Does anyone else struggle w rly bad internalized misogyny?But like its only directed towards myself?? Because i see other women just as good or even better than menbut when it comes to myself i just can't help but feel so much shame around anything feminine and idk why like being weaker and having a softer voice just makes me feel inferior in a way, even though i know that doesn't actually make any sense?!and its not only just body stuff, like im litteraly to emberassed to share some of my hobbies because i feel like they are to feminineEven something litteraly as dumb as my sexuality makes me feel humiliated sometimes :( which has already caused some struggles in past relationships, bc i hate feeling like my body was made for a guys pleasure
>>43155867>But like its only directed towards myself?? Because i see other women just as good or even better than men Are you mtf? Do you still see yourself as a man? Or do reminance of your old socialization effect you at all?Because what you're saying sounds a lot more like misandry if it's something that only applies to yourself. You were screwed as a man, because feminine men are a no no. Most men are rapists. The only permissable men are the strong powerful 60s genre of men that boomers approve of, not because they're good but because they're hot and evil. Say that's what you internalized. Now you know you're a woman, and it's okay to hate men, but the feelings of being judged for not being the right kind of male remain. And it's even worse, now, because you can't help but see your feminimity like a degen faggot does where it's for the other man's domination, and you see men as either equal to or worse than women, so what does that say about your status in comparison to other women who don't feel this way? Ironically, your "fix" for this is trying to feel more like a woman. But that just makes you more contemptuous of men. And that contempt worsens and reinforces how you feel about your old male-socialized shame about being an effeminate man in comparison to the dominant "correct" men. Your solution for the feeling is then to feel more like a wpman. But this just makes you more misandrist and contemptuous of men. And that contempt.... ect ect ect...If I'm right, you get the worst of both genders and are still brainwashed enough to call it misogyny.
>>43156160im mtf ish, and i dont see myself as a man but i rly do wish i could see myself as a male. bc i kinda envy them in a way while ive never envied womenand i never rly got socialized as a guy sadly, but when i see men interact with eachother and the world around them i know i want that aswell. like when i took testorone last summer i pretended to be a guy online, and i loved being treated and seen as a maneven tho i kinda hate men at the same time, idk its all rly confusing and kinda conflicting
>>43156214>im mtf ish, and i dont see myself as a man but i rly do wish i could see myself as a male. bc i kinda envy them in a way while ive never envied women >You never envied women, but you say you see them as better than or equal to men?>i never rly got socialized as a guy sadly, but when i see men interact with eachother and the world around them i know i want that aswellYou were socialized as a guy if you transitioned later than 11 years old or so. I barely spent time with my father as a kid, yet people say I act just like him.>when i took testorone last summer i pretended to be a guy online, and i loved being treated and seen as a man So, you're ftm?>even tho i kinda hate men at the same time, idk its all rly confusing and kinda conflictingYou could just be a trans male afab. That's possible. It explains your so-called "internalized mysogyny" only being personal and internal and then you thinking that being a feminine male makes you an illegitimate male or a tool for such Chadly men you hate(because you're misandrist) but envy personally because you're still trans or just don't jive with the feminine way of being but still want to have a place in a gendered society.
>>43155867Idk that what you're feeling is misogyny. You're not a woman and your feelings of inadequacy around women are likely the result of that, not misogyny. Women are comfortable with being sexually attracted to men and bottoming is natural for them.
You're probably overthinking it, true hate doesn't feel the way you describe. Sometimes I feel a wave of hate overcome me, it just hurts usually.
