>Buddhism doesn't believe in Go-
>>24721451>Quoting a fascist mountain aristocrats regarding Buddhism.Nice one punchy, as if there's a vagina in the seat of my motorcycle.
>>24721451Westerners can't comprehend their own religions, let alone Buddhism.
>>24721507True but it seems not even buddhists understand their own religion, and this lack of understanding may be part of the dark ages of buddhism foretold in some of their eschatological sayings. There are schools who hold complete opposite views (rangtong vs shentong), there is the claim zen is not buddhism etcThere are some who maintain that the buddhist brahma-faring is, as the term implies, "return to the Self" (as Ananda Coomaraswamy translates a verse of the dhammapada). How many buddhists would be scandalized by this? And how many westerners larpers would be eager to scream "no, buddhism is atheistic"?But I'm certain buddhism can't be atheistic and that nowadays not even buddhists themselves understand their own religion
>>24721472What is wrong with said mountain aristocrats?
>>24721451I'm not seeing the contradiction between your quote and your picrel.
>>24721562There is no core self in buddhism (including buddhism). Anyway, why don't you, a dumb 4channer, go to Sri Lanka and tell the theravadin monks that their idea of buddhism is wrong, or the Zen, or the Tibetans?
>>24721582I regularly tell Zen practitioners that they are wrong. They pay me to hit them with sticks.
>>24721581I think it's just a theist running their usual psy-op where they insist than anyone who believes in anything that might be described in even the vaguest sense as spiritual or transcendent or metaphysical should be on their side by definition.
>>24721582They all already tell each other that anyway
>>24721451>The seed of buddha means consciousnessTibetan Buddhism isn't real buddhism. the dalai lama should kill himself
>>24721581the unconditioned ground of being is definitionally God in every major theistic tradition
>>24721613God might be identified as the unconditioned ground of being by the typical theist, but I don't think that implies that believing in an unconditioned ground of being requires believing that God is that unconditioned ground of being. Similar to how all men might be mortal, but not all mortals are men.
>>24721613Buddha is pretty clearly conditioned.Buddhism isn't reacting to pre-oral terrors of the real. Buddhism is reacting to post-adult abjection and men's resentment of women's ultimate castration in childbirth as abject hemi-human screamers.
>>24721642>Buddha is pretty clearly conditioned.depends on the school. in suttas/agamas nirvana is stated to be unconditioned (although maybe you could argue "buddha" is conditioned). although in later mahayana schools, all beings are clearly both conditioned and unconditioned.
>>24721611This, it was born out of a revisionist sect that likely traces its roots back to the first schism with the monastics that were kicked out of the Buddhist council for teaching wildly stupid shit. Every other flavor of Buddhism pretty much left India before the formation of Nalanda, which was the breeding ground for what was eventually Tibetan Buddhism.While most of the Buddhists that stayed in India were hostile revisionists, I still enjoy Madhyamaka philosophy greatly, even if it would really be difficult to classify as Buddhism in a purely historical sense.
>>24721649>nirvana is stated to be unconditioned (although maybe you could argue "buddha" is conditioned)This would be my argument in language.The argument outside of language would involve being hit and then raped by a baseball bat.
>>24721571Apart from his multi incarnation deal with a lake demon?
>>24721705You get to fuck a lake demon, and all you choose is eternal suffering?
>>24721611>>24721700>Genetic fallacyKill yourself.
>>24721732Wrong, I didn't argue Tibetan Buddhism is bad because of its origins, I'm arguing its not Buddhism because it is completely non-continuous with every early school of Buddhism, even with there being like 4 of them, focusing on Nalanda as the breeding ground for divergence.That isn't a genetic fallacy lil bro
>>24721756I'm amused by your contradiction, but you have to face up to the fact that you're a cunt.
>>24721784I am certainly a cunt, but there was no contradiction lil guy.
>>24721790Universal momentary genesis just makes your argument rather than a genetic fallacy a fallacy by false category.
>>24721812Wrong again, my little friend.I didn't make a metaphysical claim, nor did I deny dependent origination, I simply questioned doctrinal continuity and lineage.Fallacy by false category isn't a thing. This is entire your rhetorical invention.Buddhist traditions themselves rely on historical categorization.If you're arguing against any of the above as a fallacy, in your own made up terms, you're also indicting all of Buddhist tradition lmao.
