AGP is a result of male socialization and male puberty. You weren't born that way, you were made that way. But this isn't good news, you are broken and it probably cannot be undone.
>>41869019What if I'm XXY though?
>>41869029Idk how that matters hereI'd assume you still got male socialization and at least partially male puberty
and you want to discipline us for it, i presume
>>41869047no I'm just seething at the fact that iwnbaw myself
>>41869058it dosn't come off as seething. it comes off as something else..
This thread reminds me to go jerk off to the idea of lesbians riding my face or the image of me cucking my partner in front of her in our apt
>>41869019"AGP" isn't a thing that exists at all, it's a formless bogeyman you apply to anyone you feel like and has no internally consistent logic or evidence to it.
>>41869113>>41869121pls kys>>41869124i knowbut i still do feel ruined also where did you get picrel from? looks interesting but it would be cool if the sources were quoted
>>41869237>if you j/o you should kys
>>41869237I'm sorry, I thought you wer terf who was trolling and tried to mess with your head about it. shows what I know
>>41869019If that's what you think, then what specifically do you think causes it?I guess I became AGP in my pre-adolescence, but I had had wishes of being a girl even as a young child.Some people say they never had any childhood fantasies and they really did just become addicted to AGP pornography like they say, but if that's the case, I wonder why they sought it out in the first place. I don't think I could give myself a foot fetish even if I wanted to as an adult by watching foot fetish porn.So if AGP is caused by male socialization, I think it must be something from your childhood.
>>41869315my thoughts:I think that AGP is basically what happens when you want to be a girl but le society won't let youChildren learn about what's allowed and what is not in terms of gender very quicklyEven if you have some super woke parents you'll still end up interacting with people from the outside and le compcis will still be imposed on youYou will end up internalizing this desire and then sexualizing it and then it becomes grossIf the same child was allowed to be a girl the same way any cis girl is, it would end up 10 times less AGP (it's AGPness would be in "female range")The way testosterone affects your brain also does matter a lotWanting to be a girl as a kid isn't in itself AGP, its just... being a tranny
>>41869315Your fucked up brain expects a girl in the mirror, she's not there so you start dreaming about it.
>>41869348Yeah pretty much this
>>41869348how do i know if i remember wanting to 'be a girl' or was effeminate at a young age i would have no way to remember cause it would be all fine and dandy to me and your retard brain can't comprehend subtle discouragements i do remember semi violent fantasies about women where i was the woman because it's an odd thing for a child to do even i knew that back then it was odd so it's plastered in the memory lanethe thing is my fantasies pretty much stayed the same through all of adolescence and only went in the range of normal sexuality when i acknowledged the agp and the bottom tendencies and even now when i stay away from feminine shit for too long they go back to those kinds of helpless fantasies
>>41869446Whatever you had going on back then, you knew that it's something way outside of society's expectations, so you internalized it, sexualized it etc.Idk if the distinction between being effeminate and wanting to be a girl is even relevant here
>>41869561girls are effeminate no?
>>41869446>how do i know if i remember wanting to 'be a girl' or was effeminate at a young ageI just remember it because I had those wishes for a long time. I wasn't effeminate like fem gay men are, though.Your fantasizing with you as a woman seems similar enough to me.While I often wished explicitly I could wake up as if I had always been a girl, I often also just fantasized with myself as a girl or an adult woman and I'm counting that the same.But your fantasies had you as the victim of violence. Was your mom abused at alll?>Wanting to be a girl as a kid isn't in itself AGPIt seems like proto AGP
>>41869572YesSo the distinction is between being a girl vs wanting to be a girlWhether a child who wants to be a effeminate will actually proceed to be effeminate depends on how much approval child would receive from people around it
>>41869348>>41869356if you see yourself as gross and AGP as a perversion its evidence enough that you aren't what you're afraid of. even in your earlier response when you told someone to kill theirself. if you were the person you were afraid of you would probably have reacted differently to say the least.im saying this because i often feel like a horrible freak for wanting to be a woman and for not feeling like ive been able to change my body enough and having sexual desires while being that (or not being as female as id like as well), and for how i was abused, sexually for it and how some of the treatment at times made me feel. whether cis women feel this way too (they probably do) or not doesn't really matter because there's nothing about that fact that makes it feel any better, only gives you a slightly narrower window in terms of what you might allow yourself as catharsis. as if you needed permission in the first place.it was not your decision to be treated that way and even if there is some cope to be made about it, it wasn't reflective of your true will, which is not and shall never be something they can take from you. if there is any sort of underlying philosophical reality which remains unmutable from all possible embodied changes its that autonomy has a concrete non-deconstructable reality (bc it is autonomous) that is your say and not somebody else's, and that everything else is on some level downstream of this reality. idk about you but for me feeling like AGP pervert involves feeling some sort of remorse for my mistakes. it also involves being made to feel wrong as a form of manipulation, which has happened a lot. gaslighting has been used to confuse me about what my desires were and might have been used to confuse you as well. but in the first case if i knew what i was doing, then there is no reason to feel broken. if i did not know what i was doing, then lesson learned about the world i become closer to what i truly want.charcter limit
HSTS is the result of internalized homophobia and gayness (esp. gnc gays) not being accepted by others. You were not born feeling like a woman, that's a reaction to others not accepting you liking men and acting girly. You are broken and it probably cannot be undone.
>>41869578>Was your mom abused at alll?no house seemed pretty normal or you mean during her childhood? how the fuck should i know i just picked up ideas of women being kidnapped etc from tv and wanted to be them makes me feel like a creep >>41869587i've always come across as too sensitive i think and used to be sociable but pretty much went perma quiet around middle school i think my mom 'popped the question' a few times asking if i wanted to be girl or wear one of her dresses but she did it so ironically in front of her sisters i think she was just really getting into her clothes or making fun of me because she said something similar few mins later to my brother and now i feel she asks the same question everyone
>>41869693>makes me feel like a creep I also always felt like a creep. I thought this was a secret I would take to the grave and I was deathly afraid of others finding out. But I don't feel like an inherent creep anymore. It's just a neutral fact.
