If Aleister Crowley was such a great occulist then why he couldn't he save himself from going bald? Same with Austin Osman Spare, he was bald and miserable and died in poverty.
The ability to fuck with minds is no joke.
>>24685559They accepted their baldness like men and didn't worry about it so much?
of course it’s a larp but the people doing it think it’s real
>>24685581His mind is bald >>24685591They claim that they can influence world events and shit and yet can't save themselves from poverty and balding? What about retaining youth?
>>24685603I think that Crowlite-masonheads having moved some of the threads of recent history influenced by that bald sex-freak was the point of what he was trying to do instead of fixing his baldness or poverty, thus it'd be a larp if by occult you mean le magic fireball out of hand mystic shyt instead of the mild -in the short term- influence that Crowly probably saw in it
>>24685646I mean fucking Alex Jones teaching have also influenced American politics it doesn't mean shit. Occult talks of supernatural interventions and yet they have no control over body? It is funny that truths of body are iron clad. No occult larper can change that.
>>24685559sacrificing your hair is one of the most important steps for attaining the grade of Magus
>>24685559Even if we take 20th century luminaries of the occult you'll see they weren't all there>Crowley>Gay, impulsive, masochistic, proto-troon/would have trooned out if he were alive today (Research Crowley's crossdressing)>Spare>Promising artist; ended up poor; probably had a mental illness; maybe autism>Grant >Undiluted example of paranoid delusions (demonic powers outside the universe intruding into the world) with a heavy sexual element: standart asylum fare>Chumbley>The same as above, with the addition of voodoo dissociative fugue states (possession) and necrophilia I've read all the four above and I found their philosophy boring and their imagination lacking. Lovecraft, a hardcore materialist - so hardcore he would've given the fedoras the shivers - actually wrote about "occult" entities in more imaginative and creative ways than all the authors above combined, who mined the past for inspiration because it's anathema in the occult to come up with something novel. His books were so creative that Grant tried to fit Cthulhu and the others in his paranoid-sexual variant of Thelema.The only thing you'll get out of the occult is an experience in schizophrenic ways of perceiving reality. There's more spirituality in one blotter of LSD than in the hundreds of books written by contemporary occultists. So save yourself some trouble, don't waste your money on Chumbley's cum diary, buy some acid, understand that all occult is crap and that tested spiritual methods like meditation work best.
>>24685799>>24685559Because, after the Enlightenment, the only people who remained in the occult were the psychologically damaged ones. Historically, occult meant hidden forces of nature - see Hanegraaff entry in his encyclopedia of Esotericism - but with the development of sciences these hidden forces cease to be so hidden and the rational half of magic and alchemy and natural philosophy moved into new fields like physics and chemistry and botany and geology. So only the schizos remained, who couldn't get away from the occult enchanted reality because the occult enchanted reality is the perfect playground for the schizos, the BPDs, the molested to act out their childhood traumas and fucked up perception. Here, let's take the story of a guy names Seth. Seth lived in a broken home where his alcoholic father beat him up and cored out his ass nightly. At age of fourteen, Seth discovers Goetia. He begins invoking demons, as way to minimize the low self esteem and to restore the feeling of being in control. He isn't his dad's fucktoy. He is someone invoking demons. Notice how the element of psychodrama enters into Seth's practice - he's dealing with demons as a subconscious way to deal with his sadistic father. So, the occult provides Seth with a release valve. With age Seth goes deeper into the occult., getting into 09A, Thelema, and finally the last resort of the deeply ill, the Cultus Sabbati. In these groups he relieves he justified his anger by ritually killing animals and ritually fucking corpses and ritually taking drugs and he relives the experience of being molested in a controlled way by becoming possessed by various evil deities and he relives the experience of being in the hands of his alcoholic father through various negotiation with demons. All of this is mired in a dissociated schizophrenic traumatic reaction where the world is filled with unseen, often evil and powerful, forces - see the motive of CSA reoccurring again. Seth thinks he's getting powers, getting enlightened, controlling his destiny, even though he can't form normal long lasting relationships due to his BPD personality and lives poorer than the average and mishandles his finances and even can't organize his thoughts in a coherent way. And this one - and rather standard - case in th occulture, which is the most dysfunctional area of human activity because everyone there is mentally ill. If you know how to listen and how to ask the right question, you'll learn enough of a person to see how his or her life is reflected in their occult practice, which is often an acting out of childhood traumas and a justification for kinks and immoral behaviour.
>>24685799Please redpill me on Kenneth Grant
>>24685799>>24685803Great take down. Thank you for writing this. But why occult aesthetics are kino? I think O9A is retarded but their music and visuals are fire why is that? Also can you please shed some light on Rosicrucianism and Ludwig Klages?
You don’t need mind control powers to mind control people. You just need to find the right sheep.
