sorry to kill a thread for this but i'm trying to get a better idea of what i look like: does my body look the same in these two pictures? taken literally four hours apart with nothing eaten or drank between. how come i look like left at work but i look like right when i'm naked? my shoulders even look way broader at home...it is possible that it is a trick of the mirror (my mirror at home is resting on the floor and angled slightly upwards unlike the perfectly vertical mirror at work) but i feel like i should look at least mostly the same. these don't even look like the same person to me. am i stupid? am i delusional? do i actually look terrible at work too?
>>41502245Nah girl, you look fine. It's the apron doing the magic, works like a corset and emphasises the curves.
>>41502302Retarded ass photo of me to prove point
>>41502302the apron is definitely cinched a bit but not so much that it even leaves a mark on my skin when i take it off...do you think tjat is still making the difference? i know the flaring at the bottom also makes my hips look a little wider but those look pretty much the same on both sides
>>41502327Are you doing the white supremacy symbol with your right hand?
also thank you for the picture. i meant to say
>>41502361yeah clothes are weird like that its optical illusions and shit
>>41502368Nah, it's a dumbass trend from when I was a kid
>>41502361>do you think tjat is still making the difference?Definitely polos are usually made out of lighter weight fabrics, so any pressure makes them conform to the person's body shape regardless.>the apron is definitely cinched a bit but not so much that it even leaves a mark on my skin when i take it off.That's completely normal, corsets are the easiest example to explain it (even though they're unhealthy, I know) but any straps, ties, belts etc that apply force usually have that effect, depending on how tight it is vs the fabric trying to relax and droop down (cause gravity).Also it's pretty normal to panic about stuff like this if you don't know much about it, so hope you feel calmer now <3
the pronounced core muscles give you a masculine illusion when naked. aprons naturally pronounce waists. imo the button up shirt isnt doing you favors. it makes your shoulders look broader than they are. you are cute though and i would hold you down and touch you type sh
>>41502327
>>41502520>any pressure makes them conform to the person's body shape regardlessshouldn't my body look like that, then? shouldn't it look like my body? that's what i'm confused about..>panicalso not panicking really just confused and a little insecure lol>>41502544>pronounced core muscles give you a masculine illusionhow to fix this i have been on hrt for five years and i don't exercise :(i would like to exercise anyways though...do you think building muscle would make me look weird then
>>41502547Can't wait for the dab to get ruined next or something. But yeah, the picture I took originally was meant for a bunch for friends so I could laugh at them because they wouldn't be able to punch me through a screen. Still annoying when people ruin stuff like that.
>>41502245drop your discord
>>41502245the apron make your nonexistent hips appear even smaller i'd ask to not have to wear itif you are in a Blue state they will concede to your wish if they push back tell them it triggers your dysphoria
>>41502751Was that the old "ball gaze" game kids used to play?Somebody would make that symbol and the first some to look at it got punched.
>>41502603you have to anamax like youve never done before and/or work out your lower body. if u do work out do it for gains not strength
>>41502245How long hrt?
>>41502245
>>41502603>shouldn't my body look like that, then?No, your body shape pretty much stays the same unless if the clothing is exerting more force than your body can resist (e.g: a corset, or a tourniquet).>shouldn't it look like my body?Not necessarily. It's like comparing a baggy hoodie > a t-shirt > a latex swimsuit. Different materials conform to the body differently and also have different thickness-es(?). For example, a winter coat will make you look big and blocky, whereas a dress would emphasise curves more.> just confused and a little insecure lolPerfectly valid to feel that way.>pronounced core muscles give you a masculine illusion>how to fixI'mma be honest, don't really have advice outside of the general idea that there's probably diets and exercises to help with that. Def something I'll look into more once I start HRT (whenever that is).>do you think building muscle would make me look weird thenDepends on what kind of exercises you do. Even without HRT, exercises that work on the leg and ass (lol) muscles result in a more feminine lower figure, whereas arm and core workouts result in a masculine upper figure. Definitely something to look into.