>>41869726sex is bad
>>41869664honestly having had 5 years of my life when my sexuality was stereotypical moid sexuality is the worsti remember having female friends at 14 and trying to constantly talk abt sex with them and even send them half naked pics of myself (consentually)i even masturbated to my own pics and my reflection (of a 14/15 year old boy)during these 5 years i also had 1 relationship with a cisf, back then i thought it was something beautifully romantic but from today's perspective i know that both of us just wanted sexo the thought that a couple years ago i was a moid sex pest who had this kind of moided objectifying attraction to female bodies is so grossi really want to just blame puberty bc i wasnt like that at all before like 13but the fact that i willingly have been that kind of person makes me think that my soul might be permamoided
>>41869019What if I got castrated? If there's no sex drive there's no reason to be a girl.
>>41869917if you are convinced that this will eradicate your desire to be a woman, then why not? you won't ever fulfil this desire anyway
>>41869936I don't know how to do that. I want to fully eradicate my sex drive but I don't know enough about medicine and I doubt it's an elective procedure.
>>41869951Idk if you can do that fully but CPA is pretty good at thisI mean, it's a drug meant for pedos
>>41869917you did what jewish women wanted you to do
>>41869981jewish women are the jews of gender
>>41869872Your soul is not permamoided. Firstly moids dont masturbate to their own reflection normally. the only time I've heard of people doing it was trans lesbians and cis women usually being told to as a humiliation thing. But maybe that's just the people I've been friends with. Maybe we are just gay psychopaths but if you truly were one you wouldn't feel this sense of shame about it. I know you probably see it as a neutral fact now but what I see is feelings of defeat and resignation. actions are only factual because they are in the past. you can make predictions based on past actions but never fully accurate. People make what I see as unnecessary expectations based on how I'm fairly undramatic and meticulous, quiet and I think things through. But I think it can be very easy to get into your own head when this is you, because you act based on the models you've formed. it is important to remember that the world that can be named is not the world.I have abused a lot of drugs to cope with it especially downers like Xanax, kraton, ketamine. But I try to remember that I can escape from my own heavy thoughts in better ways like creating art, music, reading, meditation. And cooking and eating good food. These things arent distractions, they are inputs of new information and reality beyond the depressive pocket dimension my own thoughts can be sometimes and I bet you have some like this too.I cut a section of self talk because something else I've felt guilty over and worked on was how far I could swing in the opposite direction with rearranging my values, life, aesthetics in terms of: not wanting to conform to a pattern. but I'll save it if this doesn't apply to you. Thank you for listening to my schizo lecture. the maximum softness capable of being exerted by all heavy machinery is a good short story that captures imo the guilt felt of being agp
>>41870204>masturbating to yourself as a humiliation thingi have never even though about this being humiliating>past actions are only true as predictions of future or somethingi already tried this cope and it just didnt worki am stupidly fixated on the idea of le female essence and posessing it or noti am disturbed by the possibility of being a fraud and that if i am one then it will be possible for other ppl to tell that>dont do drugs and pick up hobbiesdrugs kinda don't help so i'm not taking them. it seems to me that i would really have to take a lot to forget about things at least for a whilei will proceed to shape my life in a way i want it to be but i can't help but feel that one day i'll realise that it was all for nothinganyways i'm just a stupid internet tranny who seeks anything remotely validatingas you would expect from a trannoid internet user
>>41870359>HumiliationI mean you seem to feel a sense of shame from it, some people do it because they want to feel that shame, or have it be inflicted.>past actions are predictive of future or whateverOkay i smoked a dab and it began to hit when I was writing this so sorry it was inarticulate. >I am fixated on le female essenceOh, I see.I was also fixated on le femine in my first year or so of transition. My essence of womanhood was very elegant and rigorous, and in line with all the theory. It satisfied all trans definitions, it explained the need to pass, why women are gentle and communal, self critical and everything else. It included core experiences which validated it at the end of the day however were not very enjoyable. Being raped did not make me feel heckin' valid, it was not the things I was reaching for. This is a problem because, as a tainted male I could not have a definition based in my own male or trans experiences. However I was left to conclude that the thing I was grasping for was not externally theorized by feminists but rather my own internal sense of self and what it resonates with, which involves living as a woman. For me gentleness, softness, humility, cooperation are core. The gentlest person I've ever met is a trans woman. She has a grace that is entirely her own, that only she could come up with. >i will proceed to shape my life in a way i want it to beI don't know how to emphasize this best but I think this is exactly what you should be doing. Because there are ways of being elegant and beautiful that only you know how to do. They are not 'essential' but that is the point. They are a product of your own experiences. And I think on some level you owe it to yourself, and honestly to the rest of us to share them. And it's okay if you're clumsy at first, we all have skeletons in our closets.
>>41869019I was AGP well before I hit puberty.
>>41869019Most males will never develop AGP, so maybe it's partly hereditary or inherited from other male relatives that had it. It's such a foreign fetish to most males, that you would be attracted to women yet your attraction manifests itself in a desire to become the women you're attracted to. I do think AGP doesn't belong with the other letters as it's essentially a misplaced heterosexual attraction to women.
I wish I was a girl.
it's just gender dysphoria mixed up with normal sexuality
>>41871382AGP is all about the conflict of attraction and envy. Or one could even say that it's envy mistaken for attraction, or a complete fusion of those feelings. A guy feeling any envy towards a woman is a taboo thing, while a woman feeling envy towards a guy seems more intuitively reasonable. I doubt that AGP is heterosexuality lite, bc if that was the case, why the fuck would a heterosexual male ever choose some sort of poorly feminised guy instead of a proper woman? A lot of AGPs report first being attracted to males and then it switches to themselves as woman, but once it switches it never goes back, feminised self always wins. This would make me assume that AGP stems from an essential desire to be a girl/woman and is not a modified version of heterosexuality. The desire becomes sexualized as a result of internalization, repression and testosterone reaching your brain. AGPs only larp as heterosexual, while a lot of their attraction to women is actually envy.
>>41871914CORRECTION>what i've written:A lot of AGPs report first being attracted to males>what i meant:A lot of AGPs report first being attracted to FEMALES
>>41871914>AGPs only larp as heterosexual, while a lot of their attraction to women is actually envy.This is not my experience at all. My desire for women is paramount and the driving force in my sexuality. My agp is more from a desire to get close to women, to have some feminity in my life rather than any envy....that is just not a factor. Of course, I am a true fetishist with no dysphoria whatsoever.
AGP IS BEAUTIFUL HATERS HATE THEMSELVES
>>41872312attraction to women and envy towards women are not exclusionary but they do intertwinefor envy towards women to be sexualized, there must be at least some minor attraction to themfor attraction to women to "flip", there must be at least some envy.
