I just finished reading the iliad and you motherfuckers were lying!!!They never had sex and were completely hetero bros!!!!Why can't men have close friendships?Are we not allowed to care about one another?Can we not chill with the homies over the hoe's?Why can't we just be friends!!!Why can't we be friends?Why can't we be friends?Why can't we be friends?Why can't we be friends?And yes, it would be accurate that the giga Chad WHITE man should top the brown sissy obedient squire.That makes total sense.But in this case they just seem to be bros and they fuck women.Not that people didn't fuck men then but at no point is this brought up.They grew up together as best friends, bestises to the end.Shame on you for lying.Give up your heterophobia.
>>40922584Lmao you read the illiad
>>40922666Yes I just finished it a few minutes ago.It was brutal and emotional and surprisingly tender at times.My favorite part was hector with his wife and the mourning of achilles for his comrade.Lots of other great moments all over the placem
https://shc.stanford.edu/arcade/interventions/brokeback-mount-olympus-being-gay-iliadthe extant iliad is presumably edited, and also homer’s iliad is only one in a whole oral tradition. early athenian writers were already fujoing
>>40922584>They never had sex and were completely hetero bros!!!!sometimes things are said in between the lines instead of expliciltly
>>40922825You are engaging in revisionism to satisfy your strange gooning needs.There is no reason why it would have been revised when we literally have alexander the great being gay with his lover among many other roman emperors.You're just a gay marxist trying to make everyone gay so you can feel better about yourself.It's okay.Be yourself.But don't rewrite history and the stories that matter to people.
>>40922834You are reading into something.You are afraid of platonic hetero affection between bros.Is shameful.Unlearn your bigotry.
>>40923097>alexander>other roman emperors?I don't think we can conclusively say whether Homer intended them to be lovers but some noteworthy people who were much closer in culture and temporality to Homer definitely thought that he did.
>>40923129Are you really not aware of Hadrian with his twink or Nero with sporus?I've seen no conclusive evidence of that , but feel free to share it.I'll just say it's not directly in the text anywhere although they do have a very close friendship that mattered probably more to them.The woman that they fucked.I just find it really frustrating people always have to introduce sexuality into love.
>>40923103I am not afraid of platonic attraction between bros (although I'm not sure it's correct to call this from of relationship hetro, even if both peopole involved are straight), I love many of my freinds in exactly this way. Reading into something is exactly how you find deeper truths, as long as you know the diffrence between reading something that isnt there into a text and reading something that is there.
>>40922788My favorite part is Zeus' ongoing dialogue with the pantheon, watching that shit go down. It feels like a 50s sitcom, every time Zeus talks to his wife he's threatening to smack her into another timezone and every time she talks to him she's scoffing and calling him a great big brute.
>>40923269I think you have engrained heterophobia because you've been conditioned by post modernist marxist.Straight people are people too They are human beings.And they deserve our respect.Ok???!!!
>>40923193And there's no reason to shun romantic love just because it makes you uncomfortable. It's art, the characters are made up, we'll never know what they were intended to be, Homer might not even have known. Saying they were gay isn't any more of a stretch than saying they weren't. They loved each other, that's all that was established, and we know being gay, while not considered an admirable trait, wasn't shunned in ancient Greece. So they could've been and they could not have been, not mentioning it just comes down to it not being relevant enough to the story to record. The book in general doesn't really pry into those details much.
>>40923432I found it funny when he said he would hang her by her hair in the sky and put metal weights add her feet to make her suffer for being such a downer bitch.Poseidon almost manned up and decided to fight Zeus, but he got talked out of it I think by iris.Meanwhile hades was just chilling below most of the time probably doing paperwork and or gooning to pictures of persephone
>>40923473The trojan war really happened and yes the gods were doing things in it.You are besmirching the good name of historical figures and you should be ashamed of yourself.Be careful or maybe Zeus will hurl a lightning bolt at you bitch.And if they were Achilles was obviously the top.Stop hating on historical figures nigger.
>>40923473How can they be gay if they were into women?
>>40923492Achilles was a bottom, Zeus knows it's true and he's too busy beating his wife and his meat to notice your pitiable beef.Historically suck these nuts by the bushel, another stick for your bundle, buttboy.>>40923497They kissed men and fucked women.
>>40923497Exactly they were simply of deep affection who would impregnate women while high fiving.Fucking liberals trying to make everything gay .
>>40923476It was my favorite part.Odyssey is pretty good too, and the other one... The one with Jason, Argonautica?Different vibe but still some solid mischief
>>40923524Achilles was a top stop lying you fucking JEW!!!!!It's always the jews besmurching the good name of a white hero.Also you say disciplining an uppity woman as if it's a bad thing.You will be the first one we come for on the day of the rope;)You will be made a twink and forced to wear roman themed sex outfits as you serve the bourgeoisie.Faggöt.They did not kiss only bro cuddle sometimes.Stop with your marxist subversion nigga.
>>40923540Well actually, I have to publish a book soon.So I can't go right into reading the odyssey.I really want to though, hoping to do so soon.
>>40922584Holy shit anon way to not read between the lines. The next thing you'll tell me is Dionysus and Apollo are straightIt's honestly hilarious that fascists have to tow the line on loving homoerotic materials but then have to hate anything not straight about them. >>40923497It's called being bisexual ancient people didnt totally understand it but it was fairly common back then
>>40923658I just saw a really close friendship and the agenda of the marxists at play.They want to divide heterosexuals from having solidarity.I don't know about their sexuality I haven't spoken to them. Maybe there are some stories about them being gay I don't know.You're assuming that I am a fascist or that I have any homophobia within me.I do not.Nationalism is open to everyone including the gays.Some bisexuality occurred between older men and younger men that they tutored however these two grew up side by side so it is not likely.You got owned libtard.
iliad > odyssey >>> aeneid i dont know any other greek or roman fiction...
>>40923778You Mean HISTORY BITCH.
they were on the trojan beach for 9 years, and Agamemnon took all the women for himself, what do you think happened
>>40923789The Homeric Epics didn’t happen idiotLol
>>40922584One thing you will come to understand about history and mythology is that queers are incessant about retconning it to establish transhistorical identity categories that simply do not exist. Much of what they say about the Greeks and Romans and other ancient civilizations are lies to promote ideology. And I say this as a queer materialist.
>>40923909If I have to believe, under penalty of imprisonment, stories about skin lampshades and rollers coasters into ovens, then I’m gonna have a little fun of my own.
>>40923686I assume you're a fascist because you keep calling everything Marxism and going on about nationalism. I'm sure in another thread you are going on about cultural Marxism or Jewish bolshevism (it's all the same)Library? I hate libshits If you want to divide the straights you do it along racial and class lines like all good little right wingers do, you don't need to divide people amongst sexuality which is also something the right does.Why don't you go back to pol with dates?
>>40923963You have a double digit IQ, nobody cares what you think
>>40923909I don't know how you can read the Bacchae a theban play and still assume people were all straight in classical Greece.Christians have never and will never shut the fuck up about classical med religions and culture because so much of Christianity is just that with Jesus tacked on like Easter and "christ"mas" aka Sol Invictus, Yule and the solstice
>>40923995You aren’t really addressing what I said, particularly your unprompted rant about Christianity. Reading queerness into ancient texts like The Bacchae is not the same thing as asserting transhistorical categories. You read them that way because they appear as that form to you, not because they existed as gay or straight, and the failure to distinguish between symbolic ambiguity, ritual inversion, or homoerotic social practices vs. modern identity categories is where queers start to adopt a colonizing epistemology. Dionysian gender inversion, Hermaphroditus, and Elagabalus are not evidence of a “trans people” having “always existed” as is popular to say. This isn’t history this is flattening it into a particular modern lens to advance an ideology.
>>40924042>>40924042No no no you can't see queer people back then don't trust your lying eyes. Clearly everyone was just straight and playing games. The reason im ranting about Christians is that you cunts take up all the space on the internet with your retarded opinions. The reason I rant about Christians is that you idiots can both try to steal Plato's work but then pretend he didn't mention Dionysus getting Hermes or Prometheus (depending on the variation) drunk leading them to slapping body and brain parts together to create queer people (intersex and LGBT)You can understand that modern concepts of sexuality and gender identity aren't the same as they were back then. You would have to be a grade A retard to think that there were not gay, intersex and trans people back then especially when we have the Hijra in India because Christianity didn't wipe out 3rd genders in Asia like it did everywhere else.You cunts will happily remove every queer from the history books and then tell us it's revisionism when we stop going off Christian propaganda that writes history backwards.
>>40924110Honestly you just seem like a hateful individual who's gone a little schizophrenic.Seek medical attention and therapy<3
>>40924110The Hindus didn’t need Christianity to restrict non-normative expression. Ayoni was banned and taboo for thousands of years, save for the realm of the gods (not unlike the Greeks) because the gods are not subjects to the same moral prescriptions as humans by virtue of being gods. Anyway, no, “gay” people and homosexuality as we understand it, transgender people, etc did not exist as we understand them. There are epistemological and ontological gaps so wide that you are not recognizing gay or trans people in history, you are asserting our modern perspective is the only relevant one in understanding the past - that the people of the past cannot be understood on their own terms. This is a colonizing, authoritarian mindset.
