The reaction of normies doesn't qualify your gender. There is a difference between expressing yourself by borrowing social characteristics, and trying to "pass" on the basis of social tolerance. For participating in this culture of "passing" by destroying yourselves for this glorious gender-affirming property of the normie's vision, you are doing those who deny or exploit your existence a great favor. You enforce yet another "ideal" form of a gender through dictating its supposed deficits while speaking so much of our rejection inciting our death. Both passoid-culture troons and looksmaxxing incels are kind of the same, for that matter. They reduce their deep problem of suicide, or genocide dare I say, by only factoring in their opposing presence around phobic normies while sweeping their own fatal lack of personal harmony under the rug. There is not enough guilt and shame for this putrid negation taking place across LGBT culture.
You're a theyfab Go back to TikTok or something
>>42714446I didn't understand a single thing you just said
>>42714446can you rewrite this but coherently?
>>42715241I understood what OP said completely fine youre just acting retarded
>>42714446ok literally what ever i want to be pretty and feminine and feel good about myself and my body and not be dysphoric i literally can not function and lose all of my personhood and sense of self if i don’t spend 5 hours on my appearance every day. i tried not participating in passing culture and what ever from the ages of like 16.5-18 which was basically like being nonbinary which i am not. and i ended up so fucking annoying and delusional and i was just coping instead of addressing my actual issue of not being pretty or passable enough. it ruined my personality and everyone hated me cause i was a coping retard. my body’s the main thing i care about at least for now until im in a place where i can worry abt other things. the emotional safety people find in giving up caring about passing is the same thing as what obese ppl find in eating 5 burgers every day. the reality is if ur a dysphoric tranny u don’t get the ability to not do all that. anything else is woke detransition spiritual suicide israelgpt therapist psyop cope. my appearance is a responsibility and need like drinking water is and the man thing in my overall wellbeing. “gender” is retarded and only a thing that can be worried about only once my body is where it needs to be if u only care about ur “gender being valid” ur gonna end up a vicarious agp retard
>>42715335>They reduce their deep problem of suicide, or genocide dare I say, by only factoring in their opposing presence around phobic normies while sweeping their own fatal lack of personal harmony under the rug. There is not enough guilt and shame for this putrid negation taking place across LGBT culture.yeah okay this is pure wordslop
>>42715349main thing * lol not man
>>42714446Trvke that they aren't ready for. Stop caring about passing. Look like what you want to look like. The obvious rebuttal is that "what I want to look like someone who passes though" but your desire has been actively shaped by the need to pass and society's standards of what female is. Now of course how some people will want to look will naturally fall into this range of passing, but passing itself shouldn't be your actual goal as you will inevitably be chasing a bullshit standard set by society on some level. For example 99% of you bitches that are height dysphoric only feel that way cause it's socially induced. If you lived in a society where being tall as a woman is expected as a beauty standard you wouldn't care. Meanwhile there's other traits you wouldn't be ok with regardless of society. The point is to deconstruct these socially induced dysphorias and stop being a conformist npc.
>Trvke that they aren't ready for. Stop caring about passing. Look like what you want to look like. The obvious rebuttal is that "what I want to look like someone who passes though" but your desire has been actively shaped by the need to pass and society's standards of what female is. Now of course how some people will want to look will naturally fall into this range of passing, but passing itself shouldn't be your actual goal as you will inevitably be chasing a bullshit standard set by society on some level. For example 99% of you bitches that are height dysphoric only feel that way cause it's socially induced. If you lived in a society where being tall as a woman is expected as a beauty standard you wouldn't care. Meanwhile there's other traits you wouldn't be ok with regardless of society. The point is to deconstruct these socially induced dysphorias and stop being a conformist npc.
>>42715415I'm a transfem enby>inb4 I get pooner reacted again
>>42715407>For example 99% of you bitches that are height dysphoric only feel that way cause it's socially induced. If you lived in a society where being tall as a woman is expected as a beauty standard you wouldn't care. Meanwhile there's other traits you wouldn't be ok with regardless of society. The point is to deconstruct these socially induced dysphorias and stop being a conformist npcI was disagreeing with you until I got to this point. The whole obsession with things like height and clothing and social roles isn't gender dysphoria, these people unironically care more about being able to LARP as a trad Chad/Stacy than about changing their actual sexual characteristics.
>>42715438Eh, I would say calling it a social dysphoria is accurate for most conversations. I think basically all terminology related to trans stuff is wrong in some ways and we need new terms to better describe things. But I just use existing terms for normal convo.
>>42715456But yeah this isn't gender dysphoria. Forget that.
