>>41049668
risk of suicide

>>41050018
why does it make someone unhappy to not have their brain sex align with their body sex?
why must those match?

>>41050025
Why do depressed people have to try to become happy? Why can't they just stay unhappy?

>>41050137
well what made them depressed, were they always that way?

>>41050025
because the incongruence results in a form of torture called gender dysphoria

>>41050137
why can't trannies just change their brain sex instead of their body sex?

>>41050328
>because the incongruence
but why do they have to be congruent
why can't you just have a female brain and a male body?

>>41050401
it is not possible (yet?)
i support the idea of medical research into this question and i would like to see solutions within my lifetime. tbdesu five years ago i would have taken a pill or whatever to alter my brain rather than change my body. nowadays i wouldn't, because i'm already happy and don't wanna put the effort into detransitioning.

>>41049668
feeling dysphoria at this kind of brain/body mismatch is probably an evolved response to endocrine disruptors in the environment
if a man starts eating a bunch of an estrogenic herb and growing tits, he will have more kids if he feels distress about this, because growing tits is going to be correlated with declining fertility
trans people get this at superstimulus level because the bit telling us which sexual characteristics we're "supposed" to have is flipped so we feel it at all of our sexual development. natural selection doesn't fix this because it's a small group of selectively disfavored "mutants" (i'm using the term in a loose sense here, not saying it's necessarily genetic) who are already unlikely to reproduce because of the correlated changes in behavior

>>41050406
feels bad (dysphoria)

>>41050509
i really like this explanation nonny thanks
will have to read into this it makes a lot of sense

>>41050530
>muh feels
>repeats

>>41050544
do you ignore how you feel about things?

>>41050472
>it is not possible (yet?)
but changing your body sex somehow is?

>>41050548
I mean if the feelings aren't helping me I try to move on to a new feeling.

>>41049668
Why do you have to walk if you have legs? Just crawl everywhere its fine.

Youre retarded anon

File: IMG_3555.jpg (43 KB, 448x480)

43 KB JPG

>>41050574
some would argue yes (and they're probably more correct than me) but no, it's just easier to chage your body than, like, pith yourself or whatever IS currently possible with modern medicine. i look female enough to be happy with pretty much everything besides my penis, and everyone treats me as a woman. so i've pretty much solved the problem i was having.

>>41050574
people can change their phenotypic sex with surgeries and medicine to make their body align with traits associated with the opposite sex

>>41050597
that's not really how feelings work anon
it is generally difficult to just not feel the pain of a knife through your arm and we generally try to do something for that pain rather than just to move on

>>41050574
nta but there isn't some trait in our body that is "sex", sex refers to a variety of traits from zomes to hormone levels to secondary sexual characteristics to genitals, you can change most of it

>>41050611
>people can change their phenotypic sex
if you could you would be shoving those people in our faces as proof

>>41050628
you would ignore it or deflect anyway

>>41050628
are you going to presuppose you can always tell and find flaws with all the examples even when you can find the same stuff in cis women?

>>41050651
/thread

>>41050606
but you still weren't meant to be a woman so it's not really a solution

also, you haven't changed to be a woman. you're different from a cis

>>41050611
hardly, there's lots that isn't changed

>>41050626
not really. like a neovagina or fake tits aren't really vaginas or boobs

>>41050716
>fake tits
did you know know we grow them ourselves? tourist?
>neovagina
if you take a look at how genitalia in humans develops you can see it's actually pretty much the same flesh we're working with, so to say it's not "real" is just some arbitrary distinction, it's there

>>41050651
prove that I can't always tell, or that trans women have made any effort to prove, irl, that they are indistinguishable from women

>>41050752
>if you take a look at how genitalia in humans develops you can see it's actually pretty much the same flesh we're working with, so to say it's not "real" is just some arbitrary distinction, it's there
you wish. no way it's as sophisticated and as well made as a real vagina

>>41050716
>meant to be
we're not "meant to be" anything

>>41050774
how do you know? are you checking everybody you pass in the street? or are you assuming you're right every time?

>>41050777
what does that even mean "as well made as a real vagina"? is whether something is something dependant on how well it's made? is a crude chair not a chair? this is a weird argument it doesn't make sense

>>41050794
I only have to check people who look ambiguous, and that's like .1% of all normies
but yes, I try to make sure I am never tricked by a man in a dress, even a surgically altered one

>>41050803
>I only have to check people who look ambiguous
ok so you're making an assumption for everybody you think isn't "ambiguous" and for them you're checking... how?