>>24685672To answer the question Crowley was afaik evil (additionally that ugly mf Evola’s endorsement of him puts him under suspicion) so his mastery of magic isnt going to go along with good health, quite the opposite. That isn't to say balding is a sign of evil, it actually seems to be most correlated with bourgoueis discipline, but all physical traits all physiognomical of the spirit. Magic isn’t some kind of automatic guarantee of personal wishes
>>24685559His daughter Barbara Bush became First Lady. Most would sacrifice some hair to have power over others.
>>24685803>the development of sciences these hidden forces cease to be so hidden and the rational half of magic and alchemy and natural philosophy moved into new fields like physics and chemistry and botany and geology. So only the schizos remainedAs if empirical science could ever reach absolute truth and prove once and for all that these supposed schizos are mentally ill—but they can't, because empirical science is by its nature always incomplete and cannot rule out laws and forces beyond its present understanding.
>>24685799>>24685803Really fascinating and wonderful description, and yet I would add:At the very same time, a supernatural reality could well exist, be interacted with either more positively or more dangerously, and also genuinely intersect in parts with various examples you’re giving. At the same time as all these psychosocial elements are here and entirely worthy of bringing up.
>>24685672>evil satanist crypto-tranny rejects his bodywhoa
>>24685799>LSDLmao lazy chemical junkie.
>>2468579920th century western occult BTFO
He was huffing ether 24/7 among other things. A creative liar too
>>24685559>If Aleister Crowley was such a great occulist then why he couldn't he save himself from going bald?Perhaps because doing such a feat, contravening the laws of nature, requires a titanic amount of power? Perhaps because consorting with unknown forces, whether physical (drugs, sex) or magical, can have disintegrating effects?Here's your problem, OP. You are a wholly u n c r e a t i v e "person". A hylic. You can't even analyze your own question, but rather opt to "consult" with a board filled with low IQ dilettantes. The occult is not for you.>>24685803Another uncreative moron that pathologizes everything.
>>24686612this is an honest question, what's the point of the occult then? It seems that by and large occultists live significantly worse lives that average people. Take for example contemporary occult writer John Michael Greer, he lives in abject poverty and struggles to feed himself by his own admission. What does occultism even do or get you if it is unable to materially benefit you in any way? Occultists seem to me to be neither happier, more sociable, more well off, healthier, or even at peace with the world than non-occultists. I legitimately don't understand the appeal if the knowledge gained from the occult is useless for quite literally every human pursuit beyond impressing weird girls in your undergrad humanities program.
>>24686834>What does occultism even do or get you if it is unable to materially benefit you in any way?Does Soros use Kabbalah to make trades? This is kind of funny because I realize I only was ever interested in the occult because I had some vague notion of achieving material success through it, lol. My actual spiritual interests were beyond that kind of thing.
>>24686855>My actual spiritual interests were beyond that kind of thing.This is why it's pointless arguing with this type of retard. The same type who would say >why are you learning an ancient language?
>>24686864I literally learned Attic Greek and Classical Latin as part of my undergrad years ago lol. I enjoy learning ancient languages because they're fun for me and allowed me a whole world of literature to enjoy. What do you mean by spiritual interests though? I'm genuinely curious as to what attracts people to the occult then that they cant get from other activities.
>>24686612Outer is the manifestation of the inner. You are a retard if you think that body is not important. If you can not sculpt your body all of your claims of mental phenomena ought to be discarded.
>>24686934I'm not sure exactly what's you guys are arguing, but I will say everything is technically occult, everything has a deeper cause that is hidden from "normal" consciousness, but these modern magicians just seem kind of weird and unenviable
>>24686941xased skeptic philosopher chad. Occultards BTFO
>>24686941cringe retard.
>>24686953Cope and seethe harder, Seth
>>24686612>consorting with unknown forces, whether physical (drugs, sex)Unknown to u lol
>>24686967gay and denial-coded
>>24686968exactly we explorers of the dark sciences know better
>>24686985You were raped by your occult teacher, I feel sorry for you.
>>24685799I cannot refute a single thing you just said.
>>24686855>use Kabbalah to make tradesThat's just a cover for insider trading lol. Jewish occutism is about fulfilling their racial supremacist religious aims.
>>24686993objectively false and fear-radiating
>>24687019It was a joke> Jewish occutism is about fulfilling their racial supremacist religious aims.I never really got that impression, it seemed like one of least problematic aspects of Judaism. I could never really "get it" though
>>24687031>never really got that impression, it seemed like one of least problematic aspects of Judaismlmao. being enslaved and holocausted sound good to you
>>24687047But that's not Kabbalah though, which is more like Jewish Sufism. Is that quote real lol? The ending is important, Weininger say the essence of the criminal (evil) is functionalism, which is quite profound.
