This is huge. Finland tracked EVERY tranny under 23 in the country, between 1996 and 2019.>ConclusionMen who "transitioned" had a 6.19-fold decline in mental health.Women who "transitioned" had a 2.52-fold decline.April 2026 study.Why are "trans" activists suddenly silent? How does this help anyone? Or are they afraid to face the truth: that they've harmed the very people they tried to help?IT’S ANOTHER SHOAH FOR MALE MEN IN DRESSES
>>43199440https://doi.org/10.1111/apa.70533Study link.
This will bounce off their powerful male skulls
everyone knows GAC doesn’t work and is bullshit but GOCK does work
>>43199440You fucking moron we already had this thread. TL;DR study only measures visits to psychiatric services after being referred to transpoli (transition services). Not only does it take an average of several years to even start receiving HRT after being referred to transpoli, but it is required to have a psychiatric followup every 3-6 months in order to receive HRT. This study just measures that trans people are jumping through the hoops cissoids force them to. One of the authors, Riittakerttu Kaltiala, is literally the person who is in charge of this policy.
is it wrong to be mentally ill?
>>43199494It's hard not to be mentally ill in this world
>>43199440>>43199450OP linked a "study" coauthored by Riittakerttu Kaltiala, a member of a pro-"conversion" hate group SEGM. In the "studies" this study in turn cites, there is a Trump government document (reference 19) laundered through anti-vaccine activist RFK Jr's HHS.The study is measuring one narrow proxy: specialist psychiatric contacts. There's no data on self-harm rates, suicidal ideation, patient satisfaction, identity congruence, or functioning. These are the outcomes trans people and clinicians actually care about most, and they're entirely absent. The paper's conclusions are thus far more sweeping than its data can support.The paper waves away minority stress theory by saying societal acceptance has increased so psychiatric rates should have fallen. But that's a simplistic reading. Trans visibility and social acceptance have increased unevenly, and increased visibility can actually increase exposure to discrimination and online harassment, not reduce it. The assumption that "more accepting society = less minority stress" ignores a lot of nuance.The paper also completely ignores the comprehensive Utah review of evidence supporting treatment:https://web.archive.org/web/20250525001504/https://le.utah.gov/AgencyRP/downloadFile.jsp?submissionId=287The authors of OP's paper intentionally ignored the Utah Review because it does not fit their anti-trans narrative. OP linked a garbage source. On the other hand, the comprehensive Utah Review was commissioned by Republican lawmakers, who one would not expect to yield such a positive result.
>>43199461it work tho
>>43199494Yes
>>43199565Remember that patients are REQUIRED to see psychiatrists several times a year, and that the "index date" it indicates (first visit to gender clinic) is literal years before most patients tend to get any GAC. So, the study population is mostly people who are being beaten and battered by a system, are required to do exactly what the study is measuring, and are not even receiving HRT. A more accurate study title would be "Individuals who have visited gender affirming therapy clinics visit psychiatrists more often after we require them to while leaving them entirely untreated." And again, literally authored by the monster in charge of this policy.
>>43199659At what point do we just say the authors of these studies are doing these little statistical sleights of hand on purpose, intentionally misleading people? After how many papers they publish trying to pollute the scientific corpus with intentionally engineered bullshit? What even is the recourse?
>>43199693it was obvious from the beginning that the paper was dishonest as soon as you read Riittakerttu Kaltiala's name
>>43199693Well it's very obvious that she is given her previous work (authoring a study supposedly measuring suicide, while controlling for the variable the study was analyzing), her affiliation with SEGM, her work on the Cass Review, her ritualized abuse of trans men and women in the transpoli, etc. She's a fucking monster. Possibly even worse than Kenneth Zucker. Only reason I hesitate is that Zucker abused kids rather than adults.
>>43199693Never trust a Finn. They're sneaky goblins and they should have never be let to lead a country. They were better off when Swedes ruled over them, they could ape out in freedom while real ppl took care of skit.
>>43199718>>43199741I know that it's obvious to me. It's not going to be obvious to most people.
>>43199741she's actually in charge of the youth side of transpoli and holds views such as "you shouldn't validate youth transgender experience and instead say things like 'you're a girl who thinks they're a boy or you're a boy who thinks they're a girl'"
>>43199797Sweden isn't much better. Basically all of the Nordics are ass for trans healthcare. Something about the lack of sunlight makes them devoid of empathy.
>>43200003I think I might hate Finland more than Bongland at this point. Every single thing I learn about her makes me wish I wasn't opposed to the death penalty on principle, solely because if there's a use case for it, it's against monsters like her.
>>43200016Eh it's fine.
what did they control against, general population? every study ever shows that gender dysphoric people do better with transition than not
>>43200122Still bans HRT and puberty blockers for minors because one single kid developed bone health issues because they were prescribed the wrong dose and not HRT. But we already know that trans people tend to have poor bone health prior to treatment and that HRT boosts bone health. Swedish institutions are just evil and stupid.
>>43200139They measured before "treatment" (not actually treatment, just seeing transpoli for the first time, so roughly 4 years before actually receiving treatment) and after.
>>43200062Imagine living here ;____; this study was linked to a moderately popular Finnish subreddit for normies and got like 70% upvotes. People were comparing trans medical care to getting a bbl w/ tax money and calling srsussies "pussy-like caverns", among other shit.
