The one continuous issue that I've been having with the little bit of sunni literature that I've been getting through, especially related to the biographies, is this constant reminder that this is THE way to live, and if you're not attempting to follow each of the examples set by the sunnah you are drifting further and further apart from goodness itself, and if God forbid you try to deny or argue against the fact that it is the superior way of life in comparison to the countless ones that have formed the whole of human history you are automatically deemed a Kaffir or a heretic at the very least. There's not much room for the experiential, the phenomenological, or for mere curiosity even, and it's a constant exercise in games of Purity solely based on textual evidence as opposed to exalting in the sublime as you would find in, say, a desert father's writings. Not to say that there aren't examples of the latter across islamic literature, as that's sufism in a nutshell, but the fact that they are largely and uniformly deemed as misguided heretics, and that the actual hadiths themselves explicitly argue against trying to find your own inner path through the skies tell you all about the mindset that is encouraged right here. Basically, I'd like to know how muslim thinkers balance this forced dismissal of ''the other'' with the actual experience of life itself. How does someone as brilliantly daring as Ibn Arabi find it in him to continue to hold that way of life as the unquestioned path to the Truth? It all seems so incredibly reductive to me that I find it revolting at times. Are you really supposed to accept that 98% of all of human existence is nothing more than the devil's plaything? I'd have no issues with it if it were a complete rejection of the world, as you'd find in Gnosticism or in Theravada Buddhism, but it's the 2% that really puts things into question here. I'm not writing this post out of malice or anything of the sort, as God is my witness I'm only doing it out of pure bewilderment, and I'm more than willing to call myself ignorant on these matters. Why didn't I post this in a more muslim-friendly corner of the Internet? Well I'm not really here for proselytizing, and I've come across a good number of very sensible Islamic threads on this board over the years believe it or not. If there are more of you well read muslims who have already been through this spiritual rigamarole, then please guide me with some useful books on this matter. I have no issues with untranslated material.Al Ghazali also sucks btw. The guy that I've enjoyed reading the most is this turkish Said Nursi fella, who was at the crossroad between a rapidly modernizing ataturk-driven society and the rotting corpse of the ottoman empire. Cool stuff.
>>24680620I’ll put it this way. You are looking for philosophy in Islam when Islam is at the end of the day a fancy legal code. Outward practice is more important than inner belief; the person who prays 5 times a day but who doesn’t believe in God is a better Muslim than the person who misses prayers but believes in God.There was a hardliner in Saudi in the 1970s named Juhayman who was a true believer in this stuff (Islam). He didn’t even eat chicken until an analysis of the hadiths confirmed that the consumption of this poultry, although not something done by the Salaf themselves, was still acceptable by them (something along the lines of the birds being considered halal). That is the ultimate Muslim.
>>24680635Well I'm not sure if I would call it *just* that, but as far as legal codes go, yeah, it's very impressive. Too impressive in fact, as it seems to be extremely difficult to put into practice, which may be the point according to certain interpretations, as it keeps the individual constantly striving for a betterment of his self and his own life surrounding it. That example you've cited is quite extreme, even within the realm of the already hardline salafist school of thought, but if I could do you one better I'll cite the issue of Photography, and more specifically taking photographs of beings-with-souls (humans and animals iirc), which is still disputed amongst hardcore salafists to this day, and is still exemplified by the masses of young salafis who will refuse to take photographs of their own selves or wouldn't post them online without blurring their own eyes, as that's what was advised through the sunnah's dealings with illustrations of the day. I won't immediately dismiss this as foolish as other anons might do, as I can see a point being made about photography exacerbating an individual's narcissistic drives or facilitating the availability of indecent material, but that typically isn't the main reason why it's forbidden in the first place. It being immediately dismissed before even attempting to study and bathe into the process that is this novel way of interacting with sacred properties of the world is what's concerning desu.Somebody once summed things up very well by stating that Islam is concerned with preservation, and not concerned with Being, and I'm sure that there are many muslims who would readily agree with that since it's perfectly in-line with the reasoning that this finite world is nothing more than a transitional place of strife and tests for one's soul before moving on to the eternal realm. But the issue remains for those who continue to find joy and illuminate their souls by dealing with the mysteries of this realm. Everything seems to already be a settled matter in mainstream sunni thought, and as much as I like many core components of Islam, this is going to keep bothering the hell out of me. Maybe it's a matter of different divisions of the soul scattered across the world. I don't know.
