does estrogen transfer already existing fat to specific places or does it only transfer new fat? do I basically have to lose weight, start hrt, then gain weight?
>>43333905afaik your old fat doesnt get replaced it stays there until it leaves after god knows how many years hrt just gets the right fat growth going but its a gradual change so best bet is just to start now and work on new fat distribution while the old one slowly leavest. uninformed hon
>>43333905Adipocyte (fat) cells take up to 7 years to die and be replaced. For those seven years you'll still have some male fat distribution until all those cells with a male gene expression have died and been replaced with ones with a female gene expression (and location). So, no, you can't just lose all the fat and gain it back and have it be completely redistributed because of that. At least not for the first 7 years.
>>43333905old fat will slowly die off over about 10 years, at which point you should have nearly entirely female fat deposits. the usual advice is to gain or maintain (depending on how much you weigh) weight during the first year for breast growth, then to stay at a healthy weight, cycling up and down every few months to see how you hold the weight and of you want to settle on a higher base weight. alternatively you could take pio after year one to try and boost bottom heavy fat distribution but it seems hit or miss
>>43334208>So, no, you can't just lose all the fat and gain it back and have it be completely redistributed because of that.but i literally did
>>43334219You still have some male fat distribution then.
>>43334231if i do thats gigahopefuel bc i got an extremely feminine body from it
>>43334241fuck you cow you agp luckshit i hope your bf retroons and detroons over and over for all eternity
>>43334217>>43334208>>43334231I don't care about getting all male fat destroyed. I just want *enough* that'll give me an ass and hips and boobs.>>43334217I'm fat af rn what does that mean I have to do
>>43334291>what do i have to dolose the weight purely for your help and give the foidfluid time. it's a waiting game
weight cycling is a scam(all available evidence in cis people in negative and there's not a known mechanism that would make it different for trans people) it generally shifts some of your fat into sub-ideal locations. Just get the the weight you want to be at permanently while transitioning and then just wait there until the fat redistributes.
>>43334291afaik you should maintain during the first year for breast growth, then during year 2 start losing weight till your happy with the amount of male fat you have, at which point you should wait a few months before trying to gain some weight and see if you like how it distributes, but i’m mostly guessing
>>43334302yes obviously but will hrt have little effect on my body if I'm fat? do I lose weight now, start hrt, or should I start hrt now, lose weight
>>43334319No hrt works fine if you're fat
>>43334319nta but the marginal gains of starting hrt while skinny don’t outweigh the cost of starting hrt later. start now
>>43334321but won't the fat be "masculine" because others have said it doesn't move around existing fat, only new fat?
>>43334329fat gets replaced over time with new fat cells, In the first year you can expect around 15% of them to end up elsewhere
>>43334329read what the other tranny said dumbass. the cells are there whether you're fat or not, and you need to wait for them to naturally get replaced under a feminine configuration.
>>43334324Yup thisI tried to lose weight before starting hrt and ended up spinning my tires for 2 years, would have been better off just going on hrt earlier
>>43334219weren't you basically anorexic before starting hrt? if you were skinny your whole life you'll have less male fat cells
>>43334338oh right. I assumed the "masc" fat would hog the space and "fem" fat wouldn't be able to fit in
>>43334391ya i was, but ive been chubby before in life
>>43333905Your body constantly burns and adds fat. The big issue is that it prefers to add fat to existing fat cells rather than create new fat cells.
>>43334338You can actually induce adipogenesis through PPARy agonism. That's why some people take pioglitazone.
>>43334219>>43334241you fucking don’t you have a gross brick body that looks like it’s ballooning from all the grease
>>43334304>not a known mechanism that would make it different for trans peopleHmmmm… like adding exogenous hormones that induce different patterns for fat distribution? Fucking retard
>>43334757You can't just say hun dur the hormones, there needs to be a plausible chain of interactions leading to the effect, to have Mechanistic evidence
>>43334741>The big issue is that it prefers to add fat to existing fat cells rather than create new fat cells.so is being fat a W in terms of getting an ass and tits?
>>43334747she may be overdoing it but that's pretty harshshe's a luckshit and i can admire her dedication to a singular thing
I feel/hope most people here are working with the wrong model:>meaningful redistribution happens due to change in number of fat cellsWhile my asspull of a model may or may not be closer to reality:>normally, somehow, you get a distribution of fat cells that depending on the body area, responds differently to different hormone levels:>when cisf levels and calorie surplus: butt and thighs store more fat than belly>when cisf levels and calorie deficit: butt and thighs lose less fat than belly>when cism levels: vice versawhich is somewhat modulated by other factors>cortisol: generally more shit fat metabolism (vs muscle, and visceral fat storage)>shit genes or childhood environment or PCOS or idk: cishons that have male fat distribution patternif that's the case, that ought to explain why weight cycling gets results (one possible hypothesis)and it may provide sufficient reasoning to start HRT ASAP, such that you're in cisf mode as early as possible, and get The Good Thing happening even while losing weight (fat being lost preferentially from male-pattern depots)>>43334304>all available evidence in cis people in negativeI'd expect that - you're running on the same hormonal configuration while cycling (unless e.g. for men you go from DYEL to healthy non-sedentary male T levels, at which point you'd expect a better fat/lean mass ratio during weight loss and gain, hence recomp)>and there's not a known mechanism that would make it different for trans peoplecurrent fat was accumulated in cism hormonal environment, cycling happens during cisf hormonal environment, changing fat loss and gain priorities and resulting in changes to relative size of male vs female pattern depots?fuckery in the estrogenic or androgenic signalling system may complicate that somewhat, and that's often (but maybe not always) involved in getting an intersex brain in the first place, so YMMV
>>43334854If you didn't have much fat before, sure. If you do, then you want to instead exercise and just try and maintain/lose weight. Meds like pioglitazone can help your body make new fat cells but they come with risks (like all medications).
