should self-ID be illegal? there is a strong correlation with self ID and transphobia.
>>41902911>there is a strong correlation with self ID and transphobia.do you wanna provide proof or anything to that or nah?
>>41902911Are you retarded? This is an anti-correlation with transphobia
>>41902911You made this bait thread yesterday, jeetbot.
>>41903073first jurisdiction on earth to allow self ID was Argentine in 2012. after that we saw a wave of transphobia, with optics nukes like Houston Proposition 2 2015, were they argued cis male perverts would lie and say they were self ID trans. When SRS was mandatory, you didn’t see optics nukes like now.
>>41902911Self-id is shit because it is the final step in the appropriation of transness by theyfabs and other cissoids. In an ideal world self-id would be good for real trans people, but the reality is that it mostly benefits cis people with pronouns. It also allows governments to do virtue signaling without having to give trannies any actual support like healthcare. Fuck self-id.
>>41903081>This is an anti-correlation with transphobiaself id is being revoked everywhere
I don't see how self-id actually benefits trannies. it's way more important to have laws guaranteeing access to hrt, access to surgeries, and the right to change your birth certificate after a fair degree of medical transition. Self-id only benefits cissex larpers, while at the same time making actual trans people look like gender abolitionists who don't believe in biological sex and stuff like that.
>>41903480Self-ID benefits people early in transition, those who can't medically transition (ex: have a friend whose Crohn's gets significantly worse on HRT), and reduces paperwork confusion by being a fairly unambiguous policy.
>>41903494it provides a very minor benefit, as people early in transition can just wait until they're later in transitionI think there could be allowances for people who don't medically transition, but full self-id is too much of an extreme policy, and turns being trans from "when you have gender dysphoria" to "when you say you're trans"
>>41903494you are undermining and removing the sacrifice those who had to sterilize / SRSto change their genders. there should be two categories: those in transition and those transitioned or post opt
>>41903494your a retard self id fucks us over
>>41903519Oh I disagree with self-ID as is, but it's important to be clear about who it serves (which also includes the unfortunate neverpasser). >>41903532This is fucking stupid. SRS status as a legal factor just pushes people to get shitty SRS results for cheap and clogs up wait times for good surgeons.
>>41903199>slopfuck off
Legal sex change is a courtesy granted to enable passing, assimilated transsexuals to have privacy. Non-passers do not need it.
>>41903562> This is fucking stupid. SRS status as a legal factor just pushes people to get shitty SRS results for cheap and clogs up wait times for good surgeons.1. average srs costs 3,000 dollars + private insurance. 2. SRS has advantaged radically in last few decades. just make sure you got the best process to do it. nothing here indicates self id is good or srs is bad. we could have socialized healthcare worldwide with srs funded and best trained doctors on earth and you would still make excuses
someone could be a never passer hon, if they got SRS, they are legally a women
>>41903592$3,000 SRS is gonna give you shitty results. Sorry nona. It also doesn't solve the issue of many doctors using horrifically outdated standards. We can't even trust the majority of providers not to hondose, and surgery isn't exactly reversible.
>>41903597You cannot be a woman in any functional sense if you are not perceived as female by others.
>>41903480>I don't see how self-id actually benefits trannies.we still live in a world where official medical gatekeepers will deny you HRT based on you not honmoding to the appointment in many countries. we still live in a world in which some countries require sterilization by which they not only mean destruction of the ability to produce gametes but destruction of any preserved gametes.self-ID and informed consent/DIY HRT are absolutely an improvement for trans people. in principle, you could have a system which acknowledges your physical transition even if you didn't go through official medical gatekeepers, while not recognizing full self-ID. to my knowledge this kind of system has never existed anywhere in the world and is unlikely to ever exist anywhere in the world. self-ID gets you all of its benefits while requiring less work on the state's part.
>>41903601With good insurance, less than $10k can get you vaginoplasty with a top US surgeon.
>>41903607if you got long hair, make up, nail polish, and neovagina, you are not a women.
>>41903619And what do you think happens to those costs and wait times if it becomes mandated to receive SRS for legal recognition?
>>41903613> we still live in a world where official medical gatekeepers will deny you HRT based on you not honmoding to the appointment in many countries.DIY> we still live in a world in which some countries require sterilization by which they not only mean destruction of the ability to produce gametes but destruction of any preserved gametes.Freeze and preserve sperm >self-ID and informed consent/DIY HRT are absolutely an improvement for trans people.for some, for most its a disaster and leading to more privatization and neoliberalism of trans healthcare. after all, no longer required>in principle, you could have a system which acknowledges your physical transition even if you didn't go through official medical gatekeepers, while not recognizing full self-ID. already purposed two ids, transitioning peoples and post ops>to my knowledge this kind of system has never existed anywhere in the world and is unlikely to ever exist anywhere in the worldlobby for it>self-ID gets you all of its benefits while requiring less work on the state's part.and leading to more transpobia and cutting trans healthcare. the bigots are against sterilization and SRS laws
>>41903642follow Iran
srs is out gay marriage and self-ID is the civil unions of the trans movement.