>>41502762sorry friend i am spoken for>>41502764are you trolling or is this a real thought lol? i feel like my hips appear way wider in the work photo even if it is an illusion>>41502782can't anamax bc work but i've been there and done that, anyhow. i will focus on my lower body o7>>41502921five years lel>>41502981thank you unironically for this although it makes me sad it's nice to have a numberthank you friends for responding here i will be back in a few hours..
>>41502768Yeah, if you got your finger through the hole, you punched the person making the circle.If you fail to put your finger in and take it out of the hole in time (i.e, you don't attempt it, or the person closes the circle with your finger inside), the person punches you instead
>>41503023a lot of people do multiple weight cycles. i mean exercises like squats, lunges (biggest lowk), hip thrusts etc.
>>41502764Gaslight for real. She looks fine.
>>41503023>thank you unironically for this although it makes me sad it's nice to have a numberNo probs. Having data means you're accurately informed. Being accurately informed means you can make an informed decision about what to do next, whether it's trying to shift the number, or reconsidering transition. I'm sorry your current number isn't favorable.
>>41503152Hey, is there a site you calculated on, or did you do it manually? I want to figure mine out as well
>>41502245You look fine in both pics.You are literally your own worst critic.
>>41503182I measured OP's ratio visually from the photo, so the value I arrived at might be wrong, but probably not by a huge amount.The website I used to get the male and female averages is https://grayoasis.com/ANSUR/ with the Ansur 2 dataset.
>>41503233Alright, thanks anon
>>41502984i guess i just don't understand how, if the clothes i'm wearing are in form with my body, they look different. maybe i'm not understanding something you're saying (qv sentence six of the op), but it seems like i ought to look flatter and more masculine in the left picture if my clothes are really conforming to the surface of my megood luck with your transition :)>>41503152i can't say i feel very strongly about detransitioning but it really puts things into perspective for me. makes me feel less bdd lole>>41503187thank you nonny :) i hope you mean that. i'm pretty much okay with how i look, though; i really just wanted to know if i'm crazy for thinking i look like an entirely different person in the two pictures. maybe i should have made the op more clear. sorry
>>41502368>doesnt know the circle game fuck i am getting old fast
>>41502245you have no hip fat, and the apron is faring beyond your hips. you need to gain gluteofemoral fat, which you can get from taking pio for a year or two.
>>41507373more questions re: op sentence six..would this really make a difference? if i stop taking pio the fat would go away, wouldn't it? also, is that the only way? i have heard pio has ungood health effects, not to mention i have a terrible anxiety of gaining weight, probably from anorexia, but also whenever i do gain weight nowadays it apparently does absolutely nothing but rectangularize my form, which seems like the opposite of what it should be doing and what others experience. i am talking about a difference of probably like ten pounds, maximum, though.so the questions, i guess, are>are is pio permanent>isn't pio dangerous>am i a dumbass for not just biting the bullet and gaining weight or are some people just built to fill out somehow more masculinely as they gain weight
>>41502245looks thesame to me
>>41507467>are is pio permanenton a long enough stretch of weight gain, it creates new fat cells in gluteo femoral regions, so "yes", as long as you have an E dominant hormonal system, your body has proportionally more fem places to fill its fat in after pio>isn't pio dangerouswell, it was designed as a diabetes drug and apart from the lipedema risk (you should be able to see if you're a responder to that), its risk profile is relatively mild. If you're someone that is very apple shaped, then the reduction in waistline unarguably overweighs the cons since there are a lot of comorbodities associated with having lots of visceral fat. The bone fracture risk is non-important unless you're doing extreme workouts>am i a dumbass for not just biting the bullet and gaining weight or are some people just built to fill out somehow more masculinely as they gain weightimo gaining fat and being in a caloric surplus is way underrated for feminization. Obviously if you're already obese or bordering that, you should maybe loose weight first. Idk what your height and weight is, but you don't look terribly overweight. I would swing down another 5kg and then start a good pio cycle, eating a lot + working out glutes.
>>41507637>apart from the lipedema risk (you should be able to see if you're a responder to that)How?
>>41502302>>41502327Did you just tell yourself you have good curves while acting like someone else?
