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/gq/ Infographic Emporium:
https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6
Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF

>Last time on /gq/, philly trash sniper mined bitcoin. Anon discovered unemployment. Gilliam is based. RMA sucks. Gay Russians. Things!

>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.178
CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.
>Special Rifle Threat:
/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)
Budget: Hesco L211
Mid-Range: Hesco M210
High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.
>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):
Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001
Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*
High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DND
Elite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^
>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):
Budget: Protech 2120-5
Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513
High-End: LTC 28780**
Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HW
Elite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)
>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):
Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)
Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)
High-End: Used LTC 28595**
Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**
Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**
>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):
/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)
Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*
Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)
High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)
Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept Emperor
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)
>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)
Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)
Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)
High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)
Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)
Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)

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>>65498587
>Asking specifically on them pistol lams.
Ah, so this is second hand but the flashlights allegedly had workmanship issues and Rovyvon doesn't like to deal warranty-wise. Like a step up from SMS, who stealth-edited waterproofing ratings, but a step down from Holosun.
>I think you’ll have more use for the cum detector than I do
Weren't you gonna buy a shitty old bitcoin miner? Gotta know if they spooged on it. That's a fire hazard. You can't put 4,000 watts through that shit cuh.
>Desperate measures are sometimes required for Ceradyne.
Ceradyne is officially bipolar (and dead). Either it's basic bitch shit like the BA3A or it's the stuff of legends. Only the "SAEC" is worth.. uh... that stuff, or the 96034 / 2572575. The holy trinity of unobtanium plates.
>What did you hear?
The GL4 is highly regarded, GL8 is the cum detector. The full power version of the GL4 last I checked is still a huge price increase for basically no reason, which is shitty.

I'm looking to put together a plate carrier. My options for carrier color are coyote brown and ranger green. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and other than multicam, I can get pretty much any camo pattern I want for my pouches. What base color or carrier should I get? Trying to find pictures online of people having their kit outside is difficult, unsurprisingly.

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>>65499005
Be like A2 (who iirc is also from around there). Go ranger green (and multicam black).

>>65499007
I didn't realize A2 was from the PNW. Ranger green was my lead choice but idk about MCB lol, probably gonna be paired with m81 or some niche camo.

>>65499005
ranger green or woodland

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>>65499005
go innawoods. Is it more green or more brown? It doesn't really matter for either of them since they're neutral and a good base for different camos.

>>65499011
One vote for tiger stripe

Can somebody call Jinwudun and tell them to make the IIIA skirt in colors other than Russian, federal agent / local swat cop LARPing as nat guard, and edgelord?
https://jinwudun.com/products/nij-iiia-tactical-bulletproof-skirt-nylon-fabric-equipped-with-laser-cut-molle-system-pe-material

Shit would be tits M81

>>65499005
>Pacific Northwest
your in a rain forest, not a desert, get the green

>>65498998
I’ve got my eye on the GL4. Sinking feeling that I’m going to end up with a collection of everything units that will fit no known holsters. It would look fairly ridiculous on a five seven, so this is plus.
>Ceradyne & Bitcoin miners
I will have to bide my time on eBay. We go straight for the mines if the bid fails. Already had a few close calls. The more I look at this plate, the more suspect it looks. Need to brush up on plate testing.

>>65499016
It's definitely more green overall, I was just concerned that ranger green with a green dominant camo would blob out after some distance. Sounds like ranger green is the move here.

>>65499029
There's something funny with the bidding on that plate. Maybe it's an ECSAPI? I don't think that's likely but it would explain why the auction is hot. Single hit M993 protection at ESAPI weight, matching REV. G in all other categories is REALLY attractive.
As for condition, per DocGKR, you don't know for sure unless you X-ray. Back in the 0101.04 days, you imaged plates yearly. If you don't know, you don't know. All about your risk tolerance. Like I think the two anons rolling 18 year old SOF ESAPIs are playing with fire, but I roll "expired" Protechs.

>>65499047
It got a bit of attention then has mellowed out. I suspect it will pick back up over the weekend. I do have access to such equipment, but I don’t think it is permissible to use for this measure. We will see if I finally get to set the table with single pl8

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Does anyone itt have a Tacswap account?
I can't make one with my non-US credit card and I want to message a seller.

Can someone please message them on my behalf?

>>65499080
Don't forget people are kinda broke atm and buying a single used plate under false pretenses is a flier.
>I do have access to such equipment, but I don’t think it is permissible to use for this measure.
Never hurts to ask.

What I'd personally do is just save up a while for used Protech 2230-1s when they drop. Effectively almost the same weight as an ESAPI (5.45lb + soft armor for ESAPI vs 6.8lb standalone) but much, much stronger in terms of M2AP v0 and can space shots tighter. An XSAPI can't stop M2AP at 3,510+ man.
However, I can't tell you when the 2230-1s or better yet 2240s will be surped out. Warranties should start running dry in the next year.

>>65499119
In it for the love of the game, but doubtful will stick around trying to beat outbids. Will certainly be interesting to figure out what exactly we’re looking what otherwise. Can wait. I have a catalog of pistol lights/lasers to dig through. P.id pro hasn’t completely been written off.

>>65499141
That's the fun of buying second hand armor. You could be gambling on a roached ESAPI or an ECSAPI - and for the record, nobody I've seen has ECSAPIs at all or XSAPIs past REV. C not counting shitty VTP GEN III ones that don't work. For some reason, ECSAPIs are super tightly controlled. If people have them, they aren't being posted online.

Anyone want to take a bet on when B6O (boron suboxide) ceramic strike face plates will be available? I see the Chinese are making moves with B6O-SiC in the labs. My guess, five years commercially and they'll be pricey as shit. Chinese might also get somewhere with AlMgB14-TiB2, which seems to be the play for very high level armor.
B6O would, in theory, permit Level IV plates to get close to the 4lb mark. RF2s and such could get to 2.5lb. Expect $4k a set for either option, but that will go down when the Chinese get to it.
The important bit about exotic ceramics, including the new B-C-Si-Ti multiphase shit Adept has in the GEN2 Archon, is that they will inevitably permit a .50 BMG AP-rated plate at traditional Level IV weight as companies continue to perfect trauma padding and PE. Very exciting.

>>65499119
>almost the same weight as an ESAPI (5.45lb + soft armor for ESAPI vs 6.8lb standalone) but much, much stronger in terms of M2AP v0 and can space shots tighter.
Spec sheet or guess work? Have you hit up protech yet about this plate?

>>65499293
I found it first by luck on this website:
https://adshumanitarian.com/online-catalog/ocie/safariland-protech-armor-systems-2230-1-nij-06-type-iv-rifle-plate/
Notably, the website specifies a black cover. The normal Protech 2230 is green, like mine. I then saw a Protech 2230 in pic rel >>65498982 with a black cover, which reveals it's the 2230-1. Some rando Sheriff's department.
The website has the specs. PE-Glass hybrid backer reduces weight to 6.8lb from the aramid backer 2230 at 7.5lb. It's explicitly an improved 2230, so it retains all other abilities. That means III+IV dual rating and the stupid high M2AP v0, because it wouldn't be an improvement if it had downgrades. The 2230 is similarly an improved 2220-1. The 2240 is thus an improved 2230-1, although that's the only "known" thing about the 2240 other than it was NIJ certified and discontinued in 2024. I got the last bit from Safariland. This in TURN means there's likely an improved, ABSOLUTELY UNEQUAL 2240-1.
>Have you hit up protech yet about this plate?
Man they pretended the 2240 didn't even exist until I showed them the NIJ CPL. They won't talk to me about the 2230-1.
Maybe I'll try Hesco, since the 2230-1 actually appears to be one of theirs.

Keep in mind even the base 2230 was never intended for sale to civilians. Safariland won't reveal info willy-nilly.

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I didn't bother to check last thread but the FCPC v6 is on the horizon
https://www.tacmat.fr/produit/fcpc-v6-base-ferro-concepts-france/
>carrier is now available in SAPI sizes as opposed to generic sizes, including medium long (remember paraclete carriers in ML?
>snap for at bottom of front plate bag for OTB needs
>some cable management doodads integrated at the bottom of the front plate bag and below the admin pocket
>admin pocket surface is improved for EUD mounting
>rear bag has a retention flap for the plate (I'm pretty sure this was added to the v5 a year or 2 ago)
>laser cut molle on the bottom and attachment loops on the sides of the rear bag
>shoulder straps are shortened slightly
>drag handle now integrated, no longer requiring a tubular nylon or otherwise one to be fashioned

>>65499005
If you're mounting pouches, it's really not going to matter. Both are within tolerances of what we used to just call "khaki" before everyone decided to start being complete fucking poofters.

