I think MTFs can be real girls if they put in enough effort but I don't think FTMs can ever be real boys no matter whatam i weird
>>41700315CONGRADULATIONS YOU ARE COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE
>>41700315it's easier to be a hole after all
>>41700357being a girl is in ur heart not ur hole
>>41700315I disagree. Your logic has to be logically consistent. Please be kind to poonchads. t. mtf
>>41700315I think like many MTFs, they need coaching that they don't get. Some cis women 100% learn how to be serious, responsible, systematic thinking people. It always seems to be traumatic to them the same way its traumatic for boys to become men.
>>41700428maybepooners seem like tryhards. like they want to be men but they don't Get It and so they're doing dude stuff but with woman glasses on.also they seem to be kinda proud of it. a lot of MTFs reach a certain point where if they can be unclockable to you for 20 years they'll happily keep it that way and never even hint that they transitioned whereas I don't see as many pooners trying to disappear into the crowd
>>41700315wow what a controversial opinion for this board... this is definitely gonna make some waves...
>>41700517FTMs want to keep one foot planted in each world. They don't want to give up the ability to run back to female status and say, "You're not allowed to be mean to me because I'm AFAB," if someone doesn't do what they want.
>>41700537...Do we? I wish I could escape the curse of being born female more than anything
>>41700550Early HSTS FTMs just went off and lived as men. They didn't even need HRT, because they were sufficiently naturally masculine in both development and demeanor. The opposite of almost all FTMs today, who run away from the downsides of being female but also run away from the downsides of being socially male when pressed.
>>41700517>whereas I don't see as many pooners trying to disappear into the crowdMaybe because they've disappeared into the crowd.If anything, it feels like trans men are those most able to go stealth and disconnect from "the trans community." Sure there are those trenders you're talking about, but those have decreased, and it is just typically easier to pass for FTMs than MTFs. I think being unclockable after 20 years is more attainable for them. There are probably still more MTFs like that, though, because 20 years ago, MTFs were more common than FTMs.
>>41700581God I wish I could be socially maleNot being born a cis man is a curse, I hate this body
>>41700591>Maybe because they've disappeared into the crowd.kinda sucks that i'm a dumb human and potentially subject to logical fallacies but ALSO there aren't that many trans people in general and that FTMs are so visible bugs melike i'm very confident there are just a fuckload of MTFs floating around that I'll neva eva know about because they'll fly under my radard but I'm not that confident about FTMs kinda vibes based sorry
>>41700676I mean, passing trans men aren't hard to find online, either. There are passing trans male YouTubers, like Stephen Morgan and Jammidodger (though they aren't like the pinnacle of masculinity they could totally go stealth instead of being openly trans). There are semi famous people like Billy Lane, and Buck Angel.But they don't tend to be attention whoring all over TikTok and at university campuses, so that might be why they seem less visible.
>>41700839Buck Angel stops "passing" the moment he opens his mouth and speaks.
>>41700856He should have done voice training.My therapist is a trans man who transitioned like in his 40s and passed in a few years, and he just sounds like a gay guy I guess.
>>41700537FTMs unironically need fight clubs. Get it through their heads real fast that men dont run away. Eveybody including other men expect them to stand and fight.
>>41700866>he just sounds like a gay guy I guess.this would drive an amab nuts until they fixed it
>>41701070Most FTMs don't actually want to be indistinguishable from cis men. They want to be special snowflakes who are somehow both female and male at the same time.
>>41700350FPBP>>41700315Every study ever done says the opposite
>>41700676>ftms are somehow more visible than mtfs but also mtfs are all anyone ever speaks aboutanon you don't have to beat around the bush here, just say you don't like ftms and go
>>41701053It must suck so much cock to be a genuinely dysphoric ftm and see that this is what people think of you
>>41701070Not gay guys.Point is, it just requires a bit of voice training to get rid of. It's more doable for FTMs to go stealth.
>>41700315This is making me VERY sad
>>41701097>Every study ever done says the oppositebeing a man is not a scientific phenomenon you can't measure being a man just like you can't measure being a woman>>41701099I don't like them :( but i want to not not like themi would like to be told i am stupid and to believe itor i would like the world to revolve around my whims either works>>41701113sorry...
