I think the problem with the concept of agp is that we are currently viewing it as exclusively about sexuality and exclusively through a patriarchal lens. If you think about the general explanation of male and female sexuality, it's that men are attracted to women very visually as observers; they look at the female body stripped of context, and women are attracted to the relationship and dynamic between themselves and their object of desire. This is why women are more likely to enjoy written erotic media rather than visual. I believe this to be generally true, but both people of both sexes obviously can operate in either mode. Some people just have a stronger preference for one of these modes, and your preferred mode generally corresponds with your sex. > Why does this matter?I think the big issue we run into when discussing AGP is that (a). This is not primarily about sexual attraction; it's actually about how a person processes information in general and (b). it assumes the male perspective by default, which causes people to cast negative moral judgment onto people who are "agp". Women are more likely to think about the relationship between themselves and the world; men are more likely to observe aspects of the world in isolation striped of context. Neither mode is better; everyone needs to use both to function. This is a difference in the primary way people choose to observe things. Women tend to put themselves in pictures of things not because they are vain and self-centered, but because you can't view your relationship to something without also including yourself. We judge AGPs cause through a male lense of pure observation, they are making themselves the object of desire, but in reality, they are attracted to the relationship between things. I think the biggest issue with Blanchard's theories is that they made it specifically about sexuality, which it is not , and they framed AGP as attraction to oneself, which it is not.
too long didn't read
>>43155718are there any researchers of trannies that aren't men or bigots?like why the fuck did I heard only of those types that do any psychiatric research
>>43155983i kinda like vitale's typology a lot tbhon. its definitely not perfect (esspecialy when it comes to trans men) but i think she better understood the thing that blanchard was seeing.>https://avitale.com/essays/a-developmental-reviewlink if you're interested
>>43155718I've been always saying that cis women are mostly agp. And yes, you are right, agp is not just sexual. Agp is literally "fembrained". Agp males are fembrained(at least partially)
>>43156188>fembrainedWhy are we often malebrained outside sexuality?
>>43156274nta but I imagine the worst agps (like myself) are basically malebrained except the self-identification/sexuality part didn't masculinize properly so they still get dysphoric about being male even if there's not much feminine about them
>>43156310Yes, this is what I am referring to. We are stuck in between.
>>43156320guess im lucky that i don't look that bad and pass well enough for the most part even if i'm not mentally particularly feminine
>>43156408I am jealous. My masculine traits force me to repress.
agp isn't real
>>43156450Why am I aroused if I imagine being a woman?
>>43156274How fembrained is AGP sexuality exactly? It gives me pleasure to imagine myself looking very feminine, but the moment someone suggests "you're a girl and a guy fucks you" fantasies my brain instantly nopes out, it's just not me at allI guess it's more of an AGAMP thing?
>>43156464because you're a degenerate freak but that doesn't make it a thingif you're aroused by the idea of fishing that doesn't make autopescephilia a thing eitheryou're just slapping a label onto random behaviours as if it uplifts them to some kind of legitimacy that gives us new information about how people arepeople do weird stuff for complex currently unascertainable reasons we don't need and can't with our limited understanding of the brain create any kind of model that incorporates "agp" into understanding general human sexuality or other behaviours this is all just pseud bullshit and borderline conspiratorial woo
>>43156468>you're a girl and a guy fucks youI consider myself AGP and this is my favourite fantasy.>>43156512I think it's common enough it deserves a name.
>>43156568you can name anything I think you missed my point, this is some vague ill defined thing you can read anything into and out of and there's no reason to associate what you think it is with what somebody else thinks it is, to gather these disparate meanings and place them under the same banner is to make something out of nothing
>>43156568>>43156512>>43156468>>43156450it appears no one actually read the post lol
>>43156589I did, you're just doing what I described>gather these disparate meanings and place them under the same banner you're not talking about the agp of blanchard, or the agp of the average slop brained tranner on here, or the agp of terfs, or the agp of the aesthete contrarian
>>43156568AGP is definitely an umbrella term when it groups many people with pretty different fantasies, the only common thing being imagining femininity on self
>>43156658Straight or gay are umbrella terms, too?