>>43200171lol
>>43200199>"The Nordics are great for the LGBT!"Throw them into the fjords
>>43200199Tranny "medical care" is exclusively cosmetic.>pills or juice to look a certain way>surgery to look a certain way>or else i'll kms and a school you CHUD
>>43199440>be me depressed repper>never see a therapist>tell my doctor im doing great and loving life>have 0 psychiatric issues on my medical record :)
>>43199659and? if they were mentally well they woupdnt be seeking those services. Trooning out makes you more depressed, anxious, and more likely to 41% >>43199480again retard.
Damn, nordics seem like ass for trans people. Is there anything like an informed consent model anywhere or does everyone have to get gatekept?
>>43199440This is nothing, kys nigger
hi chuddy! here is a relevant hazbin hotel image for your post.
>>43200901YAY ur back!
>>43200914here is a relevant hazbin hotel image for that response. :)
Uses cis people as the controlsaka it's not real'Cancer patients are less healthy than people without cancer!'Wow, insane
>>43200855They're seeking them out in order to transition in the first place
>>43199440No shit Sherlock, transitioning success depends on environment
>>43200199Finnish people are cruel because they live in a hellscape
>>43199440>require trannies to get psychiatric services to receive treatment>post study showing trannies get more psychiatric servicesstunning revelation someone get these authors a nobel
>>43201391thats not what YOUR CHART SAYS. Trannies can't read #3838483. The chart says that trannies are more mentally ill after transition than before transition. It goes up the more they trans.
>>43199565Based, shut that OP the fuck up
>>43201608thats what the abstract says, not the actual data
>>43199440looked over it, shit study. There is no control group, the study only uses compliers and never takers but doesn't take into account always takers or defiers. You instead falsely claim that deniers had the best outcome yet they are not in the study.There is heavy biais in the forumals since many variables weren't treated, there is anticipation and the two populations are far from comparable Best it can do for results is suggest that people who transition are more conscious about their mental health and that more mental health councilling is required for non trans peopleIf that doesn't make any sense to you then you have no buisnesses trying to quote a study because you have the intellectual capabilities of a sausage roll
>>43200199Finland has always been shit for trans people, idk why anyones shocked.Even Estonia is better
Normies are fooled but any academic worth their salt isnt.Every psychiatrist ive had, ive torn to pieces when it comes to trans studies. I find pubmed studies, then quote them during sessions. When they dont know about them, i question if they even went to university and if they are fit to hold a professional post.Every single anti trans talking point has been debunked.
>>43199440This is probably the worst study ever Finland literally requires psychiatric medication and help while an individual transitions, and then they go and say “ well that means they are just mentally ill and that's why all of them have to take psych meds “
>>43201688I think authoring a study like this should result in your qualifications being revoked. This is obviously intentionally bad.Also, because this thread is shit:>all fields
>>43201608>Trans people are more likely to visit psychiatrists after we make them visit psychiatrists for evaluation purposes
>>43202056Again, the study has nothing to do with tranny appointments. You go to a GP or to the internet for that. This is for tranies who want to 41% 41% 41%>>43201687
>>43202385>Source: illiterate, deranged /pol/tard.Learn to spell, learn to read, and then picrel.
>>43200163>Still bans HRT and puberty blockers for minors because one single kid developed bone health issuesLIterally did not happen, Snoy. They banned blockers because every single FTM that docu investigated (there were like 38 of them) had negative side effects. The one whose spine crumbled into fairy dust was just the worst of them.Blockers were just a tremendous blunder, they're not really reversible despite claims and they cause bad optics when poons turn into the ark opening scene in Indiana Jones. Immediate HRT should always have remained the policy.
>>43201741>idk why anyones shockedAnglo shitlibs valorize the Nordics reflexively because they like high taxes, authoritarianism and """free""" healthcare. They're shocked when they find out that the last two invariably add up to draconian gatekeeping of healthcare resources because they're fucking dumb and don't think through the obvious consequences of policies (if they did they would not be shitlibs).
>>43201930nope. authoring dishonesty like this should have your hands cut off, your tongue cut out, and your eyes removed.
>>43202868Hrt over the counter NOW
>>43199797>>43200062I love Finns, it's just such a small country that ideological anti-trans cultists like the ones who authored this """study""" can very easily worm themselves into positions of power. Every Finnish tranny that I have ever interacted with has been a very fascinating person, they just need to be liberated.Honestly with the amount of high IQ trannies there are we should really start adopting the same tactic. More of you need to be sent off to med school instead of wasting your potential on stupid computer shit.
>>43202842Did they take into account that trans people have lower BMD scores prior to treatment, and that they had been putting people on blockers for upwards of four years? I'd say blockers just for evaluation purposes are good (but evaluation should never take more than a year) just in case and at the request of the patient. What the Nordics and the UK did by mandating blockers only treatment prior to a certain age is malpractice.
>>43202955Unfortunately med school is insanely expensive and for the middle class trannies who would have reason to pursue it, it means delaying surgeries. The fact that med school subsidies are terribly low in most of the world is baffling.
