Wondering if anyone has any good books or stuff to read to understand some of the older religions of EuropeMostly to learn the general facts about themI also want to know more about how and why Pagan religions were conquered by Christianity
the fact that most pagan priests saw in Christianity a fulfillment of what they had been asking shows they long stopped knowing what they knew of their own doctrinesModern paganism is a total larp.
The best book on norse religion is Myth and Religion of the North by Turville-Petrehttps://ia800508.us.archive.org/34/items/TurvillePetreMythAndReligionOfTheNorth/Turville-Petre_Myth_and_Religion_of_the_North_text.pdfDirect download from archive.org
>>24681932Or was it that jews propped up christianity and gained a following and then made everyone submit or be conqeured? And yeah of course most "neo pagans" are fags i know
>>24681964the Anglo Saxons could have easily massacred the Christian mercenaries, they converted on their own will.If anything "the joos" would want to prop up pagans to undermine Christendom, and then cause the Muslims to invade. The Christians had a far worse relation to Jews than Muslims.
>>24681970*missionaries
>>24681924Read books by Ronald Hutton and Claude Lecouteux
>>24681924Pic related is the best place to start.>how and why Pagan religions were conquered by ChristianityThe why has two points. Firstly, native religions don't have the same structure as christianity, which is a creedal ideology centred on organisations. Native religion at the time was about traditional customs and ceremonies, not a creed, so there was simply no widespread awareness at the time that an organisation would try to control their mind, much less use extreme political and military pressure to do so. The closest analogue would be Roman attacks against the order of the druids, but that was a political move done to stop Celtic organisation and resistance. In short, they didn't know their enemy - the entire worldview was too alien for that. Nobody called themselves a pagan, that term just means 'not christian', synonymous with gentile. Their world was defined by tribal bonds, not an ideological 'brotherhood' like christianity.Secondly, christianity got going in the first place because Greco-Roman civilisation failed and failed hard. They were already in religious crisis for many centuries. The Romans destroyed their original religion and obviously copied Greek religion very early in their history, and the only remnant is the myth of Romulus. Roman priests weren't even religiously authentic, they were politicians who got elected to the position to climb the socia ladder. Greek culture fell to a degenerate worldview most clearly seen Parmenides and Plato, with its heavy emphasis on static being. This philosophy is far more in line with the judeo-christian worldview, and indeed Plato's influence on the hebrew bible is well known. It didn't begin with them though, this increasingly inorganic view was a development over thousands of years and was strongest in the eastern mediterranean through to Persia.[1/2]
>>24681924start with the greeksalso i've actually been planning to dive more into shinto recently as I think that's actually somewhat close what european paganism was but continued as a tradition and is still active now
>>24682687As for the how, first it gained power in the Roman Empire by being an ideology of salvation for the downcast - remember that Rome was the original globohomo empire and its society was full of rootless slaves and urban poor. Like all powerful organisations it began to rot as it increasingly removed upward mobility and local communitarian relations. Then by the time of late Rome there were civil wars left and right and emperors needed to shore up a power base. Constantine was the first in a long line of rulers to try and exploit christianity to shore up his power base. He also did the same thing to the Mithraic mystery cult that was widespread across the empire especially in the army, and many christian rituals to the present day blend mithraic rituals into them. He made christianity the official religion of the entire empire, and it wouldn't be long before christian rulers enacted laws of destruction against native religions, and there were also many riots, sacks, and local power struggles (e.g. in Alexandria) in the final days of the roman empire. Once Rome was gone the prestige of rome hung around, and many kings wanted it to boost their own egos. The church exploited this cultural power along with a monopoly on classical education to appeal to many kings that essentially cared about nothing more than their wealth and their egos. At the same time they sent out missionaries to try to convert nations, and these missionaries often straight up lied about what christianity was (see the Heliand as an example of these misrepresentations). Once they gathered a few of these kings it was spread via politics even harder, including violently - subjugation of their own people, forced conversion as treaty stipulations, and crusades. Christfags will lie and say crusades were only about defending Europe from islam, but there were crusades and massacres against finns, wends, lithuanians, saxons, and even heterodox christians in southern france. Also the slave trade of non-christians was approved.So these measures led to domination of the governmental and educated classes by the church. But laymen often kept up traditions, not typically as rebellion but simply because they didn't know it wasn't christian. Normies of all ages do what they've always done, they don't think about it. To this day many customs in Europe continue, but the average person doesn't know that dancing around a maypole is a native fertility ritual. This was still the case in the early modern period, although the extreme protestant vs catholic warring no doubt destroyed many important manuscripts and artifacts. The rise of puritanism attempted to destroy even more, but the only place it truly took root is in America. When the protestant vs catholic warring ended secularism and scholarship started to rise, and we mostly get preservation again. But at the same time the industrial revolution happened, which destroyed traditional towns and lifestyles and drove urbanisation. [2/2]
>>24682687>The closest analogue would be Roman attacks against the order of the druids, but that was a political move done to stop Celtic organisation and resistance?? Most of Catholicism and Christianity by extension go written down by Celtic scholars who still has a very loose definition of what was pagan Vs Christian. Celtic legal organisation has layers of political classes, none of which are druids. It's why brehon law was still being supplanted by English law long after Catholicism had taken hold in Ireland. A lot of the surviving pagan syncretism in Catholicism comes from Celtic festivals, which is why in a lot of Iberia, the British Isles and even further into Protestant northern Europe you still have barely disguised solstices and equinoxes
>>24681924>how and why Pagan religions were conquered by ChristianityMonotheistic faiths have a nasty habit of sneaking up on polytheists by becoming one cult among many and then spreading like wildfire before turning against "idolatry". I sincerely recommend "The Final Pagan Generation" by Edward J. Watts, which examines Rome's conversion to Christianity. Specifically it talks about how as Christianity spread the Roman elite was unconcerned because it was just another eastern cult (scarcely the first time Rome had been touched by adherents of such things among the elite). And when Julian the Apostate tried to resist Christianity, the last pagans did not throw their support behind him to preserve some "pagan way of life" but rather criticised his drastic anti-Christian measures as violating the Roman way of life.I don't have a book to recommend on how Rome's Germanic (Christian) successor kingdoms managed to convince most other pagans to convert. Military conquest did happen (e.g. Charlemagne's war with the Saxons or the Northern Crusades, about which you can read in Tyerman's "God's War: A New History of the Crusades") but many powerful eastern and northern kingdoms such as Hungary, Bulgaria, Kiev, Denmark-Norway converted voluntarily. Adapting a universalist religion was politically advantageous for them to be accepted into Christendom and enter diplomatic relations on equal footing and to unify their populations (divided into tribes, sometimes belonging to radically different peoples such as Slavs and Magyars/Bulgars) into "nations".
>>24681964The pagans and jews repeatedly teamed up to try to get rid of christianity. Julian even tried rebuilding the temple.
>>24682957>>24682833>>24682752>>24682689>>24682282>>24681970Thx . Great info and i will look into these reccomendationsAll I know is that Yule was not celebrated on the soltice and it was traditionally celebrated on the first full moon after the first new moon after the solsticeI am also looking for thoughts or books that discuss what "God " actually is while researching all the different religions and beliefsAnd I am thinking its simply whatever energy exists all around us that gives us "life/energy".But for now I am interested in the original beleifs of indo-europeans and also the roots and inner workings of christianity /abrahamic religionsI am also wondering more about Jesus being a real person and also about some of the older "myths" of dudes like odin being real, or romulus /remus actually being birther by wolvesAnd yes I am a retard
>>24681924artificial religions like christianity have the same relationship to natural religions that technological society has to traditional society. the former defeats the latter in both cases, but the victory comes at the cost of the humanity of those who accept it.
