Post gear, discuss gearThe All-American Tradition Edition. Maybe we gotta cut back on the Chinesium, guys. REPENT.Old: >>65498963Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BytxBjXRfS8
/gq/ Infographic Emporium:https://imgur.com/a/gq-infographic-emporium-1-00-1lZ5xw6Legacy Infographic Reserve: https://imgur.com/a/k-infographic-reserve-AIKzwWF>Last time on /gq/, Philly Trash Sniper got sniped by a punk on some $50 Tencate plates and thinks he'll have to settle down with GILLIAM. Guys fought about gas masks. Smelly pouches, and super cheap AMERICAN helmets.>QUICK ARMOR GUIDE 2.178CODE: * = active NIJ-cert, ^ = NEEDS SOFT ARMOR, DND = do not drop, ** = military.>Special Rifle Threat:/pfg/: Protech X-CAL LP^DND (Last ditch option!)Budget: Hesco L211Mid-Range: Hesco M210High-End: Hesco U210 / U211, LSAPI**, or Tencate CR-6450SA.>CONUS Minimum (M80, M855, M193):Budget: Hesco 3611C, SAPI**^, or Gilliam 6001Mid-Range: Hesco 3612* or 3810*High-End: Hesco 3811* or 3811LV^DNDElite: Used Cercom CER-EMH**^>CONUS Medium (M80 + M855A1 or BZ API):Budget: Protech 2120-5Mid-Range: Hesco 3411* or LTC 19513High-End: LTC 28780**Elite: VelSys PBZSA**DND or Hesco SC3812 or Protech DT306C-HWElite-Plus: Used Ceradyne MH3 CQB**^DND (10x M995)>CONUS Optimal (M855A1 + M80A1):Budget: Highcom 3S9 (SAPI-cut)Mid-Range: Used LTC 28550** / 28590** or Highcom 3S9M* (SAPI-cut!)High-End: Used LTC 28595**Elite: Used LTC 28570** or VelSys TSA**Elite-Plus: Tyr XHA4/S6/T(DND) or GEN 6 LTC TSA**>Level IV / CONUS High (.30-06 M2AP):/pfg/: Used Protech 2014G (last ditch option)Budget: Gilliam 1023, Protech 2014MC, or Hesco 4403*Mid-Range: Hesco 4601* or ESAPI**^ (REV. G-J)High-End: Hesco 4800(DND), 4800LV^DND, or Protech 9812-R1(DND)Elite: Tencate CXP-800 SA or Ceradyne SOF ESAPI MK.II**^DND or Adept EmperorElite-Plus: Ceradyne SAEC**DND(??)>Level IV+ / CONUS Extreme (Various)Budget: Protech 2230 / Hesco-Protech 2230-1 (M2AP at +600ft/s) or Gilliam 8002 (.300 Winmag Swiss P AP)Mid-Range: Adept Colossus (7.62x51 Swiss P AP) or REV. C XSAPI**^ (M993)High-End: Rev. D XSAPI**^ (7N37?)Elite: ECSAPI** (M993)Elite-Plus: Ceradyne 96034** (7.62x51 Swiss P)
Damn I missed a gas mask fight.
What fight?Got this in recently
>>65529491You didn't miss much, basically it was about whether a gas mask will actually help you with fallout post-nuclear explosion.
anyone have experience with weltool lights? specifically the w65b v2. also whats a good place to get custom made soft armor?
>>65529506>also whats a good place to get custom made soft armor?If you mean just the panels, try either Stealth Armor Systems or Gilliam.>>65529500Nice. I got pic related in yesterday. Forty bucks.
Bro on Ebay is selling a 9x9" mini platecarrier from AR500 with a boatload of armor, mostly questionable but the DIY folks here might like it. 1. Two AR500 9x9 Level IIIs. Basically they couldn't figure out how to make steel plates lighter so they just made them smaller. Junk.2. A Highcom Level III 9x9 "Defender" PE plate.3. Two 8.5x8.5 IIIA backers from Midwest.4. An abdominal panel from Militech, IIIA.5. Two Blackbeard 7x9 Special Threats rated for 7.62x25mm S&B at 1,550ft/s and .30 Carbine at 2,000ft/s like it's 1995.The 9x9 size is a meme but maybe it has some DIY application. https://www.ebay.com/itm/318830331973?
>>65529491Damn I missed a good time. More like, I’ll tell you when you can miss a fight, drone.>>65529569I misread this as 9x39 rated plate >ramblings Tell me why if ball detent fastening works for rotary barrels why can’t we have plates secured to frames via ball detents and forgo the plate bag entirely?
>>65529638>I misread this as 9x39 rated plate>*flashbacks to that guy who thought 9x39 could clear XSAPIs intensifies*>why can’t we have plates secured to frames via ball detents and forgo the plate bag entirely?Wouldn't work with all carriers and plate shapes. Also if you have to put a hole through the plate, the detent itself becomes a frag risk and the holes are a weak spot. Plates are down enough already on coverage. Let's not reduce that even more.
>>65529687You’re telling me cheat holes couldn’t be a fantastic marketing opportunity? We could do indentations in the plate or polymer. I dream of barebones plate harnesses.
>>65529940Just get a plateframe mayne you talking crazy like the diaz brothers. For all I know, not having a dangler 6x8 got my friend Angel Fernandez killed, but that's history. I got a Jinwudun battle skirt, he didn't. All I got in this world are my balls... and my word, and I don't put holes in boron carbide for fuckin nobody. You understand?
>>65529506I looked into them, then and the Z-Bolts. Not cheap by the time you kit them out but I think they have potted heads. I love the Z-Bolt Crane dual switch tailcaps. One of the two companies has a chart that shows what brands they work with. >>65529504Yeah doesn’t sound like (have iodine, that’s the first line of defense.)
>>65529569Looks like some early 90s speedplate shit. Aside from abdominal/dangler armor I'd be wary.
>>65530348Somehow it's all from the last decade. 7x9 speed plates at least had the utility of being light and a minimal weight / ergonomic impact. 9x9 is just splitting the difference and is awkward.>danglerI was thinking take the straps off the carrier and use new all-PE 9x9s as large abdominal front and back or XXL sides.
Also maybe a deal here. Pair of 9x11, not really 10x12 Highcom 4S16s bidding at $200 without shipping. 6.2lb a plate, no drop protection, 0.7" thick standalone.https://www.ebay.com/itm/407212172720SAPI M is 7.3lb, so yes the 10x12s are badly undersized.
Another bastard mixed setup. A Highcoom AR500 III steel plate and a Level IV 4S17M. Apparently the 4S17M was the front plate and the AR500 was the rear.Doing Level IV front, III rear was a thing back in the 1990s but odd to see it today. My assumption is that dudebro couldn't afford two 4S17Ms and they stuck him with a cheap ass $45 steel plate to get the sale for probably $250 together.
>>65531021I like this idea of party in the front pl8. Though does this affect carrier balance slightly either weight mismatch?
What's the consensus on the T. Rex T212 plates? They just seem so cheap for something from a name brand company.
>>65531153The whole "party armor in the front" thing was a mutation of many old school armor systems, in particular first gen Ranger Body Armor, only having a front plate. The most extreme example of this was the 1998-2003 Austrian Jagdkommando / GIGN "Super LIBA" system from Tencate where you had a 20-hit 7.62x51mm M993 rated, 15x16" beast of a front plate but the rest is soft armor. Stout soft armor, but still something any rifle can sail through. That stuff went by the wayside for good reason. Rationale was that you have the initiative and are facing the enemy at all times. Doesn't work in most situations. People didn't want to go all in on front + back so they coped with weaker rear armor. If your front plate is so heavy that you can't run a pair, run a lighter plate. If the threat level demands that front plate, you need it front + back. The enemy can flank you or ambush you from the rear. This goes double in urban situations, which is why RBA needed that rear plate in 1993.>Though does this affect carrier balance slightly either weight mismatch?Yes but in this case not severely. The AR500 and 4S17M are both roughly the same weight. Where it gets janky as all hell is if you do something like ESAPI front, SAPI rear, or for an extreme Ukrainian example B-32 + 7N39 DSTU-6+ front and a PE plate rear. I heard but cannot confirm some Russians are now doing GOST-BR6 .50 cal plate front, BR5 rear.>>65531166It's a Hesco, basically the "true" successor to the old L210. Thin, sorta light, single curve, good for multiple M855A1. Will lose to .308 hard just like the L210.It's a good "street" plate for urban situations but is not ideal at all if you're in the boonies and/or have a sniper issue.
>>65531153Here's another example of a mixed setup, this time Russian and from 2012.>Developed in 2012 and issued to Vympel. The design was a new take on a harness style vest. It has full GOST 1+ soft armor coverage with ACP-G 6A plate for the front and a smaller round shape pistol plate on the back to protect spine and heart. Vest had mixed opinions with the officers. Later on it was also issued to SSO snipers in Atacs FG and Multicam to eastern regional unit FSB Sachalin who needed a flexible vest for ship boarding operations. Multicam version was spotted in Ukraine at the start of the war as well. The ACP-G is an interesting plate. 10x13 "universal" SiC-PE 7.7lb hexagonal tile array. Good for 5x 7.62x54R B-32 API or 5.56x45mm M995, with usual GOST sub-17mm BFD when worn with the required CAP panel. Do not confuse with the heavier, beefier ACP-M which is 9lb and good for at least 2x 7.62x54R 7N37. If you size correct these to regular 10x12 shooters, you get 6.9lb for the ACP-G and 8.1lb for the ACP-M, which actually isn't terrible at all given 7N37 clears plates like the Adept Colossus easily.Per the blurb, this was used for ship boarding operations and given to snipers, so at least in theory the lack of a back plate isn't an absolute killer. Also showed up at the start of the Ukrainian war, which tells me they ditched it later on for a front + back getup.
Also according to this fellow armor autist Bromo Industries, they have since made the Fort Technologies ACP-M into a... full torso cut! It also apparently has some capability (likely ~800m standoff like other "BR5+" 7N37 plates) against 12.7mm API. This sucker's gonna be heavy in that size. Probably ~11-12lb.This seems to support the theory that the Russians are also doing .50 cal API plate front, something way less in the back to this day. Interesting. Mixed setups may be alive after all.
Last new Fort Technologies development. ACP-GV. Boron Carbide BR5+ plate rated for 7.62x54R B-32 API, 5.45x39 7N39 tungsten core, and steel core 7.62x39mm 7N23. Weight-wise it's supposed to be similar to ESAPI. Kinda neat. It's Alpha Group stuff, per Bromo Industries. On the right is what Russians are actually fielding.I think maybe if AR500 Armor moved to Russia they would make a lot of money.
alright who's got good lamps?