>>43200749Finnish healthcare is exclusively cosmetic, as Fins aren't human
>>43199440Already posted and disproven last week
>>43202385Have you read the bullshit you linked?>>43199440What are "mental health problems"?What is "mental health decline"? Why so vague all of a sudden? Is it because that "study" is bullshit?>>43200855>Trooning out makes you more depressed, anxious, and more likely to 41%Me when i pull shit out of my ass>>43202385Me when i pull shit out of my ass and are a retarded britnigger
>>43199440Damn, I gotta rescue a cute Fin girl and share my hrt with her....and then turn her into my pet
>>43199440Aah yes the country which gatekeeps trannies from transitioning, with things that should be used as part of diagnosis and things what has nothing to do with it. Most perfect example of recent memory i can think of is when they gatekept a trans girl who had srs done in different country, and was still gatekept.And one of the cunt is a literal terf. Her name being Kaltiala. They are not there to help trans ppl, but to gatekeep as much as possible with plausible deniability. Why? because finland is part of eu. They create propaganda.T.finnish tranny gatekept twice know.
Is this going to be in the next my winter car update fintroons?
>>43203621Based stay natty and let me jerk you off
>>43205146No i rather kys, im on hrt, hanging by a thread. You should be forcibly transitioned so you know i feel. It is not fun suffering here. All i wanna be is a woman. So i could go live my life. Psycho
>>43199480Nice cope. You lost, tranny.
>>43205274oh my god why are all of you so fucking stupid
>>43202385He's chimping out, cluch your purses everyone
>>43203621>Most perfect example of recent memory i can think of is when they gatekept a trans girl who had srs done in different country, and was still gatekept.Exposes how its all a farce
>>43200265Liberal policies are pretty much about performance here. For example gay marriage was legalized only after the reality that Finnish and western mindset are not the same thing started to be seen by outsiders and the fear of being viewed as eastern bloc (as we were totally neutral and shit) triumphed over the innate need to keep things as they have always been
>>43205322Their racism (desire to not be associated with slavs) triumphed over their homophobia. Many such cases.
>>43205297What mental problems do you have?
>>43205355She's a Fin
>>43205374Don't be like that.
>>43205297He's right tho, this is an LRegardless of flaws in methodology or whatever this paper is out there now and adding to the Cass report snowball
>>43205411>mfw the group that exists solely to manufacture evidence to hurt trannies manufactures evidence to hurt tranniesEvery affiliate of SEGM should have their licenses revoked
>>43205654Yes, and? They're not GOING to get revoked is the point, they have successfully manufactured the evidence and spread it, this is an unambiguous L for us, are you incapable of thinking except in wishful hypotheticals?
>>43205680One day we can hope that they will.
>>43199440Damn that sucks, I guess it's over. How can I sue my doctors for malpractice by suggesting GAC?
>>43205680What do you suggest, retard?
>>43205680Fuck every single institution against us, DIY now
>>43199440yeah we already know. idc if normies are finding out. we'll still gaslight people and win
>>43199440>https://doi.org/10.1111/apa.70533Yeah. Minority Stress was never a sufficient explanation for the rate of comorbidities. But this study doesn't really say what chuds want it to say nor is it as bad as trannies think it is for their optics. 4chan is a great example of two highly uneducated groups attempting to argue a subject that's far beyond their capabilities.
>>43199565>>43199480Both of these replies are mostly venting and don’t actually describe what the study did.First, the claim that it “only measures psychiatric visits after referral” is just false. The Finnish register data tracks people years before they ever contact gender services, and one of the main findings is that psychiatric diagnoses and service use are already elevated well before referral. So this isn’t just measuring people “jumping through hoops” after entering the system.While it’s true that Finland requires ongoing psychiatric follow-up, the study doesn’t just count routine visits. It looks at diagnoses, medication use, and inpatient care, including serious conditions. Those patterns show up before contact as well, which gatekeeping alone can’t explain.Third, bringing up Riittakerttu/SEGM is basically guilt by association. If there’s a problem with the study, it has to be in the methodology or data. Just pointing at who was involved doesn’t invalidate nationwide registry findings.The “narrow proxy” criticism is partly fair but overstated. Register studies don’t capture things like identity satisfaction, but they do capture real clinical outcomes, including severe diagnoses and hospital-treated self-harm. That’s standard for this type of research, and the limitations are obvious from the design.On Minority Stress Theory, you can argue the authors interpret it too simplistically. That’s a reasonable critique. But that’s about interpretation, not whether the underlying pattern exists.And the Utah review point is irrelevant. This paper isn’t trying to be a comprehensive review of treatment outcomes. It’s a descriptive study of psychiatric morbidity in one population. It doesn’t need to cite every policy report to be valid.If you strip away the rhetoric, the actual result is simple. People who present to gender identity services in Finland show elevated psychiatric morbidity that predates contact.
>>43201688You’re criticizing it as if it’s a randomized causal study, but it isn’t one. This is a register-based observational cohort study, so terms like “compliers,” “always takers,” and “defiers” don’t even apply here. That’s a completely different framework.Also, saying there’s “no control group” is just incorrect. The study compares people who contacted gender services with matched controls from the general population in Finland. That’s the control group.You’re also misreading what it measures. It’s not about “people who transition vs don’t,” and it’s not just counseling frequency. It looks at diagnosed psychiatric conditions, medication use, and hospital care, and finds those are elevated before contact with services. That directly contradicts your explanation that it’s just about being more mentally health–aware.You can argue it’s not a causal study, and that’s fair. But most of your points come from applying the wrong methodology entirely, not from actual flaws in what the study did.
