the best treatment for dysphoria is making gender roles less strict, and uplifting the social treatment and social inclusion of gender non conforming men and women

>>41692480
Glegle wouldn’t say that

>>41692491
glegle doesn’t think you need to ruin your body to be happy

>>41692480
low IQ conflation

they are not functionally similar or comparable in a meaningful way

Seek help, seek education.

>>41692516
transgenderism is a low iq conflation of the combination of crossdressing and chemical or surgical castration being equivalent to changing sex socially

>>41692516
why do we encourage ppl to ignore their intrusive thoughts for every condition except gender dysphoria hmmmm

>>41692532
because telling a schizophrenic that the ducks really are made of cocaine doesn't lead to better medical outcomes but transing a tranny does
if conversion or repping was effective we'd have data to prove it just like we have for schizos and anorexics and a billion other disorders

>>41692480
Not really, the only drawback of transition is social stigma from a fairly small segment of society and the other "treatment options" for gender dysphoria are far more harmful to the patient or are inefficient. With schizophrenia, antipsychotics work generally well, cause few and/or manageable side effects, and indulging the disorder is far more harmful for the patient both in personal and social terms.

>>41692587
>but transing a tranny does
debatable. And all the studies are funded by faggots so they’re likely biased

>>41692480
>the best treatment for schizophrenia is believing your hallucinations
that's actually true tho

>>41692587
tranny IS conversion therapy
the goal is to strip men of their sexual aggression and libido
what you are trying to do is socially harmful, and people have every reason to try to stop you

>>41692613
>And all the studies are funded by faggots so they’re likely biased
Absolutely not true by the way, the fact is that the vast body of work studying trans people is/was conducted by people that are varying levels of transphobic.

>>41692641
trvke

>>41692641
its pretty obvious from the troons here that troons are not any happier after taking hrt

>>41692500
>ruin your body
Clearly you should've met my body. If you had you wouldn't be saying that.
>>41692638
Which is of course why people volunteer to do it to themselves instead of having it offered unprompted by the medical system.
Like you have to go out of your way to ask to be trans'd.

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>>41692638
you are a retard

>>41692480
the best treatment for schizophrenia is helping you organize your thoughts to figure out which ones are based

>>41692613
>>41692638
if doctors are evil why do they treat schizos with meds but treat trannies with trooning why not also let the schizos stay crazy or the anorexics think they're fat or the bpd-ers keep splitting why would they ONLY let ONE crazy disease spread

>>41692669
I bet if you asked any troon here they'd say they're happier on hrt than not

>>41692736
Trooning is meds though are you even trying?

>>41692736
this exactly, why is there no other condition where people are encouraged to act on their intrusive thoughts

>>41692794
ever heard of homosexuality?

>>41692794
idk they treat autism by letting the autist indulge in their things

>>41692736
the meds don't really help schizos either, they just sedate them so others are less bothered by them, which is kinda the same thing hrt does - it makes weirdo men less aggressive so women are less bothered by them

>>41692736
actually schitzos should stay crazy and anorexics should think they’re fat and bpd ppl should split bc it make the world more interesting and lovely and the best music and art comes from these ppl and ur just a hater

>>41692854
I think a lot of "schizos" abuse drugs and alcohol and it fries their brain. Sort of like how "bipolar disorder" often goes with stimulant abuse.
But I think there really is no treatment until we know what's causing it.

>>41692873
i don’t believe in causes of mental illnesses or mental illnesses themselves i think ppl r just like that its just trauma and temperment

>>41692804
being a homo doesn’t ruin your life like trooning does

>>41692916
speak for yourself, trooning saved my life, thats why im still here funposting

>>41692916
lol being a homo means you're going to die a homeless drug addict with aids

>>41692910
i think there's something wrong with the wiring in schizos but I don't think the medications we have help and if they aren't self aware enough to know what's going on, there's not much you can do, I think drugs and alcohol may cause it in some cases, or at least make it worse
but I think most of "mental illness" is the ruling class attempting to enforce behavioral conformity and yes some of it is actual brain problems but the medications don't really help and the causes are not understood at all
>that its just trauma
I think stopping women from being allowed to psychologically abuse others would help reduce the rate of mental illness. People just let women scream and yell and be nasty because they are women. Women are allowed to be controlling and manipulative - they get a long leash.

>>41692930
that only happens if you’re a hypersexual promiscuous gay, that can happen to hypersexual straight people too. trannyism actually ruins your body with drugs no matter what

>>41692964
>trannyism actually ruins your body with drugs no matter what
not even you believe this gincel

>>41692942
you are an absolute retard wow

>>41692972
is gincel's real name ginger, there was a ginger hair mtf in discord servers that constantly hated herself and called trans women men and rapists

she was a depressed neet living with an abusive mother i believe

who is gincel

>>41692809
autism isn't beliving something, its thinking diffrently

>>41692972
Male bodies aren’t meant to run on estrogen and vice versa

>>41693044
it works tho, not like it kills u lmao

>>41693058
u don’t know that, there is no research on the long term effects

>>41693001
gincel is gay incel. He was also known as gayjew on reddit. He's actually bisexual.
he has a lot of specific positions like "transitioning is conversion therapy", and "the system forced gay people and autistic people to transition as a form of eugenics". He also claims that women are more homophobic than men, women oppress men, and society is a matriarchy. He makes a lot of contradictory claims in different threads, like "trannies are gay men forced to transition because of homophobia", but also "trannies can't have gayvoice and are always more masculine than gay men". There's just a ton of stupid stuff that he posts literally every day because he really hates trannies, he's also the source of most of the daily frog threads that usually just have one low-effort anti-tranny sentence. He's pretty deranged and has been spamming the board for years.

>>41693044
and trannies aren’t suppose to have male bodies lol that’s like the whole point

>>41693087
he sounds based

>>41693080
do you think estrogen was invented in 2005 or something?

>>41693080
hrt has beeen a thing since the 1920s

>>41693080
it doesn’t rlly matter tho plus that’s not even true.
ur just appealtoauthorityfagging

>>41693044
naturalistic fallacy and simply assuming that endocrine cellular mechanisms aren't well understood.

though I guess ignorance isn't exactly uncommon in transphobes.