>>41050716
>you still weren't meant to be a woman
appeal to nature
>you're different from a cis
not different enough for anyone to notice apparently ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ anyhow it doesn't much matter what your personal opinions on my situation are; what i wanted ultimately was not necessarily to be a woman but to be happy (re: my saying i would have taken a pill if i could have), and now i am happy :) if you are opposed to that idrk what to tell you lol

>>41050794
of course you are. if you're 'assigned' male at birth, you clearly have the dna of a male and are meant to function as a male. something went wrong somewhere

>what does that even mean "as well made as a real vagina"? is whether something is something dependant on how well it's made? is a crude chair not a chair? this is a weird argument it doesn't make sense
it means that it differs in some way from a natural woman's vagina. and yeah something intended as a chair can not be a chair if it's made really badly

>>41050820
brain algo o something

>>41050826
>appeal to nature
totally bro. like if a person was born without a brain and a total vegetable you'd be saying there's nothing wrong wtf is a nature

>not different enough for anyone to notice apparently ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ anyhow it doesn't much matter what your personal opinions on my situation are; what i wanted ultimately was not necessarily to be a woman but to be happy (re: my saying i would have taken a pill if i could have), and now i am happy :) if you are opposed to that idrk what to tell you lol
well i'd say transgenderism not the dysphoria so nothing's been solved

>>41050837
>meant to
no though lmao evolution doesn't do things with a purpose
>it means that it differs in some way from a natural woman's vagina
so?

>>41050876
a man would easily be able to tell you are a man too if the thousands of other cues didn't tell him from the look and feel of your fake pussy

>>41050864
you don't know what an appeal to nature is
we can dislike something but that doesn't mean it was somehow not 'meant to be'

>>41050884
plenty of reports of people not being able to tell the difference

>>41050864
>i'd say transgenderism not the dysphoria
i don't know how to parse this
anyways yeah obviously there's something wrong with someone born brainless; there's something wrong with me, too. i did what i could to solve the problem i was having; taking a pill to change my fucked-up brain is just as unnatural as transitioning lol. either are good solutions. arguably the former is better, but again, it is not yet possible.

>>41050876
>no though lmao evolution doesn't do things with a purpose
that's just a midwit take. you can't get away from the fact that certain things have a function. if your lungs are not taking in air properly you would say there is a problem because they are not fulfilling their function. it doesn't matter if evolution intended anything or not

>so?
if it doesn't matter, how do you say whether you have become a woman or not. why not just cut your dick in two and say behold i am woman now? that's obviously not what a natural woman has but according to you that doesn't matter

>>41050900
plenty of reports of christians claiming jesus will save them after death

>>41050907
>midwit take
you can't distinguish between objective and subjective, and you call other people midwits? I think you might be overestimating your own abilities

>how do you say whether you have become a woman or not
social construction, nobody is objectively part of any grouping

>>41050915
and I take them at their word that they believe that genuinely, your point?

>>41050025
It's frustrating
Imagine if every time you tried to use your cock it wasn't there

>>41050930
nothing is objective

>>41050944
we're presupposing logic here but yeah no, that's not true

>>41050942
they are lying to you and so are you
people lie when they feel others won't challenge them and it will benefit them to do so

>>41050943
or maybe social conditions caused you to feel that you having a penis was making you disliked by others
men are seen as predatory, you resent that, and blame yourself

>>41050885
it's normal to say something is bad because it's unnatural. if your heart valves function in an unnatural way we consider it bad

>>41050901
my point is that you feeling happy doesn't solve the issue of you thinking you're a woman, which you are not

>>41050930
you can't distinguish between biology and philosophy. evolution and whether things are intended isn't really useful here

>social construction, nobody is objectively part of any grouping
which has to have some defining features to say whether someone is a man or a woman, which have to be objective. they can't be subjective like a tranny saying hmmm i think i'm a woman even though everything points otherwise

>>41050962
>they're all just lying in a grand conspiracy
ok so you don't have any arguments

>>41050977
i mean yeah you are lying because if you told the truth it would make you look bad and you would seem an opportunist which is what you are

>>41050976
>it's normal to say something is bad because it's unnatural
what is unnatural? we don't live as humans have done for the vast majority of time humans have been around, does that means powered flight is bad?
we consider a heart valve failure bad subjectively because it kills us and we don't want to die, not because it's "unnatural", in fact I would consider it good if it happened to somebody about to kill a thousand innocent people for no reason.

>>41050976
>you can't distinguish between biology and philosophy. evolution and whether things are intended isn't really useful here
they're not intended, they're not meant to be, it is relevant, you made a fallacious argument, improve it or drop it, until then that fact refutes you, there is no way we are "meant to be" objectively.