>>43201930It's already been explained but it bears repeating this is not a causal study... it's not a bad study for what it was supposed to do. What happened in this thread is a random retarded chud claimed the study was asserting some causal factor and all the trannies immediately accepted that as true without actually reading or understanding what the study was. Mixed in with blatant propagandists like Snoymoder and yeah, this is stupid. The study is fine and doesn't mean what you think it means.
>>43206225If rates are already elevated prior to referral, and then GO UP in response to being mandated to attend, then how does that demonstrate that psychiatric morbidity goes up from receiving care (that the patients aren't actually getting because the average time to even start HRT after visiting transpoli is several years)? The conclusion the study is attempting to push is that GAC increases psychiatric morbidity. The study counts visits to specialists, which is what transpoli mandates. Referring to the authorship isn't "guilt by association." It's quite literally the authorship itself, not the authorship's associations.
>>43206225>While it’s true that Finland requires ongoing psychiatric follow-up, the study doesn’t just count routine visits. It looks at diagnoses, medication use, and inpatient care, including serious conditions. Those patterns show up before contact as well, which gatekeeping alone can’t explain.You haven't read the stooody. It does not do that>thinks rapepoli gives hormones after 2 yearsLol>matched controls from the general population in Finland. That’s the control group.Aka "we cherrypicked a group of people to compare trannies to". If you tracked every tranny somewhat, you could've also done much better than a 4 to 1 control>Third, bringing up Riittakerttu/SEGM is basically guilt by associationAll "researchers" are SEGM-associated. It brings up the fact, that this is not some random statistics/demographic piece, its making up stoodies for new "reviews" to use
>>43206331Listen...I'm going to say this very carefully because it's obvious you didn't read my prior posts.The study is not claiming that psychiatric morbidity goes up DUE to receiving gender affirming care. It is not a causal study. You are arguing as if it is making a claim that it is not doing. You are arguing against a random chud's interpretation of the data of a register study...the purpose of register studies are not to determine a causal factor.Yes, the data includes specialist visits, some of which are routine follow-ups required by the clinics. That is true. But the study also tracks serious psychiatric diagnoses, hospitalizations, and medication prescriptions. These are not simply “mandated visits” and show that psychiatric morbidity was already elevated before any contact with the gender clinic.The timeline matters. Most patients do not start hormone therapy for years after their first visit, yet the elevated psychiatric outcomes are present well before that. This means that the study is capturing real clinical patterns, not just compliance with clinic rules.Finally, pointing to authorship or policy roles does not invalidate the registry data. The findings come from nationwide administrative records, which are independent of individual authors’ positions or views. The critique should focus on the methodology or data quality, not who wrote the paper.The study is descriptive. It shows patterns of psychiatric morbidity among youth seeking gender identity services compared to matched controls. It does not and cannot make claims about treatment causing harm.
>>43206336You’re still misrepresenting what the study measures. It does not only track diagnoses, inpatient care, or prescriptions in isolation; it tracks all psychiatric contacts recorded in national registers, which include both outpatient and inpatient care, prescriptions, and serious conditions. The elevated rates before first clinic contact are documented in the paper, so claiming gatekeeping alone explains them is incorrect.Regarding controls, saying it’s “cherry-picked” ignores standard epidemiological practice. Matching 8 controls per case by age and municipality is a widely accepted method to create a statistically valid comparison group. You could track everyone in theory, but that’s not necessary for the study’s design to be valid.Finally, citing authorship or alleged affiliations as proof the data is invalid is not legitimate. The Finnish registries are independent, and the study’s findings are drawn from nationwide administrative records. Any methodological critique should focus on data, coding, or analysis, not on who wrote the paper or their associations.
>>43206362The study does not actually go into any detail about diagnoses, and the intention of the study is, like some of Kaltiala's previous work, meant to push the idea that GAC is either not helpful or actively harmful. It intentionally obfuscates its data, citing patients as "undergoing gender reassignment" prior to receiving any material treatment. It's intentions, paired with the authorships' previous work and actions outside of academic studies (ex: publicly condemning GAC as an entire practice with religious fundamentalist organization Australian Christian Lobby) indicates a rather specific intent. The authorship controls the interpretation of the data, both by specifically selecting populations of study (ex: non-randomized control group), manipulating the input data (being in charge of transpoli clinics themselves), establishing the study timeline (ex: deliberately organizing data so that the "post-treatment population" is largely composed of those who never received treatment), and obfuscating terminology meant to push a misleading conclusion.
>>43206434Snoymoder, I want to explain this clearly.The study you are talking about uses Finnish national health records. It tracks psychiatric diagnoses, hospitalizations, outpatient visits, and prescriptions for young people who contact gender identity services. This is real clinical data. It is not just about routine follow-ups or “mandated visits.”The study shows that psychiatric problems are already higher than average before any gender-affirming medical treatment begins. Most people do not start hormones for years after their first contact. That means the study is not saying treatment causes mental health problems. It is describing patterns that already exist.The labels in the register like “undergoing gender reassignment” reflect being in the system, not actually having started hormones or surgery. This is standard in administrative data and does not change the main finding that psychiatric issues are already elevated.Regarding the authors, personal views or outside activism do not change the data in the Finnish registries. The numbers come from nationwide records. If there was a problem, it would have to be in how the data were collected or analyzed, not who wrote the paper.The control group is made up of matched people from the general population. This is standard practice to compare similar age groups in the same region. It is not “cherry-picked.”In short, the study shows that young people seeking gender care in Finland already have higher psychiatric morbidity than peers. It does not claim treatment causes harm. Criticism should focus on the data itself, not on assumptions about authors’ motives.
