>Be me.>Been a fan of Warhammer 40k since I was like 14.>Know that Dune was a big influence on it.>Know that it's actually a series of books.>Finally read the book since the new movies came out.>Shocked at how much is taken from the novel into the the WH40k universe.>Read the rest of the series...THEY TOOK EVERYTHING FROM FRANK HERBERT HOLY SHIT!I'm surprised his son hasn't tried to sue Games Workshop.
And then you read The Night Land and realise where they got the rest of it from
>>24701859Btw, if you want to read the series, here's what I'd recommend.Original series by Frank Herbert:>Dune (1965)>Dune Messiah (1969)>Children of Dune (1976)>God Emperor of Dune (1981)>Heretics of Dune (1984)>Chapterhouse: Dune (1985)The ONLY books you should read by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson:>Hunters of Dune (2006)>Sandworms of Dune (2007)Companion books:>Songs of Muad'Dib: The Poetry of Frank Herbert (1992)>The Road to Dune (2005)>"The Road to Dune" short story in Frank Herbert's collection Eye (1985)>"Treasure in the Sand" short story in Tales of Dune (2006)
>>24701865Haven't read that. I just know Lovecraft was a fan of Night Land.
>>24701859Dune, the album 2112 by Rush, and Michael Moorcock.
>>24701872In the grim darkness of the far future, the sun has gone out (hence the darkness), and the world is full of mutants, ab-humans and various interdimensional monstrosities (hence the grim). What remains of humanity lives inside a giant pyramid, which is protected by a psychic/spiritual barrier. From time to time, when humans need to leave the pyramid and do battle with the monstrosities, they wear suits of power armour and carry circular saw polearms that are powered by the souls of fallen warriors.So you mix that with Dune and Warhammer Fantasy, and you get 40k.
>>24701889Nice. Will i miss out much if i read the abridged dream of x?NTA
>>24701859
>>24701919I haven't read the abridged version, so I'm not sure how good it is. I do know that in the full version, once he finds the girl, you can skip ahead to when they're in sight of the redoubt again without missing too much.
>>24701859>be you>can't into greentext>seethes about things he "knows">acts like he saw god worm>didn't even see earth worm>still stupid>still just following trends>still pretending like he is better than those who follow the trends>be he "knew" it before they did>so better then they are>wishes he could still cry himself to sleep like he did when he was little>2 years ago
Wait until you find out Herbert ripped everything from Barsoom and from the Sabres of Paradisedune is plagiarismSabres of Paradise>"To kill with the point lacked artistry."Dune>Gurney says there's no artistry in killing with the tip, that it should be done with the edgeSabres of paradise>Thus, in writing of Shamyl, we must place him first in his time − the first half of the nineteenth century, and then in his place − the mountains – […]Dune>To begin your study of the life of Muad'Dib, then, take care that you first place him in his time: born in the 57th year of the Padishah Emperor, Shaddam IV. And take the most special care that you locate Muad'Dib in his place: the planet ArrakisSabres of Paradise>Shamyl, the embodiment of his land, was at once warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, foxy and innocent, chivalrous and ruthless.Dune>He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards.Sabres of Paradise>O mountains of Gounib, O soldiers of Shamyl,>Shamyl’s citadel was full of warriors,>Yet it has fallen, fallen forever …Dune>O Seas of Caladan,>O people of Duke Leto-->Citadel of Leto fallen,>Fallen forever. . .>-from "Songs of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
Yup! They ripped off Asimov a hell of a lot too even if it seems tonally different. But to be fair all sci fi ripped off Asimov and Dune to some degreeOh no my fantasy setting stole shit from Tolkien wow how horrid manOh no my grimdark fantasy setting stole shit from Conan and Berserk how grim
>>24702286>all sci fi ripped off AsimovYour favorite longnose sex pest was not an amazing or exemplary author, merely one of the first. His Foundation """""space opera""""" is a complete fucking joke compared to anything you could read today. This may be the most ignorant newfag fucking post on /lit/ right now.
>>24702366>muh longnoseWhatever wignat.
>>24701859It'd be easier to list what classic sff Warhammer *didn't* rip off.
Ripping off other people was fine until jewish lawyers came along
>>24701859Wait till you read Elric of Melnibone and realize they ripped off Chaos Gods from it.
>>24702255Too stupid to know that both books took these lines from historic literature eh? You think Sabres was the first to use ‘warrior and mystic’? Next you’ll be comparing any books that steal allegory from the Bible.
>>24701868Treasure in the Sand is also included in a paperback edition of Hunters of Dune.
Can tell me what's up with Brian Herbert and him just squeezing his dad's IP for all its worth with the guy who wrote Star Wars EU novels?Has anyone actually called him out on this?
>>24702575Cope dunefag
>>24701859>Newfag hasn't learned about Nemesis the Warlock yetYou have no idea how much of Warhammer is ripped from various other media. It's a chimeric setting with absolutely nothing original. (Not an insult)
>>24702366I never said he was. His books are Sherlock Holmes tier imo. Good but not great or absurdly genius.
