The ONLY parts affected by FFS are highlighted in green. FFS does not change the brain case (neither its shape nor its size). FFS does not change the eye chambers, the facial surface. Hell, FFS doesn't even change the jaw. "Jaw reduction" is a misnomer because FFS ONLY changes the chin and the gonial angles (both highlighted in green). FFS CANNOT change the ramus or the body of the mandible. When you explain these things, stupid ass autistic trannies reply, "Hurr durr, phrenology phrenology phrenology. Only a 4chan autistic phrenologist notices these things." No, you stupid, shit-eating dumb fuck. People notice these things immediately even though they aren't able to articulate them or label them. These differences are obvious to the naked eye. Even young children notice when a face is male or female. There were posts of this lady who went to Deschamps-Braly and after her FFS, young children would yell, "Mom, why is that guy dressed like a woman?" People always talk shit about SRS as the most horrible thing, but recreating a realistic vagina is much easier than recreating a female face. FFS doesn't work.
>>40885452yeah ffs doesn't change expanded facial planes, surprise surprise
>he doesn't know about double jaw surgery>he doesn't know about orbital surgery
skullchan is hereeveryone post their skulls so she can r8 u
Colored in orange, things that FFS does NOT change
>>40885486>>40885486you are demented. Orbital surgery doesn't bring the eye sockets closer together. Double-jaw surgery doesn't change the overall size of the skull
>>40885473you do know that people keep denying the existence of facial planes, right? You do know that or not?
>>40885552the average difference in circumference between male and female skulls is like 2cm
We missed you skullchan.
>>40885561and? Absolutely pointless. The differences between male and female skulls are not about the circumference. God, you are so stupid. And you do know how much 2 cm is cumulatively?
>>408855612 cm is HUGE cumulatively because we're talking about volumes we are not talking about lines. So 2 cm is A LOT. In addition to that, head circumference doesn't capture how expanded the face is, how protruded the maxilla is or how prominent the mandible is. FFS is a scam.
>>40885604do you believe passing is a myth?Also, can someone post their goddamn skull so she can dissect it.
>>40885452Okay but what if these are the worst parts of my face? "FFS only effects the worst parts!" like okay yeah? That's a good argument for having it.
>>408856042cm circumference is a very small amount. Even 2cm in width would be barely noticeable without directly comparing heads.
Is nobody gonna post their skull?
>>40885624passing is extremely difficult. It is not impossible, but it's very, very, very, very difficult. Also, some people pass at quick glance but not upon closer inspection
>>40885783Are there people who pass upon closer inspection?
>>40885736I never said not to have it. Have it, just understand that your face won't pass. You BELIEVE those are the worst parts of your face, but they are not. Trannies are not reliable reporters.
>>40885895seems unfalsifiable
>>40885833yes, there are, but they are EXTREMELY rare. Like very, very, very rare. But they do exist, and they upset cis people because cis people want to be able to tell. That being said, trannies believe they pass when they don't. So many trannies believe they are stealth when they are not
this is expertly crafted ywnbaw bait. jokes on you, i don't give a fuck and people think i'm a woman anyway (trans or not). so who cares
>>40885914I have enough experience. I have been around people. Even cis people are blind to their own flaws. Many cis people believe they look younger than they actually do or they are blind to their wrinkles. Trannies have this problem to a much higher extent.
>>40885931are there cis people who can't pass?
>>40885920not at all, it's the opposite, because the point is not being a real woman, the point is LOOKING like a woman to the naked eye, something that trannies cannot achieve.
>>40885937>85there are many many ugly women who MIGHT look trans in photos, but when you see them in real life and you interact with them, you can just tell they are women. Masculine, ugly, but women nonetheless.
>>40885945that sounds like a (You) problem. you don't have to make a big spergfest on here about it. it is seriously subjective at the end of the day, if you wanna larp as a scientist go ahead but people just wanna be happy
>>40885915>yes, there arehow do you know they exist?
