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>Spend past 10 years shouting down anybody who had any criticisms with Troons doing gay/lesbian conversion therapy
>Troons now absolutely BTFO here in the UK because they couldn't even define what a Woman was in court.
Now all we need is laws to keep fag hags out of gay bars and balance will return to normal.

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>>42009485
holy fuck im gonna actually cum im sorry for being delusional im sorry for being a creep im an agp pervert can u please tell me im a man can u PLEASE tell me to 41% actually just straightup tell me to commit suicide and tell me how to do it please please please

>>42009512
I do not care at all when you gays say Aidens/"fag h**s" are invading gay spaces, what is a woman going to do to you? If anything, you will end up being the aggressor if you do not immediately clock her. The reason fags don’t have some sort of TERMRA movement is because most of you don’t even began to entertain the idea of trans men in the first place and get no pushback for that. Us lesbians still get all the fucking flak for not participating in a validation ritual (most do) despite us being the biggest pushovers for troons.

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>>42009485
anon PLEASE just one single "kys" im begging you just call me one slur it can even be a reclaimed one idc ill treat it like it hurts coming from you PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEASE anon i have an ar and an ak which one do u want me to use to kms, all u have to do is pick, please??? anon do u think me having two assault rifles is fembrained can u at least tell me that??

>>42009597
>Us lesbians still get all the fucking flak for not participating in a validation ritual (most do) despite us being the biggest pushovers for troons.

The flak is well deserved. In fact it should get worse

My views
- Gender ideology is completely contradictory, incoherent talking points that rely heavily on mottes and bailies along with bad faith linguistic arguments that constantly shift based on the criticisms.
- TRAs basically largely rely on just Idpol mashed with the same techniques as Zionists. Institutional capture, bad faith victimhood arguments, infiltrating mod/jannie etc positions to ban any opposition.
- No coherent reason if Troonery is "real" why Transracial or Furry or proana or Schizo alien beliefs aren't also real. They are all forms of dysphoria that can be picked up in brain scans.
- Most Leftists are terrified to do any actual analysis on "Trans rights" because they know it doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny and actually has wide reaching effects on womens and LGB rights and identity.
- Gender isn't a particularly useful concept outside of Anthropology discussions. When most people talk about "Gender" they really just mean Sex.
- For most Troons though Gender = Personality
- Difference between Conservative viewpoint and TRA viewpoint is that Conservatives believe that personality must change to match Biology, where Troons believe that Biology must change to match Personality. Classic "Progressive" position is you can be whatever you want, but that's been thrown out the window for TRA reactionary positions.
- T does not really belong alongside LGB. In fact, Troons typically are incredibly homophobic in their beliefs. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOqbwWymcTo)

>>42009668
T~T whenever i try to sexualize chuds/fascists i run into this issue where theyre actually so so stupid and pathetic that i get turned off, like i cant feel inferior or threatened by them cause theyre genuinely just dumbasses and the stuff theyre saying cant hurt me even when im desperate for it to. can u pls make some better arguments so i can go back to fapping

>>42009598
Didn't read allat but the last point doesn't make sense
Lgb people are the most likely to support trannies, and almost all trannies do support lgb people, after all some of them are lgb too

>>42009668
>>42009485
Raped hole screeching amountable to christcuckery
TL DR
>>42009512
>bongs make their country into a third world shithole to own da troons
Ftfy

does anyone here read the straight mind or
catherine mackinnon
>what is your grievance with gender ideology
the naturalization of legal sex

>>42009485
I am trans, can you hate crime me please.

>>42009737
about time yall started capitalizing Troon, showing some respect

>>42009713
Gender shit has really nothing to do with the LGB movement. LGB is based around who you are attracted too, Troon shit is a bunch of post-modernist wackadoodle nonsense that argues that biological reality isn't real and that "gender" exists on a spiritual sense.
Also watch the video for how Troons are ridiculously homophobic. They literally deny Gay/Lesbians even exist in their bullshit theories, you're just a "dick fetishist" or "pussy fetishist" and that is a bigoted position to hold.
Also if i'm gay, and my partner troons out, does that mean I was straight the entire time? Why should I give power over my sexuality to some fucking Troon?
The reason swaths of "LGB" support Troons (though this is rapidly lowering, some of the most upvoted threads on gay subs these days are anti-troon ones) is most haven't done any critical thinking about the issues and mostly have a live and let live attitude. It's only recently now that troon shit has started to attack gay rights, like it's been doing towards womens rights for decades, that people have started to wake the fuck up that no, Troonery isn't anything like LGB at all.

>>42009737
Strawmanning. Homosexuality is an obvious disorder, and any attempt at "proving" otherwise is pure cope
>b-but animals
They are bisexuals. Your disorder shows via a revulsion to natural reproduction
Pedophilic faggot "sexuologists" prove nothing

>>42009557
good girl. now goon your little clitty to sissy hypno and suck my big cock you slut

>>42009763
Even if it's a "disorder" and you can make that argument in regards to reproduction, still has nothing to do with post-modernist troon schizo shit which is more in the realm of Schizophrenia, Borderline Personality, Dissociative Identity Disorder etc at "best" and is mostly just a AGP fetish.

>>42009760
Being gay or queer or whatever is about being Ur true self and all
Yes some trans people may be homophobic and have dumb points, but that doesn't make me hate all of them

>>42009485
>>42009668
"gender ideology" is a spook thoughbeit
you just hate trannies but saying that out loud is bad optics

>>42009668
>my views
>projection because of cognitive dissonance
>more projection
>neurology le bad and evil and sexist actually
>no tranny ever passes actually trust me le magical chromosomes
>strawmanning
>strawmanning
>uuh lgb not t despite both being anti reproductionary disorders
>watch my raped yt link
Retarded
>women and pedofaggots need special priviledges, because they just do, okay? But hope they get graped if they dare to support the filthy troons

>>42009781
>troon shit
Most of the things listed are prevalent in faggots
>agp shit
Sissies and ""fems"" are in the faggot community

>>42009804
Yes, I dislike having to reinforce the fetish and delusions of degenerates and mentally ill weirdos who follow a wholly reactionary ideology that is basically just a mirror of Conservative homophobic/gender reinforcing talking points.
>you just hate trannies but saying that out loud is bad optics
Not among regular people no. Most people at best TOLERATE Trannies, they don't actually believe they are women, but just very thin skinned mentally ill people.

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>>42009805
>Troons calling other pedos as they argue 4 year olds are fully sexually aware and should be able to transition.
Hey what happened at that troon summer camp for kids this year? Oh yeah, "Children need to shower and play naked with the adult counselors to learn gender and body positivity".
Here's one of your most visible TRA's saying it's fine for men to flash little girls and little girls should just enjoy it.

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Gc tards btfo

>>42009816
>Not among regular people no.
in that case why don't you people just outright say that the authoritarian laws you push for are intended to cause harm to people that you hate (the truth) instead of disingenuously pretending like you just care about """protecting""" people
>Most people at best TOLERATE Trannies
is being tolerated supposed to be a bad thing?

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>>42009829
No, it does not say that. Are you relying on people's inability to read a thing? You are doing the exact thing the text is talkibg about
>hey sex isn't actually horrible and evil and every man isnt a walking rape machine
>RAPE REEE YOURE CALLING FOR RAPE EXHIBITION RAPE RAPE
Can you go to therapy instead of projecting your paranoid delusions on others?

