In the 80s-90s there was an event called "The AIDS crisis" that killed like half the boomers and Xer G/T population.This means that when looking at a Gen X or Boomer gay such as Peter Thiel or Caitlyn Jenner we need to understand that this person is still alive. They didn't die. This means that many aspects of their behavior differ from the median among boomer/xer genetic G/Ts.This may also explain why Boomers and Xers are so unusually hostile. The gay population among them was obliterated.
>>42288960There's also this story from Detransition baby that goes into the effects this had on the new generation of trans girls (the author is an early millennial trans so first new generation after the crisis).Tldr; Zoomers aren't only lucky due to more resources and knowledge, they have more resources and knowledge because their mentor generation isn't dead.
>>42288979That said we wouldn't really expect the effect to be even. Transbians maybe would be hit less hard but especially straight trans men wouldn't be hit at all. Is there any reason to believe there are more mentor figures for straight trans men than other groups of trans?They do tend to have more youngshits I guess, maybe due to better resources. They also got a major website (tumblr) where we just got 4chan
Gaydens also hit pretty hard by it too
>>42288979would you reccomend one to read detransition baby? it seemed lame for a while so i havent read it
>>42289371I think it's good for understanding that generation of trans (transitioned in the 2000s). Probably less relevant for those nowadays but def important aspects for understanding that gen. And if you've had rhino and ever worry about getting your nose hurt it's great
A better name is the “ignoring doctors advice crisis”There was repeated warnings even before the aids virus was isolated to avoid the risky behavior which were not often ignored but often actively flaunted
>>42289525Risky behaviors like taking poppers which the current US Health Secretary believes causes AIDS rather than sexual activity
>>42289525Doctors advice at the time: kill yourself faggot you deserve aids if you fuck another man
>>42288960Pushing gays off cliffs was a national pass time in Australia.My uncles lecturer got lynched in the 70's
>>42289628No>>42289571Nope>>42289847Doctors advice wasnt to push them off cliffs either
>>42289876Come on, even being best faith possible AIDs was poorly understood for quite awhile. Sure in the 90s they'd tell you safe sex but in the early 80s they had no clue.The virus wasn't identified until 1984https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gallo> On May 4, 1984, Gallo and his collaborators published a series of four papers in the scientific journal Science[17] demonstrating that a retrovirus they had isolated, called HTLV-III in the belief that the virus was related to the leukemia viruses of Gallo's earlier work, was the cause of AIDS.[18] A French team at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, France, led by Luc Montagnier, had published a paper in Science in 1983, describing a retrovirus they called LAV (lymphadenopathy associated virus), isolated from a patient at risk for AIDS.[19]AIDs started killing large numbers of people around 1980, so that's a 4 year lag
>>42289013boomer/genx trans men are also a missing demographic, but for other reasonsusually if you try to find out why youll get some ad-hoc bullshit about "tomboys" that doesnt actually explain anythingpersonally i hypothesize that there might be a population-level genetic pendulum swing from more feminizing alleles to more masculinizing ones every couple of generations resulting in an actual underlying difference in numbersor maybe its chemicals in the water or something idk
>>42291554>personally i hypothesize that there might be a population-level genetic pendulum swing from more feminizing alleles to more masculinizing ones every couple of generations resulting in an actual underlying difference in numbersIdk if it's genetic, epigenetic, or cultural but it's definitely real. Founding Fathers vs. Civil War generation, etc.
>>42291554>population-level genetic pendulum swing from more feminizing alleles to more masculinizing ones every couple of generations resulting in an actual underlying difference in numbersor maybe its chemicals in the water or something idkIt's probably all of them at once.I found some old journals from late 19th century Poland (then russian empire) written by "family doctors". They were describing an unusual rise of feminine boys. And the ones at puberty manifested desires that on this board we'd call AGP. They didn't have the terminology for it but the descriptions were very oddly familiar.Also, in Japan, the wave of femboys and trannies of today happened before ww1 too.So there might be a cyclical thing at a population level as well.russia also had such a wave from 1880s till 1920s. No matter the politics. Now they have a new one, again, no matter the politics.Fascinating and scary at the same time.
