Thoughts on trans men who don’t want to pass? What is the point?
>>42138224they aren't really trans
>>42138224annoying as shit but their presence makes me respect trans men who actually take hrt and actually want to be masculine more
>>42138224Attention, narcisissm. But social trends arent real.
>>42138224Extremely based because they don't do weird things with their bodies to cope with mental issues.Just as deserving of compassion as all other transfolk.
if you're also a tranny and u get maddened by that shit youre fucking retarded. it made me mad when i was like 14 but if u are a grown adult then you are an idiot. the rhetoric that says women look this way and men look the other is bad for us. cis man dresses up like girl but still man. trans man dress up like girl so NOOO he cant be man. fuck off u winy dweebs. deconstruct the beliefs society has instilled in u. clothing and hairstyle do not equal gender. i cant believe that other troons n poons of tha world do not understand this.
>>42140650Based because they make nerds seethe online because they'll never be as hot as them
>>42140650you seem more mad than anyone here
>>42140650the problem for me is that people like this often do not really relate to or socialize with people of their preferred gender. so if you don't physically transition, you don't socially transition, and you don't see any part of yourself in the concept of manhood, why identify as a man at all?
>>42138224If they are on t or cut their tits off, valid desu
>>42140678>people of their preferred genderCan you really blame them? Imagine how a group of cis male normies would treat the dood
>>42140687i regularly spoke with cis men pre and post transition. they weren't any more or less shitty than the women i knew and now that im stealth its even less of an issue. i still have more female friends but i think many ftfemboy types (even the ones that transition) are very afraid or resentful of cis men and unwilling to befriend them outside of romantic relationships, which is what strikes me as odd
fakepoon larpers
>>42140712>ftfemboy types (even the ones that transition) are very afraid or resentful of cis menSee poon rape stats. If you were ugly lesbian that transitioned into a normal looking guy you have very different experiences. Also lots of parents install fear of men into their daughters
>>42140729Nta but rape stats aren't about your friends and homies raping you... It's likely your romantic partner/family member when you were young or something. At worst you're a third worlder experiencing actual corrective rape.
>>42140729i think it's normal to fear men, but what's unusual to me is that the fear and resentment goes beyond what's normal in the women i know. like, most women i know have at least 1 or 2 cis male acquaintances or friends, but frequently i'll see 'hefab' ftms who do not interact with cis men on any level outside of sex >>42140749also agree. like, i'm talking about people who don't talk to their male coworkers and even their internet friends are all women or other ftms. many of them even avoid gay men.
>>42138224ftfemboys are a cognitive hazard and special kind of dysphoria inducing cia psyop weapon
>>42140766>many of them even avoid gay men.Bad experiences do that
>>42140785Nope. Ftm femboys who actually transition (t and surgery) are beautiful. See benji.bunny tiktok
>>42140766>like, most women i know have at least 1 or 2 cis male acquaintances or friendsMost women are not like this
>>42140766>many of them even avoid gay men.Holy shit that's me... I'm a gayden and I avoid cisgays... But it's not because they don't accept me, I'm just not attracted to them. A lot of them are squares, UwU nuzzles u furries, or live a completely different version of "gay" than I do. No hate to cisgays, we just ain't cool like that.
>>42140803sorry, most of the women in your life arent friends with at least 1 man..? not even gay men, acquaintances, neighbours, classmates, coworkers? i'm not saying it has to be a special bond with 1000% trust, but i can't name a single woman in my life who isn't friendly with men at all>>42140787men face violence from other men all the time and, while they may develop a fear of other men, still ultimately behave as men in the male social role and socialize with other men. i've noticed non-transitioning ftms do not follow that behavior. it's not just a lack of medical transition, but a lack of willingness to be socialized as male. i don't think this is a crazy thing to say lol
>>42138224I think they're having some fun, joking around, and generally doing things that will get their socials boosted in viewsthere is also definitely a trend of ppl that base things on totally removed theoretical concepts and arguments, usually even heard secondhand or like only after an intro college classbut I don't think that anyone genuinely lives according to those theories, since there is a lot of effort in some of this stuff, it's not an accident of living but intentional expressionsome might think that it's like a protest against gender norms, or like performance sort of like in a similar vein to drag shows iunno
>>42138224I'm a man and I want to look like that tooCis and trans men can be feminine, so I think they're fine. But ofc they won't pass
>>42140841>I'm a man and I want to look like that tooaren't you an mtf repper? i just saw you in wipg
>>42140879Wanting to pass(looking like a girl) is not the same as being a girl
>>42140882ultimately on a social level being a female-passing femboy would be indistinguishable from living as a transgender woman
>>42140908Gender is not about looks but your inner world
>>42140908No, I'd get dysphoria if I'm treated as a female
>>42140820>men face violence from other men all the time and, while they may develop a fear of other men, still ultimately behave as men in the male social role and socialize with other menThis is different. These men are not treated like rape meat women. Also some gay men are very hostile about the idea of trans men. They write stories about how trans men trick them to have hetero sex and act very cruely. I have lots of empathy for these trans men.
