personally i have no idea, i kinda just really want to do it and i've been really jelous of trannies for a while until i caved.

I wasn't really a fail male or anything I do alright as one (people even think I am charismatic), just don't like it. I know this isn't a satisfying answer and it isn't really to me either, I have no good explanation.

>>42043491
not trans but ur picrel describes me a lot desu

>>42043491
Is pic the new meta? Seems accurate for me as well. Didn't read your rambling post about nothing btw lol

>>42043509
The massive rise probably just comes down to practicality, if this was 1990 it would not be practical for anyone but the most absurdly suicidal and obvious cases so I guess I would just live as some uneasy rando, but now its an option and I like that.

you're describing these conflicting explanations as if they're from the same person who can't make up their mind, when really it's mostly different people saying different things with different explanations who just so happen to use the same board

i subscribe more to the inherent argument, and i think the reason a lot of trans ppl talk about failing as their agab before transitioning is because them having dysphoria/trying to be something they weren't made them miserable, and obviously transitioning made them feel better, so a lot of people can get the feeling that they just failed to be able to fill the social role associated with their gender, when in reality it wouldn't make them happy even if they preformed it well, which is why they ultimately transitioned

>>42043491
do you like animation memes?

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>>42043538
i guess, but as someone who would like to help people so that they don't get discriminated for what they are its hard to put all my eggs in the trans basket when there is so much infighting over this sort of problems.
like,if i was going out there funding programs to help disenfranchised groups and i saw that one of those groups has huge epistemological internal problems about their own identity and the reasons for their disenfranchiment i would think twice before giving them resources since it can grow into a bigger problem in the future if those problems haven't been sorted out. it kinda cold minded, and you could make the argument that you should help them either way if they are in great inpending danger, but even then i would feel unease abot the future of that community of wich now i am responsable of after helping them

>>42043538
>when in reality it wouldn't make them happy even if they preformed it well
That's me.
I'm doing really well as a man. Married, property owner, decent job, some side-hustle and so some volunteer community work. But the better I do it, the worse I feel.

>>42043622
It seems like being a tranny is sort of a neurological thing you get stuck with like being gay is, I think the interpretation of biological realities or trying to rationalize it as "woman trapped in mans body/vise versa" or whatever is ultimately unimportant compared to the fact that:
1: There exist individuals strongly preferring to have characteristics of the opposite sex
2: This preference is so strong so as to require medical assistance
3: These individuals often face discrimination.

>>42043695
Like there is no philosophy behind it and I don't think there needs to be, some men just get really sad if they don't have tits and get called Amanda. We don't know why this is but the best way to help them is to give them these things.

>>42043491
>the rise of "trans identifying people" in the last 10 years
A lot of it is due to practicality. I was able to afford it in 2011, but most of everyone else could not afford it until 2015 or later.

>how can ppl trust you to give the measures by which they should aid you, protect you, and most of all, know weather you are what you claim you are?

Maybe obvious b8 and i'm the retard, but it's still a fair question.
The biggest problem is that the most unhinged weirdos talk about us. And it is our fault. Those of us normal signed up to transition and then moved on to live our new lives and... that's it. Behind us were left the activists, who got increasingly crazy.

I don't even remember last time i was at a queer-coded event. Surely before the pandemic.
I signed up to be a woman, not to support increasing my taxes, fill my country with violent muslims who want to throw me off of buildings or to have weird and endless arguments about zionism (i'm not a jew, idgaf about middle east politics). Yet... that's how tranny spaces are viewed now.

With that said, gender dysphoria is still complicated. The diagnosis itself has gotten easier to grasp, but the treatment is still nowhere near as clear-cut as it seems.

Yes, transition MAY help (it certainly helped me), but it's no guarantee. I have a close friend who on this board would be called a repper (she doesn't even know 4chan exists, and that's a good thing for her). For her it was (and continues to be) enough to manmode and keep T levels lower. For people like her, there's nothing you or society can do except not banning easy access to antiandrogens.

