The only free verse poet worth a damn
>>24706500
>>24706615The only free verse poet worth a damn
>>24706615Ted looks like what would happen if a scientist spliced the genes of a chad and a chud into one person.
>free verse>worth a damnPick one and only one.
>>24706500>t. Dilettante trad larper who makes an exception for Pound because he was a fascist
>Aie-e! ‘‘Tis true that I am gay
>>24706500What's your favorite poem by him?
>>24706500>Whitman>Eliot>Pound>Williams>StevensOnly these five. David too, if you count the Psalms as free verse.
Free verse poetry is a gateway to depravity and unreason.
>>24706500Willem defoe? I didn't know he wrote poetry h
>>24707238William Shakespeare? Pseud ass niggas
>>24706500That's not Wallace Stevens
>>24707275Blank verse isn‘t free verse, retard.
Some of his poetry is great but I would say most of it is just schizobabble lacking any musical quality and basically just literary shitposting
Pound fans are strange. They don't like poetry, they like fascist daddy they don't understand. Maybe pick someone who didn't renounce their opinions.
>>24706908>>24707563No one mentioned politics. It's a perfectly acceptable opinion to prefer Pound to all other free verse poets, because he was undeniably the most skilled exponent.
>>24707563Non-credible hearsay
>>24707195Hugh Selwyn Mauberly obviously. But his Chinese translations are also puckah
>>24707762A rare man who wrote translations from multiple languages he didn’t know while writing a multitude of polylingual untranslated verses in languages he did know. Both were very impressive to literary critics ofc
>>24707804Maybe someone who knows Chinese can chime in, but I sort of heard that as long as you know what the hanzi mean, your guess is as good as anyone else's as to how they should be translated into foreign languages. Like Chinese people unironically say and write "moon look sad" instead of "I looked at the moon and felt sad" because they have no inflection at all.
>>24707818that's basically true. if you look at the original poems they have a certain number of characters on each line and none of them are articles or pronouns
>>24707818>unironically say and writein normal speech and vernacular writing they use pronouns and articles. i don't know if they do in contemporary poetry. i assume they do
>>24707563pound was the guy who inspired me to become a poet, when i was a kid i read in a station of the metro and for the first time ever i felt something towards a piece of art
>>24707563Same with the Wagner stans, who never do anything so base as go to an actual opera
>>24707939I don't understand the cause of your seething. You're presuming that anyone who's interested in genius artists that happened to be right wing are only interested in them because they're right wing? Sounds like you're just imagining scenarios to get angry about.
>>24706500Walt Whitman beats this guy infinite times and Leaves of Grass is one of the few books of the modern man that will be still read in about 1000 years.Pound babble is good to impress fascist into believing the have an artist on their side, but anyone with a working knowledge of poetry can see that this heavily conceptualized stuff and desire to talk about everything at once by throwing chinese ideograms and the history of US economy into a single poem falls flat, is uninteresting and aged like milk. >What thou lovest well remains, the rest is dross>What thou lov’st well shall not be reft from thee>What thou lov’st well is thy true heritageIt is not by chance that his most quoted verses are those where he makes a general statement about love and not those where he tells you about all the conspiracies he uncovered about US banks.
>>24707952>The only way to enjoy Whitman thoroughly is to concentrate on his fundamental meaning. If you insist, however, on dissecting his language you will probably find that it is wrong NOT because he broke all of what were considered in his day 'the rules' but because he is spasmodically conforming to this, that or the other; sporadically dragging in a bit of 'regular' metre, using a bit of literary language, and putting his adjectives where, in the spoken tongue, they are not. His real writing occurs when he gets free of all this barbed wire.
>>24707563>>24707709generally speaking Pound fanboys are just like this, though. "he's the BEST FREE VERSE POET EVER OMG" okay name three free verse poets he mogs and they'll say "Rupi Kaur" and you'll start laughing until you realize they mean it 100% seriously and they can't name any. Lots of pound fans only like him because they think he's Heckin BASED
>>24707709>he was undeniably the most skilled exponent.He was undeniably a middling talent despite devoting his entire life to the craft with like two good poems. I saw one poem where he used rhyme and the real reason he wrote free verse became immediately clear.
>>24708514>okay name three free verse poets he mogs and they'll say "Rupi Kaur" and you'll start laughing until you realize they mean it 100% seriously and they can't name any.This interaction has never occurred.
>>24707886Yea, Classical Chinese is much more terse than Chinese today, and the terseness is a major part of the poetry since brevity was seen as artistically laudable.
>>24708532If you rate poems according to your own metric of 'this is cool or this is not cool' then sure, you can subjectively claim that he was middling talent and only wrote two good poems. But if you actually care about the technic involved in artistic creation, i.e. you can articulate your likes and dislikes, then Pound was objectively extremely skilled. Yeats said he had the finest ear of any poet in the 20th century. Do you know what makes a 'fine ear' in poetry? You're free to dislike his poems, but you're not free to deny his skill.
