>>24687800
Because the lion is Jesus

is it an allegory if aslan is literally jesus. the finale reveals this

>>24687814
Yes this is what I keep hearing, but why do people say this?

>>24687817
Just read the books dude, they’re written for children and take about an hour and a half a piece.

>>24687800
Read the books and you'll find out. It gets pretty clear.

>>24687817
for pretty big spoiler reasons

>>24687800

>BOOK TWO
Get out of here with that in-world chronology order nonsense.

>Lucy dark-haired
Not only did this artist obviously not read the book, but no-one else picked him up on it.

>>24687800
It's not even an allegory, it's spinoff fanfiction. Aslan is canonically Jesus Christ.

>>24687817
He gets publicly humiliated, tortured, and murdered by the evil side. Then he resurrects and saves the children. Also he is a friend of santa claus.

>>24687817
Because the fucking character himself says it, kek

>>24688435
Lucy has looked dark-haired in every illustration or casting decision I've ever seen (although it was hard to tell in the black-and-white illustrations in the versions I read as a child). Until re-reading to my kids a year or two ago, I'd completely forgotten that Lucy was canonically blonde.
(Totally 100% agree on dumbass re-ordering btw)

>>24687800
It’s only considered heavy handed because the themes are Christian and not globohomo. I never hear anyone call the golden compass heavy handed despite it being even more blatant in its messaging that narnia ever was.

>and then the metaphor for Jesus fought the metaphor for Satan that the metaphor for Muslims worship at the metaphor of Revelation
It's unreal how much of a fucking hack Lewis is. I'm convinced Tolkien only hated allegory because of his correspondence with with this fag.

>>24687800
I'm a Christian but I never read Narnia I hear people gush about it should I read it or is it trash m8s

>>24687800
it's literally about Christianity, when was the last time in a fantasy book a character says:

>“No thanks," said Digory, "I don't know that I care much about living on and on after everyone I know is dead. I'd rather live an ordinary time and die and go to Heaven.”

>>24689904
Tolkien was just as heavy handed as Lewis.

>>24687800
Don't worry. With death of the author you can pretend it's about the LGBT community being persecuted by white chuds.

>>24690743
How can death of the author and media literacy exist at the same time
Truly makes one ponder

>>24690168
Does he get told he'll go to Hell or was Lewis one of those universalist fruits

>>24687817
These books were one of the first things I saw panned as bad on reddit about forever ago now. They were complaining about how he said one of the girls had lost her imagination when she started wearing makeup like it was sexist. Meanwhile losing imagination with maturity was a common theme.
It was a whole topic with women complaining about it.
So either unintelligent women or Tolkien hate campaign.
The books are heavily moral but not judgy in that way at all.

>>24689964
They're pretty good. They're for young children though. Bear that in mind. They're very short: around 40k-50k words per entry. For reference, The Hobbit is around 90k

>>24690935
>They were complaining about how he said one of the girls had lost her imagination when she started wearing makeup like it was sexist.
For what it's worth, that's in The Last Battle, the final book, which is by far the most trippy and strange entry. While it has some of the most compelling themes and disturbing imagery in the whole series, it's is also a major downer for the same reason and I remember not really enjoying it as a kid, even as a christian who accepted the idea of an afterlife.

>>24690898
The final book literally depicts a Judgement Day for Narnia. And no, not everybody gets to go to heaven.

I enjoyed the books as a child, but re-reading them to my children as an adult, I do find these books troubling, both for their treatment of Christian doctrine, for other miscellaneous things scattered throughout the books, and perhaps even just the spirit pervading the books. In Narnia, the universe has many parallel worlds (this is explored most fully in The Magician's Nephew), of which our world and Narnia are just two examples. In Narnia, God is incarnate as a lion for some reason. I don't remember this being explained, or to what extent this parallels the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation. Also Narnia has its own story of the Fall (also in The Magician's Nephew), and Passion and Resurrection narrative (in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe) where the lion Aslan is ritually killed with a knife in some kind of stonehenge place. Not only do all these parallel worlds have their own parallel mythologies, but there is travel between the different worlds, as the children go from our world to Narnia, and it seems that when people die, instead of going to heaven, they go to a new Narnia (after the Narnia apocalypse). I could say more, but I think this should be enough for someone with Christian sensibilities to see why the world of Narnia is problematic. It's not just an allegory. It claims to be a real addition to our own Christian world.