Lots of faganlarpers in this thread kekPagans were conquered because their religions didn't actually teach jack shit. Best you got is the Greeks and the Romans and even then in those the main message was Zeus could come into your house at any moment and rape your wife for no reason. The moral and ethical teachings came from men who rejected their degenerate religion and were instead obsessed with a more spiritual view that wasn't at all related to their deities, these are proto-Christians like Aristotle who got integrated later on through men like Thomas Aquinas. Meanwhile Christianity actually had moral value, it taught people to behave and to collaborate, it taught peace and prosperity where the pagans taught violence and conquest. So people adopted it seeing their lives improve dramatically through its teachingsPagantroons will say that it's muh joos but in reality kikes fucking hate Christianity, they say Christ is burning for eternity in excrement. Their religion, much like mohammedism, is just more paganism (specifically from Babylon) with a fake "Old Testament" exterior even though the Torah varies wildly from the OT and they don't even follow that, just the Talmud. Meanwhile they do push paganism like new age retarded crap everywhere. Fun fact, like 30% of all buddhists are jewsAnyways, not many books available on discussing paganism in a manner that isn't blatantly biased because they're hidden from view, censored by the algorythms. Try some apologist works from the early years, actual well-reputed literature instead of some book written by a total hick who has no clue what "paganism" even is beyond being an edgy atheist who likes the aesthetic
>>24681924Religion and the Decline of Magic by Keith Thomas. Basically most Europeans became Christians without recanting any of their pagan beliefs, which the Church had to justify to avoid popular revolt by popularizing saints and miracles. People still basically worshipped pagan gods and practiced magic until the 1500s with a fig leaf of Christian respectability. When the Reformation sparked, everything changed and both sides attacked pagan elements of their enemy's religious beliefs.
>>24684046Pagan religions didn't "teach" anything, which is why they lost out to Christianity. They were ways of negotiating with the supernatural/metaphysical though sacrifice and offerings but didn't offer any big picture justifications.Reminder that Ragnarok and Valhalla are just Norse-themed retellings of Revelation and Heaven written by a Christian 300 years after conversion in the same text that posits that Thor is the black son of Memnon, King of Ethiopia.
>>24684064You assume faganlarpers actually believe in muh Odeen and muh Valhalla. In reality the vast majority of them, at least in this site, are just nietszchean losers who see them as "the epitome of masculinity" and basically just want to get ripped like old Greek statues of Hercules. They just like the aesthetics, as I said. >>24684054Holy fucking kek. I mean I know you don't actually believe this shit, this is just a massive fantasy fiction you love to dream out in your head like how feminists dream that women ruled back in the olden days and le patriarchy enslaved them. But you know, this is insanely pathetic and you should probably go touch some grass
>Some Books for OP The EddasMetamorphosesThe IlliadThe Orphic and Homeric HymnsThe 3 Cauldrons ManuscriptThe 4 Books of the Celts (Red Book of Wales I think is the only surviving One)The HeimskringlaThe Conquest of Gaul by CaesarThe Histories by HerodotusThe Saxon ChroniclesThe Kings of the Goths, Vandals and SuebiGermania by TacitusOn the Jews by TacitusMabinogionEssex Riddle Book9 Herbs CharmSong of the SunPicatrixAgrippa's 3 Books of Occult PhilosophyGods and Myths of Northern EuropeHow to read ChurchesThe Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity>conquered by Christianityother way around. the Gods hide within the stones of every Church
>>24684064>Thor is the Black Son of Memnonsame line that claims Thor is from Memnom also claims that Thor was beautiful and radiant, as white as 'ivory inlaid against oak wood', if memory serves me. the cope that ragnarok and valhalla were made up is retarded bullshit; end world and warrior paradise mythemes are present in other indo-european religions uncontaminated by christian influence. youre just an illiterate pseud thats never heard of the elysian fields, an obvious greco-roman parallel to valhalla that was written about before your god was born, or how caesar claimed the celts and other barbarians believed in reincarnation as a reward for dying in battle, another obvious parallel. theres no warriors heaven in your bible, so where did they come up with that if it was made up? >>24684440also Prometheus Bound and Jomsviking saga
>>24683081You're welcome
>>24681970>the Anglo Saxons could have easily massacred the Christian mercenaries, they converted on their own will.because it was politically and economically convenient for them since it placed them in alignment with the franks, who in turn had further trade connections in italy. the saxons on the mainland did not convert and in fact resisted christianity bitterly for several centuries after their official conversion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_revolt_of_1077%E2%80%931088>'the joos'opinion discarded. christians are not doing anything to resist islamic invasion, if anything they are aiding them. I could pull up a dozen pictures of churches around the world doing active harm to your country by helping immigrants get their green cards but I will post Hermansil instead
>>24681970Muslims didn’t exist when Rome became Christian. Also “get the Muslims to invade” lol using what leverage? The Arab central bank of the 7th century? Or the jew magic that manages to fill every hole in these conspiracy theories. Vibe history..
>>24682991the reverse has happened significantly more times. who cares about the gay jew temple anyways? only relevant to your jew prophecy about the end of the world (which i thought you wanted anyways)
>>24684046>ay yo we wuz Aristotle and shitDo christcucks really? Lmao
>>24681932>>24681964Baldur
>>24684782for me its Flyns
>>24684666Christians demonstrably built a lot upon the foundations of Aristotellianism, Platonism and similar non-theological Greek philosophies. They're the basis for integral parts of the Christian theological structure, such as Thomism. This is diametrically opposed to other "pagans" which explicitly rejected these writings. But I can get how someone who refuses to read actual philosophical books and instead reads some shit conspiracy book about how everyone was secretly pagan and le ebil Church somehow conquered the world magically wouldn't know that
>>24684827Furthermore, the majority of Greek/Roman philosophers did not believe in muh Greek paganism or any other kind, really. Aristotle's theology on the unmoved mover is very much on track with the Christian God. Plato believed there was a singular perfect being who created all forms, AKA once again, the Christian God. Socrates was literally executed publicly for refusing to worship the Greek deities, and in various writings clearly shows he puts one specific deity over the others, in a variant of monotheism which isn't Christian per se but shows signs of it, hence proto-Christian (it should be noted that some Redditards will say that Socrates was an atheist, but if he was then all his texts of deities and the soul would be pointless. He was also executed for teaching other deities to the Greek crowds, not for teaching them they didn't exist). This pattern repeats over and over with othersQuite telling that not a single one of the great philosophers was a pagan like larpagans like to think. Most of them were diametrically opposed to the conceptions of the time and believed in theories heavily resembling parts of the Christian faith. But again this requires actually reading them instead of blind assumptions or reading what some faggot says about them with zero evidence, unsurprising that a bunch of losers with zero real understanding of the world beyond their asinine delusions wouldn't know anything about them.
>>24684046>More Christian moralfaggingOk grandma
>>24684827Neither Plato or Aristotle outright rejected the old gods. Aristotle was initiated into the Eleusinian Mysteries ffs. Their belief system was obviously a different more henotheistic interpretation of religious belief than the common people had but that doesn't make them proto-Christians and it doesn't mean they would have jumped at the chance to convert to Cucktianity no matter how much underage tradcath larpers like you want it to be true. If anything they would have recognized it as the ridiculous desert superstition that it is and cheered when Christians were being put to death.
>>24684827>This is diametrically opposed to other "pagans" which explicitly rejected these writings.Are you actually fucking retarded? Part of the reason those guys are still so well known and studied today is because they were revered and studied throughout the whole Greco-Roman world. They weren't some unknown thinkers nearly lost to history until friar fatfuck decided to use his autism to write a million page tome about how they were totally Christcucks before Christ was even born. Unlike Abrahamic retards who throw a hissy fit whenever they're reminded about different religious beliefs, ancient pagans and polytheists in general tend to be more open to the idea that there are many ways to understand the divine.
>>24684782where is his gate
>>24681964>DA JOOSyou are completely braindead retarded if you think jews had anything to do with the christianization of norway, for example.
>>24681932Christianity was enforced from the top down by cynical tyrants like Constantine and Charlemagne to make their subjects more sheeplike. Your post is pure cope
>>24685242>ancient pagans and polytheists in general tend to be more open to the idea that there are many ways to understand the divine.and that's why they executed Socrates
>>24684054I still need to read that
>>24685317They executed Socrates because he was a Pelasgian negrito faggot that was fucking boys
Plato's desire was to he a proto-Muhammad or a successor to Akhenaten, uniting the world in the worship of a singular supreme god with himself as his prophet.
>>24685329fucking boys and being homosexual is a proud indo european tradition thoughbeit
>>24684666Nice trips, satan. I bet you're underage.
>>24685336Brown hands typed this
>>24684878>>24685213>>24685242Im beginning to think Paganism is just a religion for boys to rebel against their fathers for not accepting their homosexuality.
>>24685351indo europeans were brown and looked like Indians
>>24685356The clergy of the Catholic church is composed almost entirely of homosexual men including the Pope himself
>>24685356>yeah well you're gayChristcucks have no arguments lmao
>>24681970>they converted on their own willNo they didn't Christianity was imposed top down by kings who converted to christianity for jewish money and power.