>>41871914me tbhon, not sure im even attracted to women anymore
>>41869019yesh two roads one of acceptance and undoing an embrace of who you are and the other of non acceptance further humiliation or fetishization just be normal and girly it can be hard at first but the everytime you grow more comfy adhering to who you are the more natural it will be jeeeezzzz everyone pink is a pretty color and being soft is nice it’s all just fine good luck everyone yr stupid euphoria boners will go away and you just be in a new norm aligned with your inner self
What is it if -you want to be a girl-you're afraid of girls or you're uninterested to talk to girls-you fantasize about men making the first move and taking charge with you
>>41873209Future Susan's frequenter or happy self-realized transgirlThe choice is yours
>>41872488>there must be at least some envy.fair enough. I do envy their ability to obtain sex.
>>41875020lmao if you want to obtain sex make a grindr account, you can probably obtain it in like half an hour if you're luckybut is this the kind of sex you want?or for women, is their "easy sex" the kind of sex they want? no not really
>>41875232I want to suck dick but I'm afraid of STDs
>>41873209>>41873233This.Because AGP is jard wired in your brain, since the womb.
>>41875299jard
>>41873167That's beautiful
>>41875324>>41875314Autocorrect
>>41875286saliva kills hiv and can get pills to take after sex to reduce risk of the other types massively. every fag has hpv and hsv already mostly asymptomatic so likely includes you already.
>>41875232>if you want to obtain sex make a grindr accountbeen there done that. im old>is this the kind of sex you want?in lieu of nothing else, absolutely. I've explored fully lol.>or for women,sometimes they absolutely do want that. Life isnt and either or proposition.
>>41875345Wat??Saliva kills HIV?Is this Congolese medical advice?
>>41875286I've sucked dozens. all without a condom. never had an std.
>>41875386AIDS foundation advice. you can also just take PrEP if really worried. its hard enough to get hiv from vaginal sex. its just anal thats insane risk.
>>41875384yesand sometimes men absolutely do want random cocks from grindr in their ass every weekend and can get easy sex this waybut yeah i think i get ityou are envious of the ability to obtain the kind of sex you wantfyi if you were socialized to be a woman this wouldnt be the kind of sex you want
>>41875407adding this: its not impossible to catch aids through sucking dick, its just only ever happens when have open bleeding sores and the cum is from someone with immense viral load which doesnt really happen in the west now that antivirals are common.
>>41875403Holy shit
>>41875426I pass.Too risky
>>41875569if you pass then the guys you meet wont be the aids ones.
>>41875420>i think i get itnot quite. the fact that im hypersexual complicated things>this wouldnt be the kind of sex you wantheres the tricky part. I also want cis-het normative sex with women. In fact, its my preference by far. If I could get a female to swing by in 45 minutes and fuck, I would all night and day lol. But most women arent wired that way....so, in lieu of that, im happy to larp as one for horny men...who will swing by in 45 minutes and fuck me. I want to be sexual one way or another. just been a horny little fuck since I was very young lol.
maleness in in it of itself agp and the less male u are the less agp u are i wish i had the full essay i wrote on this during a psychotic episode but my notes app got fucked and it’s gone.
>>41875569>Too riskyyou have a bigger chance of getting a car accident. Stick to married guys. they never have aids lol
>>41875640androgynous male living as a hermit to isolate from men as much as possible rate my agp power level
>>41875640kindaagp is all about desiring to be a womanif you are a woman there's nothing to desire
I experienced male gender socialisation because of my malebrainIf I were truly fem I'd pick up female gender socialisation as a toddler and young child
>>41875597And if I'm a man modder?
>>41875654Do they have a "married" tag on Tinder?
>>41875813then just 2-1-1 prep and doxypep if youre worried. contrary to protocols its fine to use on E.
>>41875776i find it interesting how this board paints truhussieslet's be real trannies you've described are like the 0.1%you must be a gigaluckshit in terms of your family and surroundings for that to happenyou can't just "pick up" socialization, it's imposed on you
>>41875826I thought you wanted sex not to date. Grindr is for sex. I find most of my married men in Grindr
>>41875901theyre always divorced dads when i look.
>>41875934life is for living junior
>>41875901And how do they rationalize cheating?
>>41875751um idk 10/10 bcs u need to socially integrate >>41875775i don’t get it. wanting to be a woman isn’t sexual unless ur a fetishist.
>>41876346>wanting to be a woman isn’t sexual unless ur a fetishist.yes. agp is a fetishised manifestation of the desire to be female
>>41876363doesnt this let aro ace trannies off the hook too much oomfie <3
>>41876363oh yea.do u think extreme obsessions with beauty and idealizations and what other ppl think and ecentricism caused by identity fragmentation, identity based trauma, sa, bpd overlaps, and being on proana spaces since i was 14 is agp?i feel like ive been spiritually raped by the world and corrupted into something i don’t want to be
>>41876363The fact you desire to be female shows you aren't female. If you were female you'd be valid like all those weird liberals say. AGP is the ultimate symbol of a delusional male,
>>41869019Literally the only thing that matters is if you're pretty or not. If you're pretty and trans then I would be docking 0 points from you for being malebrained even if all you do is play stupidass map painter games every day.
>>41876363Kys
>>41876194I let them worry about that. I have no guilt. If it wasnt me wearing their wife's panties, it would be somebody else...
>>41876412AGP is my only form of sexuality. I would be completely devoid of any sexual desire if it wasn't for it.
>>41875325thanks fren :3 my brains rotten and i didn’t reread it 4times since im glad u get it
>>41869348I came to the same conclusion as well, especially >If the same child was allowed to be a girl the same way any cis girl is, it would end up 10 times less AGP (it's AGPness would be in "female range")I've always gotten the feeling that the AGP of post-puberty troons and that of cis women stems from a similar source but it's expressed two different social and biological configurations; in one it's mildly empowering and the other its taboo. I don't believe people who say its exclusively a trans thing because I read a Billie Eilish interview where she talked about jorking to herself in the mirror and everyone just saw it as peculiar but healthy in moderation. AGP porn addicts are a different category that's pretty easy to identify, and I think lumping in everyone else with them is usually done in bad faith.
