where do i talk with people about books? i started reading books like a month ago and i'm loving it but i can't find anybody to talk to about them. is this a good place for it? i read this book a couple days ago. actually how are you even supposed to talk about books? like rarely an organic conversation about them comes up but if i make a thread to talk about it, how would that even work? am i supposed to ask questions? or like state some opinions? it just feels kinda very inorganic and weird and not fun. am i retarded? like seriously how do i go on about talking about books i read?
Feel free to write anything you want in wwoym. Feel free to make any thread you want. You are a great OP. You could also post it on a book review website like Goodreads or LibraryThing.
>>24720567heard about this on oprah like 20 years ago. is the book any good?
>>24720590i liked it very much. the story is really interesting, and the guy who wrote it spent a stupid amount of time and effort interviewing so many people. even if you're not interested in gender or sexuality stuff it's still definitely worth reading. and if you are interested in those subjects you'll love it.
>>24720600does it go into that john money guy?
>>24720616very much so. it's probably the best source if you wanna learn about john money.
Bump...
>>24720567Discord
>how do i go on about talking about books i read?U just go up to handsome men and ask them if they know the story about the kid who was turned into a tranny because of a botched circumcision. Then u ask to see their cock so u can check if they are circumcised. If the cock is big enough then u go to the bathhouse's orgy room (u are asking this to men at the bathhouse,right?) and then u do butt stuff 2gether
>>24721811Huh?
>>24722266He is saying that you are right were you belong.
>>24720567Never understood the point of circumcision. Despite having it done to me, have they ever made women live as men in Africa if they cut their flaps the wrong way? It just seems like an anti-male crusade in a seriousness.
>>24722277I agree circumcision is retarded and wrong and should be banned but at least in the case of this book it was done because the kid had phimosis.
>>24722288Blame Protestant boomer moms for its propagation.
>>24720567This will be a decent enough place for about 2 years, but I would suggest leaving it afterwards. Charts made by the old gods of /lit/ are actually full of good recommendations, and checking the wiki is always helpful. But the old gods have abandoned this place and no one reads here.For the rest, I would suggest checking if any bookshop nearby does book clubs, and I would join. Talking to real people about books, even shitty ones, will be significantly better than 99% of the discussion you can have in here.
>>24722292>But the old gods have abandoned this place and no one reads here.Some of us are still here but we mostly go unnoticed. >This is the kind of sunset you hardly see any more, a 19thcentury wilderness sunset, a few of which got set down, approximated, on canvas, landscapes of the American West by artists nobody ever heard of, when the land was still free and the eye innocent, and the presence of the Creator much more direct.
Is this the guy who infamously killed himself cuz he was raised as a boy cuz his peepee got fucked in a surgery when young, that trans people use as evidence of gender dysphoria through a cis lens?
>>24722355Yes. The book cracked my egg actually.
>>24722362You finally realised you were cis?
>>24722362>The book cracked my egg actually.Interesting. If you mind me asking how? I have a curiosity for these sort of things for reasons I shant elaborate on, but make my heart sink. I promise you, its not for the generic reasons you're thinking
>>24722366Well i used to think my desire to transition was from some stupid reason, like porn addiction or depression or some other shit, and that i probably shouldn't act on it. But then after reading the book i thought that they put this kid through so much shit, they did everything they could to make him a girl and he still wasn't comfortable being a girl. So i don't think some stupid enviromental or developmental reason could've possibly made me wanna transition, and the urge is probably never gonna go away, and it's probably mostly biological and i should probably just transition. So basically it made me stop doubting the validity of my desires i guess.
>>24722383That's good. Lots of us who work in psychological areas learn that most of our desires are conflicting. You seem to have learnt this also. So it is great that you've learnt desires you can't turn away from after challenging them over and over again are real and have to be dealt with one way or another.
>>24722386Thank you! That reassures me as well.