>>42715423
>>42714446This is fucking retarded
>>42715456>>42715489I was agreeing with you anon.
You're a fucking retarded theyfab. People with actual dysphoria need it, we don't care how heccin valid you think we are, we are still suffering and we need to just be perceived as our real gender.You will never understand it because you think being trans is a quirky little label you can use to defy the system with your colored hair and your foid tits and your he/xe/they pronouns pin. Of course you have the time to think about all this bullshit, because this doesn't mean anything to you. But some of us suffer and all we need is to be perceived as standard, normal people, and you are making it even worse for us, when you will probably detransition when you grow up and get bored of being a heccin valid emo demi-poondood.
>>42714446>having standards at all is genocideidgaf about what some normalfag thinksbut anyone opposed to hrt and surgery is certified CIA agent
>>42715581I hold this opinion and tried to kill myself on two occasions because of dysphoria. If anything it would be somehow who isn't dysphoric that would disagree. They'd be like "well if you don't care about the social idea of being a woman why are you trans?" (average cissoid thinks trans means high level crossdresser) BECAUSE OF FLESH MY SICKLY ROTTING TESTOSTERONE POISONED FLESH YOU ASSHOLE I DON'T CARE ABOUT NONE OF YOUR FOID SHIT AND PASSING I JUST WANT TO RIP THIS STUPID FLESH OFF UNTIL IT'S SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T BRING ME PAIN I WANT TO BE ME NOT WHATEVER YOU WANT ME TO BE FUCK YOU
>>42715438being tall is universally a positive thing when it comes to beauty. being 6'4" as a trans woman means that when people evaluate you, your height alone makes it more likely that you are a trans woman than a cis woman. no one alive treats trans women like they are actual women, so this induces gender dysphoria if they see you as one. this also affects how you see yourself. social standards will always do this. trannies get dysphoric over not shaving, a social concept. this isn't about beauty, it's about adhering to what the average woman/man looks like and feeling like shit when you can't over mostly immutable features.
>>42714446i think there's not enough guilt and shame for the fact that we've come back around to straight up saying "trans people should resist the urge to transition" but with a woke veneer
>>42715719"passing" means looking like a cis man or cis woman too by the way. actually telling trannies to not be upset over looking like their birth sex. kind of insane, and the word slop that sacrifices legibility for emphasis makes it worse.
>>42715757You can be dysphoric over immutable traits. It's just many people feel bad over certain things only for socially constructed reasons, which they could free themselves of. It's dumb to hold yourself to this things needlessly when there's real dysphoria to get upset over.
>>42715781>It's just many people feel bad over certain things only for socially constructed reasons, which they could free themselves of. It's dumb to hold yourself to this things needlessly when there's real dysphoria to get upset over.A social construct is still a thing that exists and effects your life. Methinks that being dysphoric over having traits that are incongruent with being socially percieved as your desired gender/sex is completely fine actually.
>>42715407>"your desire has been actively shaped by the need to pass and society's standards of what female is....If you lived in a society where being tall as a woman is expected as a beauty standard you wouldn't care"No fucking shit? "If you lived in a society where this trait was considered feminine than you would not be dysphoric over having a feminine trait" But we don't live in that society. I assume you are GNC, or advocate for people being GNC, on the basis of not wanting to be a "conformist npc [sic]". Do you accept than in an arbitrary frame of reference (such as the one you posed) that you could be a conformist, or do you think, for whatever reason, you would always be GNC?
>>42715407>For example 99% of you bitches that are height dysphoric only feel that way cause it's socially induced. If you lived in a society where being tall as a woman is expected as a beauty standard you wouldn't care.nigga is you retarded? women aren't tall they are small this isn't a beauty standard it's just a fact we're not pygmies
>>42715941It's gay and cis people are equally faggots for doing it.
>>42715999I think people should strive for what they want for themselves alone and not anyone elses standards. And if it happens to fully align with gender norms by chance then so be it. In a society where what I am isn't GNC I'd still be what I am and not deviate.>>42716013Woman being tall has historically been a desirable trait across various cultures. For most I think they only want to cause of society, but if someone breaks down their conceptions of gender and society's standards and still wants to be short then so be it. They at least now know they're doing it for truer reasons than before.