>>41692758
you know what i mean
troon meds let the troon keep trooning schizo meds make the schizo stop schizoing
>>41692804
not a mental disorder unless you're a christcuck in which case blow my cock you circumcised faggot
>>41692822
schizo meds make the schizo stop having delusions trans meds make the trans go deeper they are literally the exact opposite
>>41692854
i think all of those things are bad i like my car not being broken into by homeless schizos most anorexics are annoying white women and bpd people splitting is annoying when all i'm trying to do is keep fucking them every wednesday YES HAILEY I'M TALKING ABOUT YOU I KNOW YOU STILL BROWSE THIS BOARD

>>41693216
>not a mental disorder unless you're a christcuck in which case blow my cock you circumcised faggot
it literally was for decades though, that's the point

>>41693124
>>41693136
the number of people who have taken it for a lifetime is incredibly small, especially since so many trannies die young

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According to statistics and leading medical bodies, transitioning as seen as one of the best solutions for somebody with gender dysphoria that hasn’t responded to other forms of treatment. I tried life as a guy. I tried getting with a girl in high school I did but I felt absolutely nothing. I tried losing a bunch of weight and getting fit. I tried over a dozen different antidepressants and a dozen different therapists. None of it helped me it just numbed me. Transitioning has helped me be more social, more outgoing, more confident in my body. It’s helped me have relationships. I currently have been given no reason to go try those other methods again. Because even my doctor who I’ve had since early in my transition even recognizes how much better I’m doing. My parents think I’m doing better than ever. My best friends say they haven’t seen me this happy and confident since they met me over 6 years ago.

But what’s your solution? What should I do differently? Obviously, you seem to know better than me and my family and doctors

>>41693227
actually there's plenty of old trannies in their 80s and 90s, and zero evidence that estrogen has secret magic long term effects in bodies with XY chromosomes rather than XX chromosomes
you aren't even purporting a mechanism for this.

>>41693087
Honestly I appreciate the lore drop

What is wrong with him HOW can you be a gay incel lol

Interesting stuff

>>41693222
we thought the sun revolved around the earth for centuries
there is no point

>>41693229
I’m not questioning transition as one kind of treatment I’m questioning that it’s the best or only treatment. Many trannies nowadays are trooning out before any genuine attempt at living as a man like you had

>>41693286
and that has to do with the medical community's perspective on mental disorders how?

>>41693227
We were giving women bottom surgery in 1920s and they lived until their 80s. That doesn’t seem like it’s a short life. Dora Richter had bottom surgery in 1922, died 70 years young?

>>41693305
OK, so what would you say would categorize as the best tree and how would we be able to determine which treatment is best?

Would it be like the lowest regret rate?

Would it be increased body integrity?

Or is all your advocating for mandatory therapy before transitioning?

>>41693329
that’s not a statically significant number. At this time It would be impossible to find a large cohort of trannies who have lived healthy lives on estrogen for over 5 decades

>>41693313
>the scientific community used to believe [insert dumb thing] 50 years ago so it must be true
>>the scientific community believed something even dumber 1000 years ago that we both know is incorrect
if they can be wrong once they can be wrong twice
if you want a better example then there's the fact that around the time we though faggotry was a mental disorder we also still thought lobotomies were an effective treatment for most any mental disorder that couldn't be medicated and we also thought that high dosage stimulants should be available over-the-counter even for teens

>>41693305
>many trannies nowadays
are still ostracized by their family and forced to repress. We literally have a daily /repgen/ here to prove that.

You questioning it is the fault of you not thoroughly researching the history of treating trans people, and the lengths medical doctors went to do everything else (conversion therapy, shock therapy, anti-depressants, anti-psychotics, etc) to get trannies to improve, and nothing worked EXCEPT transitioning. Idk why everyone whose cis wants to give their armchair medical take on a topic they’re woefully underprepared on, and against the current medical establishment. It’s just so asinine.

>>41693367
then why do you think it's unhealthy if you can't find a large enough cohort to prove that it's not?

>>41693216
“ermmm le hecking delusions!!!! bad!!! i am very smart and reasonable.”

kys literal moralfag u sound so boring. what if the schitzo and the bpd are having fun have u ever thought about that? maybeee ppl should just help other people that r struggling and try to listen to them and not be mean to them.

rs tho i have ana and bpd overlaps and i only recover bcs i have a reason to and i only relapse when i have a reason to. no ones like that just bcs they’re “le mentally ill hecking chemical imbalance”. it’s just ways ppl adapt when their situation is fucked and they have a certian temperment. being a trannys just how u are and the problems only arise when ur forced to be someone else

>>41693367
who liddorly gaf

>>41693388
actually stimulants should be available over the counter

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>>41693367
Let's entertain the notion that you have a genuine concern

You are willing to strip someone's personal autonomy, impose immense suffering, make them suicidal

Because you have a concern that MIGHT happen based on your "intuition" that we don't know what will happen

While they have absolutely nothing to do with you

You're just some dude, you're unrelated to trannies in any way

Are you genuinely the most stupid person who ever lived?

Yes or no.

>>41693367
I mean. We have had 40 year follow ups.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36149983/#:~:text=A%2040%2Dyear%20follow%2Dup%20study%20found%20that%20gender%2Daffirming,participate%20in%20the%20phone%20interview%20and%20survey

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3043071/#:~:text=Conclusion,reassignment%20should%20therefore%20be%20considered.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34481559/

Most of these point to the same things. Trans people are at a higher likelyhood of mental health issues before and after transitioning and care needs to be given throughout and not just a once and done. And how gender affirming care was good for gender dysphoria but not for curing depression or anxiety. Which I just fucking hate when people say hormones cures depression or anxiety. My brains still bipolar before and after hormones. Why would it be different for someone who is anxious?