>>24721451How does Buddhism explain what created everything? You know how like Christianity says God created everything
>>24721825Buddhism rejects absolute nothingness and posits an infinite chain of causality.
>>24721825Buddhists believe in dependent arising, all phenomena arise in dependence on something else and they kind of leave it at that. They don't put any stock into a creator, or anything of the like. They are very comfortable with the idea of infinite causality and zero starting point or first cause.Samsara basically, even on a universal infinite scale.
>>24721820>you're also indicting all of Buddhist tradition lmao.All buddhist tradition is larp —cha'an.
>>24721836>All buddhist tradition is larp —cha'anIf Chan is your escape hatch from tradition, you might want to check how many centuries of lineage, commentary, and institutional structure it carries. You didn't escape the larp, or you shitting all over yourself with your attempted argument.
>>24721451Dalai Lama? What does he know about Buddhism? His religion believes in tantric sex, theocracy, shamanism, even slavery. He is the Buddhist world's counterpart to the Antichrist.
>>24721842>He's shitting over himself by attempting to deny a meaningless construct using a meaningless constructSo you do know about cha'an?Why are you clinging to the language games about you shitting all over big orange mountain man for being a rapist fuckstick? The cunt dismantles watches for fun and can't put them together again and doesn't get hit with a stick for that.
>>24721451Buddhism does not concern itself with God, besides the point, Christianity and Buddhism are not at odds and the east has a good number of Christian Buddhist. It would not surprise me if when it comes down to Asian immigrants in the west if Christian Buddhists were more common than straight Buddhists.
>>24721850>if when it comes down to Asian immigrantsnot sure what happened there but I am sure anons will use it as proof of something.
>>24721846Are you having a stroke?Of course I know Chan, I grew up in a Mahayana house hold, even though I was criticizing Tibetan Buddhism. The Dalai Lama is absolutely a larper fuckstick. All of Tibetan Buddhist is basically a massive power game / political tool. The Gelug school for example was philosophically destroyed by one guy, Gorampa, which cost them immense traction in Tibetan society, so they lashed out with Mongolian mercenaries and brutal wars and did successfully subjugate every other school for a decent period of time. Not to mention the slaves they kept. That other anon is right, the Dalai Lama is the Buddhist equivalent of the antichrist.You're also the one that initiated the language games. You just got owned for trying to play them.>>24721850My family is Viet and I know a good amount of "christian buddhists" most of them are visiting churches and whatnot to blend in, its a big thing in Asian culture, not standing out in whatever community you're a part of. Christianity and Buddhism are 100% metaphysically at extreme odds however.
>>24721855What do you think of Thich Nhat Hanh, fren?
>>24721893Hes...interesting. A lot of his teachings in English to Western audiences are actually radically different to his teachings in Vietnamese when he was lecturing Buddhists.Sometimes he would intentionally use language that Christians would be familiar with in order to not alienate them, I've seen him do that a lot with his English work. But at the same time, a lot of it is very watered down.I don't doubt his attainments though, he just tailored his teachings to his audience for the most part. I think unfortunately it just spawned a lot of "pop mcmindfulness" Buddhism.
>>24721899What about the rice cooker monk?
