Why are ftms so insecure in their masculinity?
Well they should be, they have literally no ballsAlso imagine being a cis male and relying on T injections to survive that'd be extremely emasculated
Because it's superficial? Masculinity isn't a look. It's more than an identity. It's a reality.Some women and pooners can mimic a couple of actions but they don't realize the actions are a product of function and form follows function. You look like a man cause you do man stuff, you do man stuff because you're a man, you're a man because that's the constraints you're physical reality put on you. Anything else is fantasy.
>>42150558That argument is circular: it defines “man stuff” as whatever men do, then uses that to prove only men can do it. Many traits labeled “masculine” are learned behaviors shaped by culture, incentives, and context—not inevitable products of biology. Biology sets some constraints, but function doesn’t uniquely determine identity or behavior, and history is full of counterexamples where women and trans men perform the same functions just as effectively. Calling everything outside a narrow definition “fantasy” avoids engaging with evidence rather than addressing it.
>>42150558>You look like a man cause you do man stuff, you do man stuff because you're a man, you're a man because that's the constraints you're physical reality put on you. Anything else is fantasy.What a womanly argument. Reminds me a lot of fat bitches on social media insisting cis women are heckin valid no matter what they do or how they present themselves.
>>42150612Insults about who’s speaking don’t address whether the argument is true, they just signal you don’t have a counterpoint.
>>42150576You're trying to define something in a vacuum by a specific set of principles. Like biology for instance. It's more than that. The myriad of different factors from the biological, to the psychosocial convinced with fluid traits such as how their neurology evolves when exposed to particular things... Those are just vertical slices drained of the reality of actually experiencing being a man. They're not incorrect, but they don't add up to the sum of being a guy either. Don't agree that it's circular. Think it just flows in the opposite direction than what you understand it though. If pooners actually lived and acted and thought like dudes people would be more skeptical of them being women than them being dudes
>>42150640Saying “being a man is the lived sum of manhood” doesn’t explain what uniquely causes that sum—it assumes it. Psychosocial traits, learned behaviors, and neurological changes come from experience and environment, which trans men also undergo; they aren’t exclusive evidence of birth sex. And if perception determined reality, then widespread social recognition of trans men already undercuts your final point.
>>42150612I look like a dude cause i do dude shit, superficially i look rougher and me masculine cause that's how i live. I live that way cause it seems natural to me to live that way. I gravitate to things that let me express that I'm strong and capable, i look at problems from the ground up in order to assess and address any problems, I take stock and make decisions because if i do not, no one will do it for me. Not a single person doubts I'm a guy. Without having to bust out my dick and balls. I could wear a burka and people would know i was a dude.You can't refine that into a pill, it doesn't exist in testosterone shots. It's my reality.
>>42150624I do have a counterpoint. Unlike femininity, masculinity is conditional and behavioral. It has been in every culture on the planet pretty much. The very fact that the phrase "be a man" survives in our modern lexicon is proof of this and indicates that there's a significant subset of biological males who are, based on their behavior, not perceived as "real men" by the speaker. This further implies that manhood is learned and embodied (typically through struggle and tests of one's mettle) rather than inherent, and logically it follows that anyone can therefore theoretically learn and embody these traits and culturally become a man.Anyway, I'm off to buy a birthday gift for my mom. Have a nice day.
>>42150558Haha no>>42150462What a beautiful boy>look rougher and me masculine cause that's how i liveMen don't have to look rough. You choose to be ugly
>>42150696That counterpoint undermines itself. If masculinity is learned, behavioral, and embodied rather than inherent—and if “be a man” shows manhood is conditional even among biological males—then biology alone can’t be the deciding factor. By your own logic, if manhood is something people can fail at, earn, and embody through behavior and experience, there’s no principled reason to exclude trans men who do exactly that.
>>42150696>Unlike femininity, masculinity is conditional and behavioralNope, man is a man. No matter how he behaves.
