How does one "feel like a woman" while, in fact, being a man?Isn't it the same as saying "I feel like a freshwater eel" when I was never an eel and couldn't possibly know what being born as an eel would be like? The closest thing to knowing what being an eel feels like would be my own fantasy based on minimal knowledge and shallow assumptions.Truly, an absurd notion.
>>44142591Nobody has an actual answer because it's just nonsense.
>>44142591Welp, when I have a cock up my ass or down my throat I dont feel very masculine...and it does give me some idea of what a woman feels like in that situation.
>>44142591You mean you’ve never met a manlet who acts like an effeminate bitch? Because that’s 50% of the way to being MTF.Now imagine the thought process inside their head. It’s probably pretty feminine.
>>44142726In that situation you're probably feeling like a faggot rather than a woman I fear>>44142741Once again, that's an effeminate man rather than an actual female-born woman. Imagining a woman's thought process is not the same as having it yourself.
this >>44139091 was posted earlier in another thread and it is pretty much what i would tell you, if i were to respond, here.
>>44142591I was raised by my mom and had no male role models, so I never learned what it meant to "be masculine." Still have no clue what I am desu
>>44142797You're a troubled man raised without a father figure, you're welcome.
>>44142591how do you "feel like a man", given that you've only ever been yourself and have nothing to compare it to?maybe you actually feel like a freshwater eel, but having never been anything but that, you can't recognize what actual men feel like
>>44142591This isn’t Reddit. You don’t have to be fully Monophysite about trans girls. Accepting them as 75% woman with 25% man is close enough.
>>44142591how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?
>>44142591would saying "my feelings about myself and my position in the world seem to align much closer to the feelings reported by women than those reported by men" sate your autism?
>>44142822The closest thing I look similar to is other men and genetically I am male, therefore the logical thing to assume is that I am a man and other males experience is the most similar to mine.>>44142824All men are 100% men and all women are 100% women by definition.>>44142833I don't have to imagine. I KNOW I would've felt hungry because I have missed meals and felt hungry before. However, I've never been a woman, so the only thing I can do is imagine what it might feel like from my male point of view that's obviously distant from the female reality.
>>44142591> while, in fact, being a manyou're just associating looking like a man with being a man because you're retarded.
>>44142591>How does one "feel like a woman" while, in fact, being a man?I would also like to one day see an answer to this.
>>44142726How is this not just full blown homophobia?You have no idea what women actually feel like.
>>44142816How am I supposed to know what being a man is? I can't relate with them, even when I try.
>>44142909not op but they are very much associated, unfortunately. you kind of have to live womanhood to be a woman, re: >>44142784. that does not mean that non-passing trans women are not or cannot be women, though; this is just obviously more difficult, and depends much more upon your environment.
>>44142591>How does one "feel like a woman" while, in fact, being a man?picrel. thus unshavedhons are men, everyone else is a woman
>>44142867You've got no clue how women actually feel because you aren't one.Human speech does not come anywhere close to perfectly expressing one's emotions, therefore your perception of womanhood is warped by language and your existing male bias.>>44142924Even if alienated by other men, you are still a man, just a different kind. Unfortunately your kind is often tricked into thinking you're something else for not following culturally established gender norms and thus further reinforcing them.
>>44142901>The closest thing I look similar to is other men and genetically I am male, therefore the logical thing to assume is that I am a man and other males experience is the most similar to mine.can you imagine anything that might make you feel like you were actually having the experience of an eel?
>>44142961Gender norms are good tho. Someone should be seen as girly if they act girly and transition if they are fully fembrained. You sound like a libtard redditor tbqh.
>>44142822>how do you "feel like a man"Because you literally are a man. Anything you feel is "feeling like a man".
>>44142967I can try and imagine what it would feel like, but (if you had actually read my initial post) you'd realize it would be a flawed fantasy no matter what I do, so I can never claim to know what an eel feels like and I obviously cannot claim to be an actual eel.
>>44142985that's not what I asked, I asked if there was anything that might make you feel as though you were actually having the experience of an eeluse your imagination
>>44143000>feel as thoughSo not actually.