>>41869348This is the theory I consider true. I had episodes in my childhood where I was upset about my gender. I felt better having friends with girls than with boys, I thought boys were very stupid and aggressive. I felt a kind of guilt and shame for being a boy. Additionally, I had mannerisms that people considered feminine and I learned to suppress them. This was all clearly what culminated in my AGP with the arrival of puberty.>>41871914It is an exclusively heterosexual attraction. The process is feeling attracted to a woman > wanting to be that woman > wanting to have sex with a man. Not the other way around. I, and I believe all pure AGPs, are not romantically attracted to any man. They only serve to reinforce our feminine ego. This is why we masturbate, imagining that we are being fucked, but by no specific man.
>>41869019>it cannot be undoneWhelp, guess I might as well transition!
>>41879412>all pure AGPs, are not romantically attracted to any man.fuck tell this to my stupid brain im crushing on a guy too hard i feel dumb he doesnt even like trannies
>>41879412>>41881023>all pure AGPs, are not romantically attracted to any man.one of the stupidest things about the AGP theory is rejection of the idea of bisexualitylike... ofc you can be attracted both to yourself as a woman and to (other) meni remember there was some paper that attepted to measure how attracted to male bodies are AGPs, HSTS and cis women and they concluded that there's no significant differencewhatever Blanchard et al. call "meta-attraction" is not so suprisingly similar to female sexuality as described by scientsts like Chivers
>>41881076But female sexuality doesn't involve being attracted to yourself. No cis woman, no matter how lesbian, is attracted to her own body. Gay men don't get off to the thought of being men.
>>41881076"agp theory" as Blanchard invented it is obvious nonsense however there is a reality to being AGP which is why trannies attach to it. the reality is that many trannies feel shame for being female and get off to their selves as female. cis women can feel and do the exact same thing but it doesn't matter because they never have to live as men. for this reason there is a tangible mental object of not getting to be a woman in an early age that is traumatic persists for the rest of your life. it is the shame of wanting to be a girl when you're not allowed to. this naturally contradicts Blanchard because he thinks AGP forms and manifests in adulthood. I don't personally consider the sexual shame complex that is also the thing to be ashamed of to be AGP in the way that twitter tourists (and others) describe it but I consider it nevertheless very real. however I believe that nobody truly female really has an internal sense of purity, it is only an external characteristic and that nobody is truly pure, however the ways in which we are impure are different from each other and there are necessarily unique forms of sexual shame and trauma to trannies.I think for me the answer is so what. ignoring the fact that this definition (OP's and others in the thread) doesn't care for the quasi psychoanalytic rationalization of Ray Blanchard and others but instead tries to put words to the emotional content, having this experience and feeling bad about it sometimes doesn't make me feel inherently wrong or really prevent me from having any experiences. there are things I feel wrong and disgusted about, my own masculinized body for certain. I would rather embrace my impure being and nevertheless be beautiful, like a dark angel would rebel against the hypocrisy of divine justice and the powerlessness of that so called God to stop me.
>>41870204man you guys write all this glib nonsense which sounds right on the surface but then you link these retarded books like nevada in the past and when i look at them its written in some down's syndrome language like cheap political crap like BAP makes me suspect trannyism is being pushed as a political agenda
>>41881099>Female sexuality doesn’t involve being attracted to yourselfBro has never talked to a female before LOL
>>41881265no offense but you are retarded if you think the extremely short, certainly not book length story which is a piece of creative writing is supposed to prove anything at all and not simply exist as a form of narrative catharsis for the author and a few readers with whom it resonates in the same way that say, a song would
>>41875232>>41875384>>41875420>>41875901how does the logistics of a grindr hookup work if you're a non trooner and do not want to see the guy unless you're en femme? it's not about sex its about validation
>>41881099>No cis woman, no matter how lesbian, is attracted to her own body.This is an overstatement, have you asked every single female alive? But even if that's the case, meta-attraction doesnt have to necessarily encompass attraction to oneself>Gay men don't get off to the thought of being men.This is also a very risky statement to makeIdk how that's relevant but as i earlier mentioned, I myself have masturbated to my own reflection pre-transition (my reflection was of an adolescent boy, not crossdressing)
>>41873209i feel like my mother's cringetastic personality has completely tainted my view of women despite that she must the person closest to me even though we're not that close i also hate oversocialized people and women are that with gossips and social drama it's tiring because even most men behave like that now i used to pretty much expect girls to make the first move with me when i was younger can you believe the autism as my meta attraction has been flaring up i do think a partnership with a man could fit me like a glove but how gay is that
>>41881268>>41881388If cisfoids got off to being in a female body they'd spend their time masturbating to themselves in the mirror. But only rapehons do that. A real woman makes herself look hot to attract the attention of a mate who she actually finds hot, not because she gets turned on by it.>meta-attraction doesnt have to necessarily encompass attraction to oneselfWhat does it encompass, then?
anyone else feel mef or prison gay rhetoric appeals to them much more than 'oh just a sweet little woman inside' rhetoric the latter is so superficial and not even true and doesn't do justice to the inner turmoil no wonder it breeds trenders
>>41881450I think the black pill for me was that prison gay behavior is extremely common among lesbians who take advantage of the fact that the dating pool is incredibly small in comparison to straight relationships and proceed to act like utter freaks to every woman remotely into themt. bisexual
>>41881099i'm not really attracted to myself either, i'm attracted to a man fucking my female body
>>41881450The whole 'oh I'm just a sweet innocent girl trapped in a man's body!' feels really pervy and I hate it. I am very plainly not a sweet innocent girl. I am a man with a fetish. Roleplaying as a girl trapped in a man's body is wrong. In fact the girl inside me is a parasite, or a demon adopting an innocent expression to try and manipulate me. Every time I get these thoughts I imagine myself kicking the shit out of her until she goes away. It's immensely satisfying.
>>41881485how is it prison gay if she's just a lesbian it's just predatory not prison gay prison gay is when you make a compromise on yourself
>>41881413>If cisfoids got off to being in a female body they'd spend their time masturbating to themselves in the mirror.this gives projection desufor every cisfoid you meet, she might have autosexual tendencies, but she wouldnt brag about it to you, so how can you know?also even if you do enjoy fapping to your reflection this does not exclude the possibility of desiring sex with someone else
>>41881506it's not there is some distinct thing inside that can be kicked out it's just a strange amalgam of things which is definitely not just a woman and saying so also creates animosity with women when you don't need it
>>41881490oh I thought prison gay referred to how being gay is a prison
This isn't real, its just a cope from modern society to castrate feminine men as it doesn't know what to do with them. What evolutionary explanation is for this shit? None. Its made up, based on 'feelings'. Every troon is a depraved pos. Would rather commit suicide than fall prey to this
>>41881862Kys
>>41881862>What evolutionary explanation is for this shit? None.one sentence that instantly tells you that someone treats evolutionary biology as a belief system and not as a science
AGP is hard wired in the brain in the womb.Check mate moralists and trans moralists
>>41883355proof? arguments?
