>>43178352
I've been wondering this myself. I'm also looking to get into them but don't know a trustworthy EU source. The only one I'm considering currently is ghk-cu and maybe later epithalon when I'm mid to late thirties

deboonked

because peptides don't do shit for transitioning

>>43178394
I've heard of GHK-Cu, you only take it for like a month and it makes your hair skin and nails better. I could definitely use a boost on hair and nails. It feels kinda weird tho because I've always thought of copper as a poison.

Epithalon seems interesting, first I've heard of it.

Is there anything that's super-suitable for trans women do you think?

>>43178430
Which one?

>>43178352
glowing OP

>>43178442
That seems like an unreasonably broad statement.

>>43178465
I'd be happy to be proven wrong

>>43178462
They're not illegal sweetheart. It's unregulated.

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>>43178352

>>43178451
Free copper is a poison and causes oxidative damage, but apparently also needed for tissue repair and stuff. Ghk-cu occurs naturally in your body and is copper bound to a peptide, making it usable and harmless. Makes it particularly important to make sure its pure though since you don't want to inject free copper from a degraded peptide
>anything that's super-suitable for trans women do you think?
I think there were some that indirectly boost growth hormone which may be interesting to some, but I don't feel comfortable fucking with that so I don't remember the name. I want ghk for skin and hair and for epithalon since it probably restores telomere length. Both probably good for long term anti aging, which is primarily what I'm after more than short term looksmaxxing

>>43178394
don't buy within eu just order straight from China, they reroute the package in eu anyway so its like 99% chance of it arriving to u undetected. I bought 100mg reta and 500mg gckcu for 180usd

>>43178477
I mean the CJC-1295 & Ipamorelin stack seems like it would be good for lateshits trying to get the full benefits of second puberty since it's the lack of GH that inhibits the estrogen from having it's full effect.

I don't know what I'm talking about but that seems logical to me.

>>43178529
nta but might as well just buy gh atp

>>43178462
>>43178487
This is dumb, they're not illegal and openly discussed in many places at this point. I get insta ads trying to sell them

>>43178521
Do you know a way to get good bac water in EU? Apparently the vendor ones sometimes have inconsistent pH

>>43178529
that's fair
I know people have talked about mk667 before, but I've never really heard any confirmed uses
the effects of something like that would be hard to validate, unless someone were to transition normally for 3-5 years and then start the GH secretalogue

>>43178521
QRD on reta vs wegovy?
I'm on (prescribed) wegovy and it's working, but it's also super expensive and everyone else seems to be on reta and I feel like I'm getting Jewed by the government.

>>43178565
Is there a benefit to glp1 if I'm not looking to lose weight?

>>43178536
humint, you’re cattle dumbfuck

>>43178535
So the issues with GH injections is
1. It doesn't persist. It only lasts a few hours at most, so it's only really useful for musclemaxxers.
2. Agromegaly, which is the worst thing that could possible happen to a trans woman.

>>43178560
I'm literally looking these up as we go, but the CJC-1295 seems like it would be more useful and less risky than mk667.

>>43178616
Would GH released from peptide use somehow not cause acromegaly?

Growth Hormone is for ftms and cis men.

It isnt for women. It makes everything grow

>>43178578
It also treats binge drinking. Other than that from what I understand if you're normal BMI with normal appetite then absolutely fucking don't.

I know cis women who took it to get to normal BMI and then kept taking it and got kinda fucked up from it (not much, just kinda).

>>43178352
Fit.
But most of them give you cancer.
Not in a “muh chemicals” way. Most of the hyped ones literally make people feel better by spiking their HGH which isn’t supposed to happen in adults and gives you cancer.

>>43178632
Yeah because it's not flooding receptors all at once, it's a slow release that's happening according to natural cycles.
The CJC-1295 last for about a week and is basically just telling the pituitary gland to go a bit harder on natural GH production, rather than bypassing it completely.