>>42009668
i don't know what "gender ideology" is supposed to mean. im trans cuz looking like a boy and being expected to do boy stuff made me sad and suicidal and taking estrogen to look more like a girl made me happy
inb4
>estrogen didnt do that you still look like a man
ok idc. i read on the internet that boys who get sad about having to be boys tend to be happier on estrogen so i took estrogen and now i'm happier
>Gender isn't a particularly useful concept outside of Anthropology discussions. When most people talk about "Gender" they really just mean Sex.
i actually agree with this. estrogen didn't change any anthropological concepts about me. it caused biological changes to my body's secondary sex characteristics.

>>42009851
I do care about protecting people from a NPD cult.
>is being tolerated supposed to be a bad thing?
Extremely precarious when you troonies rely entirely on obsfucation and censorship to hold your position.

>>42009907
Who decided to censor "trans ideology" in schools?
Who is currently calling for research to not be made? Who puts it as higher importance than stopping women in afghanistan from getting raped and killed? Wcn isnt trannies from what i know

>>42009912
You retards literally cannot even define your own positions. Your beliefs are incoherent nonsense. Why should your bullshit ideology be taught in schools when troons literally cannot engage in good faith debate or respond to criticism of troony theories?
>Who is currently calling for research to not be made?
WPATH and Troons who spent the past 20 years attacking any research, researchers and funding that came up with positions that went against the troon position. We all saw the Wpath leaks.
>Who puts it as higher importance than stopping women in afghanistan from getting raped and killed?
Pretty sure we can do multiple things at the same times. It's Radfems who are the ones who are also the most critical of Islam while most Troons and their wokie handmaidens pull the intersectional much cultural essentialism bullshit.
>Wcn isnt trannies from what i know
Because you troons don't actually pay attention to the shit your bullshit cult does until you get blowback.

>>42009907
your entire ideology necessitates censorship
>>42009976
nothing you say is in good faith you disingenuous faggot

>>42009976
>seething not actually adressing the point
I guess that's a concessiom then
>the wpath leaks meme
Geg. Oh, how dare a doctor send a question about how to treat patients, the heresy! The satanism!

>>42009976
>wokie handmaidens
>women and pedofaggots need special priviledges, because they just do, okay? But hope they get graped if they dare to support the filthy troons
Doing the meme

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Actual TFDfuel thread

>>42010022
they aren't all like this, it's a small minority who destroyed their brains by huffing poppers and contracting aids from random closeted strangers at bathhouses. That's the "gay culture" they're mad at trannies for supposedly getting in the way of

>>42009990
>your entire ideology necessitates censorship
We're the ones that have tried to debate you retards for literally decades now, meanwhile all troons can do is run around crying "TERF TEEEERRRRRFFFF" at even gay men. Top of the field academic and wpath TRA's couldn't even win debate against Matt fucking Walsh just asking clarification on basic fucking positions lmao.
>nothing you say is in good faith you disingenuous faggot
Everything I said was in good faith, meanwhile none of you troons even bothered to try address any of my points and instead deflected or did your typical "these points are below me I don't need to address them" bullshit.
Even of Jubilee Troons lost all their debates against the most braindead conservatives lmao.
Your theories are bad and you should feel bad.

>>42009485
>There is no scientific evidence that supports the notion that we have an “internal gender,”
That's not true
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1530891X20357682

I was hanging out with a MTF troon (among others, just got stuck with him at that moment) in a book shop and I pulled out some edgy-spooky art book which had artistic hangman imagery on it and the troon saw it and commented there was certain imagery that kinda triggers him. He didn't say what but it was so obviously triggered by the hangman and I had to hold my tongue not to laugh because that's the trooniest reaction ever

>>42010057
>Troon research
>Not being completely self-contradictory
>Challenge: Impossible.

>>42010058
if you want to trigger her more you can go to her place and then hang yourself

>>42010065
You're contradicting the evidence by saying this

>>42010058
why do you hang out with people you hate?

>>42010048
all of your points are basically just "trannies are evil and I hate them so they shouldn't be allowed to exist," not much to debate there
you have no idea what my "theories" are

>>42009485
you just copied the most recent lolcowfarm gender ideology hate thread OP verbatim, at least try at bit harder kek

>>42009485
go back to cc nigger

>>42010080
Gender roles are socialized roles that exist in relation to biological sex. "Gender" is a socialized concept, hence why gender critical people are critical of Gender because they believe gender roles are largely socially enforced and socialized to suppress peoples self expression.
Gender cannot be "biological" because it's description of socialized cultural norms.
Like I said previously, Gender as a concept doesn't have much use outside of anthropological discussion.
Also in many socities through history, you had forced cross-gender norms, like faafafine, 2Spirit, Sworn Virgins etc, does this mean that through "socialization" they were able to force biological changes in that person? What about different culture where different social norms exist? Things like holding hands a very feminine gender norm in the west is a male norm in Asia, does that mean they are genetically predisposed to hold hands or they all engage in "cross gender" norms? No.
Also Troons are always railing against "biological essentialism" so it's hilarious how much they fall back onto it with research like this, and brain scans (that sometimes show largely show the same changes you see in say pro-Ana people, which point to mental illness)

>>42010217
>le crystal cafe bad
nobody even uses that site this is literally from lcf get your shit together

>>42010218
Here's some research from 2025
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2341287925002108
In 10 years we went from
>it looks like there are biological factors thar contribute to a gender identity
To
>it still looks like there are biological factors thar contribute to a gender identity

>>42010231
Which if the case, actually argues against troon positions, and again, doesn't even make any fucking sense because GENDER IS A DESCRIPTION OF CULTURAL SOCIALIZED SEX BASED NORMS.
It's like saying there is a biological basis in being a Warhammer or Marvel fan.

>>42010241
>terf do not pivot challenge impossible
Whoever wrote the op said that there's no proof there's a biological component to gender identity. I've linked two studies disproving this claim.

>>42010241
How does biological evidence that indicates that a phenomenon is real actually mean that it's not real?

>>42010246
How is there a biological basis for a cultural social norm that changes based on what culture you are around? The studies make no fucking sense. It's like saying because some peoples brains like wargaming, there is a biological basis to Warhammer.

>>42010308
Just because your reading comprehension is poor doesn't mean that the studies are wrong

>>42010314
Troon studies are incoherent and i'm point out why.
Gender refers to SOCIALIZED CULTURAL NORMS. They are not biological. Sex based behaviour = / = Gender ffs.
Again proving the point I made earlier that Gender is a useless concept outside of anthropology and academia.

>>42010328
If there was a study that showed that a specific treatment for cancer was effective and you wouldn't be able to understand how it is effective then you not being able to understand it doesn't doesn't change that the treatment is still effective

>>42010328
You can not understand how there is a biological component to gender identity but that doesn't mean that there isn't a biological component to it just because you can't understand it

>>42010328
>again proving that gender is a useless concept outside of [the only places where concepts matter anyway]

>>42009597
True. Anyone doubting this can go compare r/askgaybros or any other gay male sub to any woman/lesbian sub.
There is no TERMRA because troons are the MRA movement.

>>42010328
>Gender is a useless concept
If people don't need gender is it okay for them to go by they/them pronouns?

>>42010334
Troon shit is only "effective" in treating a Western social contagion that makes no sense and is entirely "socialized" due to post-modernism.
https://bprice.substack.com/p/trans-is-something-we-made-up
>>42010347
There is no biological component because gender refers to cultural socialized norms. Sex based behaviour = / = Gender.
>>42010353
Gender should not be part of the public lexicon because people including most troons think that Gender = Sex or Personality.
Gender refers to cultural socialized norms that are prescribed to biological sexes.
Gender norms 17th century = Women wear giant frilly dresses, men wear makeup and powdered wigs and high heels, society is a patriarchy
Gender norms 21st century = Women wear trousers, most men wouldn't be seen dead in makeup, patriarchal norms are lessened and arguably there are far more matriarchical norms.
Was there "biology" telling men in the 17th century to wear makeup and powdered wigs?