>>24685351nazi mutts when they learn where the "indo" in indo-european came from
>>24685935Low effort bait, everyone knows it comes from the invasion of the Indian subcontinent by Europeans, hence creating a continuous related culture from India to Europe in the Bronze Age
abandon all hope of quality discussion ye who enter a /pol/tard thread
>>24681924If you guys want to understand why paganism was always a LARP, the best example imo is not found in Europe but in the Americas. Look at how the nahuatl speakers, to paint the whole tribes broadly withing a single group for the sake of an easier example, converted to Christianity. Their faith started to tremble when learning about Christianity in a way in which they by themselves started to alter their myths, origins and concepts in order to give them an earthly, physical and concrete location and not just a mystical home, to validate and justify them in the face of the Spaniards WITHOUT the Spaniards putting any kind of pressure on them, direct or indirect, subtle or otherwise. There's no example better than Tamoanchan and Tlalocan. If you strictly want in Europe, the Roman Empire is not a good example. Look at the Finns. They entire mythos ends with their very own central (more or less) hero of legend going away by himself after losing against Christ as a child. He recognizes his unrelenting force and goes away on his own accord on his mythical boat only telling the people of Finland that he will return when they will need him the most because at this moment he is clearly unwanted and not needed.Paganism started to crumble by itself when Christianity said show me as well, not just tell me. The Christians had their holy relics in so many ways and forms. When the pagans let their head down to think for the answers they did not had, Christians filled the void. Not to mentions that it conquered in the majority of scenarios by integrating instead of destroying outright (within the Christian limits of normality ofc).That stupid basedjack meme with "the human sacrifices will stop" spaniard Chad has more truth to it that you can imagine.
>>24685952>We wuz aryans and sheeeeeet!!Ugh stop larping you retard wigturd.
>>24686026Mexcremement tradcath larper detected
>>24686071who hurt you Paco? truth hurts? prove me wrong. when Spaniards told your kind "show proof", you converted. Simple as. At least in Europe the pagans had a say in it.
>>24686046Sorry for stating something fully accepted by all credible archaeologists, archaeogeneticists, and linguists Baljeet
>>24686026Yeah so basically everything you said was inaccurate + you're Mexican
>>24686081The Indios were conquered and enslaved and then force-converted. This is documented exhaustively and the existence of syncretic saint cults, local superstitions, and even just outright underground paganism proves you incorrect. Same thing for Europe except there it was mostly very cynical political conversions by rulers who needed something universalist and totalitarian to help them dominate disparate and/or warlike peoples.
>>24686026>using the word "faith" to refer to heathen folk traditionsDiscarded without possibility of appeal
>>24686081>conquer people>tear down their holy places and build your own on top>burn their sacred books and histories >put them on trial and kill them if they don't worship your super special idea of godYeah they totally did it under no pressure
>>24686125its just the latest xitter tradcath cope being pushed around these days, they wont ever reply
>>24686109Wtf? Cortes and 300 Spaniards did all that? Damn what to these boys eat yoooo!
I believe it's a very funny thing that if all of the what these LARPagans say about Christianity is true, it only makes their gods (if they even believe in them) and their religions pathetic: The lowest form of slave-religion not merely tricked, but actively bullied, outperformed and conquered the mighty """aryan""" warrior cults of old. The wolf of Odin was massacred by the "sheep-like" Christian man. So much for the "pagan values" of strength, ambition, blood and pride above all.And let's not even mention how your guys actually had fairly cordial relations with the jews today you accuse of creating Christianity. In fact, they even tried to rebuilt their temple just to spite the Christians.
>>24685373Just like your mom
>>24685386Yes you would have a lot of experience with that.
>>24685399I wasn't arguing with you, I was insulting you. Though I figure you're too slow to catch on to that. Understandable.
>>24686826The first man in space was a communist. Is Marxism the superior doctrine?
>>24686826>I believe it's a very funny thing that if all of the what these Christcucks say about Atheism is true, it only makes their god (if they even believe in xher/xhey) and their religion pathetic: The lowest form of nihilism not merely tricked, but actively bullied, outperformed and conquered the mighty """jewish""" cults of old. The son of Yahweh was massacred by the "obese" Atheist man. So much for the "Christian values" of sucking jewish cock, eating jewish cum, pedophile priests and relocating sub-saharans to White countries above all.And let's not even mention how your guys actually had fairly cordial relations with the jews today you accuse of creating Christianity. In fact, they even tried to rebuilt their temple just to spite the Christians.
>>24686826>the jews today you accuse of creating Christianity.Are you claiming that christianity was mot founded by jewish people?
>>24686764No. You don't seem to be at all aware of the history of the Spaniards and Portuguese in the New World outside of shitty memes made by philipinos
All arguments regarding Christianity vs European Paganism are irrelevant. Christianity is jewish, European Paganism is European. Nothing else matters. Don't ever listen to these cryptojews pilpul about it.
>>24686937>>24686958>What's an internal critique?Are you two dishonest, or just stupid? I mentioned "pagan virtues" because the point of my mockery is that these admissions and grievances invalidate LARPagans with a might-makes-right mindset. They constantly call Christianity a religion for the weak and the slave, a religion of resentment against the strong, a tool of semitic domination, in the same breath they also decry the whimpering death of their violent, prideful gods to these sheepish, infectiously weak Christians. Within their own paradigm Christ would be the conqueror and them the resentful vanquished. So no, I don't believe that strength proves superiority or truth. However, many (if not most) in your camp absolutely do. >>24686962The Apostles were jewish, but the LARPagan claims usually go much further: They argue that Christianity is a golem religion and what not, a tool of the semite to subjugate the gentiles. The irony comes with the fact that the supposed virtuous, anti-jewish faiths they wish to return to actually defended judaism in their squables with Christianity, and Julian the Apostate went as far as to plan to rebuild their Temple while on one of his seething episodes.
>>24687032I just dream with the day you larpers actually argue for the reality of your faith and your gods, and imitate, at least, the sincerity of your ancestors. Because let's be honest: For most of you this isn't about communion, faith or God, but about adopting religion as a form of technology to further your political aims. Most of you don't believe, simple as that.
>>24686937So? Russia never landed on the moon
>>24687088>For most of you this isn't about communion, faith or God,European ethnic religions weren't about any of that shit>but about adopting religion as a form of technology to further your political aims.Oh wow so you figured out that most pagan larpers ended up looking into it because they realized christian priests are cucks that worship blacks and jews?
>>24687081>Are you two dishonest, or just stupid? I mentioned "pagan virtues" because the point of my mockery is that these admissions and grievances invalidate LARPagans with a might-makes-right mindset. They constantly call Christianity a religion for the weak and the slave, a religion of resentment against the strong, a tool of semitic domination, in the same breath they also decry the whimpering death of their violent, prideful gods to these sheepish, infectiously weak Christians. Within their own paradigm Christ would be the conqueror and them the resentful vanquished.This is an argument so tired it was disproven in Gorgias before the jewish race was even invented. No, mass movements in which herds of the weak-willed and resentful snuff out higher forms of life in the cradle is not an example of "might makes right" it's an example of "this is actually why these retards SHOULD be slaves forever"
>>24687032Not quite, the Germans were colonized by Carthaginians
>>24687081>The christianity = master morality because it took over europe argumentIs school not back in session yet? Fucking leave you stupid little twat
>>24687097>European ethnic religions weren't about any of that shitEuropean religion wasn't about honoring and keeping communion with both your ancestors and the intelligences that ruled the world through the medium of sacrifice and worship? Dude you are a retard. >because they realized christian priests are cucks that worship blacks and jews?You mean a modern phenomenon born from literal CIA meddling with western religious insitutions? "Worship jews" lmao, when even the romans, from the earliest of days, noticed how much both religions squabled constantly and hated each other. When Jews themselves accuse Christianity of being the origin of european hatred.