>>41700315Why would you say this to me :(((((I am sad now
>>41701187Anonette I honestly think you just need to hang out with more trans guys. You remind me of those ftms who think that all mtfs are 6ft rapehons in dresses because they only stick to their own little clique.
>>41700315I disagree with the notion that they can't ever, but I kinda see where you're coming from. personally I just think real gender incongruence is much rarer in women than it is in men, so you see far less FtMs who are actually malebrained and reject their feminine aspects, giving the false impression that the whole identity is represented by the many non-medical tiktok larpers. it's important to have a fair perspective on it though, because it's not like MtF optics are much better, and I certainly wouldn't like to be categorized in with all the zero effort literal rapehons out there
>>41700315I don't think FTMs will get there until they have better penis technology. Until then, they really are cooked.MTF at least have the ability to get a decent enough faux vagene.FTMs are basically mogged until the cyberpunk worlds Mr Stud becomes a thing really (better than strap ons and whatever fake shit they have currently).
>>41700371>poonchads.lol
>>41701193>>41701162don't be sad anonYou're a chad to meKeep your head upMost people here are very young
>>41700537Why would you not be proud of being afab? Its just like its cool to be palestinian but not so good to be the genocide people. Amab = horrible people who often rape and enslaveAfab = beautiful people who have suffered in the hands of amabsTrans women don't get that they are like white people in black face and trans men are like octoroons who try to be white.Trans women and amabs are not cool. Its always worse when the opressor tries to larp as opressed. Thats why nobody really has empathy towards trans women.>t.roon
>>41701363Its better to be a man with a vagina and ability to carry a mans seed vs having a man made penis.
>>41701087Its the same with trans women who want to keep their penis (most of us)
>>41701472>Its always worse when the opressor tries to larp as opressedSomething evil about the modern world is how often large groups of people are compressed into a single omniperson. The average AMAB trans has probably been a constant victim of patriarchy and heteronormativity and all the buzzwordisms (they're real, typing them just reads lame even in prog spaces) their entire life. The bottom of the totem pole. Abused and beaten and cast aside and never even given a chance to actually benefit from the rigged system at all.But we do not have time or capacity to be empathetic towards or explore the experience of all members of a group. We take the easiest possible path and compress all members of the group "men" and compress them into the OmniMale who is the ultimate oppressor of all groups and has never suffered any real slight at the hand of another.
>>41701594AFAB people don't get physically attacked and their bones broken in school for being incorrigibly feminine.
>>41701472Why would you want to be the losing team? I must rape and pillage
>>41701619i don't know if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me
>>41700517>>41700537desu my experience, ive met so many FtMs who are stealth men and who keep it that way, while MtFs even if they run away from 'manhood' keep an essance...mainly agps but still applies.Most FTMs i see actually try, while most MtFs just want to be superqueerthis also applies to 'HSTS' using grindr.>>41701099but this is also true. News LOVES to talk about MTFs in concept but seriously most people have no clue what most look like
>>41701646I'm agreeing with you. Feminine males are at the bottom of the social pecking order.
>>41701619Yes afab people just get raped and mutilated in the hands of amabs as conversion therapy
>>41701978>this also applies to 'HSTS' using grindrAlmost nobody who claims to be HSTS is actually HSTS, because it was never just about attraction to males.
>>41702016eh i don't agree with that one desu. I agree that for many its just 'oh man make me feel more womanly' and thats inane. However I do think some are genuine; in that they are just attracted to guys as a girl, but that attraction and response doesn't effect them knowing their womanhood
>>41702008>in the hands of amabs>>41701594
>>41702037The ones who assimilate successfully tend not to get hung up on HSTS vs AGP, because, having assimilated successfully, they have no need to try to prove being "good trans" and not "bad trans." It's obvious to anyone in their lives who knows they're trans that they're "good trans."
>>41702058Agreed for sure. I think everyone is good trans and theres no 'right' part of the dichotomy for it. Dysphoria and Belief is the primary marker of "trutrans" whatever that means.I guess I'm talking about intended end results? Like how do you see yourself 'post trans'
>>41702115I think the only reason to get hung up on any sort of typology if you've completed your transition and successfully assimilated is if one type of trans person is actively damaging your life, whether directly or indirectly, for example by turning public opinion against trans people by behaving egregiously poorly in public. Even then, I doubt that would split neatly across HSTS/AGP lines.