>>65499868
>including medium long (remember paraclete carriers in ML?
Outstanding, now somebody can buy the last sets of MH3 CQBs Gear Zone Tactical has had for fifteen years.
https://www.gearzonetactical.com/Paraclete-Multi-Hit-III-Hard-Armor-Plate_p_2076.html

>>65499017
Im wearing ts now.

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>>65499022
>other than Russian, federal agent / local swat cop LARPing as nat guard, and edgelord?
Can I get Desert TS?

>> 65497968

i do not have a vir, I just had a buddy who had one and the whole thing just felt a little loose and cheap and the turret adjustments were not very tactile.

Something to think about with lasers on the topic of not wanting to re-zero them is that you’re going to have to reconfirm your zero with a laser. Your laser is attached the frame of a handgun, there’s going to be a little flex in the frame itself over shooting and a little play in the relationship of your barrel slide and frame. even rifle mounted lasers have drifting zeros.

with a handgun certainly in defensive usage, you are fighting at distances where a little shift in your zero may not make a huge difference, with that being said, it’s not necessarily a bad thing that you’re going to be periodically re-zeroing the gun because of battery changes you should be just doing that anyways

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>>65498963
Y'all gonna die in shame with loose and missing buttons. Absolutely disgusting.

>>65500312
ngl the buttons on the rizz cloak for attaching the fur collar are too goddamn small.
Also, we got new chinesium on the horizon. I would like to remind everyone that GILLIAM ARMS, THE ROUGE CROIX PURSUVIANT, sources ceramics from ADEPT, which means QUATROID multiphase ceramic will soon be available to the chinamaxxers.
As long as you don't mind no drop pro, a 5lb "Diet Archon" RF3 may soon be available for around $1k a set.

>>65499011
>A2 was from the PNW
Doubt. Every attention seeking outdoor selfie he's posted looks closer to the Colorado Plateau, above 5500'.

>>65500322
>the buttons on the rizz cloak for attaching the fur collar are too goddamn small.
It's always so.ething? The pockets of my Desert Tiger Stripe smock are too small for my big American hands.>>65499981 The good news is the tactical/survival travel sew kits come with buttons and safety pins to keep your wang from flopping out when your zipper gets bitten or by the indigenous comfort women.

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Now listen up cuhs. New player in the body armor scene. Apxbactra Hunting. They have two piece Level IIIA steel plates for $79.19 a pair, shipped. This is even cheaper than Protech X-Cuh LP, because those are $30 a plate plus $15 to ship each one.
We're talking 2.87lb a 10x12 for standalone IIIA performance, which is a bit more than half the weight of an X-CAL. Still terrible weight to protection ratio, but this could be worth experimenting with for unconventional poorfag strategies. I'm thinking combination BFD-reducer and soft armor, or a temu Adept Foundation ripoff you can put in front of PE plates to shore them up versus M855 - which would obviously require testing.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/407140365717

>>65500369
Also, you can look for the cheapest motor cycle helmets possible.

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>>65500336
Not true either, I saw him up in Kensington last week. He was trying to shotgun jack power from three street lamps to power five bitcoin miners off a homemade extension cord, really intricate stuff, to fund a new set of quad nods.
It then rained and his bitcoin miners exploded. This event, not Ukraine, is why everyone who knows their shit now wears frag armor.

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>>65500349
Yeah that's based I'll keep that in mind if I ever go to Thailand
>>65500385
You can go build a resort in the middle of the ocean.

Let's see if /gq/ has improv-
>wizard hat AI slop OP
>plate fag still blog post spamming
Okay I'll be back in a year and hopefully this is over.

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>>65500439
This man does not ride with GILLIAM.

Apex is now selling mystery meat pouches.
https://www.apexarmorsolutions.com/pouches-softgoods

>>65500439
>>plate fag still blog post spamming
Hes argued on two different occasions with me for multiple threads. He then accuses me of being people whos existance is a mystery. Fat. Knows his shit though.

>>65500425
I will call it Oceania and you will tremble at my power ...and the cost of bottled water fresh water.

>>65500677
I'm sorry, I don't remember. For you, those two different battles were the most important 4chan threads of your life. For Autismo, it was... Tuesday.

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>>65500694
Hello, Anon. How are you doing today? You posted a few threads back, requesting information on cheap shit that had huge larping potential with very little downside risk. Does that ring a bell?
The name of the company, Apex Armor Solutions. It is a cutting edge pepper grenade dealer out of Washington state, having received immediate 4chan approval on the next generation of kinky sex flashbangs that have both huge military and civilian applications. Now, right now, Anon, the used bitcoin miners trade over-the-counter at 75 dollars for 95TH/s. And by the way, Anon, our analysts indicate it could go a heck of a lot higher than that. Your return on a mere $75 investment could be $3.63 a day! That is one Apex Armor Solutions pouch a month! Fuck the drinking water!

>>65500759
You had me at kinky. Now, thinnest destitute pl8 recommend por favor. I want to make an armored gimp suit.

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>>65500814
Thinnest and destitute? If you don't mind the weight and lack of serious protection, thinnest you're gonna get is this 1.8mm alloy steel cheapo version of the plate in >>65500369. It's not even IIIA, and it still weighs 2.2lb for maybe Level II protection, which is significantly more than a Hesco 3801 which stops 5.56x45mm M193 or 7.62x51mm M80 six times, but that's an inch thick plate and costs a lotta money.
You can buy 38 of these plates for the price of two 3801s.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/407107606765
Actual serious answer is the Gilliam GARMS 1.

>>65500707
>i dont remember the last thread
lol

>>65500862
yeah that's how meaningless it was.

Alright. New PLATE DEBATE topic. How fucked are you if you're up against armor and the only thing you've got is a shotgun? What armor, what ammo, whqt distance? /k/ decides.

>>65500881
KS-23 says hello to your plates
It may not penetrate level IV or III+, but you'll FEEL it

What's the practical usability of an AN/PVS-5 with tubes from 1990, I'm talking 600-800FOM, on a good day, maybe?
At least it's a no-blem dual tube and I got it for a couple hundo

I'm getting the feeling this will lead to a very unwise financial decision in the near future
The night vision virus has caught me boys, pants-on-ankles and all

>>65500837
What’s the catch for the GARMS 1?
>>65500881
Not fucked at all. Granted distance applies but shotgun is not something I’d want to go up against.
>>65500934
You can make anything practical. Just wait until you hit the pistol light/laser rabbithole.

>>65500759
>requesting information on cheap shit that had huge larping potential with very little downside risk. Does that ring a bell?
It does not, because I would never do that. I've had decent plates since that NY thing, and no, I never needed them. Now a cheap JPC 2.0 knock off I could use.

>>65500954
>Granted distance applies but shotgun is not something I’d want to go up against.
Distance is not relevant with rifled slugs or head/groin shots.

>>65500933
The only recorded death from behind armor blunt trauma was a guy getting shot by a .45-70 while wearing IIA. The vest "stopped" the round but BFD was north of 100mm. That's greater BFS than many Level IV plates getting hit by .50 BMG ball.
Against soft armor a KS-23 would be extremely persuasive, especially with those steel slugs, but against Level IV? It's too easy to put some CAPs behind the plate. Boom, problem solved. BABT minimized at the expense of thickness.
>>65500934
Probably still better than couple hundo digi NV. At least doesn't have bluetooth / wifi backdoors, worst comes to worse.
>>65500954
>What’s the catch for the GARMS 1
There isn't really a catch. It does M193 standalone but pisses hot over 44mm BFD against 7.62x39 MSC and 7.62x51 M80. Needs quality HG2 soft armor to get those numbers down and fully meet NIJ specs.
The 2.5lb Helion is overall superior versus GARMS 1 + soft backer. I use my GARMS 1s to soup up a Jinwudun skirt, relying on the IIIA below. A guy with a BALCS getup would benefit from the GARMS 1 over the Helion unless he wanted safety margin.
>Not fucked at all. Granted distance applies but shotgun is not something I’d want to go up against
The tricky bit is that shotguns can pepper areas outside armor, but suck ass against plates and buck can be easily handled by auxillary soft. Deltoids, forearms, skirts, abdominal / groin, etc. Great against most helmets with slugs though.
Going Ukraine-style on wide soft armor incidentially would be great versus 00 buck CONUS, and shotguns are VERY common.

