>QD straps would be nice>Fits well with a FLC, especially when taking it on and off quickly. A big issue I had with my old sack was getting the waistbelt on with my chest webbing on, it wasn't quite right putting it over the webbing or under it.>I like external frames conceptually, but I'm open to internal frames if it's a good sack
>>65478621forgot to attach, my old ruck was a hand me down S.O.C. >picrel
>>65474156Looking for magazine pouches that can hold 3 5.56 mags, as well as some AK/AR-10 mags. Also needs to have elastic to cinch the pouch down when stuff is removed, an adjustable height flap, and optional bungee retention mounting points. Any options?
bro is paying for internet by the minute and needs others to google mag pouches for him
Yeah you can get low end RF2 plates for $150 all day, and even Botach RF1s are lighter. $500 a set for incredibly overweight RF1 with a single gimmick is blah. Judging by the very long video they're some sort of ultra thick PE stack, like Botach but looser/unpressed and slightly more flexible. Weird.
>>65478621>>Needs to be able to carry 35~70 pounds comfortablyThats going to be an external frame. Whats your price range?
>>65479066does it have to be a triple stack, or would you accept a placard? shaw concepts and spiritus systems placards take flaps and bungees and can, insert dependent, lay flat. you may have to swap inserts for different mags but that’s as easy as it’s all velcro.
>>65479066Kommando’s store’s “84” mag pouch takes all three calibers and can take 3 5.56 mags, but fixed flapped, no bungie provisions. ngl these requirements are pretty restrictive, and it’s going to be tough to compress a triple mag pouch to anything resembling flat
I want NIJ certified LVL 5 plates and laser goggles. What do?
>>65479269I'm really looking for something cheap, I'm looking at some of those USMC rucks on facebook marketplace I'm finding them for sub $200>35~75In that weight range I gave there's a real emphasis on the 35Ibs side of that range, It'd be incredibly rare for me to go above 50
>>65479265>Yeah you can get low end RF2 plates for $150 all dayIf you push it (to the limit), and walk along the razor's edge, you can hit the wheel and double the stakes with GILLIAM's OA+ $174 a set RF2+ A1-rated plates! Gilliam has sold nearly a thousand of these on ebay alone, not counting his actual site.https://www.ebay.com/itm/285471389115>$500 a set for incredibly overweight RF1 with a single gimmick is blahChief it's $500 a plate. At this point you're midmarket and Militech delivers RF2+ SiC plates which weigh about the same as thus, but stop M855A1, for like $450 a pair.Overall not a fan.>>65479416Go back to 1989 and find a pair of NIJ 0101.03-certified "Special Type" plates rated specifically for M993. Only way to technically have (previously) NIJ certified tungsten stoppers.>laser gogglesFor these mega lasers, stack goggles or just switch to cyberpunk ahhh drone goggles. They'll fry your cameras but not your eyes.
>>65479694I was more thinking since they're NIJ certified cops can possibly get them at 50% off per >>65478495. That's still not good.
>>65479922The BVP grant program does a max of 50%, and the DOJ has discretion in awarding them, so you might or might not get 50%. I don't think NYPD with for example is gonna get a 50% grant for 34,000+ officers to roll $3k a set Highcom 4S20Ms. That's up to $51 million in grants. Large metro or state PDs can negotiate rates plus the BVP and sometimes get plates for 45% the MSRP price or less. I saw several state price lists where that was the case with Safariland.Customary is anywhere from 5-15% off for LE from the MSRP, then BVP percentage, and also account for bulk pricing. Plates really aren't that expensive to make and a lot of manufacturers run thick margins. See how Gilliam still makes bread with $87 a plate OA+'s he has imported from China. His organization is like three guys counting him so his overhead is minimal. RMA has over 50 staff, Hesco at least 80. LTC is about 500. Ceradyne at their peak was north of a thousand.>That's still not good.My thing is that the apparently credential blocked RF1 version of the Hesco 3801 is literally less than half the weight at 1.76lb 10x12 vs 4lb 10x12, and the price difference isn't that bad if you ignore BVP. For the same exact rating that is ridiculous. Not even the Hesco 4800 is half the weight of some cheapo IVs for comparison (4.9lb vs 8.5lb). Definitely an XCAL LP level blunder.
>>65479066Some people don't like them but I use the tac tailor universal pouches for exactly that.
>>65479993Like I said earlier, when Botach beats you on both price and weight for an all-PE plate you're in trouble. NIJ cert is all they've got going for them.
>>65480077Yeah, but a lot of PDs and security outfits have insurance policies which mandate they use NIJ compliant armor, so that significantly thins options. But yeah, I agree, it has nothing otherwise going for it.As a side bar, the Highcom 4S20M and that B4C plate from KIM mark the first 0101.07 cert, definitively "high end" RF3 plates with boron carbide strike faces, so that's exciting news. The 4S20M is actually also DEA Protocol compliant, akin to the Highcom 3S9M, so it's got two HUGE advantages versus the Adept Emperor, Protech 9812-R1, and Hesco 4800. Thanks to BVP, it's gonna be up to half the price as those three despite having superior testing. In other words, the 4S20M is being set up as the definitive FED PLATE. Specs are still hard to come by. Expect a 10x12 which is really a 9x11 and then some SAPI sizes which compete with the Tencate CXP-800 SA.
>>65480091I'm actually discussing Botach's rebadged Longfri LON-III-P plates, which are 3.4 lbs, $170 each, AND actually active NIJ CPL listed. Botach has literally a better, lighter RF1 plate that's active NIJ cert and less than half the price. I mean it's arguably the cheapest NIJ cert rifle plate in existence AND it beats the new Ready Now plate.I'm not sure what to make of that "flexible" armor except as a stupid gimmick plate you can sucker taxpayers into buying.
>>65480112It's true that the LON-III-P is 0101.06 cert as a III, but it's not RF1. You see, RF1 requires M80, 7.62x39 mild steel core, and M193 at specific velocities, including when the plate is conditioned. The LON-III-P's blurb is...>Stand alone, Will defeat M193 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm & M80 7.62x51mmNo 7.62x39 mild steel core, just like the 30yo Italian PE plates. That surprisingly still trips a lot of PE plates up, hence the threat's appearance for RF1. Point Blank still has some PE plates too with that issue.The Ready Now plate DOES stop MSC, and I can prove it because it's actively 0101.07 cert as an RF1.https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/equipment-and-technology/body-armor/ballistic-resistant-armor#2-0The importance is that if your plate loses to 7.62x39 MSC, you're REALLY up shit creek if you're up against M855 even with standoff or out of a short barrel.NIJ cert aside, the Gilliam Helion mogs the Botach. $150 a plate, 2.5lb versus 3.5lb. Full RF1. Only drawback is that RF1 is three hits of M80 versus III's six.https://www.gilliamarms.com/products/helion-rf1-multi-curve-ultra-lightweight-armor-plate?
Also tactical defense & security took their pages down for the 4S20M and 3S22M. Uh-oh. Lot of premature launches lately. Adept still hasn't formally promoted the Emperor and the Mantis' page still 404s.
>>65479610>USMC rucks on facebook marketplace I'm finding them for sub $200Is that a 12# pack? Lol. Should last. I would put $200+ towards a sub-5# pack and just get a better pack. Kuiu, if you can double your price range.
>>65480160>Multi-Hit capability, M193 5.56mm, MSC AK47 7.62x39 & 7.62mm M80, 7.62x51mmThey're pretty sure it meets RF1 standard. Granted Botach could likely be blowing it out their ass (which isn't unknown), but it's right there on their product page. Just wanted to put that out there.And yes, the Gilliam Helion is far better. I just wanted to make a point that even the shittiest Longfri "RF1 kinda trust me bro" is, per open source materials, superior in virtually every metric to the Ready Now RF1 "flex me daddy" armor.