>>43156338>You never envied women, but you say you see them as better than or equal to men?idk its complicated honestly, like i never had a "OMG i wish that was me" feeling towards women, but i do all the time over men>You were socialized as a guy if you transitioned later than 11 years old or so. I barely spent time with my father as a kid, yet people say I act just like him.i started passing as female at 12, and before that everyone kinda quistioned what sex i was >So, you're ftm? No like the i wanna be a guy thoughts won after i got some medical news, but i was also on it for health reasons >You could just be a trans male afab. That's possible. It explains your so-called "internalized mysogyny" only being personal and internal and then you thinking that being a feminine male makes you an illegitimate male or a tool for such Chadly men you hate(because you're misandrist) but envy personally because you're still trans or just don't jive with the feminine way of being but still want to have a place in a gendered society.im not a trans guy, and i dont think i could ctualy live as one bc when i was taking T and i saw my body change i felt the worst ive ever felt. and im still rly depressed over the fact my voice enterd the first stage of masculinization, even tho i hated my feminine voice before bc it felt "weak" and no1 ever took me serious bc of itlike if i could press a button, i wish to be reborn as a cis straight male just without feeling "dysphoric" over the features i envy yet idk for what reason get dysphric over
>>43156354I dont feel inedquite around women tho?? its only that i feel inferior around men desuand i hate that "bottoming" comes natural to me, i hate that i actualy like it in the moment. because outside of it i hate hate hate it like it litterly feels like my body is betraying me by wanting it
>>43156912>idk its complicated honestly, like i never had a "OMG i wish that was me" feeling towards women, but i do all the time over men Yes, because you're a cis male with gender reverse gender dysphoria from transitioning kek.>i started passing as female at 12, and before that everyone kinda quistioned what sex i was Yup, so this lines up with my "socialized as a failed male" narrative.>im not a trans guy, and i dont think i could ctualy live as one bc when i was taking T and i saw my body change i felt the worst ive ever felt.Tracks.>im still rly depressed over the fact my voice enterd the first stage of masculinizationTracks with it being misandry. If you're a man, then now you have to compete and fail against other men again because you're not "masculine" enough.>even tho i hated my feminine voice before bc it felt "weak" and no1 ever took me serious bc of it You see, if you weren't socialized male as a kid, you wouldn't have this insecurity of appearing "weak," and thus unworthy, that all men have.>like if i could press a button, i wish to be reborn as a cis straight male just without feeling "dysphoric" over the features i envy yet idk for what reason get dysphric overYou feel dysphoric when you envy msculine traits men have? What exactly are these features you envy? For me, as a chud, it's the height, dick size, lower pitch voice, money, status, fearlessness, cheekbones, and domineeringness. I just cope with my being the wrong kind of rapist*cough*, I mean man, by trying to escape reality via art and isolation. Sure, I do envy other rapists, men, just like you do, but I'd rather not, just like you'd rather not. Were it up to me, I'd have been born a Chad, too, because then I could "rape" and be "bad," and people would ask me for it, so it wouldn't really be rape.Had this hit me worse, I would have been exactly like you are. It's as if my soul is effeminate and knows it's my nature but is in a constant state of penis envy all the same.
>>43157255>Yes, because you're a cis male with gender reverse gender dysphoria from transitioning kek.but im envious of features i never had>Tracks with it being misandry. If you're a man, then now you have to compete and fail against other men again because you're not "masculine" enoughi wouldnt fail against other men tho? i know that if i took T i would make it, minus having had SRS>You feel dysphoric when you envy msculine traits men have? What exactly are these features you envy? For me, as a chud, it's the height, dick size, lower pitch voice, money, status, fearlessness, cheekbones, and domineeringness. I just cope with my being the wrong kind of rapist*cough*, I mean man, by trying to escape reality via art and isolation. Sure, I do envy other rapists, men, just like you do, but I'd rather not, just like you'd rather not. Were it up to me, I'd have been born a Chad, too, because then I could "rape" and be "bad," and people would ask me for it, so it wouldn't really be rape.i dont feel dysphric when i envy them, but this summer my voice enterd the first stage of vocal masculinization bc of the T and that made me dysphoric. but while i felt dysphoric over my own voice i still wished for a deeper and rougher voice.i envy their strentgh, their height, their peanor, the voice, their strong arms, their beard, their sexuality and how they can navigate this world knowing the are safe
>>43157364also i genuinly hate my female features, like knowing i have a slimy flesh hole just makes me wanna crawl up in a ball :(