>buy GSSH-01 headset on eBay in may.>sellers says it will arrive in July>July comes it's still not here.>Ask again says it will arrive in August, it's fucking September now.WHERE THE FUCK IS MY HEADSET YOU CUNT?!
>>65533941You got got. Complain to ebay, although I doubt they'll do anything since it's been so long and you did nothing until now. Best you get the seller kicked out.
>>65533941Ah fuck I was actually looking at one of those and saw the Chinese have it knockoffed to hell.>complain to ebayYou had a thirty day window to file Item Not Received and this would have been cake. Get in touch with ebay CS.>>65533943If he gets an actual body he'll be fine. Ebay has outsourced most of their CS to AI or "AI" so you'll get denied until you escalate.
>>65534207you got the whole internet at your fingertits cuhThe seller wasn't H-Flying by chance, was it?
Somebody critique this breaching tool advice:>I’m telling you, all you need is a halligan and a 6lbs flat head axe. That’s it. Grind the adze of your Halligan to make it flatter, I’m not sure what brand that is but make sure the adze is exactly 2in wide, and 6 inches long. It looks less than 2 inches and it’s very important that it is at least 2 inches wide.>On the forks grind a slight mark 1 3/4 inches and 5 3/4 inches. These will indicate door and door frame thickness to let you know when you are clear of them.>The axe is a hammer and a wedge, and the halligan is a hammer, wedge, and lever. If you learn about mechanical advantages and door construction those will be the only tools you ever need. The ram works fine on unreinforced residential doors and that’s about it.
>>65534340nah, a solid ram is always a good plan conus. most of your external doors are going to swing in, and that’s often the only door you’ll actually need to breach. The ram is the tool we use most often. I will say it’s the most cumbersome tool and one I leave at the breach point. a lot of interiors are defeated fairly easily by even smaller tools like the good dude concepts BRB or other similair 8-10” pry bars. the big issue with interior breaching is that mechanical methods involve noise and standing right next to or in front of the door, and a sufficiently motivated adversary can and will blast you through the dry wall. This is one of the many reason explosive breaches are so clutch, you can remotely open the door. none of this takes away from the fact that halligans are great purpose-built breaching tools that you should familiarize yourself with.
>>65534536Sounds like solid info. What's your take on the Rip Ram for situations involving outward opening storm doors? https://surplus.botach.com/rip-ram-breaching-forcible-entry-device-police-trade/
Alright, new deals at Brotach. Four sets of Highcum 4S17 10x12s (really 9x11 or so), Level IV single curves, $160 a set.https://surplus.botach.com/armor-express-4s17-10x12-sc-level-iv-hard-armor-plates-set-police-trade/They also have a pair of Armor Express-branded Hesco 4400s (ugh) for $200. Onr of the four Hesco problem models.https://surplus.botach.com/armor-express-harrier-iv-sa-4400-10x12-level-iv-hard-armor-plates-set-police-trade/The 4S17s aren't great and sizing is an issue but $160 a pair for NIJ certified IVs ain't bad gents. I would pass on the 4400s.
Gentlemen. Please bear witness to the greatest body armor ever invented, from FORT Technologies of Russia.
>>65535099Oh my stars, they copy everything!
>>65535146Those fucking Russians even copied CREDENTIAL-BLOCKING plates! Filin is now cock-teasing new BR5+ models rated for multi-hit 7.62x54R 7N37, the legendary XSAPI buster. One up top is Aluminum Oxide and is the cheapo heavier model, one below is Silicon Carbide and is the primo model.
Also time to repost this. Buffman extensively tested the Adept Colossus, which is more or less the strongest plate commercially available CONUS unless you count that EDUN 12.7mm API plate, and 7N37 defeats it conditioned at 2,714ft/s. The Colossus defeats 7.62x51mm M993 at or above 3,400ft/s, which is 300ft/s above maximum required XSAPI velocity, so it's very conclusive that 7N37 > M993 rated plates by a substantial margin.
>>65535146mistah roboto
Good nvg set up?
>>65529455Would you /gq/?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-sxUhF624E
>>65536085Her? Hell yeah.
>>65535819budget?
>>65529514So I realized I failed to describe this sucker. Prototype second-gen 3TEX 3WEAVE Level IV ICW IIIA plate from 2004. 6lb exactly for a 10x12, 0.5" thick on the dot. Alumina strike face and an orthogonally-weaved E-glass backer. This tech was 3TEX's signature and was licensed to Second Chance, later bought by the parent co of Safariland / Protech. Basically, this plate is a prototype Protech X-CAL AP. Specs are almost identical. Not great in 2026, but not bad at all for 2004.I believe the 3WEAVE manufacturing process was later used in the hybrid PE-fiberglass backer of the Protech 2230-1.
>>65534677two breachers, screen door man to hold the door, then a normal breach. If we’re really concerned about the breach team getting shot, battering ram on the armored vehicle and open the door that way.ive never seen/used that linked tool, but you can have one guy pop the screen door with a pry bar, never seen the screen door reinforced, just the inner door, but my experience is not exhaustive
>>65535819Get yourself an Omni. Photonis isn’t horrible but it’s also not worth the price.
>>65536923Neat. It's an older tool and is basically supposed to be a two man device. Use the pry end to rip a metal storm door, either set it down holding the storm door or reverse it and ram the actual door.Apparently it WAS for edge cases of reinforced screen doors. Apparently there were/are veritable crack castles and fent fortresses where this would be justified.I'm thinking about throwing Brotach a lowball because they've been sitting on this 50lb shithouse blaster for over a year. I know another anon wants it bad but snooze you lose.
Deal alert. Dudebro has two sets of MSAP 5.5x6 side plates for $325 and $350 negotiable in two separate listings.These are the "Tactical" version Buffman tested which provide B-32 API protection officially and can do M2AP but on a sketchy high-BFD basis. Very light for their cost/protection.https://www.ebay.com/itm/398349332987?This other guy has a pair of similar MSAPs for $230 but has only 93% positive on ebay (which is ass), with reviews stating he doesn't package properly. That's a serious red flag for armor.https://www.ebay.com/itm/820104796441
How braindead would it be to buy two Gilliam ICW RF3 plates for like 300 bucks, and just use them as standalone RF2s?Gotta be better than my 1155 single curves, right? In terms of wear at least.
>>65538496They're about 2.5lb lighter than a good 1155 and are true 10x12 going off the test report. PE backer versus fiberglass which RMA pretended was PE, and better quality alumina. Considering the OG 1155 only seems to do well when tested by youtubers and shits the bed versus two 7.62x51mm FMJ when tested by normal people, and isn't a IV anymore per the NIJ either, the GARMS 3 is realistically a major upgrade. Yes, it is RF2 standalone and can be beefed up to RF3 with good HG2 soft armor. The original 1155 is really bottom barrel and there's a number of ways to improve on it.The only problem with the GARMS 3 is no drop protection, but just pick some of those $10 foam SAPI pads and run them in front of the plates.
>>65538553Thanks, I bought my plates during 2020 always intending to upgrade them later. Now it seems RMA have fallen out of favor and 16+ pounds of plates with no side armor kinda blows. I'm going to look at getting a MEPC as well since my carrier is some oddball made by Shellback which they don't seem to make anymore.
>>65538569Glad to help. The GARMS 3 is a solid call for the budget. I'd prefer a pair of Protech 2230-1s, but that's just me and I'm anal with safety margin, but those aren't surped out yet.>Now it seems RMA have fallen out of favorThey've always been out of favor except on reddit, which is astroturfed to high hell. Unfortunately, the armor autists over there aren't willing or able to call balls and strikes with RMA's latest tricks. Huge undersizing, no drop pro, bottom corners cut, zero safety margin, very high BFD, etc.>and 16+ pounds of plates with no side armor kinda blowsYeah that's rough. RMA played a very smart game where they sold those 1155s out the ass (because they were $200 a pair or less on sale) and then when people couldn't take the weight they sold them some 1090-series RF2s. The industry is actually smaller than most people think. The only way to stay afloat is to get repeat customers who will both vouch for you to newbs and can be sold new, "better" plates every so often.Highcom did the same thing when they sold a shitload of 4SAS4s, an equally shoddy plate, and then when people freaked out about their inability to take a 4ft drop onto concrete, offloaded another huge batch of overstock AR1000 steel plates you can throw off a cliff.
Fun fact, I just tested it and I can confirm 6x5.5 Ceradyne MSAPs fit the special threat pocket on Protech deltoids like a glove in front of the IIIA soft.I now have Level IV shoulder protection, lol.
Not really sure where else to ask but I am interested in doing private security in South Africa. Not to get too into detail but I have a lot of the qualifications a spot would be looking for to do that stuff In reference to practical experience I’ve won attacks when I haven’t been armed and someone else had a guns, knife, etc., I’ve negotiated hostage scenarios; and lived thru events where I may have been killed in my sleep if I didn’t set my precautions up correctly. I don’t say they lightly, I mean credible threat I wouldn’t wake up the next morning every day for months on endAnyway; does anyone know the route to go about doing that work? It’s more so I want to step foot in South Africa for a few months, do my part in preventing the genocide, and leaving. I’m not interested in money; I just want the experience
>>65536375No budget limit. I want head wearable monocular or binocular with IR floor lamp paired with IR lamp and laser weapon mounted device. >>65537094>pvs 14That’s the standard for which I’m going because it’s what I’m familiar with. Do these civilian models have IR lamps? It looks like it but the ad doesn’t say unless I’m missing it
>>65538699Based but probably outside of the wheelhouse here. I'd maybe try Primary & Secondary or Lightfighter and then wait two weeks for a response because those forums are slow AF
>>65538611So would the 1635 or whatever basically be their competitor for the 1155?Standalone seems easier to deal with but I guess the ICW RF3 plate is scalable
>>65538856The 1635 is actually their competitor to the RMA 1165. Both are Aluminum Oxide faced, UHMWPE backer. RMA is tricky about this because their 10x12s are tiny, but the 1155 is really a dated fiberglass-backed plate and is 7.4lb SAPI M (9.5x12.5), and that's not even true SAPI M. They call it PE backed, but that's in the adhesive. The plate's weight is clearly indicative of fiberglass. Previously the 1155 was 7.6lb. They made it and the 1165 even smaller for "fitment issues." That means a true 10x12 would be 7.4lb. The "10x12" 6.6lb they're selling is like a 9.375x11.375 with bottom corners cut. The 1635 would be about 6.6lb SAPI M, so it's a much lighter plate and is directly comparable to the 1165. Rule of thumb. There should never be more than a 0.2-0.3lb difference between a 10x12 and a 9.5x12.5 SAPI M, with the SAPI being heavier of the two. If the difference is greater, the 10x12 is not close to 10x12.The trick is this. Gilliam uses Chinese UHMWPE and therefore is able to offer the 1635 for less than domestic makes' fiberglass backed plates. Chinese do not generally sell fiberglass backed plates unless it's really bottom dollar shit. Their PE is likely state-subsidized.>Standalone seems easier to deal with but I guess the ICW RF3 plate is scalableThe 1635 is literally just the GARMS 3 with some extra backer and drop protection, so either is scalable. Back the 1635 with IIIA and you up the v50 for all threats in case you're ever faced with stuff beyond IV, which can happen. Probable? No. Possible? Yes. If you're ever faced with M2AP proper odds are decent it'll be reloaded out of a .300 Win.