>>43206455You're repeating the same points without actually clarifying anything because you aren't actually acknowledging how studies are conducted. Good data can be sliced and described in ways to produce misleading studies. I'm not criticizing the raw data itself, but rather how it is measured and discussed. Studies aren't simply about providing data. That's what information requests are for. Studies are about interpreting data.
>>43206477The problem is that the only misleading interpretation here is coming from you, Snoy. The study itself doesn’t swing one way or the other. I could easily make pro-GAC arguments based on it. You’re stuck in a feedback loop because the OP misread it as a causal study, and you accepted that interpretation.What the study actually shows is that people with multiple comorbidities often trend worse over time. The fact that gender-affirming care doesn’t suddenly erase unrelated mental health conditions does not mean GAC is ineffective. This study has almost nothing to do with whether GAC works.You’re completely missing the point, and filling every reply with ideological interpretations that aren’t supported by the data. I shouldn’t have to tiptoe around a perceived “persecution complex” just to explain what a register-based cohort study actually is.
>finns get depressed the longer they live in finland Groundbreaking.
>>43206477Or to be even more explicit:Study says that GAC doesn't treat unrelated conditions. Study doesn't say that GAC is a bad treatment for GDStudy notes that high comorbidities exist for people pursuing GAC and that GAC doesn't resolve all those comorbiditiesStudy DOESN'T DISAVOW GAC because GAC is for GD, not LITERALLY EVERY MENTAL CONDITIONDo you get it?
>>43199693To be fair, there was a lot of intentional misleading when it came to teaching people that reassignment was a good thing, or that people who engage in self-mutilation with the blessing of a doctor are somehow going to have more positive outcomes. There's partisan science backed up twelve deep polluting the pool with pro-trans ideology that harms people and, at best, makes them a pariah in their own communities, and unfortunately, there is no recourse because lying isn't a crime.
>>43206553It is absolutely hilarious how badly this thread is reading the study desu. I doubt you'll get through to them.
>>43206531The study data shows an increase in psychiatric morbidity following the reception of care (which doesn't actually include REAL GAC) and specifically calls this out. >>43206553Study says "GAC" (aka, visit to transpoli which it deliberately obfuscates with actual GAC) results in an increase in psychiatric visitsStudy doesn't need to say it's a bad treatment for GD, just that it increases care needs elsewhere (meant to push the idea that GAC causes mental illness)Study deliberately conflates "being shoved into the horrific transpoli system" with GAC as a whole.Study doesn't need to. It's, again, about appearing to be neutral while being deliberately engineered as part of a coordinated effort to discredit GAC.
>>43206553that's because they lessened the criteria to qualify to broaden the pool of candidates.in order for your gender identity disorder to be considered valid in classical terms you CANNOT have comorbidities.doctors greenlighting patients with comorbidities are conducting malpractice.
>>43206622>its invalid because its trying to falsify my beliefsnot how it works im afraid
>>43206639You're genuinely retarded if you can't address the issues with the study's methodology and verbiage.
>>432066221. The study data shows a trend of comorbidities getting worse even after receiving GAC because...GAC doesn't resolve comorbidities.2. Study does not claim GAC as a causal factor, you misread.3. Study doesn't claim that specifically GAC increased care needs elsewhere, you misread.4. Study doesn't make any comments on GAC as a wh- what are you even talking about?5. Study is not trying to discredit GAC. I actually read it as pro-GAC and still do because I'm not reading it with tainted lens. It is a DESCRIPTIVE study, not a causal one. The most it actually says is that young people pursuing GAC need more help than exclusively GAC, not that they don't need GAC.Please...for the love of god just drop this bizarre presuppositions you have. This persecution complex of yours is just annoying at best. I hate that one of the main people shooting down dumb chud arguments is only providing dumb tranny arguments instead of trying to be nuanced or realistic.
>>43206622Snoy...are you serious? lol
>>43206661You mean the issue you made up? Your claim is essentially that GAC cures dysphoria and with it mental health issues caused by gender dysphoria, and your excuse for why they study shows that psychiatric treatment needs go up instead, is that those numbers are just mandatory follow up appointments for trans people that are actually mentally healthy. But that excuse is just made up
>>43206667>After receiving GACYou mean, after not actually receiving GAC, but instead after visiting a known, abusive practice that takes several years to prescribe GAC?>Does not claim causation It doesn't need to. It only needs to imply causation for its propaganda purposes. >Doesn't claim it increased needsIt quite literally does? It claims that patients experienced an increase in "psychiatric morbidity", which is being used to describe accessing psychiatric services (increased healthcare needs)>Study doesn't comment on GACYou're contradicting yourself now. It quite literally refers to "gender reassignment."
>>43206704Mental issues aren't caused by GD, you're also misinterpreting this.
>>43206622Much like the study's authors, the transphobe you're talking to already has a conclusion and will bend ass over backwards to justify it. You can't reason with someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, they're operating on 'feelings' (prejudice.)