>>24680635>the person who prays 5 times a day but who doesn’t believe in God is a better Muslim than the person who misses prayers but believes in God.This isn't true. A person who nevers prays but believes in God and His messenger enters paradise eventually. Any who don't believe will only be in hellfire>>24680620The Sunnah is not as limiting as you think. If you learn fiqh, you know some things are obligatory, some things recommended. I don't see how fiqh limits curiosity, barring the salafi opinion that reading alternate philosophies are forbidden for those without knowledge.If you mean living and acting out alternate philosophies, then anything not forbidden by the Sunnah, or encouraged by it is fine. You can be a Stoic muslim for example, a person who seeks to control his emotional reaction through guided principles, but you're forbidden to believe God can't be angry
>>24680708To believe is to pray. If you do not pray, you are not a believer. If a muslim refuses to pray, he must be put through the Istitaba by the legitimate sharia state, and be exectued if he still refuses to pray. There is no questioning this.
>>24680708>If you learn fiqh, you know some things are obligatory, some things recommended. I don't see how fiqh limits curiosity,The problem is when you account for the sheer amount of things that are outright forbidden by said fiqh. You can't even tell a fabricated joke without expecting hellfire in the afterlife. I'm not trying to be facetious here, but you can understand why this seems a bit daunting for someone in current year.
>>24680635>Outward practice is more important than inner beliefThere you go. That' exactly what Islam is. Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, but you have to practice all those Hadith codes, otherwise you aren't a true muslim. Early Islamists understood that without these practices Islam will die within a century. Hence the compilation of Hadiths and binding of the muslims.
>dogma but western :|>dogma but sandy eastern :O
>>24680620>anon discovers organized religion
>>24681019>Doesn't matter if you believe in God or notCome on now
>>24681091Most organized religions historically aren't as rules obsessed as judaism/islam, or even christianity. Just show up to the temple a few times a year and burn your offerings, anything beyond that isn't required or even necessarily expected
>>24681393you don't know anything about other religions
what's with the uptick in islamanons lately? Are they here to bash israel and then just get bored?
>>24680788It's not that hard, nor is it as particularly strict as the salafis would lead you to believe, especially for newcomers or women.If you believe in God and His messenger, and keep firm that belief till you die, you will be safe, especially if you tried your utmost best to be better and gain more Islamic knowledge.If you fear hellfire even if not eternal, do good deeds everyday and pray it outweights your bad deeds. In a hadith, a prostitute who fed a dying dog was forgiven by Allah due to her act of kindness.A person who dies on the road to Hajj, for the sake of Allah, will have the reward of Hajj despite not completing it. Likewise, if you die on the path to imitation of our Prophet, inshallah you will be with him in the hereafter.
>>24681361What!? You know that' true. Muslims always reiterate the same fact that you need to fear allah, otherwise you'll burn in hellfire. To save yourself, you need to do this and that, that and this. Too much outward practices often make a person empty from within.
>>24682061Even if you drink beer, become muslim anyway. There is hardly any sharia court today who will flog you for it, but even if there were, if you drink in private without harming anybody else, no one has the right to harm you for it but Allah. And He forgives all sins.Even if you watch porn everyday, become Muslim.Seek forgiveness sincerely each time you do, even if you commit the sin multiple times a day, seek forgiveness from Allah every time. Allah will always forgive you if you are sincere. Stop the sin gradually as it is hard to give up. Don't boast about it, nor joke about it by posting memes about "gooning". Be ashamed and care for your own wellbeing.