>>43157364>but im envious of features i never had Right. So am I. I just have enough of them it's tolerate to stay cis.>i wouldnt fail against other men tho? i know that if i took T i would make it, minus having had SRS Bro. Are you being serious rn? You started your transition before 13. Unless your 14, You're never gonna be a "full" man, even if you're tall. The fact you don't even have a dick anymore is a death sentence for your reputation on its own if anyone finds out.>i dont feel dysphric when i envy them, but this summer my voice enterd the first stage of vocal masculinization bc of the T and that made me dysphoric.Alright, so the dysphoria thing compells you to be a woman. >but while i felt dysphoric over my own voice i still wished for a deeper and rougher voice.You mean you wish you had a deeper and rougher voice but without the dysphoria?>i envy their strentgh, their height, their peanor, the voice, their strong arms, their beard, their sexuality and how they can navigate this world knowing the are safeI do too, but the fact is that lots and lots of men aren't like that. The game is rigged.>>43157391>also i genuinly hate my female features, like knowing i have a slimy flesh hole just makes me wanna crawl up in a ball :(Right, but you don't hate them because they're female, so it's not mysogyny. You think females as a social class and gender are great. Hence why I think it's leftover misandry. You hate your feminine features because you're weren't supposed to have them when you were a kid. You were taught to envy men, and you still do, unlike most cis women.So, you probably actually are a woman, but you have this leftover shit from being raised otherwise for so long thinking that it was wrong to be feminine as a male.
>>43157720>Bro. Are you being serious rn? You started your transition before 13. Unless your 14, You're never gonna be a "full" man, even if you're tall. The fact you don't even have a dick anymore is a death sentence for your reputation on its own if anyone finds out.Im 23, but i never went trough female puberty either (bc of suspected estrogen sensitivity issues) and i responded really well to Testosterone so I can genuinely make it (picrel is pre n post T)>alright, so the dysphoria thing compells you to be a woman.Yes! Like if it wasn't for dysphoria I would've been 8 months on T now>You mean you wish you had a deeper and rougher voice but without the dysphoria?Yesss!! like i would love to have a strong deep voice that gets everyones attention and is like all gravely in the morning, aswell as strong veins arms. Like I would basically wanna be the type of guy im attracted to>Right, but you don't hate them because they're female, so it's not mysogyny. You think females as a social class and gender are great. Hence why I think it's leftover misandry. You hate your feminine features because you're weren't supposed to have them when you were a kid. You were taught to envy men, and you still do, unlike most cis women.So, you probably actually are a woman, but you have this leftover shit from being raised otherwise for so long thinking that it was wrong to be feminine as a male.I don't hate women at all, but neither do I think those things are great. Atleast for myself I hate being referred to as a woman I wasn't thought to envy men, but I was thought to be ashamed of my female features and that I should hide them as much as possible. Atleast by my family, the rest was kinda mixed based of what sex they assumed i was
>>43157927>Im 23, but i never went trough female puberty. I responded really well to Testosterone so I can genuinely make it (picrel is pre n post T) All I see is 4 pictures of the same attractive woman? If that's you, and not just a template person, sorry. >So, you probably actually are a woman,I don't have gender dysphoria, though. And I don't understand what gender really even is. And even if I did, and I had to become a "woman" to be happy, I don't want to dissapoint my dad and family. It also would hurt my male ego(what I figure you're feeling) which I'm growing resentful of(idc if I woke up a woman tomorrow.) And my regular ego which doesn't want to fuck up everything and built my life around something as dumb as gender. Think Kasuma from Konosuba. He's mostly sensible. And even if it was ethical, I look like a short male from puberty. I would need so much surgury to pass. I have very wide shoulders. I'm a garbage can with legs. It's just not the hand I was dealt.>but you have this leftover shit from being raised that it was wrong to be feminine as a male. I definitely have that. But, it's not entirely my fault. When I say something conservatives hate, they call me not a man. When I say something feminists hate, they call me not a man. I'm 26 and the conditioning to hate "unmanly" men hasn't stopped and I see it everywhere. The only way to "win" is to be a faggot, so, not a man. > Atleast for myself I hate being referred to as a woman I'm guessing because it makes you personally feel "weak" for some reason that's definitely not misandry for emasculated men?>I wasn't taught to envy menYou were. Every amab was. There's a long time that you learn about the world before you're 13.>was thought to be ashamed of my female features and that I should hide them as much as possible.Because you were never a masculine man. You're going to be envious of masculine men when you were shamed for being not masculine for so long.
