Help me understand something.If a trans person is anyone who doesn't conform to the traditional genders, wouldn't that make gay and lesbian people trans as well?Also, if gender is largely a social construct, why is it necessary for a trans person to be affirmed if it's made anyway? Isn't it more efficient and straightforward to just express yourself intuitively, rather than all aligning yourself to what is functionally a new gender ?
>>42183956>If a trans person is anyone who doesn't conform to the traditional gendersit's not
>>42183959That's what it says on Wikipedia
>>42183964no it doesn't
>>42183956Tourist?
>>42183986I'm curious and I would like answers.
>>42183956>Help me understand something.no
try gender studies. lots for a curious mind to read
>>42184004Why not?
>>42184011I thought it would be more practical to pick the brains here.
>>42184013cuz i dont feel like it :o
>>42184021I wish you were identifying as someone open minded and helpful. I'll try again later then.
>>42183956Gender should be something to be assumed and the so called "non-binary" is nothing but utter nonsense. I believe in gender expression freedom but not made up genders. -HRT twink
>>42184046agreedyou're a woman though
>>42184002You read something about non binarys there are binary trans people most trans people are binary and adhere to whatever gender they transitioned to no gay or lesbian people aren’t trans any other questions?
>>42184046Glegle is nonbinary backstabber
>>42184046See, I agree with you to an extent. I enjoy the genderqueer aesthetics, but I think it's unbelievably foolish to introduce hormones into your body for what is essentially a fetish.
>>42184057I'll rephrase my initial question to bring it in line with your definition.If a trans person is someone who identifies as the opposite gender, and gender is largely a meaningless social construct, then why is it important to affirm your gender identity. Wouldn't it make more sense to just lvie your life naturally, rather than try and align yourself with some new label that you must adhere to?
>>42184028im identifying as someone who likes wasting your time
>>42184064>introducei have some bad news for you anon...
>>42184078I'm trying to be less hateful, you're making this difficult for no reason.
>>42184081You know what I mean. It serves no one to be pedantic and spiteful.
>>42184082you do not exhibit the behaviour of someone with sincere quesions; you are not sincere.
>>42184071>If a trans person is someone who identifies as the opposite gendera trans person is someone who feels like / wants to be the opposite sex
>>42184086why are innate hormones not foolish but introduced ones are?
>>42184091This opens up new question. Why would someone want to be the opposite gender? How would someone know if they've successfully emulated the opposite gender?
>>42184091It’s bait stop interacting
>>42184098I know how I look, and it doesn't matter to me. I just want answers, there's dissidence in my brain.
>>42184046>>42183956Roses are red,Violets are blue.If you look like a man,I'm not calling you ma'am.
>>42183956Any lgbt person can conform to gender norms in terms of jobs or clothing if they want
>>42184051To be honest, I wouldn't really mind if you use she/her pronouns on me but if one were to ask what's my gender it'll always be male instead of "non-binany" or whatever it calls. And no I'll not voice trian as that's not the type of aesthetic I'm aiming for.
>>42184135The fact you're attention whoring so much in this thread just proves you'll always be woman. You're just DESPERATE for attention.
>>42183956Dysphoria = transBut imo, if you don't have some kind of intersex trait, you shouldn't be allowed hrt
>>42183956>If a trans person is anyone who doesn't conform to the traditional genders, wouldn't that make gay and lesbian people trans as well?Only if you consider fucking men to be gender-nonconforming, so it could arbitrarily be either. And only if being trans were anyone who's behavior is gendernoncomforming, which it isnt>Also, if gender is largely a social construct, why is it necessary for a trans person to be affirmed if it's made anyway? Isn't it more efficient and straightforward to just express yourself intuitively, rather than all aligning yourself to what is functionally a new gender ?Hard to answer because you're not clear on what "affirming" is. If you mean gender affirming care, its because being in a body you hate is psychologically distressing, which is what actually does make you trans. Social affirmation is a subset of that, but also the pointy end of where scientific observations about human psychology and culture stop playing nice with the social rules we inherited
>>42184233By affirming I mean emulating. I thinky point here is that it's very subjective and nebulous. I think it's directly counterintuitive to want to emulate something that doesn't ultimately matter.