>>41883397Ask grok
>>41881310>how does the logistics of a grindr hookup work if you're a non trooner and do not want to see the guy unless you're en femme?I got lucky cuz I lived a lone in my 20s (and worked from home a lot). So, after proper vetting and comfort levels achieved- I could be dressed and ready on their arrival. But im not very over-the-top sissy- usually just panties and thigh highs, a sexy fem tee or cami maybe a little lipgloss- no wigs, tutus or any bs like that. Sometimes, it was just panties under my jeans. depended a lot on the guy and what he wanted. When I did travel for hook-ups- part of the fun was spending time getting ready in his bathroom while he waited on the other side for me. Some guys buy me stuff to wear for them or want me to wear their wife's stuff...for me the validation wasnt about being femme per se it just about being sexy and desirable. and being able to please a sex partner
>>41883555yeah why are we lurking on here anywaywe could be talking to llms instead
>>41869019Not true + epic bait + being a jeep is a tragically beautiful existence
>>41875623fascinating
>>41869019yeah ok fucking retard.tell me, who is lingerie made for?who enjoys wearing such things?who enjoys getting sexualized?
>>41883597/AGPgen/ died and no one creates another
>>41884091i knowmy post is a lil bit misleading in a way bc it implies that AGP is masculinebut what i meant is that AGP is a result of male socialization and male puberty happening to someone who desires to be a girl
>>41884091+ this
>>41881395>i do think a partnership with a man could fit me like a glove but how gay is thati genuinely hope you can overcome this internalized homophobia! it's not a good colour on you
>>41869019>You weren't born that way, you were made that way. But this isn't good news, you are broken and it probably cannot be undone.so what is the point of this post? if its permanent why would it matter if we were born with it or not?
>>41884387masc x masc stuff is quite disgusting i don't want to be that and that's what your mind ends up thinking because you identify with masculinity even if you're soft but after my stint with low dose hrt i've been left somewhat dramatically different than regular men and sometimes i can look at their coarse hands and be like whoa im not that tough imagine if he forcefully shoved those fingers down my throat right now it's not even that i find them hot but these thoughts just happen because an action like that could potentially validate me as femme
>>41884700>implies that 4chan posts must have a point
>>41884834to me it's pretty obvious that you are (at least partitally) gay. being gay does not mean that you have to harness up and increase your body count by a two digit number every week.you can genuinely live a pretty normal life, be monogamous and have an attractive partner to come home to every day.it's just that in your case, it happens to be a man. there is no need to justify this beyond>it's what i want and we make each other happyif you don't want any of that gay shit, you can of course also just get some rough hands down your throat any time of day. the world is your oyster anon
>>41869285theres plenty of vids on /gif/ right now of people doing both simultaneouslythis isnt some vague threat/encouragement, I mean that literally
AGP is beautiful
>>41885542fuckyou reminded me that gif existsand i went thereand i regretnow i have to proceed with life somehowthank u retard
>>41881545I'd have seen something about it online. People tell you everything online. If cisfoids were turned on by the idea of being women, they would have mentioned it. Instead, they enjoy being the object of desire for a masculine man. All female clothing is designed for men.>>41881609For me it's a distinct thing inside. I can clearly identify the moment she latched on to my brain for her own selfish needs. There is me and there is her, and she needs to die.
>>41881545>this does not exclude the possibility of desiring sex with someone elseOkay, but they still get off to their own feminine self. Which means it's a dirty fetish and not a legitimate identity.
>>41886469>If cisfoids were turned on by the idea of being women, they would have mentioned it. Not necessarily1 of 7 men have admitted to ever masturbating in a public bathroom, yet this isn't something people really talk about online, probably bc it's shameful and kinda boring. Same could go for autosexual behaviours, like masturbating to your own image (as it is, not genderswapped). You can find some anecdotal evidence which is some random reddit confessions of people doing things like masturbating to their reflections or fantasizing about having sex with their clones but this is not enough to be able to tell how many people actually do this, it could be like 0.01% or 20%, but we don't really have any data.Or maybe we do, bc there's this Bailey 2022 study where a noticeable minority of cis women have scored at least 5/8 on the AGP scale, where 5 is told by Blanchard to be the average score for an AGP tranny.Also the fact that women's clothes are designed for le male gaze doesn't mean that women enjoy it only because it grants them male validation. Women have been having rights for like a century now and we still believe that their sexuality is just being passive and having no own taste or desire for anything
>>41886792yeah gaze of the opposite sex is an idea abstractly known to everyone it's like when we maxx our appearance we're automatically making it for the other sex's gaze since we're cast from the same basic human mold just opposite poles
>>41885096nah i don't want to be romantic with either men or women too jaded for that i could use some friendship and support though but yeah they should go ahead and take advantage of me for very basic companionship like degrading sex and whatnot i deserve it i'll even cook for them afterwards and words like homo, fag etc degrading nicknames should be hammered into my head because my agp indulgence is showing in my soft appearance and it's not like anyone cares if you're agp or gap "hey what are you doing in the women's section are you gay" should be welcome statements better than being a creep right haha
>>41886792Okay but it's a little suspicious that not a single woman has ever admitted to it online, right? I could find a man admitting to masturbating in a public bathroom if I looked. I've never found a woman admitting she gets turned on by the idea of being a woman. >have scored at least 5/8 on the AGP scaleI need to see that study. I don't believe you.>women have been having rights for like a century now Women couldn't open bank accounts within living memory.
>>41869019Que ?
>>41869019Agreed but another crucial facet is autism. Trannies are autistic males whose minds have been utterly fried by porn. They have no understanding of societal mores and especially no understanding of women.