>>24687072>more like Jewish SufismIt's about generation of life, knowledge plagiarized and repackaged from the cultures they swindled. Racial biomancy essentially
young crowley a cute
>>24687106
>>24687105But this seems like a departure from regular Judaism of superstitious fear and sentimentality
>>24687106He was raping witches in the jungle at that time.
I was raumzeitler on X but I deleted my account.
Wail, O ye folk of the grey land, for we have drunk your wine, and left ye but the bitter dregs.
>>24687114Right, majority of jews are just as controlled by elites as christians. Regular exoteric version about being hyper-obedient for the masses, esoteric atheistic version about being the mind of god for the rich and powerful. It's a multi-faceted thing>>24687113fugly
>>24686834Your problem is that you assume that since open occultists are failures, that this is the case for the whole of the practitioners of the arts.Clearly, you haven't looked into the "occult", nor philosophy, nor history, nor to "mainstream" science enough to have gathered a sufficient conviction of the possibility of "occult" phenomena so as to justify serious inquiry into it. And more importantly, you lack the creativity to intuit the right questions.Let me give you a simple analogy for your simple brain. If I have knowledge of how the stock market will turn out tomorrow, why would I go around making it public? That would completely eliminate my profits. Why would you trust any supposed "occultist" who is public, who even flaunts and wishes to be known as an "occultist"?>>24686941Of course. Did I disagree with that? You're too dumb to read.
>Consider Huysmans, Mallarmé or—in the visual arts—Delvaux; these appeared not to 'live the life outwardly'. Huysmans with his safe employment at the Bureau; Mallarmé, the respectable teacher of English; Delvaux, established as head of an Academy of Art in Belgium. The quality of their work yields the answer.
>>24685559>Plymouth Bretheren, affluent family Scofeld Bible Dispensational Ziovangelical work on Americans>PsyOp spook on the penultimate Lusitania voyageRemote Viewing and Cryptography before they had become sciences and operationalized practices under *formal* state level espionage requirements. Before that, metaphysical speculation without catching heresy charges. There is a fake it until you theurgically make it element that discards it past a [spoilern]'abyss crossing' point which could be called and looks like LARP.
>>24687150Exactly. So uh, any book recs for an aspiring scientific illuminist?
>>24686967Do you speak of the ape?
>>24687197I speak of Shugal. How about that?
>>24685803Intimidatingly intelligent post
>>24687150So you expect me to believe on the basis of quite literally no evidence that people in power are secretly occultists and that's why they're in power? Are you retarded? I have been paid to study the occult as a historical phenomenon as part of my career in Classics and academia. I'm familiar with the corpus hermeticum, I've translated Ptolemy's Tetrabiblios, Cornelius Aggripa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy, I've lectured on the mysticism of Paracelsus, and I helped with a recent translation of Moses de Leon's Zohar. Literally all of it seems to me to be premodern pseudoscientific nonsense that makes claims that can quite literally never be validated or never be falsified. What sort of history and mainstream science do you recommend to give someone "sufficient conviction of the possibility of 'occult' phenomena?"
>>24687260>Literally>Literally >Literallyso like basically like literally?
>>24687266why would an occultist who understands the secrets of the world and wields immense power spend time arguing on 4chan. Again, are you retarded?
>>24687260>mainstream science
>>24687260What are some of their "out there" claims? What's the deal with Aggripa?
>>24687271so...like literally?
>>24687285Shut up faggot. You no argument against him.
>>24687239something a midwit would sayrefuted by>>24686121
>>24687287you are like literally seething rn
>>24687301Back to plebbit troon.
>>24685803Ape seems to be doing alright but you're still obsessing over something he said to you a decade ago
>>24687311ummmm wow like that is literally racist and fatphobix
I come from a long line of schizos that have been legitimately involved with shit like Freemasons, Rosicrucians (supposedly) and a whole range of occult bullshit like Golden Dawn.What do they have in common with all the major occult practitioners that were historically looked up to like Crowley? They accomplished absolutely fucking nothing, and I mean that sincerely. Every major occult figure was a burnout loser that threw their life away and the people that follow them are no different.This anon is completely right >>24685799You'll have a superior "spiritual experience" hitting acid or eating a higher dose of shrooms.The most generous interpretation of the occult I can possibly give is that for somebody that I would call "super normal" as in you're incredibly well adjusted and not prone to being a schizophrenic moron, it offers a system of thought you can apply to your life to develop a unique sense of self-control.There are simpler methods to achieve this though, like basic shamatha.This isn't me advocating for materialism either, by the way, its just the occult post enlightenment period is a genuine grift. Also people in this thread citing ape, forgetting ape has forgone most of this shit and thrown himself into Buddhist practice.