>>44142983that's a bit circular though isn't ityou might as well say that someone always looks their age, because they are their age and they look how they lookhumans have an understanding that being a certain way by appearance is not the same as actually being that thing
>>44143000I can imagine being an eel by pretending to be missing my limbs and submerged in water.However, I cannot imagine the actual genuine experience of being an eel because that's not something that ever did or could happen to me so I have no actual point of reference.
>>44143006you don't have to actually be an eel for this experiment can you answer the question?
>>44143011>humans have an understanding that being a certain way by appearance is not the same as actually being that thingSo, kind of like how putting on panties and a dress doesn't make a man into a woman?
>>44143039that's right, crossdressing isn't the same as being trans>>44143017you can't imagine what an eel might feel though? You're only describing action
>>44143039living womanhood does, though, which is a facet of this issue, for some reason, that this thread is entirely neglecting to explore
>>44143026I'm not that anon originally. However, it's weird you think this is somehow a gotcha when your point has already been addressed. To answer the question, sure you could try and be "eel-like". But as the other anon said this would be a flawed fantasy as you simply aren't an eel and have no actual clue what they feel like.
>>44143058>living womanhoodNot possible unless you are biologically female. Even if you were "raised as a girl" from birth all of your experiences are inherently experienced as a male, because you are male.
>>44143051Yes, I cannot perfectly imagine how an eel would feel like because every attempt would result in a parody more than anything.My imagination works by composing fictional scenarios from my real past human experiences, same as everyone else's.Now, are you done with your kindergarten sophistry or are you gonna keep asking me the same question ad nauseam?
>>44143097we're using the terms "man" and "male" and "woman" and "female" interchangeably, though, which they are not
>>44143113Yes they are. A woman is an adult human female. A man is an adult human male.
>>44143123strangely, though, nobody in my life treats me as a man. the validity of these definitions seems more than a little dubious.
>>44142591dunnohow does one "feel like a man"?I didn't feel like anything until I used a female voice in my head one time and now everything is all fucked up but I certainly felt somethingI don't fully understand myself yet but it's like wearing clothes that don't quite fit right, uncomfortable but you get used to it and after a while you don't really notice anything other than a slight discomfort in the background. Then when you find clothes that fit better you finally see how it can feel when something fits right. Does that make sense?
>>44143134>nobody in my life treats me as a man>everyone is willing to play pretend to be niceSo? That doesn't affect reality.
It's really strange to see the "but I don't feel like a man either" argument repeated over and over again.Then what were you born as? A sexless blob of greyt sludge? Or did your parents keep your genitals a secret from you and addressed you as they/them your entire life?If you were born a man, then you feel like a man, no matter what it is you may be feeling. If your body or personality poorly compares to other men, it's an issue of upbringing and culture, not sex.
>>44142770>I fearfear not. I feel very feminine, especially when he tells me im a good girl. >How is this not just full blown homophobia?lol. what a cope or is it cop out? Me sucking cock doesnt make me hate gays. >You have no idea what women actually feel like.again more seething cope. As a sex haver who has had lots of sex with women, I do, in fact, have some idea of what a women actually think and feel in sexual situations. I dont claim to be a women, or understand everything they think and feel but i do have some idea of what its like to be in the women's position sexually.
>>44143147if you are not willing to extend to me the discursive decency of taking me seriously we are going to achieve nothing in this conversation. though i do not believe that you are here to have a serious discussion, anyway.
>>44142923I have no idea what any fag feels so what now? I'm not a fag then
>>44143232It's quite hilarious how you've effectively reduced everything about women's life experience to just being fucked by men.Transgenderism resulting in sexism more profound than actual misogyny never fails to amuse.
>>44143071>>44143105consider what an eel FEELS, not what an eel does. How does an eel think? If it's hungry for food, what kind of food? What kind of environment is it comfortable in? How does it move its body? What kind of mates does it seek? What kind of instincts does it feel?I'm not asking you to fully understand the life of an eel, just to imagine what being an eel would be like in a subjective way. If you can do that, then can you do the same for other animals? Can you do the same for a man, or a woman? Perhaps if you imagine what an eel feels, you can judge whether your own feelings and instincts correspond to that of an eel, or not. And then you can consider if your feelings correspond to other animals, or to other men, or to women, or whatever. This is called empathy.