>>65538917Really m855 is the most realistic thread I'd imagine as you can buy it anywhere. M855 is so expensive that I doubt many people are loading mags with that.
>>65539003It's 45 cents a round with free shipping. Shit's so common they even have a song with 17 million views named after it. If you're in the city, it is 100% a problem. Suburbs? Problem. Rural areas? Probably gonna be out of a longer barrel, and therefore a bigger problem.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKjY6-lhY2ADocGKR, a law enforcement SME on the topic, was advocating specifically for M193 + M855 + M80 protection as a patrol baseline since the mid 2000s. Twenty years later and NIJ has seconded him with RF2 in 0101.07. Good news is that if dudes are going on a lick with M855 it'll probably be out of a short barrel ARP, so velocity will be down and RF1 plates MIGHT be able to skirt, but that's sketchy and you should have RF2 unless you know the threat level is low or hunting rifles are more important. All-PE plates an inch thick or more do magnum hunting calibers better than ceramic-PE as long as nothing has a hardened core. Doc also advocated for M855A1 + M80A1 if you're specifically near a military base, since things do get legs. However, where he starts to lose people is when he calls IV stupid and advocates for even higher rated plates, which are usually either more expensive or much heavier. At some point you gotta call it. Gilliam's 8002 IV++ rated for real hard tungsten carbide threats doesn't move units for a reason. He's discontinuing it for a reason. The Given the presence of M2AP since the end of WW2 as common milsurp ammo, and the absolute ease with which it handles III-III+ plates, I'm of the belief III + IV (6x 7.62x51mm M80 or at least one .30-06 M2AP) dual rating is ideal for CONUS (unless it's a REALLY bad day) but you usually have to pay the piper on weight or price for that. Lightest on tap is the Tencate CXP-800 SA at 5.4lb and it's $3k/set. Cheapest are police-surp 2230s for $350/set, 7.5lb / 1.2" and are good for M2AP over 3,500ft/s (which is hot .300 Weatherby reload territory), but are getting hard to find.
>>65538843Got it; much appreciated. I’ll check into the forum. I screenshotted your comment. I can’t find too much on YouTube about what’s going on in rural farms after a quick search so I know it’s bad. Thankfully I’ve got a bunch of kit already done; so in reference to hireablilty I just need to get the ITAR permit stuff done and I’m pretty much ready to go. I’d like to believe someone with high end equipment and actual training is extremely marketable; but who knows. Shit, I might take my body camera and make a YouTube channel and get some good documentation on what’s going on depending on how things play out
>>65539133I love the idea of a YT channel.Tell us how the ITAR paperwork worked out once done, especially for armor. I know some Euroanons are up shit creek lately with poor options. Being able to export from the US rather than do PGD, some Hescos, Adepts, regional mostly Chinese brands, etc, or used 20 year old Mehler Vario / Tencates is helpful.Also there are pics floating about of assclowns in SA running serious backpack signal jammers, same kind as those in Ukraine. If you ever see any, let us know for statistical purposes.
>>65539154Well; I can’t make any promises. I was checking and there’s a fair bit of regulations and stuff requiring citizenship and what not. I could theoretically go as a foreign worker, but who knows if it their gov will actually accept that.I’m also going thru my own (civil) legal headaches at home so we will see if it’s even feasible once everything is said and done. Don’t get me wrong; I love the idea and I want to follow thru. But for right now this is just a dreamWith ITAR stuff I will definitely try to keep u guys in the loop But I want to be clear and not get anyone’s hopes up; it’s just a dream and I might not be able to. 2 years ago, fucking 100%. I didn’t know I could go over there for work or the stuff was still going on 2 years ago. I didn’t know I could go over there until earlier this morning; and I’m going to try to make it happen
>>65539217Best of luck to you then. If you can't ITAR out Level IV plates then Adept has a Euro facility they can ship plates from. Highly recommended you look at their Bulletfoam trauma pad / plate backer if you think safari rifles are gonna be a problem.
>>65538856Here's a comparison pic (not mine) of the new RMA 1155 versus an actually SAPI M RMA XRT. As you can see, the "10x12" actually 9.5x11.5 with 0.125" variance is substantially shorter. I see this one was made in December 2025. RMA made the plates even smaller a few months ago (allegedly because the 9.5x12.5s were slightly oversize and wouldn't fit 9.5x12.5 platebags, but they did the same for the 10x12s too, so the excuse is likely BS), so this isn't even as bad as it gets. This is a huge industry problem. Highcom's 10x12s are often straight up 9x11s. And yes, this is entirely to cheat on weight. Many of Highcom's plates appear lighter than Hesco counterparts on paper, but if you equalize sizing then the Hescos are almost always lighter. This is especially true for PE plates.One more point on the issue. There is a difference between a plate which measures 9.5x12.5 and a plate which actually provides 9.5x12.5 coverage. Account for the exterior cover and a rash guard (mini cheat ring) on many plates, and the actual coverage becomes smaller. I know this sounds like I'm grasping at hairs, but when armor covers as little as it does, a mere reduction from 10x12 to 9.5x11.5 with bottom corners is over a 12% reduction in coverage.
Another sizing comparison. This time an 1165 GEN2, 9.5x11.5 not-10x12, versus an XRT SAPI M. For some reason these mixed setups where a smaller but stronger plate is up front are quite popular with the RMA and Highcom crowds.
>>65539400At this point all you can trust is either NIJ CPL or milsurp. Anything else plays the sizing game.
>>65539450>At this point all you can trust is either NIJ CPLNope. Highcom has numerous models on the NIJ CPL which are sold as 10x12s but are really 9x11s. See pic related. There's no NIJ rule actually defining what a "10x12 shooter's cut" is. It's an industry made up term. It's the NIJ which also permits cheat ringed plates, see NIJ 0101.06 section 7.6.1.>>The armor manufacturer shall define the acceptable minimum shot-to-edge distance for each armor model and each threat that will be tested against the armor. For armor types subjected to a single threat and for the lighter weight threat round when two threats are specified, the minimum shot-to-edge distance shall not be greater than 51 mm (2.0 in). For the heavier threat round when two threats are specified, the minimum shot-to-edge distance shall not be greater than 76 mm (3.0 in).RMA pulled this shit with the 1189 and 1199, providing only 8x10" protection on a 10x12" plate. It is technically acceptable per the above for a plate to provide only 6x8" protection on a 10x12. Because Level IV / RF3 are single strike requirements, IVs can get a lot more frisky with sizing than IIIs which need the raw surface area to handle six 7.62x51mm M80 with a min. spacing of 51mm between them, all within the shot-to-edge box as well. Another point for III+IV dual rated plates. The mere requirement of having to do both III and IV filters egregious sizing bullshittery.>or milsurpOr policesurp for that matter. Specific contract terms control and if a contract, military, police, or otherwise says the plate shall measure 9.5x12.5, it will measure 9.5x12.5. My III+IV Protech 2230s are 10x12 police surp plates. They are indeed... 10x12.If you want to force sizing, use SAPI sizes. However, this doesn't stop "variance" - the yang to nominal sizing's yin.
>>65539479Of course a lot of cheaper PCs only hold 10x12" maximum so SAPI Ms won't fit. Fun.
>>65539509Time to stick with Gilliam, Hesco, or Safariland. Maybe some of the good Chinese brands like Militech, but they have a lot of light cheat rings. Point Blank is probably fine but I know they have a substantial variance listed on their site. I think a lot of PB is that much of their lineup is a mix of numerous bought-out companies' models continued for legacy purposes. PPI, CPC, Paraclete, etc. Like if Hesco bought out Highcom and inherited the 4SAS7, it'd still be a 9x11.LTC and Tencate are also a little gamey on sizing too. Even Ceradyne isn't perfect. BAE Systems is the wildcard as always.
Hey, look what's for sale on ebay! Plates!I don't think these need an introduction...https://www.ebay.com/itm/237082717039
>>65539252Good call. I checked into it with ITAR and there appears to be an exception for a single set of plates I’m looking at stuff and it’s kinda weird, but personal equipment does appear to be something you can take I appreciate the input Anon; I wasn’t worried about safari weapons as, from my understanding, they’re mostly using musket style firearms for poaching. But your commend made me realize I probably have the wrong attitude
Where do you all source 40mm filters?
>>65539581A fair number of goons in SA have been spotted using rusty AKs and stolen R4/R5 Galil clones. I'd carry something capable of stopping 5.56 M193 (standard SANDF round) and 7.62x39 MSC, which thanks to China is everywhere in Africa.
>>65539600DefinitelyI’d go level IV cause that’s what I already haveI’m going to see if I can bring my firearms over cause I’m more comfortable with them. Alternatively; I’d love to be running around the backwoods of South Africa with a 5.56 AK, but a man can only dream.I’d probably bring hydroshock 9mm and M855 if I can (I’d rather M855A1, but then I’m cutting into my supply budget since this is more or less vacation for me). I doubt I’d need a breaching shotgun. I would probably want to get a .308. I’m debating on getting an old receiver for a Mauser pattern and building it from the ground up (Idk, something about watching over the vast African plains with an FN made Mauser with the Sears label sounds comfy)
>>65529455I've been putting something together and it just occurred to me I could have bought one of those african battle jackets or whatever that thing is called. Would have been cheaper too.