>>24687328>They accomplished absolutely fucking nothing, and I mean that sincerely. Every major occult figure was a burnout loser that threw their life away and the people that follow them are no different.cope. they didn't store up for themselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But stored up for themselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
>>24687117I followed you. Why did you delete? Were you the estoric kantanon?
>>24687343True, and you should do the same and really work on building up your very special treasures not of this place.
>>24687328>Also people in this thread citing ape, forgetting ape has forgone most of this shit and thrown himself into Buddhist practice.He wanted to "speedrun enlightenment"
>>24687328Who is ape?
>>24687357https://archive.4plebs.org/x/search/username/The%20ape%20of/order/asc/
>>24687353naw not for me. I'm to much of a wuss to actually take it seriously, because as anyone who knows basic epistemology is aware of, there's always a chance it could be real, and no empirically obtained "scientific" theory can ever prove otherwise.
>>24687355That's literally Crowley's whole thing. Does no one read the Equinox?
>>24687367In the end you don't have to justify any of your beliefs, regardless of whether or not they can or cannot be proven, just do what makes you feel best or improves your life.Getting trapped by epistemology is quite possibly the most cucked thing you can do. We can take this further and even say there isn't even anything that can be empirically proven if you want to go the route of Agrippa's trilemma, nor can anything be empirically disproven.Suspension of judgement and entering the realm of feeling will be good for you, promise. Even if you end up as a retard believing you're building some spiritual storehouse to utilize in your heavenly form.>>24687355I don't know much about Buddhism in general, but I do know a lot of former occultists end up there. Heard it cited its a much more obvious path, but I've also heard Vajrayana is dangerous as fuck, even with a legitimate teacher. I'm cool with pretty much any form of Buddhism other than Vajrayana, seems more like Lamaism than anything with the emphasis on perfect devotion to some random dude from nepal/tibet who just happened to be recognized as the reincarnation of XYZ guru.>>24687370I think the point is everyone knows crowley is a retard. That may have been his goal, but it doesn't really matter.
>>24687370I think in addition to speedrunning it Ape also wanted the highest score
>>24687385Crowley is not a retard. He is a turbo genius and you know it. And he's still alive and he's happy. And also the only solution to the epistemological problem is Absolute Idealism, I assure you that I am past the 'suspension of judgment' and 'realm of feeling' phase.
>>24687424>He is a turbo genius and you know it. And he's still alive and he's happy.Proofs?
>>24687260>So you expect me to believe on the basis of quite literally no evidence that people in power are secretly occultists and that's why they're in power?It's very well documented historically, and contemporary people in power regularly expose themselves through symbolism. So I wouldn't say that there is "quite literally no evidence".>Literally all of it seems to me to be premodern pseudoscientific nonsense that makes claims that can quite literally never be validated or never be falsified.You just lack the creative spirit required. Not much I can do for you with that problem of yours. You posted some commie picture, so that says everything about you. Your plebeian soul can never accept a domain of knowledge that is not accessible to the profane orgiastic promiscuous masses.>What sort of history and mainstream science do you recommend to give someone "sufficient conviction of the possibility of 'occult' phenomena?"Being generally cultured. Having done one's reading on history, ethnology, philosophy, religion. All of this, combined, along with a creative, inquisitive spirit, cannot but help make one wonder. Simply being alive and perplexed at the mysterious nature of one's experience should be enough to set out on the search, but that's too much to ask of you.At the very least, any intelligent person is struck by the placebo effect, and wonders how far this phenomenon can be taken. At the very least, any intelligent person considers it highly that magic be effective even if only so far as potentially a very potent psychological tool.>>24687328>They accomplished absolutely fucking nothing, and I mean that sincerely. Every major occult figure was a burnout loser that threw their life away and the people that follow them are no different.What about figures such as Alexander, initiated into the Mysteries, you buffoon? The various American (both north and south) revolutionaries, Garibaldi, etc etc. One could name many occultists who have certainly "accomplished something". Perhaps it is your "long line of schizos" who are losers and use the "occult" to cope.>You'll have a superior "spiritual experience" hitting acid or eating a higher dose of shrooms.This is all one needs to hear from you. You are an imbecile. Go read "trip reports". Drugs induce nothing but profane incoherent babble experiences out of some normalfag's deep psyche at best, and at worst delude them completely whether spiritually or otherwise. Nothing to do with the ancient use of drugs by shamans and such, the inner and outer techniques of which have probably been lost.>>24687385>I don't know much about Buddhism in general, but I do know a lot of former occultists end up there.Buddhism is basic level occultism.
>>24685559yes occultism is just a LARP
>>24687352yes twas I. my views were too extreme even for X. against all appearances X is still normie coded.