>>44143179>If you were born a man, then you feel like a man, no matter what it is you may be feelingwhat if a man feels like walking on four legs and howling at the moon? Is this something that we would consider "feeling like a man"?
>>44143251>if you are not willing to extend to me the discursive decency of taking me seriouslyI am, however. I took your claim that everyone doesn't treat you as man at face value. And the correct response to that is that playing pretend doesn't change reality.
hi chuddy! here is a relevant hazbin hotel image for your post.
>>44143283Still yes. A human consciously pretending to be an animal is still a human activity.Doing so unconsciously is a human mental illness.
>>44143274>you can judge whether your own feelings and instincts correspond to that of an eelExcept you can't. It would just be an assumption. The problem is you aren't an eel and never will be. Therefore you can never, ever, know what it is to be an eel or experience it. Ever.
>>44143312>Except you can't. It would just be an assumptionunless you consider it, you'll never know whether you feel like an eel or like a man. You're making an assumption either way, because you've only ever been yourself
>>44143299no, that's actually not what "feeling like a man" means. Men don't feel like dogsif an adult man had a developmental disorder that resulted in him physically looking like a 12 year old boy, does he look like an adult man, or like a 12 year old boy?
>>44143332That is a mind numbingly asinine statement. You are a man. You are not an eel. The end.
>>44143351you are being intentionally obtuseunless you consider what a man is and what an eel is, how do you know which you are?
>>44143351Good luck getting through that thick skull of his.With each post it becomes clearer these people genuinely can't tell between reality and their own assumptions.>>44143345What you described wasn't a man "feeling like a dog" but him copying a dog's mannerisms as observed from his own viewpoint.Your second question does not relate to the topic because we're talking about physical unchangable things like species and sex, not mental states or age through which a person progresses daily.
>>44142591Why do (You) even care?
>>44143371You literally are a man. Thinking about it changes quite literally nothing. Stop huffing your own farts.
>>44143374>What you described wasn't a man "feeling like a dog" but him copying a dog's mannerisms as observed from his own viewpoint.no, he doesn't have to actually perform those actions, just feel the instinct to do somy second question is just the consequences of your own rhetoric. What if an adult man has a developmental disorder that causes him to think and feel like a child, rather than just look like one? Does he still feel like a man, or does he feel like a child?
>>44143375Oh I don't know, perhaps because the entire transgender ideology holds upon that question.The same ideology that seeks to brainwash and castrate gender non-conforming men like me, destroying any hope for an actual GNC-friendly society.
>>44143400>just feel the instinct to do soYou mean he feels a compulsion to do so. He doesn't have a dog's instincts, because he factually isn't one.
>>44143387why do you insist on avoiding introspection?if a black person grows up in a white family in a white community, do you think they would feel white, or feel black?
>>44143420Can you just say no and keep your balls untouched and be GNC? How are they stopping you?
>>44143286consider that those around me are not playing pretend; consider that coworkers have asked me about my menstrual cycle, or how it could be that i was not born with a uterus, when i reply thus to the question of whether i would have children.almost nobody in my life knows that i am male, and this fact is, anyway, immaterial: if i am treated as adult human females are treated, what does it matter that i am an adult human male? it means nothing to me. it influences my life not one iota.
>>44143427regardless, the compulsion to do so is not included in "feeling like a man". If a woman were to have that compulsion and followed it to action, we certainly wouldn't accuse her of "acting like a man"
>>44143436I'm safe because my brain is developed enough to recognize grooming when I see it.GNC teens and children (or "eggs" as you call them) however are not so lucky.
>>44143454>the compulsion to do so is not included in "feeling like a man"According to what? The male experience instruction manual?
>>44143459So only possible ways for males is to be GNC or non-GNC but never trans, correct?
>>44143431He'd certainly know he was black. And further different races have different average temperament, behavior and IQ. So, he'd probably be a very "white acting" black person. However, of course he wouldn't be white. He'd still be experiencing everything through the biology of a black person.
>>44143474if wanting to walk on all fours and howl at the moon is "feeling like a man", would a woman be "feeling like a man" by having that compulsion?
>>44143445>consider that those around me are not playing pretend; consider that coworkers have asked me about my menstrual cycleAgain, taking it at face value, that simply means you're good at tricking people. And that's cool and all, however you still will never know what it is to be a woman nor will you ever feel like one, because you're male.