>>65500976
>I never needed them.
Good! I'm glad you never needed them. Better to have and not need than need and not have. What are you rolling?
>rifled slugs
Don't pierce IIIA soft armor unless they're specially designed. If you have the credz, a french company called FIER makes a hardened steel "PAR" slug which can get you through some Level III hard. I think just PE or old school fiberglass. Otherwise, slugs are reliant on BFD to secure a stop and BFD is a result of momentum, which needs velocity. Velocity drops with distance. A slug at 200 yards isn't gonna be very impressive against good soft, especially if an old school cheapass "trauma plate" (remember those?) is used.
>or head/groin shots.
You can buy helmets with sub-20mm BFD against 3" magnum slugs, many ballistic visors can eat slugs wholesale, and groin armor is the same deal as soft, although you can run hard plates as danglers.

>>65500982
It is on an extreme end, but potato, tomato, what if it was suddenly a slug, etc.
>>65501009
Helion seems a little more forgiving in this sense. Hard to imagine a scenario where the thickness difference would be absolutely critical.
>pepper areas outside
Bingo. Of course it always depends on how uparmored we are talking here.

>>65501126
PE plates tend to run thick. Helion + soft is still gonna lose to M855 and run well over 3lb. Good news is PE plates do handle multi-hit better than ceramic, higher energy magnum dong rifles, and are drop proof.
>Bingo. Of course it always depends on how uparmored we are talking here.
Jinwudun. Fearless X. GBES. Real easy to juggermaxx.

>>65501168
You know we could always stack the plates. Maybe a nice gel backer to cushion that bfd. Duct tape them together.

>>65501219
That's one option, but is weight inefficient. What we could do is combo a light PE plate with a shitty Chinese steel plate like >>65500369.
Hesco 3801-RF1 (not the same as the 3801) is 1.76lb 10x12 for the same rating as the 2.5lb Gilliam Helion, and is the lightest known RF1 plate. Add a IIIA steel plate in front, you're at 1.76lb + 2.87lb = 4.63lb. Sound familiar?
The old AR500 A3 steel plate was 0.11" steel, 0.420" PE. Our ratio is flipped up with a lot more, and better quality PE, but only 0.092" steel.
For Helion we're over 5lb.

Actually, going off the AR500 A3 numbers, you might be able to do shitty Chinese 0.092" thick steel plate up front backed by 0.6" Gilliam GARMS 1 as a kind of ghetto ersatz AR500 A3 / Buffalo Gamechanguh. Would require testing. We're talking $120-140 a "plate" (steel plate plus GARMS) if you catch the GARMS on sale. 2.2 + 2.87 = 5.07lb. Not great but for turbo poorfag M80 + M193 + M855 that's not terrible. Still lighter than Protech X-CAL LP, and with better multi-hit + absolute drop protection versus single strike, needs soft armor, and cannot be dropped.

>>65501234
>>65501277

My "intermediate" setup is Italian III PE pasta plates stacked with AR500 IIIAs with build-up spall coating. Thick as fuck and like 8 lbs but it's ghetto III+ and cost me like $90 for each facing.

>>65501631
That's pretty good but Paul Allen is running GILLIAM.

Next plate debate topic. Is Gilliam memeshit or are they the new house special for /gq/ poorfags?

>>65501683

He just can't match my RETRO drip because my armor is DISCONTINUED and MILITARY SURPLUS. Also drop-immune and with less than 1" shot spacing because it's steel; 8 lbs and really thick but who cares when you can be NOT EQUAL.

>>65501715
>He just can't match my RETRO drip because my armor is DISCONTINUED and MILITARY SURPLUS
He can't match my PROTECH 2230s either, because they are rated for LEVEL IV AND LEVEL III. THAT'S RIGHT.
>Also drop-immune and with less than 1" shot spacing because it's steel; 8 lbs and really thick but who cares when you can be NOT EQUAL
Based Steel-PE hybrid, the true ceramic alternative endorsed by Doctor Gary K. Roberts since 2006. Now go pay $1,000 for a pair of 6lb credential blocked AMI TAC3SM plates do it now yes do it immediately.

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>>65501095
>What
How will I die, greentip?

>>65501687
>the new house special for /gq/ poorfags?
Yes. Would heaviest, toughest plate in best carrier (affordable).

>>65501277
Why are they still using ar500 when SR500 and AR 550 exist?

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>>65501879
TRADITION!

>>65501879
Harder steels could be more BRITTLE.
Also AR500 is usually made in thinner sheets.
>>65501846
From the financial despair of not waiting six months to buy 3801s.
>>65501851
Gilliam 8002 Max... maxxing.

>>65501879
But actually to give a non-joking answer on this, couple of reasons:
1. The purpose of the steel face on the A3 plate is to just defeat M855. The round is otherwise allowed to penetrate and get caught by the PE. Harder or better steel means it does more work by itself which may actually result in SPALLING.
2. Cost.
3. AR500 is often made thinner.
4. Steel PE plates' job is to address high multi hit versus common street threats. A1 is out of bounds and therefore a harder or better steel isn't warranted, especially given how much better it is than regular M855.
AR500 themselves use a steel-titanium alloy plate, the A4 (which sucks!) to address M80A1 but interestingly not M855A1 except at very reduced velocity. If you made a better A3, that would struggle against both because of the plate's capture mechanism.

>>65499868
On one hand, its remarkable how many iterations this thing has gone through in a relatively short period. Up till the v5 the carrier was updated almost yearly (5 distinct versions in a 7 year period), then they had a 5 year gap to the v6. On the other hand and semi-unrelated, the fact that the LV120 has far more FCPC genetics than LV119 is to me a tacit admission that the haters were right all along and the 119 was always a shit carrier propped up by hypebeast marketing.

Is the A1 threat overblown a bit or are these rated off current spec A1? I’m several years out of loop, but I recall there was the especially spicy stuff that was hard on guns, then it was toned down a bit. Still a thing? Did it make a meaningful difference?

>>65501977
>waiting six months
Dude, I got those years ago after the '22 Buffalo massacre when sinister body armor (armour) was under threat of banning for the sake of the childrensess. Meanwhile, I've been literally prancing around UNARMORED (UNARMOURED) for years, moving fast and light, keeping up the tempo, tempo, tempo, slow is smooth and smooth is fast, working harder, looking better, taking bigger shits than any poser in a ballistic skirhurt and fucking wizzardz hat!

>UNARMORED (UNARMOURED)

>>65502046
I think you mean A2 threat and yes, he's not a credible threat..

>>65502046
>M855A1 pressure
Per an old head on Arfcom, the 2009 M855A1 spec was "shall not exceed" 62,000 PSI at 70 degrees fahrenheit. This was effective through 2016. In 2017, changed to the current spec, same temp - shall not exceed 61,500.
>Still a thing? Did it make a meaningful difference?
100% depends on the plate, if we're talking SRT models, because M855A1 is not an NIJ standardized threat. 500 psi should not make a huge difference in velocity and a well designed plate should be able to handle it. However, when plates are built with zero safety margin, all bets are off. Regardless, M855A1 is not really a threat to IVs simply because it's down massively on penetrator mass and kinetic energy density versus M2AP at NIJ spec. I'd only be breaking a sweat with Hesco T212s, X-CAL LPs, or similar budget plates with crappy backers.
>Is the A1 threat overblown a bit or are these rated off current spec A1?
DocGKR's argument is that you want M855A1 + M80A1 if you are near a military base. If you just run a IV or preferably III+IV plate then this is a non-issue on a single strike basis. Doc hates Level IV for some reason.
M855A1 is statistically not common enough to warrant NIJ standardization, but notably it IS required by the more progressive FBI. The FBI evaluates armor threat environments yearly and their body armor protocol is widely regarded as superior to NIJ. All of their known plates within the past decade are good for A1 at specified velocities. LTC 23800, Hesco U210 / U211, Hesco 4800, 4801, LTC 28601, Hesco 4520.
However, plenty of people "get by" with RF2 and the very lightest A1 rated plate, the 3.8lb Hesco SC3812, is credential blocked to shit and $3.5k a pair.

