Most AGPs are probably low-dysphoric and would be best served by DHT blockers, low-dose estrogen and no social transition.The suppression of AGP as a concept is leading to unnecessary pain and dysphoria for many men.
>>43080373I am low-dysphoric but I still want big naturalsWhy do you want to twinkify us
>>43080422I didn't say all low-dysphoric AGPs would be best served by that regimen, but most.
>>43080373What is the point of low dose estrogen? What would that achieve?t. medium dysphoric AGP
>>43080528Feminization subtle enough to not undermine one's male gender identity, and to not be obvious enough that you have to make a fuss to others about what you're doing.
>>43080373Most non-dysphoric AGPs probably just wouldn't hang out here because this is mainly a hangout spot for tranners.>t. non-dysphoric AGP
>>43080539I doubt most of us could be satisfied with that. It's like wanting to have sex with women and being satisfied with just being kissed.
>>43080539>gender identityim being enveloped in a sick green glow gtfo fed
>>43080574Maybe, still there clearly is a number of people who would be.>>43080576What's wrong with the concept of gender identity?
>>43080586I found "all or nothing" approach, while painful at times, serves me well. If I can't have it all, I'll try to make do with nothing.
>>43080586'gender identity' only exists to paint transsexualism as a mental illness instead of an intersex disorder
>>43080599How can you prove it's intersex disorder?
>>43080560I thought I was non-dysphoric AGP and I transitioned because I wanted to self-actualize into one day doing yuri shit in real life and it was torturous to me that I could never play a role in my own fantasiesThis, of course, extends to having relationships with women (Straight chicks want heterosexual men, not lesbian women, and I cannot give them that) and just liking how I view myself rather than not giving a shit and mostly preferring to disassociate my identity from my bodyI think a lot of you guys are unfathomably insecure, probably from the trans hate on 4chan, and want to avoid this part of yourself. I am proud of who I am and I encourage all of you to be proud of yourselves, too.> why are you herebecause I started using 4chan when I was 13 years old and I am now 25
>>43080602The case of David ReimerYou can construct a person who experiences all of the pain a transgender person does by forcibly transitioning peopleYou should not do this, of courseBut the fact we are able to lead happy lives - and prefer to - as the opposite sex we were assigned at birth suggests that actually we are probably biologically distinct from cis people psychologically
>>43080595I think that for many AGPs, gender dysphoria is more about twinkdeath than anything else.DHT blockers and good skincare can prevent most of that.If you don't have social dysphoria, does it really matter that the world sees you as a man? As long as you can exercise the female gender identity sometimes, you might just be satisfied with crossdressing.
>>43080422NTA but twinks are hot
>>43080373Or you could just let people live their fucking lives like you want everyone else to let you live yours. Hypocrite.
>>43080602ask any female at the age of menopause how she feels. she'll tell you she feels worse, because females need estrogen to function (no shit).now ask anytranny (female) how *she* felt before and after taking estrogen. if she's trutrans she'll say she felt a clearer mental clarityalso this study- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/although there are little real studies in circulation bc modern science literally only exists for capital and privatization is the demiurge
>>43080604I don't see anything to be proud about myself. I have sexuality that is at best obscure to others, at worst revolting.>>43080610Sure, that can be cause for some. But I don't see trans people arguing for medical gatekeeping in this direction?>>43080617I don't know about twinkdeath. I never cared how I look as a man. It's irrelevant to me, the best what I could achieve would still not be as rewarding.
>>43080610https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7477289/check this out, a study showing the biological distinction'oh, its so small in scope, and that's literally the only study ever on this specific topic' that's all you're getting www (don't even THINK about non binary transsexualism either- modern science is a shill! they don't care about us!)
>>43080631I have never doubted that people feel better after fulfilling their desires, I am just skeptical about the "natural" causes of those desires because of my experience.
>>43080644One study showing that our brains are distinct and a billion showing that erm women and men are EXACTLY the same (go woke! go equality! go feminism!) so you're sexist for thinking you can be a woman trapped in a man's body. we should detransition you for being so sexist.I hate Woke 1.0. Woke 1.0 was horrible for trans people. I detest the Genderbread Persxn.>>43080636You should be proud that you are a brave person, who chose to subject themself to intense pain to be who they were inside.Be proud that you hold a unique perspective, otherwise inaccessible, that gives you a view on society most people never possess.Be proud that you are anatomically unique in many ways! If you are a woman, you will never experience menopause, you will never suffer periods, and if a lesbian, you have so many more options open to you than your cis counterparts. If a man, be proud that you will never be the kind of toxic male so many are raised to be, and that you will generally look better than them.Be proud that by dint of your mere continued survival you are a revolutionary.