>>43156066honestly i think it's just repression and you see it in ftms too (some terfs and bullydykes and such)
>>43156066she looks like a gigahon, seriously are there any cisfs in this field
>>43156671To some extentYou can be gay into very feminine twinks or gay into super masculine baras, seems pretty different to me
>>43156658if a cis butch imagines themselves being a masculine and dominating a woman is that not agp then
>>43156690Is the core of her fantasy the woman she's fucking or the woman she's being?
>>43156689Yeah, but is it important difference?
>>43155718Autogynephilia is defined as a sexual fetish of heterosexual men. Women cannot have a male sexual fetish.
>>43156718so no tranny is actually agp, thanks anon
>>43156705For gays it probably doesn't matter that much, just be open about your preferences and thats itFor AGPs? I guess different forms of it can be a factor when it comes to deciding if you should transition or not
>>43156703how are you going to define what the core of a fantasy is
>>43156734The majority of Western trannies are AGP if I had to guess.
>>43156736Which forms can benefit from transition?
>>43156718you must admit that the person who coined the term and began using it defined it as a subtype of transsexualism(personally I think there's a lot to say for the notion that it was defined in an above-board manner and intended to be used in an below-board manner that could not be criticized)
>>43156762Idk how this matters. AGP seems like the more dysfunctional type of trans mtf, as it consists of men who are most likely autistic and expressing gender nonconformity as a symptom of autism.
>>43156789>who are most likely autistic and expressing gender nonconformity as a symptom of autismCan confirm.
>>43156789as i said above i think it's probably just reppersremember blanchard's answer to "well they're older but all say they knew at a younger age" was that they were lying and therefore couldn't be hsts since the age division was a central part of his theory
>>43156675she is cis as far as i am aware
>>43156718Iif you define it like that, sure. But agp is basically a male having woman's sexuality. And I like men lol, kinda fun idea tho that I'm such a giga straight dude that I prefer dating men
>>43156841AGP being a sexual fetish in the first place would require a male to experience puberty before he learns he has it. AGP trans women develop a desire to transition later in life because it's only a fetish. The trannies on this board typically complain about not transitioning early enough to ward off masculinization of features, but that's due to them being AGP.
>>43156862>basically a male having woman's sexualityWhile there can be some overlap, it's really different.
>>43156874Is it? I honestly don't see it that different a lof of the time
>>43156984I don't think women are that sexually excited about their clothes, for example.
>>43156999Wearing lingerie they definitely can be, and AGPs get over this too if you wear women's clothes every day.
>>43157032Okay, then about being a woman in general, it's not that exciting to them to be female.
>>43157041And neither it is for AGPs again if they reach a feminine body
>>43157049That's like saying a straight man stops caring about pussy the moment he orgasms in one.
>>43157071In that sense women are typically excited about being female then, it's not like they fantasize about sex as a man
>>43157041i still think about being a woman while i'm having sexual fantasies even though i am femalelike am i supposed to imagine i have a giant cock???
>>43156759I think if you have more "complete" AGP (as in you imagine yourself as a woman aesthetically, socially, in relationship role etc.) then it's probably a better indication of a potentially successful transition than only a partial ideation of womanhoodOf course there are many other factors to consider, it's just one thing
>>43157096They are excited about the sex, not being female. I get excited just from imagining being female.>>43157097Not the point.>>43157101I don't think so. I think what makes your transition succesful or not, is not your desire to be one, but your capability to be one (mind and body).
>>43155718I don't think AGP/HSTS discourse has any scientific rigor. In theory it can be used to trace the origins of transgenderism but nowadays neuroscience and genetics serve this end much better.It's not necessary to sniff out 'fake trans' either, the distinction between fetishist and dysphoric person is pretty obvious after talking to someone for 2 minutes.I think your point about the relational/interpersonal-social lens women use being unfairly classified as "AGP" is precisely correct. If you hang out with women with an open mind it's pretty obvious that's a huge part of how they process things. And I think doing so is a lot more helpful to socializing and integrating trans women than "old ass psychologist uses his male urge to systematize everything and create double standards against trans"
>>43157122you're not just imagining being a woman you're like all women women dolike if i just think about my pussy without sex it just makes me annoyed
>>43157122yeah if you haven't reached that level of being female, it's really not that exciting to think you have tits or a pussy if you have them
>>43156862IDK nona I don't think androphilia is requiredI'm a gynephile first, AGP second
>>43157155What do you mean?>>43157157That's possible, but to have them if you are not born with them you need to want them first. AGP makes me want them.
