the prosecuted, ugly, and deformed are closer to god than normies

>>42264160
I'm an atheist but whoever studies religious texts are probably the ones closer

>>42264155
>queer
any universe where that's a thing is probably a universe where normal people are repulsed by the community

>>42264220
no, there are allies in this world
surely in another universe people would be more accepting

there are religious trans people who post on this board
threads like these make me want to ask one of my friends about her relationship with God but i worry that would be invasive and rude because i very much do not believe and do not think i could, even if i would like to

>>42264155
what are you talking about, loads of queer people are religious in this exact world

>>42264346
i thought that also until like three years ago. i found myself a good church and that did most of it desu

>>42264350
i mean it would be much more accepted. 95% of all anti-lgbt stuff i see online is from christians

>>42264176
People can get themselves closer to God by studying religious texts, and it's good to, but the person you replied to had a point.
The whole point of the Christian religion is that God made himself lower, became a human and let himself be born not into a palace but into a manger.
The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit.
Psalm 34:18

>>42264372
If people weren't Christian, it'd come from somewhere else. China is pretty homophobic and it's state-atheist. East Germany is the most far-right region of Germany and is ~90% nonreligious.
People just find an excuse to hate. The hate just comes from Christians because your cultural context has a lot of Christians

>>42264357
how long did it take? was it difficult? how do you reconcile your belief now with your disbelief before? pardon me please but even as a child it always seemed sort of like fairy tales and i don't know how tonget that out of my head. i can't imagine going in with these thoughts and somehow totally turning around
i thought about finding a church recently and never did, though; maybe the problem is that i am not actually committed to my desire to believe :(

>>42264386
yeah
in some ideal world lgbts wont be hated for not abiding to some heteronormative society

>>42264397
about two years of discerning i think. i was baptized but my parents were both not religious. i was never confirmed (most protestants that do infant baptism do that for teenagers) and left the church. i think for me in my childhood it was a lot like with you.
i got to my first church for me because i needed something from them, i stayed for some events and for the first time really took the effort to think about these questions seriously, which i never really did before. i kind of brushed it all off before, and now i kinda can't brush off that there has to be at least some truth to the story of Jesus and the arguments in favour of a God (contingency and all that).
if you really want to believe, just look for a mainline protestant church around you. most of them are accepting and have pretty small congregations and the pastor will have time for you. if you tell them that you want to believe i'm sure they'll have a conversation with you and you can see if it's something for you

>>42264422
I'm just trying to tell you that the problem isn't that queer people and religion just won't fit together. They can and they do. There are plenty accepting places and if you're american, theres a mainline protestant church with a woke lady pastor down the street pretty much everywhere

>>42264160
amen. i think trans are angels

>2000 years of persecution
I don't want peace. I want revenge

>>42264176
The "religious" texts are the farthest from god there is.

>>42264439
i know
>>42264444
you talk the same way like some transphobes. "trans are men!" thats not how you use the word.

>>42264439
Nobody is saying that religion has a monopoly on homophobia, but you can't act like abrahamic religions aren't the greatest catalysts for LGBT oppression in history.

>>42264452
omg youre insufferable

>>42264439
For every "woke" church, there's a thousand traditional ones still indoctrinating their children to hate gay people and themselves if they're gay.

>>42264346
You can develop spirituality without the need of the bible or christianity, you know

>>42264459
well, yeah, but mostly because most of our recorded history about lgbt stuff is from abrahamic religious cultural contexts and like two thirds of the world belong to an abrahamic religion

>>42264467
if you care to change things, then do, and if you don't, then don't complain from the outside.
also according to pew research the majority of us christians think gay marriage should be legal

>>42264487
us as in united states not us as in we

>>42264467
exactly. lgbt people in red states will forever remain closeted till the day they die or kill themselves
or move away

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>>42264491

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>>42264459
its sad too, because the bible is for trans people. it never says anything anti-trans. it says to be yourself.
they mistranslated the word Saris too, to eunich, when it does NOT mean eunich.
Saris more closely means mtf
Jesus does a whole thing about how Saris are holy
then in the old testament it says Saris are the holiest and get more in heaven then those who have kids
and in gnostic scripture theres all kinds of stuff about transgender being the only way to eternal life

>>42264494
most republicans are against same sex marriage
>>42264498
>it never says anything anti-trans.
exactly, just any excuse to hate queers. this is def because they just view it as "gay" and they hate gays
its the sin they focus on the most

>>42264435
thank you nona. this is reassuring :) i very much appreciate your taking the time for me. our firehouse chaplain led us in prayer last night for the first time since i've been there and i felt sort of icky just standing there with my head bowed and nothing of my own going on inside it. made me think about all of this again. maybe i will talk to him, although i do not know to which sect he belongs.
>>42264474
i do. i have tried and am trying; it is difficult, though, when i feel so broken and hate myself so much. it would be nice to have some guidance. i was hoping that in the future once i've had srs and it is easier to feel at peace with myself that i could accomplish this, but i also understand that waiting for material changes is not exactly conducive to or in the spirit of finding genuine peace

>>42264510
paul ruined everything with his stupid letters. the translators of the bible worded everything as poorly as possible too. i dont even think any of the scripture is anti-gay. in fact it was more anti pedophilia when you go back to the original context

>>42264476
It's mostly because abrahamic religions institutionalized homophobia like no other religion ever did. Stop making excuses for it.

>>42264487
I am changing things by not going to church

>>42264528
its not the essence of the scriptures fault tho

>>42264521
what helps is when you feel like communal prayer doesn't do stuff for you, just take the time to sit in silence and try to meditate over these things. and take time. 20, 30 minutes. that has always helped me, even when i didn't feel the presence of God doing it sometimes i always felt better afterwards

>>42264498
This lie again. Notice how you deceive by having androgynous in english but keeping the words for male and boy in hebrew, because translating them would make it obvious that words like boys, male, men arent different genders. Also ancient hebrew doesnt differentiate sex from gender, there are only 2 genders in hebrew grammar, and the greek NT is older than medieval rabbinic literature.

>>42264523
Knowing abrahamic religions, they were fine with straight pedophilia anyway. It's a religion made by desert incels who hated whores with murderous vigor. You don't have to make excuses for it. The thing is rotted at its core, no mistranslation needed.

>>42264539
It literally is? The essence of the biblical scriptures are rotted and homophobia is far from being the worst thing they did.

>>42264532
your choice, but you dont get to complain about the church while doing nothing to change things in the same way you dont get to complain about politics after not voting

>>42264333
i just don't think "queer" means anything but "politically leftist, personally obnoxious", and most people don't care for it

>>42264487
>if you care to change things, then do
Opposing abrahamic religions and speaking against them at every opportunity is my course of action. You don't have to be a part of a system to criticize it. The less hebrew mythology in the world, the better. And silence helps it spread.

>>42264581
Queer means anything that's not cis straight. You don't have to be bigoted about it. You're not in church

just one more bible translation bro everyrthing will be like jesus intended trust me bro

>>42264558
>you dont get to!!
lol you abrahamoids cant resist forbidding things even when pretending to be liberal and pluralistic, you yourself never stop critizing others ways of life

>>42264545
thank you for this, too :) i have wanted to start meditating again, anyways. now i have to.

>>42264596
Just wait for the 2026 new revised remastered deluxe edition. Pre order for 2 extra verses on lgbtq rights! (*dlc not included).

>>42264546
confusing grammatical gender with human existence is a nice self own

the mishnah (c. 200 ad) isn’t “medieval” it’s the same era as the greek nt. rabbis literally coined androgynos and tumtum because binary grammar couldn’t describe real people in front of them lol

isaiah 56:5 gives eunuchs a status “better than sons and daughters.” god already transcended the binary while you’re stuck arguing syntax

linguistics 101 gendered language ≠ gendered humans. cope and seeth

>>42264487
>the majority of us christians think gay marriage should be legal
And the majority of you still think of gay people as sinners and our marriage as inferior to straight marriage.
You are a victim of Stockholm syndrome

>>42264607
are you fr or is this supposed to be a jokr

>>42264593
i'm not being bigoted at all and i havent been to church in about 20 years
i'm just saying what normies (me) understand that label to be

>>42264397
why do you want to belong so badly to a cult that doesn't want you there?
You know you can have a spirituality without relying on the bible or abrahamic religions?

>>42264627
you should go to church. our presence there is good. just ignore all of the "father" and masculine god stuff. god is infinite and nonbinary

>>42264638
churches want as many people as they can get

>>42264627
>Being queer is being leftist
That's not "normie" understanding, that's more like right wing incel rhetoric.