It is a mental disorder, at the end of the day. And just like other mental disorders, the treatment is increasingly individualized.

t. MtF from Europe

>>42043720
You say you don't hang out in queer spaces, but you do have tranny friends so even you do like to hang out among your own. I'm sort of right wingy? (Idk I grew up in the best part of bumfuck USA) but even I do wish I had others like me to hang out with.

>>42043706
>some men just get really sad if they don't have tits and get called Amanda

really? is that easy? i thought it would be more important to know where this feeling come from before handing over treatment to avoid...haphazard solutions to simpler problems.

like, if a guy came to me and told me "i am sad i don't wanna be a guy anymore" i would firts have to ask him to consider it and do some searching ito why he has those feelings (make sure its not due to recent events, make sure he doesn't have a history of bipolar disorder, ask him if this feelings are constant etc)

essentially, the difference between a short medical treatment to fix a current problem and a long life medical treatment to fix another. not really denying the existence of gender dysphoria and trans ppl, just identifying the ones that are.

maybe its just the way you phrased it and its not so fast and loose for you

>>42043491
>>42043622
The confusion u have here is that we have no PR because we are not a community. Trans spaces are like highschool u typically age out of identifying with them. The rhetoric floating around is just stuff nonbiney ppl say conflicting with rando trannys personal experience (which is different per the vast diversity of life).

>>42043747
>but you do have tranny friends so even you do like to hang out among your own

Friend. Singular. Met her by accident in 2017. Until her, 100% of my friends and acquaintances were cis. And overwhelmingly cishet too.

Idk how having a friend with gender dysphoria changes what I said about the insanity of activists and far too many tranny spaces.

>I'm sort of right wingy?

I've been a member of the "far right" party in my country for 9 years now.
But I also have a thick skin. I don't make being a tranny my whole identity.
I have much more in common with normie cishets than most trannies on social media.
We both suffer because of high taxes (the highest tax areas in the US would count as tax havens in Europe - you guys have no idea how good you have it).
We both suffer due to resource misallocation as a result of mass immigration. We both suffer from Islamic violence. And so on.

Yes, they may not fully understand gender dysphoria (though I calmly explain to anyone that asks) but so what? I don't fully understand church problems either because I'm an atheist. And I don't understand school programs spots problems because I'm not a parent.

>even I do wish I had others like me to hang out with

right wing trannies aren't that rare anymore, though. Right wing fags are definitely not rare at all.
Still, we are a tiny minority. So if we want stuff, we have to be willing to make compromises and sacrifices (like moving where others are).

Life itself is a set of trade-offs, as per Dr. Sowell, heh.

>>42043841
I was being humorous to make the point, but yeah usually we suspect it for a few years and try to avoid it and then we just cave at some point. For me it manifested as a weird "I am a girl feeling" as a teenager I tried to ignore (yes, that is all it was), and I got jealous of women and especially other trannies until I caved. There is no satisfying explanation behind it because it just sort of showed up one day and wouldn't leave.

>>42043900
i would like to be a republican (I am American so that's one of our 2 options), but their only consistent policy idea right now seems to be harassing trannies, and I cannot in good conscience support a lack of regulation on CO2 emissions knowing what I know (seriously I know the far right likes to oppose this but it is genuinely an engineering and ecomic problem at this point).

>>42043869
>we have no PR because we are not a community

Ironically, this is true but it's also controversial because of "the community"

We also allowed the whole meme of "the lgbt community" to spread among the normies even though we knew it was mostly bullshit.
Now we're surprised Pikachu face that the normies are treating us as such.

>Trans spaces are like highschool u typically age out of identifying with them

I hope you'll be proven right long term. That would be amazing!

>>42043918
Seriously that issue is one thing that I can't take a libertarian position on, my employers and I will kill you and unborn billions if you do not force us to stop.

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>>42043925
We will all reach the promise land little one. Just keep taking ur shots

>>42043491
As an outsider, what is your thoughts on my "being humiliated because I don't have a penis" kink?
Be honest.

>>42043918

>the far right likes to oppose this but it is genuinely an engineering and ecomic problem at this point

I don't oppose. I straight up deny it's an issue.
These crazy green ideas have killed the industry of Europe and made us all even poorer.