>>44143483>biology of a black personomfg you're a fucking lunatic
>>44143483average differences, sure. But you're avoiding the question. Can a black person feel like a white person?
>>44143476Precisely.The more GNCs we have, the broader cultural gender norms will become, the easier life will be for future children of any kind of sex, personality or physical build combination.
>>44143496Not in the least. I know that's a touchy subject that you've been conditioned to freak out about.
>>44143497>Can a black person feel like a white person?No. Not in actuality. They will never know how it feels to be white no matter how "white washed" they are.
>>44143489No, "wanting to walk on all fours and howl at the moon" is a unisex experience. Next question.
>>44142591I "feel" like when I started taking E I felt better, and so therefore I would prefer to continue taking itseems reasonable enough to me
>>44143505Human brain is a weird thing and there are a lot of paradoxical process are going on there. Your assumption is purely ideological and you're not better than groomers you hate.
>>44143535ok, so there are sexed experiences and unisex experiences. What if someone had the sexed experiences of the opposite sex?
>>44143510What the difference in internal experience of biology between white and black people?
>>44143524why not? What if they spend a lot of time talking on the phone, or on the internet with people who believe that they are white? What is preventing them from having shared internal experience with white people?
>>44143554>What if someone had the sexed experiences of the opposite sex?That does not happen.If a human experience is unique to one sex, only that sex can experience it.If that experience is also experiences by the opposite sex, that experience is universal.
>>44143573what if you made a big list of all the experiences that were sexed, but then later discovered that a very small number of people actually had the experiences of the opposite sex?
>>44143558>>44143560You ever noticed how east asians are reserved and have high IQ? Ever noticed how black people are loud and have lower IQ? People will squirm and say it's because of cultural and social differences, but the reality is that it's biological. The races evolved separately for a very long time and evolved different traits.What OP is talking about is ACTUAL feeling of something, not just simply thinking "I feel like X". The actual feeling of something requires you to be it. ie. biologically a woman in this case.
>>44143553Right, because of all the infamous GNC groomer discords, of course.For wanting kids to fit in by being who they are naturally, I am truly just as bad as the doctors prescribing puberty blockers and crippling surgeries. How could I have been so blind?
>>44143628>You ever noticed how east asians are reserved and have high IQ? Ever noticed how black people are loud and have lower IQ? People will squirm and say it's because of cultural and social differences, but the reality is that it's biological. The races evolved separately for a very long time and evolved different traits.and yet there are violent criminal asians and intelligent peaceful africansand to "actually feel as something" does not require you to be it, that's why we're using the word "feel", not "be". You can feel like you're falling without actually falling. That's what a feeling is.
>>44143494i will level with you and tell you outright that i do not feel "like a woman", nor do i care to. this is fine with me. i do, however, believe that my life experiences are aligned much more closely with those of most adult human females (ie women), and that i understand the experiences of women. that i know what it is like to be even female, in most ways, barring the obvious. you could word this, if you wanted to, as "feeling 'like a woman'", though personally i find this to be anathemic.my whole point, anyway, is that one could conceivably claim such a thing with grounding in reality. i don't believe that those who have never lived womanhood can feel "like a woman" (if it is really true that anyone can, in a spiritual sense, which is not an issue i feel equipped to discuss), but i also do not believe that this is often uttered sincerely; it is simply a concept which is easily explained to someone who has never experienced gender dysphoria (which, for the record, is less a feeling that you *are* something, and more a feeling that you *should be* something: that your physical body is somehow incorrect, or whatever).
>>44143535"being perceived as or treated like a woman" is also a unisex experience, there are males and females who have experienced it. because the social experience of women is completely reliant on the perception of everyone around them, it is then possible that a male could have this social experience. in which case, it would not be unfair or inaccurate for a male to claim "i feel like a woman socially", and from there it wouldn't be that hard to match your social experience to your personal experience and rightfully claim "i feel like a (unusual type of) woman)"
>>44143431The uncomfortable truth is that there is no theoretical framework that allows for transgenderism but not transracialism. But people want to permit one and not the other.