>>65502133
>Dude, I got those years ago after the '22 Buffalo massacre when sinister body armor (armour) was under threat of banning for the sake of the childrensess.
Baller MFer had the audacity to not walk up to the Hesco rep at shot show that year and just ask to buy the 3801 display plates.
> Hesco’s new Level III armor, the 3801 model, is just 1.6lbs in its 10×12″ configuration. One point six pounds. That’s it. A pair of these plates sets you back a hair over 3lbs. Compare that to Hesco’s current production of 3800 plates, where a 10×12 weighs 2.2lbs.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/19/shot-2022-hesco-unveils-new-body-armor-line/

My full work gear
>Safelife defense IIIa tactical vest - black
>2 admin pouches, 1 large with medical (4x packing gauze, Israeli bandage) 2 TQs places in different places small pouch has gum, mouth guard, cough drops, ibuprofen
>2 mags on vest in esstac kiwis
>over belt I'd a Bianchi nylon
>under belts is a kore
>glock 19 gen 5 mos with EPS in a safariland lvl 3 holster
>2 mags in estac kiwis on belt
>1 of my tqs on belt
> glove pouch
>uniform shirt
>under armor under shirt
>LAPD atlas pants
>Bayes boots
>notepads, keys, phone, watch

>>65502149
>Safelife defense IIIa tactical vest - black
Lemme guess, employer required.

>>65502156
The vest is required, I had to purchase it.
Unfortunately most good soft armor is gay and the company won't sell to civillians.

>>65501722

All jokes aside I've got ceramics for real big trouble, but the AR500-PE hybrid is my medium threat "might be real trouble" rig, better than my all-PE "drunk idiots are shooting durr rifles skywards again" low threat/non-combat rig.

3 threat levels, 3 plate setups. Easy peasy.

>>65502275
>"drunk idiots are shooting durr rifles skywards again"
Now we need a plate for our heads? Oye vay!

>>65502393

That's what used PASGTs and (thicker) SEPT2s are for. Note that there's apparently multiple variants/generations of SEPT2 so some are multi-hit 9mm from SMG length barrels and others barely stop .45 ACP.

>>65502399
Video I saw had a 9mm sail right through a Sept2 front and back.

>>65502275
PE-backed steel is the only steel body armor worth a damn outside of very last ditch budgets. Nothing wrong with that as long as A1 threats and up stay away.
Some side info, you can buy mystery meat Level III AR500 from Down Range Industries for $80 a set, shipped. Unsurprisingly they've sold over 9,000 AR500 plates across several listings just on ebay alone, although the better AR600 good for M193? $187 a set? Only 108 plates sold. I guess people can't swing a benjamin on lifesaving equipment, or maybe $187 doesn't work because they all bought Highcum 4SAS4 instead for $186/set.
Point is, budget-ass armor is the normal, "REAL TROUBLE" armor for most people, so you're ahead of the curve with your multi-level optioning.
>All jokes aside I've got ceramics for real big trouble
Hopefully Adept comes through with the Level IV / RF3 "Super Mantis" titanium plate at a decent price and weight. Would be interesting to have nearly TAC3S multi hit but at Level IV weight. I think it might even be able to stop .50 BMG ball, but that's not confirmed and is based off the Mantis G2's .50 M33 at standoff claim.

>low threat/non-combat rig.
Speaking of, Ace Link just dropped a nearly $1k/set SRT rated for 7.62x39 MSC... and that's it. 1.87lb and 0.56" thick. Basically Chinese counterpart to the ULWSAPI and LTC 24365. As you describe, low threat.

>>65502406
>maybe $187 doesn't work
Firstly, 187 is NOT a Prime Number, it factors by 1, 11, 17, and 187. So yeah, I would only price my resale articals to Prime Numbers. I mean, that goes without saying, but most people don't think like that.

>>65502399
>>65502405
There's also two Protech X-CAL LPs. One version is single strike all threats, other has multi-hit capability. I think the backer got partially upgraded with aramid in the later version.
inconsistent shit like that and the SEPT2s gets real common when you step outside the NIJ body armor CPL. There's two kinds of ACH. Two kinds of IHPS. Three Gilliam 8002s. Two Hesco 4K10s. Two Hesco 4800LVs.

>>65502405

Kommandostore tried a legit Uzi on one of their surplus SEPT2s and it stopped all hits, although edge hits were naturally a problem when it came to fragments, and then I also saw the SEPT2 video where pistol-fired 9mm punched a nice hole front and back. The two videos didn't seem to make sense until I ran across one of the many uniform autism forums through Google and found out there were different SEPT2 variants/generations; for example there was a paratrooper variant with meaningful external differences than the normal infantry one.

It's likely the SEPT2s on the surplus market are a giant unmarked mix of all these variants, with possible different generations (/gq/ at one point speculated a change in the adhesive/epoxy used to bind the aramid layers) to boot.

>>65502430
>It's likely the SEPT2s on the surplus market are a giant unmarked mix of all these variants, with possible different generations
Agreed, and IMHO that's too damn risky. Reminds me of the Chinese NP550 IIIB helmet situation where Warmag sells the legit version but like twenty other guys sell a pot metal knockoff for a hundred less. The helmets are otherwise identical in nearly every way, so if it's second hand you don't know unless you shoot.
Warmag's helmets do have a USMC insignia on the nape pad, but I'm sure the B stock factory can fake that, or maybe it's literally the same factory.

>>65502441
I will count upon mine for complete slingshot rating.

>>65502432
>>65502445

Exactly. This is made far worse by the fact that most were sold as bare stripped shells, with all markings/labels removed so you can't even tell what variant they are. I'd trust them for maybe low-velocity stuff like .22LR, .45 ACP, and of course frag, but 124gr 9mm at pistol velocity is their absolute limit on a PERFECT day, and no day you're taking fire is even a moderately good one. Only good news is that SG sold them for like $20 a stripped shell, which is costume airsoft PVC bump helmet territory. For a real surplus aramid helmet that's literally pocket change, even if it barely protects against any modern calibers.

Got two shells myself, they're nice as backups for my legit PASGT.

>>65502459
$20 a shell is really damn good. I think this is a good point to remind everyone that NIJ encourages law enforcement to continue wearing suspended and revoked armor until replacements are available, because less effective armor is better than no armor at all. Yes, this even went for Zylon. Second Chance et al provided aramid "armor paks" you would wear with the Zylon to restore them to original rating before they degraded. Didn't restore those cops to life though.
>there is a point however where it makes sense to ditch if the armor is basically weighing you down and ain't stopping shit. For example, defective recalled AR500 Level III plates from ~10 years ago. 16lb is a lot of weight for sub-III protection.

>>65502471

The majority of my backup armor is basically pocketchangemaxxing stuff like deep discounted AR500 IIIAs, Italian III PEs, and so forth. I got legit stuff if SHTF hard, but for non-combat/low threat situations like drunk retards half a mile away shooting all-lead thuddy thuddy JSPs skywards on holidays (so super low velocity), or at worst a couple teenage wannabe gangbangers playing the home invasion game with only one stolen Poly80 and a half dozen crusty old 115gr 9mm rounds between them, well, you don't really need to bring out your Level IVs for that. Hell, even IIIA might be okay.

>>65502423

$187 is a bad number because it's the widely known (thanks to Hollywood) California penal code for murder. Basically this armor's price screams YOU WILL BE KILT IN DA STREETS, and true or not people see the digits.

>>65502492
Worst case scenario, you got loaners.
Speaking of, I should grab some OA+'s from Gilliam so I have friends & family setups good for A1. They've sold over 2,000 of those.
Condor Sentry plus a pair is $240. That's probably, new mfg, bare minimum I'd be comfortable having people roll as a lpaner getup. Just over five pounds a plate, moderate HG2 cheat ring, III + M855A1 alumina tile array. Drop tested, unlike the Highcum 4SAS4.
Also, funny side note, a coated BHN500 steel plate able to match the 6.8lb Protech 2230-1's M2AP at 3,510ft/s capability would be 17lb for a 10x12.
>at worst a couple teenage wannabe gangbangers playing the home invasion game with only one stolen Poly80 and a half dozen crusty old 115gr 9mm rounds between them, well, you don't really need to bring out your Level IVs for that. Hell, even IIIA might be okay.
IVs do laugh off pistol threats, and IIIA really doesn't in comparison. I'd run the Italian III PEs in that case because you REALLY gotta bust your ass to pen Level III PE with 9x19mm, requiring AP ammo like DM91, VTUVM, and 7N31M.
>>65502495
plato

>>65502513

True on both counts. My low-threat plate carrier has Italian PEs in it, and yes, digits don't lie. Talking about family, that reminds me, I need some more cheap carriers that hold square plates. Hard for them to wear what I don't have loaner carriers for. Thinking maybe Botach Discreets, they have square profile plate pouches that hold up to 11x14" and are only like $20 a pop. I mean, Botach, but it's just double-stitched nylon and likely won't see hard use.