I wanna be girl
>>41888159>Okay but it's a little suspicious that not a single woman has ever admitted to it online, right?Really? Have you checked the entire internet? I didn't, yet I found something Kinda cringe to quote posts from r/askagp buy i think that these will be the most accurate. Finding more will be your homework, you defo haven't even tried> I could find a man admitting to masturbating in a public bathroom if I looked. And yet you didn't even try, just like you didn't even try to find any cis women's autosexual confessions. You just assume what you think you would find instead of actually doing the "research".>I need to see that study. Same here, you didnt even try to look that up. "Bailey 2022" is enough to find it, but if you need more details, the title of the study was something along the lines of "how autogynephilic are natal females?". Please be careful with only reading conclusions, blanchardists aren't that known for their good faith, focus on the data and draw your own conclusions.
>>41888159
>>41891201Another example lol
>>41888159oh and this one goes hard
>>41891207THIShow stupid one must be to straight up assume that 0% of cis women are attracted to their own bodies?women have their sexualities and their sexualities have some peculiarities. female sexuality in general is so underresearched and there are so many common myths and stereotypes about it
>>41888159>>41891201>>41891207"Ladies" and gentlemen, let me suggest a gameWhat if you went to one of those gooner chatroulettes and tried to find as many females who would admit to their AGP-esque behaviours (masturbating to your pics/reflection, arousal from wearing lingerie, fantasizing about faceless men etc.) as possible during like 1 hour or so? I know that it always could be a man larping but there are ways to tell if you're actually talking to a female by asking things only females knowI am genuinely curious but idk if I want to do this myself
>>41891785who the fuck cares women are not self aware anyway it's about our unique experiences not theirs
The people here probably wont want to hear this but what cured me of my AGP was realizing and accepting the unique, healthy, noble, and aspirational facets of being a man. These are things that are generally not taught or refered to as attributes of masculinity anymore because its offensive and exclusionary to women to imply that things like justice, bravery, responsibility, and rationality are inherently masculine and also inherently beautiful.I recognize that the civilizational moral framework and current gender dynamics and are completely broken and diverted from their natural state so personal effort just had to be put in to shore up those holes. I do still relapse every now and then and do wish I could indulge my fantasies, but it has become much more infrequent and something I can actually live happily with.
>>41891201>picrelThese are from askagp. They are 100% men rubbing one out while they type. Check responses from any real women and they'll be along the lines of 'ew, no, go fuck yourself.' >And yet you didn't even try,I don't need to try, because they freely admit to it. Check any askreddit thread about 'where's the weirdest place you've jacked off' and they basically see masturbating in a public bathroom as a milquetoast thing. Although it is a sex crime so it's not making AGPs look too good. >"how autogynephilic are natal females?" The abstract literally says 'Our findings refute the contention that autogynephilia is common among natal females.' I can't access the main document but I don't trust my ability to read data better than the people who literally made the study. Their study shows that women are not attracted to themselves and do not enjoy being in a female body. Besides, even if they are 'autogynephilic,' they're cis women. They can get off to it all they like. It's nothing like me choosing to become a mockery them like some sort of weird Buffalo Bill type, so I can invade their lives and practice my weird sexual fetishes around them. What reason do I have to troon other than for sexual purposes? I could never go out in public again.
>>41869029>>41869039Chromosomal internshits think their condition destroys all transphobic arguments (while at the same time being proud they aren’t XY, which validates their delusions of never really being a man lol)so they like to bring it up a lot. even when it’s completely irrelevant.Similar behavior to AFAB transmascs who get mistaken for trans women. Funny to see how selfish some queers can be the moment they have a chance at acceptance.
>>41894603https://www.genderpsychology.org/autogynephilia/male_gender_dysphoria/autogynephilic_fetishism.htmlIt's literally asking these questions which is a bit weird since "while picturing yourself as a woman", as if cis women are not almost always picturing themselves as women. With such logic transitioning cures AGP as I don't picture me as a woman, I picture me as myself.
>>41891201>>41891205>>41891205>>41891205>>41891207>>41891216Thanks anon.It's beautiful seeing cis girls experience the same as me
>>41894603Go be miserableIm rooting for you
>>41894603>These are from askagp. They are 100% men rubbing one out while they type. So if someone says they are a woman and describes their AGP behaviour online, then it's a man, but if someone says they are a woman and criticizes AGP behaviour, they are true women? You can't just assume someone's true sex online based on their takes. There's no real way to tell how many of women's sexual confessions online are actually men larping. But certainly not all of them. >Check responses from any real women and they'll be along the lines of 'ew, no, go fuck yourself.'False. r/askagp is technically a "support group", you don't really find people being "AGP-phobic" there, unless it's AGPs hating on themselves. And when you check any of these posts when a woman unknowingly mentions an AGP behaviour of herself, she usually gets comments from other women saying that it's normal and healthy. To me this just shows the double standard. Only because there is some sort of assumption of bad intentions males are shamed way more for something that would in practice be the exact same behaviour.>I can't access the main document, so I'm just gonna trust the people who literally made the study, because why would I ever verify data and reasoning behind someone a blanchardist grifter's claims? I'm just gonna believe them that their study shows that women are not attracted to themselves and do not enjoy being in a female body.You don't just trust Bailey. As explained by surveyanon (https://surveyanon.wordpress.com/2022/12/27/michael-bailey-doubles-down-on-his-lies-%f0%9f%a4%a3/), Bailey is a fraud. The article I linked also mentions methodological flaws within the study I've quoted. But, fyi, the conclusion stated in the abstract is wrong, from the data you can clearly see that, although natal females are not majority AGP, they are still noticeably more AGP than natal males. to be continued
>>41894877Yeah but it makes sense for them to do that because they're actually women. They have no choice to fantasise about having sex as women, they just fantasise about having sex.But if I were to troon out, then it would just be modifying my body for a fetish. They would have to accept me as a woman knowing full well why I did it. And I would have to go out in public in this body which I had twisted for my disturbing fetishes.I have no right to make myself into one of them and imagine myself as one of them. I should imagine myself as a man. That's a normal thing to do and it's how I should be having sex. My male body does not exist for a fetish.
>>41895473So if you "accidentally" transitioned instead of doing it willingly, you would be allowed to fantasize about sex? Hell, there are women who fantasize about having a dick too, not even that uncommon.I think you are mystifying women too much, do you really think you owe your body to them? Obviously don't have to be weird about it but as long as you don't go harassing women, who cares?
>>41895557No, I would still be malebrained. To fantasise would be to take twenty years of male socialisation and use it to look at women. I wouldn't have the upbringing of a girl that lets them live in those bodies. I'd be a perverted invader.