>>42140913>>42140916imo, gender is a social category you are placed to based on your assumed sex. obviously there's an internal identity component, but ultimately the biggest factor to your gender category is how you are treated by the people around you. in the same sense that a white-passing biracial person might identify as black, but they are still racially perceived as white.passing as female is the same thing as living as a woman. in the society we live in, there is no way to live as a woman without passing & there's no way to fully pass as female without being treated like a woman.
>>42140925not sure why this isn't getting across, but my broader point is that hefab types tend to be opposed to any aspect of living as a man. physically being male, socially adhering to manhood, and interacting with men or being in male social circles. my question is, when you take away all of those things, what's left for the word man to mean? yes, trauma this and trauma that, but ultimately if you can't relate to other men, you don't want to pass as male, and you don't feel the need to behave masculinely, what's the point of transitioning? what does transition even mean for that person?
>>42138224i prefer this type of trans man because they accept that they have a female body and are better off going for the yaoi aesthetic than trying to be the same thing as a cis man
>>42140953>what's left for the word man to meanIdentity, physical form
>>42140947>passing as female is the same thing as living as a woman.No, as females have bodies that males do not and experience things like ovulation, pregnancy, child birth and periods.Gender is how you identify, you can be a man and live in a female body that does female things.You think that how some rando genders you should have more weight to your identity and self image than your own inner world?
Why can't they just properly identify themselves as enbies if they're gonna live, act and present like enbies?
>>42138224another way to be 'not like other girls'. not much else.>>42140650you do not push the envelope as an afab by doing this stuff, you only push it back. it actually has to be grounded in something to matter. if you look, sound and act female, and just randomly adopt a male label, you're not doing anything except devaluing the idea that men and women can deviate from these trends. you're inadvertently reinforcing gender roles by doing something so unconvincing to the normie mind. try this rhetoric in 100 years when men and women can actually wear shit without being called fags / dykes!words actually mean something, even if they're socially constructed. men and women exist (because they grew up in a world where they had to contend with those categories). there is no such thing as freedom of expression, or freedom in general. you can only resist through the labels provided to you. but almost all people fail even in that. you can separate these things in the abstract, but not in reality.another problem with this kind of rhetoric, beyond it being incredibly naive and ineffective, is that it in itself is conforming to consumer-capitalistic language, while playing defense for it. fashion does mean gender; it means identity, which means a consumer you can profit off. these trender types are engaging very heavily in identity formation through fashion. and i think it's unlikely that's completely separate from their male identity. both are a product of the increasing rhetoric of "you can be anything you want! be y one day and x the next!" they don't want to deconstruct categories; that takes away a certain allure of 'becoming' this exciting thing with all those wonderful associations, thus reducing purchases. they just don't want it to be contradictory to buying this other product they make.
>>42140991>females have bodies that males do notnot sure what your point is here. living as a woman goes beyond having a female body & people who are perceived as female are at greater risk of gender-based violence and misogyny. you'll also note that what i actually said was that female-passing femboys live lives indistinguishable from those of *transgender* women, not cisgender women. >You think that how some rando genders you should have more weight to your identity and self image than your own inner world?i think that outside perception of your gender is the only thing that materially changes how you are treated and impacted by gender roles, so yeah i guess. inner world and identity aren't the major decision makers in whether you'll experience misogyny, homophobia, etc. gender is a social construct, and by its nature your gender is determined socially. i'm not saying your feelings don't matter, i'm saying that we're not a telepathic species and your thoughts have to be translated into words and actions to be able to affect your life. i can think to myself i'm straight all i want but as long as i keep bringing boyfriends home to meet my parents i'm not living as a straight man>>42140974>physical formwe are talking about people who do not want to pass as male, meaning their forms are likely not masculine>identitybut that's my question. again, if you don't relate to men socially, you don't want to look like a man, you don't want to interact with men, you don't want to be treated like a man, then what part of manhood do you identify with? what's left?
