Does this image apply to straight identifying transwomen too?
for five years it did unfortunately :( i should kill myself probably
it's currently in vogue for women to talk about men the way men talked about women in the 1500s it's such a shame we have to desire these perfidious little devils, these shameful little harlots, not a single one of them has an honest sentiment in their soul, etc. The more social power women get, the more they'll hate men, that's how it was with patriarchy I don't know why it'd be different if you can change which gender has more social power.
>>43026610yeah probably
>>43026613i dont think women even hate men per se, theyre just realising they have no real attraction to men and are coping with it poorly by blaming the men for it instead of realising theyre just not androphilic.
>>43026587most men are kinda ugly and icky and rude. while finding an actually, truly ugly woman is pretty rare in my experience. i have very specific standards though.
>>43026621I see where you're coming from but i disagree. a lot of booktok women will hate on men over and over, and then their favorite book is like rapist vampire rapes a frizzy haired tomboy. it really is no different than guys who bitch about promiscuous women and want a virgin and then jerk it to gangbangs and resent their girlfriend for not wanting a cock up the ass. another tiktokker i saw all of her posts are insane arguments with imaginary sexist men, and then she spills in a "comedy skit" that her fantasy is she gets sexually used by a loan shark LMAO. getting fucked by a loser for women is the equivalent to falling in love with a whore for men. "all men are losers and give me the ick" is the equivalent then to "all women are whores and use you for money."
>>43026587That ain't really it.I'm not attracted to how you LOOK. And the fact that you think that's the end of it makes me not like you. I'm attracted to who you are an how you make me feel. Even when I think about a simple hookup I think about how is this going to go, how comfortable am I going to feel going back to his place? and how is he going to make me feel during the act?For boyfriend material I'm looking for actual compatibility once you enter PNC and actually get to know me, are you going to be okay with me sperging out about my autisms? Are you going to give me alone time when I need it? Are you going to be able to communicate with me in a way I understand?For the most part modern men are lonely but otherwise content. I'm looking for a place in their lives and they don't actually have one. If a guy actually make space for me and actually wants me to be there, I'll be there, but so far none of them ever do. Once they cum, they're done, and I'm discarded like a dirty tissue. It really doesn't feel great. And the worst part is guys don't seem to get how their sexuality works. I do, I know what male sexuality feels like, but guys don't recognize even when they're in the worst of it. I'll be there when you need me, but you don't even seem to understand that you're going to need me. Like you just enjoy being tricked.
>>43026661nona, they discard you because they think they can do "better". I implore you to stop sleeping with men who aren't actually going to make some space for you in their life before they sleep with you. when they stop talking to you, they do that because they're gambling someone more socially "worthy" of romantic feelings will come along to meet their needs. Please, take care of yourself.
>>43026686You're not wrong, they are. They need somebody who is going to understand and take care of their needs. Their issue is that as soon as they're no longer feeling male horniness ruining their ability to think clearly they think it's never going to happen again. It inevitably does, but at that point they've ghosted me, and now they've got their hands and subscription porn. I would literally have better luck forming a relationship with a modern man on onlyfans than on a dating app. They don't ghost their onlythotts, they develop an actual relationship with their whores, but can't manage more than one interaction in a row with someone who isn't charging for nudes.
>>43026661all those words when you could have just said "im agp"
I spent a solid two minutes trying to figure out why /k/ was complaining about women
>>43026649>her fantasy is she gets sexually used by a loan shark LMAOit IS hot thoughbeit
>>43026587There are Men, women, and trans men and women that are like this too. They kinda exist in their own self made hell's where no one is ever good enough and their always alone. Really we should pitty them, learn from their mistakes.
im so glad im at least kinda androphilic and dont care if men watch porn as long as its not 3dpd troonslop
>>43026587Cringe post and unironically erasure of straight women. You're also proveding more anecdotal evidence that lesbians are just females with male brains in all the worst sorts of ways.
>>43026587Yeah honestly my androphilia became like this it's weird. Too many shitty men put me off of men.