>>24686826>So much for the "pagan values" of strength, ambition, blood and pride above all.A healthy body can lose out to a microscopic virus. A mighty warrior can be killed by a weedy little runt with a dagger sneaking up from behind. An enormous, decadent empire can lose out to a few brainless savages that haven't lost their appetite for conquest.You can be of the highest quality and still lose under the right circumstances. All you need to do is look around the modern West for proof that I'm right. Europeans have enough firepower and brains to take over the entire world, and yet they're losing their territories and resources to groups that couldn't even figure out the wheel. >In fact, they even tried to rebuilt their temple just to spite the Christians.Pagan Rome annihilated Judaea and almost all of its population at the end of the Jewish-Roman wars. Jews in christian Rome had many, many more rights and protections than Roman Pagans. If you actually think Pagans are pro-Jew because of one emperors plan (which never happened because he was likely speared in the back for being Pagan), then you're probably a pea brained christmutt
>>24687110Christianity is a universalist religion that is mostly nonwhite and was created by jews, and is centered around jewish texts and a jewish god.
>>24687110>European religion wasn't about honoring and keeping communion with both your ancestors and the intelligences that ruled the world through the medium of sacrifice and worship?Yeah, no. You're a pseud, and a poor one at that.
>>24687120Ah I see. So you really aren't religious and just worship skin color. I see...
>>24687103>>24687108>weak-willed and resentful snuff out higher forms of life in the cradle is not an example of "might makes right"And here we come: The pagan's desperate attempt to rescue some kind of virtue from a moral stance they proudly proclaim originated in nature. Where in nature are these limits, that only the strength that is aesthetically pleasant to you, is somehow valid? In what testament can I go and read about the "valid" ways of vanquishing your enemies? "Might makes right" is merely a description that those that are the most prolific using violence also set the standard for what is right and wrongs; they are the natural masters, and this we can observe in most forms of life. But how one comes to that power is no concern of nature or the primordial law: If anything, trickery, disguise and low cunning are rewarded over strength. What's this "highest" form of life? How do you justify? What God settled it? In what molecule is written? Let me save you the headache: it exists nowhere, because it's merely a desperate attempt to save moral objectivity, the Christian virtues, within a paradigm that has no place for it.
>european heathens believed in loyalty, strength, beauty,>"but christianity is clearly the fulfilment of this because a deranged roman emperor converted to it before murdering his own family"
>>24687138>But there's no priest reading from jewbooks to tell me this is good so how can it be? Hmm? Checkmate larpagan.
>>24687119You are appealing to a series of virtues and moral limits to strength that, ironically, I agree to, but you haven't justified yet. Why is the capacity of a virus to kill a bigger man not strength? How do you justify this appeal to honor that nature ignores? Most of the time your types can't actually come to any firm grounding besides the fact that the aesthetics of virtue and honorable strength are more appealing to you personally, and I agree, but that's not a justification.
>>24687134Christians hate the White race and worship brown people. You heard it here first.
>>24687143Where I said I needed a book, larper? I am asking you for any grounding you might conjure for what so far seems an arbitrary preference based on pure aesthetics. Nature, at least, has no such concerns in regards to what species dominate.
>>24687146NTA but let me respond to this very quickly:>Why is the capacity of a virus to kill a bigger man not strength?It is a strength for the virus, great job. Just like how Christianity's ability to deracinate europeans is a strength.>How do you justify this appeal to honor that nature ignores?You're literally retarded.>Most of the time your types can't actually come to any firm grounding besides the fact that the aesthetics of virtue and honorable strength are more appealing to you personally, and I agree, but that's not a justification.Why would he have to justify anything to a slackjawed cryptojew? Are you under the impression that someone wants to sit here and pilpul with you about viruses? Viruses are bad because they are hostile to me. Christianity is bad because it is hostile to me. I wouldn't care if it brought about world peace (it doesn't) at solely my own expense.
>>24687121Let me guess: You are going to argue that nordic religion was actually about magic placentas and that the act of throwing temple columns to the sea or hanging men on sacred trees had nothing to do with appeasing powers they believed were real.
>>24687156>an arbitrary preference based on pure aestheticsNo "grounding" is required beyond this
>>24687149Where did you get that from? Your personal headcanon?
>>24687169Insufferable pseud lol, please go back to r/christianity
>>24687176
>>24687134All christcuck spammers are literally third worlders
>>24686826>muh templeyou christians keep going on about this lately, who cares? that shit is only relevant to your retarded jew cult and the other retarded jew cult. besides i thought protestants wanted the temple built? half of you christians should be thanking pagans for trying to build it early for you. trying to rebuild some stupid gay ass temple is not nearly as damaging as the support christians have given to jews over the years. the entire reason they have a land in the middle east now, after 2000 years of exile thanks to pagans, is because of christians and christian nations going out of their way to create one
>>24687161>>24687170Then stop moaning and whimpering like the very resentful slaves you hate, retards. Here you are yielding any appeal to mortality, honor, virtue or even courtesy, admiting that within your retarded paradigms they don't exist and only survival and aesthetic preferences rule your actions.There's nothing Christianity did "wrong" within this perspective: It came as a far more efficient, and even predatory form of religion, it conquered and humilliated your ancient cults, and to this day it informs the moral presuppositions of a good chunk of the planet, even its enemies. And best of all: It was under Christian banners that Europe reached its maximum territorial extension and earthly power, dominating nations to a level not even your most ambitious pagan warlords could dream about.You want to believe that? Fine, but this constant crying and lamenting your defeat is anything but a sign of the master mortality you admire.
>>24687182honestly, licking niggerfeet is the least of it at this point.
>>24687177I am waiting for you to tell me what european religion was actually about. Me throwing Varg's retarded headcanon was just a guess.
>>24687189>There's nothing Christianity did "wrong" within this perspectiveIt's jewish.
>>24687193Tell you about it? It's not universalist religion so I couldn't care less if you're informed about it, especially since you're a 4'11 Guatemalan man.
>>24687189>And best of all: It was under Christian banners that Europe reached its maximum territorial extension and earthly powerwhich largely wound up towards benefiting jews. 500 years of glorious christian civilization has ended in....the spaniards wiping themselves and their empire out through racemixing and the ideal of converting the natives to christianity over exterminating them, the british who have been ruled by jews since cromwell let them back in for protestant reasons, and the french which was ruled by freemason sodomites and of course, jews. the only pure christian empire of that time period was the german one, which was betrayed and backstabbed by the other christian nations on the promises of jew-gold. and now they all whither and die, as is the case in all who trust a jew
>>24687188>Support Christians have given to the jews over the years.You mean, a modern, largely protestant phenomenon that started on the rise of secularism, it became worse with the Vatican's capture by western intelligence agencies, and represents a break with 1800 years of Christian history where no such support was given to them?Might as well say that paganism is about being faggots and feminist, goddess-worshiping landwhales, if we are only judging with recent history.
>>24687189>It was under Christian banners that Europe reached its maximum territorial extension and earthly power, dominating nations to a level not even your most ambitious pagan warlords could dream about.Few realize that Rabbi Shimon Kepha actually invennted the concept of Empire and military expansion, before he taught this concept to paleface cave apes they used to just eat worms out of the ground.
>>24687208Kek it's literally jewish wewuzzing
>>24687204Jews were given control of baking throughout Europe long before this. You're coping.
>>24687189>There's nothing Christianity did "wrong" within this perspectiveyour idea of paganism strikes me as someone who learned about it from video games and fantasy novels more than actual history. it was standard moral practice to not bring weapons into pagan temples, as they were supposed to be places of peace or sanctuaries. when olaf trygvasson approached the temple of thor, he promised to the priests there to relinquish his weapons and be peaceful, tho he was a christian. the priests trusted him and took his swords, but olaf and his men hid away daggers. during the ceremony, olaf killed the head priest and swore to kill any others who did not convert and baptise then and there. that isnt 'beating paganism at its own game' or 'acting within its own moral paradigms' or whatever nonsense you are on about. thats just straight up subversive jew behavior. by your logic what that tranny did in that catholic school was completely justified because he used his cunning and wit to totally epically pwn christianity
>>24687204>modern, largely protestant phenomenon200 years huh? 200 years is still alot of time and doesnt just immediately absolve you of guilt or blame. the rise of jewry in the modern age can very clearly be centered on christians, and you like to deflect this and blame pagans like liars.>no such support was given to themjews were allowed to practice usury and live amongst christians and the church protected them on numerous occasions against pogroms and discrimination by kings and peasant mobs, largely on the basis of them being a 'witness generation' or whatever autistic bullshit. you would know, youre the christian here
>>24687214Christians were deranged totalitarian zealots that made the bolsheviks look like boy scouts. And now a philipino is going to describe this as a hecking good thing.