>>42010058
I would not have been able to keep myself from laughing, even as a troon the idea of being actually upset by the hanging troonjaks is hilarious.

>>42010048
It's genuinely amazing to watch you alternate between "I am a rational, good faith actor. I only want debate" and then 2 sentences later you're calling people degenerate perverts.

You sound like a deeply closeted gay guy from 1992 ranting about gay culture in between DL hookups. You have no sway with any gay man who goes outside regularly. None at all. We know what you are. We've all met guys like you before. Even if some trans women are fucking retarded, nobody wants to be on your side.

>>42010469
>There is no biological component because gender refers to cultural socialized norms. Sex based behaviour = / = Gender.
Repeating doesn't make you right. The point still stands just because you don't understand the study doesn't mean that the study is wrong

>>42010469
If this is a modern western social contagion, why were there trannies in Rome and Greece? Or the Native American tribes? Or in modern Thailand?

>>42010469
>substack
ishygddt

>>42010469
>https://bprice.substack.com/p/trans-is-something-we-made-up
This is not a study or academic article there are no sources for any of the claims made

>>42010072
TRVKE

>>42010469
You're conveniently leaving out that for most of history, that was referred to as sex. The concept of a purely biological sex is extremely new which is ironic because it is also in the way it is commonly referred to (by both GCs and progressives) not biologically correct.

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>>42009485
>biological reality beam-ACKKK

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guys please

>>42010220
thats cc's character.

>>42009709
Sorry but dumb trannies line you aren't entitled to a real debate. We're just going make an out of context clip of you saying something cringe so we can upload it to YouTube and millions of people can mock you

Why do tims hate tifs?

>>42010484
There weren't. That is the point this article "Trans is something we made up" is making. Gender non-conforming = / = Troons.

>>42010725
And the article is correct why?

>>42010725
It's not an article it's a newsletter written by a random person It's not scientific proof

>>42010563
Shock horror, because sex is the only thing that actually matters to most people. "Gender" is largely an academic term used in Anthropology/Sociology.
>>42010662
What "debate" are most troons here trying to have? Going around in circles because they can't understand how incoherent their own positions and research is?
Even if gender was "biological" that goes AGAINST the Transgender narrative even more lol Surely then most Troons are also fine with brain scans to figure out what "gender" they have, except those brain scans will come back 99.9% of the time as 100% their biological sex.

>>42010725
i didnt make up that being a boy makes me sad. why would i make that up?

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>>42009485
> Foundational to transgenderism, gender ideology is the belief that one’s “internal gender” can contradict one’s biological sex.
Gender isn’t real do I don't care about this
This entire post is predicated on the assumption that trannies all have the same straw manned understanding of gender.
Im a “woman” for all intents and purposes in my daily life because that’s what society calls me, I could not care less about if I’m not a “real woman” or if I’m male or a “man in drag”.
Gender isn’t even real why tf would I care about which one I am? There is no female essence that makes you a woman, you can be chromosomally, hormonally, gonadally, etc female but womanhood is just the assumption placed upon people who seem to fit those boxes.
I like the effects estrogen has on my body and I feel more comfortable in the social role for those society calls women.
All of this sounds so stupid when you realize gender abolitionists are right and not in the “sex should replace gender” way

Pic unrel, I just saw some cute ducks today

>>42010749
"Hypothesis" is also an academic term but that doesn't make that word useless or invalid

>>42010743
Because it's true? Troons as a concept is one that only really formed in the 20th century. 2S, Faafafine, Sworn Virgins were forced social roles largely put on people due to extremely strict gender roles, but massive gender imbalance.
Faafafine = Not enough boys on Island
Sworn Virgins = Dudes all got killed in War.
2S = Probably not even real and largely was a narrative that developed in the 1990s, but reports more akin to above
etc etc.
None of these are "I feel I'm the opposite sex because of ???" and "Sex is only a feeling and costume and actually biological men and women don't exist" which is the current mainstream troon activist line.

>>42010764
How do you know it's true when it's not based on facts?

>>42010754
Because you are mentally ill and you live in a society with enforced strict Gender norms.
Why would you feel "bad" as a boy if you lived in a society that allowed more gender expression for males? You wouldn't, it wouldn't even be a narrative.
Hell if you lived 200 years ago this shit wouldn't even cross your mind and your borderline dysphoria would have been about eating or some crap.

>>42010764
The article is not scientific why do you take it seriously?

>>42010764
Can you reply to any of the posts I made earlier you just ignored them

>>42010775
i asked my friends if they felt the same way about being a boy and they all said they liked being boys. everything about society tried to convince me that being a boy is good and even "better" than being a girl but i never stopped wanting to be a girl instead. i can't think of one thing i like about being a boy. and my sadness went away when i took estrogen and started looking more like a girl.
>200 years ago your life would be different because things were different
okay?

>>42010775
As a male I express my gender through hormonal transition and sex change. There is historical precedence for this

>>42010764
Sworn virgins were,'t a pushed role, it was a choice

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>There is no scientific evidence that supports the notion that we have an “internal gender,”
John Money's disastrous experiments which hint human beings have a strong inate gender identity regardless of societal upbringing and stereotyping

>>42009668
>Furry
dude, they don't think they are literally animals, they are people that like fictional anthropomorphic characters. The people that think they are literally animals are called Therians, and even then the number of them that genuinely believe this is abysmally low in comparison to people that are like "haha I really like eagles!"

>>42010218
But anon, biological reality doesn't care about what your religious doctrine says. If biology made it so people compulsively feel the inate need to join and identify into one of said socialized roles based largely on their sex then it's your gender critical religious belief that is wrong! :)

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>>42010809
If I prefer to be a dog, and I dress up in a dog costume, am I a dog? should it be legal for everyone to refer to me as a dog and treat me like a dog? If I write on forums that being treated like a dog gives me a dog boner, should I still have the legal right to force people to call me a dog, should I be acting like a dog around children?
If the man is also a dog, legally, should have human rights or basic animal rights? Should we remove human rights to appeal to the lowest common denominator? What even is "human" it's just a linguistic indictator right?
>>42011022
What if they claim they are a dog? Shouldn't you treat them as such? What about other disorders? Are Anorexics really fat? Should you treat them as fat and their anorexia valid? Are Schizos who think shadows are talking to them heckin valid and we should give personhood rights to the shadow?
Also you are very under a rock if you don't think Xenogenders are real and common among NBs/Troons.

>>42011140
>women are actually just like dogs

>>42011121
There is zero biological proof that "Gender" is internalized through biological processes. You are your sex. I mean, where is the science to test this? What are the biological indicators that make people want to wear dresses?
Troonery among men is for the most part, just AGP or internalized homophobia. Troonery among Women is for the most part, trauma reaction to abuse/misogyny.

>>42011154
If you claim that women are just a costume that you can act out, and that if people reaffirm the label then you are exactly that, then that should apply to everything. If you say you are a dog, you get a bunch of furries to affirm you are a dog, then you are a dog.
I mean, lets go to a very real one, Diaracial. Why do Troons look down upon Transracial when it's literally the exact same argument? In fact there is more of an argument for Transracial since Biracial people are common.

>>42011140
>What if they claim they are a dog?
they they are Therians not furries dumbass

>>42011156
>Zero proof
Haven't multiple studies been linked showing that trans people have opposite-sex dimorphism in key parts of the brain relating to proprioception and identity, such as the BNST?