>>24688248Honestly at first I joined just to talk to anna bc I had an intellectual crush on her and she was obviously influenced by my posting on here, but then she went full christcuck and I lost interest. the only other cool poster I liked was Galactic Troubador, but idk i was wasting too much time on the app just liking big tiddie goth egirl thirsttraps and it was taking me away from my true passion of systematic speculative philosophy. plus I was delusional thinking I could ever make like minded friends on X. my schizoid personality disorder and dysthimia would never let that happen.
>>24685813monkey mode
>>24687343>calls other post a cope>posts ultimate cope himself
>>24686834I think it’s true, there’s a big aberration in Western occultism.They can go down a dark path, be spiritually swallowed up. Often from getting into some splintered, potentially dangerous pseudotradition, which indeed has something like shells or remnants of spiritual power, but in a corrupted or decayed way. They can still have their experiences of non-ordinary reality which seem to confirm their occult path. Instances of ESP or clairvoyance, converse with a spirit world, states of samadhi, or entrances into unique trance-states or bizarre states-of-consciousness, likewise tied to these magical or paranormal phenomena.Despite that I agree with some criticisms of Crowley, and believe he got swallowed up by some egomania, I still also think you’re looking at this in too quaintly materialistic a way.Even with these criticisms of Crowley, the quality of his life was still fascinating. You can bring up the seeming negatives and material failures, but he was still an erudite mad genius who created a tremendous body of work on ceremonial magic and the occult (variously overlapping with mysticism, poetry, philosophy, theology, comparative religion including Eastern religions, even psychology and sometimes discourses on the sciences, politics, literature and art, history, any major field of human endeavor), artist, poet, novelist, a reputable mountaineer, and grew to have a massive, only-partially-underground influence on modern Western culture.>>24687172Also a good short post>Remote Viewing and Cryptography before they had become sciences and operationalized practices under *formal* state level espionage requirements. Before that, metaphysical speculation without catching heresy charges. There is a fake it until you theurgically make it element that discards it past a [spoilern]'abyss crossing' [sic] point which could be called and looks like LARP.Yes, in partA very good, benevolently oriented, not necessarily so sinister-and-deranged entry to the occult is Robert Anton Wilson. He veers towards a sort of scientism and brainy clever anti-religion mindset at times, but other times has wondrous mystical insights, and his multi-model framework is a very helpful and mind-expanding way of entering into this. I think a psychological or neuropsychological approach as he sometimes takes actually is very interesting and relevant in some of this, but again it’s only one model, others can criticize it as “reducing the spiritual to the psychological (or neuroscientific)”. But I like to think more in terms of complementarity, both-and.He also speaks as someone directly participating in some of this, not just some skeptical academic entirely outside of it or only blandly talking about its history.“Prometheus Rising” and “Cosmic Trigger” (Vol. 1) are the books to read, they’ll answer stuff about why people get into the occult and any positives they get out of it probably better than any posts here can do. Along with its risks
None of you know what magic is. You need to start listening to people like Alan Moore. It’s pure psychology. Art. That’s all it is. It’s the mind’s eye. It’s a way of looking at the world. Tolkien knew this. It’s why his elves don’t believe in magic. They don’t see themselves as magic. It’s just Art to them. Gandalf goes out of his way to cosplay as a wizard.
>>24688248Holy shit that was you?
In Natures infinite booke of Secrecie, a little Ican read.
>>24688278important corresponding film
>>24688346Humans want something more special in life, and they fall into a spell of desperate delusion. They put themselves in position to be ensorcelled by charlatans, and what is a sorcerer if not a charlatan who has a lot more presence? A true wizard, or the sage, won’t necessarily see themselves as such. They won’t necessarily go out of their way to weaponize ignorance, though they use it conveniently to enchant others the same way a stage magician enchants others.
>>24688362>Christopher Walken lol anything he is in you know it's the good good. much appreciated
>>24685559Bataille is the only 20th century "occultist" that is worth reading.
>>24688445ok why tho?
>>24688456Cause it's a materialist cosmology. Essentially demystifying religion. Too drunk to say more rn
>>24685559Yes. Study natural order, field theory and maths.
Existence, like tea, can be taken strong or weak. Speculative philosophy characteristically defends a strong theory of existence, while other kinds of philosophy strenuously defend a weak theory. So fundamental is the difference between strong and weak theories of existence to any account we give of the nature of things that the debate between them lies at the very heart of philosophy.Admittedly, weak theorists would regard such a claim as contentious, for weak theorists characteristically understand existence in terms of the analysis which Frege developed in the 1880s: statements of the type ‘horses exist’ are interpreted as quantificational statements to the effect that ‘for some x, x is a horse’. On this view, existence amounts to no more than the satisfaction or instantiation of a predicate, such as ‘ … is a horse’. To exist is to answer a description. Whether one is talking about prime numbers, stones, or people, existence statements are defined in the same way, as saying that something satisfies a description. The weak theory of existence is thus not properly a theory of existence at all. Existence is simply removed from the realm of reflection and replaced by an account of the logical structure of language. Yet such claims do not impress strong theorists, the speculative philosophers, for speculative philosophy holds that existence is more than the silent, featureless pendant of the ‘existential’ quantifier (‘for some x’). The ‘is’ of existence is not to be reduced to the ‘is’ of instantiation.