>>65480370>They're pretty sure it meets RF1 standard.Well there's four issues with that.1. Did they test it against MSC conditioned, or does the plate only do 7.62x39 MSC mint condition? NIJ .06 only checks for M80.2. Did they test a batch with no MSC penetrations, or just one plate? Are they testing this continuously since NIJ's follow up tests only check for M80, because it's a III?3. NIJ 0101.07 is testing 7.62x39 MSC with variance around 2,400ft/s. I think it's +-50ft/s. Does the Botach shit out a hair above 2,400ft/s like how a Hesco 4403 or 4800 can do M2AP at 2,910 but shits at 2,930?4. Are they even testing the right 7.62x39mm MSC? Commie ammo varied in quality at the factory level. NIJ specifies in NIJ 0123.00 that only Chinese Type 56, Factory 31 7.62x39 MSC is fair game. I know this sounds minute, but this matters with some plates that have no safety margin. Example, RMA's ESRT is only rated for certain 7.62x39mm BZ API. The Yugo factory flavor is slightly more stiff and penned it in a Buff video, causing RMA to have a meltie.Based on the above, answer is a big fat... maybe maybe not... so if you're facing 7.62x39 MSC for keeps then stick to an actual RF1 (I'd prefer RF2...) and not Longfri guesswork.You can build around this by designing plates with safety margin, but that is NOT Botach or Longfri's philosophy. You only gotta look at those 5.5lb and 6lb IVs to know that's true.>And yes, the Gilliam Helion is far better.Well if we go full bore, the 1.76lb Hesco 3801-RF1 and 2.5lb Gilliam Helion meet the same requirements. Just a huge cost difference because the former uses REALLY NICE polyethylene.>superior in virtually every metric to the Ready Now RF1 "flex me daddy" armor.Certainly. This is one case where unless insurance demands NIJ cert, you really ought to deviate from the NIJ CPL. Want to ensure MSC defeat? Run an M855 rated plate. Militech can deal 4lb SiC RF2s with M855A1 defeat for half the price of this Ready Now.
>>65480370>Gilliam Helion is far betterI like the weight vs protection. But if it can't hanle greentip forget it. What next up and multi greentip defeat?
>>65480425We're just saying as far as RF1 plates go, the Ready Now "flex me daddy" is an expensive gimmick plate that's inferior to even Longfri's "totally RF1 trust me bro even though it's only 0101.06 cert" stuff.tl;dr: If you're in the market for RF1 for whatever reason, avoid Ready Now's "flexible" RF1 because it's an overpriced gimmick plate. End of story.
>>65480425>>65480435Absolute best RF2 (adds green tip!) is the secret boron carbide Hesco 3811-R2, but that's mil/LE reserve catalog, $3k a pair type shit. 3lb flat for a 10x12. Second only to the B4C-Ti/TiN RF2 Adept implies they have, which should be around 2.8lb.If you want a cheaper plate, get ready to add weight. Hesco's regular 3811 is $1.8k a pair, 3.4lb. Next up, Gilliam's 6001 at 4.1lb and $500 a pair. I kinda like the Gillie 6001 because the PE backer is strong enough to beat M80 and M193 on its own, so you aren't screwed if the plate is compromised by rough handling or prior hits in close proximity.
>>65480480>Gilliam's 6001 at 4.1lb and $500 a pairI could do this. Sucks a JPC 2.0 is the same price.
>>65480526Alright, then Chinamaxx with Militech for about $280 + 50 import.https://mili-tech.com/products/copy-of-militech%C2%AE-nij-iii-0101-06-rf2-0101-07-shooters-cut-ballistic-panels-pair-setORused Protech 2120-5s from Hudsongunner. These are nearly 6lb bht are good for 6x M855A1, not just M855.https://hudsongunner.com/protech-2120-5-level-iii-stand-alone-rifle-plate-set-of-2-1011418/($275)Or lastly try and find some expired Hesco 3611Cs for $475 a pair or less from OmegaMars on ebay. These can get cheaper on sale.
>>65480480>>65480544NTA but the best thing about Gilliam is that they're a few dudes in a warehouse putting together these plates from raw Chinesium. As someone said prior, their overhead is very low compared to other manufacturers.What is your take on Level IV plates? Staying within $700 a set if possible
For ICW side plates (ESBIs), does the soft armor have to be immediately behind it? With how my AVS is going to be set up, the soft armor would be internal of the harness but the side plate pockets would be internal of the cummerbund. Does the quarter inch of foam, or maybe quarter inch of air, degrade efficacy of the soft armor to enable the ESBIs?
>>65480865Politely, no.
>>65480797A lot of people are critical of Level IV either because it's antiquated for a "ceiling" rating, which isn't true - when was the last time anyone CONUS has been shot with tungsten core AP, that's the Adept Colossus argument - or because it's excessive for CONUS and you'd be better served with an M855A1 + M80A1 plate, which is an argument RMA, Apex, and DocGKR have all made independently of one another. I think they're all wrong on this one.Do note that armor sellers on both sides of that issue then started trying to make big bread with... Level IV plates. I think that was just a ploy to sell new products.>What is your take on Level IV plates?My problem is that Level IV is a single strike requirement and it's common for IVs to fail the six hit III test or even three hit RF1 / RF2. See Protech 2014G, Hesco 4403, Hesco 4800, 2014MC, LTC 26605, etc. IVs have strong strike faces but often skimp on backer / crack arrestor because single shot plates don't need it.My preference is for IVs which also meet Level III. They are called III/IVs and are a popular, historical LE requirement for good reason. This offers the most comprehensive CONUS protection, but these plates have beefed up backers and often run a bit thick. For example, my Protech 2230s are 1.2". They are however lighter than Hesco 4403s.>Staying within $700 a set if possibleGilliam's single curve 1023 does 6x M2AP and is $400 a set, so it's got multi hit locked down. Protech 2230s are in high demand but can be found surp for $300 a set if you're patient. Surp Hesco-Protech 2230-1s are lighter and apparently meet same reqs. If you can raise to $900 a set, on sale Hesco 4601s meet III+IV at just over 6lb a pop. The 2230 has a 500ft/s v0 advantage on the 4601, however.LTC has some cheaper III/IVs but they're all antiquated .04 holdout models. Botach has some 0101.04 PPI 2518s for $280 a set which are also III/IV ICW IIIA, and per DocGKR's testing do 3x M2AP / 3x 5.56 SSA 70gr tungsten AP.
>>65480865>For ICW side plates (ESBIs), does the soft armor have to be immediately behind it?No, they aren't adhered to one another so it doesn't matter. The soft armor needs to be behind the plate, though.>the soft armor would be internal of the harness but the side plate pockets would be internal of the cummerbund. Does the quarter inch of foam, or maybe quarter inch of air, degrade efficacy of the soft armor to enable the ESBIs?Not at all. Fragments will pierce the ESBI, pierce the foam, then get caught by the soft armor. I'd have concerns about highly angled hits thus enabling fragments to "go around" the soft armor, but ESBI / ESAPI plates are relatively lenient on soft armor versus other ICWs and significant angling favors the armor.
>>65481192Thank you very much for the write up, Anon! The single hit test for LVL4 never made much sense to me either, which RF3 could have *tried* to rectify for newer plates on 0101.07 classification but kept the single hit.The Gilliam 6001s appear more fitting for my usage to have some valuable protection in my tunnel rat/urbex and hiking proclivities. That weight and protection is very appealing.Why is it the NIJ of all branches that does this come think of it. Seems more silly than the FDA regulating laser devices.
>>65481251>The single hit test for LVL4 never made much sense to me either, which RF3 could have *tried* to rectify for newer plates on 0101.07 classification but kept the single hit.The issue is that if you want to raise multi hit on M2AP, you either need a tile array which jacks up weight (compare 8.5lb RMA 1155 with a mono strike face versus the 10.4lb, hypo no cheat ring edition RMA 1189), or you need a strong crack arresting solution which cranks up cost because a strong crack arrestor increases BFD by concentrating energy, which means you need a stronger backer.NIJ allows you to "opt into" IV as up to a 6x multi hit test, or RF3 up to 3x, but shot spacing is minimum 51mm. That's tough as nails for most monolithics. Hesco's 4K10 can do two. Rest of their IVs will fail the second hit of M2AP at 51mm spacing, per Hesco themselves. Most IVs are like that. If you wanna stop a second hit, it better be spaced a lot further, for a monolithic, or it needs to be on a separate tile.>The Gilliam 6001s appear more fitting for my usage to have some valuable protection in my tunnel rat/urbex and hiking proclivities. That weight and protection is very appealingIf you can rule out .308, SRTs may present interesting options, but unlike 6001s they tend to have weak backers (hence why they struggle with .308) and that means if the ceramic is cooked you're cooked.Gilliam did mention in one of his articles he pierced a rifle rated SRT plate with a 9mm handgun. Just double tap. If shot #2 hits a ceramic area destroyed by shot #1, you're in. In that case, the old /bag/ poorfag solution of "run IIIA soft behind your SRTs" may have merit...>Why is it the NIJ of all branches that does this come think of it. Seems more silly than the FDA regulating laser devicesNIJ is a DOJ division that focuses on regulations and research. IMO, does make sense for the department of justice to have federal guidelines for this kinda stuff.