>>24687201This is utterly hypocritical within your own paradigm: The structural weaknesses within the Christian states that allowed parasitic actors to produce in the long run our modern dystopia can be faulted to their religion as much as the "weaknesses" within the Pagan religions allowed Christianity to ultimately dominate them. If you wish to blame Christianity for an outcome no one but a few mad protestants wanted, then you ought to morally blame pagan Rome for causing the """"jewish"""" domination of Christ over Europe.Besides, some of your comments are hilariously absurd: The Spaniards didn't "wiped themselves out" they still exist in Spain and is only now that their low birthrates are catching up. Their inability to control their greed for gold and not bankrupt their empire, or to not rape natives and create a mestizo class, are not Christianity's fault.
>>24687228Christianity is a jewish mind virus and subversion isn't a defect or flaw, it's the entire purpose for its creation.
>>24687214Retard, aren't you following the conversation?My initial post, and pretty much all afterwards, attacked this popular LARPagan idea that, under the typical might-makes-right principles, Christianity was to blame for anything. That these absolute morons appealing to nature to "justify" their heathen nonsense were in fact dunking on their own deities and indirectly admiting Christianity's superiority as an organism.When they attempted to bring up honor and morals and treachery I asked them from where it even came from and they just gave up, admiting that morality had nothing to do with it and validating my initial critique.I actually agree with you and condemn treachery, lies and forced conversions of that kind. But if you hold a paganism that isn't pant on the heads retarded "hurr hurr strength", please, justify from where it comes from, as that would be more productive than indulging the girly moaning of the supposed holders of "master mortality"
>>24687250Lol none of this happened. You are beyond parody haha
>>24687250I dont care about whatever those anons said, what youre saying is x10 more retarded. notice that you cant actually refute what I said here >>24687214, instead youre just whining like a little girl that i butt into your conversation or whatever. I dont care, youre still a dumb faggot
>>24687208Retard, are you dishonest or just stupid? The point was that no pagan Empire ever reached the extension nor the power that the Christian European states reached during their time period. Of fucking course pagans knew how to conquer: The point is that, ironically and despite what is said in this thread, it was their christian descendants the ones who did it best.
>>24687257So much lying from the honorable pagantard: >>24686826>>24687161>>24687170>>24687189
>>24687263>did it best.the fruits of the spanish christian empire; a great favela filled with a bunch of mixed race mutts with abysmal IQ. the fruits of the french empire? one of the highest percentages of niggers in europe. the fruits of the english christian empire; complete and total jewish domination of the world.
>>24687263>Indo-Europeans stretched from Indian to Ireland>Greco-Romans stretched from modern day Pakistan to modern day England>Early Modern Europeans built massive oversea empires>The third isn't a natural development of a Europe that's already been doing this for 4000 years but is in fact because they adopted jew worshipWhoa
>>24687268yeah your links dont really prove anything except what >>24687214 said being true
>>24687262Dumb larper, what you said had nothing to do with my point you retard: I am not arguing that some norwegian Christian king using treachery to kill a pagan priest was good, fair or "just", but that within the paradigm those anons had there was no possible moral objection against it, as strength in nature cares little for honor or valor. I was doing an internal critique and for some reason you, the sole pagan that do seems to affirm some kind of moral standard apart from nature, feel attacked by it.
>>24687268Yeah none of what you said happened happened
>>24687278>those anonsare these anons in the room with us right now? you replied to yourself in half those links you idiot.
>>24687277Retard, I am attacking, from the very first post, an specific idea of LARPagan nonsense that paints Christianity in particular as some slave, anti-natural, "wealth" religion according to might-makes-right nonsense, because I know for a fact that many of you tards do follow such a retarded philosophy. I don't believe that actual historical paganism worked in such a way, and if anything I consider them better, because they, unlike you, actually believed in their gods.
>>24687263It wasn't any different from the Aryans, Hellenes, Romans, and Germanics though, just at a larger scale because European technology had advanced
>>24687286>enter thread about books>seethe and rage about unrelated posts from another thread where you got BTFO>post zero books>get called a retard>shit up thread with 100 seething retard poststypical christshit behavior
>>24687288Although to split hairs it technically was the Germanics themselves doing it since it was the same aristocracies ruling that conquered West Europe in the migratory period. Except in France post-Revolution
>>24684478Monarchist Christians are a different breed from 21st Century Christians. The former obeyed God through the king, and orderly violence against heathen was divinely sanctioned. The latter exalts the social contract, and money shall be their death knell. Pagan intellectuals aided the death of divine law - Hellenized Jews aided some part of it.>>24684502>rapture theologyHistoric Christianity has upheld that the temple was built upon Christ. All christhating jews are disinherited from Israel (and Israel the person was named so out of faith, not genetics.)
>>24687284Retard: >>24687161>>24687170>>24687119Tell me these are imaginary, or that it wasn't an immediate concession that actual morality is of no concern for them. I get called a lying jew, but you guys are the bunch of slimy, dishonest fuckers.
>>24687286>slave, anti-natural, Yes, it is>"wealth" religionLiterally what does this even mean
>>24687294It's not a concession the guy said NTA dumbfuck. You are not arguing with one person
>>24687291The conversation had already moved well past any attempt to recommend books well before I came in you retard. Go be dishonest somewhere else.
>>24687293>The former obeyed God through the king, and orderly violence against heathen was divinely sanctioned.but not the jews, correct?
>>24687263>europeans had already been madlad [all points into military tech] barbarian conquerors for 3000 years>every non-european people that adopted christianity was either annihilated in the arab conquests or accomplished nothing ever (ethiopia)>"christianity is the reason for european imperialism"Christcucks are so delusionial it's unreal
>>24687300I specifically said anons in plural. I am not pretending those posts are from the same person.
>>24687294none of them are saying what you saying they were saying
>>24687306nigger, you are clearly the same anon that shit up the thread from the very start >>24681932>>24681964>>24681970your posting style sticks out like a sore thumb, these are all obviously you replying to yourself
>>24687308Great! If Christianity is not to blame from European Imperialism, but a gene, then any return to a strong, virile heathen culture is unnecesary, as Europeans outperform no matter their religion.
>>24687315but christianity has clearly proven itself to be unfavorable in the modern era for the white man. why would I go to church? so i can be surrounded by mexicans? or give them tithes? so they can import more mexicans and feed more niggers? why would I ever be involved with a christian community? what use is your religion given this idea that european supremacy is an inherent trait? what is christianity then but a shackle?
>>24687312Schizo retard, not a single one of those is mine: I don't use supposed pagan predictions of Christ because they depend too much on interpretation, even if some might be true.
>>24687317so why do we need a religion that specifically outlines that we must protect the jews at all costs? that doesnt seem a little weird to you, like something a brain parasite would write into your legal papers?
>>24687298>YesJustify your definition of unnatural and explain what makes christianity supposedly abnormal.>what does this meanAutocorrect fucked me up; meant to say weak religion.
>>24687315It's clearly caused deracination and a decline in European gene quality. Abandoning it and the human equality nonsense it spawned is the only way forward.
>>24687318those are so, so your posts
>>24687307>geopolitics and human nature>mob violenceThe ideal model are rulers like Saint King Louis IX, or King Edward I of England. Orderly violence must take place by decree or judicial trial. Faith that disregards authority is no faith at all, for the magistrate is God's appointed.Even Martin Luther called for the death of rioting Protestants.
>>24687323>Justify your definition of unnatural and explain what makes christianity supposedly abnormal.Equality of man, jewish supremacy (they're not even a real race and the hebrew bible was invented in the hellenic period), jew god, jew, you are jewish
>>24687327>blah blah blahlet me make it a little simpler. I will ask two questions, answer me with YES or NO and no more bullshit than thatShould Pagans be executed under Christian law?Should Jews be executed under Christian law?
>>24687323>Justify your definition of unnatural and explain what makes christianity supposedly abnormal.Original sin, mortification of the flesh, denial of the world, slave worship, oh, and it's Jewish.
>>24687317>>24687322A Papal bull particular of the Crusades well before judaism became the parasitic entity that it's today, in a time where jews were often protected as tools of the state for their merchantile talent and wealth with no expectation of them "controlling" anything, within a social context where the attacks against them were also caused by religion, isn't the damning piece of evidence you believe it is. These same monarchs and popes would often turn and expell them anyway later on.And about your first question: From my own POV, becaus Christianity is the true and the supposed "anti-european" character is not inherent and fairly recent, mostly a result of external subversion and secularism. From a pragmatic perspective? Because pagans are nothing: Despite all the churches ready to die for Israel, the number of Christians opposed to it globally (orthodox, displeased tradcaths, protestants, etc) is far bigger than the number of "based neo-pagans" that exist today or have any sort of power.
