>>43494063
Okay let’s be real: do you present femininely with maximum effort and still don‘t pass? That is all that matters.
No, you don’t need to 'malefail while manmoding', you just need to pass when you have put on your makeup, done your hair etc. People see what you show to them, they don’t see your naked face and body.

Now let me guess, you wear 0 make up, maybe you grew out your hair, maybe not, basically, you do fuck all presentation wise and just want HRT to magically turn you into a woman. Lmao

>>43494104
>Telling people who can't pass to socially transition is toxic and abusive, and you are a bad person for doing it. People like you literally ruin lives. You should feel deeply ashamed.
And no, there's a difference between actually passing as a woman and pity passing just because you got dolled up. People will coldly tolerate a hon who "put in the work" most of the time, but lets be real: no one wakes up and says "gee I wish I could meet an unpassing ogrehon monstrosity today, that would be so awesome".
Truth is, it's selfish and downright psychotic to DEMAND to be treated as a woman while not even remotely looking like one. It's genuinely stupid. Idk what kind of a little cope story you have to tell to yourself to ignore this truth, but you should at least stop spreading it to others.

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>>43494164
>Truth is, it's selfish and downright psychotic to DEMAND to be treated as a woman while not even remotely looking like one
That's why you need to PUT ON YOUR MAKE UP LIKE EVERY OTHER WOMAN. Jeez, you need to up your presentation to pass, it’s literally that simple. You probably don’t do your brows or anything, maybe skincare

I look like this and people treat me like a woman despite the fact I used to be ugly as sin and nobody would have thought I could pass. You need to EFFORTMAX

Just do MINIMA MAKE UP at least. Men love that 'no makeup' makeup look

>>43494179
I actually cried seeing your picure lol, girls looking like you don't even acknowledge my existence irl or they treat me like a retarded pet, again out of pity. You have NO idea what's it like to be me. None. We exist in two entirely different universes. This is why pretty passoids like you have no empathy for anyone, and this is why it doesn't matter what I say, you will just keep repeating your initial position (which is oddly malebrained but girls who look like you can afford to be malebrained).

>>43494239
you wouldn’t be saying any of that if you saw pre HRT pics of me. I'm sorry you cried and feel hurt but you can DO SO MUCH BETTER. Seriously. Give effortmaxing a try if you want to get to where I am at. I'd help you but I don’t have discord anymore

>>43494239
the only difference between you two is that she puts in effort and doesn't wallow in self-pity like you do

>>43494179
oh yeah u should def drop men and get in a monogamous transbian relationship with me [no polycule]

>sorry i'm straight
just pretend i'm your bf i'm the exact same thing but much better

>>43494468
rapehon spotted. sound the rapehon alarm!!!!
btw you're indistinguishable from a man when you say that shit and you will never be a woman x

>>43494179
Looking good, what age did you start HRT

>>43494063
why does everyone hate us

>>43494104
you are a horrible misogynistic person

>>43494480
wow incredibly mean spirited lol, all I did was hit on you and make some jokes

>>43494529
i'm not her
>>43494519
how is that misogyny?

>>43494543
Doesn't really change the point, lol.. just change hit on you to hit on her. But yeah, I agree with the other anon. You're pretty bitter and resentful. You're probably kind of a baby tran like less than 4 years of being a woman, you seem insecure with your identity. You behave like an attack dog and you police gender.

>>43494505
20. A month before 21 and I have been transitioning for four years now

>>43494449
Well I appreciate you trying to help, but is there even room, in your world, for people who cant pass no matter what? Do you have such a concept modeled out in your mind? Or do you just deny it? Do you believe everyone can pass with enough effort? Because believing THAT is just not in line with objective reality.

I literally just look like a man with long hair and make up. Without bangs, I look like a metalhead lol.

>>43494456
Same to you honestly your model of reality simply isn't the same as actual reality, so we have nothing to talk about?

>>43494468
Can you go chase somewhere else you fucking retard.