>>40924136>>40924136Nah I just hate Christians and it's completely logical, frankly I hate all AbrahamismSchizo? Yeah homie I'm clearly insane because I'm literate in basic history
>>40924227Once again anon accusing us of what you do, I already have my Plato example and anything else I say is just going to be reiterating what I already said.
>>40922584Im so glad this topic has popped up. Iv read a book on their relationship, and yes, they were gay. Beautifully gay... they loved each other.... ahhh... it was such a good book... in my heart they were truly gay for each other.... ahhhBecauze i believe this it must be true. Achilles rage was so great it scared the the gods because he was threatening the prediction of the fates, who are immutable in greek lore, thats JUST how gay achillies was for his boytoy.. his cute silly boytoy... ahhhh i love them both..
>>40924227Totes straight nothing to see hereThe wine god Dionysus encountered Prosymnus on his way to Hades to rescue his mother Semele. The shepherd offered to guide Dionysus to the entrance by rowing him to the middle of the lake. As a reward for his assistance, Prosymnus demanded to have intercourse with Dionysus, who was to assume the passive role. Dionysus took an oath to consummate the request upon coming back from Hades.[1]However, when Dionysus returned to earth by a different route, he found that Prosymnus had meanwhile died. Dionysus went to his tomb, wishing to keep his promise and "experiencing a desire to be penetrated".[1] He carved a piece of fig wood into the shape of a phallus and simulated sex with the shepherd. This, it is said, was given as an explanation of the presence of a fig-wood phallus among the secret objects revealed in the course of the Dionysian Mysteries.It's hilarious they ripped off Dionysus and Pan, and Prometheus because they couldn't come up with anything better for Jesus of Nazareth and "the devil"
>>40924227There were no epileptics in history, only individuals afflicted by the spirits.
>>40924488>Totes straight nothing to see hereNot even close to what was said.
They were definitely gay.Writing this without crying is hard:I mean.. Really difficult......"Dienerinnen sammeln die Asche ein und tragen sie zu der goldenen Urne, in der ich ruhe. Werde ich ihn spüren? Ich denke an die Schneeflocken, die uns am Pelion kühl auf die roten wangen gefallen sind."i hope my roommates dont hear me whining..
>>40924499This is actually a good point although you don’t realize it, because you actually can’t definitely diagnose someone with epilepsy based on distant accounts like this. Thank you for making my point.
>>40924488The myth of Dionysus and Prosymnus is a lesser-known, sexually explicit story recorded by the early Christian writer Clement of Alexandria, who was attempting to discredit paganism. It was literally prois anda made up to shit on pagans.You are completely Illiterate as the story is so far removed from ancient greece and their stories about their greek gods as humanly possible.This truly shows the foolishness of Reddit atheists.Never opened a damn book in their lives but saw some funny schizophrenic ramblings and went with it.
>homosexuality didn’t exist in history>also my Bronze Age book has a law specifically against itWhich is it
>>40924561This is not unlike all the politicized slander from the Roman historians like Dio being taken at face value, again by pop theory queers, who run with it as evidence of trans Roman emperors or Sporus being the first femboy. Genuinely stupid people.
>>40924562This is what happens when your midwit brain is flailing in trying to understand and critique something beyond its understanding. It’s actually really sad to watch. Read Foucault or something dude, idk what to tell you at this point. Youre just not getting it no matter how many times it’s explained to you
>>40924598not an argument
>>40924604Telling you that you haven’t constructed a contradiction because you don’t sufficiently understand what you’re critiquing is absolutely an argument.
>>40924612there's no argument here at allyour critique is of obscure academics ("queer theorists"), none of whom are present in the thread here, but for some reason you have projected their claims onto posters here
>>40924643You’re just way out of your depth and not educated enough to back up your convictions, sorry dude
>>40924686my only conviction is that at all times through history boys have got tingles in the pee pee for another boy and then acted upon it, regardless of whatever abstractions and defintions have been applied to iti haven't made any other claim at all
>>40924579There is some evidence for the tranny emperor however if it is true then that just makes the community look really bad:/Like you want your emperor to be a schizophrenic sato-masochist?Some of the stories I imagine are exaggerated but many of them genuinely are horrifying and believable.Sporus obviously had it forced on them so that's not fair.But like if you wanted good representation you should look at hadrian and the man he actually seemed to love.There was a mutual love there even if it would not be the same as we understand it today.