>>43026765Thanks for offering me your retarded opinion, but I'm allergic to retard.
>>43027027straight as in actually androphilic women are unironically the smallest sexual minority. they practically dont exist. all yaoi/bl and womens eroticaslop is extremely AGP coded, and there are no straight women subbing to male OF creators.
>>43026587'Straight' trans'women' are gay men so no
>>43027055ridoculous take. the world is full of shitty women but straight men still want to fuck them. people need to come to terms with the fact that object oriented attraction is nearly all due to testosterone. when troons turn it off they are no longer androphilic like they used to be and evem the faggiest HSTS starts looking more and more like an AGP.
>>43027194Well oddly it comes in cycles and my gynephilia does too, but the cycles are independent. Like I can be both gynephilic and androphilic, just androphilic, just gynephilic, and neither.
>>43027184Genes that make men gay, make women androphilic. Sisters of gay men have way more kids that other women
>>43026587But cis women ARE attracted to men? There are probably more women with low sex drives than men, there are some women who use sex transactionally but that doesn’t preclude attraction, and the threat of violence they face from men is very real. Despite all of that the majority are emotionally and sexually attracted to men. Are you guys just not getting any or something? Is this “boo hoo women hate men” shit cope for striking out all the time?
>>43027194weird because being on E has only made me find masculinity more attractive. im now exclusively attracted to men, and not twinks, strong masculine men.
>>43027210thats why i say nearly all. im willing to believe actually andropholic women may exist but they are unironically a very small minority, maybe 1% of them or less. in society and culture they are completely invisible.
>>43027212womens "attraction" to men is largely agp type meta-attraction. they dont experience actual androphilia and they cant really even understamd what its like most of the time. its why the "ick" exists, it breaks the meta-attraction narrative.
>>43027217exceptions exist, and the development of your brains was still influenced by testosterone, E probably cant undo ALL of it.
>>43027242I wish it did it would be cooler that way
>>43027281as far as fantasies go i wish it was possible to retain all of the cool parts abput testosterone like strength, drive and motivation but just cut off the sex drive part. it enslaves me to womens allure and tries to make a simp of me at every turn unless i actively resist it.
>>43027299No I just want to be the pathetic little girl I was earlier on HRT. Like I had some weird dizziness fainting stuff that sucked buuuuut any guy could have grabbed me and made me his desu.
>>43027350really? even chris chan (pre transition)?
>>43027393perhaps you should reconsider life
>>43027184>straight as in actually androphilic women are unironically the smallest sexual minorityt. has never talked to actual women before
>>43026587It depends if they are straight AGP (yes) or HSTS (no, resembles gay men, iwnbaw)
>>43027233Sure meta attraction is a factor, but that’s crazy to think women don’t sexualize and objectify men the same way men do them. I’ve had gfs fixate on me and my body in ways that are definitely expressions of their desire rather than about affirming their femininity for themselves. I’m also the only cis male at my job with a dozen women coworkers; and believe me they engage in locker room talk about guys. The female gaze is alive and well
>>43027450im in a relationship with one right now and while im no chad ive had ONS and even a fwb situation. women can enjoy being fucked and they definitely enjoy the idea of being fucked by a high status man in particular, but as far as actual androphilia, ie object oriented attraction to the male form goes, women are by large almost incapable of feeling it. my own experiences only corraborate this. my fwb ended because she got the ick when it was revealed im a nerdy loner lol. the ick breaks the narrative and thats why women "lose their attraction" - it never really existed in the first place. its just agp type meta attraction.
>>43027465so where are the womens porn mags and male of models they sub to? playgirl was a failure because women dont actually get off to mens bodies per se, they just like them as a part of a narrative and what thet say about his social status. if womem were actually attracted to mens bodies you would see it being monetised. but instead of looking at men, women comsume agp coded erotica that is all about the women instead of the men they feature. to me occams razor says women just dont like male bodies all that much.