>>41507637thank you for this nonny...like the other anon asked though how do you >see if you're a responder to lipedema? also had not considered i may just be one of those who fills out from the middle years ago i was way heavier though and looked not great but better than this. so maybe something is just wrong with me now. or maybe i need to gain more weight. idk i'll try pio>but you don't look terribly overweightouch though omg do i look that awful? my bmi is 20 i'm 170cm 60kg. i was hovering around 56kg for a while but i have gained a little weight recently. it just seems like none of it goes where it's supposed to anymore.
>>41503023>posting exhibitionist photos to 4trans while in a relationship Wild
>>41507703i'm sorry for how horrendously confusing the syntax is here i kept going through and editing things but neglected to proofreadyou can pretty much fix it by ending a sentence at >middle and beginning the next at >years, though>>41507704i'm not much to look at anyways LOL and i'm all censored besides
>>41507467>if i stop taking pio the fat would go away, wouldn't it?i genuinely dont know why you think this. the fat cells are permanent unless you kill them with fat cell killing treatments.>whenever i do gain weight nowadays it apparently does absolutely nothing but rectangularize my formbecause you have no gluteofermoral fat, because your pubertal fat distribution is male. pio is the only medication we know of that can reliably fix this.>are is pio permanentyes>isn't pio dangerousnot unless youre diabetic, in which case staying on it for years may put you at risk of certain issues. the tl;dr is that pio consumes stem cells and over years and years of doing it on already poor health it might cause some issues with your organs, which also need stem cells, but the studies on it show practically no risk for even diabetic patients up to the 2 year mark, so like, dont be diabetic, and dont take it continuously for several years.>am i a dumbass for not just biting the bullet and gaining weight or are some people just built to fill out somehow more masculinely as they gain weightno, gaining weight without pio as an MtF is retarded because you wont actually make anywhere near enough new fat cells for it to be noticeable next to your rapidly inflating male fat.
>>41507714I'm sure your boy/girl-friend finds you hot, just ask them what they think instead of random jealous schizophrenics
>>41507715very informative post thank youprobably should just start posting in hrtgen at this point but how much weight should i be gaining, anyways? does it matter? does the length of time i'm taking pio matter after i've gained the weight? or can i stop right after i've gained however much?>>41507735this is a really good point but i guess i just thought internet strangers here would be more honest or at least give me a broader range of thoughts to reflect on
>>41507657>How?you see if you gain waterweight or lipedema on your legs, specificially calves disproportionately. otherwise its quite hard to diagnose honestly
>>41507703>170cm 60kg.>but you don't look terribly overweightsry i meant in as, you don't look fat at all, so you have a good starting point. I think gaining weight would help you alot. I'm like 173cm @ 72kg and I think i would look like a stick at your weight, always have to remind myself im quite heavy actually
>>41507751>how much weight should i be gaining, anyways? does it matter? does the length of time i'm taking pio matter after i've gained the weight? or can i stop right after i've gained however much?For most women, 26bmi (obviously YMMV because everyone has different body comps) is most "healthy" imo in terms of fat. I think personally think you should go up to 75kg but preload pio maybe a month before that, not sure exactly if that does anything though desu. i think most healthy would be 1-3kg of fat gain per month, so that way, you stay a max 15 months on pio for the cycle. After that, you can see which weight looks the most comfortable on you and try to cycle down under that, and then gain back to the target weight with pio again. I would personally then stop using it at that point imo
>>41507780expanding, how much you should gain per month also depends on if you're someone that gets stretchs marks easily. Obviously gaining weight slowly is always preferable but you also don't want to stay on pio for too long so you kinda have to balance
>>41507674No? I'm literally not OP or related to them in any way. OP's white, been on HRT for 5 years. I'm literally brown, and I'm not on HRT (yet). If you're that schizo about me and OP being the same person, go through some older threads or something idk where I post photos of my brown ugly ass (you cray cray).>>41505117>i guess i just don't understand how, if the clothes i'm wearing are in form with my body, they look differentI basically explained how the clothing works vs your body, but you were right earlier when you said>yeah clothes are weird like that its optical illusions and shitDunno how to explain the clothing stuff better, which is fine. There's a tonne of tutorials on YT and stuff about how to dress for your body shape, emphasising curves or hiding them etc, that explain way better than I can ITT. Hope that helps <3
>>41502245You're wearing gigantic niggerstompers on the left, which make your feet look bigger, but apart from that you pass in both
fuick i wanna bend a flat bitch over and pound her ass
>>41507855Ew, she's talking about her build
>>41507761i see..well hopefully you are right :)>>41507780>>41507788thank you very much again for this...what's with the cycling-under-and-back-up-to-the-target-weight-with-pio thing, though? if i ever fluctuate from that weight off pio is it fucked up forever? that seems like a lot to think about in terms of a maintenance diet>>41507798yeah i don't know a thing about fashion...i'm trying to be more fashionable anyways going forward though so i am sure i will learn :) doesn't seem to have mattered much in my life so far but it would be nice to know
>>41507943>if i ever fluctuate from that weight off pio is it fucked up forever? that seems like a lot to think about in terms of a maintenance dietno you think way to complicated. It's>gain weight from pio upto 75kg>you can see as you gain weight which weight would be best to return to>as you loose for the second cycle, you want to undershoot the target weight so you can use pio as you gain towards it again.
