>prior to 2009, every country on earth that had legal gender marker change either required SRS or medical diagnosis>after 2009, self identification is now legal in 32 countries and 38 states and DC in USA and Mexico>after self id becomes the norm, privatization of trans healthcare and rise in transphobia happens.
>>41917941https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Questionable_cause
>>41917959Who is more respected in society, a trans person who undergoes the hormones and the surgery and goes though the effort or a cross dresser who claims they are trans though self identification?
>>41917977That is utterly irrelevant.
>>41917986What is stopping a cis man from declaring themselves trans and going around as a cis man and invading women's spaces? By removing the SRS requirement you are putting undo burden on society over who is trans.Trans women don't want men in their spaces.
>>41917941wtf is even the implication here???>>41918047>What is stopping a cis man from declaring themselves trans and going around as a cis man and invading women's spaces?what is uniquely incentivizing a cis man to do this?they might rape someone? ok?? like thats ever stopped a moid before
>>41918047>What is stopping a cis man from declaring themselves [sic] trans and going around as a cis man and invading women's spaces?The same thing that was stopping him from so doing prior to 2009: nothing.>Trans women don't want men in their spaces.You are sexist.
>>41918066what if they don’t? what if a cis man does it cause he’s a pervert? what is stopping him under self id? nothing. under srs or medical diagnosis they would be forced out of women’s spaces. trans women who struggled for srs should not have to be on the same level as self id
>>41918100You support segregation of public spaces. You are sexist.
>>41918093> The same thing that was stopping him from so doing prior to 2009: nothing.>sexisti have a friend who is mtf and that is what they told me. they don’t want to share bathrooms with men due to how disgusting they are with hygiene and history of sexual assault by men.
hmmm, i wonder if there was some kind of astroturf movement funded by unimaginably wealthy republican capitalists with the express purpose of pushing against democratic & progressive causes, such as growing LGBTQ support, during the 1st obama administration started around the same time?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movementnah, im sure it was a coincidence.
>>41918117gender abolitionism is transphobia
>>41918138wrongtea party was libertarian oriented and was pro-LGBT. there was fake tea parties, but the grass roots one was not bigoted and rooted in limited government and freedom
>>41918093> The same thing that was stopping him from so doing prior to 2009: nothing.you could tell them to leave or have a police officer escort them outnow with self id you literally can’t. the perverts cis men claiming to be trans have license now
>>41918047forcing SRS is stupid though, its a hell of an ordeal to go through and a lot (if not most) trannies don't hate their willy enough to go through with it but are still much happier being trannies
>>41918192those are transvesites. not trannies. basically cross dresser if they want keep their penis. women don’t have penises.
>>41918160>was pro-LGBTlol>the grass roots onelol
>>41918184This could be solved with a doctors note, i don't think any one procedure should be what decides it but a note saying "this person has put in the effort to integrate and won't just be using it as an excuse" is probably all you need. A lot of trannies even handle hormones on their own without a prescription and they do just fine so you can't even use a prescription for the purpose.I'm pretty sure actual problems caused by self ID laws have been quite low anyways, there are actual problems in the world.
>>41918228I mean, tranny can be a shortening of both, but the line between transvestite and transexual is sort of medically obsolete because the course of action for both is really quite similar and a lot of people take years to know if they will get the surgery or not. Its easier to just lump all of us in as one big thing and leave SRS as a smaller component of it.
>>41918229tea party was a response to bush era neoconservatism and ultra social conservatism gone out of control. it was started in 2007 by ron paul. not 2009. it was supposed to reform gop to be more socially liberal fiscally conservative. than trump came in and killed it.
>>41918254Transvestites are just crossdressers and don't even get HRT
>>41918192>>41918228forcing srs is extreme, forcing hrt is reasonablethere should at least be an expectation of some degree of medical transition
>>41918254there are women getting srs at 18
>>41918280> forcing srs is extreme for most of the 20th and 21st century it wasn’t. it was considered progressive and forward thinking.