Also as a side bar, special rifle threat plates come in two camps1. They straight up lose to .308 because the backer is weak as hell. Hesco T212, L210, Z210 are in this camp. These are the ones that rely basically on the ceramic to do everything, so if it's compromised then gg. These you gotta be real careful with. Very easy to brute force.2. The SRTs which handle select .308 / 7.62x51 / 7.62x54R threats but do not meet the full NIJ Level III requirements versus 7.62x51 M80. The Hesco U210 / U211 stop M80 but go over 44mm BFD. The Tencate CR-6450SA does it once but BFD is also over (it's like 47-48mm IIRC), the VelSys PBZSA also does it at least once within NIJ but it will lose the 6x multi hit battery. Also it's only 0.52" thick so drop protection is a no. Level IIIs need to stop 6x M80 conditioned. That's a baseline. Hesco L211 and M210 also stop M80 (they stop 7.62x54R LPS cold under 44mm) but piss hot over 44mm BFD as well. LPS is stronger versus the strike face but doesn't "push" the backer as much.Absolute best III+ right now is the Protech DT306C/HW from CopQuest. It's like $2,800 a pair, but 4lb for a 10x12. Six M80 or six M855A1. Full drop pro, 1" thick. Gilliam's 6001 will lose to A1, you need the 6002 for that.
>>65481280>>65481297.308 is one of the ubiquitous hunting calibers in my neck of the woods and extremely prolific. FMJ/M80, Soft Points, Ballistic Tip, Bonded, and OTMs are the most common threats in .308 I'd face; M80A1 or similar would be very rare even by LEOs>6002sOnly a lb more per plate and the same price....temptingMakes sense now with that context
>>65481312In that case you can forget about the SRTs. People tend to flock to those PBZSAs, for example, but forget the no free lunch rule. A III or III+ (in this context adds M855) is an inch thick or whereabouts. A PBZSA is 0.52" thick. You do NOT have sufficient backer and drop protection to meet full III with that layup. If someone is cool with needing major spacing to stop multiple hits, cool, the PBZSA fills that roll perfectly.>Only a lb more per plate and the same price....temptingBe careful, you're chasing the rating dragon. >One pound for M855A1, but I don't see M80A1 so let's add just another 0.5lb, but oh shit M2AP is more common than M80A1 especially out in the boonies and outperforms it, so let's just step up to III/IV. But wait, if we're facing M2AP it's probably out of a .300 Win and way faster than NIJ spec! Just another half a pound, right? If M80A1 is rare then M855A1 is probably also not super common, and if you add significant standoff it isn't super killer versus a well made M855 plate. Even Hesco's 3810 can KINDA handle it at lower velocity. v50 basis.As for weight, the difference between an ESAPI and a first gen XSAPI was a pound and that alone shitcanned XSAPIs for the most part. Maybe look at Militech's RF2 SiC. It lacks the redundant backer of the 6001 / 6002 but uses superior Silicon Carbide ceramic, so it adds M855A1 defeat for about the same weight as the 6001. Downside is that it is lightly cheat ringed.
>>65481339"Lightly cheat ringed"Not inspiring confidenceI think the 6001 is the best within this price range for my application. The backer is also a plus for it And it's Gilliam. I like those autists
>>65481372It's somewhere between 5-10mm on each side, so not a huge 1" ring like RMA but definitely not edge to edge either.The 6001 is well made, so by all means go for it. I have several all-PE Gilliam plates for my Jinwudun skirt, and I'll vouch for their build quality. The 6001 rivals the Hesco 3810 for a lot less scratch and the only way to definitively beat it is to go with a much more expensive plate.Of course, keep in mind an RF2 only has to stop threats three times and a "III+" has to do six, so the 3810 does have a multi hit advantage. However, statistically, it's unlikely you'll exhaust a three-hit RF2 especially if spacing is generous. Most other standards, like DSTU / GOST / VPAM / HOSDB / TR mostly center around 3-5 hits. Even US military plates are 2-3 hit and required spacing on those can get very wide. The new USMC Lite plate is something like 5-6" between two hits.
>>65481399Ideally in a perfect world, these specs are meaningless. As the saying goes;"Don't get shot":^)
>>65481415Survivability onion. Don't get shot comes before don't get penetrated. Armor is the second to last layer of the onion (first being don't die) so it's important, but no use chasing dragons. For example, a guy on ebay spent $5,000 on a pair of ex-ST6 Ceradyne "SAEC" plates that provide standalone single strike M2AP defeat at 4lb and 0.62" thick. Could have bought some seriously more useful shit than that. Pair of PBZSAs and really good NV or thermal. Don't be detected first and don't get engaged first beats don't get penetrated, in the survivability onion.The only reasons people hesitate on Gilliam are that his plates use a mix of Italian, American, and Chinese materials - but he's very upfront about that, and Gilliam Arms has no NIJ certs for now.My GARMS plates came in a heavily padded box despite being drop proof, and they are all exactly the same size, so the QC seems to be tight with minimal variance.
Anyone have experience with Ex Umbris Designs gear? Been eyeing their plate carrier
>>65481643>now we are making it available in small quantities to the public for Beta Testing. >Pay $375 to beta test a carrier>$140 for a belt>$60 for a GP pouchevery single day, a thousand men go the other way and buy chinese
>>65482434Vietnamese is betterIt will love you long time!
>>65481643Id look at beez. Its going to be cheaper and is known high quality. Surprised to see Velcro cummerbunds in the big 26 for a new $$$ PC
>>65481192>>65480797>>65480480So should I get 11x14 Gilliam's level 4. Or Hescos level 4? They are legit? I think Gilliam's is lighter and tile array.
>>65482620Which Gilliam in particular?>They are legit?Reasonably. Test report situation is good, I'll vouch for their workmanship, and they're very transparent with sourcing. There's now several video tests of their stuff and it all performs pretty well. The 8002 is a beast but in your case would be 11lb for an 11x14.>I think Gilliam's is lighter and tile array.If it's tile array it's usually single curve. Hesco's IVs are mostly now multi-curve which is generally preferable.
What are the current GTG surplus gas masks on the market ?
>>65482762Just save and look for deals on ebay/botach and get the avon c50. Its the endgame mask
>>65482809It's like $150 cuh on ebay. That is three Protech X-CAL LPs.
>>65482817Worth the money. Gas masks are very useful and a good one will last you forever, be easier to shoot, and drink with while being more comfortable.
>>65482832NTAGot one for $145 and a sunlight outsert for $75I'll likely order a prescription carrier through Avon for my fucked up eyes too
This Russian plate test got auto-dubbed by youtube's AI and it sounds like a flamboyantly gay Russian is edging himself the whole time while also trying to cork out a shit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx_1Umb1-20>no penetration>nothing caaaaame throooough>we are the final authorityNot sure if ai slop youtube poop or the world's first armor porn.
>>65479610A filbe? Never owned one but I bet they could handle the weight. I used this pack for 20 kilo 10k rucks . I wouldnt reccomend it for anything over that weight wise. If you like this pack just make sure it comes with the belt and stiffner insert.Ebay S.O. Tech Mission Medical Trauma Backpack large
>>654826731023: RF3 for 11x14 I think are 7lbs each? Guy i talked to said it would be mult curve. My other option is Hescos 11x14 9lbs 4403 mult curve. Gilliam is $600. Hescos are $617Is getting the max heavy even worth it? For Tungsten. Its for work and also hike/run drills/camping in the middle of nowhere. But I will be walking / standing for 8-12 hours in them. Mostly worried about basic long guns. M855A1, Maybe the odd hunting gun in the wilderness.
>>65482434>beta testing>betas buy this
>>65482966Okay hang on here. The 1023 is explicitly single curve per their site and is 7.2lb for a 9.75x12. It should be 9.5lb for an 11x14 assuming same cut.>Guy i talked to said it would be mult curveYou CAN make a tile array multi curve, but that usually involves a hexagonal tile array and the 1023 is square array, again per their site. The difference in curvature alone means this is some new model. I dunno what they're trying to sell you.>Is getting the max heavy even worth it? For TungstenFor standing and walking around for half a day? With a 22lb pair of plates? That doesn't sound great. The 8002 is tough as hell but it's really on the heavy side and meant for extreme situations. Tungsten ammo is not common and if it's gonna show, it'll be Real Hard Shit (tm) the 8002 isn't rated for.>Mostly worried about basic long guns. M855A1, Maybe the odd hunting gun in the wilderness.Maybe really look at the 6002. We're talking huge weight savings versus these IVs and it seems silly to even entertain 6x M2AP plates like the 1023 if M855A1 is your biggest problem. I think you're going way overboard on rating.