>>24688269No offense, bud, but... fella skitzo here, been on twitter, off twitter, accelerationist meme lord, occultnik retard, much more, been in Hegelian egirl chats, studied wee Latin and Greek like classicist anon. Esoteric Kantianism is dumb. Just pick a post-Kantian and stick w them. It's more intellectually palpatable. I would suggest Maimon.>>24688465He's a better writer than Crowley but neither are saints which is allegedly what Crowley sought according to Liber ABA / Equinox / etc.>>24688346Yr materially cucked. Unless you expand definitions of mind and art so much as to make them supernatural.>>24687328mysticism>occultism>drugs>atheism
What are the best occult books?
>>24688632
>>24688647>Esoteric Kantianism is dumb.yea you're right sorry everyone
>>24688647>I would suggest Maimon.Eschenmeyer. Pick Eschenmeyer.
>>24688648EliadeYatesJungCorbinEvolaGuenonCulianuMageeFaivreGodwinGoodrick-ClarkeKripalHanegraafLehrichGunnCheakTilton
Occultism is about using hidden meanings, basically cryptography using words.They can't actually light candles or bend spoons with their minds.They can become cult leaders and if enough important people join the cult it'll eventually be used for networking, leading to an increase in popularity and a strengthening of the cult leader's worldly power. Even without the occult aspect you can get the same results ofc.
>>24688657It's a worthy idea. Just needs better packaging. Presentation is important. Appearance and reality and all>>24688663Pill me on this homie?
>>24685835NTA but Rosicrucianism was like Landian hyperstition but back in day for like alchemical theosophic christianity. Major part of eventual occult revival...>KlagesA bit sketch character wise but Cosmogonic Eros is a decent book imo>pccult aesthetics are kinoFr. I love Spare and Chumbley's drawing altho >>24685799 is basically right about their lives.>>24685803You mention Hanegraaf. His latest update of guide for perplexed was interesting if a bit cucked. He mentions however popular occulture especially with artists. Not everyone is a CSA victim or a psychopath. Some are just skitzotypal and honestly true mysticism is kinda supressed in west and magic seems to offer a splash of that albeit with modern egotistical bs as well which is why tis inferior generally... but um. Ya. There are some successful artistic types in field
>>24688685Basically real life van helsing but german idealist
>>24685734This it’s like he hasn’t even read the first law trilogy
>>24685734Bros is this truuuuuuuu?
Public service announcement:Some things are better left unsaid. Really.
>>24685799>>24685803Yes.I had friends in occult circles, and did a bunch of reading myself when I was in my awkward dope smoking acid tripping phase. Most of them are broken superannuated teenagers who never got out of the dope smoking acid tripping phase. All of them had really tyrannical parents (Crowley did also). One dude was an early Apple employee and should have had an easy life: I'm pretty sure his girlfriend poisoned him. Anyway he died young. Another was a voodoo priestess who would do spells to get a job (the dude she was fucking got her a job, big success); S&M devotee, weirdo. Her job lasted a few months; I think she's been unemployed ever since. Another guy, trustafarian, never had a job, spent his days shitpoasting about magick. Would occasionally have weird parties involving strippers and pig blood. Still spends his days shitpoasting about magick. Another guy quit a promising career to study mushrooms after eating too many of them. I think 20 years later he's still a grad student. Another guy I randomly met in the gym sold auto parts, but had magickal warfare with other warlocks of evenings. Had a terrible physique: fat, retarded looking. The stories I'd hear about people in their cults; people dying of flesh eating bacteria, people dying of brain tumors, people going to the looney bin, getting run over by a bus. Seems like a really slow and painful way of deleting yourself. The minute someone brings up a topic like this now, I walk in the other direction. Just go to Church bros. Whatever the occultists have discovered ain't good and doesn't make you better.
>>24688766>Whatever the occultists have discovered ain't good and doesn't make you better.selection bias
>>24685799>>24685803I will just add to these excellent posts that, in my personal experience, the only magical ability possessed by people active in this scene is their capacity to transmute your money into drugs and then those drugs into vomit on your couch. Note also that the modern occult, which holds basically to liberal ideals of freedom as the ability to sate one's appetites and to achieve whatever it is one just so happens to desire, and a sort of moral anti-realism is basically a total inversion of all prior practices in this area. These people claim they are part of a lineage going back to the Middle Ages or Antiquity, but all the related stuff from those periods is deeply religious, spiritual, and philosophical. The philosophy of the pre-moderns is very focused on asceticism, the development of virtue, virtue as a means of attaining true freedom and self-determination, etc. Modern occultism is basically just taking some of the superficial aesthetic forms of the old tradition and then doing modern liberalism over it, with some obscurantistism layered over it. There is also a lot of syncretism, but in a funny sort of way where "really the Platonists and Hindu mystics were actually closer to Nietzsche!"