>>42138224trans men arent real
>>42138224They’re intentionally mocking trans identity for clicks and views. No different than walsh claiming he’s a woman, youre supposed to think its ridiculous.
>>42141032Nta You're too surface level with it right now. You're giving cisgender people unearned authority in how "men" (made up concept) present and behave, thus all other versions of men must behave like them or else they don't count.
>>42141062i don't think you have to act like a macho man cisgender guy to be a man, i am a sensitive and effete man myself. i think the only part of being a man that matters socially is being visually perceived as male, and you can act however you want. i also think that if a transgender man neither desires to be seen as male visually nor treated like a man socially, it doesn't make sense for him to describe himself as a man, since he would prefer to live as a woman or nb in every way that matters.
>>42141062>all words are made up by humans, therefore words have no meaning
>>42141081>visually perceived as maleBut they're not male. Essentially it requires one group to assimilate while the other gets automatic affiliation. Thus, giving cisgender people authority over the made up concept while everyone else has to meet their requirements.
>>42141062masculinity is defined by cishet society. no other kind exists.
>>42141092I never said that btw... I'm talking about concepts and ideas, not the definitions of words. Nuance n shit. >>42141104>no other kind existsNot for those trapped in their bubble, unfortunately.
>>42141081adding on, as minorities we do not have claim over how the word man is defined. man is a social category and the definition of manhood, along with the expectations that come with it, are determined by the social majority. these things can change over time but only when the dominant viewpoint changes. i think if all goes well we will eventually live in a society where identity genuinely is the main factor. but realistically that's not where we are now. it would be nice to not have to be a materialist about gender but i think you know as well as i do that right now "man" boils down to an appearance-based position in a social dynamic.>>42141098the vast majority of people in our society are cisgender. they have authority over the definition of gender because gender is socially defined. gender abolition is, generously, decades away. you may not like it, i don't even like it, but it's where we're at as a society.
>>42141110>Not for those trapped in their bubblethere is no trans society, lol, not large-scale. we exist as a subculture and a controversial, politically contentious one at that. we cannot operate independently. there is not and will never be a trans ethnostate. you cannot escape cisgender perception. at some point you will have to go to the grocery store
>>42141110>i'm so special i've resisted all my socialisation!that is such unbelievable cope. it's not that easy.
>>42138224agplook at himdressed like a granny
and, mind you, even other trans people aren't likely to fully perceive non-transitioners as their preferred gender. if we were to pluck out the people who have fully resisted gender socialization and reached tranny nirvana that would be like 12 people max
>>42141114>>42141118>the vast majority of people in our society are cisgenderDood... no way... Lol seriously though, it's not required for there to be a trans ethnostate for differing cultural ideas to emerge.>>42141123I don't even know what you're saying. Why you keep bringing up new stuff each time?
>>42141160differing cultural ideas have already emerged, more than 50% of zoomers think trans women are women. but the fact is we're years away from full-on gender abolition and without that we're never going to get to a point where emo fujoshi venus of willendorf can put on a he/him pin and be genuinely seen as a man by anyone, including other trans people
>>42141177>. but the fact is we're years away from full-on gender abolitionYes I am aware. Is this news to you?
>>42141199it seems to be news to you since you've spent 30 minutes arguing against it
>>42138224mentall illnessif you are trans MAN you want yo look like a MANif you are trans WOMAN you want to look like a WOMANthere are 3 genders: MAN, WOMAN, ANYTHING BETWEEN aka non-binaryif you are a cis male, but look feminine, aka femboy, you are nonbinaryif you are a cis female, but look masculine, aka tomboy, aka butch lesbian, you are non binaryany person that doesnt look like a identifiable man or woman, is by default non-binarybinary /ˈbʌJn(ə)ri/adjective 1. relating to, composed of, or involving two things.binary genders, the two "traditional genders", man and womannon-binary. something that isnt binary, something that isnt these 2 genderssimple as, if you allow someone to label themselves as a MAN but then look more woman than man, what is the point? you are just removing the meaning of labels
>>42141018>>42141032dont waste your breath on em lol