yes, god and buddhanature are one and the same, what of it
>>24721732>Jeet things goodHere's how Vajrayana started:1) University of Nalanda transforming Buddhist Mahayana doctrines into a quasi-Shaivite tantric mode to make itself more marketable to rulers upon whose donations and support said university depended; and the Jeet rulers at that time preferred bellicose and violent tantra that promised godhood and universal powers rather than Buddhist enlightenment because they wanted to LARP as the universal ruler in the centre of a mandala that has all the powers to subjugate his enemies.2) Marginal Shaivite groups - think proto-Aghoris - that lived nearby Nalanda but outside its jurisdiction, probably in cremation grounds, and gradually influenced curious students of Buddhism. Imagine a PCP nigger ghetto outside Harvard that somehow attracted high class students. That's the Nalanda and the tantric milieu situation.If you know your Hindu tantra, you'll see parallels in the Buddhist tantra, and you'll see that the confusing issues in Vajrayana stem from adoption of an alien ideology and grafting it on Buddhist philosophy.Source: Indian Esoteric Buddhism: A Social HistoryAnd other anon is correct. Other Buddhist schools treated Tantra with contempt since it broke fundamental Buddhist beliefs and vows. Outside of Tibet, Jeeted Buddhism, especially of the antinomian variety, didn't take deep roots. The Tantric Buddhism of China and Japan is closer to Mahayana than to the skull and bones and sperm and pussy blood that infiltrated Tibet.The Tibetan conundrum is the result of adopting this Jeeted Buddhism and turning into a political and ideological entity after the downfall of the first empire (which may have fallen due to the first grafting of Jeeted Buddhism via Padmasambhava). Power became synonymous with teachings: the more exclusive, hidden tantric teachings you could bring from India, the more power and prestige you had. With time, a single owner formed a whole community around himself that gradually acquired economic and politic power within certain valleys and beyond. These communities circled around the initiated and deified ruler commanding from the centre his whole mandala like kingdom. Dalai Lama is the most public form of the above pattern, rooted in Jeet texts and Rajput politics from about 700 - 1000 AD.Source: Tibetan RenaissanceMy favourite part is when rich Tibetans traveled to the Nepal Valley and local Buddhist pandits created tantric scriptures with deep pedigree out of thin air to get money. And now you have, after about 700 to 800 years, a tradition that thinks it's based on the hidden teachings of Buddha but which has its roots in a swindle of some opportunist scamming tantrika Jeet. And now it's a serious tradition with even some 4chan autists, bespectacled, stiletto bearded, ponytailed, in a manila suit with a red tie, occult minded and pedantic, berating others for not questioning and not doing the thing the traditional way. That's religion and occultism for you.
>>24721855Why would Buddhists in a Buddhist country, also be Christian as a means to fit in?
>>24722170What do you think made Robert Thurman and Richard Gere latch onto this version of Buddhism?
>>24721825>How does Buddhism explain what created everything? The Buddha himself did not weigh in on that question. Most of the stuff you think is "Buddhist" is actually just generic Indian beliefs of the time that the Buddha had no interest in himself. In fact, he often found them absurd. In one sutta, he says something to the effect of, "Okay, so these guys say this and that about this or that heaven and whatever. Did they see it with their own eyes? Then why would you believe them?"
>>24721451I don't see how this signifies belief in God. Mind you, most forms of Buddhism do believe in gods, just not in 'God' in the middle eastern or Platonic sense of the term.>>24721472Fascist, really? Of all the things you could call Tibetan Buddhism, Fascist? >>24721825It doesn't.
>>24722216There’s a sutta where he says he isn’t going to perform miracles simply because people will sooner or later make devices that can do the same, so the only real thing he can give is the dhamma. An interesting sutta, clearly the buddha anticipated that sufficiently advanced tech is indistinguishable from magic.
>>24721507Good morning!
>>24721855>You just got owned for trying to play them.>I really don't know what a genetic fallacy is.
>>24721451Hey ladies and germs. JC here. Got a big day to-morrow with the Nepal and Kirk thing not to mention that fungal crap in the adjoining e*i Aleph Null universes, and trying to just chill' here with my boy Milarepa and frankly, you're disturbing Our Zen.I mean, for a bunch of dweebs your deranged brainwaves are the biggest distraction since the Egyptian Gods started playing US Football with the Assyrians godlings and every night for a week with the 3-breasted cheerleader chants 'There is only ONE God, He is the SUN God--Ra! Ra! Ra!'So: Knock it off or I'll sick Shiva on you. OK. So you don't feel bad, remember Our motto: Jesus loves you, Mohammed hates you, Buddha is indifferent to you...BUT for a really good time call Krishna, 1-212-555-6969.Love ya. P.S. Though you, the 51st-Stater wanker in Alberta--Tits or GTFO. Plus leave that dove alone, pervert.
>>24721562>eschatological Completely off topic, but is there a reason the word eschatological sound so similar to scatological? or just a coincidence
>>24721451Tathagatagarbha is just the emptiness of the mind
>>24722368The father buddha said, with our thoughts we create the world.