>>41918280HRT *or* a doctor's note regarding not being able to take HRT (for the rare few that have medical complications that make it nonviable)
>>41918277I read some old tranny books, at least one doctor did find that some "transvestites" managed to live as women full time and prescribed them HRT even if he diden't class them as wanting or needing SRS.I know some people just do it as a hobby though and yeah that's kind of irrelevent to this discussion, if your not seeking medical help or trying to full time it then your just having fun.
>>41918304Forced SRS was more progressive than no SRS at all but it's regressive compared to having a choice. Progress isn't stagnant.
>>41918280Maybe for MTF's but for FTM's they pass better without HRT and it has far more medical risk. Also there are a lot of DIYers who do just fine so its hard to document exactly who is on HRT.
>>41918340Hormone tests work for DIYers
>>41918351Ok fair enough, that would work.The second question though, has self ID actually caused any problems? Or are you just going to create more taxpayer funded positions to prevent a rape every 5 years.
>>41917941phantom variable of more publicity trans people. people who normally didn't care enough to vote on it are now seeing more trans people and are angry.
>>41918369Self ID has the occasional bad actor. I don't think there really is a good policy for everyone, though.
>>41918407I mean yeah its obvious how it can go wrong but I don't actually know if all these hormone tests and bathroom laws pass the cost benefit analysis.Big government is big government after all.
>>41918369>has self ID actually caused any problemsnot necessarily, but I think it's generally bad for the social perception of trans people
>>41918422True but i think the jewish psyop has been worse lol
>>41918418Oh they're absolutely a mess. It's about finding something that best protects trans people. Unfortunately, in many countries the government is not our friend.
>>41918434depending on the cost of blood testing ever mtf it might be sort of worth it.If we assume 0.25% of the population are MTF's, and there are 300 million americans, 1 blood test is 100 dollars. 75 million dollars are needed to verify the trans population. Is the public image gain worth 75 million dollars?
>>41918448If you make medical transition mandatory, you haven't made all the "gay castration!" people happy.Appeasement is stupid, you won't win. They just need to learn to shove it like they did for the gays.
>>41918473making medical transition necessary is about having a reasonable standard for what being trans means, not about satisfying the most extreme anti-trans people
>>41918481fair enough, but i don't know if there is actually any practical need for that yet
>>41918473Yeah I don't think SRS or anything should be made mandatory. I do think HRT as a legal requirement for like, updating documentation would be fair.
>>41918100men constantly do this shit, segregated spaces have never stopped them if they really wanted to. and other countries like sweden have had mixed bathrooms for a while, and they don't seem to have any uniquely bad issues as a result.
>>41918503I wouldn't be mad if they did that, but also if I was a government official I genuinly don't think its worth the trouble unless its politically expedient to keep people ok with trannies
>>41918304nigger up until the 70s homosexuality was a mental illness in most of the world. they fucking tortured and castrated the man who saved the most lives in europe in probably history. look up alan turing and tell me that there was reason in the way they treated LGBT shit in the 20th century. There was almost no compassion.fuck you, bootlicker.there are concessions to be made.
>>41917941>prior to 2009, every country on earth that had legal gender marker change either required SRS or medical diagnosisI am glad these dark days are behind us.>rise in transphobia happensThe last 5-6 years have been the most trans accepting in the world.>privatization of trans healthcareThis is literally fine.>>41917977A trans person who doesn't become a hon through years of gatekeeping and real-life-experience.
>>41918537Any legal restrictions need to be made with the protection of trans people as the primary interest.
>>41918554that's what i meant, maybe that 75 million dollars if worth it if it keeps the normgroids happy but then again, maybe there are easier ways to do it the blood testing company lobby won't like as much
>>41918567The majority of trannies are doing blood tests anyways.
>>41917977Neither, you fucking retard. You think the average cis normie even sees a difference?
>>41917941I love figures without legends!