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>>65502526
>Talking about family, that reminds me, I need some more cheap carriers that hold square plates
Real 2001 hours in here, but yeah, people got by with full cut plates for DECADES. Even Ceradyne had top shelf shit as late as 2004 in full cut (pic rel, on the right). Nothing wrong with that as long as you're good with the ergonomic tradeoffs. The old traditional was shooters / gamma cut front, full cut back. This was still common until about ~2014.
>Thinking maybe Botach Discreets, they have square profile plate pouches that hold up to 11x14" and are only like $20 a pop.
That's pretty good. Would put the OA+'s at $206 for a carrier plus two plates.

Speaking of full cut, Gilliam still has some 10x12 RF1s leftover from the Helion R&D. 3lb, 10x12, $139 a set shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/287307750324?
This puts you at $159 with that Botach carrier. Lowest I can think of "new" that isn't steel, used bottom dollar ceramics, or super questionable Chinesium like from Linry or GTEagle.

>>65502546

I've got a stock of Italian III PEs, some for me and others as family loaners. They're all square and I really don't want to compromise them by cutting, so square pouches it is. Should've bought more square profiled carriers from SG when they were blowing out the Italian plates, theirs were a bit shittier than Botach (no height straps in the pouch) but only $10 each. But, as they say, hindsight is 20/20.

>>65502549
Give one person a IIIA shield and you have a 1998 SWAT team.
That United Shield Kent on ebay looks very nice but $120 shipping is a bit rich.

>>65499005
ranger green or multicam, kit, leave the fun camos for the uniform if you choose to wear one.

do you know how much shit you want to carry? mags? ifak? 2nd ifak? radio? do you have friends?

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Ace Link Armor infographic. Note, the 6.1lb RF3 is actually SiC, not Aluminum Oxide. That makes it check out weight wise but it's way too expensive relative to the Battle Steel IVs which also use SiC. At $726 a pair it's more expensive than Militech's RF3 Black Label, which is basically the best overall Chinese plate.
RF2 lineup is mixed. RF1s aren't great but the 7.62x39 MSC SRT is interesting if a Draco with MSC is your only rifle concern. That's light / thin as hell. Price sucks.

>>65502558

I have some 12x12" squares of UL 752 Level I building/vehicle armor that I can tape together with a framework to create a small 24" tall shield, stops 124gr 9mm at about 1175 fps. Will that do?

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>>65502495
>$187 is a bad number
Just one more reason. 87+1=88, 88/2=44, this means you are destined to be shot twice by .44Rem Mag, no less, no more.

>>65502986
Make it 48" tall and 24" wide for body bunkering.

Next plate debate:
Leading Technology Composites (LTC) doesn't actually make very good armor.

>>65503851
>debate
More like monolog in an echo chamber.

>>65503970
>this echo chamber disagrees with other echo chambers, so it's more echoey!
hi apex

>>65503973

Is he even out on bail yet?

>>65504273
Apex just launched a series of seemingly Chinesium pouches, so SOMEBODY is still manning the ship.
Honestly surprised he didn't pull a Murray Neal (Pinnacle Armor guy) and just disappear.

>>65503668

Unfortunately ArmorCo doesn't sell the single sample squares in Level I anymore. However, you CAN buy a 4x8 foot Level I wall panel for just $453.60 plus shipping, which equals about 4 shields of that size for just about $120 each! Level 7 (M193 at 3250 fps) is only $1518 for 4x8 feet of rifle-stopping goodness as well, so with a hacksaw and duct tape you can have roughly 32 flat SRTs for just under $50 apiece before shipping! Level 8 (equivalent to III) is only $1766.40 per 4x8 foot panel as well!

The possibilities are endless with ALL AMERICAN MADE FIBERGLASS!

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>>65504389
All this talk of UL 752 is bringing back Pinnacle Armor memories, who despite being the most infamous of the Dragonskin companies, made their bones with facility armor.
By the way, I figured out what happened to Neal after Pinnacle Armor went tits up in 2013.

That's one industry mystery down.

>>65504425

That said, each shitty fiberglass SRT would be like 12 pounds each and a bit over an inch thick. This is very much field expedient body armor at best, likely requiring homemade plate carriers. Good use for those Italian sewing kits anon was talking about a couple threads ago!

Or you could just build a body bunker shield on cheap Amazon caster wheels. The possibilities are truly UNEQUAL!

>>65504389
>all fiberglass plates
real 1982 hours in here. brb gonna go buy a PA 500 AP Level IV and maybe hit the surplus store for some vietnam vintage VBAGT plates to stop that Norinco MSC. Then I'll head to Second Chance and load up on Hardcorps II vests with K-30 plates just in case shit gets real bad.
>>65504441
Yeah, I'd keep this stuff to shields only.

>>65504464

I'm mostly saying this because fiberglass is CHEAP. If you're super poor, a group buy of a single UL 752 Level I or II panel nets you roughly 32 plates of pistol-tier armor for about $15-20 a plate, long as you've got a hacksaw, duct tape, a tape measure, maybe a pencil, and a big enough work surface. Now that Italian PE has dried up, it's arguably the cheapest option, although nowhere near the best, and calling it a good option is a big stretch. That said, ArmorCo also sells pairs of UL 752 Level III (roughly IIIA) 10x12" shooters cut fiberglass "plates" for $75. Huge markup compared to buying one of their Level III 4x8 panels and cutting it up (which equals about $20-25 a plate DIY), but they've done all the hard work already, you just have to shove them in a $20 Chinesium plate carrier and you're done. $100 and you've got possibly the least ergonomic IIIA armor on the planet, but it stops at least one .44 Magnum SJHP per plate and is super cheap.

This is truly for the ultra /pfg/ crowd, but I always feel a tribal sympathy for them since I was a /pfg/ regular once too. I always want the wagiest wagies to have some reasonable option, even if it's the most desperado one possible.

>>65504589
There comes a point however, IMO, where the ultra /pfg/s need to just wait a paycheck or two. These fiberglass desperado plates are interesting, especially if $40 chinese steel faces are added, but a pair of GTS OA+'s is sub-$200 and delivers proven M855A1 + M80 defeat at 5.1lb a plate, with a IIIA cheat ring.

At this point, this thread is just 2 AI bot arguing hypothetically.

>>65504759
hi apex. I've been meaning to ask if you're selling those pepper grenades.

>>65504731

I've been meaning to ask, are the OA+ plates that set of "retracted strike face" RF2s on their website? Price is $175 per pair so it seems correct, and the cheat ring seems about right too.

>>65504803
Yep, that's them. Fun fact. Gilliam has actually been around since the old /bag/ days, he's just kept a relatively low profile because he literally just sold shitloads of those all day. I think the old guard just ignored him because they were too focused on $5,000 Ceradynes.
As said before, the vast - VAST majority of people buying plates are operating at the $200/set mark or below.

>>65504816

So his RF2s are basically 8x10" ceramic, right? Given the test results it looks like they ran a full NIJ cert test complete with drops and conditioning.

>>65504821
Only the OA+ RF2s are ringed, and yeah, last I checked they and the discontinued IV OA+ were indeed 8x10 ceramic, rest IIIA / HG2 PE. The 6001 / 6002 / GARMS 2 / 2+ are full coverage.
The test reports are fairly good. I like that they drop tested and that the cheat ring / backer are IIIA, unlike some other companies where the ring is foam, which is useless.

>>65504777
This is exactly what an AI ROBOT would say. Thank you for asking, CLAUDE. How is your wife SIRI?

>>65504925
Gonna be unemployed when Rapex goes tits up

I need it...
https://surplus.botach.com/rip-ram-breaching-forcible-entry-device-police-trade/

Wait, wait, wait. I've got an idea. What if we used GARMS 1 plates as ICW BACKERS for strike faces, like Blackbeard ceramic blanks or even mystery meat AR500 IIIAs/IIIs? I mean they're ICW RF1 but according to anons here are M193 standalone. Would this even work?

>>65505063
That's what I was cooking with >>65501277, lol. The end result will be a ghetto AR500 A3 with slightly less steel, so M855 performance will be a bit dicey, but a lot more PE. Problem is that they aren't adhered so it's effectively a delaminated solution - less efficient.
Determine the PE backer thickness of what you wanna emulate, then compare thickness and type of the "strike face" you wanna use versus a known "good" solution.
Adept sells strike faces intended for use with the Storm Foundation, a similar RF1 PE plate, which boost it to either RF2 or RF3. I'd start there with working numbers.

>>65505093

I'm thinking a Blackbeard 0.225" ceramic on top of a GARMS 1, possibly superglued on after adding a slight 4-5mm cheat ring/drop front of EVA foam. Think this will work as a ghetto III+ setup? I mean Botach sells a III+ for $160, so the advantages of this DIY III+ seem kinda meh to me.