And again I am literally researching this on the fly. I don't know.

>>43178638
Early transition you want growth in female fat storage areas while weight cycling.

>>43178681
>Early transition you want growth in female fat storage areas while weight cycling.

Pio. Then after breast tanner 4, prog.

GH is used by bodybuilders, it lowers bodyfat. Bad for women, good for men.

Ftms should be using test and deca. GH for men is advanced stuff

>>43178663
Anything that causes growth causes cancer.
Estrogen causes breast cancer, because it causes boobs to grow so if you've got any cancer cells in your boobs it's causing those to grow too.

Testosterone causes testicular and prostate cancer because it causes testicles and prostates to grow.

Should girls just be using ghkcu?

>>43178639
fucked up how?
>>43178681
that sounds interesting but anything involving GH terrifies me. maybe I'll research a bit more myself

>>43178691
Pio inhibits breast growth.
Breast fat is intramuscular, not subcutaneous. Pio inhibits intramuscular fat growth by encouraging subcutaneous fat growth.

GH causes all fat growth, AND causes non-fat breast tissue growth.

You don't use it your whole life, but the first year or two of transition, particularly in over 40s, GH and IGF-1 encouragement is a good thing.

Milk makes boobs.

>>43178728
>fucked up how?
I'm not actually sure, this is coming from the other women at work who just said they had to go off it because reasons.

>>43178733
Pio's effects are largely being over stated here and elsewhere. There's a kernel of truth, as in diabetic and severely obese responders there was a noted emphasis on losing visceral fat and gaining subcutaneous. However, that result is modest to begin with and virtually undetectable in someone who's neither diabetic nor obese. Also
>Breast fat is intramuscular, not subcutaneous...
Is just wrong in the first place. Breasts are subcutaneous fat and glandular tissue...you're working off of a faulty premise in the first place.

Anyone looking at this thread, please just ask your doctor. These are some wildly ridiculous conclusions and I half suspect some people are just trolling.

>>43178801
never talk to doctors, they're evil

>>43178851
And retarded incels on 4chan are somehow not? These niggers unironically want to sabotage you, that's why they spread this misinformation. Did /lgbt/ learn nothing from the 'femboy' infographics that told them to do exclusively high intensity cardio to gain a bigger butt? People want you to fail. Do your own research.

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>>43178801
>These are some wildly ridiculous conclusions and I half suspect some people are just trolling.
I've literally made it clear almost every other post that IDFK WTF I'm talking about,
but this
>Breasts are subcutaneous fat and glandular tissue
Is wrong.

Breast fat volume predicts body visceral fat content (and diabetes risk) independent of BMI.
>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2009.336
>https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2211341/

I figured out really early on that there's fuck all science on how to grow boobs good, but there's a metric fuckton of science on big boob = bad (because fuck this gay earth). So my approach from the start has been find out what the itty bitty tiddy committee wants me to do, and do the opposite.

The itty bitty tiddy committee highly reccomends pio in the treatment of pre-diabetes.

I'm generally not opposed to turning my body into a science experiment, but peptides are expensive relative to the level of evidence behind the compounds. I think most people (including myself) are better off optimizing the basics first. Diet, exercise, sleep. Beyond that checking for nutrient deficiencies and treating medical conditions. If you do all that already, maybe then peptides are worth it. But I think most of it is just normies getting scammed.

>>43178352
i think exercising and eating well do more than peptides ever could

>>43178982
>Is wrong.
You are massively misunderstanding the papers you are reading. Breasts being composed of subcutaneous fat and glandular & connective tissue is basic biology, it's not even an argument.


As for your papers, you are misunderstanding the premise. The studies you linked are about correlation. People with higher overall body fat (including visceral fat) often also have larger breasts. That doesn't mean breast fat is visceral or anything other than subcutaneous. You're confusing association with tissue types.
The actual claims of the studies are:
"People who store more fat in general (including harmful visceral fat) may also have larger breasts"

Or "Fat people tend to have larger breasts".
You really do not know what you're talking about.

