As subject asks, I'm wondering from what line of thought does this idea persist? Is it from the fact our bodies, after transitioning medically (mainly from hormones I think) makes us trans people nonbinary because it's our physical reality or is there another reason that pertains to our own sense of gender? I feel like when people say that all trans people are nonbinary, it comes from the standpoint of our physical sex, having never experienced the body of our desired sex prior, therefore not experiencing gender in the same way, where we have lived two separate realities which somehow means our self can't be binary. Logically that makes sense, but from an identity standpoint it feels like a grey area. I also acknowledge there have been stuff said about trans people having androgynous brains, and I don't really know much about that.All that I know is that I Am a woman, even if I don't conform to traditional cishet standards for what a woman should be. It would feel wrong to say that I'm anything otherwise. Maybe sometimes I feel like I'm nonbinary, but that is more out of my general nonconformity and doesn't detract from everyone in my personal life knowing me as a woman in all practical senses.
>>43500362Tf are you talking about? At most people wrongly claim nb are trans. Iv never heard anyone claim it the other way round
>>43500378I have at least a few times and once even on here, it's a line of thought I can't quite understand entirely
>>43500424>but you should be able to understand that a man taking estrogen makes him 100% female
>>43500603never said that you troll lolI won't deny having been born male but that doesn't make me 100% a man
>>43500698trans women are 500% maleywnbaw
>>43500362Transgender people seemingly intentionally third sex themselves by using the term "transgender" instead of "transsexual" now. I don't know why they decided this was better, happened during the whole "sex doesn't mean gender!" thing they were testing out that they've since abandoned. But the transgender labels remains, and if you observe how many trannies act it seems like they are content with being a third sex.
>>43500722I don't think there's anything wrong with the idea of a third sex personally, and I think that's where these ideas come from. Sex is separable from gender and I dunno why people don't think this way still... Is it the younger generations losing track of former established thought or is it that no one continued to teach these things?
>>43500722>content with being a third sexThe best route is having a third gender since sex doesn't migrate.
>>43500722trans women are part of the male sextrans men are part of the female sex
>>43500816I feel like what a man and woman is is so unclear these days that I can't fathom why people wouldn't accept a third gender, especially when there are lots of gender ambiguous or "neuter" people out there
Id love to have conversations like this but everyone is so brainwashed into the "newer" way of viewing trans related people it can't be done here
>>43501146well you can talk to me about it and ignore all the trolls :P
>>43500799>Sex is separable from gender and I dunno why people don't think this way stillThe younger generation is now arguing that this is transphobic to say. I have been told this both on this board and in real life, that trans people are truly changing their SEX not their gender and that gender is linked to sex. >>43500816>>43500817These are radical ideas now.
>>43501254for the record, I'm almost 25 and am advocating for a distinction between sex and gender, I don't understand how that's radical at all, it's totally logical
>>43501254neither sex nor gender can be changed, ever>>43501299woman isn't a feeling men can have
>>43500799>>43501254It's purely adaptation to the ideological resistance we're up against changing.It made pragmatic sense two decades ago to discuss sex and gender separately, and it won a lot of gains (e.g. the arguments that if it's socially acceptable for women to wear men's clothes, it must be socially acceptable for men to wear women's clothes).But now the resistance to social liberty for transgender people is coming from an axis of "gender is fake, sex is 100% real though and you can't do/be XXXX if you're AMAB." So the ideology needs to change in response to defend existing and win new social freedoms.Ultimately though, the ideology is just a pragmatic tool for bringing more people into consensus on what we actually need. Which is freedom to do what we want with our own bodies, lifestyles, and aesthetics, without undue hardship (i.e. discrimination and stereotyping).We get caught up in the ideology we were born and raised into, and we do genuinely believe our own, idiosyncratic ideologies. But it's good to take a step back from all that baggage and look at, on the level of human emotions, needs, and desires, what the real goal is.