>>42264645
No, they want as many paying patrons as they can get. They don't want queers around though.
If they had their way, you would give them your money and never attend their meetings or show up in anyway beyond pretending to be heterosexual

>>42264617
You will never be able to cite the hebrew terms for
>gender vs sex
>androgynous
because you are a liar. You arent even citing the hebrew bible but rather medieval literature that was NOT finished in 200. The tanakh itself used today, the masoretic version, is from like 1000 ad or something ffs, you absolutely shameless liar. You think you are clever by posting the hebrew word for ”boy” or ”male” untranslated and passing it off to clueless goy cattle as different genders!

>>42264638
im trans and i can say with certainty that my church wants me there. would be a bit awkward otherwise, i preach sometimes

>>42264647
i wouldn't know, idk anyone in those circles, i'm just going by what blue collar friends think

>>42264639
>nonbinary
sure buddy
the whole son-of-god-thing irks me too much
i would probably be a muslim if i could believe - but i'm too weak a man to do that

>>42264435
>mainline protestant church
>Most of them are accepting
It doesn't help your case to speak such blatant lies.
They literally "welcome" you there on the hopes that you will stop being queer at some point.

>>42264659
citing the masoretic text to claim ancient tradition didn’t exist until 1000 ad is more low iq stuff. androgynos isn’t an “english invention.” it’s the literal hebrew term אנדרוגינוס in the mishnah (c. 200 ad), coined because male/female failed to describe real people.

calling the mishnah “medieval” because the oldest copies are later is like saying the iliad didn’t exist before the printing press. dead sea scrolls nuke your timeline bud.
no, they didn’t have modern buzzwords. they had six legal categories based on lived reality, not just anatomy.
isaiah 56:5 god gives eunuchs a “name better than sons and daughters.” god moved past the binary. you didn’t. cope moar

>>42264676
lol it's not a lie idk what to tell you maybe you should step outside people are nicer than you might think

>>42264661
They want you there like a slave owner wants their slave nearby. They want your money most of all.
You are a victim of Stockholm syndrome and you are desperate to belong even if it is belonging to a cult that's against you.

>>42264675
Belief isn't strength. Skepticism isn't weakness. Don't fall for propaganda

>>42264693
are you dumb? i literally sit on the parish council and preach on the last sunday of each month. please stop rolling your script it's embarassing

>>42264693
thats like saying your parents are just slave owners

>>42264678
Hi im goy cattle. Because all us goyim are stupid I will believe your baseless claims. Untranslated hebrew terms for male and boy are different genders, thanks for educating my goy cattle brain. And yes jewish tradition is 6k year old because you say so yes yes indeed.

>>42264693
jews invented 6 genders and lgbtq rights and wrote it into the bible 6000 years ago then jesus came and wrote the UN charter on human rights. im sick of atheist goyim denying history.

>>42264686
It is a lie. Most churches including most protestant ones are not accepting of LGBT people at all.
Like a hungry stray dog, your bar for acceptance is very low, you probably think that letting you go inside is acceptance
Never mind that they literally preach to children against you and would never bless homosexual couples like they do to straight ones
>My church does it
The exception of the exception, one in a million church. Not the rule. You took years to find it.

>>42264704
nobody said hebrew age terms = new “genders.” that’s your strawman. legal categories ≠ modern identity language.
oral traditions don’t start when the oldest manuscript survives. that’s basic historiography. otherwise nothing before printing “existed.”
androgynos and tumtum are attested legal categories in the mishnah because real cases broke the male/female split. that’s descriptive, not ideological.
you don’t have to like it. but pretending it’s invented modern nonsense because it makes you uncomfortable isn’t an argument either

>>42264722
i didn't take years it was the closest anglican church and i went. im sorry if you've made bad experiences but the world isn't just made up of your experiences

>>42264725
Im goy cattle so I believe that every single thing was invented and spoken by moses 6000 years ago even though anti semites require so-called historical evidence.

>>42264722
I study German protestant church law in university and wrote a paper on that topic, of 20 protestant churches in Germany there are three that don't treat gay couples completely equally and all of those still marry gay couples

>>42264719
>ews invented 6 genders and lgbtq rights and wrote it into the bible 6000 years ago
Nigga ancient hebrews were the first culture in the world to invent laws against LGBT people in Leviticus.
Jesus didn't give anyone human rights, he literally said "bow down to me or burn forever"
You are so brainwashed you fell in love with the faith that cursed your existence

>>42264728
If you were honest about this, you would admit that the vast majority of churches in the world give a bad experience to LGBT people and yours is an exception.
Like any other cultist, defending your cult is the priority, honesty is secondary

>>42264722
im in the bible belt and back before i passed and was blatantly out and "queer" aesthetically i went to a few churches. methodist loved me and the other churches accepted me too.
but i also think there are churches here that might not have accepted me, but generally they just want more people by any means

>>42264743
Uhm sorry sweetie but actually moses invented lgbtq rights and 6 genders its called the oral tradition, when I call it oral it means I dont need historical evidence.

>>42264755
i mean most of the progressive churches are aging and shrinking while the conservative ones are growing so kinda yeah

>>42264638
i know several trans women who are Christian and a lesbian with whom i worked who was very devout. i have not talked to my trans friends but the lesbian was very vocal about her faith and involvement in her church (at which she sometimes preached) and i want to understand. i guess i just feel very broken and afraid much of the time and i want to feel grounded. i am a mess and i want to hold God's hand and know i am safe. my best friend's grandmother is also incredibly devout and one of the kindest women i have ever known and she inspires me. i know that there is good in Christianity.

>>42264753
Your senses are fake because goy cattle are stupid and their eyes dont function. According to my oral tradition jesus invented human and lgbt rights so all churches are trans accepting.

>>42264755
>other churches accepted me too
By letting you enter in their buildings?
Yes cults want more followers. They prey on people like you, people desperate for belonging.
That still doesn't mean they respect you or accept you, just that they want your money.
Most churches there have not accepted you, even the ones you attended. They would deny you the right to marry, speak or even attend church with your so.
You have Stockholm syndrome. It's literally victim caught in abusive relationship mentality

I'd be called heretical by orthobros and those kids who became catholics 2 months ago and delude themselves into thinking that they know everything, espousing hatred disguised as zeal and "good Christian doctrine". The devil probably loves that they are doing such a good job at sowing division. You shall know them by their fruits.

But here's how I see it. Don't be religious, don't be pharisaic. Walk with Christ in his love and love your neighbour. don't just read the bible: meditate on it, ask for guidance from God and through the Holy spirit you will know what is loving. Do good works because that is what faith will command you to do, even if you are already saved. We all need mercy. God bless.

>>42264763
theyre both waning, so the conservative ones are just losing more slowly. independent and diy religions and spirituality are sky rocketing

>>42264781
>Don't be religious
>Walk with christ
I know self exceptionality is part of your cult, but "walking with christ" and basing your faith on the gospels is 100% being religious.
Treat christians like they treat lgbt people. Don't fall for abrahamic cults

>>42264766
I know several people caught up in abusive relationships who spent years with abusive violent lovers. Your point?
People like you are so desperate for belonging you will wear a leash and defend your masters even as they whip you.

>>42264155
if being trans is you correcting a mistake God made, why shouldn't most religious people be fervently against your identity? it makes sense

>>42264778
the preacher started to give literal sermons every week talking about accepting people if they're different, etc. and a few people came up to me including the pastor and said we're so glad you're here. i was invited to a bunch of pot lucks, went on a hay bale ride thing, went to a few gatherings like thanksgiving. im more in the northern bible belt and maybe in the deep south its bad, but i didnt get that experience at all

>>42264823
that framing assumes variance is a mistake. religious traditions don’t teach that. people are born with illnesses, disabilities, infertility, intersex traits, left handedness. treating or aligning with reality isn’t “correcting god,” it’s participating in creation.
trans people aren’t claiming god erred. they’re responding to how they were made. like somebodyt wearing glasses

>>42264766
>the lesbian was very vocal about her faith and involvement in her church
>The same church wouldn't marry her to a woman
>Most of her church goers wouldn't attend her wedding or even call it so
From everything you could learn to feel grounded, all shapes of philosophy, you go with abrahamic mythos? What a bad taste.
You have been indoctrinated from birth into seeing the "good' of christianity but not its evil. There's good in people. Christianity just perverted that and took credit for it.

>>42264801
>Treat christians like they treat lgbt people
I'm an lgbt Christian and I like to think that I treat other lgbt people with kindness.

When I say 'don't be religious' what I mean is that the traditions and practices are optional. That primarily we should focus on our mission, and for you that mission may be different but for those who choose Christ it is singular in it's objective per John 15:12.