>>42011173
Sex is more variable than race or being part of a species. Like 2 humans can only ever have children that end up having the same race but those same 2 people can have children that belong to different sexes

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>>42011173
>equivocating sex to race
Come now, surely you can do better than this.

>>42011173
categories are socially defined, if we all agreed that some people are dogs then we would agree that some people are dogs, what we think of when we say the word dog would change to include some people
there's no inherent truth to categories or words, we make them up to describe something and that process keeps changing over time, we add things, take things away, set one definition, refine it, scrap it, reinvent it, use it so ironically it flips, it doesn't change the way things are in themselves directly, just how we treat them, which then does change those things

>>42011156
>There is zero biological proof that "Gender" is internalized through biological processes.
an anon gracefully provided you with two studies made decades apart which both came to the same conclusion and you dismissed them to instead uphold your religious Gender Critical narrative :)
>What are the biological indicators that make people want to wear dresses?
you are altogether misunderstanding what is being said. No one is claiming that there is a gene which compells women to wear dresses, even though this is what the Troon Strawman you built on your heard says. What people are saying is:
>The stereotypes of gender exist in society
>People are innately compelled to align to those, regardless of the contents of said stereotypes.
As I mentioned with the John Money experiment in which David Reimer was torment by a forced transtion during childhood: Reimer was socialized as a girl with all female stereotypes, and yet he still showed the exact symptoms of gender dysphoria since he was a child and eventually went on to live as a man. If gender was purely socialized, wouldn't this be a bizarre coincidence for the boy that was raised as a girl to just also develop the tranny mental illness and reject all stereotypes of the female gender?
Since I am afraid you will still manage to entirely misunderstand the point I am making: It doesn't matter what the stereotypes of gender are. Males will innately see and want to join the stereotypes they see other males upholding, regardless of what they are. Females will see and innately want to adopt the stereotypes other females uphold, regardless of what they are. Both of those are biological drives. The tranny mental illness is precisely a person of a given sex having this response to the stereotypes of the opposite sex.
As you can imagine, I think your whole gender critical and geneder abolitionist fantasy is doomed from the start due to biology :)
I am not a tranny, by the way. I am a bisexual cisgender man

>>42011156
>Troonery among men is for the most part, just AGP or internalized homophobia
Oh haha you got me. I am an AGP bisexual internalized homophobe. I will still keep taking my hormones and living as a woman and you can't really do anything to stop me. Merry Christmas sister

The idea you can become a woman is laughable, because what's the threshold? what is the single thing that pushes you over the line from man to woman? no other animal uses identity over biology to mark their sex

>>42011315
other animals don't "mark their sex" they just act on instinct
the threshold is simply social construction, it's a category maintained and policed by society, they're no directly observable truth to any category, they are conceptual

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>>42011173
you can't just become white, michael. don't be ridiculous.

>>42011327
their sex influences their behavior like humans. your sex is genetic

>>42011337
As much as I loved him he's still not white. are albino black people white? no

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I'm a furry and not once during my whole life I thought of myself as being a literal dog

>>42011342
Except you can induce opposite sex behavior in mammals through hormonal anomalies and many animals already display opposite sex behavior through natural anomalies.

>>42011342
well their traits influence their behaviours but sex is a category and model rather than a trait

>>42011315
Trannies are just crossdresser taken to the next level
They're not women, but more like sissified men

>>42010749
they have no argument and their autism makes them circle like that

>lots of people making arguments about different things
>lol they no have arguments
not sending their best

>>42011368
but they aren't the opposite sex

>>42011392
No no, this is their best. They're just all that stupid.

>>42009512
>>Troons now absolutely BTFO here in the UK because they couldn't even define what a Woman was in court.
retard no trans people or organisations were even allowed to weigh in as interveners on the ruling because it was considered "bias" by the UK court (even though Sex Matters and an LGB org were permitted to)

>>42011402
I think you're trying to grandstand while they're making good arguments that you aren't interested in actually addressing

I still don't get how woman as a social category is different than woman as a sex category, and why the former should take precedent over the latter

>>42011392
They're posting in a frenzy to bump their own thread onto homepage, sort of like a man who wants attention and sends you unsolicited photos of his dick. It's interesting how they need the perception of a target to do this, if they weren't receiving the attention they're looking for then they'll try a few more times before moving on

>>42011140
>If I prefer to be a dog, and I dress up in a dog costume, am I a dog?
i don't really care. if dressing up that way makes you happy then yeah you should do things that make you happy
>should it be legal for everyone to refer to me as a dog and treat me like a dog?
this is already legal
>If I write on forums that being treated like a dog gives me a dog boner, should I still have the legal right to force people to call me a dog
this has nothing to do with anything i said. i just take hormones and go by a womans name. i'm not aware of any ability i have to force people to call me anything. but it's usually polite to call people by their names.
>If the man is also a dog, legally, should have human rights or basic animal rights? Should we remove human rights to appeal to the lowest common denominator? What even is "human" it's just a linguistic indictator right?
i don't know. both men and women have human rights tho so i don't see what this has to do with anything i'm doing. i didnt lose any special man-only rights by transitioning and i didn't gain any special woman-only rights by transitioning.

>>42011298
Reimer doesnt prove an internal gender. The problem couldve been the fact that a biological male lost their dick. To go from that to therefore removing a dick is the cure for a different disease, is not logical.

I think people forget that science is based on empirical evidence and not analogies or ”logical” arguments(most often it’s not even logically sound). Far too often the argument I see is just some analogy.

>>42011376
define "sissified"

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>how it feels (as a furry) to be lumped together with therians

>>42011418
Good arguments like ignoring the studies put forth? Ignoring the literature regarding opposite sex dimorphism in the brain? Ignoring common genetic mutations in the trans population that point to an underlying biological cause?

>>42011427
>They're posting in a frenzy to bump their own thread onto homepage
Ok so you're a tourist then
what an embarrassing thing to say

>>42011449
>I act just like a man
>Please look at these photos of my dick

>>42011461
you don't even know how to greentext
go back

>>42011416
Which trans organiziations specifically were rejected after trying?

>>42011426
they have no answer for this, but normal people without mental disorders don't really put so much focus on the roles men and women play in society like that. and no that doesn't mean gender theory is at all valid, because we've seen and heard enough from the major players in it like Andrea Long Chu and Erin Reed

likewise trannies and their defenders still haven't been able to answer specific questions like "how does this differ from people wanting to remove their own hands" or "how does this differ from anorexia" because in the end it doesn't, which is further bolstered by the fact places that tend to be swarming with transes are filled with suicidal mentally ill cutters with a whole slew of other mental conditions

>>42011432
the problem could also be innate gender, which would be consistent with everything else I said AND the two studies (made decades apart) both things you conveniently never addressed.
Give that there is not a single human culture without gender stereotyping (though gender norms do differer greatly between them) it seems that the case for innate gender identity being biological seems very strong

>>42009485
The gender ideologists posit the idea that a mental disorder that involves a sexual fetish should be legitimized by forcing socety to affirm the fetishes of men that like to imitate women. Nothing more.

>>42011489
>"how does this differ from people wanting to remove their own hands"
removing your hands disables you. transitioning doesn't

>>42011493
Right but ”could therefore it is” is a logical fallacy. For any phenomenon you could come up with endless possibilities, so you need to prove which is actually most probably, using empirical evidence not just conjecture.

>>42011521
the mental urge of becoming suicidal because you don't have a woman's physical appearance is a mental disorder. this mental disorder is acted upon by removing your penis, which makes you sterile

>>42011426
I get into more trouble with male legal identification because I literally do not look like a male. Last time I went to a liquor store I got turned away because the owner thought I was using someone else's ID.