>>43494813
do your friends not know what you look like? If they didn’t think you could pass at all, they would not have hyped you up, no?
Answer me, what have you done so far other than take HRT? You really can’t just take HRT and expect to become a woman. It doesn’t work like that for 99.9% of people, maybe more. Presentation is about so much more, you should look up all the crazy shit Koreans and Chinese people do. At this point, it’s expected to put effort into your appearance regardless of gender or sex and you need to add MORE effort because you have to make up for masculine features, hide them, add feminine touches etc. Koreans get so much surgery, Chinese literally glue on nose shapes and put on a pound of make up until they are unrecognizable. The sky is the limit, but you seem to still sit with your butt on the ground, gazing at the stars and complaining that you weren’t just lifted up into the starry sky.

I repeat myself, if we use the same analogy again, I CLAWED my way from hell, not just the ground but HELL to a nice beautiful sky. You can do better. Don’t fall for manmoding and malefailing bullshit. People on here are autistic, asocial and retarded

>>43494871
You could have just answered my question. But ok yeah we live in two incompatible realities because you're a younshit passoid who doesnt even know what real dysphoria is btw. Oh Im sure you put in the work to improve you how you look because being a young pretty girl is playing life on godmode, but you also are delusional because you think everyone else can do the same.

Instead of RECOGNIZING HOW LUCKY AND PRIVILEGED you are, you cope by telling yourself that it was your "effort".

A woman can literally shave her head and wear mans clothes and everyone will still know she is a woman. Why do you think tunapoons as a rule dont pass? And that's even with T and facial hair cope.

>>43494179
Not OP, but how possible is it to pass without makeup, assuming skincare + brow grooming?

>>43495037
>>43494871
You are both right but you are also very stupid.

>>43494063
I'm not exactly sure what you expected here, OP. They're doing what people do to politely ignore someone who has turned themselves into a social outcast - doing their best to ignore you and to help you avoid them so that the uncomfortable subjects involved don't come up, and they can do their job and you can do yours. Honestly though, if you ever thought real life was gonna be like your weird internet hugbox where random-ass people who don't know you that well feel a need to be excited about the state of your genitals and sexual identity I'm not sure what to tell you. I'm not interested in the state of anyone's genitals or sexual identity, it doesn't matter if they're family or my best friend, what's in your pants and what you do in your free time is not my business and I don't want to know. Telling people at work is just heinous, because now everyone has to ignore as hard as possible if they want to keep their jobs and livelihoods.

There's a reason that people are supposed to keep the public subjects public and the private subjects private and you've just crossed that line in a way that might actually get people fired if they cross any political/HR lines, so yeah, they're gonna treat you coldly. No, passing does not make any difference, people have to walk on the same eggshells around attractive women in the workplace because of #MeToo and its associated political movements, its changed a lot about the landscape between men and women in the workplace and people can't afford to lose their jobs in (Current Year) because you can't always 'just go get another one'.

>>43495037
>youngshit
I literally started shortly before 21
>no real dysphoria
OHHHH BOY. I don’t know what dysphoria is? You listen to me now, did you start balding at like 15 years old? Did you lose most of your hair by the time that you barely left your parents‘ house at 20? No? Because I DID. And I was underweight and people said I had a barrel chest and wide shoulders and would never pass. You really just want to be coddled and have your pity party and most importantly YOU WANT TO HAVE YOUR BELIEFS AND EMOTIONS AFFIRMED.

But I'm not here to give you that. I'm the cold hard reality; the mirror looking back at you and telling you what could be or could have been if you simply tried harder. I wore a full face of makeup and wigs from the moment I came out to people around me, because you have to TRY SO DAMN HARD until you make it. You either have the genetics, the money or you have to break with your head through the damn wall and be stubborn enough until you pass eventually.
>>43495055
It's *possible* but unlikely unless you were genetically blessed. You can improve your looks a lot with brow grooming and skincare, but makeup will do the heavy lifting in terms of femininity

>>43494063
>people who fell for the coming out meme convincing someone else to fall for it
Many such cases, you hate to see it.

>>43494871
>If they didn’t think you could pass at all, they would not have hyped you up, no?
uhhh idk about that

>>43494063
Okay but are you sexually attracted to men or women? You don't need to answer, we already know from the post. What does that have to do with anything, you ask?