I'm not evangelizing anybody, simply pleading for Christians to love.

>>42264827
I don't believe a word you said because you are simply omitting every single bad experience you had with bigotry in church
But just in case you found the wokest church in all america, let me tell: that's the exception, not the rule. The church right next to it is preaching against LGBT people while you attend this ride. Your own church wouldn't marry you to your spouse.
Your experience is heavily skewed by the perspective of a cult member defending their cult. Literally brainwashed.

>>42264862
good. Jesus was very adamant about loving each other and not judging

>>42264868
you couldnt be more wrong. have you even read the bible? the nt is all about love and acceptance. any church that doesnt do that isnt a church of god

>>42264827
They're on the verge of praying your sinful lifestyle away, as they aways do. But first they get you hooked on the false positivity. It's literally how abusive relationships work. You wait and see.
The same church who "accepted you" so dearly will turn their backs on you when they realize you have no interest in stopping being LGBT

>>42264818
>>42264850
i was not indoctrinated at all; on the contrary i did not and do not believe in any god. i just see people around me and find it inspirational. my family tried to make me religious and they couldn't. i have free will. i refuse to believe in a cruel and unjust god and do not intend to; i do not believe that the people around me would, either, given the lives they have lived. there is more than hate, i think. i want to allow Christianity to justify itself to me that i may feel the same warmth that the people around me do.

>>42264882
i preach to them instead lol

>>42264862
>I treat other lgbt people with kindness.
Most christians are not like you, at all. Their churches are glorified temples of lgbtphobia.
When you resort to the bible, you are being religious and you are literally evangelizing like they did to you at church.
You conveniently omit the passages where Christ tells you about how much you're gonna burn in hell forever if you don't bow down to his will. There's no real love in your faith. It's pure hubris.

>>42264885
how can you not believe in god when this universe is so fine tuned??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5om87mchGs

>>42264891
You preach to us actually. In there, you're no authority figure and you are being deluded by a false sense of belonging.
Cults 101. You wait and see it.

>>42264912
Fine tuned to what? Most of the universe is cold and empty.

>>42264916
its still a place where ideas are exchanged and i speak my mind and nobody can beat me in the free market of ideas. god is on our side and its easy to prove it. also god isnt male and an infinite god is most religious peoples biggest lack of comprehension

>>42264885
>i want to allow Christianity to justify itself to me that i may feel the same warmth
Literally the power of indoctrination. You want to belong to a cult that doesn't want you there. You're a victim of ab abusive relationship but you still in the "defending the abuse" phase.

>>42264938
>also god isnt male
heathen detected, enjoy hell for denying the incarnation.

>>42264881
>have you even read the bible?
Have you? With its multiple passages condemning our lives? I think you missed those. The new testament is not just the gospels, darling. Even jesus own words are filled with evil and his own egocentrism. "Worship me or be cursed" is his entire ethos.

>>42264934
if gravity was 1 billionth stronger or weaker none of this would exist. the matter would have never came together or it wouldnt allow for the formation of earth.
and its not just gravity, if you tweak any of this universe none of it exists. its all perfectly balanced on a razors edge and none of its constants, forces, laws should be exactly like they are but they are
think about it. the sun is the exact same size as our moon from our vantage. its crazy but this universe was made for you.

>>42264952
an infinite god tho

>>42264155
>>42264908
To add, a local church has a trans member in the congregation. When they came out to the church leaders the church said "anybody amoung our congregation who is not willing to wholeheatedly accept them is free to leave". Not only are they tolerant, they are affirming. They named those who left the church over this during the following Sunday service and have written at length about loving and affirming lgbt people.

I completely accept criticism of organised religious institutions, they can be horrible cesspits of hatred and intolerance, depravity and corruption. Jesus knew this too and that's why he lost it in the temple. People corrupt everything.

>you are literally evangelizing like they did to you at church
I can cite text without evangelizing, again I was speaking generally to other Christians not prescribing to you.
>You conveniently omit the passages where Christ tells you about how much you're gonna burn in hell forever if you don't bow down to his will.
Cite it. I think what actually happens is that Christ makes clear that seperation from Him (love) *is* hell, not condeming specifically. Though again, i'm not interested in having a theological debate. Simply asking Christians to love without stipulation.

>>42264964
Except everything would change, not just one variable. And your god didnt even know about gravity he thought the world was a dome and that the apocalypse would occur 2000 years ago, certainly he never predicted anything about modern science.

>>42264938
>ideas are exchanged
Not exchanged, ideas are literally propagated brainwashing style, the preacher speaks and the attendees listen in silence. There's no exchange, it's not a place to challenge beliefs, only to preach zealotry and bigotry but you're so desperate for belonging, you took it. You let your LGBT sense of dignity aside just so you could belong to a cult of personality and hatred.
>I speak my mind
Only because you speak what they want to hear, lmao. If you ever speak anything they disagree with, they will show you the door. You're not a free thinker, you're an intellectual hostage

>>42264964
>if gravity was 1 billionth stronger or weaker none of this would exist.
That's a fallacy called survivorship bias.
If gravity was different, the whole universe would be different, and in this different universe any intelligent life that existed in any planet would think of their own universe as "fine tuned" for their own lives.
Not even earth is fine tuned for life, it's filled with inhospitable environments, we can only naturally survive in s fraction of the planet surface

>>42264974
some would agrue that thats affirming sins

>>42264996
>>42264801

>>42265017
>>42264781
sorry wrong one!

>>42264974
>They named those who left the church over this during the following Sunday service
Never happened.
This woke church you found is the exception. There are a million LGBT hating churches to compensate for it, all of them denouncing your particular trans loving church as a fake church for reprobates.
In fact your church is ignoring several aspects of the bible selectively, which everyone does, but it goes to show this fact:
>The only way to view the bible and christian cults as good is ignoring all the evil in it.

>>42265024
>Don't just read the bible, meditate on it
How long did you have to meditate on the bible until you felt free to ignore the verses you didn't like?

>>42264955
>reductio ad absurdum
that’s a selective reading filtered through modern polemics.
the gospels don’t present jesus as “worship me or else,” they present him pointing away from ego toward humility, mercy, and care for the outcast. most of his harshest words are aimed at religious authorities, not vulnerable people.
christianity isn’t a single voice frozen in time. it’s layers of texts, contexts, translations, and arguments that have always been contested even inside the tradition.
disagreement with a religion is fair. reducing it to a cartoon villain because you’re angry isn’t analysis.

>>42265045
>le context
ah yes, the magic word. That magic word makes all abrahamic religions true at the same time. Every single heathen argument is demolished when uttering the magic word ”context”.

>>42265045
>the gospels don’t present jesus as “worship me or else,
That's literally how jesus presents himself, he calls himself more than once the only way to salvation and that none can be saved except through him. He made multiple descriptions of hellish torment awaiting the unsaved.
It's like you have to read the bible through a very apologetic filter so you can ignore everything bad jesus ever said.

>>42264994
but when there are so many 1 in 1,000,000,000th over and over for you to exist its saying something. at worse you are the luckiest lottery player ever, to an absurdly impossible degree, or there is a god or creative force that made you. i choose god because it makes more sense.

>>42265063
you’re wrong because context.

>>42265027
>It didn't happen
>and if it did it's the exception
>and if it wasn't then it is still contradictory to the bible
>and if it isn't then it's still a cult

That's fine! Either I will stand before Christ and be condemned/spared in mercy for misplacing love (lol) or I will perish and all that happened is somebody was accepted and loved.

>>42265044
I haven't ignored a single letter on any single page of the bible.

Love each other.

>>42265045
>they present him pointing away from ego
He actually points people towards his own ego. "Worship me and be rewarded in heaven" he says. It's not even "worship god" he literally speaks to people in the first person and demands people worship his own identity.
His harshest words are for non believers actually, he dooms them eternally.
>It's layers of texts
And layers of lies. Context is only useful when you want to justify the evil verses. Any verse you find wholesome is good on its own without any further context needed.

>>42265063
>pure ego demanding worship
jesus washing his disciples’ feet like a servant and saying “the greatest among you must be like the least.”
jesus saying “why do you call me good? no one is good except god alone.”
jesus refusing to turn stones into bread or show off power when tempted.
jesus riding into jerusalem on a donkey, not a war horse.
jesus eating with sinners and outcasts instead of religious elites.
jesus saying he came to serve, not to be served.
jesus staying silent while being mocked and accused instead of flexing authority.
jesus praying “not my will, but yours” in gethsemane.