It's easy to have luxury beliefs when you're as wealthy as you are. And I mean both you Americans and you personally. The poorest 2% Americans have more living space than the upper middle class in wealthy countries of Europe.

I promise I'll give a shit when China and India are violently forced into compliance with your dopey ideas.
Until then? Fuck that. I want to be wealthier, not poorer.

With the exception of an islamic party, anyone is better than someone with "green" policy ideas. That shit is poverty fuel for my whole continent. Enough!

>>42043940

Go ahead. I'll be busy killing the regulators.
Keep producing stuff so we live better.

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>>42043973
Nta

>>42043960
a bit weird, but its ok i guess

>>42043973
Your greens aren't out to fix the problem, they are probably bought off by Russian gas interests to fuck up your nuclear industry from what I have heard anyways.

Every gallon of gasoline burned causes about 2 dollars in damages, more if you extend that calculation further into the future or use a lower discount rate. I know you think this is a political issue but its not, it is a physical system which was not meant to be tampered with.

>>42043994
You're much kinder than other people here I love you <3

>>42043999
>>42043993
>they are probably bought off by Russian gas interests to fuck up your nuclear industry from what I have heard anyways

chinese these days, but yeah.
You guys are in the same boat too - https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ccp-tied-group-quietly-fueling-us-based-climate-initiatives-tax-filings

>Every gallon of gasoline burned causes about 2 dollars in damages

You see, I don't believe that at all. It sounds to me identical to "every time you masturbate Jesus wheeps".
I don't believe Jesus is real. I also don't believe those damages are real. I believe both are the result of the sick imagination of dangerous ideologues who want to control me and make my life far worse.

Let me know when China and India are violently whipped into compliance with the green agenda. I promise to give a shit after that point.

Until then, I dismiss with impunity all of the green shit as pompous virtue signalling at best or as a political move by collectivists to steal some money and gain even more power over me in the rest of the time.

100% of all "co2 regulations" everywhere on Earth have been grifts that made foreigners richer and government stronger while making regular plebs (trans plebs included) poorer and worse off.

It's not that I "think" it's political. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. Every single time it was political.
I'll trust 100 years of incontrovertible evidence over a "trust me" from an anon on 4chan.

>>42044000
i love you too kind stranger

>>42044058
I don't care what you believe, I am the one who knows where the energy that drives our civilization comes from. A warming effect has been predicted since the 1890's, Exxon scientists predicted strong negative effects due to warming in the 1960's (the company chose to keep this secret for obvious reasons, but they did use them for future proofing refineries starting in the 1990's). No one in the energy industry invests like global warming isn't a thing anymore, though some of us play it down in marketing material.

The awful truth of this is that I know energy costs are a larger fraction of total income for the poor, I know that fossil fuels are what enable our prosperity, and we do not have the technology to avoid their use and will not for a very long time. The awful truth is that the era of cheap energy will come to a close, either on our own terms or when the costs of carbon dioxide build up and parasitize every other aspect of the economy. I am truely sorry that this is the case, but I can assure you that an intelligent solution incorporating nuclear power and strategic use of natural gas and carbon capture is probably cheap enough to subsidize so the poor don't need to worry about the increased cost.

>>42044122
i like to think that eventually we will be able to stabilize the CO2 content of earths atmosphere by introducing large amounts of alkalinity into the oceans to offset whatever fossil fuels we can't get rid of

>>42044122
>I don't care what you believe

Likewise.

>I am the one who knows where the energy that drives our civilization comes from

Yes, only you possess some secret knowledge that all of the rest of us are so oblivious to.
Get real.

>A warming effect has been predicted since the 1890's

Yes, it's what tends to happen during the end of a mini-glacial age.

>the company chose to keep this secret for obvious reasons

Conspiratorial nonsense. Basically left-coded Alex Jones.

Fact of the matter is that a warmer world is in fact a good thing for us.
Sure, it may be bad for brownoids, but so what?