>>42150661>transmen are treated identically and thus are menNo. Absolutely not.I'm not sharing space with an AFaB that started shooting T at age 20 and some people kind of treat as a male is well after formative psychology is done and very well after utero development, which already sets a whole set of properties in motion.
>>42150702That’s just an assertion, not an argument. If behavior is irrelevant, then earlier claims about masculinity being earned, tested, or embodied collapse—and “be a man” becomes meaningless. You can’t have manhood be both unconditional and behavior-defined at the same time.
>>42150462Because they're men.
>>42150717That position treats development as fixed and exclusive, which isn’t supported by evidence. Psychology and neurology remain plastic well into adulthood, hormones produce significant physiological and behavioral changes, and social recognition shapes lived experience. Drawing an absolute boundary at birth or early development is a value judgment, not a biological necessity—and it doesn’t justify excluding people who demonstrably occupy the same social and functional roles.
>>42150661>EnforcedUndercuts that it's accepted doesn't it. Also i recognize an argument ad populum when I see one.>Learned behaviorsSure, but even the most basic psychology student knows learned behaviours are impacted by when they are learned. I learned them when I did because I was always a man. Trans will always have to play catch up to that and will always have to assume they know what it feels like to be a man. For me, it was intrinsic to my reality.
>>42150728There are so many aspects of personality that can't be destroyed. Tempered, maybe, but there, haunting how you see the world and interact for your whole life.The behavioral differences in transmen are highly relevant if you stick one into a group of men.God, I almost hate them.
>>42150696>Social conditioning in order to illicit compliance from a 3rd party is a useful indicator of masculinity Also, pretty liberal use of modern vernacular with the assumption it's timeless.
>>42150678>I look like a dude cause i do dude shit, superficially i look rougher and me masculine cause that's how i live. I live that way cause it seems natural to me to live that way. I gravitate to things that let me express that I'm strong and capable, i look at problems from the ground up in order to assess and address any problems, I take stock and make decisions because if i do not, no one will do it for me.That is really not how any of that works. I could paint my nails sparkly pink and put on a pink party dress right now and still be (visibly as well) more of a man than you at entirely no effort. Worse: I could go to bed in that dress and wake up tomorrow, again zero effort, even more of a (bearded, smelly) man. I could spend that entire day doing the most "girly" activities imaginable and still be more of a man than you can ever possibly hope to become with all the effort in the entire fucking world.We are not the same. We are not in the same league.
>>42150734That still assumes what it’s trying to prove. Saying you learned behaviors earlier because you were “always a man” just restates your belief, it doesn’t demonstrate it. Timing affects learning, but it doesn’t make later learning inauthentic or merely “assumed”—many core traits (values, coping, social roles) are formed and re-formed well into adulthood. Calling your experience “intrinsic” doesn’t make others’ experiences invalid; it just describes yours.>>42150741Personality isn’t fixed in the way you describe—human behavior and identity are plastic and shaped by experience, hormones, and social context well into adulthood. Acting or thinking like a man doesn’t require being assigned male at birth; trans men can and do occupy the same social, behavioral, and emotional roles. Hating someone for being trans reveals bias, not an objective truth about their capabilities or “fit” in a group.
>>42150748>Calling your experience “intrinsic” doesn’t make others’ experiences invalid; it just describes yours.Are these the spells they teach at gender-hogwarts?Honey, let me be the one to tell you: magic isn't real.
>>42150746Are you assuming I'm a pooner cosplaying at being a man? Your argument falls apart because you actually have no idea what my biological gender is, which I assume is the basis for your definition of masculinity.
>>42150748>trans men can and do occupy the same social, behavioral, and emotional roles.I do actually agree with this but similarly, a man could choose to perform all the tasks of a mule. That man would of course still be a man,even if he were to paint himself gray and wear a sadle and look very very similar to a mule.
>>42150771>biological genderYou mean sex?And yes, your writing very strongly suggests that you're not cismale/amab/whatever term you'd prefer.