>>40886047I have met them in real life in a professional setting and they came out as trans and I had no idea. They are very rare, though.
>>40886163yeah but you are trans and so you are likely autistic yourselfand you WANT to believe in this concept of passing cuz it justifies what you have done to your own body
>>40886035it is not subjective at all, no matter what you want to believe
Testosterone is some wild shit
>>40886183if someone is 99% a woman and someone is able to look past that 1% to see a woman does that make them wrong? i've experienced time and time again that tipping scale overrides whatever biological instinct you've been hinting at. once again back to my point that this is just ywnbaw bait. yes, biological sex and "gender" are completely different phenomenon, not everyone is a monkey that wants to point it out at the slightest hint. who cares if someone is not 100%, that's why subjectivity matters
remember when skullchan tried to burn down dr. douglas osterhout's house (the house that was used for mrs. doubtfire's exteriors) because she was mad her ffs was botched?
>>40886249>who cares if someone is not 100%i care because if i can't be perfect then why bother
sounds like a >>40886259 problem lol.....
>>40886258yes, it's all over the internet. Skullchan tried to burn down Ousterhout's house. Yep.
>>40886454https://sf.curbed.com/2015/1/6/10005318/at-mrs-doubtfire-house-police-doubt-fire-was-accidental
>>40886249I would agree with you completely if people were to pass 99%. Hell, even 90% would be enough. Even passing to the point where people can tell but are not 100% certain. That would be a victory. The problem is that trannies don't reach that point, ever. Being clocked is much more complicated than you think, or maybe I should say, much simpler. It's both complex and simple. When someone clocks you, they flip immediately. It's a black-and-white situation. Let's suppose you pass, once they have clocked you or they have been told you are trans, all they will see and hear is a man. They will completely reinterpret every single trait of your physicality. They don't even do it maliciously. So I agree with you. If someone were 99% a woman, even 90%, that would be a victory. However, the situation you are describing does not exist in real life.
>>40886454The police are now investigating whether or not the crime has anything to do with the profession of the home's current owner, Dr. Douglas K. Ousterhout, a plastic surgeon who operates on transgender patients. Dr. Osterhout said that he was having problems with a former patient, but no arrests have been made.>>40886476a lot of "passing trannies" ive seen irl just look really uncanny and by passing I mean they don't look like men, but they don't look like women either - they just look in between and inhuman and surgically alteredffs never looks good irl
>>40886502ffs is insufficient. It very rarely works. You're fucked if you do, and you're fucked if you don't. I'm not suggesting to forego FFS and keep a manly face; but FFS is not what is cracked up to be
>>40887241Did you set fire to Dr. Osterhout's house?
yeah the point of transition and ffs isnt to turn you into an identical copy of a cis woman? didnt you know that? its to treat gender dysphoria, your mental illness
>>40885452all human proportions are bimodal and most have quite significant overlap even archeologists admit that definitively sexing a skeleton is quite hard, most go unidentified and mistakes are insanely commonmen and women aren't different speciescis women will often have proportions that skew to towards the male end of the spectrum and visa versa i pass without ffs and even my surgeon agrees i'm only really getting it done for aesthetic reasons, i don't need it this is giga retarded
>>40887447>gender dysphoria>mental illnesswords that mean NOTHING
>>40887447>yeah the point of transition and ffs isnt to turn you into an identical copy of a cis woman>its to treat gender dysphoriayou realize that the only way to neutralize dysphoria would be by becoming a copy of cis women right you fucking retard>>40887466cope
Budget skullchan
>>40887699no normal people accept that they have to make compromises and recognise that ffs improves dysphoria even though its not perfect
>>40887726normies are loser retardsif you're not a perfectionist you're ngmiyup you SHOULD be miserable all the time
>>40887723I want to watch a tv show that's just skullchan rating trans womens' skulls irl
>>40887826They could have a team of assistants dressed in skeleton costumes called the skull patrol that interview trannies on the street
>>40887826>>40887935Pitch it to E! Or something. Would watch the shit out of it, botched is already a guilty pleasure of mine.