Also should probably define what Real Hard Shit is.So long story short, an XSAPI is rated for tungsten core 7.62x51mm M993 three times, with spacing, at up to 3,100ft/s. An Adept Colossus is rated for the more potent 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP, and is capable of stopping M993 up to around 3,500ft/s per Buffman's testing. The Gilliam 8002 Max also is rated for 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP.The Colossus loses to 7.62x54R 7N37 at 2,714ft/s. That is an actually modern, long-core tungsten penetrator design. Ergo, the 8002 Max also likely loses to 7N37.The difference is that M993 and Swiss P AP are small core designs. M993 was meant for punching light vehicle armor and Swiss P AP is a heavier, mostly lead projectile designed to perforate shitty old IVs from back in 1998 with fiberglass backers. Tungsten core busts the strike face, remaining projectile makes it through. 7N37, and by extension other actually modern APs like AP11LR, AP10, and the .338s like AP529 simply have too much of a core. You need a thicker strike face. So in that respect the 8002 and Colossus are kinda in a catch-22 situation. Overkill for CONUS but not strong enough for the rare day the Real Hard Shit comes out to play. There is one alternative, however...
>>65483011>There is one alternative, however...Is it majiks?
>>65482994They make stuff custom in email. They said they could make anything. Was mult curve 1023's. All ask them about 11x14 6002's. And consider it. On my off days I would be using these for camping/hiking/training. So worried about being sniped out in the wilderness. Or if society goes to crap. Not sure if worth it.
>>65483011>>65483084Is it bootleg SARVIPs from Serban and EDUN?
>>65483084The little plate that could, the X-CAL LP
>>65483084Do you think she was/is a sexual freak IRL like she portrayed in Apple Pie?
>>65483409Hollywood. So, no rules or morality. Lesbo in Buffy.
If anyone needs a carrier in Large, this one from HRT is on saleComes with their cummerbund https://hrttacticalgear.com/products/hrt-rac-plate-carrier-contract-overrun?variant=48169692397803
>>65483183>Was mult curve 1023's.Then it's a new model and really needs a test report. Are you cool with running plates that thin on testing?>So worried about being sniped out in the wilderness. Or if society goes to crap. Not sure if worth it.They do also have the Gilliam 1635. It's a mono strike face and not a tile array, but is somewhat cheaper than the 1023, multi curve, and a pound or so lighter.You're down on multi hit with it. Regardless, unless your plates are repairable (LIBA) for an apocalypse situation you should consider having more than two and keeping spares. Maybe go different rating. 6002s for mobile, and since we're talking END OF THE WORLD... MAYBE 8002s for stationary stuff.You can ask them custom for even harder plates. I think somebody was supposed to ask them for .50 cal stuff. They made some russian Defender-shape plates good for harder threats than Swiss P for some guy too.>>65483084Nyet.>>65483279Afraid not.>>65483272The winner! The EDUN GA-8 12.7x108 B-32 API plate. I had a thought. So Russia's 7N37 rated BR5+ Granits, even with soft armor and CAP, need 800 meter standoff to stop 12.7x108 B-32 API. They're alumina-PE construction. Thick, heavy, comes up over 9lb with soft armor and CAP. It's about 7.6lb by itself. Alumina isn't the best ceramic for the job. The EDUN plate uses SiC and is nearly 9lb on its own and 1.44" thick, so it's materially superior. It stops the same 12.7x108mm B-32 API at 50 meters.800 vs 50 meters, huge standoff difference. It's clearly a far stronger plate and would be capable of stopping harder threats than 7N37. SiC is better ceramic.$1,000 a set on Taobao doesn't sound so bad for absolute protection. It would be 11.3lb a plate for our 11x14 dude here.
>>65482891Also side bar on this, that Project LEAF plate looks bad. Classic chinese 2x2" alumina tile array. Not a bad thing in itself but it has seemingly no crack arrestor, strike face - backer bonding looked shitty, and one shot cleanly compromised multiple tiles because of ceramic spall.Probably comparable to how a Jinwudun plate would perform. A step and some below Gilliam. The Atlant looks better. However, it's worth noting the Russian tested them incorrectly. He didn't use a backing medium like clay, freeballed it, and just accepted the bulge on the back of the plate as backface signature. That's wrong and would significantly underreport the number, especially against that .338 Lapua, which already bulged the hell out of the back.LEAF intends for their cheapo Chinese plates to be used with a carbon fiber "TAP" plate to shore up BFD down to GOST standards, so the test was a goof. Funny, but a goof.
GPCF50 is a bit overkill for doing urbex stuff but also lends itself well in case of being exposed to some nasty gases, right?
>>65484069Check dust and reusability ratings. Maybe look at some of the ones from Airboss like the M96 NBC?
Hot take, the armor industry is oversaturated and a lot of the tiny chinese white label companies are probably fronts for less... honorable enterprises.
Some funny test reports on this page. VetsMFG ran a 4lb Level III all-PE plate against a .338 Lapua, 250gr Scenar, at 2,939ft/s and got 79mm BFD.https://www.firearmadillo.com/doccumentation
>nice desert camo you got there>now make the knees black
>>65485722I know, right? Nothing a little spray can won't touch up.
>>65485808wtf are you touching? a dog? a horse?
>>65486101ur mum's muff
This one is for the nvg nerds. Anyone use Holosun lights/lasers? I’m contemplating picking up a pid pro for my five seven. Throw some discount Chinese noodle technology on that thang. Go birds.
>>65486101a moldy esapi on tacswap for $350>>65486358If you want to talk real dollar discount noodle technology, I have a knockoff DBAL-PL I got for $85. Holds zero, but holster options suck ass as far as I've seen and the vis light / laser are piss weak.Holosun is the Militech of chinese lasers / optics. My gold dot Holosun I have on an AR feels better than a 1998 Bushnell Holosight durability-wise. Granted that doesn't even have a shroud so it's about as drop proof as a Highcom 4SAS4.Also where a lot of chinese stuff falls short is waterproofing. Huge issue with SMSLaser stuff like the HFXC, not a problem generally if you upbuck it to Holosun.I'd say unless anyone has horror stories about the P.ID like some have about Holosun's "rings of saturn" flashlight, pull the trigger.
>>65486101>wtf are you touching?Caribou hide.>>65486192Among other things: https://youtu.be/wv-34w8kGPM?si=eeKTC-coRvxLzenX
>>65486558>Also where a lot of chinese stuff falls short is waterproofingI had a set of FMA amps that shat the bed when I went larping in the rain.They did work though and sound quality was nice.
>>65486558Seems to fall in that “good enough” category which I can’t really complain about. I’ve been on a vis laser kick as a shitty analog to active aiming for iron sight guns. It works, but go look at what they want for a x400u gr. As far as waterproofing, it should be sufficient for Philly unless I decide to go diving in one of our many inland oceans. Holster capability is going to come second. Supposedly it will fit a tlr footprint, but I have high doubts and am likely looking at custom. >side noteBeen going down a rabbithole on active aiming analogs for thermal. We could scale down missile guidance systems.
>>65486602>FMA ampsI have a pair as well and agree they are nice. I'm thinking of taking it apart and waterproofing it myself.
Man I love when Botach is selling two year old Level III PE plates as police trade, cannot guarantee performance, when they've still got eight years on a ten year warranty.https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-10-x12-level-iii-ballistic-plate-shooters-cut-new-old-stock/?They have plenty of deals, but make no mistake. Botach is sleazy and you gotta watch your back buying from them.Also, side note, Gilliam warranties all plates for ten years except for the made in china OA+'s, which are warrantied for five. The obvious implication is that those aren't expected to last ten.
>>65486891Those aren't all-PE III plates, those are ceramic/PE III+ ones, basically one of their 3.5 lb PE IIIs with an added 1 pound alumina strike face slapped on. Half off brand new price but you don't know if that strike face was dropped or not.
OK finally getting some EDC set up after years of not carrying. Got a couple of questions:1. Got a Gunner Custom Holster for my CZ as it was the only one for my pistol/light config. Plan on OWB and chose a paddle because frankly the other one looked gigantic. Paddle screws in. Anyone know if the screws are at the same spacing I can put in a Tek Lok belt loop instead? I just wanted a more slimline holster so it wouldn't be as obvious.2. Looking at belts. Work is cool with me carrying even OWB. But it is business casual and 90% of the time I'm wearing darker jeans or slacks and a button down long sleeve, tucked in, with a denim or leather jacket over it. I've heard good things about Hanks but also some more recent concerns. What I am looking for based on 10 minutes of research is a double layer, horsehide [if possible since that seems to be the best] leather belt, steel [gunmetal or non plated] squared buckle [but i can swap that out myself easily enough] and 1.5". I've heard Beltman is also really good and damn tempted to get the Bullhide 1.5", but they dont seem to be recommended much on here. Kramer's also looks nice and idgaf about the wait time if it is worth it. A good warranty is ideal but really I am looking to buy a single belt that is going to literally last me the rest of my life. Willing to spend to get that, I just have an out of sight out of mind brain and I know if I get an inferior belt I'm still gonna not replace it for years until I get around to it so I'd rather just go straight for the top. I dont care if you need a bending machine to break it in, I just need the most durable double layer 1.5" leather [and only leather, no reinforcers, fucking hate synthetics] belt you can recommend to me. Thanks!