>>42291624what are you talking about, which of the founding fathers were transi dont mean feminizing/masculinizing in the retarded grifter way, im talking about alleles of genes that have already been found to be strongly correlated with abnormal gender identity development, like the beta estrogen receptor, plus some other ones that probably exist that havent been discovered yet
>>42291676They weren't trans, they were much more feminine than the Civil War gen most obviously seen in their lack of facial hair. It was a more feminine aesthetic despite them being cis.
>>42291664whats scary about it, its just one of those things that biology does sometimeslike how rabbit populations fluctuate randomly on the scale of a few years
>>42291691where is the "shaving" allele
>>42291705>whats scary about itit's scary that these things happened before and we still have no idea at least how they happen, or their frequency.we're really shooting in the dark when it comes to these things.
>>42291751i still dont really see whats so scary about there sometimes being more boy trannies and sometimes more girl trannies
>>42291719That's why I would say it's cultural rather than genetic.However, desire for shaving could be genetic I guess. Or epigenetic in the sense that certain environmental stressors might make someone more or less likely to do it
>>42291950That part is not scary.What's scary is that we could've learned to predict and expect that but... we didn't.So we'll be surprised again next time it happens.
>>42291959Hmm how about male variability hypothesis?Dating dynamics shift and there are eras where relatively more genetically feminine or genetically masculine men "do well". The 80-90s were an era where femboys did well in the music scene. Thus more children from that era would be feminine.Today it's the era of Chad so perhaps more chad kids. So yea, it swings due to how dating dynamics worked in the parents gen.
>>42292005>Today it's the era of Chad so perhaps more chad kidsIf the chads end up reproducing though. And if the women they reproduce with aren't incel factories.Lots of ifs.Also it doesn't explain the relatively similar cycles of masculine women (pooners).You're probably right that some dating dynamics may play a role. A lot of nerds reproduced in the 80s and 90s too (whereas they wouldn't have in the 50s and 60s). A lot of their children are neurodiverse (and plenty trans too).The difficulty stands in the fact that there are plenty of cases that don't make sense at all. My brother is a very masculine man, 3 kids, had plenty of hookups in his youth. I'm a tranny who got herself together only at 30 or so. Significantly shorter than my brother, feminine by default since age 12, etc. etc.We recently did DNA tests for an unrelated medical issue. I was hoping that maybe I was adopted or something, but nope. Me and bro have the same father.
>>42292132I would just say pooners are the flip and opposite of the cycle and have chad dads. But you think they're in sync with mtfs? Hmm.
>>42292132>The difficulty stands in the fact that there are plenty of cases that don't make sense at all. My brother is a very masculine man, 3 kids, had plenty of hookups in his youth. I'm a tranny who got herself together only at 30 or so. Significantly shorter than my brother, feminine by default since age 12, etc. etc.This makes sense with simple genetics. Heterozygote stuff, etc. It's possible you get a trait and your bro doesn't.
>>42292197>But you think they're in sync with mtfs?I don't think anything. I'm just relaying some of the stories I've been reading in old books I found in my grandma's attic.I hope one day to have the time to research them more properly.It may indeed be the case that pooners are the opposite cycle. It certainly tracks with modern/contemporary experience with more recently pooners being more common. But it may also be because of increased availability of hrt and more space for expression. IDK the answer(s) and I don't pretend to know. Just throwing things out.>>42292219Perhaps. Ig it would've been easier to study/think if my parents had more than 2 kids.It will be interesting to observe what happens to the 3 kids that my brother has. Is this recessive? IDK, but I will likely live to see when my nephews grow up.
>>42292291>It certainly tracks with modern/contemporary experience with more recently pooners being more commonInteresting point! Definitely many more of them than even a few years ago. And perhaps less mtfs>But it may also be because of increased availability of hrt and more space for expression.I think this is true but doesn't explain why more mtfs 2017-2021 when these were known but less poons>It will be interesting to observe what happens to the 3 kids that my brother has. Is this recessive?I think as powers says it's more than one gene. One big one tho is the androgen receptor Gene on the X chromosome. In AMABs they have one X they get from their mom. The mom gets one from each of her parents. So the easiest way to see the effect of those Xs is in the maternal grandpa. But of course you and your brother can have different Xs as one of each of your mom's. Oh and of course he wouldn't pass it onto any of his son's but rather his grandsons.Another point. We're thinking of it as the "trans Gene" imo this is an innacurate framing. It's really the Chad/Stacey gene. FTM gene in amab goes Chad, mtf gene in AFAB goes Stacey. Chad and Stacey have a kid, normal baby as balance. Stacey and tranny/repper have a kid? Oh man
>>42292476>Stacey and tranny/repper have a kid? Oh manI did go down the rabbit hole of "is Dad a repper?" but... most likely he isn't.Given how my grandpa used to write, maybe he was a repper. He died before I reached puberty so I didn't have even a theoretical chance of asking him.