>>24722383hmm i see. sounds like you already knew the answer and just needed a push, there are a range of individuals who may cross with ssid "desires" the person in the book is one person, likely barely reflective of any sort of even typical trans person. its one thing to hate ones penis, its another thing likely to be raised as a girl and have destroyed penis you cant even tell the genitalia of.i dont really doubt the validity of your experience, its just that there are obviously people who "transition" for enviromental factors, even if the loads of transmen who seemingly hate being a woman more than they actually want to be a man, are not evidence, or the fact that we know a different documented case of a teenager who thought they had dysphoria because their psychologist was a bit too accepting and just mixed general depressive feelings with being a woman, with dysphoria.Even despite all that. A simple awareness of human psychology, and the fact that phenomenon like mass hysteria exists, tells us that enviroment means much more than it seems.Anyway. I'm done. That's all I had to contribute to this. I dont figure this book is too compelling unless one already knows what they want from it, whether theyre consciously aware or not.
>>24722383I get where you are coming from but I am not sure that transitioning will actually make you happy, but I really haven't a clue. How society views us and how we view ourselves is a mess and we can't actually untangle it. I was in my mid 30s the first time I bought male underwear (born male) and it gave me an erection, I have no idea what to think about that. A girl at the store approached me to ask if I needed any help and I seriously panicked, I can't even begin to explain what I went through in that moment. Years later I am sitting here wearing my gfs underwear and I still have no clue but I have realized that transitioning would mean that I could never put a bun in her oven and could never have a bun put in my oven, and that idea hurts. Sure I could have my sperm frozen and all that but something about that just feels like being blue balled.I don't mean to discourage you or suggest you are wrong, just saying to put a great deal of thought into it before you proceed. Sometimes I am glad I am old enough that transitioning was never a real option, but other times I am jealous. I don't think I ever would actually get my dick chopped off but I still consider hormones and boobs and someday I might do it even though I never will be able to pass as a women, but as the years go by I am realizing that being able to pass would never have made me happy, it is something else.
>>24722404Yeah that is fair, it's not like a perfect experiment, it is the case of only a single person. And of course enviroment matters a lot, i used to think it mattered a lot more than the biology but i'm not too sure anymore. But yeah personally it was still good enough to convince me. Like if you enviromentally do basically everything you can to raise a boy as a girl, and it completely fails, the biology probably matters more than the enviroment, and enviroment solely probably couldn't cause somebody to want to transition.
>>24722414>I was in my mid 30s the first time I bought male underwear (born male)Did your mummy buy you skid racks or did you just shite your pants?
>>24722383Did you want to transition since you were a baby though? David never acted like a girl even when he was little. If you started wanting to be a woman when you were a teen or your hobbies are malebrained it's probably environmental.
>>24722417I can't tell if you are retarded or just retarded.After I turned 18 and moved out of my parents house and had to provide for myself I only bought myself women's underwear. Majority of that time I still dressed as a man but I started regularly wearing women's underwear around 14. Even at 14 I never got an erection from going to a store and buying woman's underwear, it never seemed erotic or out of the ordinary even though I knew that most people would not understand, but I didn't understand and still don't.
>>24722433Stop hiding comparators necessary for your readers' understanding inside your head. This isn't fictive writing: write simple and in full.
>>24722414I've been thinking about it for years now, and i'm pretty sure i wanna do it at this point. I'm okay with getting rid of my dick, never being able to get somebody pregnant or whatever else. >>24722422I don't think any child actively thinks about transitioning. But like david i also never had friends growing up, i couldn't really get along with boys, never had any interest in most like masculine games that they would play. I liked spending time with my female cousins, that'a about all. So i wasn't like a giga feminine boy but i do relate to a lot of stuff david went through. Also for example I remember like wanting to buy this makeup set or whatever that i saw when i was really little, but they wouldn't let me of course. And another thing is i HATED looking at myself, taking pictures or whatever. Like i wouldn't even let my parents take a picture of me on my birthdays. Sometimes they would force me of course but whatever. Anyway after i tried crossdressing for the first time ever i loved looking at myself and taking pictures and everything. For the first time i loved myself. Idk like there is no way i shouldn't troon out. It has to be a good idea.
>>24722435?>>24722437>I'm okay with getting rid of my dick, never being able to get somebody pregnant or whatever else.I never wanted kids and still don't, but I had a gf who really wanted kids and it made me realize what I would lose, the ability to give her everything she wanted. That relationship ultimately failed because I did not share her single minded drive to have kids but thinking about the idea of her telling me that she wanted kids and my having to say, sorry, no dick, is a painful thing for me. But then again, through it all I have always liked the ladies, you might prefer dick and have never had an interest in the ladies.