None of our long term follow ups say gender affirming care was a mistake. Just that it needs to be improved and that care needs to be continually

>>41693407
>what if the schitzo and the bpd are having fun have u ever thought about that?
maybe i'd have fun raping them to death. ever thought of that?
not everyone gets to have their fun. sometimes your fun fucks with my peace.
>no ones like that just bcs they’re “le mentally ill hecking chemical imbalance”
literally EVERYTHING is hecking chemical imbalance
your brain is fucking chemicals if you're sad its because the chemicals are fucked if you're bpd its because the chemicals are fucked if you like raping people its because the chemicals are fucked
>actually stimulants should be available over the counter
i agree but only for me because i have a hecking chemical imbalance

>>41693411
Also they didn’t answer my questions about how we could determine which care is best. So they have either very little concern or none. And they seem stupid

>>41693388
lobotomies were always a fringe surgery that was not a mainstream treatment. There was always skepticism over the efficacy and complications, and was banned in most places within 2 decades of its invention.
Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder for nearly a century, including before the dsm It was listed in the dsm often associated with transsexuality and paraphilias. It was only voted to be removed in 1973.
Yet despite this, even freud when trying to "cure" homosexuality, found that it was too difficult and better not to bother. There is a long history since then of psychiatrists attempting to "cure" homosexuality only to discover that it was impossible, and no psychological, hormonal, or surgical treatment was able to do it.
The fact became that homosexuality was a medical condition where the treatment became essentially just to accept oneself as a homosexual, because the alternative to try to cure it was so infeasible. It was impossible to argue in good faith that attempting treatment of homosexuality was better than the alternative, because after over a hundred years of trying there was no effective treatment.

>>41693392
again I think transition is best for SOME people but it is clear that many people are confused about their identity due to other issues and end up regretting transition. Ergo it shouldnt be the held up as the only solution for anyone claiming to have gender dysphoria. And ostracization is certainly not the only reason people repress, many reppers simply understand that in some cases the costs outweigh the benefits

>>41693481
It’s so funny because we’ve been giving transgender surgeries before and after lobotomies became a thing and when they went away. AND YET A CRAFTED AND HANDMADE PUSSY REMAINS.

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>>41692480
damn dude, thats crazy, i wonder if any of the actual real researchers and scientists who study this sort of thing agree with y-

oh what's that? they dont? its almost like every logical piece of evidence goes against this theory.. huh! trans rights are human rights

>>41693407
so what i’m saying is the underlying problem is all that matters bcs all these ppl deal with real things.

anorexics often have severe self worth and socialization and authority figure and emotional issues

bpd ppl often have childhood developmental trauma and issues with parents and unstable environments and stuff (idk why else idk enough abt bpd)

and schitzos have like whatever idk prob a whole lot of trauma and genetic predisposition. i’ve had psychosis that only arises during extreme stress

ppl with depression often just dont take care of themselves and have trauma

trannies minds and bodies just develop differently naturally primarily in its essence ABSENT of external factors. so it’s just part of who u are. its not just ur mind its fucking physiological and developmental and what ever. and it doesn’t harm u if ur actually a tranny. transitioning within a healthy environment dramatically improves lives. unlike ana (most of the time)

so u just gotta do whatever u have to to get the best posssible outcome.

>>41693445
>>41693445
so ur argument is “rape is literally the same thing as having hallucinations or being unstable or being a tranny”

also no i think stimulants should be available otc for everyone to abuse if they want to bcs it’s be more fun

>>41693488
This is why we let medical professionals determine the consistency of a patient’s desire to transition, and that for those that remain consistent to then proceed with transitioning. The idea isn’t to just immediate give hormones to teens when they first request, but establish a reasonable history as determined by the DSM-V of when it’s appropriate to begin HRT treatment. Adults though should have access to HRT after a psych evaluation and not forced to wait 6 months to a year.

But there isn’t a hysteria of people transitioning, and if there were, they should be going through the aforementioned methods unless they’re an adult making their own decision on the matter.

You also still haven’t figured out any alternative solution for treating dysphoria in the face a medical history that has TRIED other alternatives already. So what are you even offering that licensed endocrinologists and psychiatrists haven’t already done before?

Like I give you the 40 year follow ups I give you multiple decade old follow ups with multiple hundreds of thousands of transgender people. And I don’t even think you’re gonna read them.

You’re just gonna continue spewing shit out of your gaping mouth about a group of people you barely even understand.

>>41693538
>so ur argument is
no. i was being facetious. my argument is that sometimes people want to do things that are destructive to themselves and their environments and so regardless of how much they are personally enjoying themselves it may be better for themselves and their neighbors if they are treated for their condition.
>also no i think stimulants should be available otc for everyone to abuse if they want to bcs it’s be more fun
i think you have a prion disease
>>41693565
conservatives and reactionaries are literally genuinely allergic to and terrified of real numbers and statistics and hard science i have no idea why the fuck you've been on this board more than a day and think there is any way to deal with conservatives other than putting bullets in skulls

>>41693582
I just like arguing with them. I want them to say they don’t like science. And then I teach them about the melting point of the human body and volcanoes.

>>41693539
actually hrt should be available both w a doctor and otc/behind the counter with pharmacists guidance. and shame fetishistic agps

like we literally don’t have pharmacists anymore shits cucked u have to go to a whole appointment and spend a billion dollars now and get fucked by retard doctors

>>41693601
>And then I teach them about the melting point of the human body and volcanoes
too much effort. bullets in skulls.

>>41693582
> destructive to themselves and their environments

ok moralfag

maybeeee some things r less bad than others and worth it if it’s rlly fun and has artistic value. go read decadent literature


plus the main topic of this argument is TRANNIES TRANSITIONING. which is neither self destructive nor harmful to others unless it’s reddithons

>>41693606
>actually hrt should be available
based
>shame fetishtic agps
blanchard is a quack doctor in the field of treating trans people, who strictly makes it his goal to reduce the idea of trans people to their sexuality, ignoring any dissident evidence to the contrary. It’s like eating up the slop the Heritage Foundation spew about homosexuality being a mental disorder. Like wtf?

Crossdressers/fetishists are going to do their thing regardless of HRT being easier or not, they won’t suddenly go away. I’d rather HRT just be available in spite of their existence.