>>43501299I totally agree with you. I'm 30, the sex=/=gender thing is how I got onboard with accepting transgender people. But once again, the younger generation of queers and trannies seemingly agree with the same exact bio-essentialism that conservatives talk about. It's true what that one person said, sometimes people with conservative/religious programming grow up and apply that programming to things like feminism and you end up with people unironically calling themselves a wombyn and considering it empowering progress.>>43501310Yeah yeah, we know honey. >>43501364You don't realize that doing a hard sudden 180 like that is inevitably going to cause people to become confused and think the whole thing is just made up anyway. You can't just flip-flop like that with whatever seems convenient at the time. People aren't as stupid as you'd like to believe. They remember the "sex doesn't mean gender" argument and now you're telling them that's transphobic and wrong and they're going to feel betrayed. And that's not a good way to get people on your side. Consistent, clear communication is important and there is none in the trans community.
trans women are MEN
>>43501364I just hate the whole part where it's framed as an ideology rather than a material reality that people struggle with and need the proper care forI feel like we lose sight of that real goal because of this change of language
>>43501518I feel like real feminism has been lost in the general from today's general approach to things, I'm only now starting to read some more literature to feel some sort of understanding about what gender is and what a woman is without normative structures to define it... sighthe wombyn thing sounds hilarious though, people are all sorts of dumb huh
>>43500362Racist native americans They push this 2spirit nonsense
>>43500362It's difference. Man and woman are different. This is the source of the binary categorization. If you allow that trans people are different from cis women and cis men then the number of categories naturally increases placing us beyond the binary.
>>43500362>transitioning medically (mainly from hormones I think) makes us trans people nonbinary because it's our physical realityyou could say this about hysterectomy too but of course they don'tit's just a way to de-legitimize us
>>43504478they right thoughsometimes i feel like my masculine and feminine sides are two different people, like a brother and sister. the brother is young and brash and the sister is older and more cautious. i can't let the brother have control all the time because he will do do stupid and selfish things, but the sister casts doubt and hold me back from things i ought to do.
>>43500362They have their primary and secondary sex characteristics scrambled through medical intervention due to a culture obsessed with gender to the point of pathologizing gender non-conformity. So there's that.
>>43504841the medical intervention part is just normal care for people who would probably be very unhealthy if they didn't have it, like without hrt people would be dissociating all the time or wanting to off themselves more etc etc
>>43504630this is stuff said by other trans people as well, usually older I think
>>43504478as far as I know, we're not supposed to identify as two-spirit if we're not natives or related to any tribes ourselves
>>43504575that makes sense but it's just like they're both men and womenlike trans women fall under the "women" umbrella and trans men fall under the "men" umbrella they operate differently on a physical level but socially they're not separate categories
>>43500362cishet standards for what a woman and a man should be ARE the gender binary. so trannies objectively fall outside of it. no matter how you look at it a woman having a dick (at any point of life) is kinda abnormal and not under the normie definition of male and female where you're just one or the other with no deviation from the norm.that said nonbinary refers strictly to gender identity and not wether or not your experience falls within the gender binary so it's a kinda incorrect too verbatim misreading coming from the former. maybe we should of used a different name but i get the feeling most people misusing the term are very nuch aware what it's supposed to mean and are doing it on purpose. there's probably some room temp iq chuds who see the 2 terms sound kinda similar and assume they must refer to the exact same thing tho
>>43508191this makes sense, especially if it's coming from an older generation, like I can see it considered an antiquated way of thinking these days that trans people fall out of the binary if you're in queer spaces/circlesAre we just more advanced/looking towards the future than cishet society?? Is that why they can't ever understand us because they hold on to these old notions for how the world works?
>>43500362Highkey unless you are a gigapassoid mtf, you exist as the gender all theyfabs claim to be.(degendered third sex feminine woman thing)
>>43508826kinda cool and based in it's own way
>>43509483it is actually and i think at least 50% of clocky dolls say they "love" being transyeah it's hell and would be better to be cis, but it's interesting and cool and aura