>>43206704My claim is that this study, in particular, is deliberately misleading.What you describe as "an excuse" is quite literally the reality of being admitted to transpoli. When patients are mandated to receive psychiatric evaluations as part of treatment, they will of course receive psychiatric evaluations.
>>43206720Wow. You're the dumbest tranny on the board. I hope they stop replying to you. Just willfully ignorant at this point.
>>43206720Snoy, you are still misinterpreting the study. Let’s go point by point:Timing matters – Most patients had serious psychiatric morbidity before receiving any medical intervention. The study tracks visits and diagnoses, not treatment effects. Saying “after visiting the clinic” does not equal “after receiving GAC.”Descriptive, not causal – The study notes patterns of psychiatric diagnoses and visits. It does not imply that gender-affirming care caused anything. You are reading causation into a descriptive trend that the authors explicitly avoid claiming.“Increased morbidity” – This refers to total psychiatric diagnoses over time, which naturally accumulate as youth age, especially when comorbidities exist. It does not mean GAC increased mental health problems.Terminology like “gender reassignment” – Administrative labels in registers do not indicate that treatment has started. The study uses registry terminology, but it carefully notes that most patients had not yet begun hormones or surgeries.Bottom line: The study documents high psychiatric morbidity among youth seeking gender care. It does not discredit or claim harm from GAC. Any claim that it does comes from ignoring timelines, study type, and what the registry data actually track.
>>43199440>Men who "transitioned" had a 6.19-fold decline in mental health.So people got tricked into being tied to a medical system, where they profit exponentially on convincing you that you have mental illnessesAnd then they also ran a multi decade long study where they were pushing for this to happenUhhh yeah no fucking shit. If you believe this is natural, then you literally have to believe the rise in trannies in the last few decades is natural too. Spoiler, neither are and they're products of being exposed to those environments more. Vast majority of "mental illnesses" are complete speculation
>>43206725you can samefag snoy, but you're getting btfo
>>43206704The study doesn't even control for when any gender affirming care was had, it just measures if they used mental health services 2 years after being referred to the clinic.Somehow also those who didn't get any GAC had used more mental health services 2 years after being referred to the gender clinic, almost as if both groups were just taking the other appointments they had been referred to.
>>43206745>t. idiot who can't draw conclusions from data >>43206746>t. idiot who doesn't realize that the study purposefully uses misleading terminology and deceptive data organization to push a specific political agenda to those unfamiliar with the specifics of the subject matter
My question is what does Snoy even want? Like...the study just looks at independent data and recognizes a fairly obvious trend. It's not biased at all? Does the fact that GAC didn't magically resolve unrelated disorders mean that the study is anti-GAC somehow?
>>43206759>t. mysterious third idiot
>>43206776>stringing people along in endless therapy>gaclol
>>43206766Not true and it doesn't matter because the study wasn't trying to be anti-GAC or evaluate GAC's effectiveness anyways>>43206772I'm sorry but you being unfamiliar with these types of studies or academic jargon doesn't make them deliberately misleading. I don't want to be a dick but if you have this much trouble understanding a study then you should probably have someone else read it for you. You're obviously a layman in this case and that's nothing to be ashamed of. It's just annoying to argue with someone who's offended by the fact that they don't understand concepts they haven't put the effort into learning.
>>43206776Again, the raw data itself is valid, which I've reiterated already. It's specifically the methods used to interpret the data and the terminology used to describe it that is misleading. You, yourself, keep referring to the process prior to receiving any GAC as GAC itself.
>>43206455You are so fucking gullible you have to be under 18Anon these "studies", are flawed and manipulated. Look up replication crisis. You can literally manipulate the results of a study to make any point that you want. This happens repeatedly in courts where the prosecutor hires an expert to lie on their behalf
I think estrogen might make some people dumber. Pooners seem smart by comparison
>>43206799>Not true Why not?>the study wasn't trying to be anti-GAC or evaluate GAC's effectiveness anywaysYeah, it actually doesn't measure that but it essentially masquerades itself like it does.
>>43206808>You are so fucking gullible you have to be under 18Or he's an anti playing stupid on purpose for his agenda.
>>43199440your mental health would decline too if you faced constant abuse, hate, violence, oppression
>>43199440I'm going to need some middle aged agp transbians to make 1-3 hour long youtube videos interpreting this study before I decide what I think about it
>>43206799I explicitly understand the jargon, but I am acknowledging that the study's purpose is to serve as a propaganda piece to political groups and administrators who are either lacking in the required expertise or are simply looking for a thin veneer of legitimacy. Unfortunately, policy is primarily dictated by layman, be it the populace or the elected. Jimothy M. Parliament will not have the knowledge about the intricacies of transpoli to accurately interpret the study.
>>43206392Not even responding to this one. Re-read my comment, carefully, and prove you read it. Retard.
>>43206799>Not true and it doesn't matter because the study wasn't trying to be anti-GAC or evaluate GAC's effectiveness anywaysYou looked at how it got reported, literally anywhere? SEGM page, internet news sites? Stop coping, it was 100% a propaganda piece
>>43206820They're making the mistake of trying to evaluate as someone who is "in the know" rather than examining how the study will be disseminated and used as a propaganda piece.
>>43206851>>43206808There are three types of falsehoods. LiesDamned Liesand Statistics
>this threadare we really this stupid nonas?
>>43206836Okay, you have a conspiracy theory essentially. The study wasn't made with that intent. The terminology is standard. The data is standard. The study is bog standard. If your claim is that some anti-trans politician is going to misinterpret it...good news! I don't disagree. Because anti-trans politicians misinterpret every study. No matter how rigorous. Most of this thread is misinterpreting the study because they literally don't understand it. Half of you think it's a causal study. A quarter of you are genuinely retarded. But I'm done trying to explain how stupid this is. You all saw the OP, a trolling chud, and accepted his premise at face value instead of just pointing out that his claims weren't even accurate to the study. Which is insane to me, because instead of saying "You're right anti-trans chuddie, this study is clearly designed to invalidate me" you could have said "Hey wait a minute! You're stupid, the study doesn't even say that!".It is so frustrating that most of you are just chuds that trooned because you never educated yourselves at all and have the mental faculties of a /pol/tard.
>>43206887Amen
>>43206732>deliberatelyAccording to your made up excuses. You cant just debunk evidence using ad hoc excuses without providing evidence that those excuses are actually true.
>>43206804How old are you and are you finnish?
I hope it's just snoy samefagging and not 4 other dummies. I thought we were higher IQ on average?
>>43206930Go back to your Jewish subreddit
>>43206898Is it a conspiracy theory if it's simply an honest evaluation of the authorship's previous actions, both with prior deliberately misleading studies and actions outside of academic contexts? Is it conspiracy theory that the study was immediately disseminated by the SEGM, an organization the authorship is affiliated with and that was quite literally listed in COI section? Is it theory when the authorship has quite literally testified using their misleading studies to have care bans instituted in multiple countries? I think it's disingenuous to not question the intention of the authorship given this information, especially when how the anti-trans media sphere functions.Did anyone claim it was a causal study, or did you just make that assumption?The earliest comments in the thread addressed both the intention of the study as well as what the study actually entailed (measuring psychiatric visits).
>>43206225>Third, bringing up Riittakerttu/SEGM is basically guilt by associationThis study conducted into eugenics by the nazi party is just guilt by association
>>43206908It's an inference based on known data, that being:The authorship's previous work on a study that purported to measure a variable that it controlled for in order to claim that GAC did not reduce suicidality. The authorship's affiliation with an organization solely dedicated to manufacturing evidence to push an anti-trans political agenda. This is outright stated in the Conflicts of Interest section. The authorship's own actions in testifying in favor of trans healthcare bans.The authorship's stated belief that medical transition causes social harm.The testimony of patients who were treated under the authorship's care.
This is just sad atp. I feel bad for snoy :(
>>43207133Who's faggot is thisWhy are you even on this site you buttfuker
>>43206989Anon pointed out your false assumptions several times and you backpedaled to using no evidence at all instead of admitting you misunderstood the study. You went from "study says this" to "study will be misinterpreted" pretty explicitly which is just ironic. Honestly, go fuck yourself you ego maniac
>>43206908>engaging with snoychuds haven't learned we keep a pet gorilla to match their low IQ takes. they'll respond to snoy as if she's not just deliberately being retarded every time
>>43207046Hey cutie, I see you're arguing all day again. You're not doing too hot in this one, but that's okay. Haven't found a better hobby yet? I wish I could entertain you ;)
>>43205695Yeah well the way things are going you'll be lucky to be 70 when that happens. Fat hope that is.>>43205746>it's forbidden to observe reality unless you have a preboxed solution for that aspect of reality firstDon't call me a retard when you don't have two neurons to rub together.>>43205837Yepppp
>>43207248I am unfortunately addicted to arguing with idiots on the internet.
>>43207170The study literally does suggest that gender reassignment worsens mental health>It should be noted that in some individuals, medical GR appears to be linked to deterioration in mental health.They also suggest, multiple times, that gender dysphoria is a result of psychiatric comorbidity>The notable increase in those contacting the GIS and the increased psychiatric morbidity among them since the 2010s may also suggest that, for some, mental health challenges may manifest as concerns related to gender identity>The considerable severe psychiatric morbidity prior to contacting the GIS, and its increase over time, suggest that for some of these adolescents, GD may be secondary to other mental health challenges.Annoying that nobody in this retarded thread pulled these out. Also stop posting chatgpt transphobes, you're increasing my psychiatric morbidity with that shit
>>43207256Maybe all the Lockheed Martin trannies will do something useful some day instead of designing brand new Child Killer 3000 devices for ethnostates in the middle east. Who knows.
>>43207264>I am unfortunately addicted to arguing with idiots on the internet.omg we're so similar
>>43207264Mhm. I understood your point tbf. I think autists got upset about the anti science rhetoric and some off colour claims about the study...but you do have to wonder why the study exists. It's conclusions could have been guessed without research. So thinking it was created purely to be misinterpreted does make sense in a way. Though I can't entirely agree with everything you said cutie
>>43207295There were some points I could have been more precise with. Ignoring the authorship is a completely baffling move, though. It's no coincidence that as soon as the study was published, it was spread by the SEGM and the anti-trans media network. When even someone like Erin in the Morning can accurately address the methodological flaws, misleading language, and authorship concerns of the study, it's apparent that something is up.