>>43080666if you're a cissoid, do a service- genuinely -and find a tranner of the opposite sex from you, buy a vial of diy, and force transition yourself to see what comes out of it for like a month, posting your results (donate the vial afterwards to beforementioned troon)
>>43080666While it ought to be said that such accusations are untrue and unfounded - that every last one of us was like this from birth even if we don't know it - I don't really see why it matters whether we got our gender identities "naturally" or "artificially". We are synthetic people. Why would it bother us whether parts of us are natural or unnatural? God was not kind enough to give us the bodies we were meant to have, but He gives His strongest soldiers his hardest tests.>>43080686Before criticizing a woman, walk a mile in her shoes.
>>43080695>Before criticizing a woman, walk a mile in her shoes.vaguenvke
>>43080678Oh, the pain I mention is the conflict, the yearning, the hiding, the repression, the self rejection, the loneliness and more. Should have been clear about that.>>43080686I am AGP.>>43080695It matters to how others perceive you.
im agp + gamp but yeah kinda agreedluckily i've got babyface genetics/phenotypeim a bit bored of agp too, GAMP seems stronger these daysnot much dysphoria at allonce you figure out the autism-schizoid-persona complex you're pretty set
>>43080746You are not "AGP", cis women are also AGP, you experience this because YOU ARE A WOMAN and you need to understand that you cannot possibly live a happy life as a manAnyway, the people around you don't know your history. Let them speculate. They are ignorant assholes. The matter of causes for your identity is entirely between you and yourself.I know it hurts, but you should be proud of surviving. Stop being a coward. Would you rather die a woman or die never knowing what your life might have been like? There is obviously no pride in repressing!>>43080755Disappointingly I experience basically zero GAMP at all, so I am probably gonna need to get bottom surgery at some point
>>43080604I'm not insecure about it. I look hot in lingerie, I've dressed up for parties, and I've hooked up with men and women while dressed up (and while not of course, AGP isn't my only kink). I don't hate tranners or think they're bad. I don't really post much about it here because it's clear my experiences are distinct from other users'.
>>43080811I don't have a choice to be a woman, though. I have a chocue between trans woman with likely disaster results or continue repressing this desire with slightly less disaster results.
>>43080373holy trvke
>>43080855"AGP" is not a kink at all. It is literally just a part of the experience of being a woman. Please, you are only hurting yourself by using this framework.>>43080904You don't have a choice because you *are* a woman. Your choice are whether you're going to live as the person you are, or die as a person you aren't. There are many options between social transition and total repression. Remember that the longer you repress, the worse your life will be, and these feelings will never go away, ever.You do not know how you will look as a woman unless you try. And there are plenty of chopped cis women, anyway.
Reminder, almost all cis women are aroused by the thought of themselves being feminine and sexy. AGP isn't real, it's just a normal female sexuality. If you think you have AGP, that's actually a very strong sign that you really are trans
>>43080955>There are many options between social transition and total repression.I don't see it. Either I want to transition, so I'll take steps towards it or I repress.
>>43080373Literally even Blanchard himself recognized that most of the trans women he categorized as AGP benefited immensely from social and medical transition and that giving them the gender affirming care they needed tended to eventually lead to a large reduction in fetishistic AGP behavior eventually.
>>43080991One example would be HRTrepping - that is what boymoders are doing. They take HRT while continuing to present as male. You have nothing to lose. You can stop at any time. If you really won't ever pass, you can at least enjoy the benefits of transition in private and people will just think you're gay or something which is fine these days because all of the hate is being absorbed by tranniesYou can even continue to deeprep on HRT by insisting that you're just doing it for the chemical benefits or some shit, which is trueIn other words, you absolutely do not need to socially transition if the concept of doing this frightens you
>>43080955>"AGP" is not a kink at all. It is literally just a part of the experience of being a woman. Please, you are only hurting yourself by using this framework.*shrug* OK well I have an AGP kink lolLike I said, I don't bring it up here much because my experience is much different from others' here.
>>43081006Can you explain what makes you say that, or how it works for you?Myself, I am a lesbian trans woman and I do not get "aroused" by being a woman per se, but I enjoy the thought of performing female sexual roles and "my type" is a kind of person I seek to become
>>43081005bro why the fuck are you trying to tell people not to transition just because they like women?? Can you fuck off. These people have dysphoria.
>>43081005I am aware of that, but never understood it. Maybe I am too autistic about it. But if you want to live as a man, then it is not beneficial to feminize your body, it's comoletely opposite of that goal. I'd only do that if I couldn't live as man at all, which is luckily not the case.
>>43081016I... am a transbian myself. I don't know what you mean by this.>>43081029Because there is a binary to it. You seem like you would be happier as, if you feel like you cannot be a woman, a feminine man. We transition for ourselves; society will hate you, no matter what, because even living as a man, you will never *be* a real man.