>>43157165I didn't say it's required necessarily>>43157172Yeah, obviously. But many flat women struggle with not having tits all the same, and a lot of the time it's their AGP that makes them want them. Breast implants aren't a massive business for nothing.
>>43157210Do you really think cis women are turned on from having bigger breasts after the surgery?
>>43157172you're probably not thinking about a pussy so you can figure out when your next period is or whether you have a yeast infection or whatever...you're thinking about getting fucked so naturally that's sexual. which women do too of course.but you don't actually have one so you don't have to worry about any.like 90% of the time i think about having a pussy it's when i'm in the bathroom and actively dealing with it but you don't do that at all so you're just left with the sexual fantasies
>>43157227Sorry for me being extra dumb today, but I am not sure what point are you making. To clarify, I can get hard about the idea of having pussy, just imagining seeing it between my legs, it does not have to be fucked.
>>43157247okay now think you are in the bathroom and you have discharge on your panties and need to think about what it meansdoes that arouse you?
>>43157265Yes. :(
>>43157271oh i wasn't expecting that idk what to think now
>>43155718>CIS WOMEN ARE AGPNigga, you is retarded.
>>43157278I am telling the truth. Being female, having a pussy, wearing panties, all of those are arousing to me. Maybe it would change or stopped if I transitioned, but right now it's just hot.
>>43157226Not necessarily turned on directly but essentially yes they feel better about their body and sex etc. in it if they like their boobs.>>43157271I do think it can be exciting because you're not on that level but if you had a pussy it's not like you would be perpetually turned on. Fantasies and turn-ons would just shift out of it, probably towards having sex with your pussy
>>43157311Well, I don't know for sure so I can't even disagree. It's possible it would become normal instead of extremely exciting.
>>43157333It's most likely, I mean I have been like you too lol
>>43157335What did you do about it?
>>43157343transition lol, I still am AGP all the same but instead of fantasizing about being female I fantasize about sex with men in my body lol
>>43157356Transition is scary and complicated, though.
>>43157378Yeah I'm not saying it's an easy choice or that you should do it but I don't think you're gonna cure/change what is your sexuality
>>43157297i feel like if you actually had one it would not be as arousing as all that
>>43157387I do hate having this sexuality. It makes me a freak alienated from all people I know. But transition would be trying to fulfill it.>>43157394I admitted that's possible.
>>43157413Yeah, for me it's definitely the only way to feel satisfied. Personally I got dysphoric in general too so I just thought fuck it and decided I'll try ordering estrogen online and see how I feel, never looked back
>>43157434Have you gotten good changes from estrogen?
>>43157413so do you have dysphoria and such too and wish you were a woman or is it just getting horny thinking about vaginas?
>>43157446Sure, decent I'd say. I look all right, tits could be bigger and stuff but I'm definitely happier and don't feel like shit when I look in the mirror or worry about that shit as much. Like it's not perfect but I would definitely not want to go back on testosterone
>>43157463I wish I were a woman, yeah. I don't know if that's dysphoria or just sexual desire or what it truly is. It doesn't make much sense to me.
>>43157485Seems like you're doing well. Not gonna lie, sometimes I wonder what it'd do to me. But at the same time I don't believe I could ever satisfy it.
>>43157491you should probably do something about that then...
>>43157512Just because I want it doesn't mean I can have it, you know. If a man wanted to date Sydney Sweeney, you wouldn't advise him to ask her out.
>>43157491>>43157505Yeah if that's a thing that bothers you a lot I do think you could honestly just give HRT a shot. Of course it depends on your personal situation but personally I just eased into it by thinking I'll just try for a bit and see how it feels instead of worrying or thinking I'll fully transition right away
>>43157553I don't doubt it would feel better. At the very least I'd also like not being horny so much as I am. It's the consequences of it that worry me.
>>43157583Yeah, of course I can't tell how much you have to lose in your life or how much it would impact things but you shouldn't live your life for other people either way.