>the costs of carbon dioxide

Sounds like the rapture. Neither are real.
Snap out of this insane religion, nona!

>>42044190
It's not secret knowledge, its pretty standard atmospheric science these days, a meteorologist who doesn't believe it would be considered incompetent.

Anyone who works energy will know where the CO2 emissions come from. Now look, no matter what happens we can both live a good life, but I can assure you that if the world chooses to ignore this it will not benefit. These days the cost of alternatives are low enough and we will probably be able to enhance CO2 mineralization (how fast it gets absorbed back into rock form) in the future so it definitely can be fixed at reasonable cost, it just needs to happen. I am sorry green parties are essentially useless, but you are dead wrong on this issue, the only institutions spreading what you believe are fossil fuel companies who don't want a shrunken market.

>>42044224
Also "alternatives" for most of europe are nuclear, to you wind and solar will always be expensive and shit, nuclear work good.

In most of the world they work much better but Europe has a uniquely bad climate for them once you get past Spain and Greece.

>>42044224
>I am sorry green parties are essentially useless,

They are worse than useless. They're actively harmful.
It was the green parties that abolished the nuclear energy in Belgium, Sweden and, most notably, Germany.

>but you are dead wrong on this issue

On what? That the green ideology (that you subscribe to) actively harms my country and makes us all poorer? You yourself admitted it's true.

I don't even argue the "science" at all. Idgaf if it's true or not.
I'm arguing the policies. Because those are real and entirely harmful. And you're arguing for more of that shit (except nuclear - which is good regardless of what the "global warming" freaks say).

>>42044289
Ngl most of the posturing they push for is useless or irrelevant, I don't really like them I think if the issue were framed by actual engineers and geophysicists and stuff it would make more sense. Phasing out nuclear power and importing wood for "renewable" doesn't actually do much and is harmful and expensive. Things like public transport, electric cars, nuclear power plants, that kind of stuff is what works great.

Unfortunately there is going to need to be an emissions tax in all likelihood, but like I said if we aren't retarded that can be engineered around to limit cost to the plebs. The greens also hate any kind of carbon capture which I think is dumb because so many industrial processes emit CO2 that not having it is like... how do they expect to fix the issue?

>>42043491
this is a board filled with insane people on a site for the mentally ill
You will not find any logic behind 19 year old former incels who are now on e and therefore incredibly emotionally unstable
Just read actual studies if you want to understand people.

>>42044347
hey let me lecture about the energy industry BRO, you gotta problem with a little education huh BRO?

>>42044317
but yes, the financial costs are measurable and rising. At this point its cheaper to avoid it than it is to eat the consequences.

>>42044317
>Phasing out nuclear power and importing wood for "renewable" doesn't actually do much and is harmful and expensive. Things like public transport, electric cars, nuclear power plants, that kind of stuff is what works great.

So we agree on the basics.

>Unfortunately there is going to need to be an emissions tax in all likelihood

But your solution is still to make me poorer.
As such, I'd rather stay on the far right and fight for the right not to be made purposefully poorer on the altar of an ideology.

We are already taxed to a degree that you Americans would riot if you were to experience.
The average pleb here has a fiscal burden in the mid 70s per cent. Seriously, look it up (and add VAT - most international tables forget to mention that; and add the "mandatory contributions" too).
And you want me to pay EVEN MORE tax? To think that's reasonable shows just how much of a luxury belief this is.

>how do they expect to fix the issue?

You already know the answer, you just don't want to accept it.
They don't expect to fix any issue because the issue isn't real. It's ALL a political project designed to increase power of the government against us. It's really that simple. Always has been.
But hey, the greens gender me female 99.9% of the time, as opposed to the far right who "only" gender me female ~97% of the time and apologize when they fail to do so.

>>42044424
Europe already has a carbon tax but without the industrial attitude that would allow it to be worked around, so yeah you got the worst of both worlds. China and the U.S are the ones who actually need to do something, Europe just needs to pull its head out of its ass.

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>>42044357
i ain't stoppin you brother

>>42043491
it's really simple for me. I spent my entire life being restricted by society telling me what kind of person I get to be and how I can present myself to the world. Once upon a time, I found myself in a stable and secure living situation and I was able to be whoever I wanted to be.