>>43494063
On the bright side you got a teachable lesson out of your negative experience.

hrt can fix balding, it does frequently
hrt cannot fix giant brick body and cranium that will never pass
effort maxxer above thinks her suffering is universal and therefore escapable through time hrt and work and it’s just not the case

>>43495141
You don't get it. Legal protections are just words on paper. I work a blue collar job. I you dont understand what that means, I can only attribute that to you being very young or a permaneet. You also sound like you're stuck in a 2015 ben shapiro sjw video, so kindly fuck off.

>>43495153
Thank you for taking the time to talk to me, and I'm sorry for being rude earlier. I don't think I can pass no matter what, but I will directionally agree with you ... all that's left for me to do now is be the best hon I can be.

>>43495526
Yeah it's always the people who started out as semipassoids and who worked hard AND had that work pay off who somehow assume their experience is universal. She does mean well tho. And she is directionally still right ... you just gotta do your best.

>>43494179
What do you consider to be minimal makeup just curious

>>43495536
I also work a blue collar job, I'm simply trying to inform you that this is a normal reaction by normal people in a workplace. They're not there to talk about your sex or sexuality, they're there to do a job. These are their livelihoods you're talking about, and the entire coming-out thing is a big political landmine right now. They're going to err on the side of caution and ignore it if they can or avoid it if they must.

Its not a Ben Shaprio video, christ. I'm just a board tourist from the outside looking in trying to inform you that you crossed a line there that you don't seem to be acknowledging. I know that's not why you created the thread, but I'm not trying to derail it or be hostile, its a discussion board and I figured you were open to discussion.

>>43495566
>light, skin-matching foundation
>undereye concealer
>additional concealer where necessary or where you like it (nose bridge, browbone…)
>mascara
>your choice of lip products
>optional blush/bronzer/contour/highlight

>>43495634
you dont have to believe me, but OP is actually a larp, a mental exercise what would likely happen if I was naive enough to troon out at my current job

>>43495055
I used to pass no makeup and buzzcut
Now i apply makeup every day and have long hair again because I like feeling pretty

>>43495536
NTA but I posted >>43495055
> all that's left for me to do now is be the best hon I can be.
FWIW, imo now that the cat's out of the bag, things can only improve from here. I do think anonette's advice is actionable, though. I wish I had the courage to even start HRT and manmode. I wish you the best of luck.

Sincerely, a repper

I will never even pity pass
I’m an opticsnuke faggot male
Detransition ig had the same chance of me passing
Sissy boomers pass more
I’m an efforthon incel-lite

>>43495746
Thanks. And please get on hrt nona, its better than repping.

>>43495153
People with no real dysphoria could never and will never do what you did
People who want escapism will continue to manmode and put no effort and still be men
People who don’t deserve the trans label wint understand you at all
I’m sorry you try so hard to convince some fake incel that you’re similar when you could never be even if they tried. Simply put your trutrans and they are t. Alas the world seems to confuse the two these days.

>>43494063
Anyone who uses the word "troon" is a racist freak. Why are you insulting people just for being 1/3rd black dude? You know that word comes from "quadroon"?

>>43496304
What do you have to say to people who do the work but still dont pass and get treated like shit for it? Change their fucking eyebrow shape?
Face it, your views on this are limited and informed by insecurity. For you, it's emotionally comfortable to believe that everyone can make it with enough effort because what is the alternative? The alternative is that maybe even YOU can no longer make it at one point. Maybe one day, effort will no longer be enough. And what then? SO you must believe, fanatically, that it's all about the effort.

Please instead be honest and admit that being an unpassing hon sucks and comes with limitations. It doesnt mean that people who are hons shouldnt transition. But it means that they're playing a different game. Is that so hard to admit?

>>43494063
yeap ahahahaha

theres a certain threshhold, like if you have an accepting family thats one thing, but you also have to reach a certain standard of femininity, if a normal person looks at you and sees anything remotely like a man its just over, they will never see you as feminine. just as some weird freak.

>>43494104
you are a retard, the difference between passing and not passing is not makeup. normies are stupid but not that stupid.