99% of the time, what matters is how you are perceived. Man, woman, white, black, etc. are all social categories that we assign to people based on heuristics. When someone changes traits associated with each heuristic enough, they get assigned a new social category.

>>42011489
We do actually treat severe cases of bodily integrity disorder with amputation. Amputation also significantly lowers general QoL while HRT does not.

We don't let anorexics starve themselves to death because that literally kills them.

This is all sidestepping the vast quantities of research we have on the biological basis of gender dysphoria, from neurological dimorphism to common genetic mutations to hormonal anomalies.

>>42011489
we do have an answer it's quite simple, and we have answers to those other things too

sex as a category refers to the bimodal distribution of sexed characteristics or traits
gender as a category refers to the social categories of men and women which is generally downstream from sex as a category, but is also influenced by how the category has been reproduced and policed over history

>>42011352
his skin is literally white. how are you this obtuse?

>>42011534
sterility isn't a disability and i never wanted kids anyway. and yes, i did have mental problems relating to being sad about being a boy. taking estrogen is the thing that made me stop wanting to kill myself and it's the best thing that ever happened to me.

>>42011472
internets

>>42011545
>sex as a category refers to the bimodal distribution of sexed characteristics or traits
no. We must know the sex before we can make any statement about what traits are dimorphic, which is why we can claim that for some animals males are bigger and for others the females are bigger. If sex was a collection of traits the bigger hairier members would always be males.

>>42011539
no person on Earth has changed from white to black or the opposite what are you talking about? "Black" is a catch all term for people originating from Africa, but more specifically American descendants of slaves. which white person has joined that category?

likewise the best example of the opposite, Michael Jackson, still only ever identified as Black throughout his life, and like the other reply asked does this make albino people white?

>>42011524
the most probable is innate biological gender as published here :)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1530891X20357682
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2341287925002108
It's ok, as you said innate biological gender would contradict troon ideology. You can just accept the facts now to own the trannies or something

>>42011600
Have you even read the paywalled articles?

>>42011551
who considers Michael Jackson white? does society consider him white? I thought all that matters was how you were perceived? not a single person on Earth thought MJ was white. how is that obtuse?

>>42011594
bob marley doesn't qualify as black under the critera you provide here

>>42011594
A person is assigned "Black" based on heuristics regardless of origin. Any sufficiently dark skinned person may be assigned "Black." Similarly, "White" is also assigned and what constitutes as "White" has changed over time and varies from community to community.

The assigned nature of race is most evident in biracial people. For instance, someone with a white parent and a black parent may be considered "Black" by predominantly white communities but "White" by predominantly black communities, because each community has its own set of heuristics in regards to assigning race.

>>42011589
idk why you think that
we can take all kinds of traits that we sex and plot how often they're associated with other traits we sex, and we get a bimodal distribution, we find that if you have a vulva you usually have a womb, usually have breasts, usually have some range of estrogen in your blood etc. etc.
sex is just each cluster and it's a good way to simplify large populations

>>42011611
Here's like something about transgender brains
https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/ei0psrhz/transgender-brains-are-more-like-their-desired-gender-from-an-early-age.pdf

>>42011568
sterility is widely considered to be a disability given humans' main biological function is to procreate

>>42011621
Sex isnt a cluster. Before we can say males are taller than females we must first identify and compare males vs females. In other words we must first know who is male and who is female regardless of height. That way we can say that in humans males are on average taller, but that’s not the case for all animals.

>>42011633
Oh like schizophrenia huh
Should we treat schizophrenia with cosmetic surgery and opposite sex hormones

>>42011611
Also the one from 2025 isn't paywalled there's a view full pdf button and it takes you to the full thing

>>42011633
Was that a no?

>>42011589
In it's most reductive definition, sex is purely based on gametes.

In it's more useful medical definition, it is a bimodal distribution of traits and is mutable. This is really important for medical care because a troon or poon on HRT is going to have health needs that vary across the distribution.

>>42011635
so are you against vasectomies too? cuz before i transitioned i was planning to get one. is it a mental illness to want a vasectomy, in your opinion?

>>42011616
neither does Obama believe it or not, he never had a slave ancestor and a lot of "ADoS", American Descendants of Slavery, people are angry at him being called Black because of it. I'm not joking

but he's still ethnically black, and had some form of black experience growing up, obviously.

>>42011652
No >>42011649

>>42011646
if it's proven effective in clinical trial

>>42011489
>how does this differ from people wanting to remove their own hands
It doesn't. More freedom to them. I would rather have a society in which mentally ill people can act in ways that go perhaps against their own "best interest" than one in which a nanny state legislates on how I can live my life.
>how does this differ from anorexia
Anorexia is a funny example, because people with anorexia aren't forced to undergo medical treatment for it either. So an a anorexic can keep starving themselves, just like how I will keep taking my hormones and you can't really do anything about it.
Here are the facts: I don't care about your theories. You could be right about everything, and yet I will still take the hormones, present myself as a woman and live as one. You can't do anything about this, understand it? You need to rely on daddy government to try to enforce your petit tyrant plans on the world.

>>42011640
>Sex isnt a cluster. Before we can say males are taller than females we must first identify and compare males vs females. In other words we must first know who is male and who is female regardless of height.
we assign people to the categories of male and female based on what kind of cluster of traits they have though, it's not a problem, we generally just go by one trait at birth and that's right almost all the time

>>42011656
Your bimodal cluster is not a medical definition, it’s better you learn this today and not get shocked later. If you want to know medical terminology it’s better to read textbooks and not twitter activists.

>>42011621
sex isn't a cluster and you could have women with a wide range of physical traits and races still all fully show to be women with a simple cheek swab or blood test

>>42011683
>medical terminology
nta but you're dumb if you think all of medicine uses one definition of sex that you happen to agree with

>>42011681
Sex is assigned when someone’s a fetus, sometimes before in case of ivf. It’s not based on height or body hair.

>>42011683
The bimodal cluster definition is taken directly from medical literature:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK581050/

>Sex is a multidimensional construct based on a cluster of anatomical and physiological traits that include external genitalia, secondary sex characteristics, gonads, chromosomes, and hormones.

>>42011696
Your definition isn’t used anywhere.

>>42011694
it is a cluster of traits, there's no label on anybody that says male or female, it doesn't refer to a directly observable trait, it refers to a collection of traits, genes, gonads, etc.
we place more importance on some than on others
you place most importance on chromosomes for example
>>42011698
depends on when you're observed

>>42011707
one post above you genius

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>>42011534
do you believe it is misogynistic to consider non-reproductive women to be inferior to cis? if so your ideology makes no sense. you're either against the system of sex that values women for their uterus or you consider non reproductive members of society to be disabled and part of an inferior class. you can't say
>but muh society thinks this
if you're positioning yourself (as you should) against the society in question.
>>42011489
>How does this differ from wanting to remove your own hands
>How does this differ from anorexia
These questions are answered all the time, what the fuck are you on about. A cis man literally brought up unprompted to me, a tranny, unprompted about why he believed BIID was different from gender dysphoria in a broader conversation about physician discretion.
My answer to both would be that transition doesn't fuck up homeostasis and in fact improves it significantly in terms of outcomes.
>filled with suicidal mentally ill cutters
and what are you doing in these spaces?

>>42011664
OP you forgot to reply to this

>>42011635
>we gender criticals are progressive feminist and troonism is a reactionary ideology!
>by the way women exists to be walking incubators and wombs, it's a human's main biological function
holy KEK

>>42011728
>>42011702
1) no use of bimodal in there so you’re still lying
2) that definition was made up by their interdisciplinary panel as they admit, they did not cite the definition from clinical practice or textbooks.