>>43178681
Don't do weight cycling. It ignores how fat distribution works, how estrogen works, and more. Gain weight in a healthy way while exercising. Don't be retarded.

>>43178702
Yes.

>>43179095
No that's not what they're saying. They're saying that breast fat PREDICTS (that's more than correlation), a higher proportion of viceral fat in a body with otherwise the same total fat.

Two women, BMI 30, BFC 25%, the one with the F-cups has more visceral fat than the one with the C-cups.

Because breast fat doesn't increase or decrease with subcutaneous fat (which is what pio promotes), it increases and decreases with intramuscular fat (which pio inhibits).

You do pio for a big jiggly butt AFTER puberty. Boobs first, then butt.

But thanks for taking the thread off topic with your "basic" biology. Come back to me when you've done the advanced class.

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>>43179147
Weight cycling worked an absolute fucking treat for me.
If I had gained weight healthily while excercising from my starting point I'd look like Eddy Hall.

>>43179162
Cool. I still want big boobs tho.

>>43179204
You’re still misunderstanding what “predicts” means in those studies. It refers to a statistical association after controlling for variables, not a different type of fat or a unique biological mechanism. It does not mean breast fat behaves differently from other subcutaneous fat.

Breast fat is subcutaneous fat. That is basic anatomy, and it does change with overall subcutaneous fat levels. Weight gain and loss affect breast size, which directly contradicts your claim that it does not track subcutaneous fat.

There is also no evidence that breast fat “tracks intramuscular fat.” Intramuscular fat is a metabolic marker within muscle tissue, not a driver of breast tissue growth. That mechanism is something you are adding, not something shown in the papers.

Your example with two people having the same BMI and body fat percentage does not prove what you think it does. Fat distribution varies due to genetics and hormones, so differences in breast size do not uniquely imply higher visceral fat.

You’ve taken a statistical correlation, treated it like a causal mechanism, and then built additional claims on top of that about how different fat compartments behave and how pioglitazone affects them. None of that is supported by the literature you cited.

The underlying point still stands. Breasts are composed of subcutaneous fat and glandular tissue, and nothing in those studies contradicts that.

>>43178801
You know I'm not going to assert anyone here knows what they're talking about, but most endos don't know the first fucking thing about tranny meds either. 90% of them want to hondose you, and you think they're going to know shit about trying to encourage breast development? Come on now.

>>43179227
No you wouldn't have, are you stupid? That's not how exercise works in the first place. You'd have to eat an unhealthy amount of calories and train a ludicrous amount to ever match Eddie Hall and you still wouldn't come close.

Weight Cycling leads to severe obesity for most cases because it's even less grounded than 'bulking' which is already a retarded idea. Please do basic research and stop peddling the most asinine takes imaginable. The benefits that estrogen provides are not only gradual, but would happen anyways without significant weight gain. All you and others are doing are making yourself obese in hopes that your fat distribution won't fuck you over. Which for most people, it will. Because you can't CONTROL fat distribution. Fat Distribution is largely independently controlled by genetics, not sex. Your biological sex (or hormonally induced gender) are only going to determine the general 'weight' of fat distribution, it won't override your individual genetics.

>>43179304
Pio is not a fucking tranny med you retard, it's not used for that purpose because it doesn't fucking work for that purpose. You guys are just being obscenely retarded.

>>43179263
>You’re still misunderstanding what “predicts” means in those studies.
It means a non-specious correlation.
You're trying to reduce it to a potentially specious correlation so you can ignore the implications.
Except that's the top two examples of a 100 fucking articles that all say the same thing.

Your basic bitch biology textbook told you the breast fat was subcutaneous fat, and you belived it. It's so much easier to fool a man than to convince him he's been fooled. Your textbooks were wrong. The new editions will update this eventually.

Everything else in your post is irrelevant to the point. Pio inhibits breast growth in favor of butt growth.

