You hate intelligence because you fear intelligence, you think it's a ruse, and ostensibly you also hate God because you fear intelligence.Just admit you're an idiot.
I fear not intelligence, but ignorance that disguises itself as intelligence.I fear not God, for if God is merciful, God will understand why I did not believe in and therefore fear God.
>>24695656Blessed are the meek. If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all. Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
>>24695656>intelligence>christianitypick one
>>24695712Eliot, Auden, Kieregaard, Tolstoy, Pascal, Blake. To name but a few.
>>24695712Anon, maybe you should read Heraclitus, the obviously not-logical expounder of logos, and Augustine, the obviously logical (which is not to say scientific) expounder of logos. I'm not even a Catholic, but denigrating an entire intellectual tradition in favour of another when you don't understand either makes you a midwit.
>>24695721Pseud, Pseud, Pseud, Pseud, Pseud, Pseud.>>24695726>intellectual tradition>christianitypick one
>>24695726How do you read about people living for 100s of years, or about burning bushes, and parting seas and feeding hundreds with a loaf of bread or how Jesus is God and man etc….Does a lightbulb not ever go off in your brain that says this is bullshit?
>>24695734Yeah, they're all pseuds. Sure. Case closed then.
>>24695656Is this a parody of an attempt to sound deep?
>>24695742Yes. Cope
>>24695737The same way I read Homer. Does a lightbulb not go off in your head that these stories are profoundly interesting and executed with great artistry? You can literally criticise the entirety of Greek pagan culture for the exact same things you're criticising Christian culture for. Greek Logos was not equivalent to modern scientific rationalism.
>>24695734God doesn't hate intelligence, it's simply that the unintelligent still have rights, despite the lacking mental capacity to understand why.
Until Jesus or an Angel appears to me like it conveniently did to Paul/Saul I have yet to see any proof of God. The churches, hymns, philosophy etc are all great but what's the point if you're living a lie.
I like intelligence precisely because I am an idiot.I don't know how this is related to God, but again, I am an idiot.
>>24695804Careful what you wish for, anon.
>>24695814God being scary and punishing to those who question how nothing ever happens is apart of the Jew mind-control. I used to pray to Jesus every night to show me a sign and of course nothing ever happens.
>>24695832Nothing happened because you thought religion was literal, as if it were material reality, like a dunce that prays to god to make him rich. You should have prayed for moral transformation in your life, which is a thousand times more significant than seeing a man with a beard appear in a cloud.
Already blasphemed against and rebuked the holy spirit several times, so luckily im already going to hell. No changing me
>>24695656Christianity is an effeminate religion for slaves.
>>24695845>you thought religion was realClearly a mistake.
>>24695764Never wrote they weren’t interesting or artistic. But neither the Bible, Homer or other religous works can offer truth about the metaphysical aspects of the world. For that you need a science book.
>>24695845>You thought religion was literal, as if it were material reality.I understand God would be indifferent to us but surely Jesus being all powerful can perform miracles just like he did supposedly when he was alive. Why has he stopped now? >You should have prayed for moral transformation in your life.I do all these things out of my own virtue & honour, not to get a ticket into some afterlife.
>>24695764>read the Bible the same way you read HomerOh, so you're also an atheist. What are you defending, exactly?
>>24695878Stop being a simpleton. Try a little nuance. Friendly advice.
>>24695883If you think the Bible is just interesting stories executed with artistry, you are not a Christian.
>>24695764>profoundly interesting and executed with great artistryEndless jewish rigmarole. Proverbs is ok. And then the NT is just a lot of commie gobbledygook.
>>24695863>But neither the Bible, Homer or other religous works can offer truth about the metaphysical aspects of the world. For that you need a science book.Science is hopelessly chained within a metaphysical framework that it has no possibility of revealing or commenting on. Your idea of truth and metaphysics is incredibly reductive. Were you to follow science as your metaphysical guide to its logical conclusions then all human culture and experience would have to be denied any claims to reality or truthfulness. But we know that human experience contains truth. Art and philosophy contain profound insights into our existence, and usually as the result of a religion or religious outlook lurking behind as their antecedent. This is most obvious in the Eastern religions, where philosophy and religion are completely merged. The Buddhist doctrine of the emptiness of existence, and its intellectual expounding, are metaphysically more valid than a science textbook.