You’re correct on the capitalistic heaven of profited healthcare

>>41693500
even the best medical scientists have a limited understanding of the brain and especially the effect of ideology and society on mental health, most metal health research is done with self reports which aren’t necessarily accurate. Plus our medical research only considers the individual, it’s not consider the implications of having weird gender fucked people running around on the mental stability of everyone else

>>41693539
Hrt can be accessed easily nowadays, many do so with little or no mental evaluation. Plus all the people who provide GAC to minors are obviously biased in favor of transition

>>41693678
omg i mean GENUINE AGPS.

i’m not saying “if u aren’t a beautiful hyperfeminine hsts kween loves wearing 12 inch pumps and sucking dick and kowck and listening to kim petras u should hang urself!”

i mean GENUINE SISSIES

>>41693674
>maybeeee some things r less bad than others and worth it if it’s rlly fun and has artistic value. go read decadent literature
look man i like abstract art i like taboo stuff felix the cat is one of my favorite films and my favorite comic is about two lynx teens who develop crushes for each other and start fucking and along the way learn to love and respect their prostitute mom i like fucked up stuff dawg and sometimes really good fucked up art comes from fucked up people BUT ALSO human beings are worth more than the art they produce and destroying a human life isn't worth me having more cub porn to jerk off to or another kanye album as good as MBDTF
ALSO ALSO its disrespectful to the arts in general to imply that great artists cant make great fucked up art without being incredibly fucked in the head to the point of near disability. a good artist can make the most fucked up shit you've ever seen AND hold down a regular life and be functional and the only reason you think otherwise is because you actually don't respect the arts at all and are just a fucking poser consumer cuck
>which is neither self destructive nor harmful to others
literally every word of every post i've made in this thread has been arguing FOR this fact
i don't know how you haven't caught on by now bpd-kun but I'm NOT a conservative and I am arguing that transitioning is GOOD
learn to follow along kitten you'll have more fun that way

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>>41692500
glegle is canonically trans chud. try again

>>41693759
Nonbinary animals don’t take drugs. you don’t need hrt to be trans

>>41693727
>hrt can be accessed easily
this really depends where you are. Like most red states almost criminalize giving HRT to trans people in current day (not just U.S. but also the UK and other parts of the world). News articles-wise i see a mixture of trans people slugging through long wait times just to see a doctor that will begin the process for trans care, and somehow others are able to get fast tracked. My case it took a year to go official route even when I DIY’d.

>all people that provide GAC to minors are biased
we actually don’t know if every single one is strictly following the DSM-V guidelines or not, and last I had checked into it, doctors of a given area were following their guidelines as to not lose their medical license.

>>41693737
>Genuine AGP
there is no AGP it’s strictly designed to muddy the optics of trans people. What you’re describing is just cis people with a desire to cross dress. If they’re trans and transition, then you should be capable of looking at them no different than a cis woman who does OF or porn. No double standards.

>>41693774
correct, regardless of hrt you can still be trans, and transitioning is different for everyone.

>>41693776
the DSM guidelines are a meme esp for adults, it basically says if you think about wanting to be the opposite gender your 3 months then you’re trans I mean that’s fucking insane

you don't need to take (or want to take) hrt to be trans

>poisoning the well

>>41693714
this is because mental illnesses aren’t real

>>41693739
i’m actually just saying shit lmfao it’s so fun idek which anon u were originally im js halfway rage baiting. but also i do belive all the things im saying to varying extents and contexts

and also my fav song atm is about bulimia and it’s rlly good so i think actually im right

but no im not even saying u have to be fucked to make good art omg ppl misinterpret tf out of anyone who says anything remotely close to that bcs that’s not even what i said

>>41693776
>there is no AGP it’s strictly designed to muddy the optics of trans people

u have not been around enough sry its like 1% of trannies but they’re actually real

Transitioning is literally the most anti-gay thing there is and it's like being super hetero. You hate gay people so much that you must transform your own body to match the heteronormative idea that performing the feminine gender role is only for the feminine looking people. Even cis people struggle with that but you're taking it to a whole new level. And it's not even just limited to gender or straight or gay, it's basically all identity. And you rather have it shackled and controlled, into some fucking predetermined mold by the people you do not even like.

Still, I am not like 100% against transitioning or something. If you really cannot find any other way around your innate homophobia or whatever, and would rather kill yourself, fine, transition. But like holy shit can you stop going around telling people about your boomer gender roles and how people who want to do X should look like Y. All you're really doing is reinforcing the very idea that was the source of your own agony to begin with. Think about that. Think.

>>41693790
Did you sit around for several months thinking that you should be the opposite gender?

>>41693831
actually ur wrong bcs im aap mtf and jealous of twinks and a fujo

>>41693836
uh of course, it’s common for people with identity issues due to other mental problems to question their gender as well, it doesn’t mean anything. so often transition is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and the lax dsm definition makes this worse

>>41693843
You are mtf so I am already right. The root motive for transitioning is always because someone doesn't want to look like what they do, because that is all what it does. Otherwise, you wouldn't do it.

>>41693790
>scientific census is a meme
then go and challenge them and present your evidence. Otherwise sit down before you unintentionally hurt others under a false guise you’re helping them.

>>41693849
>ransition is a permanent solution to a temporary problem
you can just stop taking hrt

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Gincel, what is your motivation? You spend IMMENSE amounts of time throughout the years yelling at trannies who will NOT change.

Why do you keep doing this?

You could have learned an entire language, picked up an instrument, finished an entire college degree in the time you've spent yelling at random trannies.

Your arguments are not compelling, they are immensely low IQ.

Genuinely, why?

>>41693798
>you have not been around enough
I’ve been around for 2 decades. I’m aware of online spaces like Susan’s place, /trap/ and when /lgbt/ was established. Baby trans being bombarded by transphobes looking for every bit of ammo, bombarded them with the idea that they can’t be trans unless it’s a fetish, quoting blanchards flawed typology. Cross dressers exist yes. But AGP does not. Most people that identify as AGP are just trans and have been misled by tranaphobes.