>>43027528>my fwb ended because she got the ick when it was revealed im a nerdy loner lol.Ok? That can be true whether you're physically attractive or not.>the ick breaks the narrativeWhy? Nobody, woman or man, is exclusively attracted to physical attributes alone.>and thats why women "lose their attraction" - it never really existed in the first place.You were probably just ugly from the get go.
>>43027594>Ok? That can be true whether you're physically attractive or not.exactly, she got the ick because her attraction to me never mattered, she was aeoused by her internal narrarive of "being railed by a high status man" which i failed to uphold. >Why? Nobody, woman or man, is exclusively attracted to physical attributes alonesure, mens sexual fantasies often include narrative and autosexuality too. the difference is that as far as i can see, those are the ONLY modes of attraction women really respond to. like ive said, nobody has ever managed to mometise mens bodies by marketing them to straight women. gay OF male models and escorts outnumber heterosexual male OF creators and escorts by a ridiculous margin even though women are half the globe and gay men are a small minority. >you were probably just uglyy-you too.
>>43026587AGPs keep winning
>>43027571plenty of women do watch porn, but a lot of it is male on male gay porn. They also have an easier time finding willing partners for casual sex, so the need for porn isn’t as great. I think the way women and teen girls crush on pop musicians and actors is coming from this same place- boy bands obviously cater to a real market niche.
>>43027645Why would a woman pay for porn of dudes when she could just say, “hey i wanna see some peens” and get her inbox flooded with dick pics?
>>43027712gay men watch porn and sub to OF ane use male escorts even though getting laid on grindr is trivial. yes, they do like k-pop idols, and celebroties in general. and vampires and fictional sadistic billionaires. what do these guys have in common? social status is the driver. women are aroused by a narrative, and while mens looks are a part of that, its never the object itself.
>>43027761why do gay men pay? and why do you think those tinder chads have the time to fuck all the women at the drop of a hat if women are so supremely attracted to men - surely they would have more pussy tham they can handle and as a rrsult, women wouldnt actually be able to fuck them so easily? please walk this logic to its conclusion.
>>43026613Men actually did not talk about women like this in the 1500s, when you read chroniclers of that era they're broadly pleased with the women and even admiring because the women stay in their assigned role, don't try to interfere with men's business and have no sexual boundaries. The word "misogynist" was invented to describe a man writing in the 17th century.
>>43027766I have basically zero to offer in terms of status or material reward, and I’ve done fine with women. My guy friends who’ve had more conventional careers and paired off with women have all found partners with comparable jobs, education and earning potential to themselves. Money and stability obviously matter when choosing a partner, but from what I’ve seen that usually takes the form of people seeking partners who want roughly similar things and have shared goals, not women trying to scam a meal ticket. Honestly I think trying to tart yourself up as a “high status male” might be what’s getting you these bad results. You’re advertising yourself as a free meal ticket, so you’re only going to attract women who are looking for that.
>>43027571The porn industry heavily caters to men. Pretty much all the production is male. Women are just the porn stars. It's no surprise that the porn that women enjoy is more scarce.>>43027879Dude are you kidding, men have always talked about women being evil and immoral and female biology making women inferior. There have generally only been a few very rare exceptions .
>>43026587Straight men also say this about women. Only homosexuals truly find anyone attractive
>>43027940To elaborate: if your approach to dating is to larp as a wallet with a dick, don’t be surprised by the kind of women you attract, or what happens when they see the real you.
>>43027940like i said,women enjoy being fucked and they enjoy their narratives. they can certainly enjoy the narratove of being fucked by a penniless chad - looks and status are inseparable after all. but you dont need to tell me about relationships in an attempt to disprove me: women end up in relationships with guys they feel no sexual attraction towards all the time. >>43028010so ask yourself, why is there no porn industry for women? we live in a capitalist culture. if there was a market for it then porn for women would spring up overnight. but the only porn women really like is self centered erotica.
>>43028030to clarify, i didnt larp as a "wallet" with a dick. i didnt pay anything for the fwb nor the one night stands. i larped as a "high status guy" because i was in a high status college path, which is what the women got off to.