>>43081029The point of "boymoding" is to allow you to figure out and progress your transition before you come out. Letting hormones do their work, helping them along with some diet and exercise changes, figuring out skin and hair care, figuring out how you want to present when you do start presenting femme, etc. And for people in bad living situations, it allows you to change presentation based on the situation. You can be femme at home but boy at work, or vice versa if you still live with your parents, or whatever works for you at the moment.The anon who started this thread is a weirdo pervert who should be ignored.
>>43081011Like I literally get turned on by wearing lingerie or other outfits. I am turned on by myself in a literal sense and have jerked off to myself in the mirror (I'm also turned on by myself as a guy too, I would have an orgy with a bunch of clones of myself, dressed up or not).Part of the turnon is contrast with my partners, I like to get fucked by larger men while dressed up and that hits my AGP kink hard.When I dress up with women it's really part of the associated feminization process I guess, I don't view myself the same as my girlfriend. She also knows I like to get fucked by men and that's hot.
>>43081053>society will hate you, no matter whatWhich one gets most hate?> loser "invisible" man> feminine man> unpassing trans woman>>43081056Maybe it works for some, but I think this is double life would be insanely hard and stressful to keep up. It makes sense as some temporary solution, I guess. But still, you can't have a goal of staying a man when you start doing that. You must wish for a change.
>>43081071You are a bisexual woman who clearly has a lot going on mentally, and these are perfectly normal things to think and want. You like being a woman, you like having sex with men and women. Why would this be weird?>>43081090All of these people are hated, but frankly, feminine men probably the least. Women really dig twinks.Ultimately, this is a decision to make for yourself. Deal with how society treats you later. You have to live for yourself. That is not greedy or wrong.
>>43081121>You are a bisexual woman who clearly has a lot going on mentally, and these are perfectly normal things to think and want. You like being a woman, you like having sex with men and women. Why would this be weird?I'm a bisexual man who likes having sex with women and men, and I also like dressing up. I don't think it's weird and wouldn't care if it was lol.
>>43081121>You have to live for yourself. That is not greedy or wrong.I agree and I admire those who are brave like that. I guess I am coward and conformist. I was never the one to go against everyone else in pursuit of own goals. I am very insecure and paranoid of how other people see me.
>>43081056>The anon who started this thread is a weirdo pervert who should be ignored.): that's not very nice
>>43081135Look, it's your gender, you do what you want with it, but I'm just telling you, none of these desires are at all unusual for *women* to have. AGP is nonsense.>>43081157Many of us are like that. We are internet dwellers, and we exist here because we lack the confidence to exist elsewhere. Most people will not recognize a trans woman, especially if she is not socially transitioned, because they are morons. Eventually, they may think you're a trans man of sorts. It is not selfish to want to be who you are. Understand that this does not go away, and repressing now will only lead to losing more time, getting worse results from accumulated damage, and maybe dying before you got to really live.There is nothing worse than that.You think you can live like this, but you really can't. I thought the same thing.If you actually know you are dysphoric, and you are repressing out of fear, you have nothing to lose. I transitioned because I would rather live one day as a woman than die never knowing. I cannot imagine you feel differently.
>>43081090>Maybe it works for some, but I think this is double life would be insanely hard and stressful to keep up. It makes sense as some temporary solution, I guess. But still, you can't have a goal of staying a man when you start doing that. You must wish for a change.100% It's always a temporary solution.But some people need to believe that it can be done indefinitely to have the courage to start.
>>43081173>Look, it's your gender, you do what you want with it, but I'm just telling you, none of these desires are at all unusual for *women* to have. AGP is nonsense.I guess I don't see why my position would be changed by women having the same desires or not. I know women are into all sorts of shit too. I am turned on by dressing up in lingerie, thus AutoGynePhilia in a literal sense.
>>43081218Okay, sure. Fine. But you really need to understand that all that Blanchard shit is long-debunked pseudoscience that gets weaponized against trans women, including pre-transition, to convince them that their gender identity is actually just some sort of sick perversion, to stop us from reaching self-actualizationWhat I'm saying is that you should consider hormone therapy. I hope your gf is bisexual
>>43081173>If you actually know you are dysphoricI don't actually know. It's possible we are very same in what we want (except what we do about it) but we can also be very different. It's possible this is just some misplaced sexual desire for me - instead of being with a woman, I wish to be a woman. But thanks for sharing your perspective anyway.
>>43081238I don't care about blanchard at all. That's more of an obsession that 4chan tranners have than anything I have. I also have zero problems with being a pervert, I don't consider it to be a negative label. My gf is bisexual too but I'm entirely uninterested in transitioning into a woman.