>>42184096>Why would someone want to be the opposite gender?you think I know that? Why would someone want to put their dick in a shithole? Humans are weird idk>How would someone know if they've successfully emulated the opposite gender?usually usage of feminine/masculine (whichever fits in the particular question) linguistics by other people or acceptance/lack of notable reaction when using facilities reserved typically for one genderIn polish the former is much easier to notice due to the fact that every verb and adjective is gendered, making them largely instinctual and based on how you look
>>42184245But that's gonna be subjective as well. You can't rely on people being honest if they're just trying to appear polite. I guess someone who gets into this sort of thing isn't very good at validating themselves.
>>42184245Why is it always polish people?
>>42184251To continue this line of reasoning. Let's say I declare myself to be a woman, and literally everyone agrees with me and believes me. If I don't believe it, does that still make me a woman? Is gender just pure belief?
>>42184275Wait a fucking second. If it's just belief, AKA FAITH, how is this not a religion?
>>42184241Money is real. You can hold a dollar in your hand. Its just a lump of metal and the metal's value is less than the value of the dollar, but its a dollar. Why? Because the real part of the dollar isnt the thing in your hand, but the thing in your mind. The world runs on dollars because the mind runs on dollars. Gender is a social construct. Its nonphysical and arbitrary, just like money. But its not "fake". Gender is as real, and important. To some people it's worth dying over.
>>42183956your definition is wrong, thougha trans person wants to be seen as the opposite sexgender is a feminist myth and a cope, in reality, we just have different sexed behaviors baked into us in the womb
>>42184301That's a dishonest comparison. Money was invented on purpose, gender was only discovered by accident. Humans having been falling into gender roles for thousands of years before they started labelling everything.
>>42184275>If I don't believe it, does that still make me a woman?well yeahgender is externally identified, as it's an identifieridentifiers exist as a way to - you guessed it, identify people>>42184280wait you're just a retarded baiter why am i wasting my time on you kill yourself
>>42184320it's also just flat wrongtotally asocial animals have sex differences which correspond to everything feminists called gender in humansonce you notice that literally everything feminists, sociologists and psychologists ever claimed about humans is fake and political you can start making sense of the way people actually behave
>>42184301Also, this fails to address my point. If gender, like money, is just a social construct with no connection to physical, objective reality, then why change it?
>>42184327Don't give up on me, make me understand.
baiter could read a book but everybody keeps taking the bait
>>42184337>no connection to physical, objective realityyou are the one that claimed that. Do you think that if you burn all of your money, it won't have physical consequences on your life?
>>42184366I'll be honest. My heart is full of hatred, and I can't cope with living in a world where everyone believes this trans stuff anymore. I want to understand to I can live with them.
We're going in circles now. I'll try again later.
>>42184320>>42184337You miss the point. Money is connected to physical utility by our perception of value. Gender is connected to the physical by our innate sense of bodily integrity and sexual preference. People pick at acne because we have very very strong drives to maintain our bodies. Even snakes dont bite their own tails, its an instinct as old as life. Beyond that we have drives to groom ourselves for certain appearances to raise our chances of getting a mate.Some of that is innate and some is learned, but its all fundamental to body dysmorphias in general and gender disphoria in specific. The goal is to treat acute psychiatric distress caused by a body that doesnt match the expectations of these systems.
>>42184405If I felt disconnected from my body I'd probably want real psychiatric help instead of just being enabled by a sea of liars. I wouldn't want to force people to lie for my sake.
>>42184503There, now we're getting somewhere. Lets look at the assumptions in that>If I felt disconnected from my body I'd probably want real psychiatric help You personally see it as a psychological issue. Someone else may feel their mind is right and their body is wrong. Medically we dont know where gender is in the brain, so theres no objective way to say for sure. But regardless thats not a doctor's job. Their job is to provide solutions, and we know that transition is effective at relieving that pain. Theres no scientific or medical reason to object to the current treatment protocols here, just you projecting your own strong sense of gender>enabled by a sea of liars.Again, liars only from your own frame of view>I wouldn't want to force people to lie for my sake.And perhaps you would choose to suffer indefinitely as a result, but again this hinges on a belief about gender that YOU hold. So lets ask, what do you believe about gender? That will help us untangle that issue from the medical ethics issues you're bundling it up with