>>43028075>I larped as a “high status guy”Right which iF yOu WaLk tHe LoGic tO iTs ConcLusion is a wallet with a dick. You’re going to be judged by those terms as long as that’s what you’re advertising to prospective partners. If you want to meet a woman who likes you for whoever you are, you need to be open about yourself much earlier on.
>>43028056Because the market is not a perfect, instantaneous and rational force, and even if it were, there would be less will to cater to women by virtue of women being less well off. How much the market caters to women in minorities is a function of how much representation they have in it. Either it doesn't occur to mem or they're actively against it.IIRC Hugh Hefner even said he wanted men to get revenge through porn on the women who wronged them and rejected them; does that sound like a rational market figure who would cater to women's sexual wants or a misogynist?I could ask you why the porn industry seems to mostly consist of violence and rape on tape to cater to men who are enslaved to their libido. Is that also reflective of men's true nature? I think it's in either case just an unfortunate circumstance.>>43028010Also the 1500s were like peak European institutionalized misogyny desu
IMO men's appearance is important but not just in isolation, it's more about how it fits into a broader vibe the guy gives offI think male attraction to women also involves this broader vibe but I think men compartmentalise the parts of their attraction much more readily
>>43028151this is why i mostly dont bother to replying to "ur just a virgin who doesnt talk to women" posts. i can share my experience but it can always be discarded easily so its pretty pointless to divulge personal details. but for the sake of the argument: fine, ive simply never ever met acrually androphilic women because they cam read my mind and only meta-attracted womem have for some reason found me. why cant porm industries find these androphilic men? surely there is a market worth billions, entirely untapped by these silly capitalists who just chise to ignore womens lucrative thirst for male bodies.
>>43028205> why cant porm industries find these androphilic men?Gay porn is a big niche though?
>>43026587>>43026610>>43026613
>>43028205Talking to you feels similarly useless. It’s like trying to convince someone who tied a bandana over their eyes they’re not actually blind. Honestly it bums me out you’re so insistent that a woman could only ever care for you based on what you could give her or how you make her feel about herself. I hope you manage to stumble into a relationship with someone who actually loves you for who you are, despite how much you’re sabotaging the chances of that happening.
>>43028229typo, i meant women. >>43028166if you were talking about something qith a massive barrier of entry like computer chips, you might have a point, but dude, its porn: all you need is a camera. anyone can make an onlyfans right now. that nobody has managed to make porn that appeals to women speaks for itself. >blahblahblah men are le bad and rapists etccool, but thats neither here nor there.
>>43028256it's men who are trying to date and women who don't feel attracted
>>43028343its a shame you feel frustrated, but you just havent managed to make a convincing argument. insisting porn for women doesnt exist because the misogynist is keeping them down just doesnt make me change my mind. there is endless homosexual porn even though gay men can still get hatecrimed for existing in 2026.
>>43028171exactly! THANK YOU. mens appearance matters, but like you say, its just a part of the narrative, not desirable for itself like mens bodies are to gay men or womens bodies are to straight men.
>>43028408I’m not the anon debating market forces behind what porn does or doesn’t exist, that’s someone else. I’m saying women do feel attraction for men beyond the man’s ability to affirm their sense of femininity, or their perception of a man as a provider. You seem determined not to believe this fundamental idea because of porn and your own dating history.It’s like you’ve convinced yourself women are a separate species incapable of providing meaningful companionship to men. That’s an incredibly sad outlook for a man looking for love from a woman to have.
>>43028521>I’m saying women do feel attraction for men beyond the man’s ability to affirm their sense of femininity, or their perception of a man as a provider.Im sorry if you find that offensive but thats the only conclusion i cam reach. There is just such a huge vacuum of evidence for womens actual androphilia towards men, while for example gay mens attraction to men is patently obvious and undeniable. I>it’s like you’ve convinced yourself women are a separate speciessame species, different mode of arousal. probably due to lacking T as ive pointed out earlier in this thread. >providing meaningful companionship to men.that isnt what i said, though. i believe women CAN love men platonically and as such, provide meaningful companionship. they only lack eros.