>>43179335
I think you're ignoring the central thrust of my point here, anon.

>>43179335
I can see your endo hasn’t done a good job controlling your testosterone :^)

>>43179315
I was 156kg and could deadlift 360kg.
I had a 140cm waistline.

And you think I needed to excersize MORE and GAIN weight?

No. What I needed to do was exercise as little as possible for 2 years to let my muscles atrophy with estrogen and weight cycle. Which is what I did and am doing and it works.

>>43179346
Okay three things:

1) The papers don't support your attempt at rewriting anatomy in the first place, you misunderstood them.
2) Pio isn't going to do shit for people who aren't diabetic or obese in the first place.
3) IF you were diabetic, Pio would reduce visceral fat and encourage subcutaneous fat to a modest degree which COULD increase breasts just as well as it could your butts or thighs or arms or face. You fundamentally don't understand fat distribution.

Also nothing you've said supports the idea that Pio magically works this way. You're either trolling or larping to spread misinformation.

>>43179373
Most trans are starting from a lower point. Weight cycling implies an extremely unhealthy cut and bulk in a short period of time. If you're misconstruing weight cycling with you just dropping and gaining weight gradually, you've lost the plot. No one is going to tell you that losing or gaining weight over time frames like '2 years' is bad, anon.

>>43179373
yeah that's an uncommon starting point, roid tranny

just a head's up: you guys are arguing with people who don't actually know what the difference of subcutaneous and visceral fat. trannies are notoriously the most uneducated group on fitness and health due to a distrust of doctors that was propagandized into them. it sucks but it is what it is.

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>>43179393
No, you're just stubbornly refusing to accept new science that contradicts old science.
The most common problem in all of science.
This is why science progresses one funeral at a time.

>>43179408
You mean your generic type 17 year old twink. That's not most trans.
The average age of transition in the US is 37, with people having endured 20-30 years of gender dysphoria at that point. We're not skinny androgynes, we're fucking up middle aged "men".

>>43179419
No it isn't.
What's uncommon is going through a healthy guided transition at an appropriate age. In fact it's practically unheard of in the west.

>>43179481
>pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
When we see actual serious research on transition methods and results, we'll start listening to people who don't know that "evidenced based medicine" is to the scientific method what "based on a true story" is to the news.

>>43179483
You're more delusional than the fatties on /fit/ arguing against CICO. I wonder if it's unironically just three or four really stupid trannies shitting up this board or if board culture is actually this willfully ignorant? I feel like it takes /lgbt/ upwards of a decade to learn what everyone else already knew. Like I remember 10 years ago /lgbt/ was convinced you could get a femboy aesthetic by doing high intensity cardio constantly while avoiding lifting weights, even though the most consistent and noticeable way to build your butt is through resistance training (something afabs have to resort to all the time). In any case, I hope you do some actual research if you're not just a chud trying to sabotage trans women, nona. You're setting yourself up for disappointment in more ways than one.

>>43179481
So glad you "experts" complete derailed to conversation on peptides btw.

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>>43179507
>Like I remember 10 years ago /lgbt/ was convinced you could get a femboy aesthetic by doing high intensity cardio constantly while avoiding lifting weights
nobody believed this 10 years ago lmao
you are concern trolling about stuff you clearly don't understand
also >afabs

>>43179507
>/lgbt/ was wrong once
THIS CONVERSATION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT PEPTIDES
You've contributed absolutely nothing to that conversation you can reminisce about femboys in the mid 2010s and crap on about shit that doesn't actually matter since nobody is doing pio any more.

Don't talk to me about sabotage cunt. This shit could potenially really help trans women, and the conversation just isn't reaching us, because you have tell us how smart you are by gaslighting everyone who disagrees with you.

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>>43179539
>>43179516
>peptides
Has no feminizing effects.
/thread

>>43179507
True

>>43179533
>nobody believed this 10 years ago
Infographics like this circulated here constantly 10 years ago, where have you been hon?