>>41892977repking. good luck to you.never rep btw
>>41895557I wouldn't want some big hulking 7 foot bodybuilder to enter into my spaces and look at me sexually. It would be violating. I don't have a right to force my fetishes on them.
AGP is innate. You can't change it. It's hard wired in your brain..why hate it?Just respect others and don't rub it on everyone's faces and enjoy it freely. It was created before your conscious mind, with no malice.
>>41894603I'm sorry for my screenshot being so poor quality, it's taken from another screenshot of my 4chan post from half a year ago (if you remember one certain quirky namefag who argued about blanchard, yes, that's me). Red histograms are crosdressers, Blue are males, black are females. The bins of those histograms are from left to right: 0, 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8. You can notice that, surely, ~50% of women got 0, but there is a noticeable minority of women that scored more.To me it seems like people engaged in AGP discourse try to come up with some method to measure AGP and apply it to cis women to determine if AGP is something in the realm of "normal female sexuality", but when it turns out that too many women respond "yes" to these questions, they always say shit like "oh, this doesn't actually measure AGP".>even if they are 'autogynephilic,' they're cis women. They can get off to it all they like.And trannies can do that too. This is one of the most harmless sexual quirks and it should not be shamed unless it causes real harm to others.>invade their livesoh poor innocent womb haver can't handle a tranny in her bathroom, how is she gonna survive this? imagine self-seething that hard. I do hate myself too but damn...>>41894877True, but I assme these questions would be somehow readjusted, like 1st question could be rephrased as "Have you ever become sexually aroused while contemplating your nude female body or certain features of your nude female form?"the entire notion of AGP is kind of stupid, bc you would expect a tranny to identify as a woman, and therefore to want to have sex as a woman. Since female body is not the default for trannies, you would also expect them to put extra focus into imagining themselves as women during fantasies in order to override perceived reality of having a male body.
>>41895371>You can't just assume someone's true sex online based on their takes.You can. That's the whole point of female/male socialisation. I can clock someone based on the way they speak and act and so can you, if you look hard enough. It is simply not in women's culture to be that depraved. I look at them in a way they could never conceive. I've spoken to pooners and the way they act just reinforces my point.>Only because there is some sort of assumption of bad intentionsBut there is, though. To sexualise someone is inherently degrading. To force yourself into their culture so you can sexualise it on yourself is even worse. I'm too large and crude and hulking and dirty to ever enter into female spaces. Even if I had the purest intentions it would be like a bull in a china shop.>they are still noticeably more AGP than natal malesYou can't say that without a test for statistical significance. It could just be random noise.
AGP IS BEAUTIFUL
>>41895284I don't think they experience the same. They are (almost) never taught by society that being feminine is wrong, they never experience the surge of testosterone that turns them into sex pests, they never have to put that much mental effort into imagining themselves as a version of themself they are not, they femaleness, even if they enjoy it, is the default to them.>>41895473>They have no choice to fantasise about having sex as women, they just fantasise about having sex.therefore by measuring cis AGP one should rather ask oneself how much do women focus on their own femininity while experiencing their sexuality. It is true that women do fantasize about sex while being women, but they don't necessarily pay that much attention to their own femaleness as a potential source of arousal. Or maybe they do because if we take into account things that are considered feminine yet are not necessarily the default for women, like for example wearing lingerie, we will find out that a lot of women find wearing lingerie arousing. >They would have to accept me as a woman knowing full well why I did it.>I have no right to make myself into one of them and imagine myself as one of them.No, why? Other people are not entitled to knowing about your anatomy, your past, your sexual quirks etc.>it's how I should be having sexThere's no "should". Sex is all about fulfilling your stupid ass desires, why don't you pursue doing that in a way that would make you happy? Jeez there's no need to be so sorry for existence
>>41895614You are invading your own body that is literally male and thus invading women? How does that even make sense. I'm not arguing you have to go to women's bathrooms or something.
>>41895784Well, not all cis girls are agp.Some are.Because AGP is a neuronal condition
>>41895687>You can.only to some extent, you can estimate the probability but you can never be sure. You literally have reasoning level of a flat earther, if something disproves your preconceived worldview the you just assume it must be fake.>It is simply not in women's culture to be that depraved. Why do males assume all women to be asexual or passive? Women are not otherworldly creatures. Women don't have different kinds of souls. Women can enjoy sex. Women do have weird sexual quirks. Women are very different between each other when it comes to their sexualities. Women can be depraved. And honestly i don't even have any idea how an I prove this to you in an ethical way, whatever I'll show you, you're gonna tell me it's fake anyway. I'd assume that for you any woman saying anything kinky online is just a man larping and that there's no women online, it's just 50% cis men and 50% agp men larping as women>To sexualise someone is inherently degrading.this is not wrong if you do this in your head and don't break any actual irl boundaries>You can't say that without a test for statistical significance. It could just be random noise.Sure. I have no idea how to test that, I don't know the math behind it, but if you think this conclusion from given data is wrong, then go ahead, find me a study with a greater N value that finds women to be less AGP than this dataset shows. Spoiler, there is none.
>>41869019I was for sure agp before puberty. I got a stiffy from these books in first grade about someone who changes bodies
>>41895908>Because AGP is a neuronal conditionhowproof and arguments pls?i always hate it how people engaged in agp discourse will argue if agp is a fetish, a sexuality, a condition, a paraphilia etc.like how does that matter and how does it help us?AGP is attraction to oneself as femaleor arousal from the idea of being femaleit's a sexuality quirk, an arousal patternand it's something different than anything we know about
Read modern romantasy novels and tell me that women are magically passive/non-sexual creatures. Reverse harems, powerful 6 ft + built magic men, all sorts of things. They might not be as loud as men about sexuality normally but they really open up when they are amongst eachother on BookTok and reading clubs.
>>41896091my cis gf tells me about her other friends' sexual experiences and its sometimes unreal to me the shit they talk about. cis girls can be insanely fetishistic, much more so then men in some cases. to me it feels like they are much better at hiding that compared to men because of social stigma etc.
>>41896091>>41896120>They might not be as loud as men about sexuality normally>they are much better at hiding that compared to menYes there are 2 main reasons:1. not to attract to many weird male pervs2. not to get slutshamed
>>41896091Every romantasy novel is about powerful, attractive men acting upon the bland female self-insert protagonist. It's not an expression of AGP or active sexuality. The sexuality is done to them by an attractive man, and they just sort of let it happen. Male fantasies are active against the object of desire. In the same way, AGP is an active fetish rather than a passive one.