>>42288960I feel like that is not really how it happened tho>>42288979this is also pretty silly since any millennial will tell u how when they searched on alta vista or netscape or w/e and got lynn conway's website it traumatized themit wasn't that they didn't exist, and the clinical referrals have basically gone up every year for decades, so there was never a loss in that senseit also misses the point that a lot of labels and rhetoric are genuinely received, not constructed in the absence of past generations, and how younger generations were not sufficiently armed against such influence
>>42292570I think you're making some decent points but still, don't you think lots of trans and gays died of AIDs? Like it's hard to ignore demographically I think
>>42292635I mean iunno maybe, ppl like freddie mercury died, but realistically the members of queen were p old by thennot really sure about any good trans rolemodels tho, watch some donahue episodes for an idea of the vibeI vaguely remember sitting on the floor at my grandparent's and one of the episodes was on and I think one of the adults was like 'are they poofters' and it seemed pretty awful I think a few old timers are still alive like that one bond girl uhh caroline cossey, and seems like that tennis champ renee richards is still alivenot sure if burger becky counts since she transitioned later, but she only died recentlylynn conway herself died recently too I thinkand I mean everyone heard of dani bunten who died in the 90s due in part to conway's website jennel jacquays died recently and yeh they're white, but a lot of the reason black trans women weren't prominent was cos black women weren't prominent media figures, but u could still see them for better or worse on jerry springer but numbers just kept on going on and it's less like for the gay community where they were just in the closet, cos the definition was expanded too, as if u were to now include meterosexuals along w/ gay there were plenty of examples of how to be and most were not pretty or refinedthe idea that there was a motherly community that was decimated by aids seems more like a fantasy, as much as the idea that millennials are mother figures to zoomers when trans seems to mean something different than 10-20 years agoI think aids had little to do w/ it realistically imho
>>42292908>but realistically the members of queen were p old by thenAre you 12?By rock standards, the members of Queen were at the apex of their careers. Heck, Brian May still performs today (at 78). And their peers from the time still fill up stadiums today.You zoomers have a really lopsided (and by that I mean wrong) perception of age and what constitutes old.I hope I live long enough to see you all at age 45.
>>42292922u should really try coming up w/ different material instead of fixating on one sentence and taking it out of context
>>42288960True, I used to know an older gay guy in NYC and if he went too far into his youth as a gay guy he’d get melancholy because basically everyone he knew back then died
bump
>>42288979>>42292570>>42292635>>42292908does the concept of trans motherhood even make sense in the west? maybe polytheistic cultures might have such a thing, but monotheistic cultures seem to have for so long utterly repressed this aspect of human existence that we barely have anything at all to work with. most of us cant even agree on what we are beyond the vague label of trans, and we utterly hate each other over differences of motivation, behaviour, and desire. whos going to mother who when were trapped in a constant cycle of violence and making it means making it out to some place else?
>>42293242Yea, lots died. I don't know how it can really be ignored. I guess Zoomer ignorance?>>42292908Some survived yes but the point is the ones who survived were not the norm. Also less of them. >as much as the idea that millennials are mother figures to zoomers when trans seems to mean something different than 10-20 years agoI think millenials absolutely are. Zoomers don't know what it is to live without it. All their resources/ institutional knowledge/etc comes from somewhere.
>>42296904It's literally just a mentor figure. If you watch POSE and see the house system it shows it but I'd say even older trans on here who have been around awhile or figures like Zheanna showing other the ropes count.
>>42296921yes, but who on earth actually experiences anything like this? the most consistent feature ive found is that besides our peers were largely on our own, or if youre unlucky the older trannies will act abusive to the younger ones.