>>65487118
>>65487035Missed that, thanks. Given how shoddy their IVs are on drop pro, I'd be a little miffed about those.The thing with all this B-grade chinesium is that if you just save up two more paychecks, even on retail money, you can buy A-grade. The choice is buy shit that sidegrades RMA or save a little and buy stuff that mogs RMA.+
Gentlemen, Adept has dropped the new SECOND GEN Archon IV+ plate. It is now 5.2lb instead of 5.8lb, $580 a plate, 1.05" thick standalone. The trick is that instead of SiC-TiB2 they are now using... QBC-265™ multiphase armor ceramic. BFD is slightly higher, nearly 33mm rather than mid-20mm range versus M2AP. I'll need to figure out what QBC-265 is. This is interesting. M995 / 7N39 protection with boron carbide weight.https://www.ade.pt/product/archon/
Alright, I think I got it. OBSiC. Oxide bonded Silicon Carbide. Listed areal density is an exact match at 2.65g/cm^3.Adept forgot to upload the test reports and the two listed are just the Emperor's, duplicate. The data is however on the page. I'm just concerned about sizing.The Archon is nominally sized and assuming sizing is the same as the GEN1, this should be about 5.4lb, not 5.2lb, if true 10x12. Regardless this is very impressive for a SiC-derived plate. 5.4lb is B4C weight and those IVs usually lose to M995 out of a 20" and other light tungsten threats.Also, since this is not B4C-derived, amorphization failure is unlikely versus tungsten, so in theory you can get the same 10% weight reduction for the Colossus. Puts you at 5.8lb for not-10x12 and about 6.3lb for size-corrected, actual 10x12. Versus 6.5lb and 7.1lb, respectively. That's huge.I will give Adept credit, evasive about NIJ and sourcing as they've been, they're actually trying new shit. New ceramic. Same cannot be said for most of the big guys. If Hesco used this OBSiC ceramic with the 4601 it'd be just under 5.8lb. Gilliam with the 8002, 7.56lb instead of 8.5lb. Multi-hit Swiss P AP $314 plate for less weight than a Hesco 4403. The exciting bit is that Adept sells their ceramic to Gilliam.My thing is, this is the EXACT kinda ceramic a plate like the GEN-IV XSAPI would need. Why not take a stab at that program? Kick LTC in the dick.No free lunch rule unfortunately still applies. Grain of salt.
Has anyone used the hsgi 2qt4u canteen pouch? I want to use it as a gp pouch but I'm wondering how much can fit in there.
>>65487555>QBC-265Sounds Chinese
>>65487887The ceramic is all over the place, just not for armor until recently. Handan Rongqiang, Zibo Unity, and Zibo Yufeng all make OBSiC in China. St. Gobain makes it in the west. The fact the Archon is still $580 a plate, about the same as a Hesco 4601 not on sale, strongly suggests they're sourcing the OBSiC from China, otherwise everybody else would be using it (from Gobain) or there's something Adept isn't telling us. I'm having a hard time buying the idea Jake Ganor at Adept is the only guy in the industry who doesn't have his head up his ass.This DOES vindicate the Gilliam 9969 suddenly losing half a pound, but that was months ago and the plate was since discontinued. Why discontinue it if it's such a killer plate?
>>65487725>This 2qt Canteen Pouch easily holds a two-quart canteen, an M249 SAW drum, a JetBoil Cooking System, or numerous rifle magazines (eight 30-round 5.56 magazines) in place.
>>65487725Looks like a pouch I can dip my balls in.
>>65487235I ended up getting the Horsehide double layer belt from A&G leather. A tad over $100 with shipping, cheaper than Hanks. Got a call maybe 90 minutes later, on a Sunday, at what must be over 8pm their local time, from the manufacturer. Personable southern man. Asks for me to re-measure myself just to make sure that we're both on the same page because they wanna make the belt right the first time. Had a discussion on liners but since I am carrying a P01 with it we decided against it. Unless this thing arrives somehow made of paper, that level of care might have just made me a lifelong fan and I haven't even received the belt yet. I just appreciate good craftsmanship and care about their work.
i bounced a check to pizza hut
A man on ebay is running an auction for a single "Protech 9812-R1" which is really an ESAPI. Even has a homebrew logo and everything.https://www.ebay.com/itm/168663672973I dunno why he's being fruity as hell about an ESAPI. If anyone wants to gamble it's bidding at $3.25 at the moment. Philly trash sniper, you're up.
>>65487954>Unless this thing arrives somehow made of paper, that level of care might have just made me a lifelong fan and I haven't even received the belt yet.I can appriciate that. https://thewildbuckoutdoors.com/collections/belts
>>65488057Thx for sharing. I shoot 10mm. I knew you'd want to know.
>>65488057Ay yo Mr. White, go buy an outdated bitcoin miner and jack the pizza hut's electricity and free wifi to mine some bitcoin.https://www.ebay.com/itm/206485130243This miner generated $1,297 in bitcoin a year but uses $2,995 in yearly electricity, so you gotta pirate the juice or you'll lose 37 Protech X-CAL LPs a year. When the Pizza Hut sees their bill go up they can just blame it on the fridge.
>>65488143eBay will strike your account for selling ESAPI's
>>65488143>>65488514Ebay rules are stuck in like 2003 because you aren't allowed to sell a lot of "modern military equipment" (everything from after Desert Storm) including my SAPI plate, not even an ESAPI. I listed as a surplus plate first, it got taken down, tried selling it again but saying it was hesco or whatever brand, and they took it down again. You can't sell modern military surplus Kevlar either.
>>65487469I actually have some Botach III+ plates because lolcovid SHTF and I needed some kind of rifle plate right the fuck now because we legit thought society was gonna go full Mad Max soon. Basically everything better was sold the fuck out for months and out of everything left they did the best on Buffman's tests (which to say they actually met rating after his drop test, if only barely). They passed torque, were well padded in the box when they arrived, and I've basically kept them as emergency spares ever since. I trust them to meet the Buffman test standard and NOTHING higher. That's about the best you can expect with Battle Steel.
>>65488143Bid sniping commences. What am in for? Assuming this needs a backer.
>>65488514is this why people only refer to them as "strike face plate"?
Good morning Saars it is time to discuss armor
>>65489091No.
>>65488514Not really true. You can't sell Level IV or above and you have to falsely attest the armor is not military and complies with NIJ 0101.06. With ESAPIs, this exposes you to an INAD return if buyer has any kind of remorse because, yeah, that's a lie. People do however sell them all the time. For IVs and up, usually just say III++ .30-06 and people will get it. Iron Dildo and Hudi temu Ryan Reynolds sell IVs commercially on ebay that way.>>65488536Armor Depot and other guys sell military soft armor all the time. Either you're wording your listings wrong (see above) or they've got some men in Bangladesh eliminating competition with spam reports.>>65488837Yep. Obfuscate the listing with an IYKYK. XSAPIs, 28595s, and SAECs are regularly sold on ebay. ESAPIs are chump change.>>65488555It's an ESAPI. Needs a milspec backer to meet full requirements (comparable to a decent IV) but you can use IIIA just fine. Very forgiving versus say X-CALs.>>65488545Sounds fair. I remember people were buying steel (as in actual steel plates) because ceramics were wiped out. The thing with Buff is that it's difficult to prove his samples don't get an extra level of QC. They probably do.Also he only posts videos with mfg's approval, so if there's a bad test, that could be hidden from you.For example, I've seen five second hand reports of old RMA 1155s having issues. First the NIJ removal. Then one failed to two Tulammo 7.62x51. Then one failed to two .308 again in a gunrag article. Then a guy shot one with 7.62x51mm M80 and it blew through. Lastly, one had the strike face offset from the backer. Yet if you watch Buff, the 1155 put on a solid show every time. The same disparity could be true for the BS plates. Def emergency spares only at this point.
>>65489354Hoping to win this one. There is still the matter of inspection/hoe dropped this one was. I’m thinking solid back plate territory.
>>65489366I was debating on picking it up as an alternate front plate for my Jinwudun but the condition doesn't look super great.Worst case, if it fails tap / torque just INAD it and make the seller pay return shipping + a full refund.(tl;dr there's a reason why dudes prefer selling armor on tacswap or fuddbroker).>I’m thinking solid back plate territory.What's your front plate? Running different plates front and back is old school practice.
>>65489401You’re welcome to snipe as well. As to how to do these tests, I’ll have to learn quick. >front plateNone currently. I remember seeing this done and figured might as well throw the sus in the rear and get something real nice in the front. Is it the best armor practice? Probably not, but chopping an ach wasn’t either, so it evens out.