>>43157927You know? Just forget the Kasuma thing. The important part is that Idc what gender I am and strive for gender equality and the fall of patriarchal restrictions on people via gender roles. All people.>Yesss!! like i would love to have a strong deep voice that gets everyones attention and is like all gravely in the morning, aswell as strong veins arms. Like I would basically wanna be the type of guy im attracted to But you also don't because if you were you'd be dysphoric? If you woke up the next day like that, you wouldn't feel any issues with it?
>>43158567Its me :/Also so sorry!"So, you probably actually are a woman" "And you have this leftover shit from being raised that it was wrong to be feminine as a male"Where you're quistions i just forgot to > them bc 4chsn is still a lil complicatedAnd i didn't get raised to envy men, my parents where already happy I mostly kept my mouth shut abt some things lol, like i was already self harming my genitalia at 7. The envy was only something that grew when I started to transition, and it got rly bad last summer n has been a constant thought sinceAnd idk if its that I hate being called female bc it makes me weel, but idk it feels like being caller something shamefull like a second rank citizen ykAnd i do still hate feminine men, men in general are whats wrong w the world
>>43158567And girl if your happier as a woman than transition, no1 got better from repping. And the fear of passing shouldn't hold you backYou're allowed to be yourself!! :)
>>43158707>>43158707> But you also don't because if you were you'd be dysphoric? If you woke up the next day like that, you wouldn't feel any issues with it?I honestly dk, part of what kept me on T was that maybe if I push Trough i would be okay w it. Bc maybe I was just scared of being visable transLike ideally I would just wanna be a cute masculine straight guy, who's not dysphoric over it
>>43158863>Its me :/ Bro, if it weren't for your emotions, you could basically win at life no problem. You're not ugly at all. You could have almost anyone.>"So, you probably actually are a woman" This is possibly true, but probably not. >"And you have this leftover shit from being raised that it was wrong to be feminine as a male" This is definitely true.>And i didn't get raised to envy men, my parents where already happy I mostly kept my mouth shut abt some things lol, like i was already self harming my genitalia at 7.It's not something your parents have to do to you. Toddlers learn early on the difference between man and women just from seeing people. Male social status shit work more like a cognetohazard you can't unsee. You were doing this shit at 7. That's 6 years before you even started.>The envy was only something that grew when I started to transition, and it got rly bad last summer n has been a constant thought since Have you considered that's maybe because you admitted defeat as a failure of a man? When I was 13 I was optomistic I would grow tall and have muscles and all this stupid shit. I would envy men too, if I was told I would be female for the rest of my life at that age.>it feels like being caller something shamefull like a second rank citizen yk Yes. I know. It's not like that for me at all. In fact, being called a man makes me feel that way. Strip the honor from the sacrifice and all you're left with is self-harm. Strip the sacrifice from the honor and what you're left with is a rapist. Strip both and you have a failure/faggot. >And i do still hate feminine men, men in general are whats wrong w the worldI knew it. >>43158880>no1 got better from repping. And the fear of passing shouldn't hold you back You mean the fear of not passing. If I passed, then it would be fine. I'm tired of being alone and feeling like a creep. Transitioning would just make me uncanny. I don't have gender dysphoria. It'd really suck if I did.
>>43158980>I honestly dk, part of what kept me on T was that maybe if I push Trough i would be okay w it. Bc maybe I was just scared of being visable trans >>Like ideally I would just wanna be a cute masculine straight guy, who's not dysphoric over itThis is you. You're miserable either way. Literally you just seem to envy what men have. It has nothing to do with who you are inside. Why you're not constantly smug with yourself already as you are is beyond me. And maybe I should be taking my own advice. But I can't figure it the fuck out either.