>>41050984
ok you're just seething now hon, go cool down

>>41051028
im not a hon im a disbeliever in your castration cult

>>41051033
ok hon

>>41050976
>you feeling happy doesn't solve the issue of you thinking you're a woman
i see. i don't think i think i'm a woman in quite the way you think i think i'm a woman, though, and i will get to that. i would argue that my existence as a woman is validated and actually maybe entirely manifested in the minds of other people. my appearance evokes feminine pronouns and honorifics et cetera and people regard me as a woman, if not as female (as some mistakenly have). i don't go around telling people that or wearing a pin on my shirt that says "i'm a woman"; i'm a woman pretty much just because how the world works. what i was getting at earlier is that i do not feel like a woman at all. i'm not pretending to myself that i'm a woman. internally, i feel like nothing. i figure i would probably feel like a man if i had a brain that did what it was supposed to. but i don't feel like a woman, either. all i want is a female body, and now i have one, or as close a facsimile as i can manage, as a tranner, which is okay. being a woman for me is much more an interpellation than a personal identity, and it just happens, luckily, that i'm content with that :)
i know this is more of an interrogation than a real, two-way conversation but i do appreciate your being polite. it's a really nice change. thank you polanon, sincerely

>>41049668
normgroids have determined such and we have to follow their rules because we live in their world

>>41051064
castrating yourself doesn't make you a woman or a non-male

>>41051028
>we consider a heart valve failure bad subjectively because it kills us and we don't want to die
it kills us because it's not living up to its function. it kills us because it's not doing what a heart is 'supposed' to do

>they're not intended, they're not meant to be, it is relevant, you made a fallacious argument, improve it or drop it, until then that fact refutes you, there is no way we are "meant to be" objectively.
it is relevant. biology is relevant here, philosophy isn't. also, don't tell me what is relevant and not. groupings are all subjective according to you

>>41051114
you've been polite yourself, you're a good egg

>>41050820
hes larping
he never says what he actually "looks" for

>>41051599
proportions within male or female range, it's not one specific piece of the puzzle, it's seeing multiple pieces out of range
your brain has a built in sex clocking algorithm you just need to apply it visually in person and you can clock any troon
+ once you see some post ffs troons irl and know what to look for it becomes easier

>>41051743
say what they are, faggot
>i have a magical algorithm inside my brain that lets me clock 100120% of transgenders
>i have a magical man in my brain saying who is a reptile and who is not
how do these things differ?

>>41051945
are you srsly denying that humans can detect sex in others?

>>41051191
>it kills us because it's not living up to its function. it kills us because it's not doing what a heart is 'supposed' to do
no
it doesn't even kill us, it has no intention of doing anything, it's not sentient, failing just means it's not doing what we want
>it is relevant. biology is relevant here, philosophy isn't
you can't have linguistics without philosophy, we're grouping things, that's a philosophical perview, you are a brainlet
yes all groupings are subjective, you need a subject for them to exist
philosophy is upstream for pretty much all fields apart from maybe mathematics, so it's always relevant really, in the same way chemistry is always relevant to biology, and physics is always relevant to both

>>41052063
we don't detect sex we detect physiological traits that we use to put people into categories

>>41051184
yeah agreed that's not how it works in society right now :)

>implying that the majority on this board even have their "brain sex" mismatched in the first place

>>41052781

Damn when you see a baby come out of a person, you don't know if that parent is female or not.

>>41053068
we tend to sort people vulvas and wombs into the category of female, hope that helps

>>41050962
I want a penis retard that's why I know not having one is frustrating

>>41053415
why can't they just cut like a big section around a penis and a vulva and stitch them into the other person

>>41053597
humoring you, the basic answer is tissue rejection and preservation of nerves. rearranging your own material allows for sensation to be retained, wheras straight up grafting from other people would leave you pretty much insensate and also you would need to take like whatever that kind of medication is that prevents your body from making donor tissue rot away and fall off

>>41053977
Immunosuppressants

>>41053994
yes :) ty

>>41053977
well that's annoying
guess we have to go the whole stem cell growing stuff in tubes way?

>>41054030
maybe? i do not know what that means for nerves, though. tbdesu i do not know anything about stem-cell stuff...sorry lole

>>41054103
thank you for your help in this matter

File: IMG_3971.png (55 KB, 512x512)

55 KB PNG

>>41054113
you are welcome :) apropos of absolutely nothing and only because it is of personal interest to me, here is a video that appeared in my YouTube feed this morning describing a grammatical construction i enjoy and which you employed in your last post. i wasn't aware that we didn't have a concrete way of describing this until just today.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tfnANe2YUwM