>>41693831
this idiot purposefully ignores what being trans actually means, and selfishly warps it to fit a narrative to put gay people down (and ultimate divide and conquer lgbt community). Gay people can be gay. Trans people can be trans unrelated to sexuality. Any issues you have about this should be brought up to a psychiatrist, instead of spreading disinformation on a group you vehemently despise, chud.

>>41693908
Because maybe there's multiple people and not just 1 schizo being online 24/7? I'm not the OP but I am here because for some reason the captcha at /v/ for me is some fucking God of War puzzle and I'm fed up with it. Here it is still normal though.

>>41693883
>I know you better than yourself
such a retarded stance to take, easily dismantled by just responding with:

We know you’re a pedophile lurking on this board, trying to convince people to not transition so that you can groom them to be “femboys” for your sick pleasure. You’re sick in the head and need to be put down.

>>41693831
this.
trannies are traitors.

>>41693966
>/v/tard filtered by captcha goes to the fag board to fag it up
lol

>>41693952
I "ignored" what trans people means because OP is talking about transitioning, so I am focusing on transitioning, and not the other subclasses locked behind the race select. I also said that it is more than about man/woman, it is about identity, hence I did not ignore the fact that people transition for reasons other than sexuality. And the part where you call me chud and tell me to take my meds doesn't really add anything.

>>41693986
chuds are subhuman

>>41693923
el emm aye oh
if you get a stiff one looking at yourself in female clothes you're clearly suffering from a pathological condition that should not be indulged.

>>41693984
You can of course list your reasons why you are taking body morphing drugs, but it's just that the problem with these kind of "discussions" is that after enough replies they always end up at the same destination anyway.

>>41693966
I don't think so lol

I recognize the arguments and typing style

>>41694011
If you actually went to trans support groups and spoke to psychiatrists on the matter, you would’ve learned that said trans people who were forced to repress their identity but are in moments where they feel comfortable expressing their identity suddenly feel permitted to feel sexual gratification. That does not equate to fetishizing it, but that when people don’t even feel comfortable in their bodies, they struggle or most times don’t even have an outlet to be sexually free until they permit themselves to express in their identity without being shamed.

All of which eventually gets normalized over time after they are no longer conditioned to feel bad or shameful for exploring their gender identity.

Go talk to a psychiatrist.

>>41694007
and yet, i argue that gnc people should be more accepted by society.
you can take hrt, grow boobs, wear dresses whatever idc. I even encourage it! Go be yourself!
But claiming to be a woman to do that is just plainly wrong. Social dysphoria is simply a ruse. It doesn't matter whether you have she/her or he/him pronouns to abusers of """weaker""" people.
The trannies betray gay men.

>>41693883
word salad sorry i did not understand anything past “because”. maubyeeeeee i don’t wanna be a disgusting man because i just don’t want to and it makes me wanna kms and feel incurable disgusting and i wanna be able to live happily and be pretty and there’s no explainable reason for that other than im js like that

>>41693923
then how am i 19 years old and been transitioning for 3 yrs and know more than and im smarter than u that’s kraysee

>>41694011
perchance. could be trauma induced psuedo agp and ur actually a real tranny mindraped by testosterone and trauma.

>>41694051
trauma induced agp isn’t the same as genuine paraphillic agp

>>41694029
>basement dweller lunatic claims to know far better than the scientific community
literal ramblings of a madman. There’s a reason you’re here regurgitating your lunacy and not out there setting the groundwork in the field of trans healthcare. Know your lane, maybe applying for a job?

>>41694059
So if they did all that but didn't claim to be women. But instead said they're men. You would be fine with that? But doesn't that still play into the whole feminine people do feminine things and masculine people do masculine things. Why do you even put focus on the words like man and woman. Focus on what's real.

>>41694074
>explain how i’m smarter than you since im 19?
incoherent argument, on top of being unsubstantiated towards the topic. But it’s good you let the rest know you have a clear immature understanding on the subject.

>>41694074
knowledge does not equal wisdom young anon.

>>41694096
“i am very mature”

W fallacy moment

>>41694112
“i am very wise”

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>>41694076
The reason I'm here is because look at this fucking captcha. But so okay, why don't you even want to try? Why are you just blocking everything and relying on authority? If it is so obvious why not just prove yourself right?

>>41694074
>maubyeeeeee i don’t wanna be a disgusting man
Yeah so you don't want to look like a man, because your psyche and programming cannot stand looking like it. Looking. Look. Looks. That's what HRT does. That's why you use it. That's why you want to transition. Got anything else to add?

>>41694095
>So if they did all that but didn't claim to be women. But instead said they're men. You would be fine with that?
oh absolutely I'd love it! but the whole woman thing stings and there's no upside to it unless you want to escape queerphobia, which in itself means betraying all other gnc people that live their lives as their agab.
it's just not fair to them.

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>>41693790
There’s literally no mention of transgender in any of the DSM editions. None. There was transsexuality, then gender identity disorder and now it’s gender dysphoria.

>>41694143
yeah so we agree. idk what ur argument is? that im having fun?

>>41694136
in order for it to be a fallacy it has to be incorrect. My post is highlighting how incoherent your posting is and that it genuinely does not contribute anything of value to further your arguments. Promoting the idea that you are stunted by your age in this debacle.

>>41694136
just give it a few years, hm?
you'll get there too!

>>41694160
“i am very logical and old”

ok lateshit

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You’re a moron who doesn’t even have reading comprehension with your shit filled mouth.

>>41694144
I don't know dude sounds like you're just as attached to your labels as they are, and you're just about having a fight with them.

>>41694169
no next year i’m gonna turn 20teen then the year after that ill turn 21teen then 22teen and ill never mentally mature bcs its more fun like that

>>41694074
>maubyeeeeee i don’t wanna be a disgusting man
do you realize you loose all potential support the moment you say this?

>>41694143
>/v/yard filtered by low iq captcha
this can’t be real. You weren’t actually stumped by that were you? It’s not even a bit of extra effort compared to the other round of captchas we receive here.

>Why are you blocking everything
We (trans community) have tried everything: repping, medications, conversion/electroshock therapy and the works. None of that shit works. And the years of scientific study on trans healthcare concluded (as well as trans people taking hrt on their own) that the best treatment has been transitioning. No one else before you, during, or after will ever come up with a better solution, most especially when the amount of effort they put in is just shitposting here and not working honestly in the field. Again, know your lane.