>>24695898Creation story, Noah's ark, Moses parting the sea: probably myth, i.e. truth conveyed through symbols.Gospel miracles and exorcisms I regard as literally true, to the scandal of the modern sensibility.I've witnessed my fair share of "paranormal" phenomena so it's no big deal to me.
>>24695857Religion is a qualitative experience. How can you read literature if you don't even understand the multiple levels of interpretation involved in religion?>>24695870>I understand God would be indifferent to usThat's clearly not Christian doctrine. Why would it be necessary for God to be indifferent to us if he doesn't perform whatever miracles you request?>I do all these things out of my own virtue & honourAnd in the Christian scheme of things the beauty that virtue and honour possess are reflections of a greater divine beauty. In other words, the Christian religion intrinsically a revelation of the miraculous in ordinary human life. So long as a Christian separates the world of 'ordinary life' from the world of 'miracles' he is not really a Christian, because faith is a qualitative experience. Although this does have the danger of degenerating into evangelical lunacy which invents superficial miracles everywhere.
>>24695928>degenerating into evangelical lunacyThere it is
>>24695933There what is? All I said was that Christianity has negative and stupid expressions, just like all beliefs, ideologies and religions inevitably have some stupid people interpret it in a stupid manner. That's no slight against Christianity.
>>24695961Padre Pio > Karl Barth
>>24695961>have some stupid people interpret it in a stupid mannerlike arbitrarily deciding what is myth and what is factual history
>>24695971Not arbitratily. More like reasonable guesses. There are gradations here. Nuance, my friend.
>>24695928>Religion is a qualitative experience.So we agree, it isn't real, then. If you ingest a bunch of DMT and meet some machine elves, that's a valid experience you had. That doesn't mean machine elves exist. Or that anyone should reorder their life to satisfy the dictates of these elves that only you have seen.> How can you read literature if you don't even understand the multiple levels of interpretation involved in religion?Again, you show the equivalence of religion and fiction.
>>24695971But I have my own epistemology. My own wealth of painstakingly gathered data. My own hermeneutics. I believe in myth and I believe in miracles. Some bible stories are mythical and some are real and all of them are true.
>>24695979>So we agree, it isn't real, thenNTA but you are tiresome.
>>24695979Machine elves are real, incidentally. Some things are goofy and have goofy names and yet are real. Truth ever stranger than fiction. Nephilim were clowns and all that. Their noses soaked in the blood of innocents.
>>24695979>So we agree, it isn't real, then.So your own experiences aren't real?>If you ingest a bunch of DMT and meet some machine elves, that's a valid experience you had.A facile sophism. DMT results in hallucinations independent of reality, while the perceptions and experiences of religion are the result of interactions with and responses to reality. Ordering your life according to DMT experiences usually does not benefit you in anyway, it's half-schizophrenic and explosive, often destructive, even if valuable insights can be found in it. Meanwhile, a high religious outlook is the result of centuries of culture, reason and experience maturing and working towards profundity and truth.>Again, you show the equivalence of religion and fiction.No, I am only demonstrating the lack of imagination (or perhaps intelligence is the better word) required for someone not to understand religion.
>>24695965I'm not here to side with Caths or Prots against one or the other.>>24695971It is you who regard that decision as arbitrary, because you lack either the intellectual equipment to make such a decision yourself or the theological knowledge to be familiar with how such decisions are made.
>>24695977>>24696030>nuh uh ur stoopid>>24695983>y-yes but so what?? Full spectrum of cope lol
>>24696038Well, I mean, you just called centuries of theologians and philosophers stupid without argument. What's wrong with us calling you stupid without argument?