>>40887935No, it has to be in a big auditorium and skullchan has a velvet throne that rotates 360 and at the beginning the throne spins around and a spotlight shines on her to introduce her and the guests sit in a panel around her - facing her - and their chairs spin 360 too so she can examine them at e v e r y a n g l eI guess they could be plucked off the street by the skull patrol street team
>>40885945>the point is LOOKING like a woman to the naked eye, something that trannies cannot achieve.why are you guys so delusional about this? i've had full dates that end in me blowing them only for them make some transphobic comment and me realize they haven't clocked me. Men and women have huge overlap for most skeletal and otherwise phenotypic metrics that as a tranny are fairly easy to overcome if you're starting from a plausible base and decently beautysmart
>>40885452ffs does change ares on the midface, hairline though and as well as stuff with orbitals and fat redistribution. ffs is not a “skull feminization surgery” it is “facial feminization surgery” lolthis is like saying “rhinoplasty doesnt work because it only changes your nose” like yeah man you get the rhinoplasty to only change your nose the same way you get facial feminization surgery to feminize your face
>>40887995>only for them make some transphobic commentyou realize that they're saying it BECAUSE they clocked you righ
>>40888004errr no i don't think so, I said something like "wow you're really not a fan of them huh?" and he said "Well i just really like REAL women" and kinda pinched me. The other time i've done that he literally got violent after i told him. Most people are not channites, the metrics the average cis person uses for clocking is great for surged out hyperfem dolls and midshit twinkhons but mid for youngshit normmieaxxers
>>40888039kys
>>40888049you first babydawl, let's do it on skype
>>40887995maybe they made a transphobic comment to fuck with you knowing you won't defend yourself
>>40888039this is the fundamental problem with transgenderism - it rests on a sexual fantasy that you are having sex with a man who wouldn't be ok having sex with men and isn't aware you are male and trannies don't acknowledge dl bi/gay men exist
>>40888083>it rests on a sexual fantasy that you are having sex with a man who wouldn't be ok having sex with mennta but to be fair i heavily prefer bi men
>>40888073ha yeah maybe, maybe he's cousins with JD Vance too. it was clear from the context and we hung out for hours afterwards, his comment implied he would have hit me if he knew.>>40888083You're so far removed from this and it's so obvious. I've fucked trade, bi men, gays, fucking whatever, usually i tell them, i only don't if i think it would be unsafe to do so. The guy i've been hooking up with is well aware and just doesn't care since i'm post op now, YOU refuse to acknowledge that happy and healthy trannies exist kek. Most of us are doing A-OK, the only time i ever really think much about this aspect of my life is literally on this forum
>>40888131srs is glorified surgical castration
>>40888151sure whatever. Isaiah 56:3-5 who cares retard
>>40888151It is literally surgical castration too lol
>>40885452op is truth
>>40888431but u are a lateshit, ffs is minor cosmetic surgery for passoids
>>40888457what?
>>40888431what the fuck does this even meanis this referring to midface length??
>>40888471>doesnt know
>>40888471it's skeezorp/gogunga retard
>>40885452I bet yer female relatives are all cishons lololol
>>40887466this is stupid, because there might be some overlap on a single trait or on two traits, but there is never overlap on the totality of traits. You're just a coping fag. You don't pass without FFS. People are lying to you.
>>40887699Even without being identical, it would be great to look 100% passable to the naked eye, with the clothes on. It would be a good compromise. Trannies rely on contrived, improbable hairstyles.
>>40887935you guys are trying to be edgy and funny, but the concept is incredibly simple. There are many areas of your face that signal the fact that you're XY. FFS only addresses maybe 10% of those areas.