>>65539581Big game rifles don't really penetrate all that well, unless they're slinging steel or tungsten core, they just produce excessive BFD. For reference, a .338 Lapua 250gr per Buffman's testing produces 75mm BFD against a passable LA Police Gear IV. NIJ limit is 44mm. A .375 H&H will probably produce less. Something like a .416 Rem, .458 Winmag, Lott, etc probably more. You can trauma pad this down but you'll want something good, not the 10mm memeshit pads. Russian CAP panels are very good for this and can be sourced Chinese on the cheap.>>65539600Good news is that 0101.07 RF1 specifically calls for Chinese 7.62x39mm MSC, so you can protect against those two rounds for sub-2lb a plate using the Hesco 3801.>>65539646What IVs? Gotta be a bit cautious because those 500gr .458 grand slams can kill ESAPIs
>>65539073My fault, I meant M855 was the threat, M855A1 the expensive one. I didn't mean to be a retard.
>>65539814Ah, that makes more sense. All good. M855A1 is the same deal as M2AP. It's not an active "street threat" but it's an ambient threat. If things get nasty, it will appear.Fortunately it's not that penalizing to armor. A1 plates are about a pound heavier each versus their M855 counterparts. I mean you could just save your shekels and buy >>65539554, those will really cover your CONUS bases if backed with IIIA and they pass tap / torque / aren't otherwise compromised.>IYKYK
>>65539790Knowing my luck someone would be packing that stuff. I’ll definitely run at least a level IV front SAPI. I appreciate the soft backer reference. I was looking at rifle scopes and my Primary Arms has some really okay stuff for $500 for their 3-18x. Any idea if that’s good? I want to do a 2x magnifier and an 18x cause budget but that is probably a bad idea
>>65539665I get the feeling. DIY however pays off in the end and you learn much by doing it.I'm working on uparmoring a pair of $30 riot leg guards with cheap IIIA myself.
>>65540009>Knowing my luck someone would be packing that stuff. I’ll definitely run at least a level IV front SAPI.Running a mixed setup, are we? If you're cool with mix-and-matching, which isn't standard practice and is usually advised against, there's a single Protech 2230 on Gunbroker for about $300. I have a pair of these. They're rated for .30-06 M2AP at over 3,510ft/s versus basic NIJ IV's 2,910ft/s max requirement and have a substantial built-in trauma pad. 7.5lb, 1.2" thick multi-curve. They aren't officially rated for any tungsten core threats, but they're a lot stronger than your average Level IV plate and are very well suited for big game calibers because of that trauma pad.https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1200590844I think a .458 Winmag 500gr tungsten Grand Slam might be able to brute force, but they stopped making those bullets ages ago IIRC. I don't think a .375 H&H non-penetrator will be a problem.>I appreciate the soft backer reference.Pic related has details on these Russian "CAP" panels, bottom of the infograph. They make your stuff a lot thicker but dramatically reduce backface signature. Also ventilation, which is kinda nice. There are many different models and this is not an exhaustive infographic. I actually need to update this.>I was looking at rifle scopes and my Primary Arms has some really okay stuff for $500 for their 3-18x. Any idea if that’s good? I want to do a 2x magnifier and an 18x cause budget but that is probably a bad ideaPA is generally quality. 2x magnifier and 18x is... odd. Not a fan. Price shop versus Arken to make sure you're getting a good deal. Also, are you bringing a thermal? That'll need to be ITAR'd out but is a major advantage.
>>65539554Alright, bad news on this one. Ebay dudebro is selling just one plate. It's an MH3 CQB, which is badass, but $700 for a single, no drop no foam, 23 year old plate is terrible.
>>65540102Anon I owe you big timeI wasn’t even thinking about thermals at this point. But you are right. The reason behind the 18x and 2x was because I thought it was cheaper. Arken looks like a decent choice; I’d need to research into it. I have the application and have my credentials in. I am going to wait a day or two to make sure to send this in and make sure I genuinely want to do this before I waste their time. Please tell me about thermals. I might not be able to purchase them because my legal bills are in the tens of thousands. But I would definitely take it into consideration In your opinion, should I go thermals over a DMR/Sniper; I’d imagine it’s easier to get a sniper or DMR then it is thermals. I will consider the level IV plate for sure; I still need to train myself up for that type of weight and rucking. Frame is still there, but I am definitely not what I used to be. So that’s a little down the road I thankfully have qores vents and their ice plateI like the idea of having a stand off of 1,000+ yards, but I don’t know if I can even reasonably see that. I’m debating on if a trench scope is better. It’ll be fun to talk with the employers if they take me up on the offer for what to buy. But I do appreciate this because I have a plan if I can make it happen
>>65540156>Please tell me about thermals. I might not be able to purchase them because my legal bills are in the tens of thousands.So there's three kinds. Thermal weapon sights, thermal clip ons that go in front of your regular scope, and handheld / helmet-mountable thermals. Some models can fit into more than one of the prior categories. Infographics in the emporium have more info. >>65529481The absolute best deal for a dedicated, standalone thermal weapon sight is the Oneleaf MT1000LRF starting at $1,400.https://oneleaf.ai/mars-mt1000lrf-thermal-riflescope.htmlIdeal handheld would be Iray RH25 V2, but it's expensive. Also a clip on. Poverty unit would be a $300-400 Raytheon Palm 250 IR or maybe one of the Aliexpress monos.The problems with a thermal are as follows:1. You still need to positively ID what you're shooting at.2. Battery life. You're lucky if you get 10 hours without shutting it off. You'll need to stock up on batteries, usually 18650s or CR123s, and figure out a way to field recharge unless you have a reliable guard shack or something with electricity.3. You can't see through glass with thermals.4. The thermal is useless if it's dead.>In your opinion, should I go thermals over a DMR/Sniper; I’d imagine it’s easier to get a sniper or DMR then it is thermals.Do handheld thermal and then normal rifle scope unless you're damn positive you can work with the Oneleaf. A COTI (clip on) would be nice but those Irays are expensive and nobody wants a 256x192 poverty unit that looks like phone modem porn.>I will consider the level IV plate for sureYou can't beat the 2230 as police surp, it's the best budget Level IV plate /k/ has seen in years.>I like the idea of having a stand off of 1,000+ yardsOkay you're gonna want a normal scope for that, Oneleaf isn't gonna be able to deal.
>>65540156What the fuck is this post? You have some plate shaped water bottles, but no plates? And your job, is going to be hunting some malnourished negros in South Africa? Now you're pivoting to wanting a DMR/Sniper, but you're not aware that you can get a thermal scope for those? Those malnourished negros are going to vent you and your plate shaped water bottles.
>>65540197Yeah I dunno what's going on but he's asking fun questions. Cue the music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAlbLHdPvcA
>>65540197No I have plates. 3+, level IV, and 3a. My level IV might have compromised ceramic and my 3+ is steel RMA. I’m aware of a thermal scope; I’m still stuck in the early 2020s when it was all about NIR and night vision
>>65540223Let me rephrase; not even early 2020s. More so pre Ukraine
>>65540223>my 3+ is steel RMAAh shit, the back-spalling shit plates they rebranded from Spartan because people were panic buying during COVID and couldn't wait in line for ceramics? That's a flashback.I gotta be honest, I was a noob then but the armor scene then was... a scene. Dudes buying plates like crazy, steel making a comeback because nobody could find in stock ceramics, college students buying 28595s and 4800s on covidbux and student loan pauses then selling said plates at huge losses when the bills came due and nothing ever happened, ridiculous hate trains on Hesco because they had four consecutive NIJ suspensions, ergh.>My level IV might have compromised ceramic and my 3+ is steel RMA.Why do you only have singles? I feel like I missed something because you're the third guy who's running a mixed setup with RMA or Highcum armor.>I’m aware of a thermal scope; I’m still stuck in the early 2020s when it was all about NIR and night visionNot meaning to well aktshually you, but thermals have been around for decades. The Chinese have since mastered the technology and can now deal it on the cheap through the power of the 9-9-6 work system. The Oneleaf offers ridiculously good value because of that. An equivalent American unit will be $3k or more.
>>65540240I have to admit. I've got an AR500 testudo plate carrier, and a couple of 3+ steel plates I got in a bundle around Christmas 2020. They just sit in a plastic bin, in case I ever have to hand it out for whatever reason.
>>65540240I have a pair of level IVs. But I don’t want one that might be compromised ceramic. I’d rather buy something that’s a little more recent if I decide to go to South Africa. I haven’t been very good at stating what I have. That’s my fault; I’m intentionally vague about what I have and sometimes I talk in circles because of this. Maybe I never really cared about thermals so I didn’t pay attention; leading me to think nobody else cared. I got into body armor during Covid
Highcom better hire an SEO firm once they actually release the 4S20M, their Hesco 4800 $3k a pair lightweight IV.Search results are fucked.
>>65540246And that's not too bad. Loaner plates can be held to lower standards and often are. That's why a lot of people bought 4SAS4s and GTS OA+ and Battle Steels, because they need to run loaners for other people. Nobody wants to pay full ticket for people who at this point should have their own.The problem of course is that this normalizes crappy armor. I'm reminded of the redditors who got winded going up a single flight of stairs in 8.3lb 1155s, similar in weight to common III+ steel, which is a major fitness issue. All that weight for not-IVs that can't stop two 7.62x51mm? They're a problem. Fitness is a huge problem. Steel plates don't help. IMO, ideal loaners are PE SRTs good for street threats. Think GARMS 1s.>>65540249Nah, you're good. I probably should mention the Protech 2230s are technically expired on their warranties and are around a decade old. The reason why they're so good is that they're a previously LE-restricted, $1k/set plate and as "expired" surplus they're now on the cheap. Since it uses very advanced materials by $300-400/set plate standards, it kicks most budget IVs' asses wholesale.
>>65540195SoHow does using a thermal with a normal optic work Or why would I want to put thermals on a rifle? From my understanding; that defeats the purpose since your thermal vision is now highly limited. But I have no clue frenWhat about one thermal and one night vision monocular? I am not familiar with those set ups. All I know is my cheap $200 night vision goggles give me motion sickness
>>65540279>How does using a thermal with a normal optic workYou would run a "COTI" clip on thermal imager. It goes in front of your normal optic because thermals can't see through glass. See pic rel HISS-HD for an example, although that's a super high dollar unit around $100,000.>Or why would I want to put thermals on a rifle?Works in absolute zero-light conditions, unlike I2 night vision that needs SOME illumination. Also negates camouflage and is overall just a major cheat code on a gun.Obviously better than a normal optic if you're doing stuff at night, it's dark, and you cannot use a flashlight.>What about one thermal and one night vision monocular?A bridge or a COTI in front of a night vision tube. This is often done and very gucci setups often include night vision goggles with small COTIs attached.>All I know is my cheap $200 night vision goggles give me motion sicknessYeah that's digital bullshit. Not actual night vision. Digital NV is slowly improving... slowly... slowly... really slowly...