>>43081256Again, yeah, I was in the exact same boat as you. I thought I "didn't experience dysphoria" and I could repress and be a straight man and I merely "wanted to be a woman" but ho hum we can't all have what we wantI am fairly convinced that low dysphoria tgirls are just *low testosterone*. So, that probably suggests you'd have better effects than most.>>43081264It's your gender, you do what you want, if you really are just a crossie then please get on HRT so you at least look less like a man in a dress, it reflects better on us, help the community yknow
>>43081384>It's your gender, you do what you want, if you really are just a crossie then please get on HRT so you at least look less like a man in a dress, it reflects better on us, help the community yknowNah, I won't go on HRT, that would fuck up my body in a way that I'd not enjoy lol. I look good in lingerie and look good as a man.
>>43081395Smoother skin and cuter curves, think about it. Multiple orgasms
>>43081410I already have a great shape and I'd rather not lose my strength and athleticism. Also I am multi-orgasmic already, have been since I was a teen.
>>43081384That's the question, my body definitely looks low T (low muscle mass, skinnyfat) but I am also horny so often it's annoying. I wish hormone levels could be easily tested at home like sugar or something.
>>43080373people should do whatever they feel comfortable with and not define themselves by what box/category they fit into, agp as a concept suppresses the self like male/fembrained shit does, women don't overthink feeling sexy for their man>>43080599i dont like it since it implies it's elective and socially driven, which kinda fits with the rhetoric Money et. al were pushingoldschool doctors always saw trans people as transvestites, delulu men/women they entertain, this is just evolution of that language imo>>43080631people in menopause feel bad because they have too little sex hormone, not because they have no E specificallyyou could give them T and they'd feel 'better' (tho not really cuz it'd induce dysphoria)
>>43081430Ah, that's pretty cool.You could be naturally intersex, then.>>43081438Hey, I was the same way. It's been a lot harder to get off now. What you can do is order a blood test via a telehealth doctor, the results go to your email inbox. It's easy work for them
>>43081509Would you drop yor discord so we could talk later?
>>43081479I think "Gender Identity" is a valid enough framing, but to suggest that one "Identifies as" their gender is despicable. No cis person "identifies as" their gender assigned at birth. It is purely a means of othering us and delegitimizing our identities. I prefer the concept, seemingly vilified mainly by theyfabs, that transgender people are a type of intersex person whose brain's sexual development does not match that of their body
>>43081526Just go to doves.au (yes I bought a custom domain and set the DNS to a Discord invite) and add the guy at the top of the list
>>43081509>You could be naturally intersex, then.Probably not but who knows? I literally didn't realize other men couldn't have multiple orgasms until I was like 16 and other guys were like "wtf are you talking about?" when I told them I'd jerk off 4-8 times before going to sleep lol.And even before I started exercising and was still super skinny, my butt was always round and plump.
>>43081560Huh. Wild genetic pull, feels like you must be living the dream.
>>43081577Yeah I'd say my only real sexual handicap is the autism lol (although it doesn't interfere with guys cuz they are more direct)
>>43081530honestly i have a conspiracy that the whole 'identify as' and 'pronouns' corpo grift was done on purpose to undermine our legitimacy initially, they're mask off now but they did a great job atomizing and disarming any sense of direction or purpose the trans civil rights movement had
>>43080373AGPs shouldn't do anything, they should get therapy and get fixed instead of ruining the image of trans people permanently and causing us to lose our rights
>>43081883You can't change your sexual orientation.
>>43080373Meh I probably could have been fine just as a femboy . But I didn't want to risk ending up with a masc face like my dad's so full T blocking in highschool was a must.I mostly MtF trooned because that was the easiest way to get HRT quickly as a minor in 2016. I do like being Yuri core desu even tho like my internal self image seems to flip flop between girl and a femboy lol.
>>43080373I think gender dysphoria can be preventable if more men took fin/duta and if social norms allowed for a more androgynous/bishounen type of male beauty standard.
>>43083563That still wouldn't solve other issues one might have with being a man.
>>43083573No, but I do in part blame the Great Male Renunciation for exacerbating the problem of gender dysphoria.If male and female beauty standards were more similar, people could adopt a more feminine appearance without needing to recontextualize their entire social lives.
>>43083593What if it's social or sexual more than physical apprarance?
>>43080617>As long as you can exercise the female gender identity sometimes, you might just be satisfied with crossdressingI can't express the female gender crossdressing alone in my apartment. That does cause social dysphoria. At the same time I'm too self conscious to be seen as a troon.
>>43083646Then they would benefit from the same situation being the case for male and female behavioral and sexual norms.>>43083801Maybe you could meet up with other AGPs.
>>43084159Such utopia will not happen. Female privilege will stay.