Things Games Workshop Cribbed.For purposes of timeline, recall that Warhammer 40K was begun in 1987 by Rick Priestly as a Sci-Fi version of the 1983 fantasy version of Warhammer. Prior to 1983, Games Workshop produced miniatures for other tabletop rpg companies, such as TSR, enabling them to produce minis in Britain.When they ceased to do this, they used surplus parts to cobble together “their own” product for sale.This was, in fact, a violation of the copyright of those companies that had contracted with them.This, it would turn out, was an indication of what was to come…From Michael Moorcock’s “Eternal Warrior Multiverse” introduce in 1963’s “The Sundered Worlds”.The eternal battle between Order and Chaos.Medieval-Futuristic tech.An evil expansionist empire.Michael Moorcock’s “Chronicles of Castle Brass” (1973) and “The History of The Runestaff” (1963)An immortal emperor seated in a techno-magical golden throne worshipped as a god to whom Humans are sacrificed to fuel the throne and preserve the emperor.From Michael Moorcock’s “Elric of Melniboné” 1961The Chaos Star. (This is where the 8-pointed star as a symbol of chaos and anarchy originated)Also, if you look at the illustrations, Fulgrim looks like Elric’s twin brother.From Frank Herbert’s “Dune” 1965.The God-Emperor of Mankind. (Ripped off partly from Emp. Leto II who became the God-Emperor)The Empire of Man. (All of Humanity under a single empire comes from this series)The Imperium. (Literally the same name)The Imperial Truth (Basically a partial rip off of The Golden Path).War on the Men of Iron and ban on AI. (Butlerian Jihad)The Adepta Sororitas. (Clearly inspired by the Bene Gesserit, Honored Matres and the Fish Speakers). Las weapons. (Taken straight from the franchise.)Psychic navigators using psychic power to warp space for interstellar travel. The Adepteus Astartes (Super-elite fanatical space soldiers inspired by the Sardaukar)The Great Crusade (The Freman Jihad)Even if you set aside the notion that the T'au were lifted from Japanese sci-fi, there's no escaping where the iconic T'au Fire Warriors' look comes from. Namely, the adventure game Brattacas From Robert W. Chambers “The King In Yellow”. 1895The King In Yellow. (Yes, GW straight up snatched the name of the book’s subject).From John Wagner and Carlos Ezquerra “Judge Dredd” 1977The Arbitrators: A blatant rip-off of “Judge Dredd” in their authority, behavior, their purpose and even their uniform design, which GW then guards as if they came up with the idea.The basic idea of Hive Cities also clearly come from Mega-Cities in this comic series.BattleTech was ripped off for its giant robots to create their “Knights” faction in WH40k, and then GW had the ass to sue BattleTech because a FAN CREATED robot was named “Warhammer”.The Imperial Walker looks almost like a duplicate of the Star Wars AT-ST.
>>24702910J.R.R. Tolkien “Lord of The Rings” 1937-1949. Elves.Orks.Dwarves.It can be argued that they actually cribbed this from Dungeons and Dragons (Then owned by TSR) with whom GW had contracts as the exclusive publisher and distributor in Europe in 1975-79 when their contract with Tactical Studies Rules ended.Dan O’Bannon and Ronald Shusett’s “Alien” 1979.The Tyranids, a race of extraterrestrial creatures, organized similarly to insects, who destroy and genetically assimilate their prey.Next up...imagine...an outnumbered group of science-fiction Marines, searching through a derelict sci-fi nightmare environment...outnumbered a thousand to one by horrible xenomorphs. Motion trackers blip incessantly as their foes move through the darkness, coming ever closer. If what I just described to you sounds like the premise for James Cameron's 1986 sci-fi action thriller Aliens, then congratulations! You know what I'm talking about....aaaand that entire premise was "lifted" for the Warhammer 40k board game Space Hulk.The term "Space Marine" which GW has sued other authors for using? It was first used by Bob Olson in 1932 for his story "Captain Brink of the Space Marines", published in that year's November issue of Amazing Stories. Moreover, the term "Space Marine" in reference to a tactical miniatures-based tabletop wargame predates Warhammer 40k by almost a decade. Fantasy Games Unlimited Inc. released “Space Marines” well before 40k came about. The Genestealers: An ALIEN* species that is implanted into a Human host; eventually the ALIEN* implant destroys the original host and replaces it with an -> ALIEN* <- being.In summary: GW’s IP is the most derivative I’ve ever encountered and consists of a patchwork of other people’s work, barring the chainsword and the Skaven (if we ignore the Nezumi of Japanese folklore) which appear to be their only original creations.When GW goes off about “their” IP, I invite you to recall that “their” IP is a broad quilt that was stitched from the works of others.
>>24701865>>24701872Wait till they hear about Olaf Stapledon's Starmaker...