>>40887982I like the velvet throne part. I don't like the part about "every angle." You make it sound like people have to actually force you to rotate to see your manly face. What you autistic fags don't understand is that these perceptions are unintentional. It's not like people have to go around with a caliper
>>40889650none of this really makes sense because the lived experience of a huge number of transsexuals is that the vast majority of people they interact with seemingly have no idea
>>40887995enough with this faggotty bullshit about overlaps. Men and women might have overlaps in a couple of areas but not in the totality of things. Take a man and a woman who have the same height. Heck, they even have the same shoe size, but the feet are just shaped differently. Just because a man and a woman might have the same head circumference, it doesn't mean they will have the same eye spacing, the same braincase, the same protrusion of the maxilla, the same mandibular height. How can you guys be so stupid? Assuming you didn't date chasers, those people who dated you had something called "suspension of disbelief." It was in their best interest to believe you were a woman.
>>40889691>lived experience of a huge number of delulus
>>40888001you are demented. FFS doesn't change the midface length or width or how the features are arranged and spaced out. Pulling the hairline down doesn't do shit. It only scratches the surface. Your comparison with rhinoplasty is equally stupid.
>>40889708>>40889736>speaks like this>calls other people delulu
>>40889701This whole narrative ignores the material reality of youngshits anon. We're highly modified and we nearly outnumber oldshits at this point>>40889708This is often true, although i find that usually trans women are actually delusional in the opposite direction once they're more than half a decade or so on hrt. The change is noticable, men who used to shout slurs at you begin opening doors and saying "after you miss"
>>40888004exactly! People do it on purpose. They will make fun of trannies to lead you to believe they have not clocked you. It's just a way to mindfuck you
my gf is a youngshit and cissoids do not believe her when she says she's trans or male on paperI'm a neverpasser and trannies act confused when I attend meetups (thinking I'm a cismoid)Idk if I should even try to fix the damage with FFS
>>40888039 he was fucking with you. They do that. 5 minutes later, they are on their knees sucking your cock, slurping, gagging, swallowing.
>>40889762why would a guy go through with getting his dick sucked by a tranny because he finds her disgusting and wants to make fun of her in a very passive and indirect fashion
Ooga booga
>>40889691I believe that some people pass at the store, or if they quickly walk by a crowd. I 100% believe that. However, in sustained face-to-face interactions, the brain picks up on things, unless you are 90 years old and blind.
>>40889744no, tons of youngshits don't pass. Kim Petras doesn't pass. There is another one who looks like a masculine monstrosity and he is a conservative grifter. I don't know if his name is Kelley. Has a short name, blondish hair, and is a younghon.
>>40889777I used to work too girl, I know exactly what you're referring to and this wasn't that. I had already sucked his dick and he was straight about it the entire time, it wasn't even really a joke, he just made a transphobic comment about trans athletes and then talked about how it was disgusting and shouldn't be forced on children.>>40889802agree with this, but for many transsexuals this is all you need. it's just insane to say that NOBODY surpasses that, there's trans women out there with husbands and beautiful stepchildren who all have no idea
>>40889744what do you mean by delusional in the opposite direction?
>>40889779 because he wanted your cock
>>40889783you proved my fucking point. They changed the chin, not the expansion of the maxilla. Jesus fucking christ the retards here
>>40889825I've met a girl who said something off the cuff assuming everyone knew and watched her come out accidentally to like 5 people. I knew, but i'm also an extremely wormed tranny. We'd been studying regularly with her for like 2 weeks.>>40889838i don't have a cock and that one 1000% knew it based on the outfit i was wearing
>>40889814ok, so then let's assume that you passed TO HIM, it doesn't mean that you pass to everybody under all circumstances. People can catch you from the wrong angle and have the imprinting that you're male. Men who date us LOVE to believe we are women, even in the face of signs that indicate the opposite. Imagine you found a penthouse in Manhattan. The last thing you wanna believe is that it's a scam.
>>40889810>kim petras doesn't passniggaand i am supposed to take you seriously?
>>40885452its FACIAL feminization surgery. It's not skull/cranial vault feminization surgery. Also the highlighted parts are a majority of your face and dont include the more drastic surgeries you can get done. Not everyone has big teeth like that too. bitch ass.