>>43028378>blahblahblah men are le bad and rapists etcThe point is that men are not inherently le bad but alright dude whatever thought terminatint cliches help
>>43028572>Im sorry if you find that offensive but thats the only conclusion i cam reachIt’s not that I find it offensive, it’s that it’s regularly contradicted by my own experiences.I’m glad to hear you don’t think the gulf between men and women is unbridgeable anyway. I think your conception of how large that gulf actually is has gotten needlessly inflated, and will likely be a source of pain and frustration for you. I think it will also shrink the pool of women who are willing to date you, because it’s such an asinine way to think. But I’m glad you don’t think it’s an impossible distance to close. I hope you meet someone who loves you for who you are, and while she’s admiring your tight ass or your graceful hands or whatever, you can keep insisting to yourself she has no direct desire erotic for you.
>>43028166>there would be less will to cater to women by virtue of women being less well offthis isnt really true atp aside from like the 0.1%
>>43026661sounds like you're still falling for the fuckbois
>>43026587lesbians are actually like "uhhh i hate men so much men r so ugly men r so repulsive i hate men so much I hate ugly evil men I hate all men other than the one I write omegaverse fanfics abt
>>43032031nah thats just cope. out and open lesbians are actually a lot nicer and less hateful towards men because they dont feel the same resentment as "straight" women do, who feel exhausted from feeling like they are forced to pretend to like men.
>>43026661>I'm not attracted to how you LOOK.ie, youre not attracted to men. should have just ended the post there. straight men are very much attracted to how women look and gay men are very much attracted to how men look. even lesbian women are attracted to how women look, even though their desire isnt as strong as mens due to lacking T. It is only, ONLY "straight" women who say shit like you do and it is incredibly telling.
>>43026661tldr: a man needs to do everything and i want to snug into a compartment of his busy day rather than give him a moment of peace. got it.
>>43033748Not the person you're arguing with, but i think you are really underestimating the extent to which vibes and non-looks based interpersonal chemistry affect queer women's attractions to any gender.Speaking for myself as a bisexual mtf, looks definitely play a part in my attractions to all genders, but vibes/chemistry/personality whatever you want to call it also plays a big role, moreso that it seems to for most men, regardless of sexual orientation.
>>43026661>guys don't seem to get how their sexuality worksno actually we do, when we cum our brains reset back go logic mode and want to go asleep not be cuddle raped for 5 hours
>>43028010>>43028166>t. Did not read any 16th century literature about women
>>43037252why would they waste their precious chance to write something down just to talk about women
>>43034208>Speaking for myself as a bisexual mtf, looks definitely play a part in my attractions to all genders, but vibes/chemistry/personality whatever you want to call it also plays a big role, moreso that it seems to for most men, regardless of sexual orientation.youre really just affirming what i say: women arent sexually attracted to men at all and the men are only "attractive" as a part of an autosexual narrative.
>>43026587The gay man side is all wrong lol we'll quickly dress down someone's whole appearance, especially if it's another man. It's very easy to not meet the 'beauty standard' here.
>>43027645>the difference is that as far as i can see, those are the ONLY modes of attraction women really respond toWomen love lesbian porn and thats not really "autosexual", its just gynephilic.Men are just mad that because women HAD to marry a man in the past to survive in this world, lesbian genes have become the mainstream for women. Its mens own fault that most women are gynephilic these days. You stoned and murdered all the androphilic women for being "sluts" and "whores"You reap what you sow, and I, personally am very happy about thisMen are too stupid to see this and still shame all exclusively androphilic women for showing that attraction.