>>24681753NTA but for the first time in a long time, mostly spurred on by tiktok. Muslims under the age of 35 actually think a bit deeper about their faith. Some doubt it and become atheists (almost everyone I know under the age of 35 is secretly atheist and only outwardly Muslim, they will probably only admit this when their parents are dead) but a big part of the other side just goes deep into Islam, actually reading the texts instead of retardedly reciting text with 0 understanding. A lot of young Muslims are now worried and feeling empty because they find out if you actually delve deep into the literature there is a lot lacking. People seek for meaning and spiritual development and enlightenment and Islam leaves a lot to be desired in this front as most of the text is about "do x" instead of explaining the spiritual significance of x.This is in contrast to Judaism and Christianity. In Judaism there is a similar focus on rule following but at least there isn't an actual force in the religion preventing you from spiritual development. It's actively discouraged in Islam. In Christianity they went the other direction and embraced the spiritual development side of things, only the gnostics were deemed to be too far into that realm.Buddhism is in a way the polar opposite of Islam. Almost an entire focus on the spiritual development of the self with an active force trying to prevent you from focusing on the outward practice.There's a reason why for example in Saudi Arabia the rich Arabs are becoming atheist as a sort of show of how enlightened they are in a status symbol sort of way. It's not because they actually care about atheism. It's because they consider Islam to be anti-intellectual as you can't actually explore yourself under its rules properly.Other societies have people become Christian instead.Honestly I think the current mood and mindset under young Muslims will most likely cause a reformation of Islam like how the protestant movement started. There is too much of a demand for spiritual enlightenment among the youth for the religion to not have a massive breakthrough. It's either that, or the religion will die out once the elderly die and the younger generation takes over and doesn't feel the need to fake their Muslim religion affiliation anymore.
>>24682123I think you live in an echochamber. And your description of Buddhism is false.
>>24682123What on Earth are you on about, the most popular Muslim TikTokers are 0 IQ specimens like Mohammad Hijab. Muslims as a group are more fanatic now than ever, Salafism is at an all time high in Europe, Africa and South Asia.>Saudi ATHEISTS Apostasy is punished by death in Saudi, and most Muslim countries have some form of punishment for such things. As for Muslims converting to Christianity, where?You are far too optimistic. There will be no moderation, no spiritual exploration. The fate of the Islamic world is roving bands of Salafi jihadists battling it out for the rest of time.
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>>24682138This is just retards hearing some random vaguely Islamic speech on tiktok and counting it. You know this is true if you ever interacted with """muslim""" youth in 2025.
>>24682149millenials became less religious. gen z muslims are the most religious young generation in probably 80 years of muslim history https://www.arabbarometer.org/2023/03/mena-youth-lead-return-to-religion/
>>24682140I agree with more religious observance because the trend we see is people being more interested in Islam, reading it. And the issues only start BECAUSE of higher observance. Like I said people are looking for spiritual enlightenment. Only after reading many text like OP do they do things like move away from the religion or consider it to be anti-intellectual and in need of reform. Meanwhile most boomers just recite passages without even realizing what they are saying and just engaging in ritualized behavior without any understanding or spiritual significance. Of course the young generation consider themselves to be higher observance even though that "observance" is precisely what will lead to Islam radically changing soon.
>>24682181They probably mean listening to the quran which a lot muslim youth do. as for listening to readings of religious texts by scholars, ages who attend are around 40-60 in my part of the world at least.>""muslim""A person does not lose the status of muslim if he sins
>>24682189What would you describe as more religious because that is the crux of the question. Am I and the OP more religious because we actually read Islamic texts and literature and thought deeper on it out of interest? Or are we less religious because we have genuine questions about the religion and engage in acts technically discouraged in Islam?Do you see the paradox here? Gen Z is more like me and OP and way less like the older generation that just blindly followed dogma. It's because Gen Z is in need of spiritual enlightenment which traditional Islam doesn't provide. Hence why I think Islam will have a reformation moment, or will die. It just can't survive in its current state because only the older, dying generations are "classic" (just follow rules without thinking) Muslims.
>>24682190>consider it to be anti-intellectual and in need of reformIslam in itself is intellectualism. Salafis especially think highly of free intellectualism and thought. that was their whole schtick. they were against blind following(taqleed)Among the Atharis were Ibn Al-Qayyim, Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn Hazm. Among the Ash'aris, Shah Wali Allah Al-Dahlawi, Al-Ghazali, Fakhruddin al-Razi, Ibn Khaldun, Ibn Rushd.Our generation is probably the generation who read the most Ibn Hazm in history. If Ibn Hazm isn't curious or is anti-intellectual. Then i don't know what he is
>>24682202>Gen Z is in need of spiritual enlightenment which traditional Islam doesn't provideWhat does "spiritual enlightenment" even mean? That's such a vague word to throw around and I can tell that if I start naming books, you'd just deflect and say they don't qualify as "spiritual enlightenment">just follow rules without thinkingif this is your idea of what islamic intellectualism is, you are 100 years behind. Muhammad Asad said the exact same thing in 1934 in Islam at the Crossroads. The very people that this anon (>>24682136) hates are the ones who broke tradition and reformed Islam.