>>43157603I mean, that's a good mindset as long as you can afford it. I am also very anxious about everything.
>>43155718i think i agree with you about the underlying reality, but at this point you may as well just drop the blanchard terminology because you mean something entirely different by it than he did.
>>43157634What is the difference from how Blanchard described AGP?
I consider myself AGP, I masturbated as soon as I hit puberty imagining myself a woman and was raised very separate from society (no TV, internet). I'm not a sex obsessed freak, in fact I'm borderline asexual. I definitely think of the crossdressing I did as a kid as a release for my trans feelings. My fantasies always involved pretty basic vanilla Male x Female relationships and dynamics. As a transitioned adult I almost don't masturbate ever and when I do its with written things or comics I always thought 'real porn' was really really gross. I don't think I fit Blanchards typology I think its rooted in a very male idea of sex with strict ideas of what attraction is. He projected male ideas of monkey testosterone desire on trans woman because he saw them masturbating, because he believed at the time women didn't have sex drives naturally which was the prevailing opinion at the time. Basically I think blanch is stupid but the idea of AGP I think its sound just not as a sexuality. Its a fetish, and a very common one among cis women. I am not "attracted to myself as a woman", I am "arroused playing the female role" which is 100% different and also considered very normal for women. But because blanch fundamentally saw twomen as disordered men he had to frame it as a weird disorder of sexuality instead of a deeper issue with sex identity.AGP basically says the things women do as women are normal but when men do it it's weird which is the most entry level retarded idea. Anyone with a brain can see the links between feminine sexual interests and twomen.So I use the term AGP because its useful despite being tainted by bad history.
>>43155718SoDespite what you saidThey're just vainand male brains need to goonI think "female" AGP is impossible. Their brains lack the goon. The male AGP is to be expected due to the goon and sometimes external goon targets become internal and that's AGP.buuuutI do not think these males are heterosexuals. I think internalizing sex target excludes you from being a true heterosexual and instead makes you autosexual, which IS very similar to how females work and create a, as you say, connection to the world and themselves.What looks like and is judged as vanity.
>>43157708As AGP I can agree with this. I am not truly heterosexual because I don't desire to penetrate females with my penis. I am autosexual, attracted to being female myself.
>>43157708My sex target is still the female, it just gives me extra joy to imagine myself have more femininity
>>43157789Right, but is the female yourself? It just sounds like you're paraphrasing. Sorry if I'm being obtuse
>>43157841No, it starts with the female partner, then femininity on myselfI can imagine myself on my own being feminine too to a degree, I guess my autosexuality is more of a cope born out of years of masturbation being my default and only sexual activityI can also fantasize about having female partners while still being masculine and that's fine, I never really imagined myself having a vagina either
>>43157884Are you using /tttt/ "female" or are you talking about females--as what this site has to overclarify as "cis woman"?
>>43157907Heavily leaning towards the latterI can sometimes imagine my partner as a futa or trans woman but I almost always default to a regular cis female
>>43157940Ah.I wonder if you want to use her body as a surrogate for your own. I'm very empathetic in sex so their pleasure becomes mine but I don't fantasize about the female experience I think the same way.I guess that's just the divide that allows me to be a man and not an AGP male.
>>43157972>if you want to use her body as a surrogate for your ownNTA but sure. That way I avoid performing a role of a man, which I am not comfortable with.
agp is obviously a real phenomenon altho its consequences for understanding transgenderism in agp males aren't clear. i am turned on by envisioning myself (and expressing myself actively when i have the chance) in a female sex role with biological women. but i also acting and presenting as a woman around women when the appeal is purely self-expressive, not sexual. however, the thought of being seen as a woman by a biological male is uncomfortable at best, even just socially, and repugnant at worst (as in imagining going woman mode during sex with a man, or even just having sex with a man, ugh retch). does this make me a transbian or a fetishist? my feminine gender euphoria isnt purely sexual, id love to be a woman. but only around women. put another penis haver in the room and id rather put my boy clothes back on and talk about sports desu.
>>43158036I kinda feel the same honestlyMaybe it's something about the expectations? I don't wanna signal to men that I might be interested in them, I don't want to waste their time
>>43158036AHE. You have autohomoeroticism.