>>41903663What do you think the average quality of Iranian SRS is?
>>41903725NO COUNTRY WILL EVER HAVE PERFECT SRS EVER, QUALITY IS RELATIVETHE POINT IS GET MOER TRAINED DOCTORS AND MORE FUNDING, NOT BAN SRS
>>41903630I only have one of those (the neovagina), yet I am socially and functionally a woman. You saying "no ur not" doesn't change that.
>>41903790>i have a neovagina>i am a womenthat is what i said
>>41903801No it isn't.
>>41903809Im aruging that it doesn’t matter how honnish you look, if you got a neovagina you are a women
>>41903824You wrote in >>41903630>if you got long hair, make up, nail polish, and neovagina, you are not a women.
>>41903855sorry i meant you ARE a women. typo
>>41902911Self ID should be banned yes. It should all be based on passability. SRS doesn’t even matter.
>>41902911>should self-ID be illegal?Yes
>>41902911self id should only be illegal for afabs if they cant prove they have severe gender dysphoria.
>>41903864Am I a woman if I have short hair, no makeup, no nail polish, and a neovagina?
>>41902911(You)
>>41904300hey she has the female butch phenotype Though...
>>41904334How does one prove having gender dysphoria? There's no medical test for it.
>>41904345HE only started identifying as trans about 5 or 6 years into HIS 22 year sentence though.
>>41902911Jewish thread
>>41904346idk one could start by Actually wanting to become the gender they claim to be, which most "transmascs" at a large dont seem to do?>>41904372based
>>41904582Should I not have been allowed to transition? I didn't hate having a male body. I just have androgen insensitivity and testosterone works only weakly for me.
>>41904605nonono transitioning should be legal for any kind of mtf because its always justifiable even if the typical kind of dysphoria isnt present. since, as you can probably see, they arent as prone to appropriate labels in the way that theyfabs do. they are less privileged, and thus deserve this type of care more than those who are otherwise just cis/weaponize their labels and agab.>I didn't hate having a male body.also i would kind of doubt this desu. even if you didnt thoroughly hate it, its clear that you decided having a female body would be much more favorable. this is something that doesnt seem to be as prevalent in the case of transmascs like op pic, and especially not as they try to stay as far away as possible from being socially perceived as male.
>>41904651I predicted that being socially female would probably be more successful for me, but to make that happen I needed a female body, hence medical transition.I never said anything about body dysphoria to the clinician who diagnosed me. I said only that I wanted to be a woman because I felt that role would fit me better.
>>41904671exactly, which is good and thats what matters. what we dont need though is anymore afab detransitioners who could potentially make all of it inaccessible altogether.
>>41904272the neovagina is what makes you a women. having it is all you need to prove your womenhood. a penis is not viewed by most people as women.
>>41903613>we still live in a world where official medical gatekeepers will deny you HRT based on you not honmoding to the appointment in many countriesyeah but that doesn't have anything to do with self-idI think hrt should be available without a prescription, which has nothing to do with self-id>we still live in a world in which some countries require sterilization by which they not only mean destruction of the ability to produce gametes but destruction of any preserved gametes.yeah again nothing to do with self-id. I don't agree with the reasoning behind demanding sterilization, but I do agree with some amount of medical transition being necessary for legal sex change. Informed consent is a great policy for trans people, but self-id of non-transsexuals is being used as a justification to remove rights from actual transsexuals. In germany recently the government stopped paying for trans surgeries because nonbinary people demanded equal treatment. Now you don't need surgery to change your legal sex, but because of that the government won't fund surgeries as they're no longer necessary to change your legal sex. In america, the identity of genderfluid people was used as a justification to claim that gender identity was not innate and unchangeable, therefore being trans is not an innate and unchangeable characteristic. The whole trans umbrella idea, self-id, and gender identity have been overall bad for the rights of transsexuals, and have only really benefited people who want to claim to be trans without needing to have dysphoria or wanting to transition. We should go back to the times of "women trapped in a man's body", and "sex change" surgeries, instead of "males who identify as women". It is the argument of medical transition and neurological dysphoria that convinces cis people, because it is an argument for an innate apolitical state of being, unlike self-id which comes across as word games and cope to normal people.
>>41904915>a penis is not viewed by most people as women.it should desu
>>41905495>yeah but that doesn't have anything to do with self-id>yeah again nothing to do with self-id. I don't agree with the reasoning behind demanding sterilization, but I do agree with some amount of medical transition being necessary for legal sex change.the alternative to self-id is "medical gatekeepers decide if you are allowed to have your paperwork changed"guess what happens if you haven't been getting your healthcare through the official gatekeepers under a regime like that!
>>41906200Your paperwork by virtue of being an authoritative designation is always going to be gatekept by some medical or political authority, so it's just a matter of picking your poison. In my view, the results of self-ID kind of speak for themselves. Nobody is calling for RLE humiliation rituals, which are on the way out regardless, but some kind of medical condition to legal status which as others point out makes a case for trans healthcare to be covered by insurance.