>>24722170>Source: Indian Esoteric Buddhism: A Social HistoryDo you have any other good book recommendations? How about something covering the early period?
>>24722273I don't know if you're the original anon, but the one who claimed the criticism was a genetic fallacy was factually wrong and it takes two seconds to prove it.
whats your favorite stereotypical western buddhist book? mine is Tibetan Book of the Dead, I dont know exactly what it is but to have such an elaborate/detailed "road map" of the afterlife gets the better of my curiousity, if you really read into it the "Bardo" is a great philosophical excersize
>>24723787Words of My Perfect TeacherWritten by an incarnation of Patrul Rinpoche 150-200 years ago, where he details whats necessary for genuine practice, but also genuinely shits all over "modern" Tibetan Buddhist practitioners in Tibet at the time.Wonder what he would think now lmao. Even then he referred to most Gurus as degenerate businessmen who shouldn't be allowed to teach the dharma. I really like how hardcore Vajrayana practitioners can be with their speech and writings.
>>24723744I am that original poster and I am right. Pearl-clutching buddhists focus too much on what the Buddha said or meant, not how the meditations are relevant or useful to whatever means you require. Meditation is a means to an end. If meditations that begun in the buddhist tradition are useful towards that end, then that's fine. If practices that deviate from that tradition are still useful, that's also fine.I don't give a fuck about your "true Buddhism", slave moralist cuck.
>>24721472What is fascism?
>>24724118There's this concept of "wrathful compassion" whereby when a serious/legitimate practitioner seemingly appears to use harsh language, they are actually forcefully trying to get you to practice the true Dharma, with a sense of urgency.
>>24725061Most gurus are grifters, whether Buddhist, Hindu or anything else
>>24725243then what are we supposed to fucking do? man i cant fucking ride samsara like this anymore man the fucking elites of this world are about to do some mass kill offs or something they are planting the seeds for global conflicts i cant fucking fight in a global fucking war man, i fucking refuse it.
>>24725470Just focus on your breath meditation and/or the four Brahmavihara.
>>24722339Eschatos means last in greek. Skatos is dung. So no they aren't related.
>>24724525Anything you don't like, Anon. IIRC it just means 'bad' in some newer AAVE variant.
>>24721451That's not a god tho
>>24721613>unconditioned groundThere's no substantial "ground" in buddhism, since everything Is empty, only a quality that's interdependent with other qualities that are not "the ground", and both are extinguished in nibbana>definitionally God in every major theistic traditioNot really, in a Lot of traditions god Is a trascendent entity that exist outside His creation
>>24721825Nothing Is created, everything arises
hahahaha namu amida butsu ommmmmmmm
>>24721613That doesn't exist in buddhism, some traditions have an unconditioned ground of experience (rigpa) and it's empty(sunyata) so it can't be god
>>24721562>maintain that the buddhist brahma-faring is, as the term implies, "return to the Self" (as Ananda Coomaraswamy translates a verse of the dhammapada).Brahmacarya only means "Holy life" there's no relationship with the atta whatsoever, Coomaraswamy was a hindú with a clear perennialst agenda and Is an awful sources for buddhist studies
>>24721562>the dark ages of buddhismthat was during the Indian medieval period when Vajrayana was born
>>24721562>return to the Self"Impossible in a buddhist framework, since that Is a form of attavada, and Is considered one of the four forms of grasping that brings ignorance and thus suffering, read SN12.1
>>24721451Total newbie here.If I wanted ONE core text on Buddhism to put in a 'Great Books' list, what would it be? Thanks.
>>24726929Dhammapada
>>24726929Doctrine of Awakening by Evola
>>24726929>If I wanted ONE core text on Buddhism to put in a 'Great Books' list, what would it be? Thanks.MONKEY MAGIC!!!!! UK ENGLISH DUB!!!!!Or do you mean written only text, not television detourned texts? If it is a written text then Journey to the West. Yes all of it. Bash Daoists. Put. your. heel. through. daoist. face.
>>24721613 there is no ultimate “ground of being” in all schools of buddhism
>>24726929sutta nipata
>>24727258Edward Conze on Evola
>>24727332Metaphysicslly this is an impossibility
>>24727338metaphysics is crypto materialism