>>42265102
jesus never says to worship him, he says the opposite. christians push a lot of false stuff

>>42265067
>but when there are so many 1 in 1,000,000,000th over and over for you to exist
It doesn't, really. That's just survivorship bias again. Our existence was an inevitable part of this universe.
For the bacteria that lived in ancient mars , the universe was terribly tuned, their atmosphere was stripped away billions of years ago and they lost their oceans and died.
Your idea is of human exceptionality. As science gets closer to uncovering extraterrestrial life, this idea loses strength.
Not even our own bodies are fine tuned for life, they're fragile, flawed, vulnerable and full of potential diseases.

>>42265107
>jesus washing his disciples’ feet like a servant and saying “the greatest among you must be like the least.”
Followed by
>I am the way, the truth and none can come to heaven except through me
Remember how you talked about layers? This is just one of many circumstantial evidences that these verses were written by different people with different agendas.
In one verse, jesus shows compassion and humility, in other he shows extreme pride and egocentric beliefs.
>I'll just ignore the verses I don't like
A good christian, through and through.

>>42265130
survivorship bias only explains why we notice conditions, not why the conditions exist at all. it doesn’t turn contingency into inevitability.
“inevitable” is doing a lot of work here. physics doesn’t say this universe had to produce life, only that given these constants, life can arise. that’s the whole fine tuning question.
mars isn’t a counterexample. it shows how narrow the window is. most environments fail. that’s the point, not a refutation.
fragility doesn’t argue against tuning. complex systems are always fragile. a piano going out of tune easily doesn’t mean it wasn’t tuned in the first place.
rejecting human exceptionalism doesn’t solve the mystery either. even microbial life requires absurdly specific chemistry. scale doesn’t erase improbability

>>42265143
im not the layers poster, i am the way” ≠ “worship me or be tortured.”
in context he’s answering a question about how to live faithfully
im not ignoring im understanding because ive read the bible many times and most of the quotes christians cling to are misunderstood or out of context

>>42265144
>complex systems are always fragile.
only when evolved or created by humans. A god could has no need for fragility, they can create invincible magic ghosts. But alas he chose to create the weakest most fragile creatures to trick humans into believing in evolution, because uhhh….reasons he also hid from us.

>>42265144
>survivorship bias only explains why we notice conditions
Which is exactly what you are doing, noticing conditions favourable to life and thinking these were specially made for you.
What you ignore is that any intelligent life form in the universe, without access to knowledge about the rest of the universe, would arrive at the same conclusion: that their own planet is special and specially made just for them.
Life on earth won't last forever, the planet has numbered days just like our star. This isn't fine tuning. It's just inevitable

>>42265143
>>jesus washing his disciples’ feet like a servant and saying “the greatest among you must be like the least.”
>Followed by
>>I am the way, the truth and none can come to heaven except through me
>Remember how you talked about layers? This is just one of many circumstantial evidences that these verses were written by different people with different agendas.
>In one verse, jesus shows compassion and humility, in other he shows extreme pride and egocentric beliefs.
Through his ministry Christ demonstrates how we should act, he's like a father correcting his disciples and having them record his teachings so that they can live how God wants for us to.
Also like a father he is firm and direct; these things are not contradictory.

>>42265165
>i am the way” ≠ “worship me or be tortured.”
He said he's the "only" way to salvation, that none can be saved except through him, and that the unsaved will burn in hell forever. He says all those things literally.
Your faith relies on ignoring everything that jesus said that doesn't sound so wholesome to your ears.

>>42265165
The only quotes you think are "misunderstood" are the ones who paint your god in a bad light. The verses you do like about him are fine on their own.
This isn't understanding, anon. It's just apologetics and wishful thinking.
Jesus said that the only way to live "faithfully" and be granted eternal life instead of eternal damnation, is to worship him. That's a pure ego trip.

>>42265168
>>42265171
you’re still arguing against a false dichotomy. “fragile biology” vs “invincible magic ghosts” isn’t the choice space. a law-governed universe with stable rules necessarily produces contingent, failure-prone systems.
fragility follows from coherence and causality, not deception. systems that can evolve, adapt, and be studied must also be able to break.
survivorship bias explains why observers exist somewhere. it does not explain why physical constants fall into a very narrow life-permitting range rather than the overwhelmingly larger non-life range. that’s the unresolved question.
the claim that any intelligence would reach the same conclusion is speculative. fine tuning is about parameter sensitivity, not observer psychology.
impermanence doesn’t negate tuning. a system can be time limited and still be highly constrained.

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Om tare tuttare ture svaha
Om tare tuttare ture svaha
Om tare tuttare ture svaha

>>42265183
>Christ demonstrates how we should act
And he "demonstrate" that we should act in worship of him otherwise we will be eternally dammed.
What's a father who would cast their children into eternal damnation for not obeying his orders or holding him in the highest regard?
An abuser.

>>42265205
i dont believe the bible is perfect. i think it is flawed, but remarkably not that much. ive read it a few times and the jist of it is pretty clear. the problem is people using pieces of it that are heavily contradicted by the jist or by many other parts. theres no bad quote i cant pick apart or simply write off as patriarchy control etc.. but if anybody reads the bible as much as i have they will see it too. even the pope has came around on all of these issues and is even accepting trans people now. im just ahead of the curve i guess

>>42265144
>physics doesn’t say this universe had to produce life
That's such a great misunderstanding of physics.
Physics is just our observation of the universe and it is in fact part of physics that the universe produced life in the solar system. Life in this planet is not a gift, it's an integral part of the universe.
You sound like medieval christians who believed the earth was the center of the universe and of creation itself. It's a purely anthropocentric perspective.

>>42265244
The bible is flawed like the men who wrote it, and that goes all the way back to jesus being a flawed human being, a mortal man who died. Some of his teachings have merits, others are downright evil and delusional.
Your faith is dangerous precisely because you can't make that distinction and you think everything jesus allegedly said must be true and his character was perfect.

Reminder that Christians literally consider it to be "oppression" if you set a boundary with them

Nasty narcissists who, at best, are trying to cut you in order to sell you a band-aid ("you need Jesus because you're sinful and bad! etc.") and at worst, they wanna fuck your kids. Hard pass on this diabolical semitic cult

>>42265079
>That's fine! Either I will stand before Christ and be condemned/spared in mercy for misplacing love (lol) or I will perish and all that happened is somebody was accepted and loved.
>maybe the god I worship will burn me forever but that's okay
Slave mentality. Literally Stockholm syndrome. This is the power of religious indoctrination. Strips people of dignity. They will pay any price for belonging to a cult.
You have ignored the bible verses telling you to quit being LGBT and marry the opposite sex instead, you ignored Jesus verses telling you to cut off your sinful body parts, you ignore so much of the bible it's easier to pinpoint what verses you follow.

>>42265070
>Context is for when the fake Hebrew god says something I don't like

>>42265262
nobody said the bible is perfect or that every line is literal. that’s your projection.
the claim is that the core moral arc and teachings are remarkably coherent and resilient despite human authorship.
flawed transmission doesn’t negate a good signal. it’s exactly what you’d expect if something infinite passes through finite people.

>>42264155
>queer people
I'm not religious but I sincerely hope you burn in hell OP

>>42265144
>even microbial life requires absurdly specific chemistry
We found sugars in comets. Turns out life in this universe is very common we just haven't detected it due to limitations in our telescopes. We can barely see exoplanets.
Turns out most star systems will have life at some point

>>42265284
lol I get the church trauma, but “all christians are predators” is just rage posting.
some are pushy weirdos, some are normal. aim the criticism or youre no better or even worse

>>42265305
>nobody said the bible is perfect
Christianity literally relies on the bible being "inerrant" which means without mistakes. So yes many people claim the bible is perfect, and that's the bulk of the issue.
I love to see you ripping out pages of the bible and reducing it to man made poetry with questionable teachings. That's how my own atheism journey started, maybe these are your first steps towards freedom.
It's not healthy to worship a god who will at best "forgive" you for "misplacing" love. You are literally worshipping your abuser.

>>42265318
if life were that common and that easy, the fermi paradox wouldn’t exist.
billions of years + billions of stars = we should see something by now.
sugars in comets ≠ living systems. chemistry is cheap, biology isn’t.
“we just haven’t detected it yet” is placebo

>>42265286
>Slave mentality
Is there something wrong with that?

>Literally Stockholm syndrome. This is the power of religious indoctrination. Strips people of dignity. They will pay any price for belonging to a cult.
I came to Him of my own free will, I have no religious family and I am not a regular at any specific church.

>You have ignored the bible verses telling you to quit being LGBT
No, I haven't.

>you ignored Jesus verses telling you to cut off your sinful body parts
No, I haven't.