>>65489472>front plateThere's one remaining Protech 2230 on gunbroker for $300. Dude has sold to anons before and he does take lowballs. Try him for $125. Singles go for a lot less than pairs.It is MUCH stronger than a pre-Rev. G ESAPI and standalone. 7.5lb 10x12 versus 5.45lb 9.5x12.5, however, so it's a thick and heavy sucker. The 2230 is tested to stop M2AP at over 3,510ft/s while ESAPIs have a v0 requirement of only 2,880ft/s.>Is it the best armor practice? Probably not, but chopping an ach wasn’t either, so it evens out.There's a distinction between best practice and what I'd call "street practice" - aka what people are doing and getting away with. I do not see a mountain of dead people from failed 4SAS4s. Is using a shitty no-drop slapdash plate like that best practice? Hell no. Can you get by, given street threats are a lot less stiff than M2AP? Certainly.Shoot for best practice, but engage in street practice at your own risk.Side bar, I did see the FBI is trying to get PDs to adopt their soft armor protocol over just NIJ, and part of how they're doing it is giving their surplus armor to cops. Interesting news.
>>65489500I’ll give that a look, thanks. Practicing street practice until the casino pulls through. >fbi soft armorInteresting. Now the question is how does ss190 and even some of the t6b stuff compare to the fbi standard? Also, side note, are gel trauma pads a thing? I was sent a dumb video on those needoh thangs stopping bullets but they actually weren’t too bad at it. Bfd cheat? Maybe.
>>65489552Here's the link for the 2230. He's had it sitting around for months so that price is likely VERY flexible.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1200590844>Now the question is how does ss190 and even some of the t6b stuff compare to the fbi standard?A big thing with the FBI standard is that it tests contact shots, which give temp-sensitive polyethylene panels a hard time. Polyethylene is a lot less velocity sensitive than aramid. Ergo unless it's PE-Aramid hybrid or another composition, the FBI panels probably do worse gainst T6B than very good all-PE NIJ panels in the v50 department. No free lunch rule strikes again. T6B at 2,000ft/s+ will require a very stout panel either way. Maybe turn to Omniprotex's stuff.>ss190This is basically diet M855 and is outside soft armor's depth entirely unless velocity is very low. Hell, SS190 out of a PS90 can defeat some hard PE plates good for M193, like RMA's SRT.>Also, side note, are gel trauma pads a thing? I was sent a dumb video on those needoh thangs stopping bullets but they actually weren’t too bad at it. Bfd cheat? Maybe.Darkmatter's stuff is described as a gel, including the AR500 Trauma Pad Plus. Zoombang's trauma pads are also something like that. viscoelastic polymer that is soft to the touch and stiffens upon impact.DM's pads reduce BFD by roughly 30% but their pad weighs a pound or so. Serious tradeoff given a IIIA backer weighs similar and also reinforces the plate as additional ballistic backer.
>>65487725It's a 200rnd SAW pouch.
>>65489661>literally says canteen pouchLooks nice, but all my canteen pouches from Venture were jag and waay less than $60.
>>65489661>>65489675I'm so grateful for these valuable insights. Worst general.
>>65489675>4 interest free installments of $16.50Imagine actually offering people the opportunity to go into debt for a canteen pouch.>>65489688It's a pouch spongecuh
>>65489675>>literally says canteen pouch2qt canteens also fit perfectly in 200rnd SAW pouchesdingus
>>65489711You armor autists could at least stay in your lane if you don't have anything to say. You ruined this place and now you drive people away who want to talk about gear.
>>65477584Floss is shit for sewing. It's old boomer logic.
>>65489748>You ruined this place by contributing!!!!Shit we must be on twitter. Didn't see that.>and now you drive people away who want to talk about gearSaying a pouch is a pouch drives people away? Holy victim mentality. Your question was already thoroughly answered.
>>65489764Actual sinew thread or Gutermann heavyweight silk thread [waxed] is gonna be the best thread you can reliably get. Not a fan of synthetics due to heat friction sometimes causing melting. Wind a spool or just take a 33m spool of heavyweight silk thread if you don't wanna wax it [mostly stops any fraying or knotting which isnt that big of an issue if you aren't actually sewing something large] and you'll be golden.
>>65488143Somehow this thing already has 14 bids and is up to $40. Not to put seller on blast but I'm suspecting a shill bid. It's almost seven days out from close. You don't raise this far out. That's ebay auction 101.
>>65489117Yes.
>>65489768I'm asking for insights from people who own one I can read the description. If you don't know just don't say anything. Saying some sarcastic shit or "idk" is not contributing. You know this though. Why won't you be upfront with me why are you still pretending to help?
>>65489784>whiningChinese version is probably same price as one easy payment.>but but but I NEED VALIDATIONThe description answers your question. Take dimensions of the below and what else you want to fit in it.>This 2qt Canteen Pouch easily holds a two-quart canteen, an M249 SAW drum, a JetBoil Cooking System, or numerous rifle magazines (eight 30-round 5.56 magazines) in place.>Why won't you be upfront with me >begging on an anonymous internet forumBruh, take a chill pill. You can... ignore people who you don't wanna respond to. It's kinda cool actually.
>>65489773elite ball knowledge.
>>65489797It's cool I'm leaving. You can go back to talking about armor and only armor.
>>65489815Don't let the >>65489117 lamp and the >>65486358 lasers hit you on the way out.
Return and departure of the Velcro fetishist
>>65489827>You will spend $66 on a canteen pouch and you will be happy.In other news, the dude on Gunbroker has now sold one hundred $30 X-CUH LPs. Also someone bought Botach's 24 6x6 Protech 2230 side plates, so the total supply of 2230s is about exhausted.Pity. If it's $350 a set or less, it's the best "budget IV+" on the market without question.
>>65489784I am >>65489661 and have two of them. They are 200 round saw pouches in dimension. Make of that what you will.
>>65488555Hello, philly Trash Sniper. How are you doing today? You posted a few threads back, requesting information on affording body armor that had huge Level IV potential with actually very substantial downside risk. Does that ring a bell?The name of the plan, jacking electricity from the Walgreens off Kensington Ave to run a bitcoin miner. This is a cutting edge tactic out of River Wards, having received immediate Philly Jawn approval on the next generation of fent hustles that have both huge gear and casino applications. Now, right now, Trash Sniper, an outdated beat to shit bitcoin miner trades over-the-counter at 159 dollars for 100Terahashes a second. And by the way, Anon, our analysts indicate with custom firmware it could go a heck of a lot higher than that. Your return on a mere $159 investment could be upwards of $1,200 a year! (or five years in prison)>assuming your electricity is "free" because it costs $2,000+ a year to run otherwiseAnon, one thing I can promise you, even in this market, is that I never ask my anons to judge me on my losers. I ask them to judge me on my winners, because I have so few. And in the case of crackhead bitcoin miner hustling, based on zero technical factors out there, Anon, we are looking at probably better returns but higher stakes than a casino. The SWAT cops will come and then you can pickpocket them for their credential blocked super plates.https://www.ebay.com/itm/157734112460
>>65489892He already left bro
>>65489711>go into debt for a canteen pouch.Is it really debt if it's interest free? More like a commitment. I had a girl like that once, except I had no interest and no commitment.
>>65489740Putting canteens in your ammo pouch will get you killed in the tempo of battle>last mag!>here!>thanks, but I'm not thirsty!Don't be that guy.
>>65489815>only armorYou have not seen the light.
>>65490096Yes, because if you don't make all four payments they'll report your shit to the bureaus and ruin your credit.>>65490100They should have to succ your bladder instead.>>65490105Spoken like a man who tapped the electricity at dollar general with some bitcoin miners.
>>65489906You make an interesting case which I will certainly consider. I’m not limited by location and have mastered the art of drywall. I like to think a laundromat would be a prime target. By the by, you should try the muffin recipe. There are several revisions to the recipe you’ll have to work out, but they are fantastic. A little bit of honey and butter while warming in the stove and gluten free at that.
>>65490158>I like to think a laundromat would be a prime target.That's a good point since these miners in minecraft often require 240V IndustrialCraft circuits and the moderators' sheep wool laundromat should have the wiring. The question is how you're doing the ethernet and also assigning the ASIC miners to an emerald villager wallet which won't trace enemy players back to you in PVP. >I’m not limited by location and have mastered the art of drywallKensington would be good. Super Fent is going around, which means zombie linemen won't stay around too long. The problem is that those are loud AF and will tick off the endermen AND the admins. Also thermal management. Shit gets hot.>By the by, you should try the muffin recipe. There are several revisions to the recipe you’ll have to work out, but they are fantastic. A little bit of honey and butter while warming in the stove and gluten free at that.Mhm, nice. /gq/ cookbook when.