>>24682206Ibn Hazm thought that ALL blind following was haram for everyone, not just scholars. Most muslims, even traditionalists(ash'aris and maturidis) believe blind following in aqeedah(theology) is haram. that a person has to be utterly convinced of theology instead of blindly following their shayk.
>>24682211Though I must say, there is no such thing as reform in Islam, only tajdid(return or revival). When salafis broke the paradigm of following four madhhabs, they viewed it as a return to the original muslims who had no madhhabs, but followed the sayings of the Prophet with independent strands of understanding(fiqh) much like how each of the companions had differing views.Islam is a reactionary religion, it does not evolve like catholicism, if anything, it always returns to its former state. In a sense, OP is right to say that "Islam is concerned with preservation". But he is wrong in saying it is not concerned with Being. We are preserving the correct way of being. The justifications for why and how come after we have set everything clear and straight from the sources.
>>24682215>traditionalists(ash'aris and maturidis) believe blind following in aqeedah(theology) is haram.I should add this is an issue of dispute among traditionalists. Al-Ghazali for example believed laypeople shouldn't partake in Kalam(speculative theology) because most of them don't have to capacity to. So for him, it is the job of the scholars to make sense of everything, and for the laypeople to accept their conclusions.Salafis on the other hand take the position of resignation in the case of Kalam. They think it is futile, and that the theological statements of the Qur'an and hadith should be taken at face value without interpretation(Bila Kayf). Of course, in arguing in favour of this, (proto-)salafis like Ibn Taymiyya and Ibn Hazm used Kalam in debate
I think this anon's reply from a two year old thread might help, in case you want to talk more on this later (as a fellow sunni muslim struggling aswell) then hmu on discord : zantoouwu
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>>24682382Al-Albani, the famous salafi, was the only muhaddith of his century to scrutinize Sahih Bukhari, albeit he didn't publish his findings. There is a sense that Salafism in its essence is modern or heavily influenced by modernism, which is true. It rejects established authority. But now they just built a new one around Saudi scholars, and make taqleed of them
>>24680620Ibn Rajab's Excellence Of Knowledge is interesting in the way that you break every knowledge down into categories: Linguistics, theology, speech, mathematics, astronomy, history and you contain in them individually the whole science without other elements. But the essence is that proportionalism is needed. Really all he says in the book is to collect a library about early Salaf, take knowledge from their words and interpret their meanings and intention. Really it's that simple and if you want words from other subjects to take knowledge from do it. Proportionalism in knowledge can be a problem but ibn Arabi and other great islamic teachers had gnosis and a highly developed skill in a single knowledge. The question isn't about a way of life but if you want more knowledge in a skill than required. Because in the truth of it knowledge is what changes your way of life and perception. And keep in mind brother knowledge is Allah's so if you want more do dua inshallah.
>>24682123>>A lot of young Muslims are now worried and feeling empty because they find out if you actually delve deep into the literature there is a lot lackinginteresting take anon, where is the base of your knowledge coming from? are you first gen Pakistani-Canadian and 19? how do you know such things?
>>24680620fuck off back to your containment zonesand monkeys not allowed outside /pol/
>>24682376>>24682379>>24682382>>24682385It feels strange to realize that a small I participated in a while ago was remembered, saved, and brought up again by somebody else, a real person, for their own personal use. I'm not the anon in those screenshots, but I was there in that thread.Anyway, I still think that the parallels between protestanism and salafism aren't as strong as what's been suggested. Perhaps the real issue is that the core of salafism runs at such a complete-countercurrent to all of which is held in high esteem in contemporary western thought that it becomes utterly shocking to unearth for people who already grew up in a westernized environment, which includes pretty much everybody. It is not based on an anti-intellectual attitude per se, but it is a concerted intellectual effort to dismiss and topple a lot of core foundations in people's minds in a very radical and at same time rather dry way, eventually circling back around to variations on the theme of ''there is no use in doing all these mental exercises''. Pic related for example does find fertile grounds for comparison between Ibn Taymiyyah and Wittgenstein in regards to their attitudes towards Language and Meaning, two radical thinkers who try to make the same point about ''there is no point in trying'' after a lot of reasonable effort.There's also the major issue of historiography in Islam and people settling with oversimplifications regarding highly significant events in the development of the islamic civilization. How many scholars can say that they have a thorough understanding of the downfall of the Abbasid empire for example?