>>41507979>can use pio as you gain towards it again.and then you just maintain that target weight. That second small pio cycle also just gives some extra curves
>>41507979>>41507984all of that assumes ofc that your target weight even IS under 75kg. You might just like it there, so you don't need to do anything other than maintain
>>41507979>>41507984>>41507992this is what i meant, though; i'm not sure i would be able to maintain a constant weight for the rest of my life, especially if it's fat (relatively speaking). it just seems unrealistic. though if i lost ten or fifteen pounds from where i am right now and cycled back up to it on pio, i probably could maintain that, mostly. i just intend to exercise a lot in the future and i have a very physically strenuous job, so i need to build muscle. maybe pio would be better for later in my life
>>41507943You need a clavicle reduction and adipose gain on your hips before you even worry about fashion desuAs several people mentioned before your lack of hips is the biggest drawback on you I mean you stated that you think the apron makes your hip ratio look more feminine but in that pic it just accentuates the breadth of your shouldersIt’s a long arduous journey
>>41508042>maybe pio would be better for later in my lifeyou severely misunderstand what pio does. The whole point of it is adding NEW fat cells to places that don't have a lot, so that WHENEVER you loose wheight or gain it back, its not in the rectangular shape that you don't like, but because of the relative higher number in feminine regions, results in a more curvy figure. Jesus christ, you overthink WAY to much. Take it now. You're relatively low bmi. Gain weight on it. You can stop then if you want. Weight cycle when old are not a good idea in my opinion because of the shitty skin laxity that might not bounce back.
Why on earth is anyone listening to Idiot who is not even on HRT yet.
>>41508057>in that pic it just accentuates the breadth of your shouldersyou are the second person to say this (or are the same anon posting again); are you serious? my shoulders seem to me way smaller relative to the rest of my body in the right photo anent the left. i don't get seeing them as broader due to the apron. in earnest i really would like to understand>>41508093i have ridden a rollercoaster of (mis)understandings throughout this thread it seemsi thought your saying to restart pio for a second cycle back up was because the fat would not deposit in the right places were i not on pio but i understand now it is just augmentative at that point (i think ??????)i guess if you'll suffer two more questions what is a good dosage and where to get iti tried ihp and hrtdotcafe but the former ostensibly did not have it and the latter is apparently gone. i haven't really bought stuff in a while have we moved on
>>41508191The answer is in your photo. Your skeletal system is masculine. Your shoulders are simply much wider than your hips. No amount of normal clothing will mask this, you would need to get a padded undergarment for your hips. You will need several surgeries to correct this and even then it may not make you pass.I will also address the elephant in the room: height. This is the one thing you cannot change.