The person I ended up being was.. A woman. That's it. It's as simple as that. When I am allowed to be free and be myself, I am a woman. Not a man. The world tried to coerce me into being a man for a long time, but eventually the world couldn't coerce me into that anymore.

>>42044462
But yes, you kind of just have to trust me on this one. The elites totally could figure something out that would keep our bills about the same but keep the atmosphere stable, they just won't and most people aren't technical enough to understand that it could be done at all. There are too many perverse incentives to using the issue for political power or trying to ignore it to continue selling product.

>>42044462
>China and the U.S are the ones who actually need to do something, Europe just needs to pull its head out of its ass.

No. It's China and India. ONLY those.
Until those are forced to care, anything else is a political project.

First world peoples are taxed enough already.

I'm already unironically looking at the practices and tolerance of trans people in Costa Rica. I want to move my money there and stop being robbed by the EU.

Or I might go the route that my cis friends go to - UAE/Dubai. Since 2020 they decriminalized "crossdressing" and I'm passoid enough and my passport says female.
I'd rather keep my money there than to continue to be pressured from all sides to fund this nonsense.

>>42044531
look, its a physical system and it doesn't care whatever you want to believe. I'm just saying as an engineer, we can fix this if you let us and your life will be fine.

>>42044531
and you are not wrong about China and India btw, they terrify me. Like I said, Europe could probably lay off for now.

>>42043841
Most of us from a young age have this pervasive feeling of being assigned a wrong sex. Eventually we get desperate enough that we seek out medical help to live and pass as that sex. You talk about treatment but what do you suggest? Plenty of stuff has been tried over hundreds of years and clearly none has worked or we would all be hearing about it

>>42043841
Also, we do have to pass through a number of psychologists before getting the diagnosis. They do check for the delusional disorders, and they do prevent actively psychotic people from going any further

>>42043509
Nothing was really wrong with my life either. I was just convinced from a very young age that they assigned my sex wrong, and so I set out to do whatever it took to be able to live a normal life as the opposite sex. This led down to seeing a doctor, and eventually to medical transition.

>>42044531
>>42044565
>>42044541
desu i dont even know why i felt like bringing this up, its not something random people really should worry about lol

idk, it feels like people shouldn't need to explain their motivations to be the way they are or be treated as humans if they aren't hurting anyone. people just are trans and the materiality of that precedes any sort of rationalization or argument. such a thing is besides the point. which is why i never argue with transphobes.

>>42044650
Well, you brought it up in a policy discussion with someone who is a member of a political party.

The political party I'm in will be in government. So, not exactly for nothing.

Heck, if I don't get bored of politics, in another decade I might be the first transwoman minister in this country. Although I hope by then the hysteria dies out and I don't have to mention I'm trans in public like that, heh

>>42044682
>if they aren't hurting anyone

This is an important distinction though.
When I transitioned, there was no trans hysteria. So I boymoded longer and never threw a hissy fit whenever I was called "sir".

But now trannies genuinely believe they are owed everything without making any effort themselves and, even worse, call me a transphobe when I suggest things like voice training and tips and tricks to improve their lives.

The clerk at the store calling me "sir" a decade ago wasn't a transphobe. She was just a 60 year old woman who hadn't seen androgynous people. She apologized as soon as she heard my voice.

If we want to be treated right (and we should), we must also recognize that we attract what we put out. If we approach everyone with hostility or become shut-ins, let's not be surprised when we get the same energy back at us.

>>42043528
I think there are just a large number of human beings who naturally do not feel very attached to their gender, and acceptance of trans people in general has allowed them to experiment and try out different gender expressions. This is where the appearance of a rise in numbers is coming from. And that's why everyone seems nonbinary today, or are willing to live as hons who don't shave facial hair.
I think there actually are two types of trans people, and we shouldn't try to villainize each other with nonsense blanchard labels. But actually just accept it as two same but different things, kind of like type 1 and type 2 diabetes

trans women were also just part of gay guy world until we were disowned in the early 70s by gay guy and lesbian yuppies who wanted to be assimilated. but people react to us with the same reflexive revulsion that they used to react to gay guys with. it's not that different.