It's okay when people do it. It's art. BUT WITH AI-
>>24702910>>24702914Also Lovecraft. Genestealers they admitted are based off the Deep Ones from The Shadow Over Innsmouth and Tzeentch is basically just Nyarlathotep
>>24701868Frank endorsed the Dune Encyclopedia too
Good thread
It's actually mainly a ripoff of First comics and 2000AD. People forget the context. First Frank Herbert Published Dune, then Michael Moorcock published Runestaff, a Dune inspired Science Fantasy series, and then Frank Herbert started publishing the second and third Dune books in Analog Science Fiction and Fact around the same time as the third and fourth Runestaff books. Leto 2 is very much like God-King Huon from runestaff except he's an immortal worm instead of a Immortal king in a tank. First comics would then publish a series of a series of Eternal Champion graphic novels and Pat Mills published Nemesis the Warlock in 2000AD, a comic that also ripped off a bunch of stuff from Moorcock although the tone is totally different. I don't deny warhammer hasn't ripped off a metric ton of other stuff but those are the two things it stole from the most.
>>24702914Skaven are a ripoff of the were-rats from Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. I've seen people mention the movie the Secret of NIMH as well. The warpstone is original though.I think Nemesis the Warlock had Torqumada fight Nemesis with a chainsaw in one of the later issues but I'm not sure if that was published before or after the first edition of Warhammer.
>>24704418The whole concept of a setting where the world is gonna end in 10 minutes and all we can do for now is slow down the end is something Lovecraft and Howard pioneered. Of course Norse mythology and Lord Dunsany did it first. I cringe when people say Warhammer is its own genre separate from Dark Fantasy.
>>24702526https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malus_DarkbladeWe have Elric at home
>>24701859>THEY TOOK EVERYTHING FROM FRANK HERBERTmf 40k wholesale ripped off sooooo many more things, can't wait for you to find out
>>2470185940k wasn’t written to be some unique setting. It starts out as WH Fantasy IN SPAAAAAACE. Then the grimdark shift tries to make this make sense and they rip off everything because it doesn’t matter. It’s flavour text for a fucking tabletop game. Only now, 20-40 years later do people piss themselves because they read a bunch of lore or Black Library shit and figure out their cool universe had a bunch of precedents. It’s good that people mention all the shit beyond Dune that they stole from though. Books by Stapledon are virtually unknown. Night Land gets some mentions on /lit/ but is pretty much a nonentity outside it. Elric has some readers. Read more books I guess is the point. Read less 40k sloppa.
>>24702910Weren't the Arbites just restocks from a failed Judge Dredd minuature game repurposed into 40k for sales?The tau-covenant comparison is really common but generally wrong it's undeniable Aun Va's design was not directly taken from Halo..I feel it's also a little wrong to generally claim the orkz' scraptech are mad max ripoffs but some of their vehicle and truck designs certainly are
tech priests and the adeptus mechanicus are lifted directly from foundation, necrons are space t-800s, tau are gundamsit's like that
Geez, is there anything original in Warhammer?
So what?
>>24701859Warhammer lore is merely set dressing for the tabletop game. The goal is to advertise the factions but that's not even required to entice most soon-to-be players. Little Timmy sees these cool dudes with black armor full of spikes and skulls and begs his parents to buy the Chaos Space Marines' £100 starting kit.
>>24705577The combination is whats interesting (sporadically). I wouldn't malign an omelette for taking bits from eggs and butter. What the setting does is provide a great context for its interactive and creative elements, I like a purple and white color scheme for squadron of empire greatswords so I can contextualize that as them being a a mercenary troop from Averland (Fantasy Bavaria). I'm writing a homebrew campaign for Dark Heresy, its going to basically be Event Horizon, but with different characters that I played around with in my head when I first saw the movie a decade ago. Etcetera.
>>24701859>>24701865and from Asimovs foundation. Tech priests are 1 to 1 copies from that.>>24705415>tau gundameh, not really beisdes being in mechs and having some east asian flavor. might as well say any other mecha shit. NOt particularly federation or zion or anything else gundam.
>>24701859>WARHAMMER 40K RIPPED EVERYTHING OFF FROM DUNEand the sky is blue. is this supposed to be some kind of revelation? its like saying "DUDE STAR WARS IS INSPIRED BY DUNE AND THE HIDDEN FORTRESS!!" like no shit.
>science fiction setting shows no originality or imaginationIt was ever thus.
>>24701859And yet almost no one hear about Dune slop... curious
>>24701949>tasteful arabesque decorations kek
>>24702526I think The History of the Runestaff is a much better fit.
>>24706646>DUDE STAR WARS IS INSPIRED BY DUNE>muh desert planet >muh empire in space It ends there.
>>24706649/thread>>24708436>space princess in introduction>magic order of space monks run everything>limited prescience>evil guy is hideous and malformed>protag finds out evil guy is (grand)father>story centers around rebellionIt's like poetry, it's sort of, they rhyme. Every stanza kind of rhymes with the last one.
>>24702366being the first is quite meaningful though