>>42150462He's an attractive gigapassoidI am envious
>>42150748You've never had to unlearn a bad habit have you? Everything you learn leaves an indelible mark. The neural pathways you develop, you get them for life. So XX will always be part women and never fully a man. They recognize this instinctively and so will forever question if they are masculine enough.Trans will always have the psychological and social and biological marks of their time as their original sex. It fundamentally alters their ability to fully become the opposite gender.Otherwise there's a difference between intrinsic and mimic. Trans will forever mimic because it's not intrinsic.
>>42150806No it doesn't. It doesn't suggest anything except i firmly believe I am a man and that my reality reflects that. The rest is your own projection.
>>42150462Most men are insecure in general. It's because masculinity is earned and maintained over time, it isn't just something you have. And let's be real... Doing shit is hard.Being there for people when it's inconvenient, sacrifice, delayed gratification, being involved with the family, emotional vulnerability, empathy, assertiveness, and resilience are all hard. A lot of people don't have fathers, and even more have fathers who are present yet emotionally avoidant. There are also neet uncles who live with grandma, cousins who are in and out of jail, mid boyfriends who buy cluster rings because they don't know their partner... The list goes on. A lot of men understand they are beta males. Below average in performance. But to acknowledge that requires them to change. The only winning move is to whine online, complain about women, and be insecure while avoiding personal responsibility.
>>42150860The feminine projection is real.Men are subject to the requirement of active agency. They are responsible for everything they do or don't do. And not as some 3rd party judgement. But as a matter of existence. If they don't do something themselves, it does not get done. Because they aren't seen as needing care, they aren't seen as weak, you yourself just described that they are barely given that even as children.Women on the other hand? Mildly condescended to whilst offered unconditional support because they aren't as physically imposing. Also lol because a few of those examples you made are pretty specific.
>>42150887>If they don't do something themselves, it does not get done.That's bare minimum for being a man, really. What's the problem? Seems like we agree.>Also lol because a few of those examples you made are pretty specificI always make really specific examples
>>42150951Bare minimum that women seem to be exempt from. Also it counters your point about insecurity. If you're an active agent, your "security" is irrelevant. You do it or it doesn't get done. Not sure if that makes men cognitively less insecure, but in practice it does. Then again, women are so dissociated from the practical we ended up with the extremely retarded man vs bear debate.
>>42150978Anon, this is a conversation about men. You know... us? I assume you're a man, anyway. I honest to God do not give a fuck about what they're doing right now. You know, in the conversation we are having about OUR GROUP. This is not the time to immediately pop up and start whining about "women don't do this, women don't do that". God damn, we can't have one conversation as niggas without you heifers bringing up women? If you don't like it here, you can transition. >If you're an active agent, your "security" is irrelevant.If they are an active agent, it's unlikely that they are insecure. If they are insecure and somehow "active", they're doing the bare minimum. There's more they know they should be doing.
>tfw secure a f in my masculine energyFeels good
>>42151005You have no idea what the masculine energy you have is. Do you think dudes get a jolt in their dingle when they feel masculine energy? Lol. You should just feel like yourself.
>>42151126I feel myself and like myself so that's basically the same
>>42151182I bet you feel yourself you dirty little fuck moppet.
>>42151256Uhm yeah I just said that, that hardly something you could bet on, are you unaware how gambling works?
>>42151260Just give it catchy horse names.>Five hundred on ferocious fingerThough maybe boxing >He'll go down as soon as the other guy is in the ring, no way he'd last through such a ferocious onslaught to his guts and jaw Okay fine, i doubt a gaming commission would approve the bet.Still, fuck moppet. Lol
>>42151326You're mom, nerd
>>42151433Okay, uh.. clean your room. I'm proud of you for succeeding. I made you some cookies. And uh, do you need help with your homework?I really don't know how to do this mom thing.
>>42150462He is so pretty
>>42150462Because they're women and women have self awareness. Trans women are men that why you don't see them acting like this
>>42151776I cleaned my apartment already, thanks tho
>>42150462Who is this beautiful boy?
Why are birds so insecure about being cats?
