My parents take me being a feminine gay man on estrogen so much better than me claiming to be a woman. Idk why, but they seem a lot more happier and accepting. They don't mind me taking hrt either, so it doesn't matter. I am a biological man anyways who somehow got gender dysphoria, probably because I developed internalized homophobia. I just like being feminine and feminine looking, and I wish to be a twinkwife of a chad someday. Anyone else feeling like this?
society prefers gay men to take estrogen
>>42113901People rly do prefer them.I will accept that I am just a feminine gay man. I will still use an androgynous name and she/her pronouns, but I will not deny my biological reality
>>42113922taking estrogen is already denying biological reality
>>42113882anon stop coping. you are a woman, accept it or die
>>42113933How?
>>42113951AGP and gender ideology is cancer.
>>42113933Taking antibiotics is denying reality
>>42113882basednow stop hrt too
>>42113951idkbut people treat me a lot more better if I say I am a gay man. It is better for me to continue coping
>>42113973i will not because I need estrogen to treat my mental illness
>>42113955because you cannot accept the femininity you have without it>>42113968>innate femininity in males is like a bacterial infection that must be treated
>>42113983internalized homophobia is an illness that is better treated by moving to a liberal place and subsequent exposure therapyif you can't do both of these, you get HSTS
>>42114005>>42114007I will continue hrt because I know it is right for me to do so because it has massively improved my life.I will have an orchi soon anyways
>>42114025okay tranny
>>42114007there are no liberal places that are free of homophobiapeople hate gays everywhere and want them to take estrogen so they are less aggressive and sexual
>>42114061but there are places where gay man can be much more out than elsewhereI mean oneathose
>>42114121anywhere on earth if you come out people see you as lesser, it may be more subtle, and people may hide it more, but they still will use it against you when convenient
>>42114151of coursebut for me personally, I'd rather face that adversity than conform to their norms
>>42114169>I'd rather face that adversity than conform to their norms>says the person self alan turing'ing themselves to conform to norms that only people who look feminine are allowed to act feminine and like men
>>42114036I am not a trannyThe definition of transgender according to wokies is by self-id (or whatever they call it)I don't claim to be trans, so I am not trans
>>42114183huh? I'm this anon>>42113973
>>42114212oh, sorry, i thought it was a tranny trying to argue taking hrt is somehow facing adversity i missed that comment
>>42114204but you are amab and prefer she/her pronouns :o
>>42114204it doesn't matter nona, you've committed transgressions against social gender, because of that you're a tranny whether you want to be or not.
>>42114404actually, yeahbut it isn't like badjust a fact
>>42114434bad means effeminately gay in old englishbeing trans is more accepted than being gay
>>42114457once again I agreeIt's harder to be openly gay than to be trans
>>42113882we werent allowed to access hrt like this in the past. legally in too deep as trans woman to return to hrt femman
>>42114005I can accept having more femininity with it
>>42114542yes, because you believe that men shouldn't be effeminatethat's bad btw
>>42114607nta, but I don't think feminine men are bad, I'm just not one. I don't relate to my body the way feminine men relate to their's; between my crippling chronic pain and having female socialized autism/ADHD, I end up alone and vulnerable.
>>42114751yeah that's exactly what it's like for feminine men as wellWe were never and will never be a strong bro, but that doesn't mean you are or have to be a woman.
>>42114007No amount of moving around was going to fix me being intersex
>>42114607Why can't men have nice little face like a woman and breasts and cute little women shape, a cute little feminine butt?
>>42114927okay yeah maybe you should have mentioned that
>>42114519most retarded thing I've read all day
>>42114949They can ig, but behaving effeminately does not necessitate this>>42114966Ok so as a tranny,1, you pass: Okay you're a woman, femininity is expected and rewarded2, you don't pass, visibly trans: Okay, you're a tranny, femininity to some degree is expectedAs a femgay:You look like a guy, people expect you to be a guy. Femininity is neither expected nor rewarded, it's punished instead.Now which of these lives sounds the hardest?
>>42115032What if they behave feminine, not effeminate?
>>42115032>You look like a guy, people expect you to be a guy. Femininity is neither expected nor rewarded, it's punished instead.This it's totally wrong. If we didn't have these extreme gender differences, maybe they wouldn't be as many transgender persons?