>>24687817
In case the you weren't beat over the head with it hard enough, Aslan says something to the effect that "I go by another name in your world. You must get to know me there."


>>24690935
I think it's not quite as benign as you make it out to be. There's a difference between aging out of Narnia and losing belief in Narnia. The context of this is at the end of the series, when the children die in a train accident, and go to Narnia (instead of heaven), and Susan wasn't with them. But maybe Susan wasn't in the accident and was still living. I don't remember with certainty. So, depending on whether my memory is correct or not, it's implying that Susan's preoccupation with boys and makeup came at the cost of her salvation. She's an example of seed choked out by thorns. I think it also talks about Susan rejecting belief in Narnia and saying it was just childish, imaginary play. (And even if that's not really what the book was implying, it's easy to see how some readers wrongly come away with that impression.)

>>24690898
Lewis wasn't a universalist (as far as I know). The closest thing is how one of the adherents of the Islam stand-in goes to heaven--I mean Narnia--because he was a man of good will, and in intending to serve his false demon-god (Tash?), he really was serving Aslan, the true god, to the extent that his knowledge and ability allowed him to.

>>24689824
Literally the only thing I know about Golden Compass is its atheistic subject matter. That’s all anyone ever discussed about it, always as a criticism. You’re a clown.

>>24691043
>when the children die in a train accident, and go to Narnia (instead of heaven), and Susan wasn't with them. But maybe Susan wasn't in the accident and was still living. I don't remember with certainty.
Pretty sure it's both. She wasn't in the accident but Susan is also explicitly called out as "no longer a friend to Narnia" by Peter, implied that she wouldn't have been there regardless.

>>24691043
Susan saying Narnia is "childish" is just a direct quotation from Scripture:


At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

— Matthew 18:1-3


But Susan doesn't die in the train crash and CSL said it's possible she can get back on track and make it eventually.

>>24691142
>>24689824
It's been awhile since I've heard anyone talk about Golden Compass.
But last I did, most of what I recall was people bitching about how Lyra started out as a Strong Independent Girl and then for the next two books, Will had the more dominant, masculine narratives.

>>24691233
It's been a while. But aging out of Narnia was a thing. The only earth beings that went there in the last book were fantasy hybrids and creatures and the children. All the world's had their own God (but also sort of the same) so her not going to Narnia did not mean she was doomed to hell or something, she just wasn't a Narnia baby anymore.
And the Reditt thread was definitely not this deep.
>>24691233
If csl himself said that than I am wrong and she was cursed for wearing makeup and thinking about boys.

>>24691262
>All the world's had their own God
Yes it's all a bit confused. CSL said himself that it wasn't an allegory in that things in Narnia didn't "stand for" things in our world. He just imagined "what if there were other worlds; how would Jesus appear in THOSE worlds?"

But in that case, why are the children going to Narnia's heaven, rather than Earth's heaven? Maybe it's because they just know Jesus better as Aslan than as the Jesus of Earth. Maybe all the heavens are actually one heaven. Basically a bit vague.

>>24691233
I'm an adult convert and it's such a weird point of view to me for Christianity to be this innocent doctrine that children are raised in and have to persist in as adults when I came to it as an adult and see it as a very serious subject that kids are limited in understanding the gravity of. It seems so superficial to treat it that way and it leads me to wonder if it reflects something of the nature of Lewis' grasp of faith that got so utterly destroyed in that private debate he had with Anscombe which prompted him to give up on adult apologetics altogether.

bump

>>24691305
>all the heavens are actually one heaven.
Iirc that is what is depicted in the very clear manner:
>"That country and this country - all the real countries - are onlu spurs jutting out from the great mountains of Aslan. We have only to walk along the ridge, upward and inward, till it joins on."
when asked about "the real England", where "no good thing is destroyed", observed during their ascend.

>>24687800
Does christianity equals to "be good, stay good, don't be bad"? Or is there something, that doesn't fit this statement?

>>24693766
>"the real England", where "no good thing is destroyed",
they'd have to destroy England itself to get that

>>24692494
>prompted him to give up on adult apologetics altogether
He wrote at least two books-worth of apologetics essays after that debate, and even revised Miracles based on that debate with Anscombe.

>>24694338
>and even revised Miracles based on that debate with Anscombe.
Interesting