The problem is you admit you don’t even read the links you post as was the case with the paywalled one.

>>42011619
>anyway yeah black and white are just social categories we put people in
>this is mostly observable in biracial people

hmmm

>>42011611
If you want more more can be found you just have to say you want more it's just that idk if it's worth the effort to look up and post more if you're just going to deny whatever I'm throwing at you

>>42011756
False dichotomy
>women must be made sterile or be enslaved

>>42011767
it's always adhoc, there isn't some medically standard definition of sex, that's the point dummy
and yes what they're describing is bimodal

>>42011756
so why can we procreate if we weren't designed to? you can want to be sterile all you like but it isn't "normal" to want to or be sterile, no

>>42011767
Multidimensional construct means bimodal because it's not strictly binary.

The panel of experts defining sex for use in medical literature is how definitions for anything are made. Do you think definitions spring from the aether? Just like any terminology, it is discussed and updated over time.

You are a lobotomite.

>>42011775
nta but what is hmm about that? race is rooted in some obvious historical events

>>42011796
that's incredibly naive of you to assume that humanity's purpise in life is solely procreation.

>>42011783
>False dichotomy
Big words coming from you can only be a man or a woman

>>42011805
>>42011794
You dont know what bimodal means. Your googling failed at even coming up with a source. Irl medical personel have no idea wtf you’re talking about.

>>42011796
why can I use baguettes to play the drums if they weren't designed for that?

>>42011775
You're genuinely retarded if you think engaging in assignment proves that it's not assignment.

>>42011796
who cares if its "normal" or not

>>42011819
I think they know what bimodal means actually

>avoids all the hard questions
>focuses on a minor example instead of the main point of >>42011298
>contradicts her own ideology by saying "reproduction is a human's main function"
>pretends everyone else is dishonest and not interested in having a conversation
>responds with "well but my ideology says..." to every opposing study brought up
>"being mentally ill means you should have no autonomy"
females, ain't I right fellow males? lol

>>42011806
saying black and white are just categories you can change when you want stands in contrast to saying biracial people, a genetic category, exists.

I'm half white and half Pacific Islander. I know full well about the culture surrounding that, and how I was treated growing up by various groups. but I can still take a blood test that shows my genetics -regardless- of how I've been perceived

>>42011836
Yes which is why they didnt use it LOL

>>42011819
Bimodal refers to a distribution having two different modes (peaks). In this case, the peaks are "classical binary male" and "classical binary female", where all dimensions in the "multidimensional construct" adhere to classical male/female norms.

You are not beating the lobotomite allegations.

"Scientific evidence" is total fraud or misleading half the time but it sure does present itself convincingly.
I'm glad these useful idiots will let me transition at least, so I'm going to just let them think 37 genders exist. You go theyfab enby that's literally just a woman with a short haircut

>>42011846
Ad hominem. You cant argue why my posts are wrong, rather i must be wrong because im a lobotomite(well in your fantasy I am at least).

>>42011842
>saying black and white are just categories you can change when you want stands in contrast to saying biracial people, a genetic category, exists.
biracial isn't a genetic category

>I'm half white and half Pacific Islander. I know full well about the culture surrounding that, and how I was treated growing up by various groups. but I can still take a blood test that shows my genetics -regardless- of how I've been perceived
do you think genes have some race marker in them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teyvcs2S4mI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVmj8dDx9yY
at your leisure

>>42011796
so I take it you must at minimum also think vasectomies, hysterectomies and other common sterility inducing procedures often touted as "female reproductive care" are also a sign of deep mental illness just like troonism?

>>42011868
Fallacy fallacy. I'm calling you a lobotomite because you seem incapable of interpreting information that is presented to you.

>>42011868
> you don't know what x means
> they tell you
> ad hom!!!!!!!!!!1
silly

>>42011868
This isn't "ad hominem"
"ad hominem" means "at the man" which means the person is attacking you personally instead of your arguments. You probably have brainrot and can't distinguish the two though. <- see that's an ad hominem since I literally don't know you.
If anything trying to say "you don't understand lol I bet you look it up" instead of explaining your position is "ad hominem." These fallacies always bring down the intellectual level of a discussion instead of increasing it

>>42011881
Mate you admitted to not even reading your own links. I actually did, notice how I’m so far the only person to have actually addressed specific content of the links you’ve posted? Sad but lol

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>>42011868

>>42009485
I agree trannies aren't women but banning HRT is too far. IDK if I would've killed myself without it but being able to diy seriously helped with my depression.

>>42011873
obviously biracial isn't its own genetic category on its own, its a description based on someone's genetic ancestry. the concept of race is outdated in the sense of 5 or so cardinal races but that doesn't mean different population groups don't exist

>>42011910
you're so dumb what do you think the clusters are, trimodal?

>>42011874
other people already asked this one to you and you didn't answer. Are you avoiding to because you actually think all these procedures are completely fine, but the cognitive dissonance of "troons bad because they neuter themselves" and "female healthcare good because it lets us avoid pregnancies" is too hard to deal with?

>>42011910
>Admitted to not even reading your own links
Where? Are you hallucinating? Go take your antipsychotics.

>>42011909
They havent made any argument against the substance of my posts, just posted links they admit they don’t even read and upon my reading them turn out to not even include their claims. So yes when you have no argument against the substance of my post, but rather only personal bs insults, then it’s an as hominem.

>>42011948
You admitted to not reading the paywalled link. And I highly suspect you didnt read the link that omitted the use of bimodal(since you claimed it did, making you a liar had you read it).

>>42011951
>Haven't made any argument
Do I have to spoon-feed you like an infant?
>"Here comes the airplane!"
It is not my fault that you are refusing to engage in dialogue.

>>42011977
Your arguments are dumping links you admit to not reading and insulting me.

>>42011974
Not the same person who posted the previous links, dipshit.

The proof trannies are retarded is that they can't help themselves but to engage with this post instead of just ignoring it and living their lives holy fucking SHIT stop bumping this to the first page RETARDS

>>42011951
they used clusters though, which in the case of human sex, is bimodal, we use two sexes, and they're obviously not binary if we're using clusters

>>42011974
I could find more studies that aren't paywalled

>>42012001
You still admit to posting links as evidence that you haven’t even read. When I read them, turns out they dont even support yout claim(like claiming it says bimodal when it doesnt).

>>42011992
Where did you read that human sex is bimodal? From twitter laymen. Because it’s not in the links you posted and not in textbooks.

>>42012013
I've read what's not paywalled and the bimodal thing was a different person

>>42012013
You're talking to multiple different people. Seriously, can you not tell the difference between individuals based on writing style alone?

The person who posted the links earlier didn't even use proper capitalization. The person you're responding to now doesn't use proper punctuation.

Again, lobotomite.

>>42012013
>Your definition isn’t used anywhere.
the definition in question
>we assign people to the categories of male and female based on what kind of cluster of traits they have though, it's not a problem, we generally just go by one trait at birth and that's right almost all the time
the paper in question
>Sex is a multidimensional construct based on a cluster of anatomical and physiological traits that include external genitalia, secondary sex characteristics, gonads, chromosomes, and hormones.
do better

>>42012021
Multidimensional but existing in two primary forms is a case of bimodality. This is basic information synthesis. You are genuinely retarded and should not have unsupervised Internet access if you cannot recognize basic logic.