>>24696016>the perceptions and experiences of religion are the result of interactions with and responses to realityI disagree.>a high religious outlook is the result of centuries of culture, reason and experience maturing and working towards profundity and truth.It is clearly not the result of careful, sober observations of the real world.>I am only demonstrating the lack of imagination (or perhaps intelligence is the better word) required for someone not to understand religion.Is religion man made stories that illustrate moral lessons, or is it a real, factual description of how the natural world operates? Pick one and be honest about it.
>>24696038You're spiteful and boring. I'm not indulging you anymore.
>>24696053Not complaining about adhom, i'm just mocking you is all. Stupid retard thinks magic is real lmao.>>24696062You have nothing of value to offer
>>24696063I have casted my pearls before swine. I have fed the troll and the troll has grown bold. His grunts have grown louder. I try to reach him, to speak in good faith, with sincerity and courtesy and wit. And all he gives me in reply is cheap snark.
>OP makes smug thread mocking atheists>Which is not something God would want you to do>Probably has led more people away from Christ ITT by reinforcing their belief that Christians are uptight dogmatic assholesNice going.
>>24696073>pearlsTired old jewish apologetics. Atheists are truly doing god's work
>>24696063>Stupid retard thinks magic is real lmao.I didn't say that. You haven't been following the line of argument. But of course, in a metaphorical sense, in the Christian outlook, the world IS magical. And you lack the imagination to inhabit that magic world.
>>24696082No. Good grief. What I mean is I gave you the best I had to give. Or nearly it. And you just rudely dismiss it. Emphasis on rude.
>>24695734
>>24696057>I disagree.A religion couldn't survive for centuries at the heart of a highly developed culture without it being confirmed in observation and experience. Of course, the point being that you fail to understand what qualitative means. Great literary minds like John Donne, formerly an irreverent worshipper of eros, do not just have midlife religious revelations because they force themselves to conform to dogma. Something other than dogma is required for revelation, real observation is demonstrable, in the lives of many.>It is clearly not the result of careful, sober observations of the real world.I don't see how you can say this if you've ever read much Medieval theology. It's an extremely sober and laboriously careful process of deductions. Now, you might concede, it is sometimes sober and careful, but its deductive process is disconnected from the 'real world', to which I respond: what is the 'real world'? It goes without saying that your assertion here is depended on a very specifically qualified definition of 'real world'. If you mean the world as it does not interact with human mind, but defined completely 'objectively' as science would have it, then you are again at the problem of denying any reality to human experience and culture.>Pick one and be honest about it.Come on anon, I think you are intelligent enough to understand that that is a false binary, or at least it is very possible to conceive it as a false binary from the religious person's point of view. I think there are many atheists that would agree the two polar opposites you have chosen can only tenuously be considered polar opposites, and that they include only a very small spectrum of religious thought. But to answer your question as best I can, both. Insofar the 'natural world' includes qualities observed, such as beauty, and insofar as Biblical stories believed to be true can also contain obvious morals.
>>24696084>in the Christian outlook, the world IS magical. And you lack the imagination to inhabit that magic world.cool heresy. arent you supposed to call them miracles? i thought the world and magic was evil and satanic>>24696090I find the entire pretense of christianity to be extremely offensive and jewish. It deserves only rude dismissal
>>24696119>cool heresy.Anon, I said metaphorical. Are you retarded? You keep failing to understand basic English. There's obviously nothing heretical about calling the world metaphorically magical t the average Christian.
>>24696121Ah, so meaningless drivel, got it. That you were referring to something of substance
>>24696128*thought. ffs I'm drunk
>>24696119t.
>>24696121You are generally correct in your poasting but you ignore that miracles still happen today. Your apologetics is too Chestertonian. There are Christian intellectuals and Spirit-filled Christians but there's little intersection between these circles.
>>24696135t.
>>24696135lol I forgot he existed. Banana man….
>>24696128>>24696132Anon, do you know what a metaphor is? I guess being drunk explains why you think a metaphor is meaningless drivel.>>24696136I didn't want to deny the existence of miracles. But that is something far beyond what can be discussed in an argument. I don't find it very helpful to point to miracles when the person I'm talking with doesn't believe in them.