>>24687340>A Papal bull particular of the Crusades well before judaism became the parasitic entity that it's today, in a time where jews were often protected as tools of the state for their merchantile talent and wealth with no expectation of them "controlling" anythingeverything you just said could be used to justify julian siding with the jews btw
>>24687334>negrobrainYes and yes. However divine patience and longsuffering mercy is commanded in parallel to the law.Noah preached for 120 years before the world was destroyed. All Christian men are responsible to saving their pagan relatives until the time for mercy is over.
>>24687348>Yes and yesbut the historical reality has been "yes and no". why is that? >until the time for mercy is OVERkek, alright crusader pedro. nobody is going to convert to your jew religion with your faggy little edgelord attitude
>>24687325>>24687333>>24687337>JustifyHow old you fuckers are? Do you know what justification is? Merely asserting (false) shit about Christianity is no argument: I requested a epistemically grounded standard for us to judge how Christianity somehow escapes the limits of nature.The trap is, of course, that within your paradigm no such thing exist: Christianity is just another organism outperforming and devouring weaker ones. In order for this argument to work you need to derive moral prescriptives from a worldview that only allows descriptive claims, which is impossible. This is the exact same dilemma of my initial argument.
>>24687365where in pagan morality does it say that life is just a series of competing amoebas? you keep asserting this strawman claim that you invented yourself. you genuinely look deranged, like a man arguing with his own shoeunrelated since I was looking of pictures of your pope with epstein, but picrel is the 'chinese' guy who published all those articles about tibet being full of mutilation and peasant torture before the commies took over. and yes his name is israel epstein
>>24687344Yes, it could. Unlike Julian, however, I have nearly 1500 years of examples why this suppossed order to "defend" judaism wasn't universal nor an inherent attitude, and that it could easily reverse to rather horrid extremes. Meanwhile across the centuries of Christian persecution in Ancient Rome, only once such a fury was ever directed at them, and in all other regards the Romans mostly treated them like any other backwater cult.
>>24687340>A Papal bull particular of the Crusades well before judaism became the parasitic entity that it's today, in a time where jews were often protected as tools of the state for their merchantile talent and wealth with no expectation of them "controlling" anything,Guys it‘s okay we only gave the jews all the power to become subversive they haven‘t done it quite yet
>>24687358>"yes and no"Scholasticism (and later intellectual movements) tolerated and enabled Jewish intellectuals, while geopolitics demanded financial interests.We should have listened to Saint Tertullian - incorporating extrabiblical philosophy gave license to loopholes.You, however, ignore the fact of 109 expulsions, and of King Edward I and St King Louis IX explicitly curtailing such actors.>edgelord attitudeA 120 years is an extremely long time.
>>24687371>where in pagan moralityYou know what? Fair man.Please, tell me what is morality in paganisn and your justification for it.
>>24687372>nearly 1500 years of examples why this suppossed order to "defend" judaism wasn't universal nor an inherent attitude, and that it could easily reverse to rather horrid extremes.and yet somehow magically the end of all that we have jews ruling the entire world thanks to christian meddling. not pagan meddling, not islamic meddling, christian meddling. how? remember before you answer, that you can lie to me and you can lie to the other anons, but you cannot lie to God. when you are dead, he will gaze through your soul and see your lies. so how did christians allow the jews total control of the world over the past 500 years?
>>24687375>All the powerYou do realize that this only happened well into the modern era and largely as a result of a protestant (tho increasingly secular) England and the openly secular states born from the French Revolution, right? No one ever thought power was being yielded to jews, and the purpose of that bull was to avoid more massacres. How exactly Christian states were meant to predict that secular usurpers would let themselves be fooled by banking families? Might as well blame Christianity on the pagan romans, again.
>>24687384Because in the last 200 to 300 years particular banking families took adventage of the wealth inherited after centuries of pariah living as merchants and the rise of anti-christian, anti-monarchical social revolutions to rise to the helm of European and American societies. These revolutions that openly targeted the social order you argue actually wanted those families to rise all along. Your position is retarded.
>>24687386NTAI will caveat that a need for war loans and the wars of reformation led to the jews being regarded as a lesser enemy, or as an enemy of an enemy. It is more accurate to say that sinful condition of banking and love of mammon against safeguarding orthodoxy was primarily a European component, and this vacuum in oversight led to the increase of Enlightenment thought and thus Jewish capture.Jewish capture is a symptom of Enlightenment heresy and absenteeism, than it is the other way around.European systems fail due to absentee rulership, or weak rulership. Case in point: the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Arenda system.
People who think too hard about Christianity but refuse to quit believing in it make themselves mentally ill
>>24687400You are right and this description is far more precise.
>>24681924>Now at that time many of the Hessians, brought under the Catholic faith and confirmed by the grace of the sevenfold spirit, received the laying on of hands; others indeed, not yet strengthened in soul, refused to accept in their entirety the lessons of the inviolate faith. Moreover some were wont secretly, some openly to sacrifice to trees and springs; some in secret, others openly practiced inspections of victims and divinations, legerdemain and incantations; some turned their attention to auguries and auspices and various sacrificial rites; while others, with sounder minds, abandoned all the profanations of heathenism, and committed none of these things. With the advice and counsel of these last, the saint attempted, in the place called Gaesmere, while the servants of God stood by his side, to fell a certain oak of extraordinary size, which is called, by an old name of the pagans, the Oak of Jupiter. And when in the strength of his steadfast heart he had cut the lower notch, there was present a great multitude of pagans, who in their souls were earnestly cursing the enemy of their gods. But when the fore side of the tree was notched only a little, suddenly the oak's vast bulk, driven by a blast from above, crashed to the ground, shivering its crown of branches as it fell; and, as if by the gracious compensation of the Most High, it was also burst into four parts, and four trunks of huge size, equal in length, were seen, unwrought by the brethren who stood by. At this sight the pagans who before had cursed now, on the contrary, believed, and blessed the Lord, and put away their former reviling. Then moreover the most holy bishop, after taking counsel with the brethren, built from the timber of the tree a wooden oratory, and dedicated it in honor of Saint Peter the apostle.Honestly, a sizeable number of, "Why did these people convert?" Is miracles. Moreover, even many people individually convert via miracles. Part of the issue is that any academic will ultimately say whether the above is real or fake; I think it's likely real as Acts of the Apostles show these. We really don't get old religions; they were about power and Christianity was simply a more powerful God grafting everyone onto the new covenant. Read some original missionary journals and letters and you can see what the original Christians saw of pagans. No religion survives Christianity as Christianity is pure Turth, as such it burns away other religions' delusions and they all become either satanic in opposition or heretical if in confused alignment. St. Francis Xavier used to touch beef to people's lips because Indian caste systems were so silly that would make them permanently untouchables. Christians often would just break pagan taboos and nothing bad would happen to them and then people would convert because they realize their culture had serious errors or lies in it. It's like calling someone by their true pronouns today.
>>24687404>I want to keep sinning so the Truth is a lieThanks !
>>24687420There is no "sinning" and the "Truth" is the deranged rambling of an inbred rabbi
>>24687415>Christians often would just break pagan taboos and nothing bad would happen to them and then people would convert because they realize their culture had serious errors or lies in it.subverting taboos is why the current world is in the mess thats in it, so actually those taboos turned out to be in place for a reason. you dont allow the flag of your nation to touch the ground; this is a very pagan idea tied to national cults and old totems. but the christian minds thinks nothing of such a disgrace since the kingdom of god supercedes all the nations. hence why we have niggers wiping their asses with our national flags and nobody does shit. taboos exist for a reason, and breaking them DOES inflict a generational curse that takes centuries to fully manifest
>>24687434Pagan taboos were literally women couldn't be in boats or they'd die. Christian society taboos are don't rape kids or don't watch porn, which aren't taboos but sins.>>24687425>And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.Did you know people who hate Christ have made the most hospitals, schools, and created numerous shelters for the poor, abused, and neglected? Oh wait, lol, they don't at all. Romans used to throw their babies out when they didn't feel like having them and Christians were thought wretched for taking care of them. Cute, right? Maybe you should go read a science book on how to lie and that will help. Or perhaps another TED talk. Have you tried meditating? Maybe a therapist? What about going for walks or lifting weighrs? Maybe you could look up old myths on your iPhone? Or, you could embrace the true Faith and eat God.