>>24688798It can often be a harmless phase and a stepping stone to true religion. But essentially much of the modern/postmodern of it is just new age but edgier and more dangerous.
>>24688798>Note also that the modern occult, which holds basically to liberal ideals of freedom as the ability to sate one's appetites and to achieve whatever it is one just so happens to desire, and a sort of moral anti-realism is basically a total inversion of all prior practices in this area. Those are dilettantes. >It can be the case that one is unconscious of his Universal Will. He may believe, indeed, that it is directly opposed to his Will, even though it is his [true] Will.
>>24688647>Yr materially cuckedAnd “Yr” intelligently cucked. If you go against materialism you’re essentially going against whatever you believe in. It’s the same with Christians. They argue God doesn’t exist at all if there’s nothing there to Him. Listen. Replace materialism with there-isn. Is something there? Is it present? Is it real? Physics deals with what is real, not what is physical (although this also works - even space is a fabric of a kind). Just because love is made of chemicals doesn’t mean love isn’t real. Stop watching Rick and Morty.
>>24688847What do you mean by materialism?Naturalism cannot exclude things which may appear supernature as a priori impossible. Otherwise, it just means obeisance to a cliqueish literature and hermeneutic.What is matter? What is idea? Where do you draw the line?Imagination is as important as cognitive architecture and sensual phenomenology to add...Empiricism is essentially groundless. And rationalism is a self-circularity.Man will always have room for beliefs in magic and mysticism.I would really only push back on the idea of reductionism, or determinism, both of which are no longer empirically supported as much as in early modern period.Not to mention our new quantum logics as Quine puts it.Love is chemicals, love is real, and love is more than chemicals, and more real than real.Life is emergent. Mind is emergent. Noosphere is emergent. Psychic causality is legit as Lacan terms it.
>>24688346If magic adds something to these ideas of art and mind's eye then it is not a superfluous term at all. You are missing point as much as those you criticize.
>>24688915Is matter anything with mass, or anything that’s there? Or real? Present? It’s that simple. >Naturalism cannot exclude things which may appear supernature as a priori impossibleFucking ex-act-ly. The supernatural is by default an oxymoron based around one’s familiar or unfamiliarity. >>24688922I didn’t say it was superfluous. Not sure why you’re projecting such a stance on to me. I take issue with boring greyblob atheists (and I don’t consider myself a theist or an atheist either) who struggle seeing the beauty, the mystery, the wonder, and thus the magic, within nature. Their amygdala freaks out. All religion, all hocus pocus, and all accusations of superstition, can be traced back to these vital essences. Hocus pocus and the occult is all superficial, but it’s not exactly superfluous. Art does enchant the mind, and ignorance IS a form of art.
>>24688915>Empiricism is essentially groundlessFrom our perspective? Sure. We can’t exactly get inside another’s head to verify consciousness. Psychology will forever be a soft science, to us. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t Truths out there. The mind that pokes at nature is first formed by nature. Quantum mechanics doesn’t actually prove that life is lolsorandom. That’s just our inability to assess.
>>24688915>I would really only push back on the idea of reductionism, or determinism, both of which are no longer empirically supported as much as in early modern period.Reality isn’t locally real. That’s all Bell’s experiment showed. There are things that move faster than light / local relativity. We know this now. Einstein was right about hidden variables and that bore Bohr can suck it. If you believe in quantum uncertainty you are essentially believing in something coming from nothing, and quantum uncertainty is still too specific to be truly random, or something from nothing.
>>24688915Do you REALLY think that reductionism is even avoidable when even a zero is a one?
>>24688949>Reality isn’t locally real.what does that mean?
>>24688959Reality can’t be both real or local. Both cannot be true.
>>24688963why not?
>>24688937Matter is complex notion. We only see it in in our heads. Yet seems outside. Is tied up w space and time too. But hardly the only thing that matters pardon my pun.Sorry for arguing. I act as if all anons are the same person sometimes.>>24688943I believe there is a problem called something like meta induction problemI do not believe life is so random lol etcBut I think the supreme principle cannot be grasped by empiricism or rationalism aloneOr in the form of a singular system. Tho certainly can be a fun exercise in speculative thoughtThere is perhaps a hidden third between mind and matter
>>24688965Because someone won a Nobel proving why. Look it up.