>>65505119
Too many middlemen, IMO. At this point call up Bitossi themselves for the ceramic.
I remember it quoted somewhere it only costs Hesco $80 to make a 4403 they sell for $240, so if you can buy at scale the Alumina ceramic isn't expensive and the fiberglass definitely isn't.

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I'm debating getting some sort of tear away dangler pouch to hold more medical or adding a soft armor dick flap the the thorn from tgo, i honestly just use this shit for milsims so i might just go with the dangler instead of restricting my movement for no reason.

>>65505529
Do you want to risk losing your meat?

>>65505529
Whats on your belts 6 o clock? That where I put my tear away IFAK. You seem to be carrying a a lot of shit

>>65505547
Ratfucked mres, poncho, extra socks, waffletop, some basic hygiene products, an emergency replacment parts for my rifle, and my nods in a padded pouch. I don't always use this belt though i have another USMC warbelt that just has mags a dump pouch and an ifak.

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Went digging through old /bag/ threads and found mention of some really batshit USSOCOM requirement from 2017, along with references to some experimental boron carbide + titanium Granit plates and the FORT Technologies ACP-M, a very heavy duty Russian plate rated for 7N37.
>U.S. Special Operations Forces (SOF) require lightweight, tactical, stand-alone ballistic plates capable of providing elevated threat protection without degrading mobility or further encumbering the operator.
>The goal is to develop a hard armor solution that will meet SOF requirements and defeat...
>a single shot of 7.62 × 51 mm M993, a single shot of 7.62 × 54R armor piercing incendiary (API) B32, or two shots 7.62 × 39 mm API BZ, each at their respective muzzle velocity.
>The plate will limit backface deformation to 44 mm for all three listed threats and possess an areal density of no more than 5.9 pounds per square foot.
>areal density of no more than 5.9 pounds per square foot.

To convert 5.9psf to regular sizing, it'd be 4.2lb SAPI M or 4lb Swimmer. A single strike M993 plate at Ceradyne SAEC weight, standalone, would without question be the greatest plate of all time. Technically impossible however without some novel materials. Explanations for how that was being attempted are in the below link, page 39.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201019212722/https://www.cttso.gov/Documents/ReviewBooks/2017%20CTTSO%20Review%20Book_Web.pdf

>>65505566
Id move that stuff to the backpack and throw an rip out IFAK there

>65505643
Actually, double checked my math and 4.2lb SAPI M / 4lb Swimmer is a bit off. Correct numbers are 4.11lb Swimmer, 4.31lb SAPI.

>>65505643

Think they could pull it off with the weird quad phase ceramics that are cutting edge now?

>>65502039
>tacit admission that the haters were right all along and the 119 was always a shit carrier propped up by hypebeast marketing.
it's not even that the 119 (or 120) are just shit carriers, it's that spiritus thought they could continue the hypebeast marketing and sales method after ferro stopped doing it. spiritus also just has airsoft-tier quality products and some of their products are just clones of other people's designs for double the price

>>65505529
>pack pack you can't acess with dropping your armor
>"battlebelt" that will shift around
>a bunch of bulk and weight on your lower back that you can't drive, sit, it walk around long with
Fucking retardmaxxing

>>65506160
>>pack pack you can't acess with dropping your armor
rear panels typically have hydro and/or things your friends (if you have any) would access for you
>>"battlebelt" that will shift around
never wore a traditional battle belt award
>>a bunch of bulk and weight on your lower back that you can't drive, sit, it walk around long with
battle belts can by quickly donned and doffed and most of your time isn't spent in a vehicle

Anyone have experience with the lv-120? I'm looking at that or the ferro fcpc v5, but the 120 looks more interesting to me.

>>65506344
If you have lv120 cash then get the lv120. It does everything better.

If you don't have lv120 cash, get an spc or wait for the chinese to copy it.

>>65505963
Definitely not. The new Archon can't even stop M993 and it's a pound heavier. The Adept Emperor is about half a pound heavier than this plate and can't even stop 5.56 M995 reliably. I actually have the Emperor's M995 unreliability in writing from Adept. Hell, this plate beats some of the old Zylon-backed Ceradynes.
Basically, SOCOM wants a plate that does the same thing as a Ceradyne 96034, the legendary $5,000 a set CAG plate from 2008, but 1.2lb lighter. It can be done, especially given the 96034 uses a partly aramid outdated backer, but it'll have to use the materials discussed in >>65505643's pic rel. Ceramics with plasma-deposited nanocomposite layers or ceramic matrix composites. Either way it's going to be another unobtanium $5,000/set super plate.

>>65506396
What is the extremely nice carrier (and expensive) the gov.gov uses? Tan and green colorway?

>>65506557
The EPIC Federale, senor
https://www.tyrtactical.com/shop/tyr-tactical-male-epic-federal-outer-carrier/

>>65506565
Yes, exaxtly! Looks so good. But is there a chinkolicious knock-off? I need something like this for my 26605s.

>>65506608
Maybe hit up Shekkin and see if they'll do a custom. I haven't seen an aliex knockoff yet. Taobao anon might have something.
>I need something like this for my 26605s
You know those were suspended by the NIJ twice, yeah?

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>>65506608
>>65506617
>is there a chinkolicious knock-off?
Unfortunately, no.

Sunsnow does make a clone of the Diamondback tactical DBT UTOC though, which is another fed carrier.

>>65506617
>suspended by the NIJ twice,
Not a problem when you never get shot. I could upgrade by now though.

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>>65506344
the lv120 cummerbund is the selling point and the weakness.

the structural cummerbund that’s one size fits all coarse and fine adjustment, awesome.

but it keeps breaking because they didn’t use enough material.

it has other good features, but you’re probably better off with just an spc.

I picked up a shaw v2 with his copy/take on the lv120 cummerbund, the slock, and it’s quite nice, the carrier has good comms routing and padding and general design, but not on sale this shit’s like $600, and i dont think it’s worth that.

>>65506677
>diamondback tactical
We're going old school tonight boys.
>>65506684
LTC did manage to get it reinstated both times, so it wasn't a multi-plate failure warranting immediate removal. Hoeever, they never came clean on WHY the plate was suspended twice, which is odd.
The 26605 is now discontinued. Do you want more strength, lighter weight and keeping M2AP, or lighter weight and moving down threat level-wise?

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This is a bit rough and I want to polish / expand it later as "new" stuff comes up. Ceradyne plate infographic as requested by Anon like two threads back. Next up is Second Chance legacy stuff also as requested like a month ago.
I have no confidence the plates in the "Zylon Circus" section actually meet their ratings given that they were widely speculated to use Zylon / Z-Shield backers, which would have degraded in months and 20 years later wouldn't perform for shit. Because documentation on these is thin (SAEC / 96034 / 2572575 especially) I'd advise exercising caution in general with everything beyond the MH3 and SOF ESAPI. The GEN-III SOCOM TSA / BALCS also have that delam issue. Obviously SAPI, ISAPI, ESAPI, H-ESAPI, XSAPI, are fine. ECSAPI is odd but should be excellent.

>>65506725
>Do you want more strength, lighter weight and keeping M2AP, or lighter weight and moving down threat level-wise?
Keep threat level, price ceiling ~$600-800.

>>65506677
DBT is Tyr. Its a Bushmaster/Windham situation.

>>65506848
Cheapest solution is Gilliam 1635 at just under $400/set and 6.4lb a 10x12 plate, but I got a hunch that plate is a little on the underbuilt side. 6.4lb for Alumina-PE is light. That's coming down about a pound from your 26605s just by swapping aramid backer for UHMWPE. Also part-Chinese if that bothers you.
Better solution would be all-Chinese Militech RF3 Black. 6.05lb SiC-PE, $650/set with import fee, 5mm cheat ring on each side but tests very well with Buffman.
Best solution would be not-Chinese Hesco 4601 (adds Level III plus active Level IV NIJ cert over the Militech) but that's 6.4lb 10x12 and blows your budget at $900/set on a really good day, $1,050 or so otherwise.

Wildcard would be surplus ESAPIs, REV. G or later, but they're getting a bit scarce lately, condition is mixed, and needs soft armor. 5.45lb for a 9.5x12.5 + soft puts you about where the 4601 is, but you get 3x M2AP (at ~4" spacing, which is wide) versus just one M2AP.

The not-an-esapi eBay bid has increased to $68. Too rich for my blood. All that remains in Chinese pistol lasers. Go birds!