>>43179572
>I don't care about peptides
Then why the fuck are you in the thread?

>gaslighting
Oh.

>>43179481
>due to a distrust of doctors that was propagandized into them
Pretty sure actually getting hondosed isn't 'propaganda', unless you're legitimately going to defend barely getting any HRT.

>>43179572
>Infographics like this circulated here constantly 10 years ago, where have you been hon?
funny how the only other time that picture with that filename is in the archive is a post from 2 months ago where you recommend spearmint tea as an antiandrogen, and lots of cardio. Today however you're arguing that cardio is bad? You must have learned a lot in your first 2 months here, "hon".

>>43179596
you're partially right but i'm gonna goon

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>>43179609
That file name came from a google search, it's from a reddit post. Are you retarded? I don't keep blatant misinformation saved on my pc.

>>43179620
>Here a think I googled from reddit that proves everything on 4chan is wrong
PhD level gaslighting right there.

Ask me how I know you're a cis man.

>>43179669
Stop flirting with me

>>43179688
Nobody is flirting with you loser.
It took like 6 months of social transition to start experiencing this shit. You're so used to being listened to without being questioned that you don't even realize you're talking to yourself.

>>43179714
I'm not interested lady, move on

>>43179688
>>43179714
Sorry I just realized that wasn't clear enough for you to understand.

To recap, you did not land a single point.
You did not change a single mind.
Nobody gave a fuck about anything you said.
Nobody was impressed by you.
We're all just annoyed that nobody else got to speak about the actual topic because you had to gaslight everyone into thinking you were smart and we were dumb.
Which again, nobody agrees with.

Women, including trans women, experience gaslighting on a daily basis. We become immune pretty quickly. It's just the fastest way to make it stop is to just wait till it finishes and you go away impressed with yourself.

>>43179739
wow he's really malding over an argument online

>>43179852
>misgendering
Yeah that fits.

So glad you put a stop to those "trolls" spreading all that "misinformation"
This won't work again. I'll see you coming next time.

>>43179739
I didn't mean to say YOU were dumb, whoever you are. Only that the argument one particular tranny was saying is filled with holes. I don't know why you're crying so hard over nothing.

>>43179864
>I didn't mean to say YOU were dumb, whoever you are.
Yes you did.
>Only that the argument one particular tranny was saying is filled with holes.
No you didn't. You just wanted to prove how smart you are.
>I don't know why you're crying so hard over nothing.
Because I was trying to have a different conversation that was important to me, and others, but you had to male up the space for a bit of an ego charge.

I used to do the same thing. It's not learned behaviour, it's testosterone that does that.
You weren't here to share knowledge, you were here to claim victory.

Mum dad pls stop fighting, now should I start injecting the funny blue stuff

>>43179889
Silliest of larps. There's only been like four people in this thread, I'm sorry you misunderstood a study.

>>43179909
>I R SMERT U R DUM DUM ME WIN

>>43179902
I have no idea. Maybe.

>>43179941
You're scaring our children you BITCH

>>43179946
What did bill burr call it? The futon of victory?

>>43178801
>>43179304
The field of medicine knows close to nothing about optimizing transition results. Every attempt to do so is on the thinnest of evidence at best.
>>43179346
There's a theoretical mechanism by which pio *might* inhibit the development of glandular tissue. I don't think here's any reason to expect it to inhibit fat deposition in the breasts.
>>43179393
For that matter I wanna say tirzepatide or maybe reta is a better bet if you're hanging onto visceral fat you need to lose. But estrogen + lifting dramatically changed my body shape fairly quickly without any of these crazy antics.
I have a history of sketch blood sugar numbers and a very metabolic syndrome weight distribution though and I'm tempted to try pio to see what happens. I've mostly delayed because switching to injections (from sublingual) caused me to start gaining weight in all the right places on its own.

>>43180036
Someone reasonable enough at least