>>42115032Maybe drop the fagcent and go to the gymBecause the fagcent is a performance, gay men who aren't pretending to be women readily admit that it's a show they put on for the straights
>>42115126effeminacy is just femininity, when expressed by a man
>>42115032Trannies are the most hated minority in the anglosphere. Femgays aren't liked but they're not being targeted by hundreds of new pieces of legislation each year.
It’s ok to be gay
>>42115164Glad you're catching my drift>>42115169I don't have a fagcent desuIf I do sports, I like cardio, I'm not just gonna get buff to conform to some stereotypes of manhood>>42115177In popular media, yes. Irl, no.
>>42115202>popular media>1,000+ new anti tranny bills introduced in the US in 2025 aloneyou may be retarded
>>42115235its just one anon posting like that all the time to justify their victimhood or promote blanchardism by falsely claiming the conditions for hsts still exist
>>42115250They do exist hsts is just being attracted to men
>>42115235EhhHonestly I think that laws protecting trannies made transition very attractive for femgays for a while. Thus causing the giant increase in transitions over the past few years.In a sense, yes, you are experiencing a larger (negative) rate of change in judicial protection, but femgays never really attained the level of protection you were at before this started happening.Transition rates will now decrease as there isn't as much of a survival advantage to becoming a tranny anymore for femgays
>>42115264if thats all it meant then that would be me. but im not a flamer gay male barbie doll trying to trick men into fucking me since they hit anyway so like idk
>>42115289which laws protected trannies over fem gays?
>>42115289True, but this is nothing new; it's been happening over the last 35-40 years. Gay men have an easier time accepting themselves as feminine gay hsts, as adolescents, then they become masc4masc by the time they're 30. honey
>>42115313Just to name one example:Trannies being allowed to use the female bathroom.Because you know what happens to femgays a lot when they go into male bathrooms? They get beat up and/or otherwise assaulted a lot>>42115315Sorry I'm young, but still true tho ey
>>42115313No law but culturally, feminine gay men are more ostracized and marginalized than trans women who pass as women
>>42115340>Trannies being allowed to use the female bathroom.but that has always been allowed, and is still allowed everywhere other than bongland
>>42115349>who pass as womenso 0.1% of trans women. feminine gay men have it way easier than even the only kinda clocky trannies
>>42115289>life getting better for trannies created the material conditions for closeted trannies to transition obviously, no shit
>>42115359EhhSure we can go on discussing single cases, but in a more general sense, you do agree that basically every law that protects trannies, is a law that protects effeminate amabs, just under the condition that the must be trans, right?>>42115361Oh come on you do realize that to a bypassers eye and with effort, a MUCH larger percentage of trannies do pass.
>>42115389>basically every law that protects trannies, is a law that protects effeminate amabs, just under the condition that the must be transwhich laws specifically protect trannies? anti-discrimination laws? medical rights? changing id?I can't see how these rights would benefit gay men
>>42115389if just mean bypassers then no one will even know if a man is feminine or gay. a trans woman has to pass 100% of the time or they will be outed to their entire social group and employer and face transphobic discrimination as protections are not legally enforced in the few countries that even exists. feminine gay man just has to not explicitly tell everyone they take dicks in their orifices.
>>42115376I found that if I read between the lines, many trannies say>If only I were a woman, I could do X thing unashamedlybut that's really rooted in the way they were treated when they did X as a guy.Which is a shame, cause I think man would be better if we treated effeminate men better.
>>42115399>Anti-discrimination lawsYes, these specifically offer protections of femininity in amabs that cis effeminate people do not have. The rest is just consolidating these protections.>>42115404Effeminate gay men are embedded in the social norms of manhood, which I'd argue put more pressure on them than the pressure of passing puts on trannies. Or at least when those conditions arise, transition is seen as favourable over living as an effeminate man.
>>42115415We should treat effeminate men better but trannies are generally treated way way worse.
>>42115470Idk anon, even as a visibly trans person, you are not embedded in the expectations of manhood nearly as much as an effeminate man.
>>42115466feels like you are the only person saying this ever. i did not have discrimination issues post highschool as an effeminate gay man but did after transition.
>>42115483At what age did you transition?