>>42011951 the person you replied to
Medical literature is all patchwork bullshit. Like a passing thought "maybe pio fat accumulation will visible feminize you" could warrant a several year long clinical trial and a good research paper will get a paper out there.
You have to understand that "science" is a bunch of out-of-touch academics and if the things they were studying were actually solved then they wouldn't have to get PhDs to keep trying to push human knowledge (at least in theory this is what they're doing). You shouldn't even accept academic papers/peer reviewed documents at face value, that's for the journalists to do. "Scientists" will bicker all day about quantum physics or medical definitions and keep at it for decades until the older professors in the field with older ideas literally fucking die. But despite all this they want to keep their credibility so everyone pretends they know everything possible 100% (total lie) and generally sell people really simplified explanations (see journalists again).
This is how eggs are good for your cholesterol and bad for the same cholesterol. This is why meat/wine/chocolate is good for you and bad for you. That's all bullshit they just manipulate data sets.
I'm not going to agree with you or disagree with you but everyone involved in your little debate should be able to
>read text
>understand text
>discuss text
If anyone fails to do this shit then discussions are going nowhere but the old ideological slop pile
"Oh but I don't have time for reading that" Bitch you're on /lgbt/. The hormone tech on this website literally beats most fucking doctors' knowledge

>>42012049
truncation doesn't imply absolution as you misinterpret it. truncation is for the palletability of laymen that aren't intelligent enough to understand.

Saw some good studies being posted ITT earlier about trans brains so I'll share a decent one I like
https://web.archive.org/web/20201112030821/http://openmindedhealth.com/2012/01/transsexual-brain-studies/
It's a lot more technical than the kinds of articles in OP but it was very interesting to learn since I thought male and female brains had few differences and gender dysphoria didn't really correlate. But I guess it turns out trans brains are different.
>>42011698
when someone makes a guess as to your sex based on your appearance, what is one word you call this process? >>42011783
>women must be made sterile
do you think hrt is an effective form of sterilization? if so, what is its efficacy? do you believe ftms are incapable of getting pregnant?

Should women be screened for gender dysphoria before being allowed elective tube tying, in order to make sure that doctors aren't enabling and abusing their mental illness?
>or enslaved
Do you believe women must be enslaved, or do you believe they mustn't. If the latter, why do you insist that women are valued in terms of reproduction? Can you tell me the difference between "is" and "ought"?
>>42011796
Are you a GC or do you believe in intelligent design?
>>42011842
>I can take a blood test telling me my genetics
You can't, those services were largely scams meant to acquire genetic health data and sell it to insurance companies so they could optimize their premiums. They don't really tell you your ancestry.

>>42012027
>>42012030
I address you as one person since you all source your arguments from the same place(some twitter layman). You did not read bimodal in a book nor did you independently arrive at it. So you have a shared source that is not the links you’ve posted(that you dont even read and dont contain that word).

>>42012072
you are telling us straight up that you are arguing in bad faith here

>>42012072
This is actually funny you think you're right because you group every argument you've heard into "false"

>>42012072
What kind of evidence do you need to be shown to change your mind? Like what could someone tell you or show you about transgender people that would make you support them?

>>42012083
>>42012094
If you are reading the same script then what difference does it make? I am arguing against the script.

>>42012110
ok so you're arguing for paedophilia? wtf what's wrong with you
no, children cannot consent

>>42012110
>If I assume every argument against me comes from the same source it doesn't matter what they say
Have you considered that your assumption is false?

>>42012109
Support meaning what? All I’ve said so far is that their definiton of sex isn’t correct.

>>42012131
definitions aren't right or wrong they're more or less useful or adequate at describing and fitting to usage

>>42012131
So that you stop spreading misinformation about it and that you don't misgender them and generally start being less hostile. Like what do you need to be provided with in order for that to happen?

>>42012109
there isn't any. it's called a phobia because it's rooted in their delusions. delusions are irrationally held beliefs. irrationally held beliefs stem from fear. fear stems from a lack of understanding. a lack of understanding stems from a lack of curiosity. a lack of curiosity stems from a lack of intelligence.
they denounce progress because they feel left behind in it's wake. that feeling of unacknowledgement it was causes their outburts for attention. sometimes the loudest voices succeed regardless of objectivity. the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

>>42011440
They're feminised men basically

>>42012156
I’m not misgendering you. As for misinformation, it’s misinformation to say that the definition used in medical practice is one of bimodal trait clusters.

>>42012196
>It's misinformation because it's not the exact language despite it describing bimodal distributions of traits

>>42012196
What do you need to see so that you start seeing transgenders as their desired gender?

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"bimodal clusters" or "multimodal distributions" looks like a really really common statistics concept that applies to you know sex or gender whatever. But me? I just took basic statistics with only linear correlations and regressions and such.
I can't believe you people are arguing about this.
>girls are shorter boys are taller
>girls are softer boys are tougher
>girls have boobs boys have chest hair
Sure there are exceptions but this shit is all literally known and quantified by now down to the fucking wire/thread since people you know make clothes and stuff.
Sure one of these statistical groupings isn't a case for what a sex is but all together the thousands upon thousands of data points will start to approximate what your fucking eyes tell you when you look at chuckles and gender them instantly

>>42011930
Nobody cares if adult men are taking fake hormones. As long as they're not grooming children and calling themselves women.

>>42012221
The article didn’t even claim it was used in practice. That’s your claim. The article was honest in that it’s a definition used by that panel in that article.

>>42012240
fake hormones?

>>42012240
>"Nobody cares"
>People are constantly trying to stop adults from taking hormones
>"Fake hormones" lul

>>42012240
what the fuck is a fake hormone

>>42012225
I do respect trans peoples pronouns.

>>42012267
fucking temu estrogen scammed me again and all I got was gyno lol lmao

the transphobe is hinging everything on there not existing a paper that talks about sex being bimodal explicitly using those exact words because they think they can win on that one thing and so they've stopped replying to all other lines of argumentation

>>42012255
Yeah, hormones that aren't natural to your male body
>>42012257
I'm not trying to stop adult men from taking hormones or even chopping their dicks x'D I'm just saying that they're still men. I don't care about their body modifications.

>>42012275
'temu estrogen' is crazy

>>42012273
What needs to happen so that you drop all of these transphobic views >>42009668

>>42012244
The panel is about updating the definition in use to provide better treatment. After the panel, the NIH website was updated to use a variation of the provided definition, which was then removed because of Trump's censorship.

It's literally more medically useful because trannies, intersex people, and anyone with sex hormone anomalies are going to have different medical needs because of their different sex traits. It's highlighting how institutions need to update their standards to better treat patients with more complex phenotypes.

>>42012282
sounds like a naturalistic fallacy
what makes them fake though, they do work

>>42012276
Career /pol/acks have like 60 IQ but hey even if they're literally dumber than gorillas they'll champion unpalatable arguments which is actually a bit too rare in society

>>42012289
the temus are slaves! The temus are wiggers enslaved by the chinese

>>42012282
You obviously care enough to throw tantrums on an imageboard website.

>>42012282
its the same exact molecule as the hormones made in the body tho

>transphobic argument
>look inside
>it's appeal to nature and platonism
every time

>>42012282
Holy raped Batman!

>>42012292
Im not that poster

>>42012296
They're fake because your body doesn't naturally produce them. You have to take them as "medication". Same as testosterone in female body.

>>42012331
why does that make them fake
is insulin fake sometimes?

>>42012308
Tantrum? Wut lol xD
>>42012310
Yet they're not naturally made in your body omfg

>>42012331
>Bananas are fake since my body doesn't naturally produce them.

Exogenous =/= fake

Can the person who made this post >>42009668 tell us what needs to happen so that they change their mind?