>>24722433 What draws you to women's underwear, is it the way it fits? Is it the fact that it's what women wear? For real women most panties are just a thing used to catch discharge and menstrual blood, there's nothing special about them. Most bras are just a thing used to stop boobs from jiggling and hide nipples so you are less likely to get sexually harassed. Cute fancy underwear is used to fantasize about making Chad horny/having power over men.
>>24722448I have no idea and I have put a fair amount of time into trying to answer that question. For panties I can say that they offer a certain support that is lacking in all mens underwear. When it comes to the rest, I have no clue, wearing a bra feels comfortable to me and has for as long as I can remember, I love winter partly because winter coat means I can wear a bra without anyone knowing and not have to deal with retarded bullshit. There was a time I thought it was about having a secret, people not knowing that I wore women's underwear, but then I stopped hiding it and nothing changed, still enjoy it. Have you ever put on a bra for no reason other than to wear a bra? Try it sometime, wear a bra for the night and sleep in it, see what happens. Maybe masturbate just to see how that feels.
>>24722457I'm a woman and I hate bras with a passion. I can't wrap my mind around why someone would actively seek them out if they didn't have to. I guess bra shopping is probably less trouble when you have a flat chest.
>>24722463>I guess bra shopping is probably less trouble when you have a flat chest.It is far worse when you have a flat chest, even an A cup sort of tents over and feels wrong, took some doing to find bras that actually work for a man chest and are not about promoting the ersatz idea that I have breasts. But even then, I definitely have a preference for the bras of my gf even if they don't fit as well but also her bras will never replace those ones which fit.If you hate bras why not just wear bralettes or the like?
weird thread that makes me feel bad for trans people, but realistically that most likely because i am subconsciously projecting my own experience onto these people.i genuinely feel bad for the 30 year old person wearing womens panties some obvious conflicting feelings there, and transition regret is sad at that age, but atleast they seem to have come to terms with some things.As for the other person. Seems more like the generic trans person. Which is what makes me feel like im projecting a bad feeling, as when it comes to generic trans people who already give the impression of basically looking for everything and anything to confirm what they already want to believe at this point of being trans, it triggers me.Because I dont understand how and why anybody would ever want to be trans or proud to be trans unless theyre literally like 18-19 or under, and still searching for an identity.Yeah, I know the "I tried to reject it but it didnt work!" yeah thats not really the problem.Theres this sense with all this gender stuff, that at a certain point, you could circularly be validating something that was never there but "makes sense" and it becomes an insidious loop, of the deeper you get into it, the more sense it makes by virtue of engaging with it.I've thought about this with sexuality.Before 18 I both had sex with a women and a man. I was curious about my sexuality. (it didnt literally occur as an experiment, i just did it with both down the line)I didnt actually like the experience with either of them, but ignoring some aspects about the sex with the dude that could be argued as statutory rape. I didnt "feel" anything with the man.At a certain point when youve touched enough women, you realize that a boob is really just a piece of fat skin, and lips are really just...lips. But despite that all, theres a feeling that "this feels good and I want to keep doing it, even though it just feels like im pressing skin against skin"with the dude, i was thinking about how disgusting beards are, and sucking dick felt like work. It doesnt help that buttsex hurts more than straight sex.I didnt like the straight sex either, but i still "felt" something if that makes sense.There are some details I could give about experiences with someone else when I was much younger that could contradict this, but the point is.Its so much clearer, the experience of sexuality, even when you dont like sex.With gender, the feeling has to be more constant and persistent, youre not just performing an act, youre trying to live as "somebody" and that can be fleeting, arbitrary, and sometimes all you think about, and what you never think about.Ignore all this, im thinking outloud and am now annoyed my thoughts dont feel like they make sense
You can talk with people at your local Catholic church.Deus Vult!
>>24722471>took some doing to find bras that actually work for a man chestQuick. Someone post George from Seinfeld! This is "the BRO", not "a BRA". Its a male underwire support garment.
>>24722446In 5 years they will be able to create human eggs and sperm from a simple skin cell. It already works for animals.
>>24722291Jews flooded into America in the 1880s from Eastern Europe. They started the circumcision campaign to blend in and mark their new slaves. There’s a reason the 1890 census was lost in a fire, to cover up how many arrived in America.