>you ignore so much of the bible it's easier to pinpoint what verses you follow
no, and (you) seem rather confident that you know me at all. I think maybe you have constructed me in your mind and I am no longer an individual to you, but some rotten tentacle of The Church(tm). There is nuance.

>>42265079
>I will stand before Christ and be condemned/spared in mercy for misplacing love (lol) or I will perish and all that happened is somebody was accepted and loved.
Counterpoint: If your "trans-affirming" church still preaches that non-Christian trans people go to the eternally infinite pain-and-suffering dimension on death (and deserve to go there), then their love and acceptance is conditional and you are an Uncle Tom.

>>42265347
i dont agree with a lot of what christians teach myself. i meant in the context of our convo. theres literally like 10 sentences in the bible i would change and it would be perfect. also most of those are context or mistranslation problems

>>42265306
?

>>42265339
>lol I get the church trauma
I don't have any church trauma, I grew up in a nonreligious household, knock it off with this strawman.
And yes, the sexual predation enabled by Christian churches is very well documented, it's not "rageposting" dear, it's just facts. If we're trying to convince the normies that trans people aren't rapists and groomers, then joining the rapist groomer religion might be counterproductive to our cause (assuming that that's something you care about)

>>42265351
If intelligent design was real the world would look like how abrahamic texts describes it as, ie a dome 6000 year old crafted for life and set to end circa 2000 years ago when the purpose was over. Turns out the world isnt anything at all like it was intelligently designed nor is it anything like humans anticipated, which is why it doesnt match past predictions of even fake prophets.

>>42265144
>mars isn’t a counterexample. it shows how narrow the window is.
It actually is because it shows that instead of life being some sort of divine indictment, there's a biological window for life to emerge, and it's a limited window, not eternal
The same thing that happened to mars will happen to earth. By then, who would say the earth is fine tuned for life?

religious cis guy here. Jesus loves all of you and wants nothing but the best for you.

>>42265363
They certainly do not preach that. Nor do I believe that. But I'm sure somebody who loves to say that I pick and chose my verses would say that believing that is wrong.
Even the late Pope Francis held that hope that nobody was in hell. we do not know the limits of Gods mercy: and any Christian who says that they do is claiming something impossible.

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>>42265357
>Is there something wrong with thinking like a slave?
Yes, specially when your master is bad for you and asks for money.
>I came to him of my own
And your religious upbringing and being born in a christian society had nothing to do with it? Had you been born in india you'd be worshipping cows. It wasn't free will. It was brainwashing.
There's nuance alright, like all the bible verses you ignore but pretend not to.

>>42265388
but blaming an entire belief system for institutional crime is the same logic used against trans people
>>42265389
that’s attacking a literalist strawman. intelligent design ≠ young earth cosmology or failed apocalypse dates. bad predictions by humans don’t refute order or constraint in nature. they refute bad interpreters and retarded takes on reality but the universe not matching ancient expectations doesn’t make it random as a default

>>42265396
Amen <3

>>42265305
>the claim is that the core moral arc and teachings are remarkably coherent and resilient
And evil. Rejection of LGBT lives is one of the core moral arcs of christianity.
That's the moral arc you ignore because it doesn't fit your agenda.
The bible's morality is not coherent by the way, jesus himself had to step in to rewrite the rules of the old testament and then paul had to step further in and undo some of Christ's teachings in favour of hos own vitriolic hatred for minorities.
The bible is filled with bad signal and the pettiness of human made morality. Those are the verses you ignore, though. There's nothing infinite about it.

>>42265432
>that’s attacking a literalist strawman
every single description from an abrahamic, be they divinely inspired or personal opinions, have been contradicted by modern discoveries, because no divine intelligence spawned your religion, and the human intelligences that did, fail to predict modern science and how the universe looks like precisely because it is NOT intuitive and NOT expected from something designed by an intelligent omnipotent creator.

>>42265392
a limited window doesn’t refute fine tuning, it’s exactly what you’d expect from it.
tuning isn’t about eternity, it’s about constraints. a system can be highly constrained and still temporary.
mars shows how easy it is for life to fail, not how inevitable it is to succeed.
earth being time-limited doesn’t mean it wasn’t narrowly life permitting while it lasted. and who knows where are species will grow to. im assuming we colonize everything and turn the universe into a sandbox

>>42265422
>being born in a christian society
>your religious upbringing
I wasn't. and again you are claiming to know me, which you do not.

here let me restate my beliefs:
I am saying that evil things have been done in the name of religion.
I am saying that is bad.
I am saying that we should love one another.
I don't particularly like evangelizing.
I would like to believe that hell is empty.
I have no problem serving. Christ's message was serve and love, not just Him but your neighbour too.

>>42265432
The "belief system" in itself is rotted and filled with hatred for LGBT people, though.
Nothing good about this system is exclusive to christian mythology. The golden rule isn't even a christian invention, it's a Buddhist one.
The only things that are particular about Christianity are the evil teachings it promotes.

>>42265461
>jesus himself had to step in to rewrite the rules of the old testament
I was going to properly reply to this post until I read this. You have never held a bible in your hands and have no idea what you are talking about.

>>42265488
We judge you and your message by your fruits. Turns out they are rotten to the core.

>>42265493
The golden rule is an inversion of the buddhist golden rule. It's active not inactive.

>>42265396
>wants nothing but the best for you.
A backhanded remark. "Best for you" includes leaving the LGBT life behind as per his religious doctrine.
If what's best for me is to reject Christ's and blaspheme against him, does he still wants that for me?

>>42265503
and yet you partake in western society (which only exists due Christianity) interesting!

>>42265473
that assumes “intelligent” means “intuitive to humans,” which doesn’t follow. the bible itself frames humans as made in the image of god, co creators inside creation, not outside observers with the full schematic. if intelligence is immanent and fractal rather than external and micromanaging, then discovery replaces prophecy. the universe isn’t meant to look obvious to finite minds inside it. humans failing to predict physics doesn’t refute intelligence. it’s exactly what you’d expect if we’re partial expressions learning the structure from within

>>42265432
It shows that the ancient expectations were wrong and ignorant, like their myths and legends of which christianity was born.

>>42265432
>but blaming an entire belief system for institutional crime is the same logic used against trans people
Trans people are not an institution, that's not even close to being a valid analogy. You got tricked into joining the rapist groomer religion and now you have buyer's remorse, cope.

>>42265519
Pagan greeks created western values, your values created modern uganda.

>>42265519
Lmao Christianity is literally a curse on western society, which is based upon roman and greek advancements. Abrahamic religions literally stagnated western society and ruined scientific advancements for centuries. It still does today

>>42265534
lol furthest thing from reality. you should put your forces to good. everything is an institution of sorts

>>42265545
the greek and roman cults are what contaminated the good scriptures

>>42265527
That's a whole lot of euphemisms just to say the bible was wrong about it.
What else is it wrong about?

>>42265503
>We judge you and your message by your fruits.
ME and MY message?

Well my message is to love one another. And in my life I hope that the fruits are happy family and friends, and that through my actions the world around me is better for it.

I hope that your fruits are good too, outside of this place. May you have a good and healthy life.

>>42265559
These scriptures weren't good by any measure, they were evil at their core.

>>42265559
The greeks and romans tainted my pure semitic tribal cult.

>>42265573
well the bible isnt even 1% of the scripture from back then, and the bible is hand selected by the people infected with the roman and greek cults. look it up they were damn near prevalent at the time. and thats the source of all the confusion. if you read a lot of the other text it becomes clear the abrahamics were on a good path ruined by weird cults

>>42265488
You were born in a christian society that heavily influenced your beliefs.
>Evil things done in the name of religion
No, anon. Religion itself, and I mean the bible, is evil in its core.
People who used the bible for evil weren't twisting it. The bible was designed with that purpose in mind. It is rotted at its origin and you try to make excuses for it
Like a victim of abuse

>>42265572
Your message is actually one of worshipping the bible, an evil book.
Your message is contaminated and rotted by its evil.

>>42265541
>>42265545
you not only did not held a bible ever in your hands you also do not have a basic grasp of history either, please stop being such redditors and actually read some history books.

>>42265604
what in the bible is so bad? for every bad you show i can show you 1000x good. youve been groomed by atheist talking points. you cant refute fine tuning being absurdly profound, and you cant refute that the bible is overwhelmingly positive

>>42265603
Abrahamics had to be fixed by a handful of protestants 6000 years after its inception, how the fuck does a 6000 year old failure prove its success? Retards.

>>42265603
The abrahamic were the weird cult worshipping evil. Keep making excuses for it. They wrote about genocide babies before the roman empire even existed, abd they did it without any contact with the greeks.
The worst parts of the bible are literally the most intrinsically Abrahamic.

