have (you) learned how to forgive yourself yet?
no, as a matter of fact I learned to accept it's my fault even when it's not
>>43302467I am trying. Promise I am. Everything seems setup up to make me fail though. Almost like there shouldn't be forgiveness.
>>43302467I come here to self harm and cry, but not like this
I can't forgive myself in earnest because I'm still hurting myself.
>>43302467We try, one of us does at least, all the time. We dont deserve the things we put ourself through.One of us thinks we deserve worse, and works so hard to be self destructive.One of us doesnt think we've earned happiness, and desu I dont think she'll ever.And its only mediated by one of us trying to be efficiently nondestructive and another not caring enough to be miserable.Noone ever truly agrees on anything, but we try, and no matter what I'll never stop trying to push us in the right direction.
>>43302467I just convince myself that I'm better than the rest, so my mistakes are insignificant. I'll never forgive myself.
>>43302467some days are better than others
>>43302467I detest this feelgood rhetoric because all the most evil people I know who never put in even the tiniest shred of effort to fix the harm they do will feign guilt or remorse and then start talking about "im learning to forgive myself..." as if its their own forgiveness that is even remotely relevant or important
>>43303341what differentiates them from anybody else that shows (or feigns) remorse for their actions? i can't say i disagree (i fucking hate the same kinds of people that claim they feel sowwy for the abuse they've lashed out at people and then take it all back for their own benefit)but what makes them noticeably evil and remorseless to you?
>>43302467never
>>43303603growth, change, literally any amount of effort beyond the bare minimum to show they understand what they did wrong and want to fix things. the last person who harmed me grievously kept acting as though she had tried everything in her power to make up for it, when all she had done was reach out to chat or play games every once in awhile. in her mind she genuinely seemed to believe that was some kind of grand effort that could make up for her extensive backstabbing amoral behavior. I even went to check her twitter and she was posting about "everyone deserves kindness, I am capable of understanding and forgiveness" etc. etc. you cant tell them apart very well until you actually get to know them because they will act as though they aren't awful, because they don't think they are. and the most convincing lie is one they themselves believe. same girl would tell me about shitty things she did in the past and how much she regretted it and thought about it constantly. probably the only hint I got she was full of shit is that she never actually said explicitly what she did that caused problems. if they talk about how they were awful in the past but never actually say how, I suppose that's a great indicator that they're refusing to acknowledge what the actual problem was.
>>43302467I had so many chances, privileges and opportunities and I turned all of them down. My lib family is supportive of troons and I even have a trans cousin who's been out for like 10 years. I'm not saying I definitely would have passed, but I'm not the worst case you've seen and if I'd started in my teens when my shoulders hadn't fully broadened, there's a decent chance I could have. I really am just a fucking idiot. Totally hopeless. People try to help me and I just push them away. Transition is for the trutrannies to enjoy, not my decrepit ass who let the time run out cause I was scared of making the wrong choice.
>>43302467no. I will die with a strong hatred and disgust of myself. I try my best not to think about me as a person. i should genuinely off myself
>>43302467no, I know im a bad person and I don't care. I don't want to get better.
>>43303695i think that refusal to acknowledge comes from the idea that people like this girl can't accept the idea that they were (and still are) capable of enacting such harm. whether they know it or not they are living under pretenses that they are ultimately disconnected from pure 'evil', when the most important part of their "change" (if they even reach that) is accepting that you, and i, and her and everyone else is capable of immense harm under the wrong conditions. i think it also comes from the idea that they want to appease (or not displease) you by not elaborating on these things, because they feel like it is far too reprehensible. they realise that the things that are attached to them are horrible but that they couldn't have *really* done anything that bad. they're just a girl, or they're just x years old, etc etc. they feel immune to the accountability and they will not change until they accept their own fallibility and hurt.