>>65540278I definitely like the idea of the 2230s.I will definitely consider purchasing them if I do get into SA. I’m a little concerned about cracked ceramic obviously; but I should just buy the brass hammer thing at this point to just check. I am concerned about LE purchases because they treat their gear like shit. But they also don’t put their ceramics on so I’m not sure how to feel about it all. And I’m not pulling your chain about wanting to go to South Africa. I have a bunch of baby momma drama and my ex wife is Lyndsay Clancy 2.0. So needless to say I am blowing every penny I have on lawyers. I just want to make sure you know I’m not wasting your time and I respect your time and knowledgeI do want to go to SA once this is all said and done to do the work there; or maybe go before the court cases depending on how far out it is. I might not be able to go for a long time, since my ex wife is going to be monitoring my every action like a hawk and I’m sure she’d love to use that to dispute custody arrangements (I will probably be getting full time custody with her getting visitation. Which is probably the most bullshit sounding thing you’ve read in this thread)
>>65540316>but I should just buy the brass hammer thing at this point to just checkYou got that backwards. The brass hammer is the field-expedient tap test, which checks for delamination between the plate's backer / crack arrestor and the strike face. It really only works on ESAPIs, SAPIs, XSAPIs because of the way they're constructed. If plates are heavily drop foamed and padded like the 2230s are, you're just gonna be tapping on foam.The TORQUE test (grab opposing corners of the plate, carefully twist, see if there's any give) only detects large cracks. You MUST x-ray the plates to actually guarantee condition. SMEs like DocGKR specifically recommend yearly imaging for law enforcement. Obviously regular people can't swing that unless you do the corny thing and take all your plates on a domestic flight and have the TSA check them.>I am concerned about LE purchases because they treat their gear like shit. But they also don’t put their ceramics on so I’m not sure how to feel about it all.Good news, that one guy's 2230 is fresh in wrapper and has never actually been used, just overstock. Bad news, he only has one because the 2230s are a hot commodity. When the Hesco 4403 is the go-to and shits the bed versus M2AP just 30-50ft/s above NIJ spec, and the 2230 is both lighter and handles the same threat 600ft/s faster than NIJ spec? And the 2230 is cheaper? Total lock.There are 2230-1s, the improved model which is only 6.8lb versus 7.5lb, which should be expiring on warranty soon-ish and ergo will be available second hand. Interestingly, the 2230-1 is a rebadged secret Hesco. Then there's a 2240 which is truly exceptional, but Safariland isn't giving any details about it - which is proof it's a really super plate. Expect it to "surp out" by 2029-2030, so you'll be waiting a while.>And I’m not pulling your chain about wanting to go to South AfricaAll good man, I am here to answer questions about armor. Best of luck to you in your domestic situation.
>>65540303I’ve been screenshotting this stuffI’m going to start budgeting this stuff out. Could you make a list of stuff to get, with what is the highest and lowest priority? I’ll start setting money aside and making purchases slowly I have all my first aid shit, duty belt, plate carrier, soft plate, hydration, etc. Obviously I’m working on a limited budget, but if I don’t have the right equipment to survive I will just not go or wait to go
>>65540316And here's Buffman RANGE's test results for some plates, including the 4403 I mentioned in >>65540345. As said before, Hesco's 4403 and its predecessors the 4401 / 4400 have been the go-to budget Level IV since like 2016, having dethroned the Highcom 4SAS7 which held the chair from 2009 to then, having replaced the original, "real" Highcom 4SAS4 in 2008. The 4SAS4 in pic related is a totally different plate which Highcom attempted to masquerade as the 0101.04-certified 4SAS4 from 18 years ago. Very sketchy shit.Depending on which chrono you use, the 4403 lost to M2AP as little as 25 feet per second above NIJ spec. That's because Hesco builds plates to spec and then not a hair more, generally. Some plates like the 4601, 4K10, and whatever the 2230-1 actually is (4650?) are exceptions.The point is that the 2230 is playing hard to find for good reason. People don't like the "catch-22" of the 4403 being overkill for common CONUS threats, but underkill for how M2AP would actually present itself (out of a .300 win mag, pissing hot) in a SHTF situation. The 4403 is certainly still workable, you just have to be aware of its limitations. It is a Level IV. It is not a "IV+". It is not a III either. It will fail the Level III test too, as many Level IVs do (not the 2230!) and Hesco is very upfront about that.
>>65540349I refer you to the old /gq/ gear pyramid. Check off what you already have and prioritize the stuff in red first, work your way up. Admittedly, this infographic is meant for people in CONUS so adapt for the fact you're going into a more adverse, kinetic environment. You should be able to get most shit done for under $3k except for thermals / NV. Those are the high roller items. Do consider stocking spares. If you're buying 2230s, you should buy three because you will not be able to get a replacement if one gets hit. I dunno how you're getting more than one right now.>Obviously I’m working on a limited budget, but if I don’t have the right equipment to survive I will just not go or wait to goI feel like you should get the domestic thing straightened out first. I'm just saying these posts can come up in discovery and dad going on an expensive Wild Geese esque frolic in South Africa is gonna look kinda shit to the Court, chief.
>>65540012If it's good then there is nothing like it on the market. We'll see tomorrow or Sunday.
>>65540408I appreciate the post. I shall check into everything I must sleep. Goodnight tho fren, and I appreciate everything!
>>65540429Neato. In the meanwhile, if anyone is interested in absolute budget soft armor backers, a small outfit by the name of... >Aromr Dog Body Armor>Armor Dog Body Armor>Armor Dog Body Armor is Dedicated to manufacturing and selling both Stand alone body armor plate's For Bullet Proof Vests , and Spall Stopper Body Armour Plate's , and Re Purposing out of Warranty Body Armor , Bullet Proof Vests. All made in the USA and only sold in the USA.is in the business of cutting up expired Level II or IIIA soft armor panels (I dunno where they're getting them from... department trash can?) into common plate backer sizes, along with sides like 5x7s and 6x8s. Prices are real cheap and shipping is free, but this is a real fast-and-loose operation. Proceed with caution. Funny dog though.Technically you could do the same thing with kevlar shears and whatever he's using to re-seal the panels. Considering the age of some of the panels, I am concerned about Zylon. Also concerned about a lot of things...https://www.ebay.com/str/aromrdogbodyarmor
>>65540452Glad to help
>>65540102>>65540156>>65540195>>65540223>>65540240>>65540249>>65540279>>65540303>>65540349Nerfanon here with a word on thermals and NV. Analog NV (especially cheaper stuff) CAN have issues with voltage float, ie don't use rechargeables with them. Thermals and digitals have zero problem with them. Also, you might look into getting cheap Chinese thermals directly shipped from Aliexpress or whatever to SA. Easier and cheaper than getting them ITAR'd out from CONUS. Digital NV requires active IR illumination, which most troublemakers will be completely ignorant of, but all it takes is one with a cheap Chinese digital to see your beam and decide to change tactics. A thermal is fully passive, which means no emissions of its own, so you're more stealthy.You can get Chinese thermal monos for like $300-400 equivalent in Rand shipped to SA from Aliexpress. At that price just buy three (two for use, one backup) and charge them up in daytime. Also you might look into cheap folding solar panels for device charging, since SA is literally Africa and there's a lot of it where running water and electricity can be spotty, but the sun always shines whether you want it to or not. On that note anti-diarrhea pills and a water filter could be very useful too.
>>65540658NTA but good info.>>65531166I think I saw your post on the big R, so I'm going to critique the list of T212 "alternatives" the armor autist over there sent you. He tends to just quote Apex, who oversells armor constantly, verbatim and says wrong shit accordingly. >RMA ESRT, Has a redacted Buffman test where it lost to BZ API despite being rated for BZ API. RMA's guy threw a rager and got Buff to take the vid down for bad optics. Made by an armor company that plays games and doesn't take accountability. Avoid. Just write off the entire company.>Hesco M210Good. Major upgrade from the T212 but more costly.>LTC 26135Bad. Dated Alumina swimmer cut plates which are Level IV and far heavier than the T212s. Also no drop protection, 7lb for a SAPI M. Multi hit questionable due to age of design and low thickness. At this point look at Hesco 4403s.>LTC 27105 level 3/4ICW, Oh, good, he's no longer calling this Level III standalone after he got corrected. This is useless standalone and needs soft armor for either III or IV, putting you over 7lb per plate. Not a bad plate if used correctly but it is NOT an alternative to an SRT. Too heavy, too thick when you actually account for soft armor. No drop protection. If you want III/IV dual protection, go full bore and run Protech 2230s.>LTC 27148-27151See above. SAPI sized 27105. With soft you're at 7.4lb or above for a Level III/IV you can't drop. Again, why is he trying to shoe horm old IVs from Apex to replace an SRT? You be the judge.I must advise the 27105, 27148, etc are all from the mid to late 00s. They are antiquated holdout models. Also the 10x12s are often really like a 9.5x11.6.>Highcom RSTP ICWSuper undersized, 10x12 is really a 9x11. Bad.Only good option is the M210 there.
Dudebro on Tacswap has a pair of 4.9lb Armor Forge RF3s and needs cash now. They're down to $1,900!https://tacswap.com/post/6a3ad39bd530f6d7d6f44b06These are 4.9lb SAPI M, drop protection questionable. Company is iffy. The plate specs math out fine if you assume no drop protection. The "graphene" if any is largely trivial.
>armor fatigue Literally, fuck it.
>>65541314hi apex
>>65541318>1 trick ponyYawn.
>>65541428>complains about armor posting>only shows up when Apex gets rippedYushi confirmed. Go ship the plates people have been waiting months for.
I got one of those usmc modular assault pack packs and I'm wondering if there is a way to attach a drag strap to it? I'm using it as a standalone hydration pack and those straps are super convenient for picking it up but it doesn't have one. I might just put some paracord on there.
>>65541507zip ties can do anything
>>65541511With all the goofy shit out there they don't have a drag strap that attaches to molle or something? They got every other kind of strap I can attach 100 things but they gave up at the idea of a drag strap? I know some chink somewhere had to have thought of this.
>>65541535The chinese don't think of anything in this industry, they just copy and then beat on price
>>65540658Nerfanon. What's your take on this $345 china thermal with a 320x240 sensor?https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256811685395609.html?
>>6554196518350 isn't a very common battery type IIRC. Could be a problem. Also the product description mix and matches like five different products, kind of a red flag. Owlshine isn't a company I recognize, so it could be a fly by night that will dip if it shits the bed on you.Back when I was deeper into NV the only really reliable Chinese firms were iRay/Infiray and GOYOJO. I've got an Infiray DP09 that has yet to die on me, it's a pretty solid if fairly dated product.