>>40889856what a hon
>>40889845One looks male one looks female stop projecting your retardation on to me
>>40885452I'm going to Dr keojampamine will turn out good because he starting with a good canvas
>>40889856he doesn't except in staged glamor photos>>40889867see this is what I meanin CANDID photos he's clearly maleyou have to do all this trickery with lights, angles, and makeup to make him look not male notice he's sideways so it minimizes how broad his body is
>>40885452You're wrong about some of this, orbital rims can be surgically altered (though eye feminization is more about soft tissues anyway) and chin and gonial surgery goes a long way in approaching cisf norms, as these are specifically the most dimorphic areas.
>>40891359which surgeries alter the cranial vault?
>>40891413Don't know why you're asking me to elaborate on something I never claimed.
>>40891432my point is you are skipping a very dimorphic region that clocks ALL trans women if you can see it clearly its always weird to see post-ffs trannies and the lower skull has been shaved down but you cannot change the overall length of the skull nor the distance from brow bone (yes I know that can be shaved but even still) to occipital ridge (rear upper prominence). the volume in the upper skull of a tranny is something a woman wouldn't have and gives it away>but there's women with huge cranial vaultsno there are not
>>40885452ffs works if you have been on hrt for a while and have a mostly androgynous face but a couple of very male features that push you over the edge, like a pronounced browbone or a bulbous roman nose, which ffs can change. but i agree, if you got gigafucked by puberty and your facial planes are very expanded and you're built like a horse with an actual gigachad jaw, you could spend millions of dollars and it wouldn't save you. but that is fairly rare, most people aren't dimorphic to THAT extent.
>>40891479>ffs worksWRONG
is there an FFS procedure that fixes a gigachad jaw
>>40891563have you seen the jaws of post-ffs trannies?they can only shave off some of it so you end up with a narrow, smooth, but still long jaw so it looks uncanny as fuck
>>40891578it's over I guessI've been on HRT for years but never malefailed so that pretty much sums up my situation
>>40891546Have you considered maybe you are just a gigahon and other people are prettier than you?
>>40889783god i need that so much why did i have to be born poor
>>40891976have you ever considered that you are delusional and don't accurately perceive yourself or others?>>40891609If everyone called you she but felt inside that you were male and felt slightly uncomfortable having to lie, would you prefer that?
>>40892050no
*I* went to Deschamps-Braly. FFS worked like magic for me.
>>40889854>I've met a girl who said something off the cuff assuming everyone knew and watched her come out accidentally to like 5 peoplewhat did she say?
>>40892167Same, though I made the choice mostly because he looks like Johnny Depp and is really hot not his skill.
>>40885452>This is why FFS doesn't workI've seen enough people with good FFS results to not really give enough of a shit to read on.If makes cute transgirls even cuter it is worth every penny desu.
>>40889867looks like a female mid chav
>>40892023This is quentin qassemyars work. brow, hairline + v-line ran me 12k euro. If u can't save 12k euro just hero atp
>>40885452>FFS does not change the brain case (neither its shape nor its size).sorry chud but this has been deboonked.there is a procedure called skull resurfacing which can reduce the overall circumference of the cranium by 10%. It can possibly be reduced 15% for people with extremely thick craniums.
>>40892476mfw born in developing shithole where that is my entire salary for 1.5 years
>>40893893Does this work on the cranial vault?
woooo skullchanwhat a blast from the past!how are you, skullchan?