It's interesting that contemporary islamic philosophers who don't follow the typical clerical path are completely and utterly dismissed as useless fools or shills by the larger community. People like Abed Al Jabri and Mohammed Arkoun. They have next to no chance of having any influence whatsover on their respective societies, other than the tiny academic circles they already hang around in.
>>24683567>comparison between Ibn Taymiyyah and Wittgenstein in regards to their attitudes towards Language and MeaningSo true. Seneca also has somewhat of the same attitude
>>24680620Its the abrahamism brainworm. The same thing you find in evangelicals and sometimes tradcaths
Check 'gits
>>24682115I want to really complement your beautiful description of God's mercy and striving for moral perfection.>>24680788Catholicism's guides to sins and forgiveness could help here. Sins are divided into mortal (deserving of Hell) and venial (deserving purgatory) and the former one must Confess before taking Communion. A mortal sin is full knowledge and consent and gravely wrong (hard-core porn, getting drunk) whereas a venial sin is lacks one of these but has others, e.g. drinking one or two extra glasses of wine not on a celebratory day / feast day or lying or stealing a pack of gum. Venial sins are forgiven at Mass every Sunday but mortal require the Sacrament of Confession. Moreover, Christians must avoid mortal sins and those seeking perfection must avoid venial sins. A Catholic in a state of grace, has the Holy Spirit dwell in their soul (no unconfessed mortal sins and baptized) that is, God essentially enters you and perfects you. From my own spiritual practice, seeking to cut out venial sins is IMPOSSIBLE without daily Communion. For any Catholics reading, I am using casuists (Escobar and St. Liguori) for defining venial sins here as their statements on alcohol are most similar to a Muslim reader whereas contemporary moral theologians believe that venial sins of the body are based on one's conscience.
>>24680620>Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).Pope John Paul II's 1998 encyclical on how Faith and reason work together. It's a great document.https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html
>>24682136>Muslim TikTokers are 0 IQ specimens like Mohammad HijabHe has a bigger lexicon than you will ever have.
>>24682206>Islam in itself is intellectualismThe fuck hahaha, you cannot be serious.
>>24683542You may not like it, but your grandchildren will either be muslim or married to a muslim man.
>>24683567What a small world we live in, that Anon's reply was very well-put together that I had to save it.>>Perhaps the real issue is that the core of salafism runs at such a complete-countercurrent to all of which is held in high esteem in contemporary western thought.There's no contest in that, I may also add that salafism presents itself as a countercurrent also to that which was/is held in high regard within the arab world, in terms of custom and culture so to speak, where many large aspects of it get heavily scrutinised under their presumable criterium, one example of that would be the whole debate which is currently ongoing about the legality of celebrating Al-Mawlid, where I live it happens that some of our traditional and cultural celebration also undergo such a scrutiny, so it is an all-out rallying against anything that's out of Mohammed's zeitgeist so to speak.>>but it is a concerted intellectual effort to dismiss and topple a lot of core foundations in people's minds in a very radical and at same time rather dry wayThat's literally what anti-intellectualism is imo, rejecting any/all tendencies that go against the conventional "metaphysical" view, the salafist worldview chooses to exclude 1000 year's worth of metaphysics and philosophy, that which emanated from merging with Persian/Greek influences, in favor of a run of the mill cosmology, and that is not the problem in itself, but rather the tendency to negate any/all attempts at understanding Islam in a different light, hermenutically speaking.Because when you think about it, whilst proto-salafist thinkers like Ibn-Taymiyya did concentrate on the critique of Kalamists and those heavily influenced by greek philosophy, those who came after, and in a more travestied and degenrated manner, the current "salafi" does not spare mysticism either, and it seems as if even that spiritual connection to the Divine, the meditating of its many manifestations within the tangible world, that which is considered to be the essence of religion, doesn't escape this torrent of ignorant negation, this sacred ignorance.