>>65541540>The chinese don't think of anything in this industryThis is true of everything.
>>65541540So I put some expander wings on a map pack. The intent is for long range larping just to have water and a few mags on me and keep my rangefinder handy. Today was just to test it out and I wanted to shoot 5.56 so I got to try it out like that. I don't love right hand reloads. It would probably be smart to get in the habit of swapping over the mags once I get to that side but I didn't think of that today. It's a little annoying when walking around but not that bad. It keeps things completely out to the sides. I might get some thinner shoulder straps as the padding is unnecessary right now.
I'm pretty much entirely unaware of the actually nitty-gritty details of armor design and materials, and of all of /k/ I assume this is the best place to ask where starting material for this would be? I'm quite fond of personal armor - honestly, moreso than I am guns - and I want to actually become knowledgeable on this topic.
>>65543134>I want to actually become knowledgeable on this>be careful what you wish for You rub that lamp too hard and the armor genie wall of text eye chart will appear.
>>65543233I've been summoned, check em.>>65543134>I'm pretty much entirely unaware of the actually nitty-gritty details of armor design and materialsSo it's actually not that complex. There are numerous infographics in the emporium in >>65529481. Gilliam Arms also has good 101 articles, but with the caveat they're designed to feed you into buying their plates.I'll give you the design rundown. Basically, a ceramic armor plate is a minimum of two components not counting the exterior cover. A ceramic strike face that goes up front, which breaks up and deforms penetrators. However, in order to actually "catch" what's left, you need the second component - a backer. Thicker strike face for stronger penetrators. Thicker backer for higher energy / higher multi-hit.The backer can be fiberglass, aramid, or polyethylene. Fiberglass is heaviest, cheapest, and thinnest, but the least efficient. Aramid is middle of the pack. Polyethylene, and there are grades of all materials, is generally the best backer material in terms of performance-to-weight. However, it winds up being the thickest. Standalone plates have enough backer to catch projectiles completely on their own, and within the stated backface deformation limit. For NIJ, that's 44mm. Other standards are usually lower except for US Military, which can go up to 58mm with newer VTP plates.The strike face is usually one of three ceramics. Aluminum Oxide, which is cheapest but the heaviest, Silicon Carbide, which is middle of the pack in all respects but does the best vs tungsten penetrators, and Boron Carbide, which is very expensive, the lightest mainstream option, and sucks vs tungsten penetrators.You only need a backer and a strike face adhered together to make a ceramic plate. GOOD plates however incorporate additional components. A crack arrestor to enable better multi-hit. A trauma pad on the back to reduce BFD. Drop foam on the front so the plate can eat drops as per 0101.06 or 0101.07 standards.
>>65543289Just say what to buy, wordy little shit.
>>65543134As an additional subject area, pic related is an example of two comparable "ceramic tile array" plates. Normally, in modern years, ceramics are a single piece strike face. This is called a monolithic. However, other plates are tile arrays where the strike face is separated into (usually 2x2") square tiles or sometimes hexagons. This massively enhances multi-hit because ceramic cracking cannot spread between separated tiles. However, because there are obviously edges between each tile, the tiles need to be beefed up so the edge area can stop the threats too. This causes a weight penalty and also, usually, precludes the plates from being multi-curve.The Gilliam 8002 on the left is a very stout 8.5lb 1.25" thick 10.3x12.3" silicon carbide-PE IV++ rated for 7.62x51mm M993 and Swiss P AP tungsten core. The FORT Technologies ACP-G on the right is another Silicon Carbide-PE plate officially rated for 7.62x54R B-32 API and 5.56x45mm tungsten M995, with unofficial testing indicating it's actually good for 7.62x51mm M993 too. It is 7.7lb for a 10x13" and is thinner. Note that it has no known performance against 7.62x51mm Swiss P AP, which is superior to M993. The 8002 is standalone and has enough backer to handle Swiss P AP by itself. The ACP-G is ICW specific soft armor (and a "CAP" trauma pad for best performance, being that it's Russian) and will not work by itself, so as a rule of thumb add a pound to account for soft.There is also a FORT ACP-M which is 9lb flat for a 10x13" and is rated for 7.62x54R 7N37, which is far more potent than what the 8002 can handle.Rule of thumb, the smaller each tile, the more edge area and thus greater weight penalty AND greater multi-hit, assuming each hit only hits one tile. You get one shot per affected tile. Monolithics vary based on the strength of the crack arrestor.
>>65543400One step ahead of you. See the quick armor guide. >>65529481.
>4 eye charts later...JUST SPEND MY MONEY!
>>65543427What do you wanna stop and what's your budget?
>>65543134And as a final point, the bottom of this older infographic is what happens when you run a monolithic Level IV ceramic with a piss poor crack arrestor. 8.3lb RMA 1155, Aluminum Oxide + Fiberglass backer, lost to two 7.62x51mm FMJ at 100 meters. This is less than one third of the Level III test. Pathetic for this weight.This is actually common to many bottom dollar Level IV plates. The old 1155 was under $200/set on sale. Level IV only requires a single strike of .30-06 M2AP. That's it. Level IV plates are not required to pass the III test, which is 6x 7.62x51mm M80 @ 51mm minimum spacing, ~2,780ft/s.Ergo IVs can nix the crack arrestor and thin the backer to save a lotta money. This is why ceramic IIIs are more expensive than IVs. You can buy plates rated for both III and IV, but they wind up being thicker, heavier, or more costly versus IV equivalents. Compare Protech 2014MC at 7.7lb / 1" thick with a fiberglass backer to III+IV Protech 2230 at 7.5lb / 1.2" thick with an aramid backer. The 2230's backer is much stronger and it otherwise uses higher quality materials.Takeaway, be cautious when buying IVs and make sure you have some multi-hit. Nobody wants a heavy ass plate that can be double-tapped. III+IVs are really preferable unless weight budget is tight. To jump from IV to III/IV is usually about a pound.
>>65543436I just don't want to die, bro.
>>65543469Well the armor you can wear in the field is better than the armor you leave at home because it's too heavy.Obviously you can nix the 8002, that's just an example of a de facto "Level V" plate meant for extreme situations. I think it was actually a custom commission because some security company traveled here from the Gecko45 universe and needed extreme protection. Yes, it can probably do .338 Lapua FMJ fine given it handles .416 Remington Magnum persuasively in that one guy's test vid.CONUS is generally still an "RF2" environment. 7.62x51mm M80, 5.56 M193, 5.56 M855. Consider a pair of Hesco 3612s for a reliable 4lb mid-range solution.
>>65543483>Consider a pair of Hesco 3612sThx, could have saved me eye strain with that answer 2836 words ago.
>>65543508Well I was more replying to >>65543134. He wanted armor knowledge. You just wanted a quick dead nuts recommendation.If you're brave, Gilliam's 6001 is much cheaper than the 3612 and mostly does the same thing, but lacks NIJ certification and uses Chinese materials. I dunno if those are dealbreakers for you. Different people have different risk tolerances.
Armor anonPill me on groin protectors and throat protectors/tactical gorgetsIIIA is all I reasonably expect from them and hopefully knife/stab resistance too
>>65543289>So it's actually not that complex. TWhat I want to know is the complex stuff - IE what it's made out of and how and the like. I don't intend to buy a plate or anything at this time. Do you have any proper papers or materials on these subjects? I'm considering going in for a materials science degree, if that help explains some of my desires for what I'm looking for here.I do appreciate the explanation and the textwall, but it was not quite what I was looking for - to reiterate, I'm interested in information on the more technical/material side of things.
Anyone know of any decent IRR shirts/pants
>>65543567>Pill me on groin protectors and throat protectors/tactical gorgetsWell there are many different kinds of groin protectors. Some are really so small they only provide abdominal, others do all the way down to the hips, others like the Jinwudun IIIA skirt provide nearly 360 degree femoral. Neck protectors also come in different sizes. You can buy cheap Protech groins / necks on ebay. Also some UK HOSDB-rated stuff with stab.The trick is that all this stuff is governed by the catch-all standard, NIJ 0108.01, and not the body armor standards NIJ 0101.06 / .07. This means things like max BFD and even specific threats are a crapshoot. This also means no compliant product list, so nothing is "certified."The same goes for blade/stab protection under NIJ 0115.00. Again, these items aren't body armor so they are not under that standard either.The end result is that you need to go by brand reputation. Stick with the cop shops like Point Blank, Safariland / Protech, United Shield, and military stuff and you'll be fine for ballistic threats. Chinese stuff is a bit of a gamble, but it's not hard to just do PE panels right. For stab weapons, only surefire guarantee is hard armor or old school mail, because NIJ 0115.00 does in some cases permit penetration up to a certain depth (because your chest organs are in deep enough it shouldn't matter... emphasis on shouldn't) and you really don't wanna play games on your neck. Euro law enforcement uses chainmail for a reason.The best place to get cheap extremity armor in general is used policesurp. Then the Chinese as mid tier. Primo stuff is current Safariland, Point Blank, etc. Ukrainian / Russian stuff is mixed because both sides often use Chinese materials. Keep in mind distinctions between ballistic, frag, and stab/blade ratings and between NIJ, HOSDB, and DSTU (Ukraine) / GOST (Russia) standards when buying international.There is an infograph in the emporium with options.
*any decent IRR shirts/pants that wont rape me financially as a poorniggerLike what are the minimum acceptable brands?
>>65543721Well there's plenty on sciencedirect and other sites. I like reading patents sometimes on new ceramics. If you want technical starter articles then Adept has good stuff here:https://www.ade.pt/adept-armor-blog-list/Again, with the caveat they're trying to sell you their stuff. The reason why this might seem sparse is that armor manufacturers do not really want you to know the works. End of the day, every manufacturer does it a little differently, but they all source common materials from the same guys. This means an upstart can do what they do quite easily, and an educated consumer knows to work in areal density and can immediately see tricks from guys like Highcom and RMA from a mile. Ceramic from Bitossi, CoorsTek, St. Gobain, either hot pressed, sintered, or reaction bonded, and then said ceramic is adhered to a pressed or autoclaved PE backer. PE from Honeywell or Dyneema, in various grades. Ceramic in various grades. Aluminum Oxide can come 85% pure all the way up to 99.7% which is generally good but still worse than decent SiC. SiC is in many grades, now often also doped with additives like TiB2. That's your modern ceramic-PE plate. A crack arrestor either goes between the two, steel for example with Ceradyne IMP/ACT, aluminum alloy for some modern ESAPIs, or titanium with select plates from Ukraine, or it goes in front. A carbon fiber layer is common with some Gilliam plates. The adhesive bonding the ceramic and backer is very important and often proprietary. Gilliam uses an "armorfilm" for example which is fairly good.Here's one good article from Adept that discusses Alumina coloration due to chemistry differences as a starter.https://bodyarmornews.com/coloration-in-aluminum-oxide-ceramics-and-does-the-color-of-alumina-ceramics-affect-their-ballistic-performance/Otherwise, I do like the Adept / Gilliam articles in armor design.