>>24720567Curious what percentage of the trannies in this thread were raped/molested as kids?
>>24723152You should really be asking what percentage of trannies suffer from crippling porn addiction. As someone who has been afflicted with trans delusions for years (yet have never trooned out b/c deep down I know it is a fetish), it came from porn addiction.
>>2472310330 yr old man who would love to wear women’s panties here. I remember the first time I did that, I was like 11 or 12 in age and I put my sisters thong on it felt good and my hard dick was sticking out the side. I’m mostly masc other than that but the idea of putting on lingerie is hot to me. I just think some things are cool n enjoyable from both masc and fem sides I wouldn’t ever get surgery. Even my first experience with the lustful female form was seeing mag catalogues of women in lingerie. I wonder if that has something to do with it, no doubt from then I loved women.
>>24723152>>24723160i was never raped or molested but i do have a crippling porn addiction.
>>24723164Yeah see, this is part of why I think gender is much less...grounded than sexuality.But I guess for some context. When I was younger, like pre puberty, the reason why I say pre puberty, is because I distinctly remember a time between primary school and right before highschool where sex was a foreign concept to me.So Id "steal" breast forms from my moms old dresses that were already falling apart, and put on bras sometimes. Id even "tuck" between the legs, and "roll up my boxers" to sort of mimick panties. When I look back, it all sounds unbelievably weird and perverted, I even remember "getting a boner". But heres the thing. I was so young, like 8 to 11 that I didnt even know what sex was. I didnt really know what dicks were beyond something you pee with and barely looked at it.So was that experience sexual if my body reacted "sexually", but my intentionality and feeling was divorced even from the concept of "sex"?Now, older, I cant even stand to wear panties, or girl clothes, or bras. It makes me feel uncomfortable and only makes me feel more masculine. I dont look at my past experiences as something validating, I look at them as something that unfortunately ties me to the idea that I have to deal with this at all, that I have to be "trans" at all. That I have to be like this at all.When I was younger the concept of transgender didnt exist, not only because I was very young, but also because contrary to how much trans people say trans has always existed, back then, it was really mostly just "crossdressing" and such. I am under 25 years old, but over 20 years old btw. So its not like im that old I guess.When I think back to my childhood I was not a particularly feminine. I had adhd, I was a problem child, very roidy, high metabolism, naturally athletically inclined. I played lots of sports, did lots of dumb typical young boy shit, but probably slightly more extreme because I jumped around everywhere.Basically I have zero reason to be a woman other than the fact that from a very young age id play pretend and pretend to be a girl, id even put on a girl voice and everything, i even gave myself a girl name, I would constantly daydream of different scenarios where I turned into a girl and whenever i did everybody thought I already was one."Woman" especially in the modern day is so inextricably linked to social roles, mannerisms, predisposed behaviours, values, etc.Even some of the most "masc" women expose some ironic facet of femininity, like in how staunchly feminist they are, or if you get the conservative tomboy, itll be how much they still desire a traditional man or whatever.Sometimes I think and wonder if gender is even real.But nothing works for me, not non binary, not being a femboy, not being a man (physically) or woman (mentally).I make no sense, and from my experience of myself I extrapolate that gender cannot make sense. There is something else, there, hidden, that is called "gender".
>>24723152Never raped or molested either. >>24723160Never had a porn addiction or much interest in porn. When I was young it had an allure but that allure was mostly lost once I started dating.
>>24723152Also never raped or molested. I did grow up without a father though, but there are tons of trans people with fathers
Did anybody even actually read this book or is it bait thread?
>>24723160>>24723152There are a lot of causes for gender disphoria. I also had it for about some months or half a year.I had porn addiction but the reason was because I assumed was that I was surrounded by feminine things. Like the franchise I liked was all female cast and I had pinterest, seeing all those pretty faces made me want have one myself and even planned some weird crap to become a woman without a gender surgery at all. I grew out of that shit, but yes, porn addiction has a lot to do with it.