Damn, real cyberpunk shit.https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/malaysias-tenaga-nasional-incurs-losses-more-than-1-billion-crypto-power-theft-2025-11-19/
How does the usgi cold weather gear system work? Do you wear the level 1 and 2 tops and bottoms and then whatever outter layer you get? Wanted to get some cold weather gear for winter camping and some shooting as well. Will be doing a nvg 2gun in december.
https://jinwudun.com/products/jwd-wendy3-0-tactical-bulletproof-helmet-american-standard-iiia-ga2-level-uhmwpe-material-spray-polyurea-coating?variant=49861429133559How sus are Jinwudun helmets? $190 free shipping is tempting the shit out of me as a brokie.
>>65490546You’re overthinking it. Don’t get confused by the levels. Base layer. Insulating layer. Shell. Base layer is mainly for sweat. This is either dedicated thermals or think like merino long sleeves and similar. Insulating retains heat. Lot of fleece of varying weights in this category. Shell helps keep that heat in and protects from elements; especially wind. Depending where you’re going, you’re probably not going to need a huge set. It may even be cheaper to source outside of surplus too.
>>65490546Adding to >>65490654you have massive flexibility. You don’t have to follow any sort of magic rule. Don and shed layers as you like. On most of my trips, I’m wearing a fleece at most. Shell only really comes on at night or inclement weather. Note you have some better flexibility if you go commercial. I really like the Patagonia vests in this case. Sometimes different clothing articles like that help you find that happy medium where you’re not constantly shedding layers. Remember the point is to achieve the maximum level of comfort. Too hot or too cold means you need to dial things in.
>>65490628Seems to vary. For their older helmets, there are test reports buried on their site, and the BFD numbers are unimpressive. Up to 32mm against 9x19mm for a IIIA helmet, so .44 is gonna be ugly.However, some newer models are showing better numbers. Not to mention Jinwudun is the only relativelt affordable source for a full-stop Level III helmet... on paper. The problem is that Jinwudun is a low end "B-grade" manufacturer and undercuts Militech / LiTai on both price and quality. The materials are cheap. I have their IIIA skirt and while it checks out, ballistically, the MOLLE is wearing out faster than I'd like. I've made some modifications and have it set up with 4x RF1 PE plates and it's actually now pretty slick, but if Militech made one I def would have saved the extra change.To use a LAM analogy, Militech is Holosun. Jinwudun is SMSLaser.As an alternative, $190 for a Jinny Wu or $75 for a used Ceradyne BA3A from Botach. I think we all know which company has the better rep here. https://surplus.botach.com/3m-ceradyne-ba3a-ballistic-helmet-pasgt-cut-nij-level-iiia-police-trade/WarMag also sells a Chinese "IIIA+" NP550 steel helmet for just over $200. It's about a pound heavier than a BA3A but stops 12 gauge 3" magnum slugs with less BFD than this Jinwudun stops 9mm.
>>65490666Oh thanks man, I see some people mod their surplus ACH helmets to get a high cut with a jigsaw blade/add rails and NVG mount could I do the same thing on that BA3A?
>>65490704You CAN, but it's risky and could compromise the helmet. Risk goes up if the work isn't sterile, which is what your jigsaw blade idea sounds like. A boltless ratchet rail for $80-90 off ebay gets you side rails and an NV mount with no risk.https://www.ebay.com/itm/174546759463The boltless kit fits the BA3A like a glove. The only tricky bit is running earpro with a full cut. Depending on your head shape you could fit a pair of ears under the helmet (I can fit walker slims under my BA3A).Also the boltless rail kit is fairly wide, so it may not work with certain mandibles or ballistic visors.
>>65490725Sweet I'll definitely pick up a BA3A and grab one of those kits later. Thanks a ton man.
>>65490739Not a problem. That gets you out of buying second-rate Chinesium and into buying Ceradyne, which is probably the second most reliable name in armor, first being Tencate / Integris, except for that time they fucked the adhesive up on the 92547 and 96448 SOCOM GEN-III plates, but that's totally unrelated to the BA3A.
Side bar, this dude has a United Shield Kent IIIA shield. $453 shipped, 10.4lb, 32x22. Dealer sample, serial number is 002 (lol). Actually pretty nice specs.https://www.ebay.com/itm/227150018033US is a good cop shop brand, 4th fiddle behind Point Blank, Safariland, and Armor Express.
>>65490546>How does the usgi cold weather gear system work? Do you wear the level 1 and 2 tops and bottoms and then whatever outter layer you get? Wanted to get some cold weather gear for winter camping and some shooting as well. Will be doing a nvg 2gun in december.Here's the original instructional DVDhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ-yQxbIvMY
Thoughts on Finnish M05 camo for the South? Specifically Appalachia area.The pattern itself tickles my brain in a pleasant manner
>>65490950Works great but the gear isn't common enough to be worth minmaxing for. If you like it because it's cool, buy some. But depending on the LARP you're building your kit around having a distinct uniform only gets you noticed by OSINT autists where you might otherwise blend in in a sea of multicam or woodland.
>>65490965>OSINTYou see, this is the stone cold austin advice /gq/ gives that reddit doesn't. The more you dress unique, the easier it is to ID you.This goes double thanks to the nature of modern surveilance.
>>65490965I was thinking of having either a top or pants in M05 then the rest of the gear in a similar pattern like MC Tropic and/or ranger green. My carrier is ranger green
>>65490997Obviously the best thing is to not be seen in the first place, but I understand what you're all saying.I just find M05 very neat and fitting for my region. Especially from spring to autumn, probably early winter too before it snows.It's just neat and pleases my tism
>>65491005Yeah, but thermals kinda fuck that up and it's only gonna get worse from here.
>>65490965I wouldn't worry about practical concerns, the US has clearly accepted its role as the yehudi cum sock so I wouldn't worry about anything but personal actions like home defense.
>>65491007The day thermals become common amongst NIMBY bored boomers and Karens is the day liberty truly dies
>>65491017>home defense man!I've been trying to get more anons into ballistic shields for that exact reason. Something to hide the family behind or use as hard cover if you're in a house / apartment / motel room / crack shack with easily-penetrated walls.Faster to grab, still can use a handgun with most models, covers more than a PC and there's no concern about behind armor blunt trauma. Also legal in NY (in theory). You either have to buy Chinese however or buy used because new shield prices are jacked.United Shield wants a couple grand for a new >>65490777.
>>65491032Level III+/IV shield on a dolly sound viable for home defense? One of those windowed ones
>>65491023Prices are constantly dropping. If you wait you can pick up Raytheon Palm imagers for like $200. BST sensor, so they don't NUC, and sensor resolution is... decent... for a 20+ year old imager.I have one, works great but getting batteries that fit is a bitch. Then we're talking security cams, flock / axon cams, drones, etc. Plenty of thermals out there. Even some phone cameras...
These straps are pretty great. I just walked I didn't run or do any kung fu in it. That's all I want, just walking out to where I shoot and walking around to different places to shoot. I already have an enhanced deluxe edition in the works but I'm not posting that until it's ready.
>>65491038IVs are extremely heavy unless you're an absolute baller and have a boron carbide or LIBA CX-type pellet array shield. Those can push into the $10,000+ arena new and are credential-blocked.This ceramic one is a 22x40" and weighs 100lb with the dolley.https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-level-4-mobile-ballistic-shield-w-trolly-police-trade/They have a smaller IV here as a hand shield. Two grand, but I'm pretty sure it's Silicon Carbide like their plates and would be $6,000 easy from a not-Chinese mfg. 34lb.https://botach.com/battleshield-level-4-ballistic-shield/However, if you're willing to go III+ and homebrew the dolley, you could get a Protech 1936P (this is PE, so M855 is right out) from Botach for around $450 and get pretty decent coverage for 35lb + dolley weight. Steel version from 1990 is also available still, I think. Will get its ass kicked by M193. Shields are basically just huge plates and "plate rules" still apply.
>>65491059HmmPerhaps using a motorized hand truck/dolly as the base would work better for heavier plates. Maneuverability goes out the window but by the point this is being used, there wasn't much of a way out anyway you knowWould be quite the menacing sight for the standard burglar; seeing a fuck ass tall shield and a gun barrel sticking out from the side just whirring at you at a decent speed
>>65491038Also Jinwudun has a SiC ceramic III+ for $1,200. 20x35.5. They have a hell of a shield selection.https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iii-bulletproof-shield-silicon-carbide-ceramic-material-spray-polyurea-layerI think a big part of the issue is that you'd probably want to harden your domicile first. Reinforce the door, longer screws, 3M security film on windows. Then do a shield because a shield won't help if the bad guys kicked your door in at 2:30 AM and are already on your ass twenty seconds later. Also, you obviously can't run around with a big ass shield on a dolley, especially up or down stairs, so yes body armor is still better in many circumstances. Everything has a time and a place.