>>42715542picrel crushes my soul
>>42715581>we don't care how heccin valid you think we areExactly, you literally shouldn't. That's precisely my point. All that expression takes at minimum is for a message to be sufficiently adhered. Whether that message is adhered by those who follow the social convention and "fall for" your efforts to achieve it, or adhered by those who respect your identity regardless of this convention is entirely up to you. It's only wrong when you dictate others to seize specific traits against their will in order to mold their identity to any "ideal" form. It's wrong when you force people to choose a specific method against their own means of expression, because you'd be reproducing the same fucking consequences as phobic normies telling trans people their traits aren't good enough or will never be good enough.It's better to seek people who respect your identity for what it is. Once again, said in a different way: The first thing is about expressing the traits you want, whether it resonates with the common conception or not, whether these traits are even "borrowed" from convention in the first place or not. The second thing is trying to "pass" for people who would reject whatever other trait that "doesn't pass" as anything. My point is the consequences of the latter aren't simply limited to transphobes. Would you want to be as much of a woman as possible to an orthodox Christian, or is it better to say "go fuck yourself" and find people who see you for you? Why should that be limited only to them?>because boys will NOT have tits because I said so
>>42716072>I think people should strive for what they want for themselves alone and not anyone elses standardsi'm 14 and this is deep
>>42716461>>42715999>I assume you are GNC, or advocate for people being GNC, on the basis of not wanting to be a "conformist npc [sic]"I'm not whoever you replied to. There's still a problem with the language of "nonconformity", because what is this "not conforming" against? It's only describing whatever is "conformist" in a negative sense against a traditional/conventional order, I feel like it still reinforces the other two conceptions in a way.We could draw an identical concept for the conditions of which these identities are alike, and then reduce their differences down to their ideal form, situating any element of these identities as a "particular" of their general form. A gender "in particular" according to the traditional order is generally determined by chromosomes; different than the social conception. A gender "in particular" according to the social order is generally determined by social convention; different than the traditional conception.The social conception at least enables more freedom of movement; because the particular is enabled to imply the general much more fluently than a solid particular element; it doesn't let them be wholly determined by singular traits like chromosomes and instead depends on the social convention. The problem is we are still behaving as if the general implies the particular, as if there are "universal" traits of which a gender is composed of, as if we are to "pass" into it. Both of these have the same septic problems, it catastrophically removes identities that are different to their supposed generality, which makes no sense if we are already in a state of becoming ourselves inasmuch as the conventional order. We could continue debating with this sclerotic and meddlesome discourse of what satisfies the "general" conception of gender, it'll always be the same juggling act that forces people to behave in a particular manner against their wills of which "don't conform".
>>42716126>>42716531t. lexapro prescription
all these hylics are mad but you’re literally right and trannies have existed in your way for thousands of years
so this thread is the culprit of the upsurge of even more socially insecure and miserable passmaxxing troons hypocritically complaining about "fakes" in this board elsewhere? lmao
>>42714446>>42715349cope>>42716126gigacopeseethe harder
>>42716126Fucking kill yourself you clearly don't know what tf you're talking about bitch.You have the whole world to be your safe space as a quirky afab, everyone supports woke little afab wholesome demidoods. This is the only place we have for us. Even in your safe spaces us MtFs are seen as the malebrained rapegender.Get off here and go live your amazing life without real dysphoria, bitch
>>42721461>You have the whole world to be your safe spaceThe opposite, actually. That's certainly evident from your violent projection, for one. So much of the shit you just complained about isn't even my stated opinion or experience, so clearly you're just traversing each and every aspect of your shitty social life in order to somehow justify what being an MtF is by having "real dysphoria". It's already justified alone, your identity does not need to rely on a specific social integration (but once again, its your choice who you associate with!). You complain about afab social greed being excessively satisfied by their wealth of everyone, of transphobes (the ones who see you as "malebrained rapegender"), while you're consumed by your impotent greed for their hateful currency. That totally makes sense for your well being and makes it worth the endless struggle, right? Wouldn't you be unknowingly reinforcing this shitty status quo you're complaining about, according to those same pundits and scribes of the social order you're complaining about, if you reach your goal of meeting their ends for your own? Instead, why not seek people who recognize you for your own; and live in harmony with them if this shitty social climate, all in all, won't be a good enough "safe space" for either of us? We are both bitching about the same thing here.