>>43303985its partially this - nothing I did would make her even directly acknowledge what she did to me beyond vague fluff. "I fucked up" "you were right I shouldve listened" "it was a shitty thing to do", never anything that directly named the things she did, and its clear she doesnt view what she did AS what she did. but it's also a sort of learned helplessness acceptance of being awful. she may not be willing to acknowledge shes awful and cruel in that way, but she presents herself as knowing she is awful and cruel "even when she doesnt mean it". this gives her another excuse, because if she accepts that she just IS that, she doesnt need to worry about it, its now everyone elses problem to either acknowledge that she is like that and stick around or to leave. she has removed all agency and responsibility from herself.
>>43304064did you ever find out what she did?
>>43302467I'm trying really hard but I am so full of hate and shame and regret it seems impossible to every be at peace with myself, let alone love myself
>>43304103to people in the past? no. but for at least one instance I can guess, because its probably not too far off from what she did to me. she would just describe it as her "almost ruining his life". according to her the guy became hyperfocused on fitmaxxing and started to romanticize the concept of suffering and believe it was a requirement in to be a person
>>43304140interesting. it sounds like she's adopted this 'outsider' idea of suffering, and the resulting gains (no pun intended), as a way to establish an idea of what a perpetrator does after having been held accountable by others. she doesn't seem to have learned what you do after you "have fucked up" and are "caught" for your actions. it sounds to me like she's never been held to that standard. maybe she understands herself that she never learned these things (if she claims she's autistic it only validates my theory) but she also doesn't understand that she IS a perpetrator regardless.there's probably some misogyny involved as well, something about how she might find it harder to establish herself with that reputation because the average idea of a "perpetrator" is attached to a man and vice versa. maybe she even latches onto it in conjunction with her dysphoria to further validate herself as a woman. i dunno. it doesn't detract from the reality that she DID it. it sure as hell doesn't bring her (and especially not you) to justice.
>>43302467No. I don't think I will. Objectively I haven't done anything bad but I still think I deserve to die. I should have died when I was a kid, then nothing would have happened.Ok maybe I fucked up having a boyfriend by having noticeable erections in public. I must kill myself. That must have been horrible for him.
>>43304239>it sounds to me like she's never been held to that standardshe has. she showed me a long, seemingly sincere apology she wrote to a friendgroup that got sick of her. once more, not much too specific, but she at least has had people hold her accountable and expected an apology. it didnt work, which I suspect is partially a "this has happened too many times" thing partially the lack of explicit admission of what she did. from there she maybe felt that amount of """effort""" was pointless, even though really its not much effort at all unless you find saying "im sorry" to be extraordinarily difficult>if she claims she's autistic it only validates my theoryshe doesnt claim it but I am almost certain she is undiagnosed. alongside bare minimum attempts to hang out as a means to try to 'appease' me she would also constantly talk about things she did or was trying to do to "improve", all of which were completely unrelated to what she did and almost entirely insignificant. one such example was repeatedly telling me she was THINKING of getting tested for autism. I highly doubt she ever did.>there's probably some misogyny involved as well>the average idea of a "perpetrator" is attached to a man>in conjunction with her dysphoria to further validate herself as a woman.labeling men as the victimizing class and rejecting your own ability to victimize because women dont do that and you want to validate yourself as a woman is absolutely not misogyny, cmon now
>>43302467i will never forgive myself for making my self dysphoric and trans
>>43302467I think so
>>43304314i don't think there is a single victimising or perpetrating class. i disagree with the idea of a "victim" having a common denominator because it will fundamentally have exceptions and detract from the credibility of those who are classified as "exceptions". basically i mean that she sees herself as more victimising, and more justified in doing so, because of the above. but i'm not gonna dig into her head (especially because i don't know her).>she at least has had people hold her accountable and expected an apologyshe probably internalises it as "controllable" suffering that she can then "learn" from by avoiding the specific actions that she carried out to this friend group, rather than tackling or even acknowledging the underlying traits. she seems very emotionally immature (if it wasn't already obvious) but not immune to change, she just perceives that discomfort and accountability as an insurmountable mountain that she can dodge by simply changing her outward appearance.