>>43496318
its a mixture with the word gooning you fucking retarded faggot

>>43494063
how fat are you

>>43496401
I’m not talking about hons
I’m talking about fake troon a who dont even try becayse they arent actually dysphoric and only enter the community like it’s a fandom of sorts
Then get surprised when they are nothing like the real deal and get nothing out if it and make themselves and everyone e else miserable
I’m talking about actualization cis people pretending they know what it is to be trans as escapism as some delusion as anything but when queried about their dysphoria the story gets full of holes.
Do you think those are worthy of respect or anything but scorn?
At the end if the day effort means minimizing dysphoria. If you aren’t doing that then is your dysphoria eveb real

>>43496469
you are genuinely a very low intelligence person. no amount of effort is going to make an unpassable face passable, only money will. i dont like being laughed at so im not gonna go put on makeup and go out looking like a crossdresser

>>43494449
Was it really HRT that did it? Or was it just you effortmaxxing? Seems like HRT does fuckall for passing

>>43494239
If you saw early Julie youd probably be humbled lol, shes changed a ton.

>>43494063
You shouldn't have allowed a group of hugboxing friends to hype you up and distort your perception of reality.
I was boymoding for like 5 years at my current company and didn't tell anyone that I was trans. Occasional failed attempts at girlmoding on my personal time kept my perception grounded and I understood that I couldn't pass until surgery. Then, once I had saved up enough money, I got FFS and VFS and voice training. I grew out my hair and styled it nicely. I changed my wardrobe and started wearing makeup. I passed well enough that customers on work calls just instantly gendered me female without thinking. And THEN, I changed my name legally and came out.

The reality is, at that point, it wasn't really boymode any more - everyone who I worked with regularly could already understand that I was trans and just hadn't come out yet. Once I did come out, coworkers still had some occasional issues adjusting to using my new name and pronouns, but it wasn't because I didn't pass - it was just because of inertia. Unfortunately, this will be the case even if you pass really well - people just have trouble changing.

As annoying as the entire process is, it's definitely better than being stared at and being alienated by everyone.

>>43496499
You might not like the answer, but it’s obviously both. HRT can take ages to work, literal 3-5 years to finally realize slightest changes and you have to improve your makeup and find your style all the while. You can't slack off too much or you'll suffer mentally, because the worse your passing, the worse you get treated and the more uncomfortable you feel
>>43496515
lol yeah but I deleted all my old pics aside from ones where I am literally a minor which I obviously won’t post

>>43496488
Are you trying to actually get surgery at least

>>43494063
hrtrep first, andromode if in a good enough env, move to more daring stuff if you start to malefail, or if you can move to a sufficiently supportive environment

>>43494104
>>43494179
I am 6'3" tall

>>43496697
>how to set yourself up for failure

>>43495055
open carrying something high caliber combined with a "respect my pronouns or yours will be was/were" shirt

>>43494179
worst poster ever

>>43494179
I can still see your masculine eyebrows behind your awful AGP bangs. How much effort did you say you put in again?

permaboymoder bros we cant stop winning

>>43496592
Best post in this thread desu

>>43495635
3 hours and 21 minutes ago but still
thats cakeface, not minimal makeup

>>43497178
so allergic to makeup it's crazy

>>43495812
We'll see.
As much as I want to take the plunge, it requires me to socially transition at work and at home, and that might be rough cuz everyone knew me as a male.
A couple months ago, an MTF joined my workplace.
She doesn't exactly pass - I'm not even sure if she's on HRT, but at the very least she socially transitioned before working. I envy her.

>>43496818
> open carrying something high caliber combined with a "respect my pronouns or yours will be was/were" shirt
Too bad I'm a Leaf

>>43495744
>>43495153
> I used to pass no makeup and buzzcut
> It's *possible* but unlikely unless you were genetically blessed.
I think if I started HRT, I'd get my eyebrows done and use makeup regularly, but it'd be nice if I could look at least vaguely female without it.

>>43496592
>I was boymoding for like 5 years at my current company and didn't tell anyone that I was trans.
I thought boymoding becomes impossible after 1-2 years. Did you really keep it up for 5 years, until your surgeries?