>>41508097Anon, for most of this thread, I've literally been talking about the clothing OP has been wearing in the left pic, and why the clothing causes her to look different in the right pic. That's not even a HRT specific thing and clothing can do a lot for certain body types if you want to present femme or masc (with limits obvs) regardless of if you're on HRT or not if you know what you're doing.Exercises and dieting are aren't even HRT exclusive either and you can do them without HRT.If you think you can't prep your body or wardrobe for transition pre-HRT (and throughout your transition process when on HRT,) and believe that HRT does all the work, then you'll be disappointed with the results.TL:DR, if you think mtfs/ftms that don't have access to HRT have invalid opinions, then you might be losing out on opinions/perspectives that could help you in life too.Hope that helps anon and have a nice day :)
>>41508252>Your skeletal system is masculine. Your shoulders are simply much wider than your hips. Agreed, you can get surgery to reduce your clavicles (shoulder bones) to make them look more feminine.>You will need several surgeries to correct this and even then it may not make you pass.I'd argue that OP would pass more of than not (dunno how it is for them irl if they clocked or not). OP doesn't have a particularly large/boxy body and a lot of women fall out of the average too. Though it's up to OP if she wants to do something about it to improve passing chances.>I will also address the elephant in the room: height. This is the one thing you cannot change.Agreed. Height can make you clockier but thinking that it's over just because of that is a bad mindset.
>>41508392They do have an inverted triangle shape and yes they are boxy like a rectangle. Height is the biggest destroyer of passing. I mean if they don’t care about passing maybe transition is the thing for them to do.
>>41508252>>41508392>>41508414i'm sort of convinced this is trolling or dysphoria-baiting lol but for the record i am 5'7" which i am fine with and stealth. i'm not worried abt passing and i'm not rly interested in any surgeries besides srs and maybe top surgery. i'm just an idiot and idk what i look like
>>41508191>but i understand now it is just augmentative at that point (i think ??????)yes. You can drop to your target weight directly if you overshot in your own view, but undershooting is just so you can get that extra stuff in. >i guess if you'll suffer two more questions what is a good dosage and where to get itstandard dose is at least 15mg, some people say they got results from as low as 7.5mg, but I personally would take at least 15mg/day. If you're in europe, bulgarian online pharmacy stocks it (look on hrt.cafe for link), you can also get it via made-in-china in gram amounts, I can personally vouch for Hubei Vanz Pharm, ordered numerous times, always fast to central europe, NEVER a problem with customs and I tested the compounds (sporadically) on purity. A bit more iffy tho since you need to talk/write with them. Not sure which shippers would send to the US sadly
>>41502245looks male in both
>>41508436Nah, it's not bait, it's just mostly nit picking about specific things that are "on average" (sometimes not even on average, just things that are portrayed differently in media) differently between men and women, because people here try to pass as hard as possible (sometimes going to extremes too). For example, a lot of women have an adam's apple, it's not exclusive to women, and a lot of men don't have an adam's apple. It's just that people here use the average, and if you differ from that, you don't "pass". Also sidenote, transvestigators are dumb and stupid and they're just so icky and ughhh.Honestly it's why a lot of trans people get brainworms from this site and end up thinking that they'll have to body/girlmode for the rest of their lives, even though they'd pass just fine and could do better with some fashion sense/self care.But yeah TL:DR, imo you look fine, and a lot of it is just chronically online nit picking (food for thought, but don't let the dysphoria kick in because of it).
>>41508436>ask for opinion>gets opinion>head explodes in nuke level rageYou are 100% NOT stealth please tell me you don’t actually believe this. You are visibly transgender and that’s without even seeing your face or hairline.
>>41508457thank you again :)i am in the US but i'm sure i can figure it out. i really appreciate your patience>>41508574oh friend you are preaching to the choir. i'm sorry; i think the way i formatted that last post was weird. i hadn't meant to imply that you were also trolling. the intent was more that i was speaking to you about the anon but i see that was lost lol>>41508594i don't know if i really believe it myself desu but lived experience tells me that i'm stealth even if i think i'm a freakazoid lol.anyhow i don't mean to come off as upset. it's just that what i was being told was so far from sense that i couldn't parse it as anything besides trolling, which i do still think this is.
>>41508676You are not stealth, people are being polite or they don’t want to cause any disturbance. I mean you see people everyday that go “Oooh, ok” with their eyes when they see you. Never assume you have any insight into complete strangers mental processes, it will lead you to unsafe situations.To reiterate: you are visibly transgender and we haven’t seen your face or hairline.