>>24685208The epitome of Islam is knowledge."When Allah wishes good for someone, He bestows upon him the understanding of the religion" Bukhari 71Notice how it says *understanding* of the religion"Seeking knowledge is an obligation upon every Muslim." Ibn Majah 224"Whoever travels a path in search of knowledge, Allah will make easy for him a path to Paradise. People do not gather in the houses of Allah, reciting the book of Allah and studying it together, but that tranquility will descend upon them, mercy will cover them, angels will surround them, and Allah will mention them to those near him." Muslim 2699"Verily, the angels lower their wings for the seeker of knowledge. The inhabitants of the heavens and earth, even the fish in the depths of the water, seek forgiveness for the scholar. The virtue of the scholar over the worshiper is like the superiority of the moon over the stars. The scholars are the inheritors of the Prophets. They do not leave behind gold or silver coins, but rather they leave behind knowledge. Whoever has taken hold of it has been given an abundant share." Abu Dawud 3641>but the hadith mean islamic knowledge specificallyIslam is submission in every part of Being. So psychology, medicine, science etc. informed by Islam is islamic knowledgehttps://www.abuaminaelias.com/forty-hadith-on-knowledge/
>>24685276Interesting that none of those are from the quran
Since this is now a /Sunni General/ any of you moderate islamanons care to reassure us about Surah 5:33: what are we in the west to make of this?Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land is death, crucifixion, cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, or exile from the land. This ˹penalty˺ is a disgrace for them in this world, and they will suffer a tremendous punishment in the Hereafter.
>>24680635>You are looking for philosophy in Islam when Islam is at the end of the day a fancy legal codeYou are a midwit if you think metaphysics is separable from the political/legal. Start with The Republic and Aristotle and make your way through Machiavelli and Montesqiue down to Vico, Kant, Hegel, and Voegelin.
>>24685215You may not like it, but your entire family will be wiped out by 1 IDF missileHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>24686445so islamic law and metaphysics are both retarded, k.
Akhi, listen to the words of my brother in Gaza City.I am a Shia, he is a Sunni, and I tell him this.That I try to promote Islamic unity despite sectarianism.Here is what he says to me, the perfect response:The Ummah is about hearts, not labels.This is the truth to understand.
>>24687016>I am a ShiaIn Gaza? Really? How many of there are you? Is Sunni-Shia tensions a thing there, or does the whole Israel thing take precedence? Is the Dogmush clan actually dangerous or is it a LARP? Is there any hope for the communist/socialist movements to make a comeback in Palestine? Sorry for bombarding you with questions but I am curious
>>24687028I would need some more proof that a shia in Gaza is currently posting on horse trading forum.
>>24686139It means all those "muslim" rape gangs in the West should be crucified for their hiraba(banditry)
>>24685275I think that what's more telling is our maintained presence on this retarded website after so many years kek. But I will say this: I cannot claim to truly comprehend traditional salafist literature and fiqh because I have not read any of the 6-book long codexes (think ibn hajar's futh-al-bari) that are typically devised on these matters from cover to cover, which means that there are many nuances in the classical thought of the 4 madhhabs that are lodged in my blind side. The grammatical and syntax focused efforts on exegesis/criticism such as al-jurjani's works were fairly arduous efforts as well, and should make the case for a throughline of a serious intellectual tradition within ''convential'' islam, away from the sufi order of inherited knowledge.I think that ultimately, the crux of the issue lies in the panicking over the clashing of this once insular world with otherness ; or rather, otherness that has been springing up from within, which has never really happened in islamic societies before. It was always either a captor/captive sort of situation, or a gradual acceptance of islam by foreign societies, but never a growing sense of detachment from within. You can understand why a tradition that is wholly concerned with Purity managed to take a radical left turn in order to protect and preserve this proverbial pearl, which is this one, undisputed path to the Truth. That's why every single possible veering out of this path gets swatted away. There was a shock that struck the collective mind of the tradition once the enlightenment's trailblazing machines turned everything upside down, as it laid the ground for the first real, non-hostile, phenomenological contact between the (culturally) christian western tradition and the islamic one, with the advent of muslim generations growing up in a deeply westernized environment. The east is another question altogether. Those two contexts orbit around two axes that are opposites to a degree that's not even funny, and it gets worse when you're always playing the blame game regarding what exactly got us to this point.All I can say is hold onto God's mercy and bathe in the light of his wisdom wherever you can find it.
Reminder to all muslims itt that Jews have won. This wouldn't have been an epic btfo without muslims posturing about being good warriors and all. Oh well, I enjoy the coping :(