>>43304502>and more justified in doing so, because of the above.yes she absolutely has extremely skewed views of who is actually capable of harm based off of gender identity. but she also acted as though she recognized her own bias' and fears and was actively working against them. she was not.>she can then "learn" from by avoiding the specific actions that she carried out to this friend groupI dont think this is the case. I think she truly does not recognize what she did wrong. when it came to me, when I tried to interact with her after the fact, she would constantly say and do things that picked away at the problem, things no one whos aware of what they did wrong and feels guilty about it would ever touch on without intent to hurt. shit on par with hearing your friends mom died and then randomly bringing up how much you love your own mom in conversation with them. >she seems very emotionally immatureabsolutely>she just perceives that discomfort and accountability as an insurmountable mountain that she can dodge by simply changing her outward appearance.also true. I think about it all constantly still and it just makes me angrier because she puts on such a front about being caring and kind. I know that isn't anything new but it disgusts me, even more so when other people dont see through it or simply dont care. people who actually give a shit and are willing to work on themselves are so extremely rare, I loathe the fact people like her are getting comfort and support instead of the people who actually deserve it.
>>43302467yepi accept myself wholly, forgive myself for repression, and blame every bully I've ever met for making me afraid to be me
>>43304641
>>43304641woops misclicked>I loathe the fact people like her are getting comfort and support instead of the people who actually deserve it.support from who? i would have thought that someone like her would ultimately be ostracised, or at least bouncing from friend group to friend group. either way i think it speaks testament to those people that they can't see through that kind of facade, rather than to her that she has the charm to win people over in spite of her personality.
>>43305120>i would have thought that someone like her would ultimately be ostracised, or at least bouncing from friend group to friend group.there are some people who stick around, presumably because they dont really know. not like shes going to go to them and divulge all the ways shes awful in a way that doesnt feign remorse. really I am just frustrated at the fact she can just pretend it never happened and other people will never know until she does it to them. and also the fact that I am here, struggling to find anyone I connect with and distancing myself from people who are awful to others even if its not directed at me, and ending up basically entirely alone.
diagnosing and pathologizing strangers on the internet is cool
>>43305183>I am just frustrated at the fact she can just pretend it never happened>also the fact that I am here, struggling to find anyone I connect withshe bears a curse, a ticking time bomb, that will one day blow up and put her in a situation that holds her accountable for her actions whether she likes it or not. entropy, fate, karma, whatever you wanna call it, it'll come for her if she doesn't change. maybe that's redeeming or vindicating, but it feels almost tragic to me that another person lets themselves become so detached from reality and especially accountability, that they effectively let themselves get hurt and possibly even abused, because they didn't want to confront the more uncomfortable reality of their actions.
>>43305462I would like to believe this, but there are both an absurd amount of awful people in the world who wouldnt think twice about her amoral character, and a lot of people with good intentions who would get duped by her, and she could absolutely end up with a good life without ever having to change or improve. even if she doesnt, getting your comfort and connection from a constantly shifting group of people is still more enjoyable than not getting it at all. unless I actually get my own 'happy ending' I will never have any reason to believe fairness or justice actually exist.
>>43305553thats reasonable. from experience, that happy ending never comes from something you expect, and it doesnt come as a wave. it comes when one day you feel like your life is noticeably 'better' than before. it probably won't last long, but it feels good to live in the moment with it. what else can we do?
>>43305634I will never accept anything less than 'what I deserve' and I have already had it given to me and then ripped away through no fault of my own. And getting that again would not be something so subtle that I would 'notice' it one day, it would have to be direct and explicit.
>>43305634>what else can we do?yap yap cuckold. enact justice yourself.
>>43305723ykw fair enough, it pisses me off that these people get away unscathed.
>>43305723>>43305789There just isn't a way to do it that people wont handwave away as you just being "obsessed" or getting some kind of criminal charge.