>love they neighbor as yourself
>do not insult each other
>turn the other cheek
>forgive
this is somehow evil to the tourists

>>42265613
Project harder. Your worldwide 6000 year old divine religion failed everywhere except for when a minority decided to adopt pagan greek values and logic, what a weird coincidence.

>>42265623
It's the opposite actually, for every "good" you show I can show you 1000x worse verses with more evil teachings. You have been groomed by religion into being an obedient slave, you are a victim of Stockholm syndrome defending your abuser
>What's so bad about the bible anyway?
>Asked the member of a persecuted minority condemned more than 10x in the bible
Your faith is just worshipping ignorance.

>>42265624
reform isn’t “fixing a failure,” it’s internal critique. every long lived tradition argues with itself over time just like science prescribes
survival across millennia with continuous self correction isn’t evidence of failure, it’s evidence of depth. dead ideas don’t get reformed, they get abandoned.
>>42265636
ancient texts describing violence isn’t unique to abrahamics. that’s literally all ancient literature.
description =/= endorsement. the bible preserves brutal history and internal critique of it, often side by side.
reducing a multi-thousand year tradition to its worst passages is the same move people use to dismiss any complex system they just don’t want to understand

>>42265647
>>42265623
>>42265613
2 Timothy 2:23-25

Love you all. believers and non-believers alike.

>>42265647
>WE ARE A RELIGION OF PEACE
now where have I heard that before....

>>42265688
I prefer religion of context

>>42265649
yet again you have no idea what you're talking about. the only reason greek philosophy has any place in western society is because CHRISTIAN theologians rediscovered those dead and rotten texts in the MIDDLE AGES where Christianity was already widespread and the majority religion. You should thank those christian scholars or otherwise you wouldn't know how to write or read.

>>42265647
>worship jesus or be damned eternally
>Slavery= okay
> Sexual minorities= hellbound
> Women = inferior
> Your money= give it to us
> Speaking against god = Eternal torment
> Questioning any of this = Death
This is good to christcucks.

>>42265668
you cant lol. and calling disagreement “stockholm syndrome” isn’t an argument, it’s cope. ancient texts reflect violent history, that’s not surprising. the question is whether there’s internal moral critique, not who can list more bad verses. turning disagreement into pathology is just more dogma that you claim to hate

>>42265700
WE WUZ pagans n shiet

>>42265613
Giordano bruno was burned at the stake for saying other planets existed in space.
He is a symbol of the damage religion can do to science

>>42265647
this

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The first christian was transgender. Look it up.

>>42265623
>you cant refute that the bible is overwhelmingly positive
Dude there's a chapter in there where children make fun of a bald dude and god is so offended he send a bear to maul the children
by overwhelmingly positive you mean you closed your eyes to the evil in it.

>>42265699
Context only matters to you to downplay the evil verses of the bible, but you never take context to discredit the verses you find wholesome.
Context? No, friend, that's just cope

>>42265744
anecdotes doesn’t refute an overall ethical trajectory. it just proves the text preserved some of its history instead of sanitizing it

>>42265744
Yeah but do you know about context? Heh didnt think so.

What I find most funny is how you guys are angry that you won't get eternal life. You don't wanna be with jesus and then cry when in the afterlife you wont be with him even though it was your decision

>>42265700
So much ignorance in so few words.
The catholic church literally destroyed or concealed ancient Greek texts and the only reason we have surviving manuscripts is because Islamic scholars preserved the text and after centuries, these were "rediscovered" by christians, after more than 900 years in the dark due to the church tight grasp on knowledge.

>>42265741
?

>>42265766
Anecdotes in the very bible?
So you just close your eyes to every single evil thing done by god in the bible?
That's the secret to finding it positive: ignorance.

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Saris: (often mistraslated as EUNUCH) are trans people and held in high regard

Shuv: (often mistraslated as REPENT) means to turn back, return, realign, not “feel guilty” or “self-condemn.”

If the bible was just translated better we wouldnt be in this mess

>>42265766
It shows that the history of the bible is littered with evil because it is an evil religion filled with evil teachings and twisted morals

>>42265779
Whats funny is that jesus says he will reject ”many” christians in matthew 7:22-23. You are gambling that you wont be included in the many, on top of gambling that your brand of semitic tribal lore is correct.

>>42265820
people are evil and scripture saved us. thank jesus

>>42265815
The NT was originally in greek, not hebrew.

>>42265710
>ancient texts reflect violent history
They reflect the evilness of the cultures that wrote it. It's not divine wisdom, it's ancient bigotry.
The internal moral of the bible is twisted, subversive and downright evil.
You have Stockholm syndrome because you ate dying on the hill of defending a book that curses your existence.
It's like a slave defending his masters. You're a victim of abuse caught up in the web of the abuser.

>>42265785
>The catholic church literally destroyed or concealed ancient Greek texts
LOL

> the only reason we have surviving manuscripts
is not because of the muslims but because those manuscript were in Constantinople and were brought over to italy in 1204 and 1453. Yet again you have no idea what youre talking about and just use popular talking points that are not true.

>>42265710
It's not "reflecting violent history". It's depicting a violent god who does evil things towards children multiple times.
And you jump through hoops to interpret that as anything other than evil because you are not in it for logic or morality, you are just blindly defending the dogma of your upbringing

>>42265687
Most Christians don't do this

>>42265829
>Whats funny is that jesus says he will reject ”many” christians
Did you read the verse? its about religious hypocracy and how the people that do evil in the name of jesus will not enter heaven lmao

>>42265844
People are evil and they wrote down evil texts that you worship. These scriptures didn't save anyone, they cursed humanity with endless bigotry, they gave power to institutions to rule and be corrupt: that was the original intent.

>>42264155
No beacuse religious cucks dont get their right to religion ends st the rights of everyone else. No u cant do shit cuz yer bible says it is the law. We have onelaw and thT is the king’s.

>>42265902
Yes and the only people who act in the name of jesus are christians, in other words he will reject many of those who believe and swear up and down they are gonna be with jesus. Good luck.

>>42265862
The church literally spend a thousand years suppressing knowledge, silencing scientists, persecuting free thinkers, and it wasn't until outsiders brought these texts from foreign countries, that the christian europe got to know greek philosophy after spending centuries in the dark veil of faith.

>>42265924
>Yes and the only people who act in the name of jesus are christians
"These people honor me with their lips,but their hearts are far from me."

>>42265674
>it’s internal critique
If the text was inerrant, divine and perfect, it wouldn't require correction or critique, it would be absolute.
People like you argue in semantic circles. Correction is evidence that what came before was wrong. The bible is a fictional text filled with mistakes, errors and downright evil teachings

>>42265959
Wow Jesus predicted you in this thread!

The bible states that the feeble minded who cannot properly understand the bible will automatically go to heaven, you guys are saved.

>>42265674
>ancient texts describing violence isn’t unique to abrahamics
It's not merely describing violence, it's the god you worship demanding violence and evil to be carried out in his name. It's god ordering evil to be done.
I never said these were unique. There's nothing unique about the bible. It's a man made text that reflects man made flaws and faults of character, it carries the evil of human deeds and disguise them as divine.
That's why it's so dangerous. People like you will see downright evil verses and will make excuses for it.

>>42265674
>the bible preserves brutal history and internal critique of it
There's no internal critique, the bible shows god being brutal and the conclusion is that he being brutal is a good thing and you shouldn't question it.

>>42265674
>reducing a multi-thousand year tradition to its worst passages
Isn't that what you do, but you reduce it only to the passages you find wholesome?
How come people who limit their perspective to the bad side of the bible "don't understand it" but you limiting your perspective to the good side of it is proper understanding? Isn't it bias?
Are you sure you just don't want to understand why some people would reject and oppose the bible?

>hueh if Christianity is so good then why doesn't it conform to my post-modern morality system that only exists because of Christianity?

I'm not even Christian but that's a dumb argument

>>42266060
If your idea of good includes slavery, genocide, raping virgin girls and paying her father for marriage, maybe it's time you reflect on your ancient morality and realize there's not much moral about it.

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>>42266060
>Modern morality only exists because of christianity
Wrong actually. It exists in spite of Christianity, not because of it. Christianity was used to justify war, enslavement, and genocide before, as the bible condones all those things.
>I'm not a christian
>Credits christianity for humanistic accomplishments that were only possible because Christianity lost power over people

>ancient time where raping and slavery was okay
>old testament tells you NOT to rape and instead give them a period of mourning and then MARRY them
lying bros... not like this...