>>44143654>"being perceived as or treated like a woman">perceived as>treated likeAnd yet the glorious "actally being" continues to elude you, so you resort to using LARPing as if it were a stepping stone to achieving real womanhood
>>44143650The problem is at the end of the day, they are a male. Therefore, cannot actually "feel" like a woman. Simply experiencing "woman experiences" means nothing as it's being experienced and processed by a male.
>>44143628>The races evolved separately for a very long time and evolved different traits.ah, the infamous "basic biology" crowd
>>44143687on the contrary, medical transition allows for the actual existence of transsexuals, while there is no such medical transition for race, unless you reduce race to skin color alone.
>>44143694that's because there is no "actually being", retard. under the definition that a woman is "adult female female" that categorically excludes someone who was born as a man. the difference is the vast majority of trannies (me included) don't actually give a shit. all of sociology and communication is just different degrees of larping about the synapses firing in our brains, who cares if this harmless variant of larping makes me happier
>>44143710People get surgeries all the time to look like another race.
>>44143726>that's because there is no "actually being">who cares if this harmless variant of larping makes me happierAh, the oldest trick in the book - denying meaning itself. The pinnacle of sophism and bad faith arguments.Well done, I really expected you to arrive to this point sooner.
>>44143741a better example might be michael jackson, if you considered race to be nothing more than appearance anyway
>>44143726>under the definition that a woman is "adult female female" that categorically excludes someone who was born as a manYes.
>>44142591Maybe but I feel like a woman and not a freshwater eel. You might want to talk to people who think they're eels and live as eels and compare. Helps to observe the subjects of your research in real life too.
>>44143772Is race anything more than appearance?
>>44143791>You might want to talk to people who think they're eels and live as eelsSo, a looney bin?Is that where you got your "knowledge" on being a woman too?
>>44143795does anyone actually think race is just appearance?
>>44143695but this, again, is where i take issue with the conflation of terms. my social existence as a woman (regardless of my literal existence thereas; we can say that i am truly a man, if you like) indicates to me that such a category is, in fact, not determined by sex, but by society, and societal interpellation. i have been made a woman by the people around me. i am a male, but i do unequivocally experience life (socially and, in many ways, corporally) in the way of most adult human females. QED sex and gender are correlated, but the former does not necessarily determine the latter. if we cannot agree on this, we will never come to any consensus, but i appreciate your engagement with the topic.for the record, just because we're talking about it now, i also believe that transracialism is legitimate: if you are black, but completely white-passing, do you experience life in the way that black people do? if you appear so unblack that it would be inconceivable to deride you with the "N-word"...is that word yours to reclaim? and if so, reclaim from whom, and by what oppressed right?not to speak for anybody, but in poc communities, being "white-passing" is pretty hot topic for this very reason. appearance affords you privilege. it affords you a life experience entirely divorced from that of your more darkly-colored peers.forgive the tardiness of this reply, if you would...there's no internet out here.
>>44143864>i am a male, but i do unequivocally experience life (socially and, in many ways, corporally) in the way of most adult human femalesNo, you experience those experiences as an adult human male, a man. Unequivocally, all of that is absorbed and processed by a male, a man.Man and woman are simply colloquial ways to say adult human male and female. Just like boy and girl are child human male and female. Attempting to extend "woman" to mean an "adult human male who successfully tricks others and those that know kindly play pretend" is a farce.
>>44143946>No, you experience those experiences as an adult human male, a man. Unequivocally, all of that is absorbed and processed by a male, a man.i made no claim to the contrary, thougheverbeitly
i don't feel like a woman, i feel like a me. being able to live as a woman makes me feel happier, more confident, more self expressive, more present. that is not feeling like a woman but that is what my womanhood feels like to me. i also know how it is to be perceived of as a woman, regardless of what someone might think i am in some essential sense, and so i relate to social experiences of womanhood and have feelings about that (often negative desu). so thats a way i feel about my womanhood too. i also have a relationship to my body that reflects the ways i have developed, which i would describe as distinct from how a man relates to his body and closer to what i understand other women feel in many ways. so thats another way i feel about my womanhood too.i could go on but you get my point - none of these are 'feeling like a woman' but they are all real and not explainable with a framework that imagines me as existing as a man. i know myself as a woman because i experience womanhood in these ways.