>>43305698i don't mean to say that you should settle for whatever crumbs you get out of apathy alone, but that the kind of salvation/'happy ending' doesn't always come in the way you expect here and now. maybe it will, and i think that's a privilege. i admit, it definitely won't be the subtle, silent change that's romanticised in shitty 'self-help' media, but i think that the steps up to that point more often than not fit that description.
>>43305835not unless you're conventionally attractive, charming and/or otherwise convincing that you make for a good 'underdog' that's 'fighting the witchhunt mod' or some shit
>>43305835complete submission, good boy
>>43305905mob**
>>43305868I already did the whole "notice the small improvements" shit for a long time. if I am able to lose everything in an instant because of a few people or even just 1 person, 1 person should be able to fix it all in a relatively short time too. I have no reason to accept any less.>>43305905it doesnt even end at just those things, you also have to consider the 'opposition'. if they can out oppression olympics you and are remotely attractive, you dont stand a chance even if you are on a similar level of looks/charm and have all the evidence in the world.
>>43305983>if they can out oppression olympics you and are remotely attractive, you dont stand a chancei hate how searingly true this is. i cannot fucking stand herd mentality. though i guess i can't live blackpilled and misanthropic forever.>1 person should be able to fix it all in a relatively short time toowhat do you expect out of this kind of person? not to sound disparaging, it feels countercultural to the things i know and have been 'taught' about people
>>43306077>though i guess i can't live blackpilled and misanthropic forever.I feel like I don't really get a choice in the matter unless I try to inflict psychosis on myself.>what do you expect out of this kind of person? Simple answer is reciprocity. Most of the people who have harmed me most, especially the girl I've been talking about, are people who were at their absolute worst but who presented themselves in a way that I viewed them as kind and good natured and I wanted to lift them up. No one has ever offered me the same.
>>43306201>that I viewed them as kind and good natured and I wanted to lift them up.it sucks when you lower and sometimes even ridicule yourself for someone else's comfort only for them to spit in your face and act like you're a moral threat to society. it left me feeling absolutely worthless and i barely made it out only recently.
>>43302467ya if Vegeta can be a better person and move on from his horrible past than i can to>black tranny
I'll never forgive myself, because when I was young my mother imprinted on myself, the idea that I was not good enough to be protected
>>43306451based dragon ball fan
>>43302467lol never
>>43302467>have you learned to forgive yourselfAfter years of internalizing the abuse I’ve been dealt by people once close in my life as well as by my own hand, and with the assistance of benevolent and professional psychologists in the field, I’ve managed to approach each new day with not only a more optimistic look, but with a sense as if understanding I’m not alone anymore; that I’ll always be there for that part of myself that has been suffering for so long and that we can get through every hell life may attempt to sentence us.I’ve most likely came out ahead compared to my peers in that I understand I don’t need to be loved by others to have self-worth: I need only love myself to be enough in this life.
after the nightmare i went through my entire life finally im getting a peaceful life where i dont hate myselfbut it feels so weird, i lost every single person in my social circle.i never even had a healthy relationship and im so fucking lonelynow my entire life is take hrt work to pay hrt then wait and repeat
>>43310240A lot of people tell me I need to work on the things that are making me miserable and angry but I know if I do the best I'll get is that same situation of complete isolation and going through the motions, day in day out. I just don't get the appeal.
yeah the tradeoff feels weird, i like the peace but it is so scary to go live my life now, im free but i feel like my.mind is still stuck in the pastand now after realizing that i have no one again but myself makes it even harder as a tranny in remission (even though its only in my head)
>>43302467I think one day I'll internalize all the things that were my fault that I don't recognize as mine and it'll be too late to forgive myself when it happens.
not really. everyone has left me for a reason, and my friends don't reach out to me or talk to me. I have to assume it's my fault and the pain that's caused has been unbearable.I don't deserve to be forgiven for being me, for being broken.
>>43302467forgiving yourself is cheatingself acceptance and (god forbid) love are much the same, narcissistic liesit's never one's own place to decide whether they are worthy of love, acceptance, forgiveness
>>43302467yes
>>43302467No i barely have a self to forgive. Things just happen becouse the world is terrible