>>24687983>Romans used to throw their babies out when they didn't feel like having themBased. If we as a society collectively did this to ethnic social welfare babies quite a few major problems would be solved
>>24681964Anon, the Christians' number one enemy in "pagan" Europe were non-trinitatian christians who got there earlier
>>24682689Shinto was invented during the Meiji era to be the "native" Japanese equivalent of state-backed Christian religions as part of the Meije reformations to Westernize and modernize the Japanese state
>>24688072You're retarded
>>24688076Look it up
>>24688093Shinto already existed you're thinking of "state shinto"
>>24687983>true Faith Such things don't exist
>>24688064Genetic quality is not quantifiable nor is it a meaningful input to morality but rather strictly for expectation setting of how certain people can perform on particular amoral tasks.>>24688238It's called Catholicism.>wahhhh they don't eat GodSure thing; whatever keeps you under the devil's lies and dominion.
>>24682957Imagine the pagan world. It's not a world without gods; it's a world overflowing with them. A god in every river, a nymph in every grove, a spirit in your hearth. The divine is everywhere, but it is also indifferent.The fundamental relationship with the divine was transactional. You give to get. You make a sacrifice at the temple of Neptune so that your trade ship doesn’t sink. You offer a lamb to Mars so that your son returns from war. There’s no guarantee. The gods are powerful, but they are also capricious, mirroring the chaos of nature itself. They get jealous, they have affairs, they play favorites. Your fate is a negotiation, and you have very little leverage.Love is not a Transaction. This was the atomic bomb. Christianity didn't say, "Appease God or he might smite you." It said, "God loves you so much he chose to be smitten for you." Think about the emotional power of that. This wasn't a god demanding sacrifice from you; this was a god who sacrificed himself. For you. Personally. The divine was no longer a force to be negotiated with, but a person to have a relationship with. This offered a profound sense of personal worth that the pagan world simply couldn't match. Christ also offered victory over the ultimate enemy: Death. The ancient world was drenched in death. Infant mortality was staggering, plines could wipe out cities, and life was cheap. The best paganism offered was a shadowy, bleak afterlife in the Underworld—Hades, a place of whispers and regret. Christianity burst in with a shocking declaration: "Death is not the end. In fact, it has been defeated." The Resurrection was the ultimate hope. It promised that the pain, loss, and injustice of this world were not the final word. This wasn't just comfort; it was a revolution of hope against the deepest, darkest human fear. God redeemed the cross, a image of brutality to save humanity from itself. The cross is not a monument of love, and shows God can redeem any bad thing.Paganism was deeply tied to place, family, and ethnicity. Your gods were the gods of your city, your tribe, your household. A stranger had different gods. But Christianity proclaimed one God for all humanity. In a brutally hierarchical empire divided by class, slave, and citizen, the Christian church said: "In here, it doesn't matter. The wealthy Roman patrician and the Greek slave break the same bread and are equals in the eyes of God." This created a powerful, instant community—a true family—for the orphaned, the outcast, the poor, and the dispossessed. It offered belonging in a world where most people had none.
>>24688443I imagine all tradcath larpers to look like this spastic doughboy irl
>>24688543Ancient mystery cults already promised a hope for a much better afterlife centuries before Christ was born
>>24688618look, and act like them too
>>24687983>Pagan taboos were literally women couldn't be in boats or they'd dieAye, a pagan superstition we whalers and seamen kept til recent times. Tell me with all honesty lad, would ye let picrel sail ye across the 7 seas? Would ye trust in yer soul to Neptune, knowing that this face is responsible for your voyage? Nay, ye landlubbers might call us sailors pagans and superstitious quacks....I say ye's a fool, a fool's fool! From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee. Ye damned whale!
>>24688443>It's called Catholicismwhoa ho! sign me up baby
>>24688623Christ defeated death, many of those cultures simply just promised a better shade from the fire. It’s the framework and execution that’s different. The resurrection of the body is that unique difference, your body and soul is redeemed. Heaven wasn’t just a pleasant version of the existing Greek underworld.Plus cults were exclusive, expensive add-ons for a privileged few, requiring secret rituals tied to symbolic myths and language. Christianity, by contrast, demanded total loyalty but offered universal, free access through faith in a person, not a ritual—grounding its promise not in myth, but in a recent, historical event of resurrection. This created a democratized, resilient system that didn't just offer a just a better afterlife but claimed a total victory over death itself, outcompeting the cults by being both universally accessible and theologically revolutionary.Christ defeating death, not improving it, is that but difference in my opinion. It grounded its promise not in recurring myth but in a specific, historical claim—the bodily resurrection of Jesus—which purportedly defeated death itself, not merely improved its conditions. It was this combination of totalizing theological scope and democratic accessibility, and historical conviction as opposed to secretive personal myths that enabled Christianity to organize trans-locally
>>24688690>Heaven wasn’t just a pleasant version of the existing Greek underworld.you know more afterlives than hades existed right? what about the elysian fields? eternal life, fields of golden grass and endless peace doesnt sound like 'better shade from the fire'. or what about the field of reeds in egyptian paganism?
>>24688709The central, unique claim of Christianity is not merely a better afterlife—it is the historical resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. This claim is the foundation. If it is true, it changes everything. If it is false, Christianity is false. I don’t think anybody is saying that Christianity is the only one that offered an afterlife, the argument doesn't rest on "my hope is prettier than yours." It rests on a hope, based on an event that, if true, provides a rational foundation for believing death was actually defeated.The challenge is not to compare the description of the fields. The challenge is to investigate the evidence for the event that supposedly guarantees the fields exist. The entire faith stands or falls on the truth of the resurrection, that’s what makes it very unique. The best explanation, the one that accounts for all of the evidence, is that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead in a physical body. This was not a vague spiritual survival or a mythical allegory. The earliest accounts are intensely physical—he ate food, he could be touched, etc.
>>24688618That freak's actually the only living White tradcath and that's why they got him for the video kek
>>24688443>Genetic quality is not quantifiable nor is it a meaningful input to morality but rather strictly for expectation setting of how certain people can perform on particular amoral tasks.
>>24688738Let me save you some time. It's false.
>>24688618They're mostly philipino or mexican
>>24688738capeshit
>>24688758You're arguing with chatgpt bro
>>24688814Yeah it has the ai lines lol
>>24685303Constantine legalized Christianity but most of the Roman elite were still pagan of his time. If he wanted to enforce his beliefs top down he would’ve forcibly mandated Christianity and outlawed worship of Roman gods similar to how every single Emperor before him outlawed Christianity and made Roman paganism state mandated under threat of death. The only rulers in Rome who mandated religious practices and beliefs to subjugate their cattle populace were pagans. Even viewing plebians and slaves as having value for existing is an alien concept to Romans before Christianity, under pagan ideas everyone who isn’t a warrior or some rich animal sacrificing pagan priest is worthless garbage. You’re literally arguing that a religion that mandated worship of their Emperor as a god somehow had free people that weren’t taken advantage of. You’re delusional and historically illiterate.
>>24688738many Gods and prophets have died and come back to life; by your logic that the evidence of Jesus' ressurection posits upon the historical existence of his cult, we can also say that Odin truly did die and rise again at Yggdrasil, that the Buddha truly did fight off swarms of demons beneath the Bodhi tree, or that Osiris truly was cut into 49 pieces and brought back together based on the historical evidence of each ones respective cult. why would people believe in Odin, unless at some time, he truly did defeat death? in which case your God is not unique; he is still remarkable for having defeated death, but he is not the first nor the last
>this thread
>>24681924This is a comfy one that outlines a huge range of religious and superstitious beliefs and their commonalities around the world and through time. A great foundation from which to explore more specific instances of religious clashes through history.
>>24688859>under pagan ideas everyone who isn’t a warrior or some rich animal sacrificing pagan priest is worthless garbage.disputable 71.The lame can ride horse, the handless drive cattle,the deaf one can fight and prevail,'tis happier for the blind than for him on the bale-fire,but no man hath care for a corpse.