>>44143977So then going back to what the OP was saying is a male, a man, can never "feel like a woman".Trans distilled is simply, at best, "I am not a woman, I will never feel like a woman, nor know what being a woman is like, however I want to pretend to be one."
>>44143273>effectively reduced everything about women's life experience to just being fucked by men.>either cant read for comprehension or purposely ignored what I saidNo. thats you. I just said I could relate to women getting fucked and never said that was the entirety of their experience. Thats just disingenous sophistry on your part. try again.
>>44144004>but they are all real and not explainable with a framework that imagines me as existing as a manExcept it does perfectly, because all of that is experienced by a man, you. Therefore, it's inherently explainable. You exist as a man. And you will never not exist as a man.
>>44144023this doesn't really engage with anything i says. what you are saying starts and ends at>you are a manwhich idk i think is sort of a bit of a dead end. i don't think you're seriously taking time to understand my thoughts or reply to them in a meaningful way.desu i think you probably just want a reason to call a tranny a man which seems a bit unkind and needless
>>44143829Biologically speaking, race doesnt exist in humans. Only genetics. Talk to a biologist or read about it. What you think of as races are arbitrary categories applied to outsiders that vary by country and language.
>>44144032I read your whole post and understood perfectly. The problem is that it does in fact start and end with "you are a man", because that's the reality. It doesn't really need to go further.All experiences you have, even if most men don't experience them, are still experiences a man had. ie. You. And were processed by a man.
>>44144050a biologist will also say that species don't exist, but for some reason non-biologists don't take this to mean there's no biological basis for species.
>I don't think you're playing along with my make-believe self-proclaimed womanhood which means you're not engaging with my totally real and not purely emotionally-driven argument
>>44144050Race is just a very effective shorthand for genetics.
>>44144063i just don't think this is a serious perspective sorry. if you cannot even engage with the ways that my life differs from a man, or how the experience of being read as female for so long would effect my social reality or sense of self, then idk what to say. you are boring and not very thoughtful and i think you can't even do good transmisogyny because you don't want to think past>you are a manlike its just so boring. its like unseasoned broccoli its like...is this it
>>44143819Oh no not the seething ad hominem paired with a childlike/19th century understanding of how society works and zero capacity for self reflection!
>>44144088Say what you will about the 19th century, at least they didn't have a suicidal eunuch cult mutilating children every day.
>>44144079It's not though. You can't see genetics. "Black" is not a race. "Jewish" is not a race. "Chinese" is not a race. Everyone who maintains racial categories has a vested interest and cosmological hierarchy built on it.Human being are extremely homogenous genetically and you need to find isolated populations which are usually small in order to even start sketching out what you might be able to biologically refer to as a human subspecies which is the closest term biologists have for race.
>>44142726Encountering actual trannies in the wild turned me from a vaguely supportive tumblr goodie two shoes into someone who would never hang out with a tranny or even interact with one of social media. The post I'm replying to is a great illustration.
>>44144131suicide, cults, eunuchs, and surgeries performed on children have all been part of human civilization since at least the bronze age.
>>44144140you can categorize humans by genetic differences and it more or less aligns to popular understandings of race
>>44144141I greatly prefer outright enmity to "vague" support.
>>44144085>if you cannot even engage with the ways that my life differs from a manFrom an average man, not a man inherently. Because you're man and you've lived that life, therefore being a man does not exclude having the experiences you've had.>or how the experience of being read as female for so long would effect my social reality or sense of selfIf I whimsically think fire is actually cold, does that change reality? The undeniable reality is that you are a man. You pretend to be a woman. I will charitably believe you get "read as a woman". However as covered above, that simply means you successfully trick people. Or people are kindly playing pretend with you. But much like the fire, playing pretend doesn't make fire cold.
>>44144168yes, german and english share most of their letters.