>>41895968dude the whole “is AGP a condition / paraphilia / sexuality / whatever” debate is the most pointless circlejerk in trans history lmaolike congrats you spent 5 years arguing semantics while the rest of us were just putting on cute panties on and living our lives at the end of the day it’s literally just:“my brain goes brrrrr and my clit gets hard when i feel correctly girled”that’s it. that’s the whole phenomenon.call it a sexuality quirk, call it a “neuronal condition”, call it tuesday, idgaf. the label doesn’t change the lived reality:- it feels fucking amazing - it’s been there since we were kids stealing our sister’s tights - it gets less intense for most of us once we actually live as women 24/7 (second puberty does its thing) - it never once made any of us less of a womanso yeah, it’s “different than anything we know about” because science still sucks at studying trans people without pathologizing us. big whoop.meanwhile cis girls get randomly horny from wearing heels or hearing someone call them “good girl” and nobody writes a 50-page paper calling it a disorder.so let’s all just agree it’s a thing that happens, it’s harmless, it feels great, and move on with our lives.touch grass, buy prettier panties, love yourself. the end
>>41896187i love you
>>41896187>science still sucks at studying trans people without pathologizing usDysphoria is a disease, man. What are they supposed to do?'Oh no my doctor keeps pathologising smallpox patients whatever will we do?'I want them to pathologise me. Maybe they'll find a cure instead of just affirming me all the time.
>>41896223nta but autism is a condition too and there are highly functioning autists, same can be said for a lot of other conditionswhat kind of a cure you are looking for exactly? you can live in peace with yourself too with what you are
>>41891785damn, "get an agp confession any%" challenge really wasnt that hard
>>41896252Something to kill the part of my brain that tells me to do this. Or the parasite that's latched onto this. Whatever weird mutation has fucked me up this bad. I don't want to John50.
>>41896221Thanks baby. I love you too
>>41895784>they don't necessarily pay that much attention to their own femaleness as a potential source of arousalSo they aren't AGP. They just happen to be women and have a sex drive. Anyone who needs to be a woman to get off is a fetishist, not a tranny. They find wearing lingerie arousing because they know it'll provoke a man into having sex with them.>No, why?Because they can tell. They can all tell, and they know exactly what I'm doing. There's a guy in London who wraps himself in a roll of carpet so people will step on him in public places. Is that valid? Should he be allowed to get away with that, or should he show restraint?>>41895825I'm invading the concept of a female body. It doesn't belong on someone who treats it so pervertedly. It should belong to someone who isn't a weirdo. I wouldn't want someone to dress up like me and masturbate. It's a mockery of their existence.
>>41896538>It doesn't belong on someone who treats it so pervertedly. should all prostitutes and camgirls be forcefully masculinized?
>>41896617No, because they need to do it to make money. They don't enjoy it. And they do it gracefully in a way a man could never.
>>41896661>No, because they need to do it to make money. so, if you needed it and was offered to transition for money, would it be then morally justified?>They don't enjoy it.some do. not all of these women do that out of necessity. but obviously you assume that a woman is not capable of enjoying anything sexual.>And they do it gracefully in a way a man could never.wtf no, this is such a pornbrained take. sw is filth.
>>41896698>would it be then morally justified?I mean I could never pass, so it would be a very grotesque and body-horror sort of pornography. But I'd still be appropriating women's bodies for my own ends. If I wanted money I could work in a factory or something.>a woman is not capable of enjoying anything sexual.I believe female sexuality is inherently passive. She enjoys having things done to her, by a man. A woman's preferred sexuality has very little agency. Using her body to get money is just a job, and nobody likes their job.>this is such a pornbrained take.Well yeah I've got AGP. It comes with the territory. But a woman is elegant and graceful in a way a man could never be. It's like someone doing doughnuts in a sports car. If they gave it to me I would just drive it into a wall.
>>41897012dude you clearly have ocdpls take your meds
>>41897012also making such judgements based on appearance only shows how superficial you are
>>41884305i don't think that changes much. my argument is that your claim is bullshit.both trannies and women get aroused from wearing sexy stuff, being women, being perceived as a woman, and having sex in feminine clothes.male socialization is not necessary for this.
>>41896253>Username agrarian jerkin>Name SophieThat woman wasn't cis lol
agp is the result of gynephilia mixed with a recurrent stream of media making boys feel comfortable self insert with female charactersThe whole "avatarization" of people in the internet was a massive funnel towards agp.Videogames and so forth largely contributed to feeding the idea.If you find yourself too comfortable with feminity you are a latent agpoid.
>>41895924>only to some extentNot true. You underestimate how hard it is to adopt the other side's socialisation. Tomboys still act like girls. Femboys still act like boys. Growing up as one sex makes you think and act a certain way. Some things women could never conceive of, and vice versa.>Women can enjoy sex. Women do have weird sexual quirks.Yes but in a different way to men. That's the whole point. Go on pornhub and see all the porn targeted at men. Now compare it to something like Fifty Shades. The way men and women experience sexuality, no matter how freaky, is inherently different. For one thing, men are simpler and more visual. Which is a major factor in autogynephilia.>this is not wrong if you do this in your headI'm not doing it in my head. I'm dressing up as a woman. And even if I did keep it inside, just knowing that someone had masturbated to the thought of imitating me would make me feel violated.I don't know how to do a statistical test, but without one a study isn't valid.
>>41897133>Username agrarian jerkinchitchat randomly generates such weird names>Name Sophiethat's a fairly common name
>>41897012you think too much about other people and what you imagine they're thinkingtransition is not appropriating someone else's body, it's choosing to inhabit your own bodymeditate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>41892977as a third worlder this has already been my attitude from the beginning even before being aware of my agp the thing is even thinking in the most masculine of ways you still have like a dozen other external signs and tells and easily come across as a bitch to others and if you were to do some tryhard masc shit it would be cringe and trooning is out of the question its like you're fucked if you do something and you're fucked if you don't do anything
AGP IS BEAUTIFUL Hons seething
>>41895636i feel like if i let my hair grow a bit long, pluck the face hair and clean the eyebrows and keep a slender body i'm still rubbing it in people's face because people will comment on them quickly
