Would Brienne have been butch or FTM if she existed in the moderrn world?
>>42892742I feel like she was pretty FtM coded. But whenever I'm looking at a fictional character with a gender issue I always think about who the author is and what their relationship with gender is. GRRM is pretty competent at writing a broad range of female characters, but all of his male characters were pretty samish. Like he's got a very concrete but narrow idea of what a man is, but his exploration of women is a lot more diverse. Which makes me say that Brienne is not actually FtM but rather just a hypothetical collection of tropes, specifically centered on the "man with boobs" archtype. Other examples include Vasquez from Aliens, Cara Dune from The Mandalorian, Mother Russia from Kickass 2, Revy from Black Lagoon. Basically it is a male character, played by a female actor, and then they hang a latern on it to make it make sense. It doesn't actually reflect a real person, or even a real archtype. They're always written by men, and there's always a sexual undertone. Fetish seems like a strong, but it's really "here's woman who is actually equal to men in the ways that matter to men (skill at violence, trustworthiness and dependability), but also a sex object."I think gwendoline christie tried pretty hard to strip the character of her status as a sex object and treat her as an FtM, but I also think the showrunners were pretty intent on making sure the character remained a sex object with the focus on Tormund's persuit of her. Television & Film is one of my autisms.
>>42892742Shouldn't you guys have more culturally specific identities for her that work for her time period?
>>42892894I feel like my effortpost deserves more attention so I'm (You)ing myself. Also I think I missed caffeine, because I've been on fire all day.
>>42892894>Stripping her of sexuality Lame. Should have let her own it. You can't control whether people are attracted to you or not, but deciding for yourself how to project yourself is the only real agency you get. Projecting asexuality just to subvert expectations is cutting off your nose to spite your face. And considering the actress herself has never been scared to openly project her sexuality I don't see why Brianne should have to be different just for the superiority complex. It's overly didactic. Stop trying to police attraction. Long as people keep their hands to themselves, who gives a fuck.
>>42892742mtf manmoder hsts
>>42892742no
>>42892968I think that's harsh. I think Gwendoline was trying to take something that, by it's nature, is two dimentional and trite and turn it into something that was three dimensional and meaningful. And that's where the FtM coding is really coming from, she's kind of taken the man with boobs trope and said "okay, but if I'm going to play a man with boobs then I'm going to play a MAN with boobs."And if you look at the male characters accross the GoT ensemble none of the men, excepting maybe Kahl Drogo, are treated as sex objects. In fact most of the time male sexuality is treated as either a shameful, or even an outright evil thing (Tyrion's relationship with prostitutes, Joffrey's abuse of women, the rape of Sansa, Stannis fucking a shadow assasin into existence), while female sexuality is treated as natural and healthy no matter what (Shae's betrayal of Tyrion, Arya's perfunctory loss of virginity, Cercie's incest, Margary Tyrell's hypergamy). So now look at the character from Gwendoline's point of view, she's basically being asked to play The Hound, a character who is moral because he's asexual (and you have to look at GRRM to realize his relationship to sex probably isn't healthy). And so that's what Gwendoline has played, a character who's morality is rooted in asexuality who also happens to be female. But the showrunners have sided with you, and yeah probably recognized that Gwendoline the human being is unashamed of her sexuality, and so have forced sexuality back onto the character of Brienne. But for me I think Gwendoline was right, not just about Brienne but about the man with boobs trope. If you're going to put a man with boobs character in a context where male sexuality is evil, then either that character has to be asexual or that character has to be villainous. I think the real problem is that neither GRRM or the showrunners were comfortable with that line of inquiry into their own relationships with their sexualities.
>>42893048Are you forgetting that she simped for the gay would be king? So she wasn't asexual. Nor was she a complex of trauma like the hound. She could have easily evolved sexually. By stripping that out she was reduced to an ace mascot.
>>42893118>Are you forgetting that she simped for the gay would be king?Well that supports exactly what I'm saying. Renly is moral because he's gay. Maybe he would have evolved into a villain, but at the point he died (because stannis being a perv) he was virtuous. >So she wasn't asexual.I don't see how that follows. >Nor was she a complex of trauma like the hound.What makes the Hound a moral character is that he relates to both Sansa and Arya as protector not predator. So too does Brienne. >She could have easily evolved sexually.IF she was stripped of her masculinity. Which she was by Tormund predating her. >By stripping that out she was reduced to an ace mascot.Naw see this is where I think you're not picking up what I'm putting down. The character isn't being reduced by anything, because the character as written is a generic man with boobs, which is a dumb lazy trope. So to elevate the character to something HBO worthy we either have to feminize (and by extension sexualize) the character, or we have to code the character FtM. Gwendoline has chosen the latter, the showrunners have chosen the former. So to go back to the original question, is Brienne FtM, I think ultimately the answer is no because the showrunners ultimately got their way despite a heroic effort by Gwendoline Christie to develop the man with boobs trope into something that isn't just hacky and stupid.
>>42893183You are well into the hallucination stage of your fan interpretation. More power to you. But you're extrapolating ideals that aren't apparent to the regular viewer, or in fact any viewer that's not attributing the exact ideals you are.Fact is, the writing was not as deep as you're assuming, that's without it turning into a hamfisted tard fest or did when the original material got thin. You're projecting Brienne as an FTM. You're welcome to do that, but it's your own fanfic.
To be honest I like to believe she's straight and cis female. Instead I'd like her to help define the breadth of what women are.
>>42892742Could a foid even walk in that heavy armor? And then swing a sword around? And last for a whole battle? With her tine muscle mass? Unrealistic.
>>42892742I dont know about the show but book Brienne very clearly liked men, and didnt necessarily see herself as one, she just felt she wasnt pretty or good enough to be a proper lady and enjoyed fighting.
>>42894042Swords weigh like 3 kilos, and the weight of the armor is distributed over the body so it's like whatever
>>42894548W copes.
>>42893306It's called literary analysis sweety, it's something smart people do. And my conclusion was Brienne was NOT ftm.
>>42894042https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc
