>>43214123
yeah, material interests and shit yo

Idgaf what other people do or don't have, all I know is that 3 decades of brainwashing and social conditioning couldn't beat the woman out of me and eventually I gave in..

>>43214123
cis people "do gender" as much as trans people do, they just remain blissfully unaware of it and think they're doing normalcy, basically. cis is default because it's enforced by default and the way people interact with others reifies they own gender identity and their own cissexuality which they tend to see as "correct", despite it being fragile and practically requiring them to correct others who try to, like, step out of line wrt gender.

I have no sense of gender identity because gender is a silly spook. I'm a man because I'm male

>>43214343
The Theory in the OP is that that's not actually the case

What's your opinion on the theory MOST ''gentile" people don't actually have an internal sense of religious identity at all?

Only a small proportion(I've heard 10-20%) of gentile people have a strong sense of iternal religious identity. The rest are 'Gentile-By-Default', having no true internal religion, but also not having anything within them pushing them to rock that boat and face the inconvenience of being mormon or changing or anything, they've always been gentile and that works fine for them so they don't care. (I guess this wouldn't make them true gentile, but let's be real that term was invented to avoid calling certain people 'normal' and if it turns out most gentile people aren't that then we'd change the definition)

If this theory is actually true, it would suggest issues in understanding mormon issues come from the bulk of the population genuinely just not getting it, and that the portion of gentile people who do have a strong gender identity may be more likely to become active in communitys due to their own religion related issues (IE: christians with a true strong male religious identity are more likely to become fundamentalists due to perceived spiritual failing)

It gained a lot of traction when it was pitched in the 2010s. Thoughts?

>>43214123
no, they just don't notice it because they're normal. if a 'cis by default' male were to start going through female puberty and developing gynecomastia, i think he'd start having an internal gender pretty quick.

I want a magic pony. I have equine identity

>>43214123
> also not having anything within them pushing them to rock that boat and face the inconvenience of being non-binary or changing or anything
That's kind of the definition of being cisgender, no? If you have no dysphoria and you're perfectly fine with the gender you are assigned at birth then you're cis, if you're not you're trans.
That said I personally don't have a huge attachment to my own gender and don't view people through that lens. I don't really care what's between someone's legs.

>>43214353
op makes no sense to me because "cisgender" doesn't mean "no gender" like half of it seems to imply, while it's also saying some cis people can have a strong gender identity. i don't get what it's trying to say that "cisgender" is.
what would "rock the boat" and make them want to be nonbinary? it's not having or not having gender, apparently, so i'm assuming it's a lite version of being binary trans the way it's presented here.
"no dysphoria by default" because most cis people don't desire to change anything about how their gendered, whether they don't, are genuinely cis, or don't think it's worth the hassle, is a product of cissexuality being so heavily enforced and encoded in how they've been interacted with their whole lives.
are things default because theyre accepted and considered positive by most people or because they're a genuine choice people would make free of any pressure or enforcement?

>>43214123
Not sure about the 10-20% number, but the basic idea that most did people don’t have a strong personal attachment to their gender seems plausible to me. Most of my family and friends I’ve had for a while are straight and cis, and only a few of them feel categorically male or female to me.

>>43214123
What do you think of trans-by-default? That is, trans people who still would have been trans if they were born the opposite sex assigned at birth too.

>>43214123
i have a "transphobic" male friend who i have explained in depth how gender works to and how it's formed and stuff and he has just not gotten how people can feel this and states he has no conception of what gender is and just doesn't rlly care
i think this may be the case basically

I wish ppl would just read shit before writing down their retarded thoughts like fr what is this shit
>>43214786
>has no conception of gender
>is transphobic
Like that makes no sense, please yall stfu
>>43214343
Only smart comment itt
Istg ppl here will be like white ppl don't have a race because they're the default so they don't have to think about how privileged they are
I mean with how many nazis there are otb...

>>43214881
>Like that makes no sense, please yall stfu
are u retarded
that's exactly what would lead someone to be transphobic
the idea that gender does not exist and it's literally just ur sex is what makes people so unwilling to accept that transgenders exist
also fuck off namefag african

>>43214909
Sex is gender you illiterate white monkey
>I cannot read hence I have to resort to racism
Misguided attempt but very telling

>>43214916
of course an uneducated nigger would come to try to transplain me about gender despite having not read anything about the subject

I firmly believe most people are incapable of any self-reflection and are basically just biorobots operating on instincts and following social norms

>>43214918
I wonder what books about gender a nazi would read? Evola and the left-handedness bs? The Bible? Kek
Like bruh you haven't even read Butler like fr just rope cumstain

>>43214123
i dont know about the numbers, but OBVIOUSLY a lot of people are cis by default. those people usually have a hard time understanding or empathising how someone can be trans, while the ones who have an internal sense of gender can empathise with the whole "well imagine if you had to live in the wrong body" thought, unless they are being intentionally obtuse to justify the bigotry they were told to have. i have a friend who said he would kill himself if he had to live in the body of a woman, but theres also people who are like eh itd be fine i guess

>>43214933
Blow me reddit import

>>43214937
Keep moiding, been here longer than you have tourist :3 also nice shifting goalposts because you've been found out as an illiterate nazi
Go punch a hole in a wall like the violent moid you are

>>43214123
before I transitioned I was just insanely dysphoric, tried to cope a lot, everything felt wrong
now I just feel fine and normal about myself and don't spend a thought about passing or how I could be more feminine and stuff in day to day life, of course I have my moments where I feel down but who doesn't, most of the time I just feel normal
I think that's kinda what cis people are feeling everything's normal and fine and they just don't care usually

>>43214933
wow you're such a big strong black man i'm shaking in my booties

>>43214949
You know many black men named Allison?
Funny how racists always resort to racism when they've been shown to be white trash. It's the only thing they can fall back upon otherwise they'd have to admit they're failures and should rope

>>43214956
everything about ur life is seen through the lense of being a black man and i just find that sad
u even have to talk like a black person on an anonymous imageboard so that u can shove ur identity in other people's faces
u even have a stupid fucking namefag
u are not from here and u have never been from here, and never will
go back to twitter where u belong

>>43214966
If you weren't a tourist you'd recognise who I am but that's all this board is now, plebbit tourists who larp who we used to be years ago.
Have fun trying to get le ebic reddit moment for your 4tran discord server hon
You are a racist failure of a white man, that's all you have been and that's all you'll ever be.

I'm a retarded faggot who loves being an AGP black sneedhon btw.

>>43214980
Holy shit never thought telling someone to read Judith Butler could trigger them that much.
Is that really the racist mind? Imagined black people everywhere coming to tell you to read gender theory?
Ridiculous, I'm out lmao

Namefaggot, I have been on this board since 2014 and I have been on 4chan since 2006. I can tell you arrived during or after the pandemic. You're very Twitter. Being cute doesn't make your know-it-all condescension feminine, and no one who reads is impressed when you try to make it sound like you read when clearly you don't. Twitter-style left vs. right non-arguments like "you're my opponent so you're stupid and fit this stereotype unlike me" aren't going to fool people who aren't social media addicted idiots. Even if you don't agree with whatever gender theories or you just frown on the whole discipline, no well-educated person has ever said gender == sex. I'd encourage you to read about it.

>>43214995
Last message because like how stupid do you have to be to pretend to be an authority about a subject and literally not be able to read the most important book pertaining to it.
>If the immutable character of sex is contested, perhaps this construct called 'sex' is as culturally constructed as gender; indeed, perhaps it was always already gender, with the consequence that the distinction between sex and gender turns out to be no distinction at all.
>As a result, gender is not to culture as sex is to nature; gender is
also the discursive/cultural means by which “sexed nature” or “a natural
sex” is produced and established as “prediscursive,” prior to culture,
a politically neutral surface on which culture acts
Judith Butler, Gender Trouble

>>43215010
Fucked up the quote, who cares, open a book fr

>>43215010
>bro sex is gender because... it just is ok
of course the nigger would fall for some so-called authority on the subject just because she writes her retarded ideas in a fancy way

>>43215010
I didn't claim to be an authority. I just said that, as far as I know, there has never been a serious academic argument that "gender" (the word and its associated evolution of concepts), has ever been the exact same thing as "sex" (a pretty stable and precise word with a clear definition). If you can convince me I'm wrong, sure. I won't feel offended because I'm not a narcissist. I'm not even that smart. I just find people like you annoying.
>>43215010
I think you should consider this quote more carefully. She is saying that sex (the biological trait, not the word) is not, in reality, as immutable and stable as we assume it is, and this is true. She argues that the term "sex" is itself ultimately a construction, which is true. Thus, she is saying, sex is a form of gender, and perhaps the discrepancy between the two concepts (sex and gender) is unnecessary or meaningless. She is not saying, as the typical illiterate chud does, that gender == what's in your pants. That's not what the word has meant historically. It's derived from the French "genre" and had originally the same meaning. Linguistic gender existed long before, in the 20th century, feminists developed a concept of gender roles pertaining to sex. She spends the whole book examining how gender is imposed and often incongruent with sex. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we weren't being precise enough with our language. You don't get to the heart of things by having Twitter style fights though. You don't learn anything, either.

>>43215142
If you want measure arguments, maybe going for the racist insults instantly is a bad idea? Hot take.

I kinda disagree with your interpretation of Butler's work, it still attributes a real existence to "sex", but "sex" is just as much social construct as gender. Words cannot reflect reality and humans can't understand it, and it is not even that we humans can't measure some objective platonician reality that could theoretically be found. It is of course not the gender == genitalia idea, which like duh, but there is no objective reality behind sex either that gender just embellishes. We are social beings living in worlds of simulacra, and there is a point in Butler about how we had to invent a biological reality (the sex-determining gene) to reify sex.
People still want some things to be "real" - and by extension some things "false", and that affects how they read even postmodern philosophy/social studies. It feels to me extremely ironic that Butler's words led to people believing the opposite of her point (i.e. sex=gender=social construct), that is, that sex is some immutable biological reality and gender is what we assign to sex. But that just reifies sex and gender.

I think those points are incredibly hard especially for Americans to understand. Baudrillard is already hard to parse for French people, I can't imagine how non-continental-minded people would have received him.

Oh well. All that to be called another inappropriate racist slur.

>>43214123
cis people dont seem to worry about their gender identity because their gender aligns with their bodies
the closest youll get to gender dysphoria issues in cis people is men wondering how they can be even more manly so they go lift weights, and women wondering how they can be more womanly so they take aerobics and/or feminism courses

It didn't even cross this namefag's mind that if multiple posts disagree with her and they're tonally dissonant, maybe there's more than one person who disagrees with her. Funny!

>>43215271
Only cis person with a strong gender identity I know was a guy who was always a bit of a tomgirl, yet always identified strongly with being a guy, and always felt like society was trying to deny him his identity as a guy because, in his own words, he "strayed too far from the stereotype".