>>44144010nonny i've already told you why i think this is incorrect. believe i am pretending all you want; perhaps i am pretending.the colors we can observe are produced by the interaction of light with the surfaces of objects and then with the little spheroid organs most of us have in our faces. which is to say that color is pretty arbitrary: it is determined by the environment of the observed colored thing. assume that, when in light from our sun, a given leaf is green. but this same leaf might appear brown, or yellow, or red, or some other color entirely, under different light. i'm not a physicist, clearly. but i am given to understand that the photic spectra emitted by different stars is different (not just the color of the stars themselves, which...), and so should result in different light. anyway consider this.what color is the leaf? is it green, because that is what you see? does it not matter what other beings (assuming they exist, and have our same optical organs) whose given green leaves are illuminated by other stars perceive? are you the arbiter of color? who is to say?i think that it is completely fair for you, as the observer, to determine and name the color of the leaf. the leaf is now me. you see me, and i am, to you, a woman, indistinguishably - you are tricked - does it matter what i "really am"? does it matter what color the leaf is? i argue that what matters is what you call it. what matters is how this induces you to treat it. you treat me as a green leaf, because to you, i am green.
>>44144148And all the letters you used in your post could be found in Mein Kampf.What's your point, dumbass? That your tranny cabal gets a pass?
>>44144140Empirically, you can easily tell there is a substantial difference between black people and asians. This is why race is still an effective shorthand.
>>44144178>perhaps i am pretending.Of course you are. In some ways that's alright, and in others you really shouldn't be.>does it matter what i "really am"?Yes obviously. The fuck lmao.
>>44144154No it really really doesn't. You can debate who is and isnt part of racial categories all day long which is why "are x white" had to become a banned thread template on your home board.Like to pick a very specific example "white" encompasses people who have bronze brown beige tan red and white tones, "black" can refer to anyone from an off white color to the color of coal. "Asian" can refer to practically anyone. There are ethnic minorities in western Burma that are as dark as africans and have curly hair but genetically much more identical to chinese and Koreans, appearances can be deceiving. Europeans were actually black until about 8000 years ago, which we know from corpses preserved in peat bogs and ice.
>>44144189you are an uneducated american normgroid lmao.
>>44144202red and orange are different colors even if two people disagree on where red turns to orange
>>44144197>Yes obviously.why?
>>44144189i disagree on the grounds that they can mate and make offspring. meaning any differences are superficial at best.
>>44144180Yep, it's arbitrary to single out and focus on us for any reason and inevitably you'll realize it and get bored and go away. Or start taking estrogen one of the two.
>>44144214Different as of what point in human history and culture and what language, because "orange" is a pretty new color word and also a fruit which is itself a man made mutant of the rough lemon crossed with a mandarin (or a satsuma) and grown in the new world to help british and Spanish sailors not get scurvy. And meanwhile the Greeks thought the ocean was purple and we can prove that people literally don't "see" colors they dont have words for. That is, they consider them shades of other colors.
>>44144221This is the much simpler way of refuting race but technically subspecies exist in biology which is basically 2 populations in a a state of drift where they're different enough to be genetically distinct but still cross fertile.
>>44144219Well because you're a man. It matters because it's reality. Reality always matters.
>>44144303Edit: I misused the gouldian term drift here i didn't mean to include that
>>44144221They aren't superficial. While the physical differences are obviously apparent so are the readily observable differences in behavior, temperament and IQ.
>>44144306Circular reasoning is like the cry of the defeated chud being raped by merciless conquerors. Ditto for anyone who says "lmao" or any profanity in a serious argument.
>>44144327Europeans used to think asians couldn't develop technology further because they weren't christian. Despite using algebra and gunpowder weapons. Now the US is trying to embargo china to keep it from surpassing it and europe is behind both America and Asia in terms of R&D.
>>44144331That isn't circular reasoning. Reality is what is. To make effective decisions you have to accept what is. The question was if you were successfully tricked into thinking a man is a woman, why does that matter, with the implication of isn't that enough to be a woman. And no, it's not, because being a woman is an inherent thing same with you being a man. Further answering the question of why does that matter is you don't have to go farther than it's reality. There is naturally a near infinite additional reasons, many smaller and only relevant in specific contexts like say specific medical care and others larger like not being able to bear children.Of course it matters. You could argue socially it doesn't but that's not entirely true either.