>>41694159
That you're taking girl pills because you don't want to look like a man. That is what girl pills do. If they did not do that, you would not take them. Capiche, princess?

>>41694154
because transgender is not a mental illness, it’s a condition. Gender dysphoria is the illness and it’s treated by transitioning

>>41694196
I’ve gained a ton of support from a lot of women in my life.

>>41694210
yes exactly. so why is that homophobic????

>>41694171
>upset at words outside the 50 they can recollect
>lateshit
lol, I DIY’d in my teens, git gud

>>41694215
I’m just pointing out to OP that the requirements he’s repeating are incorrect and they’re not even for being transgender, but being gender dysphoric.

Transitioning help me and it could help more

>>41694175
I just don't get why you need to be a woman socially to be satisfied with life...
Like, I'm a submissive gay man, I have gotten the fem treatment my whole life, had years long friendships with women growing up, got talked down to, not trusted with responsibilities, been invited to sleepovers, everything... yet that does not make me a woman nor do I see any appeal/upside in being addressed as such. I'm not fucking dense.
>>41694190
nah you're gonna grow up and it's gonna hurt real bad trust me.

>>41694217
Looking like a man causes you severe distress, that's pretty high levels of phobia don't you think?

>>41694217
If all you knew about a person is that they were only attracted to men, could you discern from that information alone if they were gay or not?

>>41694257
>im not fucking dense
you’re claiming you know an entire demographic better than themselves or the doctors treating them. I’d say that’s pretty fucking dense, Alan.

>>41694196
why? it’s true. men r gross and idw be a gross man. that’s a response to the dysphoria i feel. not the other way around. if anything it makes me more socially integrateable with other women???

>>41694236
W diy i support u queen

>>41694257
yeah but being hurt is fun so if i increase how much i get hurt then i have the most fun

>>41694261
yes absolutely. and?

>>41694268
yass

>>41694275
Okay then tell me the upside of passing as a woman vs. a gay man like me.

>>41694306
>if anything it makes me more socially integrateable with other women???
you really think being a tranny is gonna make you more integrable with women. LMAO!
If you can't integrate with women as a man you're not gonna be able to as a tranny without having to lie your ass off.
Have a look around, flamers are doing just fine. Sorry the girlies treat you like a straighty :(

>>41694348
>flamers are doing just fine
so we aren't hypersexual perverts spreading disease and trying to groom children?

>>41693774
glegle canonically does crack cocaine bigot

>>41694306
>yes absolutely. and?
That's extreme phobia. And I know that I say homophobia but really it's just another part of genderphobia. And if we spin that word around what it really means is: the need to perform the actions that people expect from you.

Like you do not just simply have strong dislike gay men or something, you have the dislike to seeing a man do things that most people do not think a man should do. Maybe you can give a pass to some men on this, but when it comes to yourself? No, that's too much. You can't just let it slide, peak cringe humiliation ritual and so on. So then in your head you are left with two choices: 1) man up (and die inside because you don't like it) or 2) change your appearance so that you can appeal for the other role.

>>41694378
see this is what I mean by homophobic...
and btw there are a bunch of people saying THE 3XACT SAME SHIT about trannies.

>>41694318
You’ve been here long enough poking other trans folk about this. You’re not satiated with their answers. They feel equally dysphoric about masculine characteristics as you would if you lost your dick, grew breasts, spoke in a higher pitch naturally, had frail hands.
>but i’m the soft subby gay fag type
then imagine if you were still subby but grew 6 feet tall, muscle bara bear mode type, thick fingers, and a small dick.

Most transphobes quickly brush away the hypothetical and state they “could easily live life as either a man or a woman and never feel dysphoric”, when you have men getting mastectomies due to gynecomastia, or dick surgeries if they lost their dick, because they feel less like a man otherwise.

>upsides of passing as a woman
being able to grow old as a typically woman and not balding into a typically man with a beer gut. Having a presentable body type that makes you feel comfortable in your skin if you are identified the way you prefer to be. To not be expected to be a guy with a dick, but a woman (and with SRS then a vagina alongside that).

>>41694409
>all about appearance
Masculine men can be submissive wtf is wrong with you??

>>41694433
let me clarify: masculine looking men

>>41692480
Studies conducted in clean environments have data suggesting the opposite and that currently the only effective treatment is transition

ITT:
people that don't have gender dysphoria talking as if they have it.

>>41694409
Not that guy but
>imagine if you lost your dick, grew breasts, spoke in a higher pitch naturally, had frail hands.
>imagine if you grew 6 feet tall, muscle bara bear mode type, thick fingers, and a small dick. (why the small dick tho that's just mean)

Like these both can still be fun choices. The problem with you (and well most trans people) is that you're so narrow sighted. To you everyone should just act based on their looks (and gender). Everyone should just be a stereotype. You gain so much comfort from being "just like everyone else".

>>41694458
>muh gd
Go sit down and have a think about where your gender dysphoria comes from.

>>41694433
>all about appearance
>acts like cis men feel comfortable having no dick
??? oh wait you’re dense, my bad, forgot about that.
>masculine men can be submissive
correct, and that’s not the point, the point is to illustrate dysphoria. Let’s take your argument to an extreme:

Why should people care if we create a world where everyone exists in identical robot-esque bodies? Dysphoria (i.e. you arguing that looks are superficial) does not matter here because we are all free from this expectation. Again, i’m not focused on the individuality or clear banishment of the human expression; we’re focused on the comfort within the shell, the body.

>>41694440
How can someone be masculine without looking masculine when that is what masculine is wait what I think I'm losing it

>>41694464
You, much like the dense gincel i was responding, continue to ignore when cis people experience dysphoria, and receive GAC to alleviate their dysphoria. It’s a double standard that transphobes place on trans people.

>>41694348
i literally do not understand what ur trying to say. i socialize like a bpd girlfaggot im not rlly an autistic man. i had all female friends when i was a child and once i hit the age where everyone learns about gender differences thats when everything started to go downhill.