>>65506694
>but it keeps breaking because they didn’t use enough material.
Where is the breakage occuring?

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>>65506694
that's a big admin pouch, does it not interfere with mag access?

>>65507028
Yeah there's some retards bidding on that doing one dollar raises. I think a guy's just being a dick and making the other ones pay more.
Wave off and save for the last 2230 on Gunbroker.

>>65506694
Gonna be honest I hated my shaw carrier.

Shit, I bought a spare plate cheap and the fedex truck it was on got into an accident.

>>65507169
Which one? I've got the v2, and I think it's great. The only thing I wish, is that the cummerbund wasn't bungee cord. It was an extreme pain in the ass to set up.

>>65507453
I had the v2. Found it extremely comfortable to wear, near impossible to shoulder a gun and shoot though for me.

>>65507617
Did you change the angle of the shoulder straps? That's one of the reason I like the arc. Although it was a pain in the ass to get everything set up the first time, being able to adjust everything, down to the angle of the shoulder straps means I could everything exactly where I wanted it.

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damn, bro on tacswap got buyers' remorse and is selling some RMAs for $450. XRT and an 1165 GEN2. Some kind of bastard mixed setup.
Kinda funny seeing how tiny the RMA 9.5x11.5 "10x12" is. Also wtf is up with the covers? Plates are seven months old and look more goofed up than 20 year old blue ESAPIs that've done four tours in the sandbox.

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Posting this in COSPLAY POSER GENERAL. You fags gonna die with loose and missing buttons and chipped nail polish! Also, ur mum.

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>>65507801
This is the kinda person who jacks off two traffic poles to run a bitcoin miner in a crack shack off the side of I-40

>>65507801
Quick someone make a fashion kit infographic

>>65507894
I already made two this thread.
>>65506798
>>65502576
Somebody else plz.

>>65507635
I swear I tried everything and it simply never worked. Something about that carrier in particular just does not get along with my body geometry.

>>65507912
did you size yourself?

>>65507836
I40 is a big interstater, 4u.

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>>65508026
Was starting a five alarm electrical fire in Memphis PART OF YOUR PLAN?

>>65507118
the bottom is tapered to allow mag access. that’s on buddy’s v1, my v2 is on the right, I personally didn’t like the admin pouch and will not buy one for myself.

>>65507617
it’s been an improvement from my avs mbav, the iotv, the iba, and my shitty premier outer vest. there’s aspects of the avs I miss, but overall I find this slightly better considering the lighter loads I carry, it’s a little less hot than the avs

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>>65508034
What plan?

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>>65508072
If I unplug your bitcoin miner and your crusty ass Sony Vaio laptop hooked up to perchance unlimited free AI porn generator, will you die?

>>65508080
God willing, then I won't have to watch Dallas lose.

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Shoulder pads for your plate carrier?

>>65508151
A very good idea. I have Protech IIIA deltoids on my heavy contingency vest and also some MSAP deltoid pouches, which with the IIIA raises to Level IV.
If I can find some XSBIs that gets me to M993.

>>65508015
I did, I'm squarely a medium sapi wearer and had no issues with a slickster in that size. I genuinely don't know why the arc v2 simply would not work for me.

>>65507719

>what in the goddamn

Are those permanent dents in the drop foam? What the fuck kinda shit did he stack on that, or on his MOLLE, to leave that kinda markings? Is that shit just fucking styrofoam?

>>65508544
It's a completely fucktarded setup.
>one plate, an 1165, is 9.5x11.5 and lighter with no drop pro, but meets Level IV
>other plate, an XRT, is 9.5x12.5 and heavier, with drop pro, but is only good for M80 + M855A1 reliably and is sketchy versus M80A1 and up.
So do you run the stronger but undersized plate in the front? Or do you run the XRT up front because it can take a dive if you have to dive? The plates have a similar mfg date so I think he got them like that. RMA builds direct to order and doesn't do dropship logistics.

>Are those permanent dents in the drop foam?
Yeah. You'll see those are absent on the 1165 probably because it has no foam.

>>65508555

Jesus fuck that whole thing just makes my head hurt. Also more to pile onto the giant hill of evidence that RMA is retarded as well. Anyways my bigger question is what kind of drop foam IS that? Looks like styrofoam salvaged from packing crates by the dumpster, because even most Dollar Tree foam doesn't dent quite that badly.

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>>65499005
Check out PineSurvey. Guy tests camos innawoods in Germany, but the climate and amount of ground cover (ferns and evergreens) is similar enough to the pnw

I really prefer green phos tubes over white, must be years of vidya ingrained in my brain or something
However, I'm saving up for a dual tube set up and all I have money for probably is NNVT-7, which are white tubes
Heard that the NNVT-5 tubes are actually bad?

What are some options to look out for instead? Any arguments against green phos?
Is 1400FOM enough to drive a car without supplemental IR lights? Can you even drive without IR regardless?

>>65505529
I dont think you have to choose if you dont want to.

dick flap mounted in plate pocket velcro, danger under placcard velcro, shaw shows that style off in some of their photos.

or could mount an ifak to your groin panel, or groin panel up front and ferro roll one in the back. you got options.

since it’s bb larp, rule of cool, but practical considerations, soft armor and medical supplies are both fairly light options you could use more of

I want a few gas masks for nuclear fallout
are Avons really 3x better than MIRA as their prices would imply?
should I grab cheap Israeli civ masks as backups/ guest masks?
are MIRA bad?

>>65508635
It SHOULD be something like Poron XRD, which is an industry standard foam, but the XRT was such a budget plate it could have been anything.
The story is that they originally intended the XRT to be the new 1155, but the Alumina faces they received from Bitossi were too thin and RMA was stuck with them, so they slapped on some fiberglass and liquidated the plates as a kind of RF2+ poorfag LTC 28595 rated for M855A1 and up to B-32 API. Not a great performer, especially when dropped, and suffered from nominal sizing unless you bought SAPI sized. Still sold like hotcakes because it tried to address the M855A1 + M80A1 bracket and it was a lot cheaper than the Highcom 3S9M.

>>65509627
Gas masks and suits do not protect against fallout. You will need to shield your body with a couple feet of earth or concrete for a few weeks, and your shelter needs sand filters behind a shielded door, otherwise fallout accumulates inside your shelter, still irradiating your body regardless of suit or mask.

Masks and filters are mainly useful in a nuclear context when decontaminating stuff after the initial sheltering period when you can spend a few hours a day outside

Learn the difference between being externally irradiated by an external source versus inhaling or ingesting radioactive material leading to a permanent internal irradiation source. You must address both, and sitting inside a 5 level underground parking garage with just a suit and mask will solve neither

Masks are basically a valuable prep only if you live near chemical plant, refineries and such

>>65509705
>inhaling or ingesting radioactive material leading to a permanent internal irradiation source.
are you fucking retarded? this is what the gas mask is for, fallout is radioactive dust and the gasmask keeps that dust out of your eyes nose and mouth
yes, a fullface respirator with particle filters would also work but gas masks are multi use, cooler, and somewhat better to use along with a rifle

>>65509722
Have fun dying because your bone marrow got irradiated from fallout outside your body, lungs or whatever. The mask will prevent internal contamination, but you still die from external radiation which is the whole point of my reply. Nice reading comprehension there buddy.

Either you need to tell more about your plan with them or I’ll salute your future untimely demise.

You must go underground in a filtered and uncontaminated environment. As said, an underground parking garage and mask will not save you.

>>65509748
I asked about gas masks

I didn't ask for an "um actually" about unrelated shit
I know that shelter is important, claiming that gas masks are useless in fallout because you are used to dominating this thread but didn't have anything helpful to say about my actual question, is stupid
sit in the corner quietly until someone asks about armor

>>65509787
>sit in the corner quietly until someone asks about armor
That husser isn't Salad Snack the armor autist, cuh

>>65509787
>I want a gas mask for fallout
What you’re asking for does not exist, they don’t make it because it doesn’t protect you, so there is no sense in making it.

Bait or mental retardation, fuck outta here
>you are used to dominating this thread
Im-fucking-plying that I’m armornigger holy fuck

Enjoy dying bub, the world will be better off when you do

>>65509810
my bad
>>65509836
a gas mask on its own doesn't protect you, of course, but it is still an essential piece of kit if you've been hunkered in a shelter for 2 weeks waiting for radiation levels to drop and need to step out back into the world because supplies are running low

>>65509851
>sits in the corner eating popcorn, waiting patiently for someone to ask about armor
CBRN isn't really my department so I'm staying out of this one.

>>65509627
A little radiation never hurt anybody.