>>42266088
The idea that slavery is morally wrong didn't even exist prior to Christianity lmao wtf are you even talking about

You're using Christian morals to try and discredit Christianity, like do you not see the irony here

>>42266115
Old testament literally has god commanding his followers to pillage and sack enemy tribes, kill everyone including breastfeeding babies, and taking the young virgins as spoils of wars.
It specifically names the amount of silver coins you should pay to a father if you rape his virgin daughter so you can marry her without his approval.

2 Samuel 11 & 12

>>42266117
The new testament literally tells slaves to obey their masters. The old testament literally teaches how to buy, sell and punish slaves. All slave trade in Europe occured with the participation and consent of Christianity and its churches, and it doesn't contradict the bible at all.
Careful with the lying, it's a sin.

The earliest elaboration of abolition that survives from antiquity is Gregory of Nyssa's sermon on owning slaves and pride (380 AD), anticipating the moral groundwork of the abolitionist movement by nearly 1,500 years.

>>42266176
The earliest elaboration of a rulebook for slave trade and slave treatment is in Leviticus

>>42266175
>Careful with the lying, it's a sin
I'm not Christian though. Never been baptized or taken any other sacraments. You obviously have, though. Which means you're a Christian and you're seething because your parents LOVED you enough to teach you about God. Actually, now that I'm typing that out, that kinda pisses me off. You got handed a two thousand year old faith on a silver platter and decided "nah I don't want that, give me globohomo and funko pops" the heck is wrong with you? lmao

>>42266175
you're taking the same verse out of context the same way the southern states did. I think its time for you to turn off your pc

>>42266060
>if ancient semitic tribal morals are so bad then how come we’ve entirely rejected them
ha check mate atheists!

>>42266247
YOU HAVEN'T REJECTED THEM! that's my entire fucking point! Anti-slavery is a Christian moral value, the idea that human life has inherent value and slavery=bad was completely UNHEARD OF in most of the ancient world. If you time traveled to ~50AD Rome and tried to tell people that slavery is bad, they'd fucking LAUGH at you, and then execute you for being a Christian (because you are one, you're a Christian with Christian values).

>>42266326
Low iq, no education, just repeat what you hear from the pulpit. Good goy.

>>42266237
This faith is a curse for any LGBT person. It means years of denial and repression. We got handed two thousand years of homophobia, bigotry and ignorance. That's not love, it's psychological abuse.
I'll take a thousand years of globohomo over one day of christianity.

>>42264155
a good religion would treat trannies the same way it treats people with an illness i.e. they have sympathy and see them as warriors struggling with a great burden. instead they think trannies are all degenerates.

if i had a time machine i'd make a story just like the blind man one except it's jesus turning a tranny into a girl.

>>42266240
>Context only matters to discredit the evil bible verses, but not the ones I find wholesome
Baby the old testament has a whole chapter on slave trade. Paul's telling slaves to obey is pretty much contextual

>>42266326
Yes we have. Anti slavery isn't christian. As usual, a christian tries to appropriate every moral advancement like the deceitful snakes you usually are.
The bible literally condones slavery. Jesus never told masters to give slaves freedom. On the contrary, Paul told slaves to obey their masters. He told christian slave owners to convert their slaves.
Slavery is a christian tradition just like anti LGBT sentiment. You are literally twisting the bible so you don't have to see the evil in it

>>42266343
>just repeat what you hear from the pulpit.
For the third fucking time I'm not a Christian (but this conversation is making me start to wonder if I should be)
>Good goy
Oh.... okay. That explains a lot. GTFO >>>>/pol/

>>42266326
>If you time traveled to ~50AD Rome and tried to tell people that slavery is bad, they'd fucking LAUGH at you
The hebrews who invented your god would react the same. Slavery was a part of their faith, and god didn't feel like correcting that not even with the new testament. He was totally complicit because the bible was written by slave owners. It's a book of oppression, not liberation.

>>42266469
>As usual, a christian tries to appropriate every moral advancement
Are you even reading my posts or are you just feeding them into a chatbot? I'm. Not. A. Christian! And if you have to pretend I am one for your argument to work then you HAVE no argument, cope.

>>42266433
weird how you left out how paul said the masters should treat them the same way and how both the masters and slave the are the same in the eyes of God.

>>42266471
>not a christian
>Dying to defend christian reputation and deny their immoral biblical teachings
Be more honest with yourself.

>>42264155
I find it weird that religious/spiritual threads get a lot of attention on here but there's no religious or spiritual discussion to be had.
According to NDEs and pre-birth memories, people do choose to be incarnated as homosexual for a challenge.
I haven't found any evidence or spiritual explanations for transgender identity in accounts such as those.
Most people who were the opposite sex in a recent past life seem to have a detached view of the concept of sex and gender, it's more "matter of fact" than an emotional and physical attachment like we have here on earth.
The choice of becoming a male or female is also present, so if you are born AMAB or AFAB, you likely chose to incarnate as such.
However I'll admit I haven't found any cases for chosen intersex incarnations, so my interpretation of trans/intersex individuals in a spirtiual context is mostly incomplete.
I would think it would be similar to the homosexual life paths, because transgender ideology is fairly rooted in the material world. I think maybe trans people are less evolved spiritually and are more susceptible to samsara than other groups in the LGBT community.
We'll all get there someday.

>>42266502
Paul didn't say the masters should free their slaves. He condoned slavery and you pat him on the back.
>The same before god
But god still condones the act of one human owning another, lol. That's the evil of Christianity, it's the religion of obedient slaves who are taught to never run away, never seek freedom, but to take their plight with a smile. Don't worry, god will make it up to you, after you die of course. Never mind the slave owner who gets the same treatment after a lifetime of owning human beings.

>>42266490
>attributing every moral advancement to christians, undeservingly
Yeah right you're not a "christian". Just someone defending the christian reputation and giving them credit where none is due.
Totally not the same thing

>>42266551
meanwhile paul tried to enslave the whole species. fuck paul. jesus is based tho

>>42266502
Do you think slavery is moral if you treat them nicely?
Sounds like a good christian value, lmao. Paul was more disgusted with whores than human slavery. god has priorities

>>42266551
>paul plants the RADICAL IDEA not only into the slaves head but also the slave owners head that they are both EQUAL BEFORE GOD

>but he didn't literally walk up to the owners and tell them to free the slaves! that means christianity is pro slavery

you have done nothing else but shit up this thread with your bad faith arguments, leaving out the full verses, the biblical AND historical context. You're either severely handicapped or a troll.

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>>42266504
Okay, I'll be honest

I'm an atheist, but seeing your Dawkins-reading ass screeching autistically is making me feel like I shouldn't be

Pic related my man

>>42266616
Context! Magical word detected, you won the debate.

>>42266597
Jesus might have been based, but the picture the gospels paint of him is terrible. He is described as a megalomaniac egocentric tyrant who demands worship and threatens dissidents with eternal torment.
The only thing that can be said in his defense is that the real Jesus might have said nothing of the sort.

>>42266616
Of course he's a troll. And he doesn't even realize how much he's overplaying his hand (see >>42266624)

>>42266624
picrel is just like me when i'm told not to drink and drive through a school zone.

>>42266624
>You disapprove of my bigotry?
>So now I'll show you the real bigot
Literally emotional blackmail. "don't criticize my evil beliefs or I'll double down on them"
K then. Do it. You were never an atheist. You're literally dying to defend Christianity from criticism

>>42266624
>hi guys, im an atheist like you but dont you all agree atheists are big dumb dumb poo poo heads and that jesus invented puppies and electricity and made big bad go away? Shouldnt we kinda worship jesus i mean im an atheist but big bang is stupid and jesus loves us i mean so they say haha

>>42266616
>EQUAL BEFORE GOD
But not equal in this earth, lol. The slave still has a master, and Paul said it: obey your master!
So that means their "equality" will only be enacted after death.
That's the evil of christianity: it encourages victims of abuse to stay quiet, waiting for otherworldly reparations. It literally sows injustice with false promises, only benefiting slave owners in the process.
>God never cared to tell anyone in the entirety of the bible that owning a human being was bad
That's all the context you will ever need

>>42266661
>You were never an atheist
Why are you trying to gatekeep atheism? It literally just means you don't believe in God, it's not some exclusive club you weirdo lmao how do you not realize how embarrassing you're being?

>Let me shit all over the beliefs of two billion people or you're being a bigot
Not to be all "no u" anon, but....... no u

>>42266616
>leaving out the full verses
You mean bringing the evil verses that you ignore to life, as you climb hills to dismiss their evilness with "context".
Can I use context to discredit the verses you like? Or is context this magical key that only works to justify the evil in the bible?