>>41694402
what does this even mean? gay men r cool i fw fags heavy. i feel spiritually aligned with twinks. i just wanna be a girl. so i’m a girlfaggot

>>41694486
A man can look masculine but behave feminine.
>>41694485
If you're not comfortable with the above you're misandrist since there is no inherent sense of right or wrong appearance. It is all a social imprint.

>>41694514
>girlfaggot
Shut up, you're a woman as you claim, so you can't be a gay man. You purposefully threw that away. Wth are you doing appropriating my experiences? Isn't it enough to do so with cis women's?

>>41694524
nta but misandry is awesome

>>41694562
actually my experience aligns with both women and faggots so yes i am a girlfaggot and ur being homophobic against me

>>41694524
so cis women are misandrist when they grow beards and seek to get laser? Or BA if they have small breasts? Or FFS if their genetics cave them a caveman forehead?

Cis men are misogynists when they get mastectomies, or phalloplasty, or lose weight to look less like a pair shape?

The crux of your issue is that you are incapable of empathizing how a trans people experiences dysphoria (unless it happens to you), much like you probably can’t empathize a north korean trapped in north korea. Or a Ukrainian forced to go to war to defend their country. You have a very limited capacity of empathy.

>>41694477
what's ego dystonia? why when you look in the mirror do you see a man or a woman looking back at you? because that's what you really identify as. if you don't innately identify as a woman, no amount of surgery will change that. none. you'll see yourself looking back at yourself in the mirror.

huh. can you guess why autism excludes you from being a tranny? autists look in the mirror and can't conceptualize that it's they're reflection. they think it's someone else look at them, not them looking at themselves. meaning, you can't perform the mirror test on an autist because they're too retarded to understand what a reflection even is. so when you have research papers and scientist proclaiming a massive overlap of autism and gender dysphoria, they're being disingenuous. they're discriminating against tranny because they don't get it. they can't wrap their head around how someone could look at themself in the mirror and see a woman with a tumor growing out of her crotch. that's not genital dysphoria, that's real gender dysphoria. you retards will argue about semantical things like clothes or the size of your tits because of your objectification of women and latent sexism. people act like a woman's worth is defined by the size her breasts. it's not and it never has been.

so before you tell me to sit down, remember. i made you what you are. i feed you your ridiculous answers. that's why i know better counter points than the right wing grifters. to me? you're the grifters. the fakers. the trenders. oh you came out after 2015 and the spread of transvisibility? oh you didn't know you were trans? trans isn't the identity. it's a slur. it's used to keep trannies in their place. to other them and oust them from society. i see you frauds running your mouths. the majority of you got swept up in the modern day glam rock equivalent. you don't have gender dysphoria. your kind wants to be women because they don't identify as one innately.

>>41694586
So you're non-binary, not a trans woman? Because why would your experiences align with gay men's experiences if you were a woman?
>>41694587
Yes. They are only bending to social norms which must be defeated at any cost. Everybody is beautiful the way they are.

>>41694627
I'm a gay man and ego dystonia is an abolished psychological concept.
I'm not reading the rest of your text wall because of introspecting on where you gender dysphoria you'll just tell me how you're smarter than me.

>>41694653
*because instead of introspecting where your gender dysphoria comes from

>>41694632
no i am a transsexual woman its just fun to call myself a faggot cus it’s fun and makes me look cooler and unique and ppl like me for it and it’s kinda accurate at least to me cus at its essence arent transsexual women just the faggot version of women?

like i’m a woman of faggot experience and that is kinda okay sometimes but also i just wanna be a women but u have to work w what u have

>>41694500
You know what's funny. I was just about to mention that to other guy but you showed up so I'll reply it to you then. Yes, cis people do that. And yes, it is similar to what trans people do. But do you believe that that somehow justifies your actions? Do you believe that the cis person struggling with their identity is actually just healthy individual taking care of themselves?

When Jake chooses construction as his career instead of barber because his classmates told that barbers are faggots is Jake doing a good choice for himself? When Bob starts taking steroids to increase his gains is the choice he is making just good for himself? When Joe takes leg surgery to go from 5'11" to 6'2" is the choice also something that a healthy minded individual would choose to do?

There's also lots of really stupid minor things that you would think that don't make any sense like not eating salads or fruit, not using conditioner, wearing clothing with little color, unkempt facial hair, no smiling, spreading legs while sitting... And you're using all this to justify whatever it is you're doing? Really?

>>41694632
>yes they should accept the way they look and not try to gender it further
well at least you’re consistent. But you’ll be met with disagreement by the vast majority of the cis population alone, let alone trans people. People enjoy self-grooming and leaning into gender stereotypes/roles. Some people enjoy presenting gnc. And some people are treating their dysphoria through transitioning. All of these are valid. It’s just abusive when you go out of your way to demonize trans people attempting to feel comfortable in their own skin. No one wants to be told by another person how to live their life. So i’m convinced you don’t want a Christian demanding you abstain fro lm homosexual activities including sodomy, and to repent for your sins for the rest of your days. Don’t be a hypocrite.

>>41694701
>>41694500
both of u are retarded

>>41692615
It's a bit more complicated than that but yeah, this isn't the own that OP thinks it is. See, in various indigenous, non-industrialized cultures people who would be diagnosed as schizophrenic in developed countries are often considered shamans, prophets, etc and having what we would call "hallucinations" is not necessarily a negative thing. You can dismiss this as primitive cultures not understanding what's going on, but it seems like often times the visions actually turn out to be useful. It's possible that their brains are processing sensory information the conscious mind is unaware of and packaging it in a way the shaman and their tribe will understand. Like if there are tremors in the Earth that are just barely strong enough to feel, they might see a vision of a God or ancestor spirit warning of an impending earthquake. But because urban environments don't function in a way that is in accord with biogical processes there can be no intern, intuitive calculations by this method that will be useful, because there is no culture of shamanic training or philosophy in First World countries the schizophrenic cannot interpret their visions even if they did and because the selective pressures and the way sexual partners are chosen is cemetery different and mostly unguided it is entirely likely that the biomechanical faculties of a First World schizophrenic brain are indeed "broken" and of lower quality at best than their tribal counterparts.