>>42115479I've faced a whole lot more shit as a visible tranny than I ever did as an effeminate man. Trannies are subjected to the expectations of manhood growing up as well and still face that while also facing transphobia. We're in a constant catch-22 of being seen as creepy predators, effeminate men, or failed women at any given time, whichever is worse.
>>4211548929. i lived plenty as adult femme gay
>>42115466>Yes, these specifically offer protections of femininity in amabs that cis effeminate people do not have. The rest is just consolidating these protections.but gay men also have anti-discrimination lawsoften more than trans people have
>>42115501Interesting, I might claim residual trauma from HS then, but I'm not dying on this hill, just sharing my thoughts>>42115498Then why didn't you detransition?
>>42115534was losing my looks, a loss of libido on hrt was worth it to get take it back. im not hsts though since felt like a girl since early childhood.
>>42115534Because I'm a dysphoric mess too? Secondary masculinization was driving me insane.
>>42115550rewriting sentence in middle then not rereading before posting. kills me every time
>>42115514Yes, but effeminate gay men often face different challenges than more masculine gay men, which are better protected by trans anti discrimination laws.In general, I think that if there is not a purely rational reason behind transition, it is AGP. Which isn't wrong mind you, but also in a sense synonymous with transsexuality.
>>42115559>>42115550Okay so you both were 'loosing your looks'Why would that have been such a bad thing? Let's be honest by 'loosing your looks', you probably meant becoming more masculine (guys in their 30s can still look good and fresh, I know many)Is it possible that just maybe you have experienced internalized homophobia at the juxtaposition of a more masculine appearance with your effeminate behaviour?
>>42115601I wasn't even particularly pretty. It was not a loss of looks but moreso really starting to hate my body in a way that I hadn't since early puberty. I was in a weird spot as an effeminate-in-behavior but just kinda chubby bear in body. It brought back a lot of memories of suicidal ideation and I couldn't take SSRIs anymore due to the arrhythmia they were causing.
>>42115601becoming more masculine is the losing looks as it started going beyond what could rep with
>>42115645>I was in a weird spot as an effeminate-in-behavior but just kinda chubby bear in bodyIsn't this precisely what I was talking about?Because like, a body is a body, it's just that you intuitively find it weird to be a bear with effeminate behaviour because you associate with that a more masculine behaviour.I for one, love girly bears, they're such sweethearts.>>42115645It's interesting that you and I seem to use completely different frameworks when talking about this. Where you see Gender Dysphoria and Repression, I see a growing friction between appearance and behaviour due to an imprinted societal expectation between the two.
>>42115725I literally didn't have issues being an effeminate bear as like, a character thing. I rocked it, and SSRIs kept dysphoria in check enough to function. I had to quit SSRIs due to arrhythmia and my dysphoria that I had since I was 12 or so ramped up again. It's always come and gone in waves (major flare ups at 12, 14, 17, 21, and then 24 before trooning out at 25) but it became absolutely unbearable. I adore effeminate men, too. Masculine men as well. Honestly the only people that annoy me are theyFABs and chuddies. I even came to appreciate dudebros as long as they're like, kind.
>>42115725second reply obviously directed at>>42115666also, checked, aging is scary I fully agree
>>42115773Maybe you just internalized homophobia already at 12 and were keeping it at bay with the SSRIs, not dysphoria.Like, dysphoria is a set of symptoms. Just as flu symptoms are a set of symptoms that can be caused by many different viruses.Maybe it's just that these symptoms can be caused by agp and/or internalized homophobia (hsts).
I really liked that autoandrophobia idea btwLike, that is a push factor pushing you away from manhood and then you get autogynephilia which is a pull factor pulling you towards femininity on the other hand.What you feel as gender dysphoria are just these factors exerting a destressing force on your psyche
>>42115361This wasn't true 50 years ago people didn't pick up on transgender women and it was safer passes limited as a feminine gay man. What is the difference between feminine and effeminate?
>>42115837I wasn't even attracted to guys until I was like, 16, but I was passively suicidal since I was 12 and engaged in a lot of self harm that I kept secret from everyone. Had nightmares about getting too big and not fitting, hated my clothes getting too small, hated my ribcage and shoulders getting wider, all of it. I felt like I was piloting my body remotely.