>>42266689
>atheist
>Capitalizes god
>Defends christianity like his life depended on it
Yeah, I'm a christian actually. I just think that jesus was a fake prophet and the bible is all evil, but I'm still a christian at heart.

>stop shitting over christian beliefs, there's two billions of us- I mean them!
lmao what a temu atheist.

>>42266676
Christians aren't allowed to say God doesn't exist, are you retarded? You don't even understand the religion you are criticizing. And you wonder why there's lots of atheists now who are embarrassed to call themselves atheist?

>>42266724
>>Capitalizes god
It's a proper noun, it's grammatically correct to capitalize the G, cope.

>>42266774
You are allowed to lie, the only sin not forgivable is blasphemy against the holy ghost. So I dare you to curse the holy ghost now. Go ahead. Otherwise you admit to being a christian pretending to be an atheist.

>>42266797
okay I blaspheme the Holy Ghost

Are you happy? You're still retarded

>>42266789
No it's not, it's literally you letting your real beliefs slip through the character you're playing. You are as much of an atheist as I am a christian, and I burn bibles for a hobby

>>42266804
Saying the word blasphemy isnt blasphemy. You refuse to curse the holy ghost because you are a christian pretending to be an atheist.

>>42266804
nta but the holy ghost is Shekkinah, or Sophia, the most powerful of the holy trinity. Sophia was necessary for life

>>42266811
>No it's not
Yes it is retard

God (when talking about the Jewish/Christian god) is a proper noun, just like Odin or Jupiter or Amaterasu or w/e, if referring to non-specific gods then it's a lowecase g but if we're talking about the Christian God then it's a specific god so it's God

Capitalizing the H in He/Him/His implies an actual belief, but capitalizing the G in God is just grammatically correct

Retard

>>42266804
Jesus is a fake prophet. god is a lie. Jesus can suck Satan's cock in hell while god watches and masturbate his holy spirit.
You could never because you're not really an atheist, lmao. You're literally frightened by the prospect of going to hell like the good little christian sheep you are

>>42266820
>>42266820
Okay I curse the Holy Ghost

Happy? idk what specific sequence of words you're looking for here, I don't speak retard

>>42266874
See>>42266861

>>42266856
His proper name is Yahweh or Jehovah, not god. god is no different from lord, capitalizing either is a sign of faith. You are ignorant and not a true atheist

>>42266880
You asked me to curse the Holy Spirit and I cursed the Holy Spirit, quit moving the goalposts lol retard

>>42266940
LOL he actually refuses, busted. You are not the first missionary pretending to be an atheist, we know your tricks. The problem is you are retarded and make up for it only in lacking self awareness.

>>42266940
Curse like you actually meant it, use offensive language
You "cursed" it like a christian who's afraid of divine punishment lmao

>>42266968
>Curse like you actually meant it, use offensive language
Why? You can believe I'm a Christian all you want, as far as I'm concerned that's more your headache than mine. Personally I think Christianity is fake and gay but if it makes you mald I'll continue to defend it on the internet and watch the Christians on this site grow in their faith and confidence while you stew in your own misery lmao sucks to suck I guess

To be clear I don't even care what you believe or don't believe, I just find you personally annoying, and that's not an opinion you can argue your way out of lol cope

>>42267030
Lmfao the pretend atheist STILL refuses to use offensive language against the holy ghost after I pointed out its the only sin not forgivable per the bible. Lying retard.

>>42267049
>STILL refuses to use offensive language against the holy ghost
Because if I do that, you'll consider yourself to have "won" the argument and I don't want you to have that

I literally do not care if you follow Christianity just be less of an annoying retard please

>>42267087
Why can you only serve your religion through lies and deception? We have called you out on pretending to be an atheist. If you hade good arguments you wouldnt need to lie. Because you are so retarded and lacking in self awareness, you dont see the problem in having to lie to defend the supposed truth.

>>42267130
You have to pretend I'm some kind of undercover Christian because it's easier than admitting that you're so annoying even other atheists dislike you, cope

>>42267163
You have already admitted to being a christian and thus refusing to do the one unforgivable sin of insulting the holy ghost. If you hade even the slightest bit of shame you wouldve closed the thread, you’re anonymous after all.

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Bless Sophia <3

>>42267030
I'm a christian but personally I like to argue against christianity and god just to see other christians get mad and hope that their numbers and their faith dwindle and crumble before reason and logic

>>42267163
>some kind of undercover Christian
You're not undercover though, lmao
>I'm an atheist who wants to see christians grow their faith and confidence
Lmao yeah right. I'm a christian who burns bibles and shits on Jesus but that has nothing to do with my faith

>>42267087
atheists preaching annoy you, bit christians preaching in the gay board makes you jump to their defense
Your overall dishonesty is very suiting for a christian by the way, that's how they preach.

>>42267350
>christian
why say youre christian then? youre just a deist

>>42267372
because I am a christian and you don't have the authority to say otherwise, my heart is one with christ, he died for my sins sis. He just wasn't a demigod or a prophet, and didn't resurrect or perform miracles, he had schizophrenia most likely. I just love to argue against christianity as a whole and see their faith fail before facts, I love seeing the christian faith lose numbers and people leaving the faith en masse. I'm totally a christian though

>>42267420
>my heart is one with christ
>he had schizophrenia most likely
speaks volumes about you. i like to get to the bottom of things. i love jesus' message but i think the whole bible is a fiction. jesus prolly was a manifestation of the writing of the times. their 4chan was writing scripture. regardless i spread the message of his love and non judgement

>>42267514
His "love" was judgemental though. I mean not the real jesus, but the fabrication in the gospels of course. His message isn't as wholesome and hippie as you make it out to be, by "love" he meant total submission to his god and himself. "God is justice" after all, and jesus said "I don't bring peace, but a sword" and talked extensively about the punitive measures that awaited sinners and non believers. He was after all an apocalyptic jew who believed he would witness the end of the world in his lifetime.
I think you should look at his message critically and take out what is good but leave out the bad stuff, but also recognize there's a lot of bad things in there. Usually religious people will do a sanitization of jesus and pretend he's all about love, but I think that does more harm than good, because it traps innocent people in that twisted faith. If you were honest about jesus flaws and rhetorical shortcomings, maybe there would be less christians in the world, which is a good thing.
I'm 100% a christian though, nobody can take that away. My heart belongs to christ even though he was a mortal fake prophet with questionable teachings.

>>42267781
you’re right that the gospels are layered and edited, but flattening jesus into either hippie love or authoritarian submission misses the tension that actually made the movement survive

>>42267816
The "movement" survived because it was coopted by the most powerful empire at the time, and spread out forcefully with the power of tyrannical oppression for centuries. It survived artificially, not because the text has merit.
The gospels are fully fabricated by multiple people, and the reason why there's "tension" between different aspects of Jesus, is because they were written by different authors with different theologies.
The bible is made precisely so it can be cherry picked and used at a whim to justify any measure. Want to be forgiven for your sins? Quote jesus. Want to smite sinners? Quote jesus again. Want to escape the consequences of your actions? Pray to jesus for forgiveness. Want to make others face the consequences of their actions? Pray to jesus for strength to judge them wisely.
It's a sly and oily text that can fit any narrative you want.
You are clearly flattening the text under a favourable, highly sanitized and dismissive image of jesus being all good.
But you can trust me, a real christian, to show you the evil aspects of jesus.

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>>42264346
>>42264155
This is literally just the Abrahamism was never invented universe.
>>42264346
I'm a spiritual trans person, its not an issue.
In Hellenic polytheism Prometheus made people and then Dionysus got Prometheus and Hermes wasted and they decided to make LGBTQI people
The Gods themselves change genders and sexes and can change people's also
It is a gift and a curse since we have a wider perspective on the world

Yahweh got you down?
You dont need to become an atheist, deist or agnostic
Get better Gods

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>>42267864
you call yourself a real christian but have you even read the gnostic scripture? do you know there are more than 50 gospels?

>>42267366
>atheists preaching annoy you, bit christians preaching in the gay board makes you jump to their defense
Well yeah, I can do whatever I want, I'm a human with free will, and it's not like just because we're both atheists we're going to magically be friends lol you really are retarded huh? You have no idea how the world works do you?

If I have to throw two billion Christians under the bus just so you'll see me as a friend I'm gonna have to say no thanks buddy I'm not interested in what you're selling

>>42268686
I've read some of the Gnostic scriptures, they're neat, I'm more of a Buddha guy though desu

>>42264155
if transbians hadn't taken the militant communist pill, relations with christians, white men and chuds could have been salvaged. instead, they burned all bridges and picked fights with far stronger forces.

>>42270950
They're already been homo/transphobic for decades