>>65491073Motorizing the dolley isn't a bad idea. Tencate and Mehler Vario have that for some Euro-model shields, including high dollar "stair climber" dolleys. The question is how to get Tencate GIGN performance on an anon's budget.> Maneuverability goes out the window but by the point this is being used, there wasn't much of a way out anyway you knowReally it's just to push a hallway where otherwise you'd be getting hosed. I'm talking two dipshits with switched glocks and stendos firing blind through paper thin walls. >Would be quite the menacing sight for the standard burglar; seeing a fuck ass tall shield and a gun barrel sticking out from the side just whirring at you at a decent speedProbably worth noting that a steel shield has dramatically better multi hit, and if a dolley handles the weight, this is one application where steel MAY be a better call than ceramic or PE.>but M193 (?)Can be handled with a 650BHN or higher steel. Not a fan of the ultrahard 700BHN and up, anons have said that shit is brittle.
>>65491089>Heavy-Duty Electric 4-Wheel Hand Truck with Dual Fork & Adjustable Handle>950 KW motor>Up to 750 lbs on flat surfaces, 500 lbs on inclinesObviously this specific model is over kill, but motorized hand trucks do exist
Also just had a thought. If you take Adept's new QBC-265 / Oxide bonded SiC discussed in >>65487555 and >>65487643, and applied it to shields, you'd be getting a ~10% weight reduction versus SiC-TiB2, which hasn't seen known use in shields yet, and at a minor cost increase to boot if you source Chinese. >okay but how do we get thisGilliam can source ceramic from Adept as they did with the 9969, and can make armor "in any size at any protection level" with enough lead time, so you COULD commission a shield from them using OBSiC and chinese PE which would very likely outperform the Jinwudun and Battle Steel models.
>>65491097>Up to 750 lbs on flat surfaces, 500 lbs on inclinesAw fuck yeah, we can get the Chinese to make us a huge multi-body bunker shield rated for 14.5mm API with that weight limit.Thinking something like this but beefed up:https://gearind.com/products/ballistic-trolley-mounted-shieldJust in case we get home invaded by a BTR.
>>65491032>if you're in a house / apartment / motel room / crack shack with easily-penetrated wallsi.e. in the USA. Problem with shields is the expense unless you're going DIY on a sheet of polycarbonate.>still can use a handgunOr one-hand a bullpup rifle. I've always found it funny that the US is so fixated on what "the military" is doing when they're more likely to be doing the exact opposite of whatever that is.
>>65491124At some point you just have to make a house out of bricks anon.
>>65491138>Problem with shields is the expense unless you're going DIY on a sheet of polycarbonate.If you can do steel the price of used shields isn't bad, but anything over IIIA is gonna be a sack of bricks.Steel shields are also inherently drop proof, unlike ceramic, and if they're III shouldn't have issues with 7.62x39 MSC, unlike PE, which still has a lot of CONUS stock.>Or one-hand a bullpup rifle. I've always found it funny that the US is so fixated on what "the military" is doing when they're more likely to be doing the exact opposite of whatever that is.That United Shield Kent shield is designed so you can slip your arm through it and two-hand a rifle as well. Worth consideration. Problem is that they're mostly IIIA and the rifle rated versions are big money. I think the III+ is 8k or so.>>65491146If we're seriously talking 14.5mm then I'd want some kind of specialty building materials like what Pinnacle used to sell.
For one modern example, TacScorp sells a Crucible ~750BHN shield for $470 good for M193 up to 3,300, plus other "III+" threats, but it's relatively tiny at 14x24 and still weighs 18lb. A hand shield.https://tacticalscorpiongear.com/tactical-scorpion-gear-armored-shields-choice-of-style.html?A body bunker would be well north of 60lb.
>>65491005It's good camo and I have two sets in my closet. Wouldn't wear it in a "real" hypothetical but it's fun to rock when larping in the woods. Be realistic about what your actual use for them is and have fun.
>>65491168Nah, cavity wall is going to stop anything reasonably man-portable, and a berm in the way of direct fire will fix anything unreasonable. If you're worried about vehicles that's a location problem, and if you're concerned about guys lugging mortars or recoilless rifles up to your place that's a lifestyle issue.Compound is a pejorative term but it's basically where I live. Landscaping with a 5t digger is great fun, stylish AND functional.
>>65491223>cavity wall is going to stop anything reasonably man-portableDSG's 300-grain ultraheavy tungsten 7.62x51 would like a word, but yeah, that's fair. If you have to bust out ultra-exotic ammo then it's not realistic. >If you're worried about vehicles that's a location problem, and if you're concerned about guys lugging mortars or recoilless rifles up to your place that's a lifestyle issue.I'm just saying, 3D metal printers in 10-20 years could easily enable, with assembly, printed barrack busters. Fill with homebrew napalm or diesel-fertilizer mix cans for super happy ANFO fun time. Would certainly negate body armor...Then, of course, drones.>Compound is a pejorative term but it's basically where I live. Landscaping with a 5t digger is great fun, stylish AND functional.Very nice. You have trenches and stuff like that set up?
>>65491275>trenches and stuff"Retaining walls" and "raised beds" everywhere, plus all the natural wadis in this dusty shithole mean with a little work you'd need fascines to get up here. I forget the local term for them, washes maybe. Major factor is there's no external windows and the outer wall is mostly buried, helps keep the heat down but you know when I started on this place I thought two birds one stone.
>>65491300Very, very nice. Sounds like you've got that locked down.
>>65490628>le troll face
>>65491313>not buying the Level III helmet that's nearly 6lbshamehttps://jinwudun.com/products/jwd-level-iii-bulletproof-helmet-m88-helmet-15m-defense-7-62-51-m80-bullet-pe-material
>>65491310Had plenty of time during the coof so mostly yeah. There's a few things I'd have done differently, shotcrete is a pain in the arse and properly burying the Nissen hut garages never worked out. Not quite as Thunderbirds as I'd hoped for in the end. Still, happy with it.
>>65491007Thermals are not the final solution to everything. In heaviliy forested areas during summer its hard to see shit trough the leaves. Having leafy half gilly helps alot. Also if you are not larping with thermals - it does take a while to start identifinf what is sun heated fallem branch or rock and what is not. I spenr way more time analyzing pixels that i thought when i first larped with thermal. There was even a sitation where i guess water was evaporatinf from a bush or something i dont know - but i could see a guy with my eyeball behind the bush but not trough termal. So good camo still matters even with thermals.
>>65491332Agreed, until MWIR and then multispectral stuff becomes more common. Also thermals with improved NETD and sensor resolution will only make that sort of stuff easier. We're a few years out from high quality 1280x1024 being sub-3k.
I fucking love saw pouches.
>>65489354Even so, Buff's Botach III+ plates survived a lot more impacts than the NIJ multi-hit specification. Given he might've been given ringers, I effectively treat mine as 0101.04 tier single-hit SRTs that stop III+ tier threats but are not trustworthy on multi-hit or heavy drops.Ironically my "daily driver" plates I dig out whenever the local retards are shooting into the sky are my Italian pasta III PEs, which are 0101.03 but still stop all lead core FMJs up through M80 ball. I might be the only non-LEO within maybe twenty miles who has anything steel core or even M855, but there's plenty of durr rifles firing JSPs, so one of those coming through my window at reduced velocity is my top threat estimate.
>>65491567Where the hell do you live if there's enough high-density rain to have a go-to plate, fucking Beirut?>>65491421They're handy but I'd swap them for more PLCE GP pouches in a heartbeat if I could find any in decent condition.
>>65491628Maybe I'm just a little paranoid when the drunk locals fire skywards on holidays, probably never hit within a hundred yards of my house but you never know, especially when the trailer park a couple miles away imitates Gettysburg on the 4th and New Years. Mostly sounds like pistols and fireworks but there's always at least one shotgun and thuddy thuddy durr rifle mixed in there. I usually toss my shitty Chinese plate carrier over my pajamas, put on my old PASGT helmet, and shitpost until the shooting stops in the early morning hours. A little uncomfortable, but it's definitely fun in the best /k/ fashion. It might even save my life someday. Maybe.
>>65487725unless you’re trying to fit something big like a 200 round saw drum or a canteen, I’m not a fan of big pouches with no internal organization. can’t use it for nods, it’s unpadded. also a little expensive for what it is.
>>65474250took your recc, I discovered the shaw pcp doesn’t really like button snap straps, since it’s rigid piece of tegris. I also envisioned being able to stack three pouches in a column, not the case. This is what I landed on for the final result.
Were there any helmet deals? For my purposes I'm fine with chinksoft gear as long as it can handle weight well enoughJust need a helmet that has an NVG mount already so I can find a way to nigger rig some deer antlers to the front of it using said mount
