I've recently seen Finnster and pic related talk and post FFS results and I'm wondering.. is FFS even worth it if you don't already have androgynous/feminine features? I feel like what's the point of saving up tens of thousands of dollars to get minor improvements that make you instantly clockable both as a boy and girl? I'm not saying these two are ugly, not at all, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to change all that much..? This is blackpilling the fuck out of me right now..
>>43584945it takes 12 months for all the swelling to go down, so ignore any pictures that are not a year later.> FFS even worth it if you don't already have androgynous/feminine features?Yes, but you have to go to a good surgeon that will be aggressive in their approach. Dont go to facial meme and get this "light touch" crap, that does nothing. Also, some surgeons will avoid more aggressively technique, purely due to surgeon skill (tough techs are safe in the hands of a skilled surgeon)
>>43584945Finnster went to FacialMeme and also barely got anything touched. FFS is a collection of different procedures and can change them individually but can't do much to change overall facial dimensions without certain extremely invasive techniques.
Without much initial facial masculinisation, the results are minimal
>>43584945I spent an exorbitant amount of money on it and I still look like a man If you basically pass but have a clocky feature you want to fix it's worthwhile but otherwise it's just a waste of money
If we are to use mr prannk5ter as a reference ffs is great at making you look less feminine and more like a bogged shemale.
>>43584945>whay does ffs even doyour 80k donation supports the dr, his medical loans and his family
>>43588078this, op is looking at people that largely already passed and thus it will have more of a potential "beautifying" effect. for people that actually had significant facial masculinization it's a lot more dramatic.
>>43588722FFS is really good for those with good facial dimensions + clocky features but doesn't do much for those with bad facial dimensions and few clocky features.
>>43588727i think a lot has to do with the board's tendency to equate "passing" with what is really extremes of feminine beauty, kind of similar to how incel boards think anything but the top 1% of male beauty is worthless. like, not to be mean, but the woman i posted here >>43588722 is not necessarily exactly "beautiful", but certainly much, much more likely to be read as female.
>>43588727cant you shorten your face? what else matters?
>>43588911you can, yes. in some cases using rather simple techniques such as chin reduction and in some cases more dramatic ones like lefort osteotomies.
>>43588926i was talking about lefort but it isnt an ffs procedure so it makes sense
>>43588951Lefort and maxillary osteotomies are offered by multiple FFS surgeons. >>43588911Bizygomatic width plays a pretty big role. Also stuff like interpupillary distance. Overall head size matters a ton too.
>>43589004>Bizygomatic width plays a pretty big role.this is fixable.>Also stuff like interpupillary distancenot fixable, but also not really superdimorphic. like, the difference in the male and female average is 2 mm which is just not noticeable irl.the big issue is height, as this is by far the most dimorphic trait and not really able to be mitigated with surgery.
>>43589066Bizygomatic width can be slightly adjusted with zygoma reduction but that isn't always a viable option.
>>43589004>Lefort and maxillary osteotomies are offered by multiple FFS surgeonsDB wouldn't do lefort without there being jaw issues, not sure if Keo or Mardi would, i've not asked them>>43588727yeah pretty much
>>43589099again here we are talking about relatively small changes, like we're talking a ~5 mm reduction on both sides to approximate a female range.
>>43589004no way those things play a big role. youre talking about measurements with like 5-10% of dimorphism and a lot of overlap
>>43589146https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9554718/>>43589126It's about ratios.
>>43589164The only surgeon I've seen actually measure out and calculate ratios has been DB. He was also the surgeon that did Lily Tino's FFS so...
>>43589187Well Lily Tino is a gigahon who got minimal FFS because her entire brand is about being a disgusting provocateur so not really a great representative of quality FFS.
>>43589004I've only ever seen looksmaxxers fixate of midface ratio, fwhr, and ipd. (from one org user that was repping but would obsess over tranny looksmaxxing)
>>43589202Did she actually ask him to be minimal?
>>43589164what that study is saying is the opposite of what you're saying, that overall bizygomatic width is dimorphic independent of body size and thus reducing it alone would produce a feminizing effect.
>>43587675im getting my brow bone shaved at WIH in bangkok, mid and lower 3rd in korea. most western ffs clinics are shit because they refuse to touch your cheekbone leaving you still clocky asf
>>43589164>https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9554718/this doesnt contradict what i said and i dont know why they are putting it as highly sexually dimorphic lol
>>43589211Midface ratio is kind of a meme when it comes to passing, though it is correlated with things that actually matter like philtrum length. >>43589214From what I can find, yes. Like she didn't even get a lip lift.
>>43589244>From what I can find, yes. Like she didn't even get a lip lift.>Fucking your life up for a bit.What the fuck.
>>43589222I didn't say reducing it wouldn't have an effect, just that the effectiveness of zygoma reduction is dependent on other factors and it carries some risk when it comes to maintaining face structure.
>>43589251Seriously look at her before and after. She got a lot of the basics done but if she went to DB she should have gone for way more.
well some of you seem autistic about ffs my only real options are poverty ffs from my healthcare which I feel like will only have shit us surgeons, or going to korea which should I do?
>>43584945who's the tranny in the op and who did she go to?>>43589187yeah db is really good, but even like the top 5 us surgeons still have like a 50/50 success rate for ffs. a lot of people end up just as androgynous semipassoids even after ffs>>43589236why would you go to asia for forehead stuff, that's probably the worst place for it because asian beauty standards are weird
>>43589286There are some great surgeons that accept insurance tbhon, but most have very long waitlists.
>>43589266Does DB default on aggressive work, or do you need to push?
>>43589299His other work I've seen has generally been more aggressive. Tino's lack of lip lift seems like an utterly glaring mistake.
>>43589286do you speak korean and are you asian? otherwise, i think korea is okay for lower face if you dig the beauty standard there. stuff like type 3 forehead is bad in korea unless you can actually navigate the system and talk to surgeons in korean>>43589299he usually decides what to do himself and how aggressive he needs to be. which is why i'm surprised if lilytino convinced him to not be aggressive. but no amount of ffs would have saved her
>>43589298list them plz
>>43589432i think even db and keo accept insurance if you have insurance from big tech companies, at least that used to be the case before trump. i think keo has insurance providers that usually work with him on his website, iirc starbucks insurance _used to_ cover him
>>43589432Off the top of my head here are a few: Fan LiangSatterwhiteMittermillerRolfesWait times are really long and it's why I'm looking at alternatives. Right now I'm kind of hedging my bets on Elda Fisher who seems really good and I'm impressed with the level of care she seems to have when talking with her other patients. Her consult wait-list is like a year long and the others are 2+ years at minimum.
>>43589450how do Ik who is good, how do you research this stuff
>>43589491A lot of it is asking around and looking up results from surgeons unfortunately.
>>43589491you mean out of surgeons in the us? so the general consensus seems to be that db, keo, jumaily, mittermiller, mardi and possibly rolfes and spiegel are all top tier. in the eu it's honestly only facialteam that's good if they're aggressive as long as you go with dr captain, or whatever his name was
>>43589236Cheekbones arent clocky.
>>43588722I can't tell which is the before and which is the after but both look like a sissy repper chud lmao>>43589287>yeah db is really good, but even like the top 5 us surgeonsIs there a list somewhere of the top FFS surgeons?
>>43590007the ones here >>43589550 are the top ones, but do keep in mind that ffs doesn't save everyone
>>43584945why do 9 out of 10 agp tranners look like crispin glover