>>43496619
ive thought about it but the idea of dropping a downpayment on a house on changing my face which probably wont work is pretty terrifying. there is a level to this which is like, how much effort is taking too much out of me. like what if i get ffs and get bogged, what if i drop 20k and it doesnt do anything, then id be forced to detrans but id have a weird face. its a very scary prospect

>>43496592
trvth nuke, "coming out" is a stupid, narcissistic concept. because like others have said, nobody cares and nobody wants to know. the only thing people really respect is the physical reality of you looking like a girl, then they suddenly "get it" and are cool with you. nobody is cool with some guy saying he is a tranny and expects to be called she. its supposed to come completely naturally, you shouldnt even have to say anything because it'll be obvious. thats just how people process gender in reality.

>>43497313
Starting hrt is not some massive event honestly it's just the first step of a long journey. Coming out to people isn't such a huge change either btw because they will only really see you as a woman if you look and behave like one. I you don't they will basically forget about it. So, start now. Hrt is reversible for the first year or so, and even after you start getting results, most people have no way of framing them. For example, I manmode with fully developed breasts and do not bind them at all, and no one says anything usually because I look like a man, and men dont have breasts. Ergo, I dont have breasts. What's that on my chest? Idk I guess this guy is just unlucky to have gyno.

>>43497366
True. Like I said, I wrote the OP as a hypothetical psychodrama. I have not in fact came out at work.

>>43494179
arent you literally on the mittermiller page for before and afters?

also the sad part is that most people, men especially only take trannies seriously when they realise they want to fuck you. since straight men look at women through the lens of their sexuality. its ridiculous to think they would take you seriously as a woman without you having the allure. women are usually kinder about it because there is no sexual tension and they just see you as a neutered male.

>>43497470
>I wrote the OP as a hypothetical psychodrama
classic

>>43497276
well yeah, i have good skin so foundation is mostly pointless and it would be clogging my pores for nothing
same for eyeshadow
i literally never leave the house without
touching up my eyebrows with pen and gel tho

>>43497470
lmao okay

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>>43497556

>>43497470
The outcome of your hypothetical psychodrama mirrors my own internal simulations so there has to be some truth in it

>>43497635
she had ffs? with what money bitch. fuck

>>43497648
>>43497609
>>43497577
Sorry lol, I've been doing so poorly mentally that I unironically considered just coming out and changing my names as a sort of a desperate move, but truth is, I should instead just basically visually transition while nominally "manmoding"

>>43497672
I didn't lol
with what money haha
That is a different person or this person is deranged and made a deepfake
>>43497683
so I wrote all that stuff for nothing huh
you proved nothing, gained nothing, great
I will take this as a lesson never to try to help any tranny again

>>43497721
Idk who exactly are you, but this thread has been rly helpful for me. Your posts weren't for nothing.

>>43497470
I think I'll start, but how will I know if it's right for me?
Also, would you suggest manmoding/boymoding until the changes compound enough for me to start girlmoding? Do you plan on coming out at work one day?

>>43497987
>boymoding until changes
Well if we learned anything today, it's that the answer is "yes"
>coming out at work
I used to bind my breasts but stopped last summer, and I dont intend to bind at all now, and I'll just start to present more fem at work instead of just "girlmoding" at home. I would ideally like to switch jobs and careers completely.
So again I'd focus on what >>43496592 >>43496697 >>43497366 >>43497564 said. I would still add that you can be okay as a twinkhon who effortmaxes if you work and generally exist in supportive environments. They dont have to be specifically lib or lgbt coded, but it helps if they are more intellectual and not completely male dominated. So the opposite of my current job lol.

>>43498352
(cont.)
Also you probably noticed that stealth effortmaxers in this thread are extremely paranoid about being outed as trans. So in a way if you can handle being a twinkhon who looks reasonably good, you have an advantage over them because you *know* that you don't pass while they live in constant fear of being outed.

>>43497721
mb i thought you were her with dyed hair. she used to post on here

>>43498352
Thank you nona.
Even though this thread was hypothetical, it's been helpful.
I think I know what I need to do, now.
I just hope I have the strength to do it

>>43494505
lying like that is sadistic. OP is gonna believe your lying ass and it'll get worse.

>>43494063
i don't think it's about looks. i think you need to do it in the correct location, with the correct social circle. and this goes for a lot of things, not just transitioning.

>>43494104
When youngshits say "putting in the effort" they mean "getting groomed at the age of 8 by discord groomers"

We need to ban all HRT for children under the age of 35