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>>65509787
Wow, dude! You body slammed him! Gonna call you Hulk, I tell you what.

>>65509836
>they don’t make it
Now he doubles down. Dude. Stop.

>>65509627
Just buy some old stock C50s on ebay
>MIRA
Infamous for engaging in bullshit arbitrage

>Anons accuse each other of being armor autistic over gas masks, the thread
Where the hell is Radovan when you need him. Until he gets here... I see that ESAPI disguised as a Protech 9812-R1 sold. Sorry to see philly trash sniper tapped out. $75 is a good price especially given even an older ESAPI dogs most of what Brotach is selling for that rate.
Also this dude is still selling that United Shield Kent 32x22. Actually a really nice shield. A couple grand new, he wants $453 shipped.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/227150018033?

Also there's another line on cheap helmets other than Botach's BA3As, if you wear a size medium of these. Hudsongunner has a boatload of United Shield IIIA SC650s with riot visors for $79 SHIPPED, so this is cheaper than Botach.
(yes you can remove the visor).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/298010642238

>>65508719

/nvg/ used to get up to mad shenanigans driving with NODs of all sorts. Remember, 940nm IR lights don't give off much visible glow.

>>65509704

Honestly those things look more roached than secondhand Botach IVs. Then again, RMA and their average clientele.

That said I need a cheap, CHEAP carrier that fits square plates (Italian pasta III PEs) as an emergency backup that will likely never leave the closet it's hanging in. Botach Discreets look decent enough for that at like $20 a pop.

>>65511655
I'd just pull the trigger on the $20 botachs at that point.
>Honestly those things look more roached than secondhand Botach IVs. Then again, RMA and their average clientele.
Yeah, they look bad. Could be bad storage, could be defective workmanship. RMA for whatever reason uses really cheap covers that arrive with tears in them, you can see that on reddit every now and again. Usually with the same pony dance response of "oh it's not ballistic the cover doesn't matter" - but according to the NIJ it does.
NIJ 0101.07 section 10.3.1 specifies:
>"Each test item shall be free from evidence of inferior workmanship or material defects, such as uneven coatings or thicknesses of materials, WRINKLES, blisters, cracks, FABRIC TEARS, fraying, crazing, and chipped or sharp edges." (emphasis added)
NIJ 0101.06 4.1.4 states the same. The likely reason is because the cover is the only part of the plate you can visually inspect without tearing the plate apart. If you can't get the fucking cover right then that speaks volumes about the underlying, hidden, actually ballistic components. The only way to prove a plate works is to shoot it. Most people don't.
Also, "VARIANCE" is not allowed. See 10.3.2.
>"There shall be no variation in construction details between individual test items."
So the whole thing where certain manufacturers have a "variance" in weight or thickness or dimensions isn't allowed for NIJ test samples, period. RMA runs a 0.125+- variance. My Gilliams, Protechs, Hescos, and Ceradynes are all identical to one another, and the Gilliams were made in a garage.
>GILLIAM BUILT THIS IN A CAVE, WITH CHINESE MATERIALS!
>Then again, RMA and their average clientele.
I like calling them Reddit-Made Armor, because reddit is their primary internet market. Even Arfcom has tasted the forbidden fruit of... Battle Steel.

I love when ebay sellers think they can get new value on unknown condition armor with two years left on the 10y warranty. RMA 1155s, limited St. Michael edition for $200 + shipping.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/198628376703?
It's like gunbroker boomers who set an auction $100 below the buy it now price.

Guys I just bought these 20 year old PPI canteen pouches off ebay and they smell like a horrid mix of fuzzy expired kombucha, savage foot cheese, and rancid cum. How do I clean them?

>>65513386
Dunk in bleach water. Consider multiple dunkings and stronger bleach water if required.

>>65513503
will that fuck the color?

>>65513615
Depends on how much bleach you use and how long you dunk it. But that's better than rancid gear.

>>65513682
Requesting bleach infographic.

>>65511614
SWIR stuff is even better, 1000nm and up

Deal alert, cuh on ebay has two Protech 702MT IIIA+ ballistic helmet visors for $125 negotiable. Multi hit. Lighter single hit 702M available for less.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/820127576512?

>>65512045

Good deal. The plan is to hand the Botach carriers/Italian plates out to close relatives if things get rough, or just as wear/tear replacements for the shitty $10 ultra Chinesium knockoff of them I got from SG.

>>65514041
better than nothing

Hescuh has finally added their VPAM euro market plates to their site.
https://www.hesco.com/products/armor/vpam

>>65514499

Lot better, since I'm more worried about random drunk idiots spraying the landscape with JSPs out of durr rifles on holidays than any real combat threats. Italian pasta IIIs are perfect for that kind of lead-core threat.

>>65515505
Just add a shield. Botach has a Level III PE available for $600.
https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-30-20-nij-iii-flat-polyethylene-ballistic-shield-single-hand-w-strap-open-box/

Also dudebro has a pair of LTC 28780s (TSA Less than Overt GEN-IV) for sale on ebay for $1235 shipped. About 4.35lb, 0.7" thick, good for multi-hit (about 4" spacing) 7.62x51mm M80 and BZ API but NOT at full 6x NIJ Level III spec for M80.
This is the predecessor to the LTC 28791 Apex and Bulletproofme are selling for $4.5k a pair, which is absurd.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/117325805513?

>>65513691
Still looking for that milsurp soft armor compatibility/ dimensions infographic as well.

>>65516213
On my list. I'm working mostly "order as received."

Pastaplate poster (I think) asked for that second chance infographic back in August, so that's up next. I also have an "armor quick guide" which is the copypasta in >>65498982, but with details, planned. I wanna retire the advanced grab-bag guide that was made as a concession to the adept shill like two years ago because he wouldn't stop complaining about the Colossus getting kicked off /bag/anon's guide.
Guy doing the new first aid infographic died or something.

>>65513386
soak in vinegar & let dry multiple times

>>65516321
Great. Gotta say really nice pouches.

>>65513386
>fuzzy expired kombucha, savage foot cheese, and rancid cum
So what's the proble? Puss.

>>65516439
pouches smell like they were in a barricaded armed suspect situation, back in '06, and the swat team got bored after a couple hours so they had a group jerk sesh in the truck, while the suspect was trying to muster the balls to suck off a 12 gauge.

>>65516470
>just getting broken in
Saves you the effort.

>>65516470
>>65516581
Protective Produts International was a BASED armor company, KNOWN for being Tencate's US armor dealer, including but not limited to 15-20 hit Level IV LIBA plates which had gaps between pellets so M855 could pen!
That yeast fungus is only icing on the cake.
By the way if anyone sees any LIBA plates for sale, I'm in the market.

>>65515872

Better yet buy some ArmorCo Level 8 panels and build a small bunker for your bed. Sleep in total Level III-equivalent FIBERGLASS protection!

>>65517008
Hillbillies with M2AP or M61 gonna pen that shit for days cuh
>>65516470
>TOC to entry team....

Alright, let's take a bet. Gilliam hasn't been able to sell 8002 MAXs for shit lately probably because it's 8.5lb, 1.25" thick, single curve, and most people don't actually care about M993 / Swiss P defeat. How hard do you think he can be lowballed?

>>65517963
GET OUTTA EM HILS AND THE BILLIES WON'T DOME YA
SPECIAL THREAT ALL YOU NEED IN DA HOOD, WHERE THE TRAPS BE AT

>>65517975
YO FOOL
BRO DOESN'T HAVE THAT HESCO Z210 MONEY. I AIN'T SPENDIN' $2k FOR A PAIR OF 3.3LB M855 RATED PLATES IN A SLICKSTER. THIS IS CONDOR COUNTRY.

Fr fr gonna defend the $75 bitcoin miners in the trenches wit jacked electricity from the coolers at dollar general wit protech x-cal lp cuh
$45 a plate shipped, bro has over 150 at his crib.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1196552933

I like how these miners use more electricity than they mine in bitcoin but people have bought over a hundred. If you magically have free power then each one makes $2,355 a year.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/157881944477
I am almost DAMN sure some people are jacking power at this rate.
>how is this gear related
Bitcoin miners can be detected using THERMAL IMAGING in the boog, because they produce massive amounts of heat, and can also be detected with directional microphones like the cat ear helmets being tested today.
If you do not invest in technology, you will be kilt in the skreetz when a crackhead tries to jack your power with one of these. These crackheads will use the miners too hard and probably burn their / your house down.
They can then invest the thousands in profit into anything. Crack, drugs, highcom 4SAS4s.