>>42012336
are you esl maybe you just used the wrong word? fake means like knock off or pretending to be or false

>>42012334
Yes? Some people have to take fake hormones in order to be alive (no I'm not taking about your uwu estrogen)

>I'll never be a real woman!
well I'll never have an authentic Roman gladius either but I could get a fake/reproduction better than an original
For real most woman are trash and fucking sterile literally the normal "real woman" is not fucking tough to beat
>I am so worth it I need all of your money you need to work for me I'm going to gain 100 lbs after we marry lol but you better pay for my vacation tour of Europe first haha I'm so worth it no I won't cook lol I just suck dick let's order uber eats

>>42012354
so you think people with diabetes take fake insulin?

>>42012336
but what makes them fake if it does the same shit?

>>42012321
>Only argument is rape
Trans xisters this isn't a good representation!

this mfer doesn't know what fake means

>>42012362
Makes them fake because they are pharma made

>>42012376
is everything manmade fake?

>>42012324
Can you make a list of your views then?

>>42011476
two trans legal experts from The Good Law project were rejected as interveners and then that ruling was made rejecting all trans interveners for the rest of the case.

>>42012338
Bananas are not fake, they grew in nature not in humans body
Unless they're made artificially

>>42012395
So, is premarin fake? That's authentic, biologically made estrogen.

>>42012395
have you any idea of how much we've changed bananas from what they looked and tasted like the first time humans encountered them?

>>42012386
no but this is!

>>42012408
Yes
Your body doesn't produce it naturally, it produces TESTOSTERONE
You have to take it, it's not produced naturally, so, it's fake, foreign etc

>>42012376
your dumb ass would bitch about anything
I have fucking ovaries implanted into me so my hormones are "real" but you'll just move the definition a-fucking-gain because all you do is hate people because pastor bob told you God made man and woman and only God decides what people can and can't do, right? You would be the dumbest person around but your rank and file are legion

>>42012411
what makes something fake? what do you think that word means? I don't think anybody uses it the way you do
fake leather is fake because it's not actually leather but tries to look and feel and be used in place of it
fake id is fake because it's not actually issued by the state it's a forgery

Agriculture is ! NOT NATURAL ! please return to foraging of ONLY non-human-interacted plants PLEASE

>>42012427
keeekkkk

>>42012376
Are diabetics an ideology because they need fake insulin?

>>42012424
My body doesn't naturally produce bananas so all bananas are fake.

>>42012424
fake doesn't mean foreign

>>42012409
They changed in nature.
Male body never began to produce E in the same way female body does.

>>42012424
if I extract insulin from a human and give it to a person with diabetes is it fake or real insulin?

>>42012446
everything happened in nature then if bananas changed in nature

>>42012424
both men and women have testosterone and estrogen, they just have it im different amounts
retardkpjgp

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>>42012437
Yes it is funny

>>42009485
Waaah my life is so shit I have to make a hobby of crying to strangers online about things that don't even effect me.

The absolute state.

>>42012439
No? They are ill and they don't deny their illness.

they have to be esl to fuck up this hard

>>42012442
Its foreign
Same way T is foreign to female body
Thought you troonies will admit this

>>42012466
So if diabetics can take fake insulin while not being in an ideology why are trans people who take take fake hormones part of ideology?

>>42012466
What do you think trannies who take HRT to treat dysphoria are doing, dumbfuck?

>>42012466
insulin treats the illness for diabetics. estrogen or testosterone treats the illness for trans people

>>42012475
that's not what fake means

>>42012454
But your hormones aren't changing naturally! If that was true all males would be little bit estorgenised by now. But no, you have to take them, your body can't produce them naturally ans if you stop to take them it slowly returns to it's natural function

>>42012475
>females have no testosterone at all
everyone knew you were dumb but this is a new low

>>42012475
Retard who got super hung up on a definition describing a bimodal distribution but not specifically using the word bimodal is also a retard about terminology in other ways.

>>42012461
>they just have it im different amounts
really?! No shit. Male body produces more t meanwhile female body produces more e. That's like...my point this whole time

>>42012494
All males are a little bit estrogenized you dumbfuck! T aromatizes into E! Powers theory even posits that one of the phenotypes of trannies are males who aromatize T into E at above average rates and thus feminize their brains.

>>42012475
if bodybuilders take too much roids their body naturally converts it into estrogen in their body. /fit/bros with gyno confirmed the first real transitioners

>>42012494
Males do produce estrogen, just not as much as females. My pre HRT blood test had my estrogen at 30 pg/mL.

It really just is a low iq

>>42012479
Diabetics are not forcing people to call them want they aren't

>>42012494
so?

>>42012506
yeah but i changed my body so that it has more e and less t like that of a woman

>>42012481
If your dysphoria is treated they would give you pills to stay a man and not live in larp delusion
But you very likely don't have dysphoria, put your porn addiction down

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>check thread
>another transphobe attempting to appear “in good faith” consistently performs mental gymnastics to avoid any points in reference to scientific research out of the basis that “all research papers should not be trusted”
>wants a “good faith argument” with the basis that neither side uses scientific evidence and instead just accepts their own word for the matter

>separate transphobe makes arguments from nature while remaining hypocritical when presented counter arguements
Bait threads 24/7

>>42012517
>Liquor store owner calls me she
>I show him my ID (not updated)
>He doesn't let me buy alcohol because my ID says I'm male but I look like a woman
Yes I'm forcing him to call me a woman

>>42012497
>I'm akschually females produce more T than men!!!

>>42012494
are you antivax too then

>>42012517
Trans people aren't forcing anyone to call them "what they aren't" either

>>42012518
So it's fake
Glad we agree

>>42012530
such a pill does not exist
if it did i'm sure /repgen/ would love to take it

>>42012530
>No such pill exists
>"But pimozide!"
>n=1 case study from the 90s

Dysphoria is treated via transition

>>42012542
wow, desperate attempt, but we can read what they actually said silly poo

>>42012542
>Its foreign
>Same way T is foreign to female body
you dumb fucking turd, women sex organs produce testosterone just like testes in much smaller amount. You're consistently wrong on basically everything and smug about it. There's a place for you in society and it's picking up trash off the side of the highway

>>42012548
Yes they are. They do it all the time!

>>42012550
that doesn't make estrogen fake, it's real estrogen

>>42012473
They want the OP bumped so people click the links one of which contains an IP logger / collect SEO tokens. As you've seen it's really not about rational argument.

>>42012557
>>42012558
>Females produce more E and less T than males.
>WAAASAAHHHH!!!!

>>42012563
If I could force you I would but no you're not being forced + they actually are the gender they identify as

>>42012563
when were you last forced?

>>42012570
well we're past bump limit now

>>42012577
Of course you would use force...Kek they are really revealing themselves aren't they

>>42012575
ah so you're going to pretend you were saying something different the whole time now?

>>42012563
>i consume slop media therefore what they say is true
Im hard pressed to believe you even interact with 20 trannies in your day to day life. Quit playin

>>42012563
*trans woman introduces herself with a womans name*
>oh my god you troons are forcing me to partake in your delusions by calling you by your name

>>42012568
Artificially made
Not produced naturally
Therefore fake

>>42012585
For the greater good you should be forced

>>42012575
the reason you hate ghetto niggers so much is because you compete for the same jobs and places at the bottom of society

>>42012597
>I'm absolutely NOT a moid btw!

>>42012585
And you shouldn't be allowed to vote either

>>42012594
maybe the word you're looking for is synthetic? is plastic fake? are houses fake? this is just not what fake means

>>42012612
What you think doesn't matter
Cope harder male

>>42012594
fake implies the compounds making said object are entirely different than the original when in regards to estrogen they’re bioidentical. Your lack of finding a better word to describe your disgust for others’ use of medicine is a you problem.

>>42012609
I am thank you :3

>>42012593
Ok "Alice"

>>42012619
>Cope harder male
All of my posting was worth it for this