>>43334913>recompbrainfart, meant bulk/cut cycles here
>>43334241u still have a big gut tho
If you see posts by Cow or her alt name Snoymoder ignore them. Fat fetishists, fake science and retarded. Estrogen will encourage a female fat distribution over time. No, becoming obese won't meaningfully improve the result. No, taking Pio won't meaningfully improve the result. Yes, exercise and diet can improve the result. Please don't hurt yourself falling for this mentally ill psyop literally done by one fat tranny.
>>43334747cry lols
>>43334973I'm not cow. She's been taking pio longer than me and has been way more aggressive with weight gain while I've been adopting the maintaining weight approach since I more want to lose visceral fat than gain obscene amounts of subcutaneous.
>>43333905To answer your question, no. It'll recomp over time. You should be exercising to encourage a better figure though because estrogenized fat distribution won't be crazy unless you've been on for over a decade. Mileage may vary.I wouldn't try the DIY hacks that fatties like cow push. Not only is she just obese in a very masculine way, but the drugs recommended are just not good. You can't meaningfully use pharmacology for body sculpting purposes. Your fat distribution is ultimately unique to you. The amount of negative examples I see where girls just end up obese, or otherwise have a very unfortunate result despite taking Pio and high doses of Estrogen are very sad. Even if Pio actually 'worked' how people incorrectly assume, it wouldn't guarantee a good result for you. What does guarantee a decent and consistent result? Exercise and patience.
>>43334972ya well i think my bf wouldnt be as happy if i didnt.kinda impossible to be at my weight w/o one :p>>43334973youre literally schizo lols>>43334998oh did u just start? ive been on for ab a month :p
>>43334998Are you diabetic/have insulin issues Snoy? I wouldn't expect even a small result without that basic prerequisite being met. Pio's mechanism is based on that.
It is fairly obvious that cow is shitting up the board yeah. Non-retards aren't going to try to reinvent the wheel on some literal myth. Gross as hell
>>43335058okay you can say i shit up the board but dont say other people are me or i post off trip or other schizo shit
>>43335035Oh wait I assumed you were on it for like half a year like pawgliacci was. Nvm I've been on it longer than you but I cycled it at first to stretch it out longer and see how well it worked for me. >>43335046Adult onset type 1 runs in my family and I had some of the antibodies, but the mechanism works regardless of being diabetic or not. Similar reason why GLP-1 meds work even if you're not diabetic.
New fat only old fat stays
>>43335069No it doesn't Snoy :/ maybe you really are cow? Idk it's weird that you both shill it and ignore how bodies work I'm inclined to believe the schizo theory atp
>>43335058We have completely different approaches. Like I'm not using pio for weight gain, but for shifting fat from visceral to subcutaneous based on the data of a 16wk trial that saw adults with 26-29 BMI have their fat distribution shifted despite maintaining weight. Reading that was what convinced me since I genuinely do not want to gain anymore weight after having worked really hard to lose a bunch.
>>43335085girl theyre literally schizo they will never listen
>>43335077It treats T2 Diabetes by increasing insulin sensitivity. It still increases insulin sensitivity even if you're not insulin resistant (though there's evidence that I did have insulin resistance since I was formerly obese and found that my mood improved after starting pio, which has also shown some benefits in increasing mood in those with insulin resistance). What interests me more is that while my appetite jumped massively when initially starting pio, when stopping, my appetite didn't recede much, and when restarting again it didn't increase much either.
>>43335069I think you’re mixing up how the mechanism works with what it can realistically achieve in practice, because while Pioglitazone can make your body more likely to create and use subcutaneous fat cells, that does not mean it will selectively “pull” fat away from your gut or reshape your body in a controlled way. A simple way to think about it is like adding more storage bins to a house, it increases where stuff can go, but it does not force the house to empty one specific room first or arrange things neatly where you want them. In studies where visceral fat goes down, it is usually alongside overall weight changes or improved insulin function, not because the drug is directly targeting belly fat for removal. If you are maintaining weight like you said, there is no strong driver telling your body to actually reduce existing visceral fat, so at best you are slightly shifting where new fat might go, not fixing what is already there. The comparison to GLP 1 drugs does not really hold up either because those work by reducing appetite and calorie intake which creates a clear fat loss effect, while this does not create that kind of pressure on your system. So your logic that you can maintain weight and gradually trade visceral fat for subcutaneous fat is the weak point here, the drug can influence tendencies but it cannot carry out that kind of targeted swap, especially in a predictable or aesthetic way.