>>24688969>But I think the supreme principle cannot be grasped by empiricism or rationalism aloneYou’re assuming it’s all one sided. What we can’t poke at, some other alien race might, or not. As Einstein put it, there will be Truth, or science, waiting behind the scenes for all time. He compared physics to a cosmic symphony, playing its cosmic tune with or without our ability to listen in.
>>24688949I meant moresoWe have moved from materialism to physicalismAnd from determinism to probabilismNot to mention particle wave duality supports a nondual viewAs does modern neuropsych which says mind and body and enviros are continuous and not discreteEssentially also accepting various occult forces and occult causalities (in technical use of term)
>>24685559despite being bald he was still able to get laid.
>>24688982Sure yet the symphony imho will always be bigger than the mind of any individual or even alien to grasp
>>24688994Sure. A lot of scientists think we’re limited inherently, since we’re stuck in three dimensions. That doesn’t mean some higher dimensional can’t understand something we don’t, or can’t. It’s like assuming God wouldn’t understand Himself. Of course He would. His capital-m Miracles wouldn’t be capital-m Miraculous to himself. Same way Tolkien’s elves aren’t magical beings to themselves, or how Gandalf isn’t a wizard back home in Valinor.
>>24689012>That doesn’t mean some higher dimensional can’t understand something we don’t, or can’t.A four or fifth dimensional alien could be looking at us inside and out. Spooky.
>>24689012this. everyone read kant right now.
>>24689045God is clearly some sort of higher dimensional godlike lifeform. He’s too big to fit inside our perceptions. This is why he incarnates himself as a three dimensional human being. This is why the ‘holy spirit’ is the equivalent of his fingertip barely grazing the surface. The Trinity is satisfying because it describes a higher dimensional entity.
>>24689050One can critique reason for its (our) limitations rather than reason itself. Reason is not obligated to be understood.
>>24689096this. we must read kant but not stop at kant. he is the necessary and sufficient condition for what we truly need to realize.
>>24685559Crowley had more important things to think about.Who the fuck cares about going bald when you've received the revelation of the Aquarian gods?
>>24688674Spoon feed me a book from each to read
>>24689226ShamanismGiordano Bruno and Hermetic TraditionPsychology and AlchemySpiritual Body, Celestial EarthThe Hermetic TraditionThe Crisis of the Modern WorldEros and Magic in the RenaissanceHegel and the Hermetic TraditionThe Eternal HermesThe Golden ThreadThe Western Esoteric TraditionsAuthors of the ImpossibleEsotericism and Western CultureThe Occult MindModern Occult RhetoricAlchemical TraditionsPath of the Serpent
>>24687385>I think the point is everyone knows crowley is a retard.He was exponentially more intelligent and better educated than you, as well as a far better writer.
>>24685559Yes, it is 100% all a LARP. Not a single one of these faggots has ever actually demonstrated a shred of magical power, summoned any kind of entity, reached enlightenment, or anything else. Every last one of them, when pressed, came up with retarded excuses and copes to explain why they could not do so when asked to. It's always>outsiders are uhhh too stupid/not properly prepared/unclean/hylic to witness such things>it doesn't work like that you can't just make magic happen on command >uhhh the demiurge is too powerful and shieet it wont work until the kali yuga or whatever>only the enlightened can see my magic bro ur just too hylic to see whats in front of u lol>[elaborate obscurantist smoke and mirrors intended to make you forget the question]Furthermore, every last one of these people is obsessed with one of the following: gay sex, drugs, doing shit their parents told them not to do, or hating Christianity. It's a teenage mindset turned up to 11.
>>24689295I found this more profound than liber al legis or whatever is blowing your mind>>24689424Do you believe in entities and enlightenment at all? Do you consider all religious people equally delulu?
There is a huge error that skeptics make when completely writing off the occult. You are assuming that existence itself is not supernatural, yet when you examine it's characteristics, existence itself is an unexplainable, absolutely incredible thing itself. I think you are operating religiously when you have complete faith in the material, not to mention the fact that experience itself is not as straightforward as you think.
>>24689437I'm actually religious myself. I just draw a line between syncretic occultist self-centered mumbo jumbo and its claims about being able to do magic or whatever and the selfless nature of the religious approach to the divine. Reductionist materialism contradicts itself, but that is no reason to jump all the way to the other end of the spectrum and claim you can summon djinni or whatever the fuck, nor is it a reason to immediately discount anyone who criticizes your occultist woo-woo system as a stupid dumb stinky hylic atheist.
>>24685581The limit of irony is to sendup one's own charisma: It's one thing to joke with other guys who share that gift about founding a cult, quite another to enjoy research.
>>24685559It depends. A lot of the performative Satanic magic stuff is a LARP, yes.Occult in the sense of metaphysics and the esoteric, no.You can usually determine the credibility of an occultist and their ideas by how moral, well-adjusted and "normal" they were in life.