>>24688866>he thinks this is a book threadlmao. I know OP asking about books might give the wrong impression but this is a thread for shitflinging, not books
>>24688861The existence of believing communities for Odin, Buddha, or Osiris validates their myths in the same way the early Church validates Jesus' resurrection commits a critical category error: it conflates timeless, symbolic myths set in a primordial, supernatural past with the specific, historical claim that a man named Jesus of Nazareth was publicly executed and then seen alive again by multiple individuals and groups in Jerusalem in the early first century. The resurrection was presented not as a metaphor for the seasons or a philosophical allegory, but as a unique event that occurred in recent history, under a known Roman official, and its immediate proclamation—by monotheistic Jews who had no cultural expectation of a crucified and resurrected Messiah—caused a rapid, explanatorily awkward explosion of a movement that transformed their core theological beliefs, a sociological fact that demands a historical explanation far more rigorous than the enduring cultural power of a ancient story.
>>24688861Let’s be real tho, those stories are just myths. It conflates mythological narratives with historical claims by treating all "evidence" from a religion's tradition as equivalent. It assumes that because a story is ancient and believed, it must have a historical core in the same way. Jesus at least existed, these storie are set in a supernatural past—"in the time of the gods." They are symbolic narratives meant to explain the nature of the world, the seasons, wisdom, or the human condition. No serious historian investigates the "historical event" of Odin hanging on Yggdrasil because it was never presented as a historical event that occurred in a specific year in a specific place, witnessed by ordinary people. It exists in the realm of sacred story, not history.
>>24681924The Internet Sacred Texts Archive (sacred-texts.com) has what public-domain texts are available on that subject.
>>24688861I think the reason why paganism failed is because they have no doctrine at all, just subjective rituals. this sort of dumb take is the problem, do some people not understand the difference is the genre of the literature? Comparing the two is like comparing a history book about the Battle of Gettysburg to a comic book about the Battle of Wakanda. Both are about battles, but they make fundamentally different kinds of truth claims. The subjective myths and beliefs of tribes are too fluid and insanely superstitious and manmade. paganism back then was like the kind of stuff you’re would listen to your superstitious grandma would say. That’s what it was.
>>24688899Jesus existed but it can't be proven he actually resurrected. And archaeology has proven there is a historical core to many Greek myths at least while someone true most important biblical stories have been proven false.
>>24688914>I think the reason why paganism failed is because they have no doctrine at all, just subjective rituals.And yet Shinto survives, despite being very similar in that regard.
>>24688914>paganism back then was like the kind of stuff you’re would listen to your superstitious grandma would sayWhat an absolutely disgusting take. Just look at some of the awe inspiring art and architecture produced by pre Abrahamic societies and tell me again that they were made just to support old grandmas bed time stories
>>24688933for me its pergamom aka 'satans throne' from revelations. I can see why it made the jewchuddies envious
>>24688917This isn't a statement of faith, but a conclusion based on a set of facts Jesus was publicly executed and buried in a known tomb. Just days later, that tomb was empty. His enemies, the Jewish authorities, never produced the body to stop the growing Christian movement. The best they could do was spread a rumor that the disciples stole it (Matthew 28:11-15).The resurrection wasn't a vague spiritual idea; it was based on specific, claimed physical appearances to a wide variety of people: To his disciples, who were hiding in fear. To his brother James, who was previously a skeptic and thought Jesus was out of his mind (Mark 3:21). To Saul of Tarsus, a violent persecutor of the church who was converted by his experience and became the Apostle Paul.This is powerful because it includes not just friends, but skeptics and enemies. These people didn't just "feel" something; they were convinced they had encountered a man brought back to life. And they all existed.The transformation of the disciples are also a big deal you can’t ignore. This is the core of the argument. Before the resurrection, the disciples were cowards. Peter denied even knowing Jesus to a servant girl. They all fled and hid. Afterward, they were completely different. They preached fearlessly in Jerusalem—the very city where Jesus was killed—directly confronting the authorities who had him executed. They endured beatings, imprisonment, and ultimately, death for their claim.People will die for a lie they believe is true. But they will not die for a lie they themselves invented. If the disciples say had stolen the body and made the whole thing up, they would have known it was a lie. The idea that every single one of them maintained this lie in the face of torture and execution is psychologically impossible. Their radical transformation only makes sense if they were utterly convinced, by overwhelming evidence, that they had seen Jesus alive.The Christian church was born and grew exponentially in Jerusalem under intense persecution. Its central, founding message was the resurrection of a crucified man. For a monotheistic Jew, the idea of a crucified Messiah was a scandal and a contradiction. Yet, thousands of Jews became followers almost overnight. This only makes sense if something powerful—like the empty tomb and eyewitness testimony—convinced them this shocking event was true.
I'm fine with being called a larper because I'm more superstitious than actually religious but paganism is more emotionally fulfilling to me than christianity. Wotan riding on the wind stirring madness and furry, the brutality of Thor smashing the clouds with thunder, Freya hypnotizing you to foolishness with love, even just dancing drunk around a fire for a god who's name I don't even know is more satisfying to me than the premise that Jesus redeemed my soul.
>>24688859>The only rulers in Rome who mandated religious practices and beliefs to subjugate their cattle populace were pagans.Completely untrue
>>24688886>>24688899>>24688944Quit spamming this AI dogshit Paco. Christcucks can't even post without an AI jewdaddy writing for them
>>24688942>>24688933You won't find salvation in a statue. That's the pinnacle of your superstition. They make for decent art, I suppose—but art is not what the soul truly craves. This isn't reality; it's just a feeling.>”Ugh, statues. The West is saved!"How many of you would actually face persecution for a piece of stone? I know I wouldn't.
>>24688947Yeah Jesus is jewish so that makes sense
>>24688977Kill yourself ChatGPTranny
>>24688977The point isn't the piece of stone, any more than the point of a crucifix is the piece of wood itself, it's what it symbolizes or depicts.
Christcucks that have put any amount of thought into their own religion without abandoning inevitably warp themselves into something grotesque. Nietzsche was correct about everything he ever wrote
>>24688977>but art is not what the soul truly cravesart, from latin, means skill or accomplishment. what else is there in life to crave but to hone ones skills and accomplishments to better praise the Gods? you mistake the shadow for the form>How many of you would actually face persecution for a piece of stone? I know I wouldn't.some men are men. some are cowards. some men are willing to die for the ashes of their fathers and the temples of their gods. some are willing to stand around and let things happen
>>24688985Ok, but it’s still an aesthetic comfort deep down, both cults and Christianity has made some pretty good art, but what are they deep down? In my opinion at least, modern neo-“Pagans” and some sense of modernity shares one thing I find in common, and that’s the ultimate triumph of sentiment over substance, of aesthetic comfort over hard truth. it’s pretty, it’s comfortable, it asks nothing of you, and it means absolutely nothing to me.At its core, I think modern paganism and some of those cults, not all of them but most, is a celebration of feels over reals. It projects human emotions onto the blind forces of nature, the thunder isn’t electrical discharge; it’s Zeus having a bad day. The harvest isn’t the result of soil and rain; it’s the generosity of Demeter. It’s a comforting story, a way to make a cold and indifferent universe seem personal, understandable. But it’s a story we tell ourselves, not one that tells us anything true about the world.There’s no true ultimate justice, no foundation for morality beyond might-makes-right or capricious divine whims. Its gods are just superhumans, these petty, jealous, lustful, and flawed—so worshipping them is just bowing to a bigger, more powerful bully. There’s no redemption in it, only appeasement. No purpose, only ritual. No truth, only vibes and memes and all that stuff.
>>24688995I can understand the deep beauty and meaning people find in ancient traditions and art. There's a profound human desire to connect with history and the transcendent through culture and through the statues, stories, and symbols passed down through generations. They remind us of who we are and where we’ve come from.But I’ve come to believe that while culture can reflect glory, it cannot itself give glory. Art can point toward the divine, but it cannot replace the Divine. We are not just cultural beings—we are spiritual beings. We long not just for beauty, but for truth; not just for tradition, but for transformation. Our deepest struggles—the pull of selfishness, the weight of wrongdoing, the fear of emptiness—can’t be answered by stone or story alone. We need grace. We need something—Someone—from outside of us, beyond our culture, beyond our art, beyond even ourselves.For me, that is where Christ enters. He doesn’t dismiss our cultures; He fulfills them. He doesn’t destroy beauty; He is the source of it. In Him, I’ve found a peace that isn’t dependent on circumstances, a love that isn’t based on my performance, and a truth that doesn’t change with the times.
>>24689002>>24689020AI shit
>>24689020>>24689002that other anon was right you are literally just a chatGPT bot lmfao
>>24688875Oops, my bad. Carry on.