>>43335123this is why im fatmaxxing on it desubut also im just going off a chance i cbf to read studies on it
>>43335123The study I'm referring to was actually one where the participants maintained overall body weight and BF%. It drives the creation of subcutaneous fat. It's that adipogenesis paired with the body's constant draining and replenishment of fat reserves which causes the shift. The comparison to GLP-1 drugs isn't a mechanism of action one, but referring to how a drug used to treat a condition still has effects even if you don't have that condition, because the mechanism of action isn't dependent on having the condition in the first place.
>>43335143Also exercise and peptides for further visceral fat loss but I'm staying away from peptides for now. Reta looks interesting but I don't want to add yet another drug to the mix.
>>43335143yeah no i thought the whole point was that diabetes patients had significant improvement in health but didnt really lose weight because it pulled from visceral fat
>>43335135You should be aware that even in ideal candidates its effects are highly variable and not based on aesthetics. But also I'm tired of Pio threads. It's obviously not what people say it is but it's also your guy's choice if you want to take it despite the risks. It's never going to substitute diet and exercise when it comes to body contouring because even in the best circumstances its effects are highly variable and unpredictable. So personally I'm not doing it.
>>43335156Yeah, and I had plenty of visceral fat from being formerly obese. Like the push to start it wasn't to add to hips and stuff (which is nice, but really I need an iliac crest shave at the minimum to get the hips I want) but to further reduce visceral and accelerate fat redistro. It's worked well so far but I need to exercise more.
>>43335163>But also I'm tired of Pio threads.desu i just make blog threads complaining ab stuff or talking about my life, but i do contribute alot in every pio/fat related thread if thats wym
>>43335163I mean, yeah. It's not something to replace diet + exercise, but to supplement it. I also don't advocate for long term usage.
>>43335173honestly its so cool that it worked i prob couldve just done that instead of removing all of mine by getting extremely skinny
>>43335189I mean I got rid of a lot through diet and exercise alone but some is stubborn.
>>43335143I get the study you’re pointing to and you’re right that Pioglitazone can increase subcutaneous adipogenesis even when people aren’t actively trying to lose weight, but the step where your reasoning goes off is how that translates into real fat loss from the gut. The study shows a *shift in proportion*, not a clean transfer process, so it’s more like adding extra storage space under the skin rather than your body actively emptying visceral fat to refill those new spots. The “constant draining and replenishment” idea sounds intuitive, but in practice fat turnover is slow and diffuse across the whole body, not targeted, so without a strong signal like a calorie deficit or major metabolic change there’s nothing pushing visceral fat to actually go down in a meaningful way. That’s why in some studies visceral fat barely changes or the main effect is just increased subcutaneous fat and overall weight. The GLP-1 comparison makes sense in the narrow “mechanism exists regardless of disease” point, but those drugs create a large system-wide effect like appetite suppression, whereas this is a subtle cellular bias that doesn’t reliably scale into visible recomposition. So the mechanism you’re describing is real, it just doesn’t have the strength or directionality to produce the kind of controlled visceral to subcutaneous shift you’re expecting, especially if you’re maintaining weight.p.s. it bothers me, the study has an average of 32 BMI I don't know why people lower it
Pio killed my grandma okay??
>>43335198I would invite you to look at the results many people have posted in the pioglitterzone server because they do show a lot of high quality results, both in those starting from lean and starting overweight. In both causes, the best results are from combining it with good diet and exercise. There's a twinkmaxxer there, for instance, who has achieved incredible results both prior to and after starting estrogen, and it's thanks to a combination of pio and aggressive exercise.
>>43335246There are a lot of reasons you can't trust anecdotal evidence for fat distribution things in the first place but I would simply ask: how are they tracking their visceral and subcutaneous fat before and after?
>>43335246NTA, idk if I want Pio but I'd join. Still researching. Link?
>>43335264Measurements and overall body weight paired with photographs, typically. Not the most scientific but it is readily accessible information.
>>43335283:/ yeah I'm going to pass on that, thanks though
>>43335274https://discord gg/tVUkEdhx4It also has a bunch of other DIY experiments like topical E + P breast growth, corticosteroid creams, peptides, etc. alongside things like skincare and exercise.
>>43335298theres only one person on this server who actually has an ass everyone else is just honfidence
>>43335085What dosage do you use/suggest?
>>43336793Start at 15mg/day to see how well you tolerate it, and then go up to 30mg/day. Don't use for more than like, 3 mo at a time and make sure to watch out for the bad side effects. Exercise and take calcium + vitamin D supplements as well.
>>43336793nvm, just saw the discord
What it does is make fat cells in certain locations more or less hungry. The parts of your body that need to be more full are hungrier than the parts of your body that need to be more slight. Hormones control which areas are more or less hungry.
>>43338941this post made me so angry nice one