>>40891341this is a pic of her mid concert. that is definitionally candid, she is literally mid-action>>40892416i don't remember verbatim but it was about how she needed to pick up her hormones, i think she used the term "t-blocker"
>>40885452how is SRS better when its literally just a fucking dick pocket with no actual function compared to a true female
>>40894583this is delusional, aside from infertility mine works completely fine. Every guy i've been with since said he wouldn't be able to tell the difference if he didn't know
>>40894720kys
>>40894749seethe moar, i'm dying at 80 surrounded by grandkids
>>40894760cope larp
>>40894779i'll post a thread from the hospital, stay tuned in 2085
>>40894760you just live forever like me. i want to create some planets and stuff
>>40893917it’s called aesthetic skull reshaping.to handle top heavy heads excess bone is removed, reshaped and then reattached. bone burring/shaving can be used to decrease the thickness of 1st and 2nd layer of the skull. it’s expensive though
>>40895770hmm expensive for now. soon ai surgeons will bed abound
>>40889854they assume we have a COCK. They can't imagine a tranny having srs
>>40891359you are wrong. The cannot alter the eye sockets, you are stupid. Unless you have hypertelorism
>>40891477exactly, you explained it very well. And you don't even have to look for it, you just see some weird angularities or edges and, poof, you clock. The cranial vault never lies.
>>40896711i'm saying that because of my outfit, he knew it would be impossible that i have a penis
>>40893893no, that's bullshit, that is promoted by that quack Dr Eppley. That is not how things work, buddy. The cranial vault bone is actually very thin and burring the bone into the diploic space will not change the cranial capacity. Imagine you had a big carton box and you were to shave the carton to make it thinner. The carton would still look huge. You are too demented and retarded. Unless they offer complete cranial remodeling, FFS is a scam.
>>40893995trying to fill up my space and time somehow
>>40896779you still have an internal penis that a woman wouldn't have
>>40894583you are a filthy fag of a tranny chaser. Recreating a facsimile of a vagina from soft tissues, homologous tissues to be exact, is much easier than altering the skeleton. How can you be so fucking stupid? What is easier to change the cover of a sofa that is made of fabric or to change the wooden frame of a sofa? How can you be so dense?
>>40895770no, you stupid fuck, the problem is not that is expensive, the problem is that it doesn't address the real issue. It won't change the cranial capacity. And it will make your braincase thinner and more prone to injury. You have no fucking idea. The reason male heads are bigger and more angular is not because the bone is thicker but because there is more brain matter and the encasing of such brain matter has a different shape. Making the encasing thinner won't change shit and will leave you at risk of injury.
>>40896779their fantasy is to believe we have enormous cocks and we are tucking. Girl, stop being naive. Chasers always love to believe we will pull out a boa constrictor that we have diligently tucked
>>40896914i'm not being naive, i've fucked guys who definitely knew and played like they didn't, i've fucked guys who definitely do not know and become violent and disgusted when they find out. idk what your point is here, passing is impossible? if you're a tranny and not brickzilla you know this to be false
>>40886047I'm one of them.>>40885915>and they upset cis people because cis people want to be able to tellAnd that's how I know. People don't act shocked but they do instantly scan my body and face for whatever clues they missed. And then later they tell me they had no idea.Or if they're bigots they reliably decide I'm intersex.Also because when I tell medical providers they're liable to assume I'm FTM. And I guess not remotely trying.
>>40885452what a fucking fantastic coincidence that these are the only parts of my skull keeping me from looking female and yet i will absolutely never be able to afford ffs
>>40896959>the only parts of my skullbullshit
>>40885561A 21inch circumference is ~15% larger in volume than a 20 inch circumference skull which is easily noticeable. That’s why troons can pass in pictures (2d) but in real life (3d) they are gigaclockable
>>40896943>>40896950kys
>>40897719no, seethe chud virgin
>>40897799KYS
>>40897871ahhhahahahha it's just not happening champ. have fun failing at getting laid on the apps for the rest of your life
>>40885452This seems like a horrible SRSoid cope. FFS isn't flawless but it does help alleviate dysphoria.
>>40898127>FFS isn't flawlessthen it's useless
>>40898143Your mileage may vary. I think it was worth it and it changed my life.
>>40896844>>40896896it’s performed on adults living with craniosynostosis. the skull is broken into segments and reshaped. look it up.
>>40898272show photos of adults with cranial vault remodeling. There is only one case by Eric Marchac. Eric Marchac died in 2012
>>40897871No thanks