>>42722271>Quite the opposite actuallyStfu. The world sees you as a slightly weird cis girl, it may hurt you because you want to be a cool woke xenogender but you don't have enough dysphoria to do something about it. Instead, at least for MtFs, the world sees us as degenerate perverted rapist men and is constantly plotting against us, taking our rights away, humiliating us in every way possible.Do we both experience discrimination? Of course. But you trying to pretend we are the same and questioning us for "wanting to adhere to stereotypes" when we just want to alleviate our suffering is painfully retarded and of course you're gonna get insults
>>42722518I have enough dysphoria to care about *other* people's dysphoria instead of focusing on my social security. I care about relieving the presence of people's dysphoria; and I care about the results of how people alleviate their suffering that their dysphoria posits, which already affects the social space that affects each of us, down to each of our own dissatisfaction. Thinking that your suffering can be alleviated without any harms way to yourself or other people in this matter is retarded and borderline hedonistic. Alleviating your suffering at the expense of strengthening your ideal gender by telling people to change their identity for how the rest of the world sees them is so dissonantly selfish and self-annihilating. I'd rather not configure myself for people who want me dead and think its funny, literally nobody should.>But you trying to pretend we are the sameI said we complained about similar things, you're just too braindead to figure out what produces your complaints.>questioning us for "wanting to adhere to stereotypes"Even though I said it's fine to use traits that adhere to social convention. >>42716126You're forcing people to use those traits, on the other hand. "you want to be a cool woke xenogender" you sound like a pissy cuckservative right now lol
>>42714446ugly hon posting
>>42715581because it is a quirk nobody is born on the wrong body.
Despite non-dysphorics always acting like gender is some vibes-based thing, they always act like its some mental aura rather than the vibes they actually give off. And neither is the sex of their vibes the end all to their bad vibes.
>>42723152All you're doing is reinforcing the arguments of those who already hate us, like that retard above.
>>42723277I didn't mean you tho I agree with this lmao
>>42715581I'd say dont worry about them "detransitioning" because they rarely if ever pursue a medical one, but Lord only knows how they'll turn hating medical transitions into their personality after.
>>42723278keyword: already
I am here from 4chan's front page for the goth girl.Apparently this is the LGBT forum, and you guys struggle a lot with whether or not you look like the thing you want to look like.I find this upsetting, mostly because I would look like anything as long as it got me a functional body, but thank you for the goth girl.
Faggot bussies matter
>>42715407If I was following societal pressures based on gender I'd look like a dude lol. Me wanting to look like a cute passing doll is gender non conforming, it just doesn't suit your odd interpretation of what a 'good trans person' looks like politically. Ie; you want us all to wear some ideological commitment to your political beliefs about passing on our sleeves. I do not share your beliefs, my passing IS my expression of counter culture.
>>42723289Definitely lolIt infuriates me that this person, who clearly doesn't experience the same things as a trans person with dysphoria, tries to tell us how we should express our pain in a woke way, with this "toxic transgenders :((" bullshit. Since he has no idea what it's like to be one of us, he believes that our misery stems solely from bad intentions and that with the power of xexirlove and poonfriendship we can change and be perfect little pure moral angels, when in reality it stems from the fact that our life is a genuine hell due to a condition we did not choose and that no one cares to hear about, not even our own community since this theyfab discourse sounds more pretty and wholesome.
>>42723364Anon, just be glad you're obsessive over gender issues and not over having to count every grain of rice that falls in front of you.
screencap low effort post but this rings true every time
>>42723364>tell us how we should express our pain in a woke wayNot in a woke way, but in a way that only makes normies uncomfortable, with our looks in a clown-like manner.
>>42723400>i aint readin allat ill just post something OP was already critical of
>>42723374Stfu retard I've had other struggles in life too like everybody else. My teeth and bones are fucked because as a kid I would barely be fed every other day, but what does it have to do with gender dysphoria?You're just proving my point. Nobody fucking cares about dysphorics, not even in lgbt spaces, yet retarded theyfabs will always say they're the most opressed ones and we are monsters that don't deserve anything.
>>42723448theres definitely no oppression involved in telling other people how to express themselves right>BUT THE NORRRMIIIESSS WHAT WILL THEY THINK
>>42723374True, in light of moments like October 7th we should consider ourselves all highly privileged and not to chase such "luxuries"
>>42714446>expressing yourself by borrowing social characteristicswhy do you assume this is my aim? i have sex dysphoria. i transitioned because it's the only way i can be comfortable.
"Changing" your pronouns isnt an alternative for therapy around trauma or frustration wtih gender norms/expectations.
>>42723400You don't understand it's totally your responsibility as a trans woman to let people deconstruct gender roles. You do this by respecting how other people transition. Women are able to have body hair so it's optional for them to get electrolysis. Women are able to have flat chests so it's optional for them to start hrt. Women can have deep voices so it's optional for them to voice train. It's incredibly important for all of us as women that we have the right to express our gender however we like! Trans women can transition trans women can transition trans women can transition!!
>>42723448People care about dysphorics as much as they care about any other obsessive group, anon.
>>42723630Actually, changing pronouns is a type of therapy developed to lower the suicide rate in gender obsessives, with moderate results.