>>44142591i don’t like terf arguments because they ultimately reduce the whole social reality of all people down to whether they impregnate or get pregnant which whatever right but then they go in and say that like “you can be a different kind of man” or whatever but then call everyone who tries to be a different kind of man some kind of agp or larper for living in their personality because no man would act like that because their biology is wholly “organized” to reproductive roles. it’s all a bunch of bullshit. one time i got really close to these people writing this stuff while i was fully drinking the koolaid and when no one else is watching they will devolve into gender essentialist stuff telling prototranssexual women to man up and hang with men or telling prototranssexual women to recognize their inherent femininity or some thing like that.
>>44144407sorry the second time i said prototranssexual i meant prototranssexual men i am on laughing gas lol
>>44144394whose reality? the light of your star is such that you observe me as green. certainly my grandparents observe me as brown, perhaps. their light does not permit my being green, despite their love for me, and that's fine. but social reality, as the colors of the leaf, is not objective. it is very, very much subjective. i am beholden to the expectations and restrictions of women in my society: i applied for a job as a stocker at a local store and was instead offered a position as a cashier. there were zero men employed as cashiers at this store, and zero women employed as stockers, though some were given those duties alongside cashiering. some weeks after i was hired, the store hired a stocker, who was male. and then another, some weekd later.i am observed as green. i am told by the world that i am green. my reality is green. it does not matter that my grandparents observe me as brown.
>>44144172i've not lived that life at all, i never lived as a man. i lived as a sort of not-quite-boy then a tgirl and now as a trans woman
>>44144394The only thing you mention here that isn't "reality is what I say it is" is that ability (and willingness) to have children are important for relationship compatibility. Which, yes I agree. Not sure what that has to do with sex or gender, there's tons of medical conditions that have a similar impact.Also "near infinite" is an oxymoron. What you actualy mean is that its finite but you don't know how many cases there are which makes sense since you're actualy talking about a specific and pretty narrowly defined circumstance. (Trsnssexuality being strictly relevant for seeking a relationship)
>>44144468>whose reality?Stopped reading.>>44144483>The only thing you mention here that isn't "reality is what I say it is"Stopped reading.Reality is objective and immutable. Only people butthurt by reality deny it. Cope, essentially.
>>44144535i wasn't very interested in continuing this discussion either way but you should not admit to your interlocutors that you are so intellectually indigent that you will not engage with their arguments :(
>>44144141lol. the funny part is that I am not a tranny. your assumptions betray you...
>>44144141>even interact with one of social media>The post I'm replying tolol
>>44142591Instead of getting aroused at fucking women, they get aroused by being the woman. So they want to act out that image of what a woman is in their head.
>>44144535Well anyone can not read stuff and be stubborn and/or shitty if you were secure in your beliefs you wouldn't be heated and emotional about it afaik
>>44144588You come across as a gay guy who is one bad day away from trooning out, and you already say shit trannies tend to say.
>>44144544>>44144827"dude whoa what is reality mannn" is not worth bothering with. Pseudo-intellectual masturbation.
>>44145054"what is reality" is an essential existential question that many people much smarter than i have been asking for quite a while nonny idk what you want me to tell youanyway i'm not even asking you to question reality, but acknowledge the subjective perception (ie that i am female) of reality (ie that i am male) by individuals which produces the constructs (eg gender) that we all must interact with
>>44142591reduce to absurdity blah blahyou realize smarter people than you have been categorizing and practicing these patterns of argument, on way more interesting stuff no less, for hundreds of years atp?
>>44145054Right but I didn't say that. What i said was "reality is what it is" is circular reasoninf. Which it is. The other person you replied to whose post began with "nonny" was the person you were alleging denied the importance/existence of reality. I am a strictly categorical objective thinker hence why I was getting technical about whether race is a aocial or biological category and red vs. Orange.In our exchange you said, and i'm paraphrasing, that birth sex is relevant for deciding who you date due to the capacity for sexual reproduction. And my response was that birth sex isn't uniquely determinative in that regard (meaning it isnt the only fact that can cause someone who outwardly looks compatible to not be compatible.)
>>44145304>circular reasoningIt's not. At most you could say it's tautology.
>>44145194>acknowledge the subjective perception (ie that i am female) of reality (ie that i am male) by individualsSure. >which produces the constructs (eg gender) No. Words mean things. Successfully tricking people does change reality.
>>44142591I only was able to feel like a woman after living as one far from my environment as a man. Before that it was just dealing with dysphoria