>>43207339Well cutie, I won't argue with you on that. But I will be thinking of you. Try to relax a bit and enjoy your evening. I think both you and the spergs had your points this time, but obviously the consequences of your theory weight more heavily than their technically accurate appraisal. In any case, I'll leave you to it cutie. Hope to see you again soon.
>>43199659Didn't they exclude the GAC related visits? At least that's what I thought was mentioned somewhere when I skimmed through the paper.
many posts in this thread read as though they are LLM generated.
>>43207385Unironically I may have an HPA Axis issue (congenital condition, actually) and ragebait may be literally necessary to help alleviate my dysautonomia. It's different when I'm on prog vs off of prog and I started my prog part of the cycle the other day. Honestly do like my mood more when I'm off of prog, but I'm patiently waiting to see if other medication changes (adding Bica to block potential peripheral androgenization, looking into an orchi as well) will change things. Waiting on first appointment with a more qualified endocrinologist to better diagnose and treat the HPA Axis issue, but for now just doing my best with what I have.
>>43203070>Unfortunately med school is insanely expensivePlease shut the fuck up about a topic you know nothing about
>>43207466Aww, we'll be sure to stay on top of your health. And get your beauty sleep cutie!
>>43207438>excluding gender identity assessments and appointments with a multi-disciplinary team thereinOnly covers the care actually provided by the transpoli, which is not all of the care mandated by the transpoli. If the transpoli referred a patient to an external psychiatric service as a requirement for evaluation/treatment then that is not excluded. >>43207471Do you know how easy it is to research the cost of medical school? How long doctors, even with excellent pay, tend to be paying off student loans? You do know that the UK is facing a crisis because it's not paying doctors enough to actually cover the costs of med school, right?
>>43207506I was waitlisted for two years to see this one single endocrinologist, but the funny part is I may be moving to someplace less shit for trannies not long after I finally get to see him.
>>43207593>Do you know how easy it is to research the cost of medical school?Yes, but I don't need to. I live in finland and know our university education is free since I studied in university myself. Please kys.
>>43207605Life is a little rough like that. Keep a happy disposition though, you'll win in the end cutie. Smart girls like you always find a way
>>43207593The debt is trivial compared to their salary which is why everyone competes to be a doctor. And the problem for uk drs is not enough specialist training spots, not the wages per se.
>>43207613Okay, do you know what my comment about the costs of med school was referring to? It's the lack of doctors who are trans in general, not localized solely to Finland. >>43207655This isn't actually true, though. It varies heavily based on locale. US estimates indicate 10-20 years to pay off student loan debt. UK estimates multiple decades because the NHS, hence the aforementioned crisis.
>>43207684>multiple decadesso??? Even after debt payments each momth they are the highest salaried people in the country by far. It’s the most saught after career for a reason, save your pity for people who are in debt and also lack a medical degree lol
>>43207703In terms of cost of entry vs income, it's not the most efficient. Remember, the initial comment was about trannies going into CS instead of medical school. CS pays well while also having a much, much lower cost of entry, allowing trannies to optimize care earlier in life.
>>43207684I know you are using this thread to shit on finland. Go fuck yourself with a tire iron
>>43207621I'm at the start of my prog cycle rn so I'm just grumpier in general. Cost of doing business ig.
>>43207720CS pays if you’re in the top 5%, maybe. Even the worst doctor will earn a ridiculous amount in usa.
>>43207721I can do multiple things at once. Sorry that I accurately characterized Finland as not as pro-LGBT as Angloids make it out to be and have criticized how it's medical establishment treats trans people in particular. Getting defensive over the issues present in your country is, frankly, bizarre.
>>43207734CS employment typically comes with solid insurance packages, and again, getting care earlier in life (as opposed to delaying several years while in med school) is a major incentive for trans people. The typical path through med school means graduating at age 26. Meanwhile, the CS trannies have already gotten whatever surgeries they want. It also helps that tech jobs in general are localized in areas where gender affirming surgeries are more commonly covered by insurance.
>>43207748What I have a problem with is you making sweeping claims about the country and the people like being "devoid of empathy"
>>43207782If you can't sort out facetious comments that are making fun of the absolutely horrid state of trans healthcare across the Nordic countries from genuine beliefs about their populations as a whole, then I'm not sure what to tell you.
>>43207803I don't believe you were joking. You clearly hold some sort of contempt and are trying to frame it as joking.>horrid state of trans healthcare across the Nordic countriesSo is this comment "facetious" as well?
Woah an autistic Reddit LLM thread.Whatever dude, Clavicular and Peter Thiel will continue to push to legalize steroids and this autistic "scientific" debate will be moot.
>>43207937What contempt could I possibly hold for the population of a country whose only relevance, to me, is its medical establishment? You are swinging at phantoms. Why would that entirely accurate statement regarding trans healthcare in the Nordics, who have been historically some of the worst countries in western Europe for trans healthcare, be facetious? It's quite literally factual that the state of trans healthcare both in terms of access and in terms of attitudes there is incredibly poor both historically and today.
>>43199440any study where riittakerttu kaltiala is involved is pseudoscience and basically just anti trans activism. hope that helps
>>43208013I don't know. You seem like genuienly hateful person. Also kinda weird way of framing things as if nothing outside of western world exists.
>>43207721Finland deserves to be shat upon, eat shit and die in a fire t. Finn
>>43208640then move to russia you fucking loser
>>43208753how about you move to a bottom of a swamp fucking bootlicker douchebag