>>24696141>He never sleeps, the anon. He is tipping, tipping. He says that he will never die.
>>24696144>think a metaphor is meaningless drivel.Just your schizo jew metaphors, anon>>24696146Niggers dont tip, that's right
Miracles and paranormal phenomena have been proven real by the scientific method. Official science denies this. Secular philosophers therefore declare that God is dead and what are the implications? Where do we go now? Christian thinkers start talking about morals, imagination, the need for enchantment. Meanwhile sorcery is still afoot and exorcist priests still have busy schedules. University teachers declare themselves skeptical while the people who wield power in this world assemble in lodges and tariqas where they commune with unclean spirits. Levitate, astrally project. Think King Charles quoting Guenon. Think Saville's crimes. Think blue blood and black magic. I say these things and the uninitiated sneer. World is a psyop, normies gonna norm.
>>24696152>Thinks it’s about tipping in a restaurant Of course your lardass is obsessed with food. An obvious self-tell.
>>24696159>38 year old facebook memes>kike psychoanalyzingAn obvious self-tell.
>>24696160Facebook is your Mecca. You worship science! Unfortunate that you cannot pray to science to lose weight.
>>24696152>Just your schizo jew metaphors, anonAnon, you need to understand, there is a difference between rejecting someone's belief and misunderstanding their belief. Purposefully misunderstanding someone's belief is not very good proof of your having rejected their belief. I am accurately describing the experience of the Christian outlook with a metaphor, this does not make the metaphor schizophrenic, although you may regard the Christian outlook as schizophrenic, much as I disagree with you.
>>24696159kek
>>24696164>y-you are le facebookEvery church in america has a fag flag in front lmao. 100% normie cattle. Keep praying to jesus to make your skin white lol>>24696166I understand christians all have their own headcanon, you sound nice what are you mormon
>>24696176>Every church in america has a fag flag in front lmaoMost don't. Those who do have dwindling congregations.
>>24696176You should pray to Science to lose those chins! Oh my science!
>>24696178They do, and they all have dwindling congregations >>24696185One can lose weight, but how do you unbecome a nigger? I'll pray for you. To science
>>24695928Such bullshit. Why are only select few given miracles or proof of god yet others are stuck in the dark. I don't buy it. Why is the burden of proof on me and not Jesus. "No one comes to the Father except through me". Where the fuck is my miracle. Am I doomed to hell because I was't born in Galilee when Jesus walked?
>>24696192>One can lose weightBut you haven’t. Why? Oh science, why hasn’t ozempic worked for this poor anon? Show some love to his handles, clear his arteries like you clear sins!
>>24696198Your diet is 95% lard carlos. Hilarious projection lmao
Trolls flinging stale memes and shit quips at other trolls. Amazing stuff.
>>24696206They keep replying lol
Or even worse: it's all the same guy. The misery of man without God (to quote Pascal).
>>24696203>Projection!The only thing projected is a vast shadow when the sun strikes your bosom of bounty. Lose it, tubby!
>>24696215Ok you win. I will put down the drink and worship the jew
>>24695656Intelligence is midwittery.Being stupid is both low and high IQ
>>24696223trvthnvke
>>24696222Call me Ishmael.I was minding my business ITT when I see it….the atheist landwhale. That corpulent cetacean, disdainful of Creation, bloated and bellowing across an asphalt sea. I can still see it. That gluttonous grin, a diabetic snarl of yellowed teeth wrapped tight above a procession of dribbling chins. Pale flesh, enlightened with a euphoric gleam, the flash of cars in passing. None stopped to save me.
Chesterton was fat, Shaw was skinny. Something to think about.
>>24696239>Call me Ishmael.Brown name for a brown man, sounds good
>>24696239>diabetic snarlbeautiful lmao
You gents need a hobby. Try reading a book. >Nobody needs another Crusade
>>24696239Melville-mogged
>tfw finally memed by mexicans into worshipping jews
>>24696195Doubting Thomas