>>24707951>seething over your own imaginary scenario about another anon seething about an imaginary scenarioI can never follow movies like this. Why not stick to the actual statement made? Wagneranon admitted he’s never actually been to the opera
>>24708543>Yeats said he had the finest ear of any poet in the 20th centurySource?I actually will read a poem of his that you suggest that shows his musical talent. I remember reading one and finding the meter almost trancelike (in a good way), but most of them come across as clumsy or incoherent to me
>>24708543Yeats died in 1936 so he’s hardly a judge of the ears of 20th century poets
>>24708572>Why not stick to the actual statement made? Wagneranon admitted he’s never actually been to the operaAnd what about that makes you think he was only interested in Wagner because of politics? Again, you demonstrate an utterly irrational seething.
>>24708572>a post on lit saidWell that settles itFwiw I can only speak for burgers but I absolutely do not recommend going to the opera where in a small handful of major cities which have the resources to stage them properly, they are performed as unadventurous status symbols which feel no connection to the work at hand. Anywhere else, you‘re looking at productions which don‘t explore how to retain the essential meaning as amateurs but simply try as hard as possible to cover their material shortcomings. In both cases the evident influence of the American musical theater makes for a gruesome infection of the source.
>>24708575>Source?I have no idea, I just read the quote somewhere, but the friendship, mutual admiration and mutual influence between Yeats and Pound is well documented.>most of them come across as clumsy or incoherent to meThere's large dead patches in the Cantos, I wont deny, mostly for getting across historical knowledge that Pound wasn't trying to express musically, but apart from that, most of his poetry, excluding his early experiments, are all extremely musical. The test is in whether or not you are able to scan it coherently, which requires a solid knowledge of prosody and a well trained ear. Just because it doesn't follow a basic iambic metre does not mean it is incoherent or lacks a unifying metre. Look at his Sextus Propertius, it is in many ways an attempt to bring the classical hexameter line into English. It may seem very irregular, but then most attempts at such a thing before Pound, such as by non-free verse poets, were also irregular because of the impossibility of directly translating such a metre into English. I often find, and it's the same with Milton, that when a superb verse-musician willing to expand conventional metre is first read, the reaction of many people still learning poetry is to find it to be un-musical and abrasive, when it's exact opposite. This is most likely due to them not having learned to properly pronounce poetry without the aid of a simple iambic pattern.
>>24707818>We might begin by noting that a Chinesepocm works like a kind of grid. Syntax movesalong the line in one direction, while pleasingparallels and juxtapositions show up at rightangles to that movement. When you try to du-plicate this in English, you get an effect of stiftformality that disables the lyric voice of thepoem. Here's an example from one of the Wang Wei poems, first in a literal character-by-character rendering:stream sound swallow dangerous rocks cold sun color bluegreen pines.Of course, most translators do not follow theformal parallelism that slavishly, but they aremore influenced by it than they perhaps should be; here are three translations of those lines: Fountains sob, swallowing perilous rocks.Sun color chills green pines.(Wai-lim Yip)Sound of a stream choking on sharp rocksSun cool coloured among green pines-(G.W. Robinson)A gurgling stream chokes on treacherousrocks;The dying sun flicks coldly through theblue pines.(Chang Yin-nan & Lewis Walmsley)This is all from a book of translations by David Young that's really good I'd recommend it feels like it gives a good example of what translators are working with when it comes to Chinese poetry.
>>24708539>>24707818This is the Li Bai poem that Ezra Pound turned into The River Merchant’s Wife長幹行妾發初覆額,折花門前劇。郎騎竹馬來,繞床弄青梅。同居長干裡,兩小無嫌猜。十四為君婦,羞顏未嘗開。低頭向暗壁,千喚不一回。十五始展眉,願同塵與灰。常存抱柱信,豈上望夫台。十六君遠行,瞿塘灩滪堆。五月不可觸,猿聲天上哀。門前遲行跡,一一生綠苔。苔深不能掃,落葉秋風早。八月蝴蝶黃,雙飛西園草。感此傷妾心,坐愁紅顏老。早晚下三巴,預將書報家。相迎不道遠,直至長風沙。
>>24706500ahem
>>24708673I like these simple translations. There's an impressionistic feel to it that is very refreshing.
>>24708636Yup it filtered me. Not sure how to go about finding the meter except brief snatches of I think anapest
>>24711330Pound's definitely not an easy poet to read if you haven't gone down the prosody rabbit hole. But I can give some obvious tip: remember that classical metre was never something completely regular, it had variables and anceps and allowed for a great variety in the length of the line, so stresses lining up should not necessarily be treated as an exception from the metre.
>>24711376how does one go down the prosody rabbit hole?