>>65543567Here's also the infographic pulled from the Emporium on the matter. It's a bit old and doesn't cover recent police surp options. For example, I have one of these, which uses the soft armor panel in the second link:https://www.ebay.com/itm/407095257321https://www.ebay.com/itm/357795199082It's Safariland and measures 16x14", so the coverage is very good.Otherwise rifle options are available from guys like Sabado or DMGear in China. Fit an 8x10 or 10x12 rifle plate of your choice. Available on Aliexpress or Taobao. Tac Scorp sells molle to velcro converters for attachment.
The South Africa trip still sounds like a good idea. I’m debating on hoping on a (legal) steroid or SARM cycle or whatever to get myself in condition faster. I probably won’t, however. I’m going to shoot an email later tonight or Monday morning and see what they say
>>65543889Forgive me if this is a dumb ask, since this isn't my department, won't a steroid cycle just F up your cardio?
>>65543915I have to trick myself into doing cardio so idkReally I got married and with all the drama from my now ex wife I couldn’t go to the gym. The goal is more so doing a cycle to get back whatever was lost and dropping body fat. I’ve miraculously not lost a lot of muscle mass; it’s mostly just put on a bunch of body fat
>>65544003Just saying, if you're in full kit but fatigue easily then the bad doods will have the initiative on you.
Breaking news, Chris Costa the famed instructor endorsed... steel body armor plates?https://steelops.com/shop/ols/products/costa-ludus-armis>After testing Steel Ops armor himself, Chris Costa of Costa Ludus basically demanded we create a custom plate built to his specs. Through trial and error this plate is the result of that collaboration.>6lbs, 8.75x11.5" URBAN CUT>All of our armor is special threat rated (+) to stop both M193 and M855 at 3100fps. Chris Costa slinging hugely undersized plates that aren't rated for M193 at NIJ RF1 spec and are still 6lb. Da fuq.
Looking at surplus Avon C50's that are around $150-200 which before buying filters is basically the most I'm willing to spend on something I'll probably never use but want to have for preparedness as a poorfag.Asked seller about manufacture dates and was told 2010-2013. They look lightly used. I heard expiration dates of 10/20 years but are those strict expiration dates? Like is it just shit the manufacturer says for liability or do the materials actually degrade enough to be unusable? I am admittedly not well versed on this topic so any help appreciated : )Also if there are better options in my price range feel free to let me know
>>65544034You’re right. My plan is to get a treadmill so I can do my video games infront of that. The way I’ve worked around some of my cardio issues is having a bunch of sugar and water floating around
>>65543854NTA but this has me interested. So that insert is just a soft body armor insert thats been cut down to size? Does cutting it not cause any issues performance wise?
>>65544174I ran my best mile (6:02) after drinking half a bottle of mtn dew. I dunno but it works. I really gotta work on that myself.>>65544198No, it's cut specifically for the groin protector from the OEM, no different than originally manufactured soft armor panels, just a different shape. Fits like a glove. Actual cut up soft armor panels are available from Armor Dog at >>65540474. Expired PACA, First Choice, etc panels. Lot of that shit is OLD and I dunno if he's screening for Zylon.Easy check. Gold is aramid. White is polyethylene. Dark gold is zylon. >Does cutting it not cause any issues performance wise?If the work is done in a non-sterile environment / it's half ass or water can seep through the redone edges, then yeah, it can cause issues. Many of these panels are going to be pre-0101.06 and that means they weren't strictly condition tested. NIJ pre-2008 was a shitshow. Still kinda is.Armor Dog is probably only in business because cops / security guards aren't buying that shit (insurance would drop their asses so damn fast) and it's actually very rare for regular dudes to be wearing armor and then shot in said armor. For example, RMA is one of the biggest names in joe public-oriented armor and I can count three saves.
>>65529491MSA billionium a bestu
>>65544588Steven Seagal couldn't afford the side plate to protect his penis from enemy sex snipers.Entire bloodline at risk.>>65544140It's all about storage conditions with most things. Lawyers.
>>65543750>>65543742>wont rape me financiallyBuy used/milsurp>minimum acceptable brandsIf you're alright with buying Chinese, Emersongear and Pew Tactical make G3 uniforms that perform relatively well and are NIR compliant. Another good brand is UR tactical based out of Hong Kong.
i go buy milsup one time i find jizz in pantsgo buy china you get new product. no jizz. just love. Love you long time. Like Holosun give hop and brass fact nuru massage all day long rub to revirw new iris 4 good. hfxc is more better
>>65544772>Holosun give hop and brass fact nuru massage all day long rubThis shit gonna make muh dick penetrate level iv
>>65529455Can I get a guide to gas masks and filters?I've had a look at the infographic but it doesn't provide that much actual information.Mainly I'm looking for info on where the various threats we might face in a shtf scenario fit into the listed protective ratings.Like, the infographic says the CBRNCF50 rated a2b2e2k1p3 provides full-spectrums protection against nerve agents, blood agents etc but which component of that rating fits into what? Which threats are organic vapours and covered by the a, which are acid gases and covered by B, etc.Also, to any anons with gas masks, why?What threats are you preparing for? In what scenario do you expect to use them?I've got a couple of industrial full-face respirators with abek2p3 filters for use in case there's major fire or some sort of industrial accident in the area but honestly, I bought them on a whim and never really looked into them.
>>65544990They used to be much, MUCH cheaper than industrial respirators or even a good pack of N95s. A cheap but brand-new Israeli mask with an equally cheap NATO-spec tear gas filter (about $15-20 back in the day) was considered good enough if the riots got close and you needed to ward off a bit of CS that wafted inside. Plus it was far, far better than what you needed to handle a bit of coof, and as a side effect sold out very quickly during COVID.
https://www.amazon.com/Six-Military-30-Ammo-Cans/dp/B007VE36N6$47.53 for a 6-pack of grade 2, .30 cal cans? What's the catch?
>>65544990Gas masks and construction respirators both cover similar occupational hazards but a gas mask is generally made to a more stringent standard. For vapors and other hazards it's generally a tradeoff about how much charcoal/carbon you want in the filter cuz that shit gets heavy.For dealing with dust you might use a 3M 6502Ql with a 7093c filter. Generally you want a P100 NIOSH rating which means it meets filters 99.97% of 0.3 micron sized particles in a lab test (they test against 0.3 micron because it is one of the hardest sizes of particulate for a filter to deal with, see image.) 7093c has a small amount of charcoal for filtering hazards.Now if you buy the 60923 filters instead they're 5x heavier but come with a lot more charcoal so you have a rating for filtering out a bunch of vapors, see the spec sheet.https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1687482O/select-the-right-cartridges-and-filters-reusable-respirators-english.pdfim telling you this before i go to gas masks because you're never gonna use a gas mask irl lmao might as well larp as a construction guy instead>Like, the infographic says the CBRNCF50 rated a2b2e2k1p3 provides full-spectrums protection against nerve agents, blood agents etc but which component of that rating fits into what? The letter salad is the European standard. P3 for particulates is 99.95% instead and if you really cared you can look up the other codes on Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mask#Modern_filter_classificationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_cartridge#European_Union_and_RussiaBut in general try to look up the spec sheet for any filters you want to buy, the manufacturer usually has specs for occupational hazards.https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2262/5147/files/NBC-77-SOF-Brochure-Compressed-WF.pdf?v=1608490537and if all fails>literally just pick filters based on how heavy they are, the one with more charcoal is better
>>65545083That doesn't really answer what anon is asking.Also>>literally just pick filters based on how heavy they are, the one with more charcoal is betterThe difference is a lot more than just the amount of carbon, otherwise you wouldn't be able to buy single agent filters. For compounds other than organic vapors its a lot more about chemisorption onto chemically treated media.
>>65543799Thanks, I appreciate it. Hopefully it'll be a good starter.
>>65546041No problem. As said before, most armor companies do NOT want you to know the works. If everyone knows, for example, that the weight floor for a legitimate B4C-PE Level IV is 4.5lb 10x12 or 4.7lb SAPI M, then the 1" 4.4lb cheat ringed shitters from Premier and RMA never would have seen the light of day and International Police Supply never would have been able to sucker people on those Defender 275s.If you do get that material science degree and do enter the industry, please do everyone a solid and figure out a way to economically sell an AlMgB14-TiB2 faced plate. Novel ceramics like that and B6O are the only way to truly move things forward.>>65545083>>65545947This is excellent info, mind if I update the infographic with it?
Decided to go a different direction so I'm selling my old armor set. Should I sell together or part it out? How much should I list it all for?>Crye JPC 2.0, multicam size M>AVS M4 flap, multicam>Hoplite 26605 level IV plates>WTF Hydro Zip-On Panel, multicam
>>65547035Together as an all-in-one kit. Take the new value of all components and then cut off 20% to get fair market.If you part it out you'll be sitting on those plates for a while. The 26605s have the rather special distinction of having been suspended by the NIJ twice and are single strike versus BZ API, which is poor considering the Hesco 4403 does three.
>>65547062>The 26605s have the rather special distinction of having been suspended by the NIJ twice and are single strike versus BZ API, which is poor considering the Hesco 4403 does three.Wonderful. Thanks. I went III+ and size L for additional coverage.
>>65547075Yeah Apex, Midwest, and Hoplite took advantage of the reddit "HESCO FUCKING SUCKS MAN!!!!" fad and offloaded the deficient 26605 on people. It's not a bad plate but it's basically an 0101.04-era mid-2000s LTC with added drop protection, explaining the lack of multi hit and double suspension for FIT failures. It was reinstated prior to being discontinued.Rule of thumb, LTC doesn't actually care about civilian sales and half asses their civilian lineup accordingly. They only actually try for mil/LE contract plates.
>>65547090$800 for everything seem fair?
>>65547217Well the plates were about $625 a set, so yeah, people will see that as more than fair.What III+'s did you go with?
>>65547232Cool, thanks listed the set for $800 shipped. Its on arfcom and akfiles if anyone wants it. Hesco 3811 with 3110 6"x6" side plates.