>>43026587If men wanted to see women being androphilic, they would stop all slut shaming. You cannot eat your cake and have it too. Either you like it that women express their attraction towards men, or you don't. Slutshame is psyopping females into lesbianis as girls don't play those stupid games
>>43038241>>43038257>le slutshaming gay men were killed for being out yet they still lust after men openly. women have the anonymous internet to use to broadcast how much they truly like men but in actuality they do the exact opposite. somehow the "slut shaming" never stopped women from writing agp coded dark romance fantasies either, it ONLY stops them from voicing that they like male bodies. im not sure what kind of person you would need to be to actually drink this kool-aid.
>>43038368>yet they still lust after men openlyNta but they did not... They met at secretive speakeasies and a few big cities in private invite-only lobbies like house parties. You could cruise, but it had to be in a location that allowed for some level of anonymous element like a theater.
>>43037835>youre really just affirming what i say: women arent sexually attracted to men at all and the men are only "attractive" as a part of an autosexual narrative.I just bumped into this thread but my experience lines up with that as well. Though I think age might play a factor, I remember in middle school or so when people started having relationships, girls seemed to crush on guys that they found genuinely attractive for their looks even when knowing nothing about them or their social status. Maybe it has to do with hormones, or less exposure to boys at that point, idk. If we want to use evo psych guesswork, men are attracted to women's bodies as a breeding tool where psychology doesnt really matter, whereas women are attracted to men as a social tool where his continued protection and status is much more important. So the psychological and social narrative is more important for women. To a man, a naked woman IS the goal. Whereas to a woman, a naked man is phallic in nature but not really much more. Ultimately though, I don't think you're going to have women really admit that outside of intra-female discussions, even though it's honestly not even a malicious thing. Women don't like bluntly explaining to men the mechanics of their attraction, for reasons outside the scope of this conversation.
I often wonder if we're all so brain broken by advertising and media that we can't really connect, we're taught to just be consumers, and once we have that hole full we don't care until we get perspective. And we all sound like >>43026649 until then. Which we rarely get till the other side of 30, but then we over correct and get disappointed and bitter. The people that make it work are the ones that stick to the illusion and only admit unhappiness in the shadows of their life, but they have ticked their checklist of life goals so they assume they shouldn't be unhappy and just continue on. I would love to date a woman like >>43026661 but finding them is pretty difficult because everyone is so in defense mode these days. Plus i still make the common mistake that the simplest way to for a connection these days is sex, (plus i physically crave it) that accounting for that plus getting to know each other when we're already jaded is impossible. I'll find someone eventually, or I'll give up and just enjoy the space I've made.
>>43038577>Ultimately though, I don't think you're going to have women really admit that outside of intra-female discussions, even though it's honestly not even a malicious thing. Women don't like bluntly explaining to men the mechanics of their attraction, for reasons outside the scope of this conversation.The funniest part is that they actually reaxt extremely negatively to a guy who just listens to what they say and repeats it. Go to any female centric community anywhere on the internet and its full of women saying how ugly men are and how women are a million times better looking, how they will see a good looking guy once a decade but pretty women every day. guys see that and figure "women arent really into men", then make memes like OP: suddenly women react like they were grievously offended. I imagine its because women, on some level, realise that selling men the false fantasy that they are actually desirable to them is useful, and they dont want to let go of that power. but as you say, its outside the scope of this thread.
>>43037835Not quite. I think physical attraction does play a role for women but it is not the only factor. Also for me, and many of the other women I know who are bi/pan, the same applies to attraction to all genders, not just men. For me, personally, I'm much more attracted to men than I was pre-transition, and I am definitely physically attracted to men, but it's the combination of physical attraction plus interpersonal chemistry that makes me go really weak at the knees for someone.
>>43038791>Not quite. I think physical attraction does play a role for women but it is not the only factor. Also for me, and many of the other women I know who are bi/pan, the same applies to attraction to all genders, not just men.No matter how much this is repeated, it just won't start making sense. If you are not attracted to men without a narrative, you are not attracted to men, but instead you are attracted to the nareative and whatever function you allow men to play in it. It is completely autosexual and devoid of actual desire. I like using my hand to jack off too but that doesn't mean I am sexually attracted to it.
>>43038368>yet they still lust after men openlyThey did not. Fool