>>41694653
>>41694668
>self-hating gay crying because trannies get more attention than him

>>41694653
If they DID introspect on the origin of their gender dysphoria, what do you expect they would find?

>>41694701
The distinction is the part where we permit people to express themselves as they desire. If people want to smoke weed regardless if we think it’s harmful We don’t place a universal ban. If people want to go into construction or become a barber or become a musician, or a teacher or get leg lengthening, we don’t shame them for it. The problem is when you think people must live a specific version of life that only you are the judge of. It’s over controlling and irrepresentstive of people living their lives as they desire.

>>41694703
>oh no le disagreement
do I sound like I care about people disagreeing with me? I hope not.
And besides at least you admit your doing this to conform to stereotypes.
Get fucked, become a normie. G'bye.
>>41694689
You're not a gay man and idc what's fun for you. If you're a woman, fine, I'll treat you like one. Step off sis, I don't wanna deal with you.

>>41694738
I DOUBT that.
>>41694748
I am genuinely curious!

>>41694763
no i need a justification for being an aap fujo sorry

>>41694763
>conform to stereotypes
>gay vtard enjoys being a submissive gay vtard stereotype
You’re still declaring yourself the sole arbiter on what you deem is “right and wrong” stereotypes, instead of just letting people express themselves as they want. You don’t get to pick and choose for others, only for yourself.

>>41694759
Why shouldn't you shame people for their shit choices and making everything else more shit in the process? Like bro so what if someone smokes weed or is alcoholist. So what if they do this or that or have mental issues like it's their own life and money lool. This mindset doesn't breed anything good.

>>41694779
You're not a very convincing "aap fujo"

>>41694824
because you’re extending to
>I should be able to tell people they can no longer be homosexual. No one is allowed to go into arts, and everyone should be forced into an office job. Entertainment should be banned and we all listen to glorious national anthem 24/7 in our free time.
Because the opposite of what I stated previously is to just control everyone in how they express themself, including you.

>>41694774
well, good thing you're not a lawyer

>>41694859
you can be homosexual, if you take estrogen

>>41694850
Come on they write in all lowercase and poor english with lots of abbreviations so it must be a cute girl.

>>41694850
ya cus it’s only mild and more spiritual/aesthetic than anything

>>41694877
thanks xister

>>41694779
... you mean a heterosexual female. you don't want phalloplasty or to dick men down. you want to be dicked down. that means you don't have aap.

>>41694876
naa you see if we’re all about shaming and controlling people then “I” think no one is allowed to have or explore a sexuality and should be working 24/7 for our billionaire overlords. Because obvious there’s no limit to shaming.

>>41694888
so a lie. got it

>>41692480
transitioned as a teenager 12 years ago and my life is way better for it

>>41694941
you take that back! the only one we work for is mao.

>>41694859
If you believe that entertainment isn't useful and cannot increase quality of life, comparing it to the aforementioned things in the last post, then I don't know what to say. For gay people I would prefer that it was normalized for married "straight" men to be gay with other guys and it not be taboo or so black and white. Like I believe that if gender norms and sexuality weren't so binary then there would be less people who would feel that they need to choose a side. And if someone doesn't want or can't have kids then fine. Earth had 1 billion people in 1800. Today it's 8,2 billion and it triple in the last 70 years.

>>41694929
noooo i need to be a gay twink bottom and be fucked by strong men. bcs that’s the only way i’ll be able to cope w sex pre bottom surg

>>41694949
average moid unable to understand spirituality or aestheticism.

>>41694918
I'm not a girl though. Can't you see from my capitalized sentences?

>>41695009
Only if you seriously believing in restricting people who express themselves. I just don’t want a double standard with arbitrary lines drawn by a person completely misunderstanding how trans people feel and what benefits transitioning has been for them.

>>41695029
ohhh sorry i call everyone sister

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>>41695011
ascetecism =|= aestheticism.

you're reach for looks comes across as incredibly vane and invalidates any spiritual pursuits as you dwell on the tangible reality rather than the freedom of the self from the worldly tethers that bind us. to claim to be spiritual while still claiming to be obsessed with your looks is an oxymoron.

that's how i know you're just some dumbass kid still.

are monks spiritual? are they obsessed with vanity? no. vanity is a sin.

>>41695047
Is not being able to cum a restriction your expression?

>>41695069
how the fuck do u expect me to know those r 2 seperate words

my vanity and bpd overlaps are very much spiritual. immaturity is spiritual. and it’s all very beautiful and fun

>>41695047
But don't you think that it is bad to limit one's self expression to something so superficial as looks? We are born different, nobody is dealt the same hand. Should people with a lacking hand be pressured into "fixing" themselves in order to unlock their true self? The more fixing we do, the more obsessed we become about these looks. I personally struggle with this from time to time and when I see "ugly" people having a good time and being confident, I can only wonder how they unlocked such power.

>>41692873
im a schizo that abused drugs until i started hearing voices of people i knew
then i kept going for another 16 years
it was caused by all the drugs 100%
psychiatric medication sedates and slows down my thoughts so I can manage them better with the tools I worked out with a fellow schizo ive never had a therapist that could help me probably because i cant tell the truth or ill go to jail

>>41695258
That’s something for you to convince the general cis population on first, before bringing it to trans people.

>>41695258
The thing is I can accept being an ugly woman. I'd rather not be of course. But I don't feel the need to do tens of thousands of dollars worth of plastic surgery about it.
But I simply am not a man.

>>41696796
I'm bringing it to both. Some cis people seem to understand it, or at the very least fake it. idk. But with trans people it's usually much more difficult and they're more stuck up in their gender roles and lookism and their stances on all this, which is kinda opposite of what lgbt is known for and all that, from being broad and fluid to being narrow.

>>41693737
>GENUINE SISSIES
those are all hsts btw

>>41693790
yeah, cis people don't do that

>>41698999
Not that anon but yeah, while I sort of agree with you, it's also really hard to distance myself from physical reality like that.