>>65547244>3811Damn, bro went almost all out. Very nice!If only the SC3812 wasn't credential-blocked to shit...
>>65547261I'm very happy with them. Its my home defense kit. I've done a couple shooting competitions in them and they are super lightweight and comfy.I know they can get fucked by M855A1 but its not a realistic threat yet. Seems like the most likely ballistic threats I would potentially encounter are 9mm, M855 and possibly .308. 7.62x39 seems even less likely after all of the sanctions.
>>65547286It's all about the protection-to-weight ratio. You aren't getting an A1 rated plate at 3.4lb 10x12 unless you find some credentials and crank the budget to $4k (A truly top shelf Tencate plate could probably get there), or concede in some other area. Both the 4.15lb SAPI M VelSys PBZSA and 3.8lb SAPI M Hesco SC3812 are down on multi hit versus lesser threats.Your plate does six M80 at 2", the SC3812 adds A1 but is down to three M80 at 2" (stronger strike face, weaker backer), and the PBZSA is good for one, maybe two if the spacing is generous at 3-4". The PBZSA is the usual rec for your bracket but it does suffer from being a twelve year old model, no drop pro, and an overall lack of backer, since it's only 0.52" thick. It's meant for less than overt OCONUS USSOCOM stuff. The 3811 is much more CONUS oriented. Overall, great buy. Good job.
Threadly reminder to not sleep on shields. Bro has a United Shield Kent for about $450 shipped. Actually really nice. It's IIIA and 22x32. 10.4lb.https://www.ebay.com/itm/227150018033?Other models available used from Botach Surplus with much fairer shipping. New stuff from Jinwudun and Militech.
best budget level 4 plate? Not looking to spend more than $300 per yes I am a poorfag
Any recommendations for discrete body armor? Obviously it's not going to stop rifle rounds but I need something for the streets under a leather jacket/button down shirt etc.. comfort is a plus of course..
>>65548144Crye LVS. If you do want to stop rifles, it can be done with PULV-family plates, ICW IIIA, and an appropriate carrier from VelSys, but will need to be bought second hand if you lack credentials. Also most versions cap out at 7.62x39 MSC.>>65547813Are you willing to entertain Chinese plates? If so the Gilliam 1635 is a strong contender at $380 a pair, 6.4lb 10x12, but it sold out and you'll need to wait. They have the single curve, high multi hit 1023 for $400 but it's not true 10x12. If you really want to go all out on protection, raise to the tungsten 7.62x51 rated 8002 for $628 a set. Otherwise, if you can still raise your budget a little then the 6lb Militech RF3 Black is $650 a pair with a tack on import ~$50 fee. It is lightly cheat ringed at 5mm on each side but is SiC, not Alumina, so it'll be higher performing than the 1635. Will not match 1023 on multi hit or 8002 against tungsten carbide rounds, but it's the best option roughly in your range on paper.If you can't do any Chinese and demand NIJ compliance, then default is Hesco 4403 at $420 a pair, but much heavier at 7.7lb 10x12. Dated fiberglass backer. Protech 2230s surplus are strongly preferable to the 4403 (lighter, 2x multi hit, trauma pad, better company rep and HUGE +600ft/s M2AP headroom advantage) but are hard to find.
I checked the infographic links, does any one have a old infographic on how to make home made cliff bars that got posted on /k/ for a while there?
>>65548538check desuarchive?
Best PC under 300? Probably plan to fun fairly slick with 4-6 mags, radio, and a TQ pouch.Looking at RF3 or so plates, M855A1 and M2AP max. Also looking at soft armor side panels- yes I understand that may be silly but at this time I'm not sure I want to dick with side plates, but elastic bund is I feel a bit pointless.
>>65549241Some used OptiPlex
>>65549241>pcJPC 2.0? Time tested boring solution.>Looking at RF3 or so plates, M855A1 and M2AP max. Militech RF3 Black Label or if you can swing it, Hesco 4601 ($900/pair on sale, 1k-1.1k normally). >Also looking at soft armor side panelsIf it's high threat then Omniprotex Ultra HG2+ is really good stuff. No good against rifles still, but will handle a variety of oddball high pistol threats.If you wanna save money then soft is hard to fuck up, you don't need to be brand picky if special threats aren't an issue.
>>65544757>EmersongearCan I get a qrd on the consensus with them? Do people here have hands on experience with them and if they do can you make yourself known?
>>65549261>>65549248Thanks, I basically listed the armor as what I intended to out in the carrier for consideration.I definitely want to get tubes or some other QD solution for the cummerbund, since I won't have elastic anymore.
>>65549486No prob. The Hesco 4601s are really solid plates but the Protech 2230-1 is definitely worth consideration as well since it's only 0.4lb heavier, just needs to be surped.
Hey guys, if you buy some $30 riot leg guards on ebay or Botach Surplus and then duct tape some expired 6x8 IIIAs for $20-30 a pop or less, you get IIIA leg armor for less than $100.
>>65549690Put that on my books when I'm serving in the penal battalion for refusing to get circumcised.
>>65549730Bro's foreskin is NIJ 0115.00 compliant
Botach also has the world's smallest "ballistic blanket" on their own surplus site. It's 11x14", same as an XL full cut.https://surplus.botach.com/battle-steel-level-iii-11-x-14-ballistic-blanket-panel-new-old-stock/You can cover your head with it.
>>65549313They're alright. The stitching is good, they use genuine multicam, they're comfortable and the sizing is accurate. Although they're pretty pricey now, I got mine for 130.
I don’t know what went on with gas masks but make sure yall fit test and do the banana compound. Do better birds!
>>65550001Thanks, sounds good enough for me. Do they hold up alright? The coyote ones I was looking at are only $85ish too.
>>65550060Birds gonna lose until philly trash sniper here finds some cheap plates or jacks Walgreens' power for a bitcoin miner
Hey who wants some shitstained, not waterproof Level IIA soft armor from 1985?https://www.ebay.com/itm/820174929721
>>65550257the added mildew layer bumps it up to II at least
>>65550860I'd say IIIA considering the dried cum strike face. Shit's ceramic by now cuhAlso a guy called Douglas Thompson is selling Level IIA (note, IIA, not IIIA) steel plates for $40 a pair. I dunno where he's going with this.https://www.ebay.com/itm/335642417620
I got a gunbelt from A&G leather a week ago [only took about 10 days from ordering]. It had some scarring and a small gouge past the buckle. I emailed them to basically ask for advice. He replied and has insisted on making me a new belt and that I keep the first belt for free as well. Getting one in mahogany this time. I tried to pay 50% of the cost but he wouldn't let me. Gonna try and buy one for my dad and recommend him when I can to anyone else. Only does 2x layer steerhide or horsehide + steerhide belts. I just wanna support A&G Leather as a good company.
>>65552014That's pretty based man. A guy last week got plates from Chase Tactical, underpacked in a messed up box, and they basically told him to fuck off because he didn't pay shipping insurance.Sounds like companies could LEARN from A&G.
Breaking news. The Highcom 4S20M has returned to this random website's store!https://tacticaldefenseandsecurity.com/products/multicurve_small_arms_protective_insert_m_0e98c4b4
I'm gonna reach out to Highcom to see if they can give any hard specs on the 3S22M (Hesco 3811 competitor), 4S20M (4800 competitor) or 4S21M (???). What's known is that the 4S20M and 3S22M plates are north of $2k a set. Adept gave out technical info and a test report on the Hesco 4800-challenging, $3k a set Emperor months in advance so I fail to see why Highcom won't at least talk basic shop about mostly lower end plates.The release date for all three plates is supposed to be end of year. The 4S21M isn't showing anywhere, however, which tells me it might be a credential-blocked turbo high end plate in the $3-4k/pair bracket, which is ballsy for Highcom. It could just be a cheaper 4601-esque plate too, or maybe it meets special requirements.
>>65544588Based Millenium enjoyer. A year ago I figured I’d finally get the voice amplifier and was like holy shit when did they from $50 to $300?? As a CBRNEfag I also had a Scott.
>>65550060Phillie Ghillie. Apparently there's a blowout on Safelife FRAS side panels, two 5x7s for $100.https://www.ebay.com/itm/227546444928FRAS is pretty mediocre flexible rifle armor, and Safelife's rep is poor, but $50 a piece ain't bad for 7.62x39 MSC / M855 standalone protection. I'm slightly concerned why a lot of people are offloading these. Curious if something happened and they are doing the old ditch and switch. Bro has two sets and already sold six, and he's not the only guy selling.
>>65552672Nevermind, fuck, that was quick.
>>65552641panoramic visor is far superior to eye lenses, peripheral vision is way better
>>65552672>>65552697Much appreciated on the heads up even if I was too slow to capitalize on. Looks to be eBay season. Need to get some fake watches and revisit suitable base garments for next ghilly. It’s just about corn season, which means I can get free husks from the grocery store. You don’t even have to ask for them. You just fill a garbage bag with the husks.
>>65553789Based huskmaxxing.>Need to get some fake watcheswhat>Much appreciated on the heads up even if I was too slow to capitalize onYeah those sold at Highcom 4SAS4 speed. Eight pairs in a day. You gotta be really on the ball to land these ebay deals.As said before, there's no free lunch. Seller was offloading these at 66% discount, and they're in warranty, so something might be off.
Armor "deal" time. Botach has six Hesco 4800LVs for sale, warranties freshly expired as of two months ago, $1200 a plate. Going off the label, this is the standalone "stops M2AP but goes over 44mm BFD" version at 4.7lb / 0.67" thick version. There is a different ICW IIIA version as well.If you want to less-than-overt quasi Level IV then this is basically the only play absent super baller $5k/set plates like SAECs or that 4.3lb M993 stopper SOCOM is fucking around with, just be aware the 4800LV cannot be dropped, probably was dropped at some point, and isn't "full" IV.https://botach.com/hesco-4800lv-shooter-cut-multi-curve-plate-10x12-never-issued/
Major update from GILLIAM. They have decided that they will NO LONGER be sourcing ANY materials from CHINA. In other words, basically their entire existing lineup is getting taken out behind the shed and shot.They will be transitioning to a full NIJ-certified, smaller lineup which focuses more on higher-end higher-performance products in 2027. I'm mixed on this decision. Prices will dramatically increase if Chinese "white meat" polyethylene is off the table and they're using Honeywell or Dyneema like everybody else. In fact, it begs the question of what Gilliam will be able to offer over Hesco, Highcom, Point Blank, Protech, etc if they're going to be using the same not-Chinese materials and thus level out on the same playing field. Better adhesive?