Cis people struggle to figure out who they are too, now imagine trying to figure that out while being trans. It's just way more complicated and humans are not good at all at reading or expressing emotions.

i agree with you that life is easier and you will be more likely to be read as a woman if you are a trans woman and do normative woman things. but you still shouldn't be treated a subhuman if you don't, imo. the indignity of trans women who don't make the efforts you discuss is for sure futile in this day and age.

>>42044709

>>42044722
>but you still shouldn't be treated a subhuman if you don't, imo

Did I say that? No, I didn't.
And no, it's not being treated "a subhuman" by being called "sir".
I'm sorry, but "be the change you want to see" is still true.

>the indignity of trans women who don't make the efforts you discuss is for sure futile in this day and age

It's not futile. Some younger tgirl will see this and keep it in her mind.
We used to have mentorship in lgbt groups. Now it's all gone in favor of hysteric screeching and endless demands + crabs in the bucket mentality.

You mention history but you don't seem to take the lesson from it.
The gay guys got what they wanted by also being reasonable and policing the screeching.

All I'm saying is to emulate what we know it works.

>>42043491
It's simple
HSTS = bitchy gay men who think they come across as women, or grumpy lesbians who think they come across as men
Intershit = actual fucked up natural development
AGP/AAP = every other tranny

>>42044886

you totally misinterpreted me.

>but you still shouldn't be treated a subhuman if you don't, imo

this was arguing against some of the stuff OP implied:

>how can ppl trust you to give the measures by which they should aid you, protect you, and most of all, know weather you are what you claim you are?

>the indignity of trans women who don't make the efforts you discuss is for sure futile in this day and age

this was aimed at trans women who do not take steps to look normatively feminine. i agree that it is unreasonable, given certain societal conditions, to expect to be called "miss" if you do not do certain things for your appearance etc.

"policing the screeching" is booing sylvia rivera, who was part of the first real transgender community? i think that you don't understand that "policing" is futile. you're in the boat with every other trans woman, whether or not you agree with how they act as trans women.

>>42045069
>you totally misinterpreted me

If that's the case, I apologize.

>"policing the screeching" is booing sylvia rivera

And?
I'm not American and I don't subscribe to American shibboleths and most definitely don't have the same heroes, either as a trans woman or as a wife or as any other role in this world.

I also disagree Rivera was part of the first "real" transgender community. Quite a few existed prior to that. Just not in Puritan USA.
The Street Transvestite Action Revolutionaries was a gigacommie short-lived operation. I don't feel represented by that at all. Quite the opposite, it's straight up repulsive.

Also, we are discussing 2025, not 1970.
We can debate some of the actions and their appropriateness at the time (and we likely agree for the most part). But today is not 1970. We don't have gangs running around trying to beat up trannies.
I mean... we do. They're called Islamic immigrants. But I can't talk about that with trannies because it's "racist" to point out that muslims are an active danger. Ironically, the gigachad rightoid is more of an ally to me than online trannies.

>you're in the boat with every other trans woman, whether or not you agree with how they act as trans women.

Well, if that's the case, then they shouldn't complain when me (and other trannies like me) start to push back and slowly remove them from positions on prominence.

This mess has to be cleaned up. Or else a more severe backlash will clean it up for us in a far less compassionate and nice way.

>>42045249

I don't see Rivera as a hero, just pointed her out as an example of policing.

Personally, I just want to be like the moms I knew growing up. I don't really understand why other trans women express themselves the way they do. But I could say the same for a lot of other women.

Anyway, we probably do agree on a lot. So I'm happy to leave the conversation there.

>>42043491
Why is hard to believe that there are multiple causes or reasons for people to transition?
I refuse to believe anyone is genuinely so stupid that something having multiple explanations is too much for their brain to handle.
>why do people die?
>old age, car accidents, guns, explosions, poison, diseases, starvation, dehydration...