>>24724455I didn't read the book but I heard about it two times in two different videos that explained it pretty well.The kid was not accepted into female or male groups for being too much of the other. He grew as an outcast and that caused him depression. Later they told him that he was male and what happened to his penis and he felt relief but thanks to other events he killed himself. It makes you realize why transgenderism or gender ideology is deranged. >>24723933
>>24723933Sorry for not replying in the post I did just seconds ago but I wanted to say that when you grow up without a male figure you identify more with your mother. My mother is single and even thought I actually know my father and continue to interact with him. He was absent most of my life, and I grew to be a bit more effeminate, like I like long hair and feminine features, as well as flowers and certain fashions. The unique reason I am not crossdressing is because I think I am too ugly for that and I always hated how crossdressers look. Besides, I would say that all of this comes from the porn addiction, when I spent time without being a porn addict for some months I became pretty normal. I still liked flowers thought.
>>24724475>but thanks to other eventsWhat were they?
>>24723171Maybe you should try dealing with the porn addiction before cut your dick off and grow tits.
>>24724492Nta but his twin brother died, his wife was divorcing him, and i think there were financial problems?
>>24724477>but I wanted to say that when you grow up without a male figure you identify more with your mother.Eh maybe. I distinctly remember growing up and it basically being told that I am neither like my mother or father. I was a rambunctious kid. Besides, like I said there are tons of trans people with presenr fathers. If there's anything that could have made me this way. Its the fact that Me and my Sister would act like sisters in secret (like play time i guess) instead of brother and sister, but that doesnt really explain where the desire came from.As for porn, I think its complicated and it depends, the first "porn" I watched I didnt even know it was porn, I was just looking for gender bender anime. But yeah porn muddies the waters, constant influx of reinforced desire, which can easily be fabricated simply by it being the style porn is presented in (think of step mom stuff, most people probably (probably) arent incestuous, but because of porn they might develop some sort of delusional conflicting thoughts about it, since its associates with something they like (pornstar or whatever) and because of how stupid sexual desire is, it hijacks the brain and amplifies ones attraction to something
>>24724496Sounds like he didnt actually kill himself because of the gender problems like both sides seem to use for their narratives.I don't figure it helped of course, but yea
>>24723282It kinda sounds like either the tucking or the tightness of the panties stimulated your wiener, and having that happen at a young age created a positive association with dressing like a woman. Back when I was that young, there was a flagpole at my playground that I loved to climb because it felt good. Looking back, it was because I was basically humping the thing on the way up. Ever since then, I've really enjoyed climbing.
>>24724517>and having that happen at a young age created a positive association with dressing like a woman.Maybe, but it doesnt explain why I wanted to wear breast forms in general. Before that Id stuff my shirt with another shirt to simulate breasts, and before even that, when much younger, guessing 6 to 8. Id pull the bottom of my shirt into the top of my shirt, and if you know what that creates then you know.From my current perspective it looks perverted, but I dont even think I knew what boobs were at that age, it was just something I did intuitively to mimic a female chest for some odd reason.Also your theory, while actually fairly reasonable I think, doesnt explain the negative association as an adult.
>>24724502>arent incestuous, but because of porn they might develop some sort of delusional conflicting thoughts about it, since its associates with something they like (pornstar or whatever) and because of how stupid sexual desire is, it hijacks the brain and amplifies ones attraction to somethingI feel so ashamed for saying this but I reached an effect of porn addiction that I was not sure existed. I used to fap a specific character from a franchise I liked and at some point it was more turned by imagining her getting fucked by other men than by my own self insertion. However, it was not in the context of cuckholding but in the context of her telling me her past experiences as erotic narrative. I am really afraid of it but porn makes you create weird fetishes or tastes. My two narutal fetishes and only ones are aquaphilia (sex in showers, near pools, etc) and trying up or being tied up (bondage) but thanks to porn I even started developing weird kinks. I have to get out of that shit asap.
>>24724574Yeah itll sound silly, but I had weird gay fantasies with my girlfriends friend in highschool. Idk I think when youre young and always really horny, you constantly look for new ways to stimulate yourself. The fantasies didnt last wrong because they required way more effort than was worth, but yeahhh. Itll sound like cope but im not gay...trust me ive tried.
going to bed
When are we getting a big trans intellectual or philosopher
>>24725439In a few decades when i grow up, if i don't end up killing myself.
>>24725578how old are you?
>>2472560619...
>>24725637lol oh brother
